Preaching to Black Millennials

good morning my name is Watson Jones 2/3 and I am a pastor in chicago illinois compassion baptist church and I am a third year student PhD in african-american preaching and sacred rhetoric so I'm really excited about our discussion on preaching to black Millennials at this time I would like to call our panelists up all right before we dive into our questions I want to give a moment for you all to tell us who you are and where you're from and and what you do Charles Goodman past the Tabernacle Baptist Church in Augusta Georgia Jackie Hill peri writer speaker author and mother of two wife of one and I live in Atlanta Breanna Parker I'm from Dallas Texas I am the founding curator of the black millennial Cafe which is a research and consulting firm Michael McClure our pastor in Birmingham Alabama Rock City Church father of five pray for me many prayers many prayers one of the first things I want to ask just you know you all are up here to speak from your experience and some of your researching this and studying it tell me what preaching looks like in your context for my context I'm a back story to give you context about my context 2009 at 25 we just started God laid on my heart to plan a ministry in Birmingham Alabama and within eleven to twelve months thousands of people started showing up so how do you pastor or priest to a generation when you don't know who you are as an individual so for the last nine years I've been forming and shaping what preaching and my context looks like I'm a third-generation pastor and I'm an apologist for the traditional church I mean that at the same time as an apologist I've had a front-row seat of seeing what needs to shift so in my context one of the things I had to shift to is realizing that the previous generation spent a lot of time preaching about the blood but never showing their scars and this generation Millennials just don't want to hear your word they want to see your testimony and as a consequence because we spent so much time preaching about the blood we develop vampire Christians people who really don't want his principles they only want his blood so with our generation what we're trying to do now is it's very Jesus was an illustrative theologian so we preach we try to be sounding our doctrine but also how do we bring the scripture to life that if I'm preaching about the woman with the issue of blood a couple months ago literally in the middle of my sermon having a lady get out the crowd with paint all over her and teaching about what she went through home this past Tuesday allowing one of our female ministers to preach from a woman is hermeneutic because soft and that voice is lost in the church also just trying to be relative relatable but also sound yeah good job Mike appreciate it take some of the things that he's a strep elite I do think that preaching is ever-evolving and for me in my context to borrow that that adage that preaching is true through personality and so part of it is really I think as my church continues to morph and grow for me is always trying to be true to myself so preaching continues to develop I'm still searching for my authentic voice because I grew up in a kind of a mud spiritually a group United Holy Church licensed on the day Baptist Church I have now I think is kind of Baptists costume in this particular presentation we have five services on Sunday and each one is so different and it forces me to kind of have to kind of be on the spot in each moment so so I think for me if I were to try to answer it I do think if its authenticity is trying to figure out how can I communicate this truth and not be so married to a style that I miss getting the point across and that's the challenge because sometimes I'll be honest I think a lot of my sermons will be better if I could get me out the way so my former context for 10 years I served mega church in Dallas Texas and that was different because it was more than 50 percent was 40 in under and so you know you use fine arts you use you know you try to be as creative as possible but now that I no longer a server church full-time and I had the black millennial Cafe preaching in my context looks like millennial Monday that might be a two minute video that talks about Jesus Gucci Mane and Keyshia kaor and kind of looking at the principles of you know what you do with what you have from when Gucci Mane left and went to prison gives Keyshia kr some money she come he comes out and she's kind of flipped it and made it more and to then go look at what you know the parable Jesus uses you know what are you gonna do with what I give and he comes back to see what they've done with this so now it looks like millennial Mondays or millennial life Institute that I have which allows Millennials to learn things like financial literacy and what it means to really brand yourself in a way that is healthy but will get you where you need to go and so now a book so I think now preaching looks very different from me and because it's what I do full-time I'm always having to create a new way to tell a whole story and so I do it by any means necessary or whether that's video whether that's post whether that's means whatever it happens to be so my context is now all of the world sounds like the Bible answer feels complicated for me only because I think I began with doing poetry specifically to black Millennials and using the gift of poetry to kind of walk in my teaching gift but then that kind of became me more preaching to white evangelicals but the snippets of me preaching is actually being retweeted and listened to and watched by black political and so as it's a it's an awkward kind of space to be in but I think ultimately I feel like with speaking in conferences it's me having to continually go into different contexts all the time and learn how what this city believes and how it's impacting this culture and how this church in particular what they're believing or struggling with and dealing with and so I'm always having to learn the space I'm in so that I know whatever message I'm communicating it's actually useful for them in particular but yeah and then social media you know that's kind of church for a lot of people shouldn't be but it is what it is so too if you reference something about being staunchly defending of the traditional black church and black style of preaching it there's some discussion among black preachers especially Millennials about the relevance of traditional black preaching among Millennials and what I mean by traditional black preaching is more some of the rhetorical dynamics and preaching such as cadence use of beautiful language storytelling and then of course the war many of us familiar with celebration and so I kind of want to all of you all starts on whether or not the forms of traditional black preaching is relevant for Millennials today great question I will admit to you I think part of my challenge in this conversation is I do feel like we've treated Millennials as some animals in a cage that we're looking at like what are their habits you know do they like this food or not so this is an uncomfortable conversation because I want to submit to you that I think that Millennials are so no one's like any other generation you have divorced Millennials married Millennials college-educated Millennials some not so I think part of that challenge in that is trying to figure out that and to answer that question from a black traditional preaching I think at the end of the day if you're communicating truth in your truth then we'll always be received I've seen some traditional pastors attract Millennials with their style that may be considered old school very kind of slow cadence more observation investigation applied and it perhaps can just celebrate you and run you under a Pew but then I've also heard seen others who have more of a teaching style and have now replaced the pulpit with a table and I've seen people be attracted to that I think it's so nuanced because everyone hears it differently and so I do think at the end of the day you have to kind of be yourself and if that is who you are and that's how you communicate the truth there will always be ears that hear so so I think any style works you know I mean now each one can be more palatable you could say what we prefer but I think there's so nuanced so I do think there's there's such great space in preaching for every style of preaching to be heard by all people and so I'd love to hear it you know I mean so I think you can get it from also I do think at the end of the day for me I do think is relevant for those that need to hear it that way and that's the best way I can probably try answer that question so I think one of the difficulties even for me as an individual and for some of my friends and people and that are just black is that those of us who have come out of a context of black preaching and then introduced to you know reformed theology and how do I say white people who don't know any other way to say white people who are saying that that like what we came from is off and wrong and unbiblical I think for a really long time I assumed that the style itself was unbiblical to the point that I wrote a whole poem about it a poem that I am so sad that I wrote but I just didn't know you know I'm a 20 year old learning about justification in its home and in propitiation all these things I'm thinking oh to be sound I have to sound a particular kind of way and so I think now it's me feeling like I need to do the work of showing black Millennials that it's not about style is not an unbiblical or biblical thing it's the content so I think we are thirsty for it if anything I think we're thirsty for people who actually are going to preach the text in an exciting way who are actually gonna give what's the word inflections you know like why are we talking about lamentations and you you sound sad like you don't even sound like you don't even believe that you got hope and so yeah and so yeah I think that has to be dealt with I think that's a part of it is we have to like kill this lie that the way somebody preaches is an actually unbiblical thing rather than what somebody's preaching I think I think one of the things we have to address too is when we see I like how dr. Goodman said it Millennials are so nuanced so one thing we have to understand too is because of the struggles of the parents so never forget when the father is hungry to chill - children to starve and because parents failed in so many areas of life a lot of young successful or professional black Millennials are attracted to anglo-saxon ministries because it means something status was so what I'm seeing take place now is a lot of young Millennials are there go sit in that church because you know what I actually got yesterday I said well so what are you getting there he said well you know it's great connecting and we're not in church long and you know it don't take all that when in reality they saw mama shout but go home broke you got me so what they're doing is they're miss diagnosing their pain so what happens then is my mama my mother's bills were behind she praise your style of church not necessarily God because whenever you go through things you misdiagnosed the problem just like now I'm passionately got a lot of young men who didn't have fathers and I'm noticing that the first time I don't respond to attacks on the surfer I don't show up to training camp you failed me just like my daddy so since daddy was missing i'ma blame who's in his place and I think what has to happen now is I'm gonna apologize for the old church like with all the services we have on the weekend I still closed you know I closed at the early morning service at the same time like she said I believe we just have to present the message in a way that each demographic likes it and be comfortable not being accepted in certain circles you give them saying understanding that I can't save the entire race of black Millennials but the style I have there's a written there's a reason McDonald's at every McDonald's across the street as a Burger King because they understand what the culture needs so one of the things I'm trying to do now is be all things to all the people dr. Goodman said something downstairs that was powerful he said the manifestation of the church can be found in acts 2 when they begin to speak in unknown languages we know that those weren't heavily language but people who were from other places were understanding and I think that break down and we're having in church right now when preaching to Millennials specifically is that we no longer speak their language or we have an old guard who never trained a young successor so he's trying to reinvent himself in his corny so so now he's 65 years old saying drop it like it's hot and it's like I don't fit you burn it just it just doesn't hit the same way at the same time at the it just doesn't so one thing we have to understand is what I'm trying to do in my context is on again I wasn't fortunate enough to go to matriculate through seminary they got me a lot of the things I have is God giving it but I read a lot you know I was blessed enough to spend some time at Ashland Theological Seminary and Yale Divinity in the program so I'm going to get what I'm lacking is that making this sense I hired an executive pastor who was working on his demon and his PhD because my my sister has a Masters of Divinity I helped put it through college because I was sensitive to realize at a certain point slap your neighbor gonna get old so since I necessarily don't have the time to go get it I'm gonna surround myself with people who can hold my preaching style accountable does that make any sense so I love preaching I think it matters that's why the music now is indicative of the preacher we don't know what they're saying get it together dude good yeah yeah I like I don't sound it that was kind of good I like that we just need some trapeze we don't know what they're saying but when life get hard all of us no biggie cuz he was a storyteller all of us know pops but he was cuz he was a poet so I think your style matters but I think as long as there's some substance before the celebration you'll be honest but there's a sound and I know Briana guy but man there's a sound of our people there's a sound that we resonate with this goes back to our homeland there's a sound that we just we need got to hear it all but there's a sound that we have and one of the challenges and that's why I think the question you kind of raised is man there's something to be said about preserving that sound in the church in the black church that sound is powerful is it something that gets you through I can't explain it as a kid I didn't know exactly what my pastor was saying but man I felt something was something that I felt that I could not articulate that still is powerful and and no matter how you celebrate we have some of the world's greatest preachers who don't can't carry a tune the notes here and they may be here but it's something about the sound and so I think black preaching has to say on that that I think there's going to be a coming back to it because I think that that it really just helped there's a sound that I can connect to that even when I can't get everything together and I can't remember what Scripture was but there's a sound right so I just think there's something unique in that and I think that's something that's powerful that needs to be preserved within the black church and I do think those like you said earlier we're tall man that's bad that's what they told us even on the plantation that that's that's that's antiquated that's that's Savage no that's who we are as people we are rhythmic we are there's something about our lives we walk different we talk different there's a style and thing and stuff that we have so so as far as black preaching that was birthed from who we are the celebration the cadence the flow right telling the story there was something that's unique and and I think that yeah you can stand up there and die dad can put stuff on the PowerPoint that's great but man is a sound that honestly I just think it's just unique for us as people this conversation comes up a lot and I almost want to reject it when we talk about style because I think we are so quick to on a quick fix that we want to look at a makeover for something that probably needs to be gutted for some people I don't think the issue is style much at all I think it's content and I think we keep looking for the style questions to mean something so that we can figure out how to fix a greater issue in 12 steps or three steps and so like you were saying like we don't even know what rappers are saying no we don't know what representing but there are other people who very much know what rappers are saying and they listen intently even though it might be difficult because they are interested in that person whatever their circumstances are however they come and they will do whatever it takes to be able to hear what this person is attempting oh I'm sorry is it tempting is attempting to communicate and I think we should remember that so that we can all be authentic enough to know that there's someone who wants to hear what you have to say and so I believe authenticity is where we should stand more than in trying to look for style there going to be some people who would love teaching style that's fine and I think what we see on social media what preaching clips go viral that does have something to do with a little bit of style but more the context and what it looks like you know you rarely see you do see sermons like I think I'm Edie Smith has this he's talking about homosexuality and it went viral in a regular traditional Baptist Church that was because of the content but sometimes just the look of it can go further then you know the look of contemporary preaching can go further than traditional preaching I think we make this assumption that Millennials are gonna walk into church and hear traditional black preaching and feel like they're home again and the issue is there are many Millennials who have never walked into a church so they can't feel like home that can't feel familiar because they've never been there before and so there would have to be something that they appreciate a new something fresh that they appreciate and I don't think traditional black preaching is the problem at all I think traditional black pews and gossipers and backbiters and just downright mean people with the problem you know if there's something we want to makeover we should probably makeover our attitudes who are new people our attitudes towards people who don't fit in our systems it's not actually the actual style of preaching because one thing you know is that if there's something works hearing people will do whatever it takes to hear the message that's worth here and when we want to use stuff like they just don't like my style that's probably cuz you can spend the time that content and it's not even saying that it's not deep enough maybe it's too deep you know deep as a kiddie pool you know deep in one way and so shallow in another and maybe we should get to the point where we learn how to give a message they're simple enough as well you know I think sometimes we forget that kind of artistry and I have watched what am I gonna call you up here pastor Goodman preach and I've watched how he changes from one sermon to the next he's not lacking authenticity he still himself every in every service but he also has to acknowledge that there are different people there who need to hear it differently so maybe you change your illustration or maybe you use a little more some more colloquialisms than you would use in the next one so I think it's so much more about content and if we don't want to believe that look at how people sit and watch Hebrew Israelite messages on YouTube for hours ain't nothing exciting you know that's like going back to school I'm not into it but they sit there for hours and they listen intently take notes and go back and tell you what's about last time somebody was taking notes and going back to share the sermon you preached that's content that's my style and and black Millennials are not a monolith absolutely so so just like anyone else you're gonna find people who want you to you know jump over pews and some people want you to sit and talk calmly and then you also mentioned sorry it's just that so much you also mentioned black Millennials going to white churches black Millennials don't just go to white churches they go to white mega churches so so we can't think that it's just white people that black Millennials are running to because they're not at rural churches then I sitting there with Pastor Bob and three members you know they're going with smoke machines and light skinny jeans Jordans and you know Steven Furtick and so why why let me tell you why I believe black Millennials go to white mega churches and I did do some have some conversations when I was researching black Millennials in faith white church seems easier than black church less judgment let's work let's Grandmama's did you have to be accountable to you can walk away in a sea of nobody and they're like look at that multicultural Church we got seven black people you know and you're like my church is multicultural it's not that so you know the issue is if I can go to church nobody's holding me accountable I don't have to have three new grandmothers we're gonna tell me about I'm wearing how I look what I should change ask me about my over reason when I'm having babies you know that makes it a little easier when I can walk in and hear this message that it in a way that's very different than black preaching that might cause greater conviction it's like I'm not so much here to tell you and you can't you can debate me if you want to but a lot of white megachurches they're not really so much telling you what's wrong they're telling you how to get the next step right and black preaching is also gonna tell you what's wrong and you need people to tell you what's wrong and sometimes we just don't want to hear that and then there's accountability like so where you're gonna serve and at a white mega church it's like you want to do parking lot you know no that don't work don't worry buddy just come you know people like that you know we don't want more responsibility and then not only that when you want to serve at a white church they're like you can do ABC which one do you want to do everything is already laid out if you're gonna fold t-shirt they have all 73,000 t-shirts if you you know I mean if you're gonna write a no car is there and ready with all the pens and paper you need but when you go to the black church it's like so what do you want to do is like well I don't know what you need me to do well we need you to come do t-shirts okay you get there at 8 o'clock it's supposed to start at 8 o'clock and then 8:15 hold on somebody going on the truck to get the t-shirts you know and then you have to wait until 8:40 to they go get the t-shirts they're like well how are we gonna fold them do we have a system for folding well just fold them whatever way you want to and then somebody else come in it's just so now that's not how we fold children's t-shirts that's how they do all the way in the choir you know and so it's not as structured you know some places breathe some places some places you're right you're right let me say the same thing that is very true but when that's all you know you make an assumption that it's not I hate that we make that a suit do we do we don't absolutely black people can be excellent absolutely like churches can be excellent absolutely and I think that I hate that we kind of and I feel what you saying because I I just I hate that we roll into this caricature and I feel like that's an excuse especially a new this new day with Trump administration run to that church if you want to they're not addressing issues they're supporting someone whatever is being said and you're okay with that no one's addressing that well you know we can now go to white churches until about October you know of election season then we got to leave this time you know so we don't have to have no fights no cussing no nothing like that but the problem is when you've been at a black church that doesn't seem to give you those things and none of the world Bendis organizing great but you know having extra grandmothers having an accountability that's not bad at all but sometimes I think we tried to skip those pressures or that accountability in ways that we shouldn't I would go getting lost in a sea of white megachurch and here's a crazy thing I would say because I there's a church in our town that I think a lot are going to and when I asked they raised that same issue well you know what ain't messy it ain't this and I want to say I say it is messy you just don't get access to the mess that's like Sam chance kitchen you know when Sam Chan says you should keep some stuff in the kitchen they really have a great do a great job they got a great job and always said tell the black people I say listen they gossip over there - yeah they messy - you just don't get to see it you don't get access to that room they got me they got a mean Brenda but her name is Becky you know I'm saying but you don't know that because they do a great job of sheltering her from that so not only that and their gossip is a little different possibly you know that guy's been about what I got on at the black church but you know the white church they gotta like quietly talk about this Republican stuff you know they're not gonna let you in everyone when they make their volunteer time why did you see Trump we're proud of them you know so so maybe what they're saying is something that's not ready for public consumption in the way that you know a black church is like no I said that's too tight yeah don't wear it again but you know there are other conversations they're having a white mega church you know that just aren't appropriate for public consumption see went one I have this interesting context on my level so I'm 35 years old so I'm trying my best not to make the mistake that the previous generation made so now even with the church we just planted in Tuscaloosa the pastor there's 28 because I think another reason why we're failing in so many instances this generation it's because you got a beautiful sister like this you got a beautiful sister like that yet we delimit their voice you get what I'm saying so like it broke my heart when she said most of the time I'm speaking to white evangelicals so why is that she's sitting on major stages in black churches so so one thing we're missing again cuz I'm hearing them talking and it just it gives me life and it lets me know I'm headed in the right direction because I'm surrounding myself with people who see my blind spots you know just like we have a chapel at our Central Park campus that seats about 200 people and I've been toying we've been towing in now with I have a great teacher on my staff so you know what people may not like my style what would it look like that while I'm preaching at the West Campus at 10 doing my thing the people who wanted teaching only can come to this Chapel but I think we're so threatened by other gifts that we're losing people so my need to just be the man is allowing me to miss out on a crop of fish cuz you're gonna whatever bait you use determines the fish and catch so what I believe is our responsibility to do now is try our best to equip our staffs and our circles with everything needed you know I had to get out cuz I was messy you know I didn't have the structure I needed so I wouldn't found some people who knew structure and I I diluted my authority and said that's what I'm gonna do if they say do it do it I'm gonna support y'all cuz why I know Matthew Mark Luke and John I may not know systems so the problem is in the 21st the original I don't wanna say the original Church the church we grew up in the pastor had to be everything so now I'm trying to navigate this context now of no I don't have to be the CFO the CEO the pastor the doctor and the psychologist i'ma walk in my or you'll not beat there and like I can't wait to bring them to the church so they can have a voice with the women in my ministry because so many times Millennials are leaving because they don't hear or see themselves you give me so I love everything I'm here I did it let me ask this question shifting gears a little bit first let me I said do you believe that Millennials I know they're not a monolith and and I know they are people and in you know I am a millennial of do you think that there is a difference between the millennial generation and say the boomers and the builders yes I think is based on experience once again you're dealing with a generation that did not grow up in the church so their experience is different so I agree with the doctor Parker said at some point they don't know what they're missing and is this a foreign space so so of course you got to approach it and and the unique thing about our church and I appreciate you know having five or six generations it forces us to stretch to try to reach everyone I mean as much as we're given for the Millennials and generations these the largest generation we got coming up you know less than 25 so that's a whole new conversation here's the crazy thing I feel like sometimes we behind at the times you know me we're now oh yeah what's up with me lately the generations ease the one that's gonna be the one movers and shakers in the church you know and really seeing this whole coming back cuz I'm amazed and they're just reconnaissance and stuff that I thought was gone like man champion is in Nordstrom's now like a good champion in Walmart when I was growing up right I'm like this is crazy right or you got like so this is coming back to this old school stuff like man you got feel eyes on fatal eyes like are you see II tonics you know I mean so I think it's a coming back that's incredible stuff I never thought that people would ever do again jumpers with one strap on right I'm like this is bananas like thick shoes is all right so you see in a generation now that really likes to feel this oh there's a reconnaissance and vinyl collection so that I think that's where the church now has an amazing opportunity they say hey man these some relics of our past and who we are then once you find this thing again man it's cool it's gonna be a coming back it's an incredible it's almost like the the post-exilic period for Israel right you know after those 70 years come on back home you know so I feel like I think the challenge is is understanding most it is experiential we're not having to reach generations that knew nothing about the histrionics of the church and what's brought us through but now they get a taste of they're like man I like this that's real good I feel that I feel that its connection so I think I think you got to really do your generational studies and do the experience study and understand that each one brings its own uniqueness to it right yes and I think that's it I think I think in my context I think there's only one difference between all generations and their sight and I say that because if all you see is a carpenter Jesus to fix your house if you see a savior he'll fix your world so what he does for you it's based off of how you see them and so for me when I look at the Boomers and I look at the Millennials and diseases that are coming up for me the difference between my grandmother and myself it's what I had access to so my grandmother she didn't have social media so they didn't even know to believe God for Bentley they didn't know to believe God for me for what I'm seeing they didn't know to believe God for a mansion they just wanted a split-level house you get them saying so now we to mention in heaven yes yeah you said you're gonna get your mansion in heaven that was the conversation of the time no you know so now we have this generation that's rising to where everything that is not even attainable is available you know so every person now wants to be a boss every person believes in their heart they're gonna be a millionaire because we sit on social media and we scroll and we scroll and we scroll so the difference for me between the boomers and the Millennials and the builders is simply his site it's one of those things where my grandfather who is the last person to see dr. King alive and Birmingham every time dr. King will come to Birmingham he will call my granddad he's the president of SCLC in Alabama so riding with him and 19 driving him around I would ask them certain questions say Mike all we wanted to do was get our children into school he got her he was the first person to sit at the Woolworth counter and got put in jail so he was just trying to get in the restaurant now we're pastoring people who try to own them it's cite franchising them its site so I think what we have to do now is get to a place to where we don't demonize what's different you get them saying don't demonize them want to be a boss but also under Garnett and the sound theology I think to your point this is a thought that just came to my mind so I may or may not be true so throw it away but I think one thing that makes me different from my mother when I think about her life and her upbringing and her friends my brother my mom was born in 1954 in st. Louis Missouri to a mother who worked who did not work who did not have an education with eight children I was born in 1989 with a mom but I was working and supply my needs and so I think one of the primary differences I would think is proximity to difficulty it just seems like the the prior generation their life was just harder it just it just wasn't as easy to eat even or to eat what you want and I just wonder how that then would affect coming to Jesus or staying with Jesus when you don't have when you're just not used to having to walk the narrow path you're just not used to being able to get whatever it is that you want maybe that is why the product the prosperity gospel is so attractive to our generation because we don't want to suffer we're not used to doing that so that's just a thought that's good generations are also usually made and they they kind of like keep pace you know each time because it's usually you have the generation that is but that has come before you kind of telling you to slow yourself pace yourself you know you don't have to rush to get it kind of keeping you kind of like almost pulling your coattail a little bit and then a generation before you is usually pushing you ahead saying hey let's go get the next thing you know like advanced culture advanced society and so between the two one is slowing you down when it's pushing you forward you kind of get to stay at this medium pace that didn't happen for Millennials Millennials had a generation before us that was kind of almost like as hot as we were as fast as we were you know like pushing us and saying like we all gonna go get it we all got to eat do you have generation bhai find us it's like working in double-time saying if you don't go out there and get it you know I'll double time and like go ahead of you to get it and so what we usually have will one it slowing you down and one is speeding you up both were kind of pushing us forward so we did not stay at this medium pace that people expected us to that's what happened in normal generation so when people tried to project where Millennials will be where Millennials will be or how fast we will go or what we would want next or what would happen they just didn't get it right because we moved we progressed a lot faster than they expected like if you remember when a o/l came out we pushed you know and we had gateway computers we pushed bill gates and the rest of them to create much quicker than they expected because we had dial-up and chat rooms and by the time we didn't like chat rooms anymore we became cyber inventive when we started to create and go around those programs and create new programs for what we wanted and so we push the tech industry forward a lot quicker than they wanted to and so one of the great one of the biggest differences is that you know we moved a lot faster than most people expect it and so I think that's a major one and then you know every generation is gonna be marked by certain circumstances or tragedies that have come along you know tragedy for Millennials was 9/11 and then what was it 11 10 when Trump was elected you know Mike Brown if you remember before Mike brown black Millennials were actually saying we had overcome we believed in equality and equity we believed both of them had come to us and it was generations before us who were saying you know no you're not equal no you haven't made it you know no they still think of you still have to work you know five times harder to get where they are and we really didn't possibly believe that and so generation before us in trying to really wake us up Mike Brown dies well he's murdered and he's laying in the ground I mean you know in the street and we've gone from having strange fruit hanging from trees to speed bumps in the street and then we want to burn the whole city down and then the generations before us we're saying like slow down chill out and we like know what you wanted to do you want us to wake up or you want us to take a nap because now we want to burn down the city and you're trying to tell us that there's a better and so I think that there are certain circumstance or tragedies certain situations that have shocked this generation into becoming something that no one could have expected and you brought up a good point that I kind of want us to speak to the fact that we witnessed these kinds of tragedies and we witnessed them differently we looked at we saw it on social media Facebook we saw it all over TV which made Dominique Robinson calls it the the current day legacy of lynching so the question I have here you know she argues in her article that Millennials tend to hold similar theological beliefs as parents if they're in the church Christie illogical soteriological etc however there is a disjoint between how we understand theology and what that means for how it plays out in the real world do you believe that we're asking questions about concern of society and we're asking them from our preachers do you believe that great quote let me let me try to parse it a little more on that because I think where you are and I think what that Parker was talking was true it seems like generationally we get selective amnesia you know it's amazing how we always assumed that we made it but a lot of these atrocities were only 50 years ago right we've black people only got permission to vote like 50 years ago like this isn't a it's not even a generation removed you know we said people live who've seen some of the seminal moments dr. King being killed and some other things that transpired and so I will I will say that part of the generation before us didn't do a good enough job I think they tried to to cover this generation we're gonna keep you we want to assimilate we're gonna get you in they hovered I don't want you to feel this pain not knowing that no matter how much you cover is gonna come out yeah like this this is a harsh reality racism systemic issues and sexism and classism and now the the whole movement LGBTQ and those other things that were have always been prevalent but once again social media has made the world flat my guess is flat so nothing is localized we're glocal now this conversation we're having in Atlanta a greater Piney Grove is going across the world we're discussing something now that people are tuning in on across the world so with that being said the thing that I think is is unique is is that honestly I appreciate when things like that counts because it makes makes us force it forces us to begin to wrestle with the hard questions of our theology that needs to be addressed in the church we need to have we need to have mature people rocking with this stuff that man as rabbi harold kushner says how does what as bad things happen to good people right and and still juxtapose that with this whole notion as what y'all was saying about you know we didn't see the struggle but they struggle right one of the things I think has probably been the worst thing that happened to our our demographic our culture black people is assimilation because we had more advances when there was corporate sacrifice the bus boycott in Montgomery worked because no one took the bus but if you try to do something like that now man you know what I got my job you know I'm saying I I got bills to pay you know so we've lost that kind of collective corporate solidarity and suffering that we have some black people feel I'm above that that it never happened to me until it happens to you so so I just think the nuances of that I think you know we say have to do the work and that that's what I'm thinking through on that piece and still have to raise it for our people hey man we're still part of this amazing mosaic and narrative of humanity and and how do I try to figure that piece out even within the preaching moment the the moment of receiving what I need to receive and still wrestle with this ongoing tension of yes I believe in God but there's some traumatic things that I'm also having to live with and live through I think I think - I agree with everything you say a man in again I just want to pause to say how honored I am to meet all of you guys how inspiring it is I think I think that speaks to what I said earlier about saying you know when dr. King was killed people heard it on the radio they didn't get a chance to see it you know we get to witness the pictures there were no pictures - it was like on the radio boom conversely we saw people get shot dead with no gun in their hand so the anger is on another level I think something else we got to deal with - and I love with dr. Goodman said we have to deal with his own in my city I speak a lot of truth to power you know a lot of truth to power a lot of truth to power to where when anything happens in Birmingham everybody says I wonder what Pastor Mike gonna do you got me but I also believe too that the previous generation I pray don't get in trouble for this has has left our generation of leaders unguarded and unfunded so so as a consequence the previous generation has become a contraceptive to new leaders because they they feel they're nothing like when you deep to the right I mean it and I say that because I say that because I never forget tragedy broke loose in our city it was crazy tornadoes everywhere we're doing all we can in a community and instead of people rallying around here's this young guy with thousands of young people in his church walking through the street I think tornadoes hit our city we're putting people in houses it was so many volunteers coming at the the army literally escorted us through the neighborhood and instead of other pastors getting behind that they just said and watched me do it you got me or it we had something happen our church well another pastor from another ethnicity says something very derogatory so I challenged him in a strong way on social media through my preaching so the point the way it goes fire while he stands in his pulpit and apologizes then I'm rebuked by the pastor's I admired because they want me to wait on them to be done when there's wind millenials and I hope I'm get in trouble for saying this I'll rather ask for forgiveness than actual permission you got means so I think even in that if something happens in dr. Goodman City and he stands up some speaks truth to power I have a fully accredited American own fully accredited kindergarten through high school in a state of Alabama you got me something happened in my city my phone rings the next day be mindful of your accreditation you got me so I'm like whoa you got me we we were having Church in this arena downtown Bernie Sanders comes to Birmingham and I say you know what don't even worry about that our church get home to all the camera all the lights all the production stuff yada yada we do that then the next day contracts are being pulled and because of that I find it's a personal moment I can share it I know there are people watching like me when things happen now I find myself somewhere being gun-shy because who gonna have my back because oftentimes the people I'm trying to say don't have the resources to save me you get what I'm saying case in point we had a murder in our city and as a community we decided to boycott the biggest Galleria in our city it's dead during Christmas time you walk through there it's ghost town so as a consequence a lot of work workers are being sent home so I go to it on the other side of town I put about 200 white passes in a room and I challenge them I says here's what we're gonna do since we know you're not gonna speak out against this atrocity I said I'm standing here right now asking I want to raise 30 $40,000 because for every person being sent home we should bless him I raise 40,000 not 30 plus thousand dollars every person that was sent home we gave him a week's worth of paycheck yet I was called up don't clap yet' Fock six comes out boom local pastor raises money for people being sent home by 12 o'clock that night I was the biggest cool in Alabama because a generation wanted me to be a militant in a season I had to be strategic so I think what we have to do there and one of the pains I experienced was I kept saying to myself ain't no pastor or nobody from the previous guard go step up and say he's doing the right thing because what gets lost in translation is that while they boycotted those who had cars were carpooling so we can't just call somebody to a struggle but not be strategic on how we know sustain them so so I think what I'm wrestling with in my context now because I do have a lot to lose I have a kindergarten through high school I have five kids who I don't want to grow up in cereal and water like idea who I don't want to be left out of high school because they had on xj9 hundreds and Wrangler jeans who I don't want to have to experience all the hardship rats and roaches in our house I can remember the night my dad woke up tired of rats they ate a hole in his water bed he woke up he was a police officer shooting at the rest dad what's going on they got to die at night you get them saying I don't want that so at the same time I think I think what I'm wrestling with what I'm wrestling with which is why conversations like this are important and me and Charles we're probably had to get together and how do we put every pastor who's seeing what we would call culturally relevant success in a room and we discussed the pain where I had because most pastors most pastors now I don't have his context I started my church and you know when you started church you somewhat look like a cult or you don't have denominational backing so what I believe the generation will be stronger socially as far as social justice as far as social reform as far as a voter I feel like the power in this generation will rise when the previous generation lifts us up versus telling us to wait but that's that's that's gonna be that's releasing something I've been working hard for this position I was necrolysis I was assistant secretary I was secretary man it's my turn and so that's part of challenge I do think our Molina's I think what y'all have alluded to earlier we're not looking for permission you know we gonna go forward and I think one of the things that I think the church is gonna find even in our communication ability is that man we're having to learn to speak to entities that rose to prominence and power without the black church black lives matter movement that wasn't in the church hip-hop wasn't in the church so now the church has got to get to this place where I also understand my role is not just truth giver but I'm also a collaborator and can I work with you in partnership even though I know you may not be committed to my church right but we got the same goal let me just say just because when the tragedies happen all of the local activists you know most of the time a lot of the activists don't necessarily believe what we believe all right so the first thing I did was made a phone call the Holy Spirit laid on my heart six months before that reach out to each one just tell her how much I love them me anything I can do I can support because it hit me if we can't come to table come to the table with nothing on the table we'll never come to the table with something on the table so when that happened my administrative office all of their meetings were held there and I left I said no y'all got it whatever you need someone so so and so when they called me to March I made it very clear all right when I come I know because you know how chance can go they can get vulgar and get disrespectful I said I don't necessarily agree with that but i'ma be here because I know me being here says something to the other side you got me so like you said I think the greatest shift we have now is shifting from podium leadership to round table leadership you said that um you know we were left unguarded and unfunded and part of the reason is because they're still in that place you know so they're not gonna they're not able to do that or fund us and the reason they're still in those positions most times because they don't have funding like they can't leave they can't retire they can't go find something new because they didn't know what it took kind of you know to financially sustain themselves it was offering the offering or you know you're just trying to out this almost like hustle mentality and they kind of run have run stuff like entrepreneurs for so long that they never became a business owner and that's you know not their fault a lot of times they just didn't know how to make it happen so they can't leave because they won't be taken care of but they won't be able to sustain themselves and so I'm not waiting for anyone to lift me up I've always believed whatever it is I'm doing if the hand of God is there I'm lifted and I have what I need and even starting a black millennial cafe I mean everybody loves Barna Group but I would get past it like why you got to do you know like black research I'm like because and David Kinnaman is a friend of mine because you know when Barna was doing it they weren't even considering us we knew they weren't researching us we knew they were not given uh strategies for our own churches we knew that those books were not gonna work for us the curriculum was not gonna work you know we would have to get them and kind of give them a makeover and do so much work we might as well have you know done it ourselves and so but they still pay you know for this they're so proud when they have something that comes from pew or Barna or something like that when it came to me I know churches who have a full-time graphic designer no one said hey breathe let us take that part off do you know use our church for graphic design or and then when it came time for like when it comes time for activism it always trips me out when we say stuff in the church like I know you know they don't believe like us but we're still gonna help them anyway do you think all your parishioners believe what you believe you believe your whole Association believe what you believe you believe that hold the denomination believes the same no we don't believe the same thing we have a common goal that we you know rally around and you know we don't talk about the stuff that we know is not popular opinion and we all come together to get whatever work we need to have done and so this whole thing almost like how difficult it is to love our different neighbors is kind of sickening and it didn't come I don't think it came from this generation but I think it's easy to carry it as if it's our truth when it's not because you didn't have any grave differences when you set with the activists you know when they need it like it was like they're trying to tear up your church and cuss you out with graffiti on the side of your building we have to get to the point where we see the humanity in each other let me let me interject here and ask this question so there seems to be a lot of you know in it's fair to say that it's millennial preachers that there has to be a lot of praxis prophetic practices that goes with what you're preaching in the pulpit let me ask the step back as it relates to as you're thinking about what you want to lead your church to do be it in Birmingham to push against or speak against power when whenever you're writing a sermon you're always crossing a bridge from text and theology to people when you're writing your sermons and you're thinking about and I'll ask about the other generation in a second but you're thinking about your millennial context your millennial groups what are questions you're asking yourself that that you know Millennials are coming concerns that they're bringing to the preaching moment that you know you've got to address yes let me just start here and y'all can break it down to the thing I do think and once again you asked about sermon prep which is always a unique I always tell people for me I invite my context to my desk I view the desk is worship that's a worship moment preparation is worship for me so devoid of that because I could go on a whole new mythology piece on that because I will say that a lot of times what we do miss in the preaching moment is we really do not appreciate the spirits work in preaching right like even though I can be targeted I've had many instances people come up to me G man that word bless me what you said so-and-so and I know I didn't say it but the spirit took something that I say it in my brokenness and then me trying to make it cool and hit and made it hit like it needed to hit so I don't want to get the the spirit piece is very important in preaching and I and I rely heavily on that and part of my prayer when I'm preparing is God you know what my people need to hear every Saturday I pray in my church I pray over every pew because I want those who come in in that day to receive the word that they need to receive and I don't want anything to say on that so but I will say I do think if you were to make it more targeted from a more practical constructive standpoint for me I do think that preaching has changed in this generation from this perspective that the older ones knew the story so I didn't have the reference as much it was more observation investigation now what you're seeing in the new what I'm really working hard in my preaching is all right not just observation investigation but what's the illustration and application like that has to be a major part of the message now right before I didn't have to I have to come up with something that was gonna make it live as preachers would say right because they knew the story I knew one I knew no I knew it but now I've got to create it and I got to create the moment I'm gonna give you the observation investigation I can take my Hebrew and Greek but here's the illustration just the other day I was doing such a such a data and this would have spoke to me and this what it means for you I think it causes us as preachers to this new generation millennial and Z is also being intentional about illustration and applica because I got to be able to take something home with me and and that's I think you're seeing that's for me more of the intentionality in the preparation moment is God give me something I mean like you said earlier Jesus was an illustrative preacher right look at the grass right look at this you know the kingdom of God is like this it's just really coming back to that and it is a it is a very formidable and impactful presentation style to also include those things so that's what I would say for me and in crafting those and making it live even real life stuff so it's not just canned illustrations I get from an illustration book right but what's life I'm on social media I'm number one cuz congregation care most people to tell social media before they tell you or the church what's going on so we have to kind of scroll just to keep up with our congregation but also I get to get inside and hear incidents and read stuff and see stuff that's like you know there was that story of the the church that was in Alabama and they where you've Church you've choir rehearsal and a storm went by and it blew the blew the roof off but they didn't even know they're singing jesus loves me this I know right so there's the illustration you see the impact of that right there that they were just in this moment a storm came through but they still have the ability to sing so it gives us the opportunity we are now having the the option of being being immersed in real life stuff yeah that I think when you bring that real life hey I just read that article this week man that was something that we heard about and now you infuse it in your presentation it once again as my man said you got to have the Bible in one hand and newspaper in the other and Netflix in their screen you know it's one of those things I think I think another thing that you know you have to do I do it even in the curriculum that I the curriculum I've written I also say what what don't you by you know when I tell this story what part of it is bogus for you you know they didn't know goldfish - I don't know person because you know when you're talking to children you might say well but if they've never seen a whale and all they see is a goldfish and their mind is like goldfish don't swallow people you know and so you know what's hard to take what's hard to accept and then I also ask another question what part of this violates my humanity because sometimes we're looking at text and it seems to you know violate who we are or what we believe and I have to ask those questions so that I can make sure I address them to the person the skeptic the millennial skeptic who's there listening to me and googling what I say as I say it so that they can debunk it you know so I think that's another I don't know what your question was no more but but okay but when Pastor Kim was talking dr. Kim was talking I thought about that you know that we also have to go through that kind of stuff and then we have to have so much a cultural consumption these days - you know like I don't get a chance to watch a lot of TV the best I can do is you know when I'm on the plane and Airport many times these days but I you know you have to I have to know even though I think Nene is mean I still gotta know what she's saying you know so I don't you know miss the biggest things I still have to know what's happening you know in the world I have to know what the hottest memes are so that I don't certain things don't go above my head and it's not even so much that I have to get out there and preach them you know and like give them a Nicki Minaj version which I have done before I don't have to necessarily do that but I need to know what's going on around me and today you just can't preach in a bubble you know like I remember going on a silent retreat and I had to preach after my silent retreat and my nephew seems to think that he needs to help me with my sermons and has four years now and so you know yeah he's like so cheesy what you got in there this time I'm like I really don't have any and he's like well why not I was like what's what's the top Billboard songs he's like oh no you said that's what the whole preachers do when they've lost touch like you can't do that you know but you've been in a silent retreat you know so if you use anything that I give you it's not gonna be real you know say it's not gonna come off as authentic so you know like it's not gonna sound like your normal preaching because you haven't been in the world for a while but you just got to give it your best and that's the tricky thing like I think that might have been the most difficult sermon I ever had to write after silent retreat because the only person I was hearing from was God which is good please Twitter fingers don't start on me while you're watching okay I don't have time for it I always hear from God what I'm saying is it is important to make sure no I don't know if I always hear from God sometimes no for real man yeah I can't tell me that giant never had to preach and what you wanted to hear you didn't get to hear before you had to go out there really yeah what was the question again no she is from God is amazing incredible no no no I'm saying sometimes we want to act like guy came in it was like you know and that's not what happened I had to go straight Bible and I didn't get to hear God read something great and you know and so that's what I mean thank you so much that's a good I don't have time for this so what I'm saying is I do always want to hear from God if I can't hear directly from God I am always in God's Word okay but I also want to know what's happening in culture and every now and then you can't but I think is every time you can know what's going on culturally you should for the sake of the people you're attempting to communicate something that could be difficult like an understanding or difficult emotionally to be able to relate to people don't apologize I mean all of us has preaches the horizontal and vertical we have to grow in our divinity and in our humanity and that's who we are we are who we are I cannot it bothers me and then I'll let you I can't stand when people say I don't see your color or something like that that nature that's me like everything I bring to the moment is me how I saw life this week being raised by my grandparents the moments that I've had highs and lows you can't divorce that there's interests that I have that I have to bring in the moment so I I'm clear on you need to grow in you man I don't want someone who just sits away oh I'm just waiting to hear from the Lord and heals no I want I want someone who's been in touch who's had conversations who's who's made those moments go watch something funny go see you know I think that's what develops us and our uniqueness and you should never try to divorce that that I can grow spiritually emotionally mentally and physically in every way I think that's that's important to never apologize for Guillen out and culture you like what you like I like hip-hop I just listen to gospel all the time I mean it's so there's certain things that I just enjoy that's just a part of who I am because the fabric of how God made me when I'm teaching in my context our special Archbishop Clement said something that just always stuck with me he said there were four questions that our generation is going to have to ask that is what his church where his church wise church and when his church all right so not only and I love that dr. Goodman said he doesn't overlook the spiritual side of what we do because some of the days when I studied the heart is everything I wrote on that paper died and God had a moment and everybody lived so but for me when I'm when I'm when I'm attacking my text number one how is it relevant number two while I'm writing where is Church because I'm realizing like she said for church for so many people Church isn't on Sunday you know so even in my message if you just look at on a practical side you look at my message I'm gonna have my opening text I'm gonna have my notes I'm also happy in discernment hey here's what I want to hit the screen I'm also having a moment on the on the manuscript Dre that's my TV guy Dre this is the portion I really think it's gonna hit social media right here because I'm speaking to the brother who's watching and work I'm speaking to the person watching on the stream I'm trying to make sure Goodman said something that was so good because oftentimes what I said in what they heard so while I'm preparing I'm saying it out loud trying to say now what can they take from that then I'm also trying to go through a theological place to UM to challenge them no no God has me in a weird place in this season it's where I'm telling people everything they're doing bad right now Holy Spirit woke me up about three months ago and saying go left when everybody going right go left so instead of people I'm not even teaching them how to win I'm teaching them what he losing you know and and and it's risky because again nobody wants to hear where they're wrong but I also believe it's our job the greatest enemy to the Millennial pastor right now is social media we so busy trying to keep up with stuff that God never called us to you got me so just because I see just because I look on your page and you got 200,000 followers and 20 like sand so now I'm trying to mimic your mimic your voice without adopting your anointing did you catch what I said this is why this whole dynamic between Elijah and Elijah is so empower for because he said no no no I'm a pastor mentor and that's a whole nother conversation because I think the mantle that's a whole nother conversation because you got it was saying I'm a pastor mantle but I'm only gonna pass that mantle when they no longer can tell the difference between me and you that when you serve long enough that when you step up they hear me and a lot of times we're trying to mimic things that we aren't grace for so I try my best when I approach my message how can I do something so how can I be relevant like she said something a minute ago I think everybody missed she said it's above me now so how do you not implement that when the whole culture is talking about that you know so that's what we try to do I think I'm different and I think pastors have the privilege of again knowing your context knowing your congregation knowing exactly what is needed to be said so for me apart from knowing the region because I think when I go to places like Boston or New York or Seattle or Portland I know that there's a heavy skepticism that I have to address I think when I go to the Bible Belt you know there's a all y'all ain't saved even though you think you do you think you are that there's a different kind of thing but I think overall I think with every message that I give I think there are two apology or apologetic things that I'm trying to address one I think it's super hard I think I think people have a struggle with believing that God is good and God is wise I think so many of the questions whether it's sexuality whether whatever it is is good God good is God was and so whatever I'm talking about I really want to make it so clear that he is both those things and more but just because I think people think that God being Lord over their life is a foolish thing they really do they think autonomy is better and should be preferred but I think for me to say no submit to him because it's the best decision you could ever make why because he's good why because he's wise so everything that he has said is the best thing for you to do and everything that he is is the best person for you to have and so I think displaying God in such a way with whatever message I think it makes obedience make sense let me say this and for me as a preacher there are two texts that I use to really help phone hone in communication wise as Matthew 16 in acts 17 Matthew 16 is where Jesus takes the disciples assessory of Philip I write you've did a background study on that this was a place of a lot of background noise and Greek gods home as there was a source Oh place of Jordan and in this place with all this background or the farthest area that he's ever traveled his disciples he asked a critical question with all that stuff going on what are people saying about me yeah in essence Jesus asked a cultural question what's the word on the street about me what is so-and-so posting about me what did you get his email and then he honed in what do you say so it's a cone is is you can't be divorced of that so Matthew 16 always frames me from this place where I'm always having to redefine Christ in a culture where everyone is saying what they're gonna say about Jesus but then fast-forward to acts 17 is where Paul has to stand up in a very multiplicity pluralistic religious area right the church has moved because back in the day it was acts 2 Peter stood up he spoke people had an idea who God was but I believe we're in acts 17 now where Paul has to stand up amidst all these other gods and say there's this unknown God that you got listed but you don't know who he is let me tell you about them because now that's where our preaching has to in our communication has to stay we're in contrast with so many people are not automatically assuming that what we're saying is truth so I've got to work I cannot I got to come from the position where you're not coming as a believer you're really coming as a skeptic this is an incredibly skeptic culture right and I've got to spend more time I'm in act 17 I'm not an x2 x2 I could tell the story 15 5 1500 1500 people join because they knew the story there was they came from a place of knowing truth now I have to say you're a skeptic so let me share with you truth not this other thing that people say they believe then they'll take it so I've got to be unique and I've got to be authentic and expressing this truth in this moment with all that background noise Jesus did it Paul did it and speaking to the different generations specifically Millennials Generation Z I've got to come from that posture so I've got to spend more time say hey this is this is why this is this is the period but all that's going on and I know yeah you try to reconcile a good guy with a Trump in the White House and I know you got to reconcile like you said good and wise and and how could this tragedy happened and how can we but here's here's how we have to come to grips and also allow my people to have the tension that some things won't get reconciled and if you can't live in tension this is gonna be a difficult walk because there are some things I mean grandmother had great theology we just have to express it better some things you just know better by and by right I'm not gonna get on this side and so I have to give you permission to wrestle with that tension here's a holy God but he still wants relationship with unholy people right here's this God that has standards but yet you're still welcome because of His grace right so I've got to figure out the ways the nuances to the applicable models to be able to say in my presentation that I still want you to put to share God's standard God's love God's peace but s also wanted its be so attractive that even though you said this is antithetical to Who I am I still know that's the right place to be okay can I jump in there and it's also having a level of humility a lot of times you preach what you heard you know so I stood up and said I stood up in church one Sunday got happy and said I will look to the hills from which cometh my help we and we went to church that he flat does that's evil and that was a flat no no Nicky Romero sub doc I know that key but it was so weird I said it and something in my spirit didn't sit right then I started going to research and I discovered that that scripture is taken out of context very he says I would look to the hills from whence cometh my help it's almost implies certainly not know my hilt because on that hill they would read the Stars there was astrologers so literally and this is where I believe we're losing people the next Sunday I think God bless you I said before I take my text I want to play a clip I played the clip and said now let me show you why I don't believe that no more and I preached against me see because and this what we don't do well because pastors have this pressure of always feeling like with the smartest person in the room so I would do things in my church and in my context and say I would play a video from the twenty eight-year-old me then go to Yale and get my feelings hurt and realize hey I said this in 2013 I want it cuz my my theology is ever-evolving so I think a lot of times what we have to do is also be vulnerable enough to say I got that wrong did you just did that - well you talked about you know doing a poem when you were younger and you're like oh god which is a whole nother conversation about handing our platforms to people that whatever notice the I think I think and that's the other thing because once again we've been looking at this from the preaching standpoint from the podium to the pew but I also want to submit that the pew has a responsibility to allow the pulpit to grow but can you give me space as your spiritual leader to evolve because I am evolving I just turned 40 in June and I'm wrestling with this thing it is messing my whole life up right I'm trying y'all pray for me I'm over the hill right but man and so and so you're right like at 30 year old Goodman is different in 40 year old Goodman right and really honestly part of the conversation and nuances is who we preach to can you have enough maturity to let me evolve for it with you then know that I'm not perfect I'm not you know and I could we could get into the argument all day because I do think that sit them between being authentic and being transparent yeah you can't be transparent be authentic everyone don't need to know everything right but but I do believe can you allow me the space to continue to evolve right let me alright let me all right can argue with my boy you argued out help us Oh Lord see that that's where that's where we differ because I believe authenticity is killing the church and it now requires a season of transparency because I think authenticity can you define it I think often I think right now we're raised it's a crop of ministers coming up with false humility you gotta be false humility and they're mimicking what they're seeing because they see it's working like sitting here with her and what she say cuz I ain't got time for that that's authentic this is who she is who Jackie is right now that's who she is but I also believe too that if Jesus was only authentic he wouldn't have showed them the hole in his hand he would have just said no you know me but it required a level of transparency so for me and Mike I don't believe they should know everything but in my context you know I preached about my foreclosure I preached about me and my wife's living in the extended stay you know I had a child out of wedlock coming into my marriage you know so literally I preached on blended families because I realized it was so much baby mama drama out there so I literally sit there and say be daddy drama baby daddy drama too you know so I had to I tried I got you I'm wishing I could i'ma save your duck I can save me save you know save me but but I think but I think it's in moderation so I agree with what he's saying that we have to be authentic and that's what I love so much about this panel I feel like everybody up here you're seeing who they are at the same time I think at the end of the message at the end of the message I think I was trained at the end of it you ain't preached if you don't take him to the cross I was trained that I also believe too after you take them to the cross a portion of your altar call got to bring them to your doorstep you got me so that's why I was standing there and I will literally say now some of you sitting in here maybe skip tonight s timoni you know that's why the talented tenth maker from Paul insulates us with tough theology when he says for I bear on my body the scars in other words I could be authentic in my presentation but the proof that you can't hinder my anointing and you should want my God is in the a disk of what he brought me out of so I think sometimes we got a wrassle back - I agree the only other reason I said it in that nuances over there doc I'll let you come I'd never forget some years ago and he's a great guy amazing what he did Kurt Franklin some years ago was on Oprah and he shared his testimony of wrestling with pornography right yeah Oh church people how that's want to talk about God is a delivery you we all struggle but I got homeboys that took those Kirk Franklin CDs throw him in the trash Oh put him on fire even now say hey man Curt got a new album man I do he look at porn so so what I'm saying is there's always this balance that we have to navigate you understand I'm saying and so that's my only challenge with that is listen I I'm with it I understand the struggle but there's a whole new context that really honestly don't want to see that and cannot receive your humanity as well as you're trying to speak truth right but you and Birmingham let me say this - one of the major things God told me I was gonna wrestle with over the next three years its censorship sonship and Submission those are my big three yesterday was open house for my kids all right so my son who I had out of child out of wedlock lives with me and I'm not ashamed it's my baby boy my oldest son I love him with all my heart he lives with us and I mean it I rather be a daddy than be a pastor and that's that's from the soul I mean is I miss four months of Bible study because I coached football you know and I church stop showing up I said that's cool but after y'all decided not to listen to me they gonna need to love me so but I just say that and now and you blessed me yesterday I had this post because my wife and his mother they took pity every year we take a family picture for orientation and I was finna pull I had this whole post footer which she my wife was standing next it happened by coincidence my wife is standing next to Xander who's not her son and Shiloh standing next to my Michael who's not her son and I'm looking at the pitch I'm like this is powerful like how did somebody at home needs to see that you can get to this point and I couldn't press it and Holy Spirit literally said to me and I'm thankful for this confirmation he said Mike the church can't see it as restoration the world don't see it as a bullet that this is why I can't sit in their churches and I think that's what we have to necessary man that's a navigate you don't say what Rome's will transparent and who I hope this doesn't come off their case who's worthy of my testimony I think you know sitting in the mystery of God and the mystery and like hanging and the balance on things it's different difficult for this generation to be in a liminal space where you don't know what's happening or you can't like be sure that this is what God said I think it's true for most people I remember my grandmother died when my mom was 14 and so I was always aware of that my mother you know loves her mom loved her mom and it's just it was always difficult so I remember when I was little I would try to know my mom so well so there in my mind when she died while I was young I would still know what my mom would say what you want how she would advise me so that even if I had to be without her I could know her spirit well enough to be able to carry on and not be a motherless child I think that's how we want to treat God I think we want to know God so well that if I'm sitting and I don't feel like I'm hearing from God and when I'm doing sermon prep you know I still know what God would stay if I can't steal myself or quiet myself enough or if God just makes us hang in the balance sometimes I'm waiting for the spirit to speak I still know where to go I still know what to do but I think that there's something not just about the evolution of self but the evolution of God how we know God how we read scripture there we even have a difficult time with and we don't allow our parishioners to sit in that and figure that out as well like when you're talking to Millennials about things that you know they're just one time just didn't believe and what it means to grow from a place of you know skepticism to being like all sold out or what it means to get to the place where you felt like you were sold out and now you feel like you know you don't really know what God says in this situation and I want us to miss that that's where many Millennials are today and they are trying out different um faiths and religions and sometimes they're still Christian but they're doing other practices because something that they were sold out on or believed very strongly they just kind of don't know anymore and I think that's difficult for us to see people do because we're not comfortable with it because we want to know guys so well that if you know all else fails I know I'm better than anybody else so he's still you know in my back pocket and I don't think we give people the space to explore what they believe who God is how God comes through in ways that are necessary because that's what actually grounds us that's what we need when we can't find a pastor that's what we need when mom and them ain't around to advise us that we've been able to do the wrestling that we've been able to to sit in that tension and know that God still comes out victoriously and that God can take the wrestling and God can take us reading other stuff or doing whatever we want to do cuz God is still bigger than that and I'm not saying whatever you want to do recklessly but what I'm saying is it is okay to sit and put in the time to try to figure out where you are what you believe how you're coming to this place and I think sometimes in this especially like the white mega church the one to three steps that doesn't leave space for that which means as soon as I can't take your easy steps to get to this I'm torn Christianity is not real I'm falling apart and I'm back at Ground Zero about authenticity right okay so we transitioned so authenticity is I guess a thing just because I wrote a book about my story and me and my husband without a podcast about you know who struggle with foreign addiction and so it's a space that I think I live in I think when it comes to Millennials or people even in particular I think we like to know that the people that are speaking to us and the people who have a position of influence are like us I think that's what authenticity does is it saying oh they're just like me they struggle just like me they they husband get on a nurse just like mine they don't want their kids sometimes just like nobody okay I think it does that but I think one of the potential flaws is that I think many people like to hear about the struggle but they're hearing about the struggle more than they're hearing about the growth and the Victoria sness that should come at the end of the struggle where it's like sanctification is actually a thing holiness is actually thing death to sin is actually a thing and the gospel does work and so if the gospel works I shouldn't just talk about my struggle and not say how the gospel speaks to my struggle and the reality that the Holy Spirit is stronger than my struggle and so I think that the challenge for me is how do I share the struggle but I also say no but I'm getting better though I am becoming holier I am becoming more lovely I am becoming a more cognizant of my neighbor than of myself because I think that then makes people not so I don't know I can't explain it I just I just think it's not arrogant you could say that I am getting better I think I preach it real quick and I agree I agree with the process but it is a struggle in this day to this new generation that never Follette lets you forget your worst moment so so man even now we have people may have been quoted in 2010 with something and somebody went back and they tweets and read something and man it's a PR nightmare and I struggle with that I really don't know I agree I wish that I wish that people were more forgiving of the evolution of people you know we're all evil but that doesn't seem to be the way they will discount you for something you did 20-some years ago and we'll bring it up as if it's brand new yeah cancel culture and I really even in preaching and that's my thing because there's such a mistrust of institution and individuals that is a hard thing to navigate that I realize in my and in mind what I do this is what God has called me to I can't I can't go sale cars after this right I can't I'm not going this is it this is all I got this is I put everything into this calling that God has given me I've this is it and to know that I'm be hailed to an expectation that I don't know what's gonna happen if there's a clip that may have came out from something I preached at Salem Alabama in my first when I started at 23 that someone finally got a VHS and turned it over to an mp4 right and and now something I said then because here's the challenge I'm not just preaching to who I see nowadays every sermon we're preaching is going around the world I don't know who he is something different I don't know who hears that might defaulted to say God and our just from the thing called him here this is not a it's not a malicious where I'm trying to be patriarchal it's just how Harvin see and so I don't know how people will perceive even that moment they may hear something and take it and I could have been so grown beyond that so far removed this is an interesting culture where men they will not let you forget and the people who should support you because they know your growth and can say this is not who he is today yeah they become silent or they they repost the meme talking about you just to make sure the heat is not on them and so you know we don't support in the way that we can say I'm sure this person has grown this is not you know this is my friend I know better than this instead we're either silent or we're helping to perpetuate whatever is out there by continuing to share or you want to get on into a Facebook live about it are you gonna write a post dissertation you know about why my friend is wrong but I still love my friends sake you know well I mean those are good those are good good responses good discussion here let me let me get to some of the questions our audience to ask is asking and here's one question it ranked at number two is quite a few number twos here but first we talked about preaching the black Millennials and a lot of times in churches black Millennials it's rare that they're in churches by themselves they're in churches with other generations how do you preach the black Millennials without losing the quote-unquote seasoned Saints as well people don't ask that question when they say people are not when they are preaching to seasoned Saints nobody's challenging them how are you preaching to the youth how are you preaching to Millennials that's not the question we ask or like if I do a young adult there and people say like oh I missed some of those references they went over my head am i good because we have to sit in church in someone stuff go over I have for so long you know as young people and so I think that's kind of this is all I have to say about that people we asked that question when it comes to making sure because we believe seniors are the ones with the money right and so we can't miss them because they support the church which if your church is only holding on by a generation of elders who are on a fixed income then you are exploiting your seniors and it is your responsibility to grow everyone in the church so they get to the place of giving it's not easy I understand everybody said I don't like to talk about money you know talk about it you know it's not easy but you have to do it because guess what at 73 it's easy to give and trust God now because you had all those mishaps in 20s and 30s and 40s and you realize I really can trust in God it takes the time and the teaching and the pressure to get to that point so instead of trying to say how do we keep seniors incorporated because they're the ones who financially sustain the church we should be more interested in making sure everyone is growing and everyone can hear and everyone gets the opportunity to participate in to commune and to sup at the same table because you care about them and not because one sustains the church more I think as far as in my context I don't want to use the term easy preaching to the previous generation because like dr. Goodman said they already know the text so it doesn't take an outrageous amount of effort to try to get I don't have to target them so I try to use like my illustrations in my application for my Millennials one thing I've been doing in 2019 is in every mess I think one the reason we're failing some skeptics it's because for years we've been preaching about the people in the story and not the God of the story and as a consequence we're raising a generation of believers who when you talk about Shadrach Meshach and Abednego they think they're Shadrach Meshach and Abednego so the first thing they say is okay if I get put in this fire Jesus gonna show up early to come get me out when it's not about them getting put in the fire is how God kept them in the fire so what I'm trying to do now is wit Millennials is not so much focused on the character of the story but the God of the story because I think the character changes in each story but God doesn't write you got me so what I'm trying to do now is I'm just speaking irrelevant where they can fill it and also be illustrative and don't be afraid to take risk you know I even address it like she just talked about money I don't raise offerings at my church and everybody who comes is just flabbergasted doing all this stuff and you don't raise offerings Holy Spirit hit me six years ago in saying you can't get them to do what God can't get them to do I teach them giving once a year I'm a pour into them about the financial literacy we're gonna have financial literacy classes I'm constantly giving back to my church constantly giving to our community I'm constantly doing certain things so I are offering at our church go hey god bless you we can't leave you can give on your way out God we thank you in Jesus name Amen and we've never ran out and and that's and that's because literally it's because literally I I don't believe in wasting my voice you got me so when I stand in acts for something I wonder I want I want my voice to matter and end it and one of the things - if we're gonna preach to the Millennials and we're gonna preach in a culture that's convoluted we also got to be strategic so when scandals break loose because pastors buy Bugattis or certain things happen because certain things have what happened to the church money I was shielded in my city because the first thing that hit the media was see that's why I liked that Pastor because he gives back more than he acts or he's not always caught up on X Y Z X Y Z and I just came to the realization when I was 27 I never forget it I started preaching for money in a sense my CFO would tell me here's the budget for the week here's what you got to do if we don't get this amount this is gonna happen and I start feeling this overwhelming sense of performing versus being authentic so now I'm at a place is either his church oh it ain't and if it's God's church if it's his will is his bill right so uh you can preach for him you can still do an offering to those ya know but but now let me let me be clear let me be clear I'm not saying we don't receive offerings okay but I'll make sure people know that yeah let me go off no we do receive offerings what I'm saying is out of 52 Sundays a year Sunday I'm raising an offer for our school that are probably the first the second offering I've raised this year and I'm not saying that we're also offering that again it's causal no no no no no not cause offers no literally god bless you if you're giving a day give if not as a family when I so yeah I will if it's something going on I would say hey here's what I want to do Church yatta yatta and the response is always great because even from my Millennials and I maintenance like my Millennials of a great portion of them when I started this church were juniors in college who didn't have anything so I would literally say who don't have lunch this week in church and it makes you everybody ate so now that their senior engineers and entrepreneurs business owners one just literally move the White House working working to Washington trying to work for campaign is trying to get to the White House so now is this over overwhelming sense of heritage for what we're doing but I think if we're gonna minister to Millennials we also got to be strategic in our preaching approach and I minister in our ministry approach and are giving approach because the first thing Millennials are gonna say sometime is all that church want is some money so I think the thing we're missing is Jesus pastored a whole generation with those two fish and five loaves he says no wing we don't think how can they hear me if they hungry so I just they stood those Lance do there to give the two fish family so I agree let me push back because you my man 50 grand and that works in your context I do think within mine I promote the idea of generosity so at the end of the day I don't want it to be something the backend because I do believe giving and offerings as part of worship it's not it's not the in turn it's not the it's not intimated is not the halftime show this isn't we try to make it as much a part of the worship as the prayer as the as a preaching and proclamation so so for me I try in our context hey man let me tell you why and then we do stuff outside you see what we do we try to show the transparency and I think there's nothing wrong either way you're approaching you have to know your context on that so I just believe in in their in the spirituality of giving not just in what we share Jesus watched the widow what they might give her to her - and saw it so I think there's part of that but to piggyback on what you were saying one thing I've been trying to work on and I feel like I'm a dinosaur when it comes to sermon construction and preparation is I'm trying to bring more people to the table when I'm discussing sermons so I started something this year I do about seven series a year I know the rhythms the life cycle of my church about seven series a year I try to cover different things and this year after meeting with some of my difference we have a thing where we get together and we kind of throw ideas around and we kid ourselves I went back to my staff and I brought other people to the table and said that's what I'm thinking about and praying about for preaching this year but at that table head up I had different demographics so what does this say to you right you know I'm great I'm finishing up a series in the summer on David after God's own heart I'm going to move into a new series I'm really Church apologetics and I was wrestling with what do I call it the defenders soil for your soul but you know I want to talk about Jesus the only way can a Bible be trust I really want to kind of get some of these doctrinal things just out on the table I think that we need to also not only as your pastor preach of a be your theologian I need to need to wrestle with some of the things publicly because these are questions that you're asking and I got people at the table and I what do y'all think about this yeah you know which is new for me it was cuz I'm a dinosaur I feel like I'm the guy get the Bible you know pray and every you know so I'm trying something new to get more voices audible voices to kind of in the construction of the sermon because sermon and just what I say this in the marketing is in how much like what you say what you're bored rape because honestly sermons now replicate what I preached on Sunday a lot of by seeing on Sunday they can replay the stream from Sunday on we in store now our marketing team has to be strategic all right three or four times a week put out a clip yeah because most times that's all the sermon people get anyway is that piece there so really for me is bringing those voices to the table so that I can hear a concern how does this would you be interested in this yeah you know is this something honestly that really would would perk your attention if I talked about this yeah pastor or not how should I get that angle so that has been good to get their voices yeah in the moment of collaboration even though I still got to come with the construction I still got to figure out and how do i goodman eyes and and make this in my way of authentic voice but i need to know how you what do you think is this of interest would you even be interested in me talking about you know apologetics and Wow well I want to do a sermon on baptism in Lord's Supper do you even know why we do that yeah and while that's important for our faith that's good so so that's been something I think has been helpful for me and I still a raisin offering at my church I just let my to his own welcome that's good you know I think there have been a lot of jewels that have been dropped and diamonds on earth I want to thank you all for for just your wonderful words of wisdom on this topic give give our panelists a hand clap and miss Lisa feels will come take us over [Applause] you

Channel: Jude 3 Project

Views: 52,834

Rating: 4.8018017 out of 5

Keywords: Jackie Hill Perry, Mike Mcclure, Charles Goodman, Bri Parker, Black millennials, jude 3 project, apologetics

Id: cSxHOs1yzQE

Length: 98min 52sec (5932 seconds)

Published: Sat Sep 28 2019