Having Children That You Can't Afford? - Debate - AskReddit

if we had waited until we had savings in the house we would have never had them how true or false is the statement you shouldn't have children unless you have the income for it i would believe there is at least some truth in that statement children are very expensive and take a lot of work to care for aside from having a stable source of income prospective parents should have a network of neighbors family and friends to lend support in terms of child rearing having to take care of a hyper-energetic crying baby 24 7 will drive anyone insane sometimes both parents get sick or have emergencies that leave no time for finding a babysitter historically people lived in some manner of extended family setting having grandparents or stay-at-home aunts and uncles occasionally watching the kids while parents worked or rested i would say it's not just the income but time and desire i know lots of people who have kids because that's what their religion tells them to do but then they can't afford it or never spend time with it because they want to go hang out on the weekend or do other things without their kid because their kid can't go to those things not even just religion for a lot of people tradition dictates you have to pop out babies and people pressure you into having kids and then there are the people who have kids for a specific purpose in order to have more income in the future or to be the parents retirement plan where the kid will have to start taking care of the parents as early as 40 to 50. it is true if you can't support yourself how are you going to afford kids even if you can barely afford kids what type of life are you planning on giving them be lucky i even feed you seen enough children go through that what about higher education can you afford kids on your own if you end up in a divorce are you going to be a single parent with three children in a one-bedroom apartment your kids can't ever have friends over if you are dependent on government programs to subsidize your ability to have kids shame on you government programs in north america barely cover a child's meals for the month in canada i've seen pro be around 300 to 700 depending on the parent status not to be an a-hole but that's very little in the way of money if you are depending on a few hundred dollars to raise your child properly then you probably aren't ready to have a child if you're so poor and everything goes to raising your child what is your retirement strategy you going to expect your child to pay for you when you're 65 to 85 just take your child's income when he's 35 to 55 when they need it for their own family ignoring the reality that a lot of kids are accidents i would say it's pretty true if you can't provide all the necessities for your kids you shouldn't be having them it's cruel to have a child if you know they're going to grow up never knowing where the next meal is coming from or being homeless people are saying it's too hard to define what's too poor for having children it's actually pretty simple if your economic situation means your kids are being raised in an environment that would be considered neglectful if a parent with ample resources did it you're too poor to have kids so things like not being able to provide three full meals a day clothes in decent condition housing and utilities water electricity heat cooling this isn't a radical idea either adoptions already use this very requirement if you don't have the means to provide for a child you'll be denied an adoption i'm not saying society should police people's reproductive rights just that if you're considering having a child and already struggle to provide for yourself then you're a fool it's pretty true unfortunately it takes a lot of resources in america to provide a good environment for a child the amount of time required is insane and without help from a grandparent it's much more difficult i'd say limit the children you have if you're very poor the sad part is there's plenty of people with a lot of money who are bad parents and there's plenty of low-income parents who do a great job on a limited budget more true than false but a much better statement is you shouldn't have kids unless you've seriously thought about the responsibilities involved with raising them and providing them with a good childhood and are sure that not only are you capable of that but that you also want to society desperately needs to shift to this mindset children need to be a conscious choice not a default of course this is easier said than done as children do happen by accident but a child should not be born because it is expected as a next step first that's treading into dangerous waters essentially saying that those with less wealth shouldn't have children which is a joke cause wealth does not equal good parenting second this question puts the blame on individuals rather than who is really to blame which is the society and government that do not adequately support families through social assistance it's very true you can't bring a life to this world if you can't take care of it it's a responsibility a lot of people don't see it as a responsibility they see it as simply a byproduct people having kids left and right and still being unemployed i mean i understand that you want to have kids even if you don't have the blessing to have a job but it's still something you got to think about you know can i really take care of a kid and give him good opportunities in life no amount of money is ever enough when it comes to raising kids most people have children in their 20s and 30s when they are just starting out and not making much money yet somehow billions of people still manage to raise families have children if it is your heart's desire and the rest will fall into place we raised two sons living paycheck to paycheck until they got through college if we had waited until we had savings a house etc we would have never had them don't have children if you are unsure on the fence trying to hold a relationship together have them because you are passionate about raising children to me the commitment to sacrifice your own needs and desires to have children is much more important than how much money you have in the bank i think there is some truth to this statement but there are a lot of real world factors so the issue isn't clearly black and white what do you say to someone who had the money for one kid and then ends up with twins or someone who has a child with special needs that requires more money than the average child what about someone who had the income and then lost their job after they have children from my experience whether you have the income house car and savings that stuff doesn't matter because ditch can hit the fan very quickly and ruin all of that examples my sisters sister one had everything going for her and then had one kid at 20 and stopped until she got married because she was single cool she did good sister too did everything right got married went to school financially stable live in a great neighborhood popped out three kids then divorce now she's a single parent of three children with a genital of an ex and a truckload of debt that keeps her from buying a house sister three had kids early married kept having kids while having rocky relationships financially stable another kid not financially stable divorce more kids four kids in total now and she lives in a bad house and she can't work because of covet and doesn't have enough money for daycare so she has to stay home and survives off of her partner's income whether you plan for it or not the kids are still a blessing none of my sisters regret having their children but having more children does indeed make it harder doesn't matter if your income is okay because life has a weird way of dislodging things that seem safe sure you can try doing everything right but doing everything by the book isn't going to guarantee you a happy environment for your kids i once heard if people would wait until they have enough money and time for children we wouldn't be here you will never have enough money or time to have children i think this is true the modern first world society just is only we think about prosperity of our children if you look into the animal world or the third world they have almost zero income as long as you have food and a fireplace to come you are good at least they will be humble in a perfect world maybe but with the system we have that keeps people at their family's income level you've just given reproduction rights to only people who were born into the right economic class additionally statistically minorities are more likely to fall into the lower income bracket and you've then inadvertently created a whites-only law personally if i couldn't afford it i wouldn't though having or not having children is not a choice for the millions of people with no access to birth control that just boils down to poor people shouldn't have intercourse it's almost like there's some insatiable ingrained biological psychological desire to match privates i wonder where that comes from even financially stable parents don't always take into consideration the time purpose in raising them helping them learn grow experience and cope for their futures some rich parents are just as messed up and bad as trailer park meth parents more than just income factor in time spent being involved teaching life skills and lessons plenty of poor people have kids and do just fine intercourse is a strong instinctive behavior pretty hard wired into us and most of us in this threat would never have been born if our parents waited until they earned a six-figure income being raised in a family that struggles with money this is mostly false also people tend to forget how sometimes an unplanned event messes you over you know the classic couple makes a child dad dies or disappears shortly before or after the children is born now mom can't work because the kid ends up being sick and must be taken care of i mean if me and my brother was one of such kids i swear my mom would punch whoever said that she shouldn't have children if she couldn't afford it meanwhile our dad they divorced when i was like three years old was way more financially stable but back then i wouldn't call him a good dad in fact even today he still regularly says stuff that rubs me the wrong way although he's not nearly as bad as he was 25 years ago she struggled with money but she loved us and she still does she's only 52 years old and made all the best efforts to raise us well i'm all for having the financial resources to support your offspring but restricting it to only wealthier people feels a lot like eugenics for poor people not to mention having the income for it is awfully subjective do you have to be able to afford private music lessons and post-secondary education what happens if you're pregnant and poor where do you draw the line i think there's a better conversation to be had than individual financial responsibility i don't think you need to be wealthy but you should have the ability to feed your kids and yourself and have a roof over their heads if you cannot afford that then it is cruel to put a child into the world that will only lose out from a bad situation that they had no choice in it's like for anyone else who understands working in fast food starting off your shift or coming off your break and then getting into trouble because there are people waiting on food that was missing because the person you're switching out for didn't prep a good station for you coming in income based eugenics is bad generally the problem with this question is that it misplaces the responsibility for people being too poor to have children if minimum wage were still enough to provide for a family at home then any full-time job would be enough to have a kid or two instead minimum wage isn't sufficient for one person to live on let alone support a family schools with bad sex low student performance minimal access to birth control and contraceptives all correlate with low-income neighborhoods all of these factors also lead to higher pregnancy rates less access to abortions and ultimately more births communities don't invest in the poor and as a result poor folks aren't able to do family planning the same way wealthier folks are so yeah sure there's a family somewhere that can afford five kids but not six and it'd be irresponsible to have another but any time you're talking about 2.5 kids or whatever birth rate gets the population growth neutral if the family can't afford the kids that's probably a systemic failing not an individual one and the question should be how true or false is this statement a business shouldn't pay an income too low to support a family i'll probably get a lot of people disagreeing with me on this but i think it's not true or at least it shouldn't be children should not only be for the rich it's bad enough that they get everything else i believe that is what taxes and community is for i don't mind paying taxes that go to help families in need it's not their fault in most cases that they don't have money and that's something that should be addressed through education but as it stands you have to have money to get a good education to earn more money it's a terrible system meanwhile the government line their pockets with our taxes instead of putting it back into the community where it belongs superficially this seems reasonable but how much income must you have how stable must it be if your society doesn't provide many with the income that it demands you have before reproducing isn't that close to condemning many to involuntary sterilization worse the phrase is trotted out in the face of children suffering from poverty as a way to avoid sympathizing with them by condemning the parents they didn't choose bringing a child into the world is always a gamble and often requires support from beyond the parents [Music] it's a horrible statement having children is a human right and it's human nature only allowing it for the privilege shows a very questionable ethical compass it seems logical but it's horribly classist and inhuman instead of punishing the poor we should help them so their kids get the best start just like any other kid it's a social duty in my opinion kids aren't a commodity and the right to have them shouldn't be based on income just like healthcare housing food etc you need a license to make beer but not to make a child if you can afford to raise a kid just why termination is illegal in our jurisdiction there are no income-based laws restricting parents from having children but we have criminalized the severe neglect and abandonment of children in other words you're free to have kids but you better take good care of them or else at least get an education and a job and live within your means and have your children when you consider that people take until their late 30s to get an education and get comfortable in their career is it realistic to wait until you have a certain income i have heard of women grad students it being suggested that they have babies during grad school because they will be too old once they graduate it's a good goal to set for yourself financial stability before children but discriminating against poor parents because you think they shouldn't have had kids is pointless and harmful to society for example people with kids shouldn't get more money through welfare because they shouldn't have had kids they can't afford and the more common drug addicts shouldn't be allowed to get welfare because we're funding their habit what they have kids who are hungry sucks their parents shouldn't have gotten addicted to drugs having money does not equal being a good parent the more accurate statement would be you shouldn't have children unless you are completely willing and able to take on the obligations and responsibilities that come with a child despite what some people here seem to think most people who are poor are poor for life but when you start getting into discussions of poor people shouldn't be allowed to have kids you are getting dangerously close to a form of eugenics whether you meant to or not absolutely if you can afford daycare without the government pitching in or giving you low-income housing and food stamps etc you have essentially made your child's well-being and care the responsibility of taxpayers it's immature and careless to just want a baby people's relationships deteriorate the majority of the time over money and lack of communication so you can work opposite schedules as your spouse and lose touch with them to save on daycare expenses or you can have your kid being watched by someone who doesn't spend the one-on-one time teaching and caring for your child like a mother or father would you will be strapped for cash and your child will be at a disadvantage in life can't pay for college or help them get a first car all the way down to smaller things like not being able to afford their extracurricular activities in school and them being the poor kid with second-hand clothes with the run-down trailer i'd say moderately true most people can't put enough time into their job and their child in any given day what usually happens is families can survive with children being neglected but not with income being neglected so the decision is made and children miss out this nigh universal truth of modern society means that far too many children come out as adults suffering from some degree of childhood emotional neglect the effects of this reign from difficulty integrating and behaving civilly to altogether giving up on being a part of civilized society i wish that people would grasp that concept this is exactly why we chose not to have children i get tired of people telling me you find a way the way must be there first my child must have better than i did i remember not being able to do things and being the one left behind cause my parents couldn't afford luxuries and lessons it destroyed me a little each time i had to be told sorry we can't afford it or getting nothing for my birthday my mom tried to make things special but i could see how it hurt her to be unable to provide as a guy who became apparent at 17 i can comfortably say this statement is true my stress and overall happiness decreased to the lowest point ever after getting paid and immediately spending it all every single month it was very disheartening to work overtime as much as possible and working six days a week just to barely have enough money for even a notebook it took a solid year and a half working as much as i physically could to get to a point where now i can just work regular hours with a little overtime and be able to afford necessities if you cannot pay for the baby when you have the baby then you should be prepared to give up most of your social life and work more than you have before my daycare bill is 1 200 a month in a major city suburb realistically do the math can you live on your salary plus supporting another person plus the cost of daycare plus miscellaneous new expenses like formula forty dollars per week diapers forty dollars to sixty per month insurance for your child co-pays clothing nursery furniture like a crib it can be back-breakingly expensive to raise a kid especially if you're not in a good spot financially with that said millions of people with little to their name are wonderful parents and have terrific families is it easier when you have the income for it yes but it certainly is not a requirement i would say generally yes now what the definition of income for it means is debatable the minimum required is food clothes and a roof over their head if you aren't capable of it the government has to get involved with taking care of that child which i am all for by the way but the taxpayers are now stuck with paying for a child if enough children get on the system you will start to have other problems of where that money could have been put to use in other areas like education or public transportation unfortunately you have to treat the government really anything has a giant zero-sum game i think that is the correct term where if i put money in this bucket i cannot put it in this other important bucket thanks for listening to radio tts hit the subscribe button and activate the notification bell for more controversial videos click the right box for the related playlist let us know in the comments what you think about the opening statement true or false

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Keywords: reddit, reddit stories, best of reddit, askreddit, reddit story, ask reddit, reddit cringe, askreddit funny, reddit funny, r/askreddit, top posts, reddit best, r/, reddit top posts, askreddit top posts, reddit top post, radio tts children, can't afford children debate, cant afford children, antinatalism, antinatalism debate, cant afford kids, childfree, children expensive, children debate

Id: 3ObTjp4w0Dc

Length: 19min 49sec (1189 seconds)

Published: Mon Sep 07 2020