okay let us begin here we received a lot of questions which were emailed to me but also we have people who have been responding to the number on the screen so we have about four or five texts so I'm going to mix them in with today with the questions that were already previously prepared so gentlemen are you ready okay we've coated quite often from Christ object lessons page 69 when the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in his people then he will come to claim them as his own are you aware of anything in the context of where this statement is in Co L page 69 that suggests that it cannot be taken literally as it reads that the character of Christ will be literally reproduced in his people the context of that statement is clearly connected to Galatians 5 verses 22 and 23 where the fruits of the spirit love joy peace long-suffering gentleness goodness faith meekness temperance and so all of that is part of the character of Christ and it's also a desire to win souls so it's a reproduction it's not simply a reflection and it is being like Jesus and all of its fullness as he was on this earth any other gentleman you want to say anything yeah Dennis simply as it reads when then is that tough to understand when something happens then something else what happens let's let language speak its own you know I see it as the context that I brought out of Acts chapter sleep Peter Sirmon there when Jesus will come when Willoughby and all things are restored and in its broadest sense it is certainly the restoration of the image of God in human beings you know did this is one of the goals I mean from the whole gospel the plan of salvation the restoration and of course with this image of God is the restoration of the image of Christ the character of Christ the intimately related to each other can be taken at face value to be a reality which is described here in Co l69 yeah that is one thing that it is often used also with Matthew 5:48 they try to rip that out of the context Travis try to make say some that is not that's one thing that this book here does quite often the one that pastor Patrick mentor too and it ignores a plethora of statements in the spirit of prophecy it takes one and is an expand upon it and it ignores a mountain of evidence to the contrary now this whole thing here of reflecting and reproducing the character Kreisler commence in my first experience in this discussion will took place many many years ago I just have one simple challenge and that is this looking for one scripture just one scripture or one statement in the spirit of prophecy that tells me that I cannot overcome sin give me one I threw the challenge out there some 26 years ago when I first began doing this I'm still waiting for the response it doesn't exist you were talking about the context well let's read the context it says Christ is waiting with longing desire so that spiritual right he's not really waiting he's not really having a longing desire is that the conclusion he is waiting so Christ is not waiting for the longing desire for us for the manifestation of himself in his church so church is also something spiritual I guess let's we continue reading when the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in his people then he will come to claim them as his own it is the privilege because that's a spiritual word also it's the privilege of every Christian not only to look for but to hastin the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and then L&Y quote 2nd Peter 3:12 so I guess the whole second Peter 3 is saying something else we're all who profess his name bearing fruit to his glory how quickly the whole world will be sown with the seed of the gospel quickly that I guess that means slowly quickly the last great harvest would be ripen and Christ would come to gather the precious grain I just think that this is very clear passage yeah absolutely a second question if the character of Christ is already been vindicated in Christ victorious life and death in his humanity why has God allowed sin to continue for another 2,000 years why didn't Jesus just go back to heaven and then return immediately for his people doctor damn state God wants to show demonstrate to the whole world and the universe that if you let Satan continue to go what will happen and therefore the serene half times the 1260 prophetic days the 1260 years is in demonstration of the viciousness and destructiveness of Satan and so Satan has had his game the end of the 12 and 60 years in 1798 now you have the period of the restoration of the gospel and then Christ is there to demonstrate to the world after Satan has demonstrated his tactics what can be done with the human race who are faithful so Satan tries to destroy the faithful and he nearly finished everything now God will demonstrate did just the opposite and generation of the 144,000 that is perfectly followed Jesus wherever he goes and that I think is the great demonstration that if Satan is in control evil destroy God's people in Christ is in control he'll demonstrate to the world that not only one person not only Jesus himself but sinful human beings at the weakest point at the end of time can demonstrate what the power even though Jesus in his humanity which was fallen like ours vindicated the character of God lived a sinless life that I was able to offer himself as a sinless sacrifice to provide an atonement but this life this world has gone on for another 2,000 years Dennis I think that question answers itself if Christ fully answered all the charges of Satan against God's character at the cross if God won the war why isn't it over if God did accomplish everything he needed to accomplish at that moment then he is responsible for the horrors and the atrocities that the last two thousand years has brought us and I consider that an unacceptable solution 13 and 14 record the experience of the children of Israel in the wilderness and there was a delay in arriving back where God wanted them to be I mean there's there are a lot of Bible examples of speeding up or do the delaying the Second Coming or delaying rather God's God's purposes in different cases and God didn't just short-circuit everything and force it to happen anyway God you know we are unlimited time but God's got quite a bit of time to work with and so God is has his purposes his goals when you look at his hour of Ages 672 and rather a 7 62 and 7 63 you know where that after Jesus died on the cross the devil brought forth new charges there's some modified charges going on so God didn't say we've heard enough he said no we're gonna we're gonna saw we're gonna answer this - so I think that the the part of our answer is we're not talking about a handful of Ellen White statements that have been ripped out of their context or that we wish it were this way or we wish it were that way we have a lot of Bible evidence for this in this children history of the children of Israel in numbers were they were to go in the promised land they didn't go then you have Esther you know that Queen Esther went into the king and sped up the deliverance of her people who were about to be killed based on the decree so you have a speeding up there so these are things that there are there are actually several different texts in the Bible several different Bible stories that would help us understand that God has a purpose and he's gonna he's moving through that purpose and the the slower downer thing is not God the slowing down seems to be that we're a little bit comfortable here in our air-conditioned cellphone world so God has a purpose and he's gonna linger on quite a bit further if we don't get around to it and it'll be another generation why should it be the next generation when it can be our generation yeah I suppose we could say that looking out Satan likes to argue the point Jesus came down in our humanity he succeeded suppose the devil might say yes but you know that was that was Jesus let's see the same thing replicated in his followers do you think that might be a factor while we're still here God is waiting for this last generation to demonstrate what Jesus did pastor Patrick mentioned the reference they like to read here desire V dissipates msec won the contest here is Jesus in the cross the same saw that his disguisers turn away by shedding the blood of the Son of God he had uprooted himself from the sympathies of the heavily beans so that's interesting because even up to the cross saying had sympathized still in heaven then it goes down here yet Satan was not then destroyed why the Angels did not even then the cross the angels not even then understand all that was involved in the great controversy so even at the cross the the angel are still not fully understanding what's going on and for the sake of men what says the principles at stake were to be more fully revealed and for the sake of man satan's existence must be continued men as well as angels must see the contrast between the prince of light and the Prince of Darkness he must choose whom he will serve so so it had to plan a little longer for our sake as well as for the sake of the unfallen world's and it would just go to next page real quickly it says the warfare against God's law which was begun in heaven will be continued until the end of time every man will be tested obedience or disobedience is a question to be decided by the whole world which letter became would keep on going here but the point is even at the cross angel still likes a man what's really going on here and so the final demonstration that we were just talking about that is going to fully answer all of the new objection that st. brought up after the cross so there's a whole lot going on here that sattell have time to really get into thank you surprised I've been listening to everybody and all these good answers and I've had three different answers come to my mind already it's just too big we have to understand that when people have already died when they come up the judgment it's really a simple thing for God because they can't change anything they've done and but to bring people that are alive to judgment who can still make decisions require something that God has never well the human race has never with everything they've gone through and what God's doing is he's trying to prepare a people to actually go through that alive and all in the past the human race could not be ready for that and we are coming to that time it's pretty awesome to think about yeah investigative judgment judges the dead and the living the dead are easy to be judged they're in the grave their record is finished we look at their books and we see if they accepted Jesus or not their sins are forgiven or not it's easier I mean easier quote-unquote there's a lot but it's over for them but the living they keep living and then you're looking at deutschen and like oh he's good he's holy okay wait is he gonna be holy tomorrow now he sends tomorrow okay let's wait and you can't really when do we the living you can't catch them for the tale of her her for the head when that's why the book of what the Bible says there's gonna be a sealing time only God knows and that's what the verse in revelation 22 it says those who are righteous let them be what and those who are unrighteous that means if I give more time God a God knows there's going to be a point of time where he only he knows if I let the righteous I see his righteous if I give him more time what's gonna happen let him he will be righteous still that he's not gonna change aha I can seal him but if he's unrighteous God is merciful and merciful he's waiting for the inertia but there's gonna be a point but he's okay he's gonna say okay I see he's still unrighteous if I give him more time what he had been unrighteous til so only God knows when that moment will be that's the sealing but that's what the the the investigative judgment talks about it's the judgment of the living and the living needs to be sealed as long as they have any sin in them they can be sealed and that's what Jesus needs to intercede for our sin he intercedes for a sin so he Jesus cannot just come from heaven say I'm coming oh you still have sin well I have to destroy you when he stops his intercession Jesus comes to destroy sin that's why he needs to prepare his people to the point where he doesn't need to intercede for them anymore that's why the cross is not over the cross is not the end all right thank you gentlemen let's move on here we has a text could you please briefly explain the difference between carat to perfection versus perfectionism perfectionism is the same as legalism is the word legal a good word is legalism good concept in other words it takes a concept and turns it to be a negative perfection is God's working in the lives of his people to change their characters to be like Christ perfectionism is grit your heat teeth and try as hard as you can just get with the program it'll work out somehow someway somehow you can fight your way through this perfectionism is doing it the old covenant way try harder fail constantly Pastor Fred you know in that book God's character and the final generation they kept having to add the words absolutely perfect or absolutely sinless and you know absolutely absolute perfection only belongs to one person and only ever will and that's God himself even angels don't have absolute perfection because they don't know everything and nature perfection angels have but we don't and we can't change our nature God will change it when we come and so perfectionism is like to accuse somebody of a level of perfection that goes beyond character perfection and I think that's probably clear enough perfectionism is sometimes a term people talk about when you think that your flesh can reach perfection before the close of probation that was the holy flesh movement Indiana 1900 Brynn Smith movement in 1970 1970s as a belief that ours our sinful flesh can also become sinless flesh of Adam before the fall before the close of probation that's perfectionism so this is a this is a perversion of the true doctrine of Ellen White says we don't teach holy flesh with each holy character the character holiness is the true Christian perfection and it sits in 2nd Corinthians chapter 7 verse 1 this is that's where it is many other verses is therefore having these promises beloved let us cleanse ourselves from what how much filthiness all filthiness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God she says it says it doesn't say let's be holy it says let us perfect our holiness amen our sanctification let us perfect it it's not a bad word perfect and perfections than a bad word perfectionism is the perversion you know we are living in a time when there's a lawful lot of labeling going on and we've probably all been guilty of it ourselves I'm sure we have but I think we need to be pretty careful with these labels a lot of times the the purpose of the label is so that you don't have to take anything else that person says seriously so you label them and then you throw them away and I don't think that is Christ's way if there's a matter to be investigated let's look at it from a Bible standpoint and and I want to get beyond labels I want to be careful because I think a lot of the things that we found in in in the book there's just a lot of labeling and claiming we believe things that we don't believe and that seems to be the plan for that seems to be to basically to to remove the possibility of hearing hearing about that we're gonna label them and throw it away and I think Christians can do better than that I think we need we need we need to be that way as well we need to be careful we don't label others and just throw their viewpoints away labels do have a usefulness there is a usefulness but when you label people with things that are you're adding modifiers and saying things that are not even their own language it suggests to me that somebody doesn't want to hear this message it's and so let's try to somehow get beyond labeling things and throwing them away let's try to be fair with the inspired writings and take it from there I hope we haven't come to a time when it's too late for that I think God's people can do better that than that you won't find the term perfectionism in the Bible or the spirit of prophecy just so you know but you will find perfection we're talking about perfectionism and you know the myth the labeling and the you know the misconception I'd like to talk about the word perfect for a minute what what does it mean to have character perfection and we've talked about it a lot but we actually have to define character to understand this and Ellen White defines character as the thoughts and the feelings combined and so character perfection just means that your thoughts and feelings are completely surrendered to Jesus and as long as your thoughts and feelings are surrendered to Jesus you have character perfection you can have that right now at this very minute but as you grow you'll have to mature in that but that's what it is you can have character perfection right now and if you're surrendered you do the key is to stay that way thank you thank you let's move on to another question what are the hallmarks of the true gospel versus a false gospel and what are the contrasting results which will ensue I'll be seen in the lives of people on either side of the question did that make sense what are the hallmarks of the true gospel versus the false gospel let's deal with that first well I mean elder preview could probably give a clear answer on this but it's basically you start down the line number one how do you define sin how you do you define justification sanctification the nature of Christ and the possibility of overcoming sin the evangelical gospel says that we're sinners by Nature therefore we will keep sinning until Jesus comes therefore the only thing that can save us is a legal forensic justification because by nature we're still sinning so we're just forensically covered sanctification will only be partial obviously then Jesus couldn't have the same nature as us and then the possibility of victory over sin will be incomplete versus the true gospel that says yes we're born with fallen sinful natures but we receive condemnation by choice therefore justification is not only a legal transaction but there's also an experiential transformation Ellen White says in faith and works page 100 God requires the entire surrender of the heart before justification can take place and then the Bible says in 1st Thessalonians 5:23 that we can be sanctified wholly or completely 100% and that means victory every sin is completely possible so basically you can line up those two you know views and it's either false gospel or true gospel and the false gospel can lead you down the wrong path where if you don't believe you can have victory over son you won't and you'll fall into trouble on the day of judgment so that's just in a nutshell two Gospels best of Fred yeah I think I can ask a question that will really cut to the chase as to what the difference is and I'm gonna ask this question was the thief on the cross justified everybody you say yes now I'm gonna ask this was the thief on the cross born-again why is the answer yes because Jesus said in John 3:3 that unless you're born again you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven and he told that thief that he was assured that begin heaven and so if if he wasn't born again Jesus was contradicting himself and so what this shows is that the power of justification is the power of being born again it's not just well you're declared righteous even though you're not you are completely changed and I guess I'll stop there because I see other people who want to add to that but I think the one of the problems one of the reasons why people don't understand and they have a hard time with understanding biblical perfection and the entire sanctification of our character and that possibility is because I think a lot of us do not do not understand justification and what starts what begins at justification when I talk with some theologians I saw that there was a missing link right there and justification Ellen White and Bible said clear that we need to confess and forsake every known sin every known sin that we know of we need to confess and forsake through the power of Christ amen every known sin but then if every known sin is at the justification now everything that I know I don't want to be my idol lord I said I know this is wrong I know this is wrong and you pray like Jacob saying Lord what else is there and you're asking the Lord to reveal to you every known thing that you have seen precisely Ellen White says go be particular about the sin don't be general generalized but particularly confessing every known fault and sometimes it takes time because there's a lot and so that is true justification is true conversion and true repentance of every sin that you know but there's a lot of sins that you do not know there's sins of ignorance called involuntary sin sins of that you are not foolish you don't know that you're doing them yet just like Martin Luther and when West's art Martin Luther will be in heaven but he drank beer he broke Sabbath every week he hated the Jews and other things and so he was doing some sins of ignorance that he didn't know he wasn't ready for the Lord to reveal those things to him he wasn't ready for that but he was covered he was justified but was he sanctified fully no if I am an anti-semite today would you would I be your pastor we we progressed since Martin Luther right so God is not right now God is not just he we are justified when we confess every known sin and we forsake every known sin but then there's a process called sanctification you know next day the Lord tell me oh my son there's another thing yesterday you were justified you you confessed everything you knew but today there's there's this one more thing okay again forgiveness forsaking repentance and then lord shows you another thing next day that's called growth amen and you grow and you grow and that sanctification that swai people don't understand perfection because they don't understand justification and what it is and so it's perfection will be upon every sin of ignorance is being confessed because sins of ignorance guess what Jesus mediates for the sins of ignorant did you know that the Jesus intercede for Martin Luther saying I know he is the Sabbath keeper but it's okay he doesn't get Santa keeper but he still he can't really take that that's too much for him right now did you Jesus intercede for him yes he was interceding for him but that's what Jesus wants to stop interceding right okay I'm stopping see Jesus wants this provision why does Jesus want to stop interceding because he needs to what come down here and he can't just be interceding and coming down at the same time and so he needs to also stop interceding for our sins of ignorance so justification the beginning and then sanctification it goes to the point where Jesus doesn't need to intercede for he says okay there see oh they're perfectly they get perfected their holiness in the fear of God amen thank you oh we have another text okay text number two what impact has Desmond Ford's view on the gospel and the sanctuary had on the SDA church and it's V on last generation theology you want me to what impact is Desmond Ford's view on the cost on the gospel and the sanctuary had on the SDA church and its view on last generation theology pastor Larry well just a short answer is that we've come to the place where in 2018 we're publishing books that are that are in in contradiction to our own message so that's the short answer seeds were planted in the 1950s when we had our interaction with evangelical leaders those seeds were watered and nourished and fertilized by desmond ford we're now seeing the fruit on the tree that's all it is and i think we need to understand something here one of the main purposes of this symposium that we're having is to show the difference between the evangelical understanding of not only the gospel but the atonement and the whole plan of salvation and the true biblical understanding of the gospel and the plan of salvation that is one of the major reasons for this symposium and i there's one more aspect that needs to be said the word conservative is not good enough desmond ford was a conservative not a liberal i rubbed shoulders with him he was a faithful sanctified adventist believer health reform way better than mine at that time he was a very good representative of christianity he was a conservative and so the word conservative is not a good word to be using to describe ourselves right now we need to be seventh-day adventists not conservatives not liberals but Bible believing Adventists the sanctuary Review Committee with Desmond fort and a number of theologians from the seminary and administrators Bri and we said there and we worked with Desmond fort for a half a year going over his manuscript every seventh month he came together and then he produced another chapter and another chatter another chapter and I was really amazed the respect that Desmond fort gains during this thing during his review from other theologians and it is really amazing in regard to the sanctuary for example you know that the idea of a two apartment sanctuary was completely rejected attachment foot brought us up and and the seminarians and number of seminary professors and they don't mention names yeah they agreed you know that is that is about a Greek says it's clearly demonstrated and whatever and all that committee there were two responses constantly that were fed to him the rest was just sitting there and listening and greet and whatever and that was basically Gary tassel and myself every time he produced a whole document criticizing the various things and I still remember about the sanctuary where it seemed the majority of people accepted the view that there were not two apartments with what for simply you know the most holy place and Christ went to the morning for the place and justification took place there so what is didn't what is the need for an investigative judgment because you're all the judge and so I asked him are you really sure you know of this one apartment yes yes yes he said now can you doctor dr. forward can you show us some examples of you know the Hebrews thank you very you know and he says here's dom six you know next time oh I'll come so next time it was there you know I didn't say anything but I didn't eat anything and then I cornered him again I said you know I'm still waiting okay next time and up until the death a few days ago he never came back you know Joe I've you know I said give me examples examples examples and and then he was something like like an artillery gun he was constantly taking the floor of speaking and speaking and and some of us hadn't hardly any time or found an opening to respond anything and so I you know the influence that Desmond Ford had I mean he had great respect under the steel audience you know and that's his and and and and his manuscript I mean it it infected many many students theologians you know and and unfortunate I mean some of them don't speak up clearly today but they're there and his exegesis you know Meenaxi G's exegesis that's that that's it you know I mean nobody could match him except when you ask for specific things he wasn't there so that has been my experience very disappointing you know and every time he says okay thank you so much Don stick thank you so much dr. hassle you know I will take those things he could secret Federation and after this half a year when I saw his documentation and his response but he has done is all that he I presented against him he has used against us so that was in tragic experience I'll just say this well dr. Danzer he was dealing with Desmond forward I was a recent college graduate who was sympathetic to fort and then I had a conversion experience my eyes were opened and shortly after that probably 1983 I was given a paper by dr. Ford I think the title was the law and the gospel in Galatians and the arguments that dr. Ford used in that paper almost every single one of them is in that book that book I was shocked yeah the one hold it up yeah okay all the arguments are in that paper are in that book dr. McNulty just briefly the Adventist review wrote a piece about dr. Ford passing away and the author of the article mentioned towards the end of the article that nearly all adness scholars agree with Desmond's Ford's view of the gospel today in Adventism the problem is and that's true the problem is is that Desmond Ford's via the gospel is the false gospel which led him to reject 1844 in the investigative judgment so if the majority of adness scholars believe the gospel of desmond ford were in big trouble but thankfully God is raising up others to proclaim the true gospel and God's gonna want on the end yes that's the lhari looks that we're seeing you know they're talking positively about Ford in his gospel really what we have today is is the the the dominance of this other gospel in our midst it's a Trojan horse in our midst and so what are we going to do about it the doctor for not only attacked the sanctuary he attacked pretty much our entire eschatological understanding of Bible prophecy he it's a totally different view of endtime events but I like to bounce off wood alder people the same that the danger is not so much the liberal left knee heaviness Church but conservatives who have been was looking for exposed influence may be infected by evangelical theology and here in this book for example the the one that pastor Patrick was talking about God's character chapter two deals with a very fundamental question that is what is sin and part of thing that defines that distinguishes the false gospel and the gospel is our understand understand of sin now why do I say this because in this chapter here the author of this chapter if you go to the footnotes he almost always quotes evangelical scholars to support his understanding of sin and that is a very very dangerous thing to do and part of the problem we have in our church today is many many members in our church are being quote/unquote blessed quote/unquote enriched quote/unquote edified by reading evangelical authors America theologians regular pastors we watch them on TV I mean I'll say the names cuz cuz cuz they're not having us but how many avenues love Joel Osteen love TD jakes love Rick Warren they read their books see them on television and they're being infected by this evil theology that goes totally against avens theology and they think it doesn't because it's the real gospel and therefore now you have a generation a penis who are being exposed to this and when you hear the real gospel like saying what was going on here it's an earthquake that critical Douglass says these are called earthquakes because they don't match my advice is we have no business reading purposefully lifers have in church all these things we've not even read the great controversy or desire of Ages or all the things that the Lord has given to us let's get back to God is given to us and will be defended and protected from the false gospel I mean not to see the problem for 20th century adventism we sometimes focused on basic Adventist doctrines like unique doctors like the Sabbath stead of the Dead prophecies we focus so much on that throughout our evangelistic campaigns we just every year evangelistic campaign comes and you keep hearing state of the Dead Sabbath's prophecies Daniel revelation and we you keep hearing those but we thought we kind of we didn't hear much about conversion true justification true sanctification perfection you don't want to talk about that in veg Cystic series you talk about Sabbath the mark of the beast and things that and so after 20 30 40 50 60 years of 20th century Adventism we you don't hear enough messages on that central pillar of salvation theology you start thinking that well that's because we share those with Protestants don't no need to talk to to talk about that because we share that with haven't is with other Protestants right and I think that's how it kind of got infused when you don't emphasize something you forget about it you would be amazed as to how many of those speakers you love to listen to on DVDs and CDs and broadcasts that are preaching our doctrines and that are preaching evangelism and prophecy who are infected with the the evangelical gospel to one degree or another be very careful to look to know who you're listening to and what the keys are to a false gospel and they're very easy false view of sin false view of Christ nature false view of justification false view of perfection it's not hard detected to detect I'd like you to address this one as quickly as you can by wanting me we've discussed doctor for but let's go back to a little earlier time by what means is the evangelical gospel become established with in Adventism can you trace that dialogue in the 1950s wanting to be freed from the cult label listening to evangelical teachers as we go to their schools to be taught by them radio listening to broadcast that we feel are very interesting and they have a lot of good things to say and finally it becomes part of our unconscious system and we're trapped music how about music thank you very much Dennis um Larry go ahead I just want to add one little thought to which is that we're kind of coming hard on the evangelicals i I think it's I could safely say this you know although we we don't agree with their theological points we love the evangelicals we we have a lot in common with we appreciate them but but as far as shifting from a Bible based theology to something that is different and that that has spun itself into what it is since 1844 that's not our work it's just not our work so we can love them and appreciate them and respect them but that doesn't mean we need to adopt their gospel and in fact what we need to do is we need to be clear about these things that we need to share it with them okay this is our third text this is a text genesis 3:15 promises that God will put enmity hatred between Satan and the woman between his seed and her seed why is this necessary well I think we understand that but nonetheless that's the question bouncing Fred if that enmity wasn't put there every human being would have become a lover of evil without restraint and there would have been no possibility of salvation now read Romans 16:20 wonderful verse we all know that Satan Jesus crush Satan under his feet under his foot right did Satan bite that Jesus bite Satan's heel right did Satan bite Jesus's heel on the cross that's that's genesis 3:15 but look at here Romans 16:20 and the God of peace will crush Satan under whose feet I'm gonna repeat and the God of peace will crush Satan under your feet shortly the grace of Lord Jesus Christ be with you any man who's gonna crush Satan God but under whose feet our feet so the the cross wasn't the final crushing it says here that he needs to also crush Satan under our feet shortly amen praise the Lord there's the Reformation to be strictly defined on the basis of the teachings only of Martin Luther and John Calvin three main branches of the Reformation the Magisterial Reformation is Luther Calvin Zwingli then there's the Elizabethan Reformation the Church of England and we get Methodism out of that and we're pretty closely related to Methodism and holiness and then there's the radical Reformation so-called and the radical Reformation has two main parts Ellen White is pretty hard on the radical that the the fanatical part in great controversy but there's a whole other part that we get the Anabaptist and the Baptist's from and you know a lot of Adventist came originally from the Methodists and the Baptist churches because of their high regard for Scripture so there's three main branches of the Reformation and and like the the chapter that I've mentioned here on on justification it was just virtually pure Lutheran theology and that's not Luther's theology I said pure Lutheran theology not the theology of Martin Luther necessarily so we often hear however in our publications we hear about Luther Luther Luther and Luther and the fact is that we have strong roots in the rat so-called radical Reformation and in the Elizabethan Reformation and in fact morally Adventist we're Lutheran in any respect so we appreciate the things we gain from them but we've got to be careful I didn't what's coming in many times in our very own publications is you wouldn't know there was anything about one group the Reformation it equals Lutheran no that's one part of the total and we we appreciate parts of that but we have our roots really in other systems other Protestant systems and it's very very dangerous and it's misleading if I may say to portray the Reformation is being Martin Luther and that's that's the you know full stop sentence stops right there no there's more one of the reasons why we have a strong emphasis on Luther is that if you take the great controversy and you look at Protestantism there are four chapters about Luther once yet Roberto a cliff once you after about HUS one chapter about swingley a little section on Calvin so if you analyze why did she do this then you can see that each one of those three four made a contribution but Luther's contribution was such an important contribution because he of course you know you have to keep in mind he was one of the first generation you know reformers sympathic whatever he did but he emphasized the Bible in the Bible only that's a very important thing yes swingley did something kelvin or whatever but if i a little later on and whatever but luteal LMS is God chose Luther to spearhead the attack on the beast basically you see there was no one who will seem to be so bold and undetermined to go after this you see so that is a very important thing and and today and even in our church the hermeneutical did the discussions here in regard to what is presently happening in the North American division and whatever you see that we have departed from the idea that everything needs to be a step is by the Bible and the Bible only and I think it is high time that we go back to this and demonstrate is even in evangelism that we really the continuity of the Reformers following Luther now not all the other points of of Luther but specifically the emphasis on the Bible in the Bible only and in order to get this before the masses of the people it doesn't tremendous sacrifice that Luther had to make and I think that indicates why Ellen Wright spends four chapters dealing with Luther let me read something to you from looters ok real quick this is from preface to the Epistle to the Romans by Luther he said this about justification by faith faith is not the human notion and dream that some people call faith faith is a divine work in us which changes us and makes us to be born again of God it kills the old Adam makes us all together different men in heart and spirit and mind and powers it brings with it the Holy Spirit oh it is a living busy active mighty thing this fate it is impossible for the fate not to be doing good works incessantly it does not even ask whether good works are to be done but before the question is asked it has already done them and it's constantly doing them this is faith whoever does not do such works however is an unbeliever faith is a living there in confidence in God's grace so sure and certain that the believer would stake his life on it a thousand times this knowledge often confidence in God's grace makes men glad and bold and happy this is the work which the Holy Spirit performs in us through faith because of it without compulsion a person is ready and glad to do good works to everyone to serve everyone to suffer everything out of love and praise to God who has shown him this grace it is impossible to separate works from faith quite as impossible as to separate heat and light from fire this is thank you I was really curious for myself as to why I heard so much about Luther and Calvin I took a look at my library shelf the other day and I found a section of books that wide on my library shelf on just Luther and Calvin that I was assigned to read when I went to Andrews University I took a look for books on Anabaptism the Anabaptist the background the Moravian background not one book that I was asked to read in my graduate study that's why we've had some of the issues that we've had thank you very much gentlemen what are the similarities between the Kellogg apostasy and the modern-day books of a new order what similarity do you see there it's an attack at the heart of Adventism so we're switching where we're seeing your take was a day and one thing that we need to understand is this I mean we're spoken see focusing here on you no false gospel true gospel a Vaness theology evidence doctrine it if we have our pillars but the pillars don't stand like this avenues theology doctrine it's like this case like the similarity between Kellogg's apostasy in books of a new warden right right ok so basically if you take one pillar out the whole thing crashes down Kellogg attacked the sanctuary this whole thing about overcoming sin nano crimson is a misunderstanding of the century doctrine when unison essentially doctrine and which is doing everything is perfect since Kellogg attacked that and a day was in the same attack Islam or Bentley you see here that we have been warned about the Alpha of apostasy in the Omega of apostasy and if you look at Kellogg and analyze his writings and oh yes he says a Penta system in terrible terrible him but if you carefully look at it but scallop did is introducing a foreign approach to the Bible of foreign hermeneutic that spiritualizes many elements now at all night says oh I am afraid of the Omega because this is simulation what you see that out the books that had not presently being produced is again they deal with how to interpret the Bible the whole issue today as in clay ship you was how do we interpret the Bible and so like Kellogg Spiritualized the way the plain reading of the world today in the North America division and wherever you this the new books over noon order is spiritualizing away the correct understanding of the Bible and therefore it is extremely dangerous because if we accept those new approaches and new hermeneutics we have no like anymore to stand on and we're just floating away with the masses thank you very much move on to another one this is our last well text we got just a few minutes ago from a lady called Bonnie what is the essence of Christ's character that we want reproduced in our character in my last presentation Christ's object lessons 384 says the completeness of Christian character is attained when the impulse to bless other springs forth constantly from within and again the context of Christ's object lessons page 69 of the character of Christ being perfectly reproduced is connected to the fruits of the spirit which are love joy peace and so forth that's the essence so the question you have to ask yourself is are do you have a desire to constantly be a blessing to others or are you living for yourself so that you will have things your way that's basically the difference between being converted and unconverted melting thank you still books I have I have a copy here of father one it's a book published by the one project and I think it was 2014 I read through it but I want to go to page 122 one of the authors says this is speaking of heresy and he says this in regard to heresy when it that is heresy and I quote musics ugly head through perfectionism exclude sorry exclusivist remnant theology last generation theology date setting are just the general heresy of Christians not loving one on one another there's only one response so Huw quoits last generation theology with heresy and just further up in the previous paragraph and this is this relates to what I've just read here another term another of the statement he makes which is synonymous with last generation theology is that it's a theological and behavioral narcissism anybody want to comment on that I guess my response to that is they are accusing us of that the church may may appear as about to fall but it does not fall it remains while sinners in Zion will be sifted out the chaff will be separated from the precious wheat what are your thoughts on this statement the statement is pretty self-explanatory but one thing that's worth mentioning is sometimes people say oh there's the invisible church and I'm so sick of the organized body that I'm just going to be part of the invisible church and I'm leaving the organization but that statement makes it clear that the sinners are sifted out while the righteous remain so there is a visible body that the true believers will remain part of so if you're saying that it's time to jump ship that's that's heresy and that statement makes it clear that the ship will go through it's not theoretical it will go through and the righteous will remain on the ship think you don't know thank you Pastor Fred you you remember when you asked a question earlier what's the difference between the true gospel and the false gospel here I want to tie that in a little bit because in the in the false gospel justification is simply being declared righteous and that is the gospel and that means any change of heart you have any change of lifestyle you have or not salvation 'el issues all right now once you think about that from it because I'm going to come to this question if being born again is not part of the gospel if sanctification is not part of the gospel they're irrelevant to whether you're saved or lost that means if you believe that you can say that sanctification and keeping the commandments including the Sabbath are not salvation alysha's which these authors do say and if they're not salvation Allah issues then imagine when the crisis comes and you know if you don't believe a sabbath-keeping has anything to do with salvation when the crisis comes a National Sunday law person is going to say well God will understand if I'm not ready to die over this and so I'm just gonna be a loving Christian and I won't lose my salvation because I've been declared righteous and I'm gonna drop the Sabbath and God will understand this thinking is the devil's strategy to get Adventist to accept the mark of the beast and though it's gonna happen in such large numbers that it'll look like there's nothing left what is the difference between the seal of the holy spirit and the seal of God mentioned in Revelation 7 what is the difference between the seal of the holy spirit and the seal of God as mentioned in Revelation chapter 7 the New Testament and that is something that each one of us cannot experience right now paradoxically but the whole context of the seal of the Living God is as a response of who will stand you know when the Lord comes and those who have been receiving the last day seal still it has to do with the holy spirit but this involves the Sabbath in a very special way and those who do this at 144,000 that are going through the final crisis another thing is that a lot of people don't understand progressive perfection and final perfection progressive professional and why it says is that when we give all of our heart to Christ complete surrender 100% win every sin that I know I confess and forsake he with the Lord God accounts me as perfect he looks at me and he says if he knew more he would give more what he knew he gave to me he's perfect in Christ and that's called progressive perfection you are see you have obtained the seal of the Holy Spirit the Holy Spirit speaks to heart you have the witness of the Holy Spirit the Holy Spirit works in you right now and Ephesians 1:13 says that we were sealed but at the point justification we were by the Holy Spirit but Ellen White says that there is more education page 106 the germination of the seed represents the beginning of spiritual life and the development of the plant is a figure of a development of character at every stage of development our life may be perfect yet if God's purpose for us is fulfilled there will be constant advancement spiritual growth is attained through cooperation with divine agency of the Holy Spirit so at every stage we may be perfect now today when I'm born again I'm a little born again baby I'm perfect for that stage of development but if after 20 years of living in church I'm still just a baby there's a problem I'm not perfect then I need to get I gotta eat some spiritual food and get and become a mature men and women in Christ like you have to go that one right there I've got to move on to another text here one of the objections against last generation theology is the concept that being without a mediator means being without a Savior read that again one of the objections against last generation theology is the concept that being without a mediator being means being without a Savior in a response our Savior forgives us and he also saves us from arson so forgiving grace is completed at the blotting out of son but we still have enabling grace from the Savior that enables us to chill live through the time without a mediator yes you know actually I may have mixed this up with another one there was another one that said the same pretty much the same thing but it mentioned after the close of probation if we don't have a mediator after the close of probation it does that mean that we don't have a Savior I should have actually asked you that one I don't know if it's you've got anymore angles on that or Christ this is not just justifying grace there's also sanctifying grace after the close of probation there is no more there is no more repentance there's no more justification Christ finishes his intercession and he cannot justify the sinner so justifying Grace's is not available but His grace is not justification His grace is also keeping me from sin so after the close of probation well I still need Jesus yeah I'm not gonna still need him to forgive me for my sin because I'm not gonna do it I'm gonna need him for keeping me from sin he's the seal of God is the Holy Spirit seal his presence in my heart that crucifying my flesh so I will I need Jesus more than ever in during the closer privation that that question was asked by an adventist it is unequivocally clear that sister white states that we shall be without an intercessor during that time of trouble but that question makes it sound like that person does not believe what is written so if we do not believe what an inspiration says that's a whole other issue we got to deal with it we still have a Savior right he's just moved out from the most holy place pastor Fred did you have your hand up yeah I did remember when we asked about why 2,000 years you know you think about Israel they had a special mission and they failed as a nation and then the the church became corrupt and and then we have Adventism and you know the question is are we gonna fail I think coming down to the end what God has been trying to do is develop a generation that understands their need of him on a level that no other generation has and so I would say that living without an intercessor the only people who can do that are the ones who have known how much they need Jesus on a greater level than anyone else was ever lived except for a few little examples here and there like Enoch and so on thank you let's move on here how important is evangelism in the experience of the last generation and our dad not just from the all-important standpoint of bringing souls to Jesus but what effect will it have upon the lives of the last generation as they engage in soul-winning dr. McNulty you spoke about from what we see in that presentation from the statements from inspiration you won't have completeness of Christian character if you're not engaged in soul-winning and it's natural it's not a checklist thing it's I'm surrendered to the Lord and I love him so much I'm sharing Jesus with others I'm not just a silent witness but I'm a demonstration of his character and I want to bring as many people with me to the kingdom as possible that has to be part of our experience if we're gonna be part of the last generation yes yeah I believe it's in gospel workers Chris or Christian services forget exactly Raylan white tells the story of this one individual who was walking this to the snow and he came across another individual who was pretty much almost dick as the freezing and in the process of him helping him up and carrying him and walking with him what happened to him he began to get the blood circulation began a sweat and the very fact that he helped this individual saved his own life and so when we argued his soul-winning we are helping ourselves because if I'm gonna give a Bible study it guess what I must do I must study I must pray I must feed myself he forgive you someone else and so in order for us to develop that character of Christ in order for us to to have the Word of God in our hearts we must be actively involved in soul-winning Jesus taught the truth of course but spent most of his time helping and healing what implications do you see in this for the last generation and I've circled not just helping but healing the medical missionary work is the right arm of the third angels message and so that's part of the work of Christ that he spent the majority of his time in a ministry of healing and that opens up people's hearts to listening to the spoken word and the the teaching of the word and as the statement from ministry of healing says Christ's method alone will bring true success so he saw others good and then eventually he says come and follow me and that's the method that will be successful for us as we share this message as well to open dolls and open hearts let me ask you in addition to that dr. McNulty as soon as you are a physician some people might listen to the term medical missionary work do you have to be a licensed doctor or licensed nurse to be involved in medical missionary work clearly not because if you're seeking other is good and if you understand even simple remedies you don't have to be a medical doctor now having said that don't go and promote quackery I've seen that happen and they say they're doing medical missionary work please don't do that that's such a bad witness but legitimate Bible and spirit of prophecy based interest in people's health anybody can do that one more dot - damn state yeah it's amazing that this whole holistic idea of Christ preaching teaching and healing if you look in the educational institutions of our colleges and universities you know that is not at all basically being done and the reason is I mean yes there are some lectures but there are very few practitioners that is that and so in my research so my doctoral dissertation I discovered that you know really if you want to develop or follow Christ's methods then you need to incorporate it so I still remember that I decided you know I better get this education and so I was going to Loma Linda you know to take in degree in public health and I've also at the same time doing some teaching in the seminary and a number of professors that you know domme stick this is the greatest discus detour that you can do in your life you know now you are you know getting your doctorate you should stay in this area don't spill your beans thinning those are the areas so I went there and I met my wife and we both got to our degree there then we got into the pastoral ministry and we used medical missionary work as we have been taught there at Loma Linda you know with all the health programs and whatever and we had a tremendous amount of soul-winning successful soul-winning as a result of this then when I came back to the seminary when they wanted to me to teach there I wanted to have a workshop in natural remedies and they said no no you know you are not hired you are in the church history department I said okay can I do it somewhere else let's say a while to it oh you and whatever you do there that is okay so then I held a workshop I introduced her involved with the workshop in natural remedies in either therapy and then the income of the students the money went to output the next year they asked me to have it at the seminary simply for the financial reasons and for 17 years I have had every year for the seminary students a workshop in natural remedies and I know therapy until I retired you know but I mean you know and I have seen this success that in soul-winning that is incredible so anybody who says you know it doesn't work that they don't know what they're talking about James 1:27 pure and undefiled religion before God and the father is what to visit orphans and widows in their trouble and to keep oneself unspotted from the world we focus on keep ourselves unspotted from the world butwhat's but the beginning visit orphans and widows in their trouble medical missionary work is the part of pure undefiled religion thank you I cannot help but say Amen thank you alright last question so where do we go from here how would you answer those who love and subscribe to the last generation truth I know wondering how best to go forward and promote it how what do you have any counsel this is the last one two or three of you then we have to finish I came across the reason for this whole symposium this weekend in two sentences that elder Ted Wilson wrote in a recent review Satan will not give up his fight to neutralize the distinctive eschatological messages entrusted to seventh-day adventists to proclaim in these last days we are to make plain the Bible truth as it is in Jesus so that no one will be deceived by Satan in two sentences that's why we're here this afternoon and all day in last night we are being neutralized our distinctive method message of Adventism is being neutralized these four books and I'm expecting more to come these four books are having an impact on my work right now as a revivalist for amazing facts and they will continue to be a real danger as we move ahead so what can we do every one of us you me everyone are going to be witnesses for truth or for error either way we're going to be witnessing for truth or for error in our families in our Sabbath school classes in our church board meetings in going to conference meetings we are the witnesses that God is counting on right now that's how we go forward we get speakers in that promote this message and do it the best you can and I realize sometimes there's opposition but you know find ways to get speakers in that will promote this true gospel message that will prepare people for the coming of Jesus and and you have a lot of power you are the people on your church here the members you're the constituents of your church you can use your voice to be helpful and in promoting this it's not just one or two people that you can push this is this is something you can do individually excuse me in your church as well this is the seventh-day Adventist message we have a label last generation theology but what we're really talking about is the sanctuary understanding victory over sin having Christ formed within we're just talking about Bible Christianity this must live in your local churches you as the members of the here of Sacramento Central and all the ones who are listening where you are scattered across the planet in your local church the message of the seventh-day Adventist Church God gave it to us it must live in our churches you need to make sure it lives in your churches be be adamant be definite don't be grumpy as yes but as you be christ-like sustain the message that God raised up his people to deliver and to live and I believe that the Holy Spirit will bless you God's blessings will be upon you and this work is going to finish in a powerful message stronger than anything we've seen in 2,000 years but it won't happen if you're relying on a set of speakers or the right book to be published you as the members of the seventh-day Adventist Church you're the ones you're the witnesses god help us all to have the message that God has given the seventh-day Adventist Church live in your local seventh-day Adventist Church not Solari thank you very much you
