Good evening and welcome. Thank you so much for coming. That round of applause
was just what we needed, because poor Chimamanda is tired. She flew straight here
from Washington yesterday, but the strike meant
she had to stop over in Germany. It was a bit difficult,
but now she's here and she's told me she's a bit tired
but keen to talk to you all and I think a good round of applause
will have given her strength. -That's what you needed, right?
-Yes. Let me do a short introduction. As I was saying,
thank you to everyone who's here, in the room next door, and following online. We're live on the Diari Ara website and of course on the CCCB website. Several organizations
have made this event possible. We've wanted to bring
Chimamanda to Barcelona for years and now she's here
thanks to the CCCB, Penguin Random House
Casa África and PEN Catalá. So thanks to them
for making it possible. I also want you to know
that you can tweet during the talk. There's a hashtag
which is #ChimamandaCCCB and we ask that you tag
@cececebe and @CCCBDebats. You'll have seen that there's
a piece of paper on your seat. If you fill it in,
you'll be sent information. It's the newsletter from the CCCB's
Centre for Documentation and Debate. If you fill it in, you'll have to hand it in,
they'll tell me where later. First we'll chat for a while
and then you can ask questions. Start thinking now
because there won't be much time, so please keep it brief so that everyone
can ask their questions. When we do these events, we usually give a long introduction
about the guest. But I don't think we need to today.
There are 700 people at the CCCB. The event was sold out,
so you're perfectly aware of who Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie is. I'll do a short introduction anyway,
if you don't mind. Chimamanda is a Nigerian author. At the age of 18,
she moved to the US to study and she now lives
between Nigeria and America. Her country, Nigeria,
is always present in her work. In her first two novels, she talks mostly
about the Biafran War, the civil war in Nigeria
between 1967 and 1970. They are <i>Purple Hibiscus</i>
and <i>Half of a Yellow Sun</i>. Is it out of battery?
Oh no, it's OK. Then came another novel,
<i>Americanah</i>, whose title comes from a term used in Nigeria in a pejorative way to refer to those who go to the US and then come back
with an air of superiority. The book explains what it means
for a Nigerian woman to leave. It talks about Ifemelu who doesn't know what it means
to be black until she goes there. She doesn't realize she's black
until she goes there. Chimamanda began to write
when she was very young. She was a feminist
from a young age too. She was a feminist
before she learned the word and she conveys that in two books. <i>We Should All Be Feminists</i> and <i>Dear Ijeawele, or A Feminist
Manifesto in Fifteen Suggestions</i>, in which she advises a friend on raising her daughter
as a feminist. That's enough from me.
Let's listen to her now. Thank you so much for coming. Hello, you said it would be a short introduction.
-Yeah, sorry. I realize that... I just wanted to have you rest
a little bit more. I think that there's certain things that Nigerians and Spanish people
have in common. But now you'll be doing the talking.
I will just ask a few questions. I said, I don't know if you could hear it,
that you were a feminist even when you were a child, even before knowing
the meaning of the word feminist. Yes. And so when I'm asked
when I became a feminist. It's hard for me to say
because I've always been. Which is to say that I was the child
who was very aware of the double standards.
You know when I was very young... I don't remember
when I wasn't aware that the world extends
courtesies to men that it doesn't extend to women. That there are double standards. That women are often more
very rigidly constrained by the idea of their roles than men but that men
are also rigidly constrained. When I was a little girl
I was very observant and I would, you know...
So for example, in Igbo culture breaking the Kola nut
is very central. When people come to visit you,
you present the Kola nut. There's prayers, blessings, and it's a ritual
that I find quite beautiful. And you know
when I was very young I realized I.... women couldn't break the Kola nut. And I remember asking an uncle
and he said, he said, women can't
as though of course it's obvious. And I remember thinking
it just didn't make sense. I mean there was
an absurdity for me, in the idea that because
you are a woman, was a reason. It didn't make sense. I also... so in my family growing up
my parents we... For the time and place
my parents were quite progressive. Asked the question
of whether my mother or my father was a feminist? Probably not.
Not in the way that you know, no. But it was kind of,
it was sort of that we were a family
that was more progressive in a place
that wasn't necessarily progressive. So my parents were good friends. They went to work together, they had lunch together, they talked about everything together. My father considered the things
that my mother did to be very important. And I think she considered
what he did to be very important. But at the same time, you know when we were growing up
we had domestic help for example. So they would do most
of the cooking and cleaning but my mother made sure that
all her children learned how to clean. Boys and girls,
everybody had to clean. But when it came to cooking, she would say to me go stay
in the kitchen so you can learn and my brothers
would go off to play ball. And all I wanted to do
was to go play ball but I couldn't. And so I noticed these sorts of
little things. And I had an aunt... who was married to a man
who I thought was just a charming monster. And... I remember when the story came
that he had a child with another woman. And I remember how even the women
in my family were saying to her don't throw away your marriage, at least he comes home to you,
that sort of thing. And I remember
that she was distraught. But at the same time,
I remember that what she then did was to add his first name
to the last name she already had. Which is to say,
it was kind of a gesture of, in my opinion, it was sort of a complete giving up,
you know. And I remember feeling angry
on her behalf and thinking
why do we live in a society that tells a woman
to swallow injustice and bear it? And why is everybody
complicit in this? So I was a child
who was a bit of a troublemaker. I'd ask questions or pushback. I think some of my relatives
found me quite irritating, which is fine. Even when they taught you how to sit.
-Oh my mother, my aunts... And this is quite common for
young women growing up in Nigeria. I should say Southern Nigeria because I don't really know the North well,
because it's quite different. But in general that idea of,
you're sitting down and an adult tells you sit properly
like a woman, or sit properly like a girl. I don't know if they're any...
yeah, African sisters? Yep and they're like,
sit like a girl - sit with your legs closed. I remember being in the kitchen once
and I was sort of straddling the little stool and I was watching the house help,
he was preparing coconuts which I loved. So I was just sitting there
waiting for the coconuts to be ready and an aunt of mine comes and she's like
why are you sitting like that, sit properly. And her tone was so full of sort of panic,
I thought something terrible had happened. I was like what's wrong,
she's like, "sit with your legs closed." And I was maybe nine or eight, so the idea that so early on
we start teaching girls that their bodies are about shame. That our bodies are things that we cannot have control over,
we should feel ashamed of. Because I remember thinking
even then as a child... I mean
the kitchen in my family home. Why is this even a problem right? And I was made to feel bad
for sitting comfortably on a chair. Because the point is that sitting
as I was sitting was very comfortable. I don't find it comfortable
to sit like that, I think it's you know...
I kind of like to lounge... Feel free. I'm trying to be proper here
and sit up but usually I do that and I spread my legs
because it's comfortable and I wasn't allowed to. As a child I started to question
all of these things. I started to bristle. They, sometimes amused me. Many times they enraged me. And I think
I was internalizing all of them. And of course
I didn't know the word feminist. I read a lot as a child but I didn't read
sort of theory of feminism. And I didn't even think
of the word feminist until a friend of mine said to me
as I was arguing with him: He said,
"You know you're a feminist". -But he wasn't trying to be kind.
-Oh, he meant it like it was an insult. Really it was.
You should have seen his face because he was just like
"God you're a feminist." So then I thought:
"Yes, that's what I am." That's the word. -In fact, you insist in the use of the word.
-I do. I do. I do because... But I don't want
to sound sort of flippant. I know that it's a word
that's loaded with a lot of negativity. I know that in many ways
it's a bad word for some people. I know
that they're women and men who aren't comfortable calling
themselves that, because I think that feminism has
in many ways becomes synonymous
with the most extreme version of it. So people say: "You're angry,
you know you don't shave, you hate men." That sort of thing. Or, as a family friend in Nigeria
said to me, he said, "you know, feminists
are women who are just not happy." Which... anyway. But I insist on it because... two reasons. Because the dictionary
meaning works for me. A person who believes
in the equality of men and women. Because I think it's a word
that we should take back. Sometimes words that have been
loaded with negative meaning you can remake them
and I want to be part of that process. But, the third reason as well is that, I think we need to name the problem
in order to solve hopefully the problem. There are people
who have said to me: "why do you call yourself a feminist
why don't you just say humanist?" To which I say, you know
the problem is not humanity. The problem is that women, the race that is referred to
as the feminine race have
since the inception of- of humankind been oppressed, repressed for no other reason
that they are women. And we need to call it that.
We need to focus on that. In some ways it's like a man
who goes to the doctor and the doctor says to him:
"You have a problem with your prostate." You know what the prostate is no?
The prostate gland. -Yes. And then the man...
and the doctor says, "I'm going to give you medicine
for your prostate." And the man says, "No, no I just want
medicine for my whole body." Nobody does that, you want
to solve the particular problem. So in some ways saying to feminists
oh don't call yourself that, for me, is a way of
closing down the conversation. And I think it's also a denial because when you do that
it becomes very vague and very watery. And then it means that you don't have
to talk about what the problem is. I believe very much in naming things.
We need to name them. And when you talk about feminism, I have the impression that you do it
in a way, not an academic way. A way that is really close to us. You tell us stories about that.
You tell about how it affects people. I think this is important in your use of feminism,
your explaining of feminism. Yeah, I can't even do that academic
thing because I don't know it. I've read some of
- I mean much later in life- I read... It seemed to me a sort of obligation to read the sort of
so-called classic feminist texts, which are all of course Western texts. I knew some of them were interesting,
some I couldn't finish. Some I didn't
necessarily even relate to. But for me, I think I believe in stories,
I believe in the power of stories. And I'm also not very interested
in feminist theory. I do think that it can be important. I think that academic feminism
has done some good work. But sometimes it can become
about splitting hairs and sort of deciding
what language you should use and who has used the language
properly and who hasn't. And I am just dreaming of
a different world. I just,
I won't ask to change the world. I think maybe that the reason that my speaking about feminism
has resonated with some people is that it gives language,
accessible language, to some things
that women already know. I'm not telling women anything new. Women know this, women know it
from their own experiences. It's...
women know. But suddenly I think
it's the idea that it's been given voice in a language that they can access. It's not sort of jargon.
It's not theory. And feminism being everywhere
for everybody. For example,
in a song from Beyoncé. You appear in the song <i>Flawless</i>,
I think it's called? It's funny that you're like,
I think it's called <i>Flawless</i>. I think that there's some people
who knew Beyoncé's song who would never have known it. Do you think you would
have known that song otherwise? Maybe not. No I think...
and there was there was a bit of criticism from... And at least to my knowledge,
the people that I know mostly academics who felt that
I should not have said yes to my words being used
in Beyoncé's song, because somehow this was a bad thing. -Nobody's quite made the case for me
why it's a bad thing. -Yeah, why is it? -I don't know.
-Ok, you don't know. But I remember thinking that... the goal of feminism is that we get to the point
where we no longer need feminism. And so we should all be feminists today so that in a hundred years
nobody would need to be feminists because the world
will be just and equal. And I think to do that, I mean for me, feminism
is not about having arguments about... It's really about changing the world
and to do that we have to reach people. It has to be
mass grassroots movement. We have to have people
in different parts of the world, in different classes,
different areas talking about it. And so for me, saying yes
was really a way of hoping that young people who love Beyoncé,
who listen to her music, would suddenly stop and say
wait what's this whole feminism thing. And I do think it's happening.
I think that there are young women who would never have thought of that word
who are identifying as feminists. There are young men
who are suddenly thinking about gender. Because what continues to amaze me is how oblivious
men and boys can be to things that seem quite clear
and obvious. And so...
I know that there are people who then went and listened
to the talk after Beyoncé used it. And I think that for some people
it was sort of like, "oh right I kind of see
that it's a problem." And I think that's a good thing
if it starts conversations, if it starts a process in which people
start to challenge norms and ideas, if it gives young girls the kind of emotional energy
to say no to certain things
that are harmful to them, I think that's a good thing. Is this the reason
why you did that TED talk? Because you need to bring it
to talk about it? Yes, right so it was my dream but I really honestly didn't think
that anybody would care. -So... this is true I mean I I'm very...
-You were so wrong - sorry. I know
and I'm happy that it's happened. But I didn't think it would happen
because of what we talked about earlier which is that feminism
is such a bad word. And...
when I was asked to give the talk - the TED talk
was organized by my friend. And he said to me,
come and talk because you have a following
from the first TED talk that you gave. I gave a TED talk called
<i>The Danger of a Single Story</i>. And I said to him, and this was a TED conference
that was focused on Africa. So it was an auditorium filled
with Africans and friends of Africa. And I said to him I don't really
have anything else to talk about, I've already said what I care about
which is the importance of many stories. He said to me, well, but there is that thing
that you always lecture us about. And honestly I had no idea
what he was talking about. And I said what?
And he said, "feminism." So apparently, you know in the way that
we can be um... I guess I wasn't even
self-aware enough to know that in my family
and with my friends, I was known for lecturing people
about women's equality. I had no idea. So I start laughing and I said to him,
all right, if I, okay...
I thought you know yeah. I remember thinking that's
the other thing I'm passionate about. And looking back now
I kind of, I think he was right. It seems to me that things
were so obvious that there was injustice. And people didn't notice.
So I would often go into rants. Something would happen
I'd say to them, "Well it wouldn't happen
if she wasn't a woman." And they would all kind of look
at me like, "Oh Lord here she goes again." So I thought okay
I'm going to go give this talk. And I remember thinking I'm giving this talk
to a hall full of Africans, it's not going to go well. But I was like
I'm going to do it anyway, so I did. And I think in general for me, it's a question of being true
to what you believe. And so I gave it without expecting. I didn't expect it to become bigger, didn't expect
my audience to applaud me. I expected hostility,
I expected pushback. And so because my expectations
were so low, I was really surprised, when you know,
when it kind of took off. So yes of course I gave it because
I wanted to start a conversation but I wasn't sure
that conversation would start. In fact, you received, I mean- people
were so grateful that you did it and they really after that
they read the book everything but you also received some hostility. Oh yeah.
Of course, I mean I think if... if you're publicly... if you took a public stand
for feminism in the world today you have to expect hostility. There's no way
that you will not get hostility. It's a pity
that it goes like this. It's a huge terrible shame
but it's the reality. But for me
that hostility makes my point. If we didn't live in a world
in which there's gender injustice then talking about it
shouldn't bring about hostility. People shouldn't say to you,
shut up. Or you need to prove that this happened
to this woman because she's a woman. Or you know just the kinds of... and I find it interesting how constantly
the response often is "shut up." I'm, I get that we you know... I and I think why?
Why is it shut up? Why don't we engage
with what's being said? So the hostility I mean,
you know it's not pleasant obviously. But... I, you know it doesn't....
I can live with it because I expect it. I expect it to happen
so I can live with it. And instead for me,
I find joy in the unexpected positives. I find joy in being told
that a group of men in Lagos watch the TED talk in their office and suddenly
start talking about gender and one of them said, "when I go home today I'm going to be
a different man with my wife." So I take joy in things of that sort. In this woman who's Bangladeshi Muslim
and her husband both are. And she said she wanted
to go to Mecca on pilgrimage. And she said to me the general idea that I'm supposed
to ask him for permission. And she said
she had been so annoyed by this and until she got to the age of 65 then she could go on pilgrimage
without asking him for permission. And she said she was so angry about this
but she really wanted to go. And so she was thinking about
this whole process of oh, I'm going to ask him
for permission. And then she said,
"and then I listened to your talk and I was like fuck it
I'm not asking him." And that made me very happy. When you did the talk,
I don't remember if it was in the talk, you explained that
a woman told you that being feminist
is not an African thing. Oh yeah, that happens all the time. They're like oh you've been
following white people, you're reading all these books
by white women. And in my opinion actually, there's ways in which there's
a certain kind of African woman that is... You know feminism is not something that is alien to Africa. Actually,
if you go back in history and I know about West Africa
because that's the region I knew best. But you go back in history
in West Africa and before colonialism,
women actually had much higher,
much more complex and much... The gender roles of women in some ways were much better. It's not to say
that patriarchy didn't exist because obviously men
were still more powerful in general. But if you look at pre-colonial
Eastern Nigeria, Southern Nigeria, women had agency,
women had power. But then colonialism came
with Christianity and it was a Victorian Christianity. Which is that what
was imported into West Africa was a very terrible, white idea
of women's subjugation. And of course colonialism came
with bigger guns so it defeats Africa or whatever. And suddenly
they're "teaching" Africans, that a woman's place
is in the kitchen and in the bedroom, which actually many parts of Africa
was an alien idea. In Igboland, for example,
where I come from it was women
who were the major traders. Women were in charge of
economic activities. And my father
tells the story about how, also in my part of Igboland,
it was women who were the sculptors and the sort of the people
who you know made ports. And he said that a, one of the missionary priests said, oh you know,
women shouldn't be doing this. Women should you know...
Shouldn't be doing it because somehow, it wasn't womanly
and feminine to be a sculptor. So... for me, really increasingly,
I keep thinking about the idea of crafting a feminism
that is rooted in West African history. The reason we talk about feminism
and often we mean Western feminism. So we talk about feminism
and we sort of mean in many ways we mean the Pankhurst sisters
in England. We mean, in America you know, Gloria Steinem and... But the only reason we do that
is because Western feminism is a feminism
that has been most documented. So my great-grandmother...
and there have been feminist movements in Latin America and Africa and Asia
they just weren't documented. There have been women
who have come together and pushed back at patriarchy, all over the world, over time. But because
we don't have the documents, we somehow have very narrowly
defined feminism as this thing where a number of women in in the US
and in England sort of said no. I think Western feminism
is a movement of many feminism's. And the reason
this is important for me, is because I think
the idea of feminism is universal. Just that idea
that men and women are equal. That idea of just equal humanity. But I think the way it manifests itself, is culturally specific. And I think it can differ based on
where in the world we are. Class, race, you know even based on
who we love, sexuality. This make me think of a story that you told us this morning
in the press conference about your mother
and the Chairman thing, maybe you would like
to tell everyone about it. So my mother retired as the registrar
of the University of Nigeria and she was the first woman to be,
which I'm very proud of. So to be registrar was to be the head of the entire
administration of the University. And the University of Nigeria
is Nigeria's premier University. So my mother becomes registrar
and the first meeting that she chaired she said that everybody else was seated
in the conference room and she walks in and there is the sign that says
"chairman." and she sits down. And then a clerk
runs up to her and says, "oh I'm so sorry madam"
and wants to remove it because he says he had brought a piece
of paper and written "chairperson" on it. And he said, "oh I'm sorry madam
we should have changed this earlier." So my mother said to him,
"put that right back, I am the chairman." And when my mother told me
the story she said that...
you know everybody was there seated. This was the first time
a woman was occupying that position. She did not want them to think that the walk she was doing
was in any way different than the walk that
the men before her had done. And most of all she said she didn't
want them to think it was any less. Because that was the problem,
that if she sat there and the sign that had been there
for 50 years were suddenly removed, they would think oh, maybe she's not quite equal
to the men who came before her. So my mother was like,
I am the chairman put it there. And I love the story. When my mother told me the story I applauded her
and I thought it was very cool. So then I tell the story to a friend
of mine who's an American feminist. And I thought that she would say
that it was really cool and interesting. But instead she said to me,
"oh my god that's terrible, why would your mother need
to be called a man to feel validated." And I was just sort of like
that's not what the point is. And what it made me
think about is, what can often happen with
a certain kind of academic feminism. You know
you've read the book. And in the book you know, number seven rule
in how to be a good feminist is, do not ever have yourself attached
to the word man. So you just sort of take that
and nobody looks at context anymore. And I remember just thinking but if you look at it in context
actually, it's a feminist act. But that for me remains... I think about that often and I remember
being quite irritated when that happened. But I think about it often because for me,
it's an example of how we can become... how we can be blinded by a certain kind
of ideological view of feminism. You tell us also about feminism. In fact, I think that you have
changed the way we see women also through your literature of course,
through your characters. Have I? I don't know? I mean with Ifemelu, for example,
I think that you don't plan to do that. You don't start writing and saying, I'm gonna have a strong character
because I am a feminist, -but this happens.
-Yes, yes, yes. Yes, I mean... People often say to me,
"oh you write strong women." And I think strong women
are normal to me, they're ordinary to me. It's not... I don't consider it
revolutionary really. But with the Ifemelu,
I think at some point in the writing, I think I was aware in a kind of, maybe both
conscious and unconscious way. That I wanted
to resist the idea of a woman
writing a likeable character or women characters
having to be likable. And I've seen this in... I read books.
And I can tell right away that an author is very invested
in the characters likability. And I sometimes find
that it doesn't ring true to me. Human beings are flawed. I think that our flaws
make us more interesting. But obviously,
I think women who are flawed are judged much more harshly
than men who are flawed. And I think that happens
in literature as well. So you can pull up a man,
a character from a novel who's a man. And you know you can be,
who shall I make fun of now... You can be a grown man who's sort of watching
a young girl who's 13. Lolita is 13 isn't she? And somehow, it's great literature. The character
is interesting and complex. Change it around and turn it to a woman.
It just won't work because everybody will be like
my god what a monster. And so for me,
I wanted a Ifemelu to be... I didn't care about likeability. I wanted her to be flawed
and interesting and I cannot tell you how many people
have said to me, "I don't like her." And I would like to... I mean if it were possible,
I'd like an experiment in which somebody writes a man
who does everything Ifemelu does. I don't think the first response would be,
"I don't like her." <i>Americanah</i>
was an important novel for you because with the two first novels you felt more like dutiful. Yeah.
-This could be the word? Yeah, I think particularly
with the second novel. <i>With Half of a Yellow Sun</i>, I felt a sense of -
I felt a sense of responsibility. I felt burdened
by my family's history, my country's history.
My own... My own kind of emotional connection
to Biafra. So writing that book was just deeply... it meant very much to me.
Just, it took a lot for me emotionally. And I felt a sense of duty because I thought
I have to get the facts right. Because you know,
it's not just a novel. It's- people read this as history.
People will look at this and for many people,
particularly young Nigerians and young Africans, in general, for them it's going to be the first time that
they're even reading anything about Biafra. So I felt that. But with <i>Americanah</i>,
I was just having a good time. I would stop sometimes
and laugh, ha ha ha. And I actually remember being worried, because I thought is it even normal
to be so amused by your own jokes. I'd be like,
"Oh my god that's funny." And then I'd think should I be worried
about my mental state. Because I.... This is empowerment. To feel proud of ourselves. And not to... I don't want to say. <i>Americanah</i>
was also quite important to me. But I didn't have that sense of duty. I wanted to break the rules, I felt free. I felt free in a way because... You know what it was actually?
Because I could feel. And that brought a kind of freedom. I couldn't afford to feel
with <i>Half of a Yellow Sun</i>. But <i>Americanah</i>,
I was like yup, I'll just do what I love,
I'll do what I want to do. And also I figured nobody
would buy the book but because I was... Why? I thought Americans
are going to be furious because you're not supposed
to write about race in a direct way. In writing about race,
you're supposed to be so subtle. And instead of
actually saying it's race, you're supposed to go round
and round until the reader is confused. And that's the way
to write about race. And all of that is couched
in the "language of complexity." So I didn't do any of that, so I thought
oh my god they will hate this. And I thought
that nobody else would get it because there's a sense in which
It's quite American in many ways. I mean, I think it's about immigration
and leaving home and of course
there's the bit in England but... You know
it's very American in a way. And I kind of thought
Americans will hate it and nobody else will understand it. And... yeah,
but I thought I'll just write it anyway. And of course because I was still getting
royalty cheques from <i>Half of a Yellow Sun</i>, I thought, I can still eat and I can still buy a few shoes. And there was magic
when you wrote the book? Because you always say
that when you write, there's a moment where magic comes. Oh yes, I had moments of magic
with <i>Americanah</i>. It's that feeling of being transported. It's the most magical,
most beautiful thing that happens and it makes me deeply happy. I mean for me really,
writing gives my life meaning. I wouldn't want to be alive
if I couldn't write. And... when it's going well there's
that moment when you forget time. And the characters become alive. And it's a high,
it's really it's like a high. It doesn't happen often enough, sadly. But it did happen quite a bit
with <i>Americanah</i>, yes. -You often say that in fact,
writing chose you. -Yes. -You could not avoid it?
-No. No I... I think of it
as my ancestors giving me a gift that's how I think of it.
I think of it as... as my great-great- great -great
grandparents. You know, all the men
and women who came before me. I, increasingly, I'm... I kind of find comforting
the idea of ancestors. And... I really do think
of my writing as a gift. Obviously, I had to work on it. I mean writing is both magic and craft. So there's the magic
but you have to do the damn work. And I was willing to. I can't imagine
what my life would be like if I.. Writing is my first love.
Writing stories is my first love. And it's really... You know honestly, deep down
it's the only thing I really want to do... I'm happy to be here by the way. But you know if I had a choice, I'd just really rather be in my study,
wearing my pajamas and writing. You work in your pajamas? -Mostly.
-Yeah? -Do you have any routine when writing?
-No. Sadly. I read a story once about
John Cheever who apparently would...
who lived in this big New York apartment and every morning he would shower, put on a suit and go down
to the basement and write. And I read that and thought
really, how exciting, maybe I should do that but I can't. I wake up, I roll out of bed,
you know, I don't shower... And then I try to write and if it goes well that's it.
I mean you know you come... My husband will come back
from work quite late and I'm still in my pajamas wandering
around because the writing went well. If it doesn't go well, I get depressed,
I eat chocolates. I shop online. I find that's very good
for boosting sadness. -Are you writing at the moment,
not now but...? -Can't tell you. Not even that, because I know you don't
like to talk about what you're writing. -Not even that?
-Nope. Okay.
I tried, sorry. I am a superstitious Igbo woman. Okay. In which other ways? I just don't like to talk about... the things that are precious,
that haven't been released to the world. I don't want to talk about,
because you never know. But also because because you know, the more... Actually I think the more honest reason
is that writing involves a lot of anxiety and... and fear. And so, even if I were writing
and I said yes, I'm writing, I suddenly would start thinking am I really.... Is it any good?
It's probably terrible. No I should... So it just becomes
this complicated thing for me. -So let's talk about what
you've all already written. -Okay. Let's go back to <i>Americanah</i>. I have very few minutes
because people are gonna ask questions. Just five more minutes please because I cannot not talk with you
about racism. This is a subject
that you talk a lot in <i>Americanah</i>. In fact, Ifemelu,
the main character, she discovers that she's black
when she arrives in the States. Yes and I think this is true
for many Africans and Caribbeans. For many
non-American black people who have grown up
in communities that are majority black. And also don't have a sense of... I should say that being West African, because it's different for South Africans
obviously because of apartheid and race is such a presence there. And it's different for people from Kenya,
for example, because of the settlers.
And so race in Zimbabwe, right. But Nigeria no. Colonialism was
a terrible, devastating dictatorship. But they didn't stay. And I think we have the massive, loud mosquitoes to thank for that. So every time I get malaria. You know it's very...
malaria is terrible. You're sick but then I sometimes say to myself
but I'm so grateful to you dear mosquito. Because of you they did not stay.
But I think I... It's true though.
It is true. So, I think in Nigeria growing up,
race was just never a part of... So in a strange kind of way, I had read about
apartheid in South Africa, I had read about the U.S. I knew all about Martin Luther King,
and read <i>Roots</i>... But it's it seemed very distant. In Nigeria, I never really thought
of myself as black, I didn't need to.
I thought of myself as Igbo. I thought of myself as Christian. I think those are the two things.
Ethnicity and religion are the two things that really sort of serve
as identifiers for us in Nigeria. And also serve
as the sources of conflict. But not race. And then I went
to the U.S. and suddenly I was black. And it was very strange at first.
And now that I think about it, very uncomfortable. I didn't want to be black at first. And it's because I knew that blackness
came with a lot of negativity. And so now increasingly
in talking about race, I sometimes feel
that we forget that the problem
is not having skin like this. Because skin like this
is gloriously perfect. Honestly I... I really think so.
Right, I mean. I... I can't tell you how if I were
to be born again, I want to be this color. It doesn't crack,
you don't look your age. It's true.
A bit of Vaseline and you're glowing. I mean, come on people. You can wear any color
and it just pops. So I, you know... But that's not the problem. The problem is the people
who think that looking like this means that they
can make assumptions about your intelligence,
about your ability, about your... That's the problem. And so sometimes in talking about race,
particularly in the U.S., it kind of seems to be that
it's up to black people to fix the problem. But it's actually white people
who should fix the problem. Because black people
are like we were just born and somebody had a problem,
you know. But also
my not wanting to be black. I remember a man in Brooklyn. And I'm so ashamed now,
but I think it's important to be honest. A man in Brooklyn
referred to me as "sister." He's you know he was like "sister." I had been in the U.S.
for maybe two or three weeks and I was like, "no, no." I'm not your sister. And now that I think about it, my refusal at first,
to be black is in itself
an indictment of American racism. Because if racism
was not a problem, I would not have been
running away from blackness. But I knew that there were
all of these negative stereotypes. I would watch the news
my first few weeks in the U.S. and it seemed to me that every crime
was committed by a black person. And the way that they were covered
with such indignity. I mean only later
when I started to read and learn, I realized how differently white criminals
are treated from black criminals. And how studies have shown that if you're
a black man with a criminal record and a white man with a criminal record, the white man has a much better
chance of being employed, of all of that. But anyway, so I started reading books
about African-American history because I needed to understand,
I really didn't understand. James Baldwin
was so important to me, because it just kind of
made me start to see. And I started to...
And so, I kind of became black. America forces identity on you.
You don't really have a choice. But the only choice you have is that whether you embrace it or
whether you constantly struggle with it. So I came to the point where
I happily embraced blackness. Where black
has become an identity for me and it's one that that means a lot to me.
It's a political identity. But it's not an identity
that some of my Nigerian relatives share because they haven't left Nigeria. They don't think
in terms of blackness. And with <i>Americanah</i>,
I kind of wanted to write about that. What it means to be
non-American and black. Because for many Americans
it's all just one mass of blackness. You know
black people are just black. There isn't sort of a,
you know a gradation. It's funny
how some white people can't tell that
we have different skin tones, right? So once I went to this event
in a writers thing and... And so there were two of us
black women. And so it was me, and this other woman
who was much darker than I was. And she had very long nails
and I never have long nails. And so this you know really lovely
old white man comes to me and he says, "Did you cut your nails at lunch?" And for a minute
I had no idea what it's talking about. So I was like, "my nails?" And then
I thought, "oh my lord he really..." But really, for me,
it was sort of just a genuine curiosity. I was like, he really can't tell? Because we looked nothing alike. But I think it's that thing. There's a wonderful line from Graham
Greene's novel. Where he says that... it's something about that
for the Colonial Officer in Sierra Leone "the Africans
were just a blur of blackness." I think that's what it is
for some people. But, um. So, yeah. You know who probably can't tell neither?
Donald Trump. -We don't even care.
-Okay. Honestly, I don't think black people
care that he can't tell us apart. But you know...
it seems to me that he might in fact be able to tell
if they are celebrities and if he... Because there's a thing about the man
who is the American president. There's something about it
that's quite pathetic. Because he's... I mean... There's a part of him
that is so pathetically childish. Where he's longing for the approval
of shiny people and shiny things. So I think actually that... Yeah, but it's such a disaster. It's a kind of thing
that one laughs about, because otherwise we would cry. Let's not cry.
Let's hear to the people. If someone has a question. Please keep your questions
brief and quick so that we can have a few. Who wants the microphone? Raise your hands.
First there, then here. Another one here.
We've got three, now four. We'll have some more after.
Over there, please. Good evening. When I received the invitation from a therapist to come here, I spent all day watching the talks
you give all over the world and I'm very proud of you. I'd like her to talk to those of us
who are here from Africa, because she's been to Africa
and she's proud. And finally,
I wanted to ask if she's done a talk like this in front of African men,
given how sexist they are and how few opportunities
they give us? Have I had a chance to talk
about feminism with African men? She... I think, yeah.
if you could do that. Oh, can I do that?
Yeah. I think she considers it
would be really helpful. Look... I think it would be helpful to talk
to all men, Spanish men as well. Yeah.... Honestly... You know I say this because... I think on the continent of Africa, I think sexism is a lot more overt.
It's a lot more in-your-face. And people say
what they think, about women. People will say, "oh you can't be
governor because you're a woman." In the U.S. for example, and I'm going to assume that it's
the same in many European countries. People are not overt.
It's a lot more layered. People have learned that
you're not supposed to say. But I don't think it means
that people are not thinking it. Because you know...
because the evidence is... We just need to look around
societies to see that while the language of that kind
of thinking doesn't really exist much. Practically, you know,
who has power? Who holds positions of economic,
political, even cultural power? Who does domestic work?
Who is expected to do domestic work? Who do we judge harshly
for being ambitious? I think these are things
that cut across cultures. The thing about Africa, for me sometimes, is that it's refreshing
to have it be out in the open. So you know what you're dealing with. So if a woman runs for office
in an African country. There are many people
who will say to her I will not vote for you,
because I will not vote for a woman. But when Hillary Clinton
was running for president in the U.S., there were many people
who were thinking that. They didn't say it but that's
the reason they didn't vote for her. Both men and women,
by the way. So um, to my sister,
your question. I have talked to many African men. Sometimes it doesn't end well. Sometimes it does. I was talking about the Nigerian men
who watched the TED talk. And... generally now what I like to do is, I feel that if I manage
to convince one man, I tell him to go
talk to his friends. Because another sad reality
of the world we live in is that men listen to men. Men are more likely to listen to men
than they are to listen to women - sadly. And so, so it's going to take men
to be part of the work. Which is why it's so important for me
to constantly say that. We need the few good men
to come on board and help us go spread the message,
and then change their brothers. So to your question yes. But there's still
a lot of work to be done. There was another question here. Here. Hello. -<i>Hola</i>.
-Thanks for being here. I'd better say it in Catalan. OK. You talked about
the violence and insults you receive
when you talk about feminism. And you suggested
that there can be violence when you talk about racism
and other sensitive issues. So I've got two questions in one. What is the difference between the violence and insults
you get when you talk about racism and when you talk about feminism? And I'd like to ask you for advice
on what to do with a white feminism that doesn't address
racial inequality. Those are really good questions. I don't think I have enough time
to answer them. So the second one,
really quickly, is I don't know. It's I don't know and it's I probably think that black women
just need to keep speaking and keep pushing back. Keep making it clear that "women"
is not equal to "white women." That "women" is equal to "women". Sometimes and the example I use
is the U.S. because that's where I know. But I find that
the political category of women, when people talk about it,
they actually just mean white women. So they'll say,
"oh women voted for Trump." Yes, white women voted for Trump. Black and Hispanic
and Asian women did not. And that's important to talk about
actually, because the... I think it's an important way
to talk about racism, right. A friend of mine was saying, I don't
understand why would they vote for Trump? And I said because,
white women are also white. It's true and it's important to remember
that there are privileges that white women have, that black women
don't have, because of race. There are privileges that
an educated woman has, of whatever color, that a non-educated one doesn't have,
because of class. And it's important
to acknowledge those. So to the question,
I really don't know what the answer is. But I have to say
that there's a part of me that does believe
in a sort of a movement that has a central unity
but has different... I don't think for example,
that we should start to construct black feminism as being separate
from white feminism. Because I do think that
there are things that connect us. I think being born a woman in the world
no matter your color, no matter your class,
they're just some things that are common. That idea, that you are
socialized to reduce yourself. It happens everywhere - right.
It happens everywhere. And so I think that there are things that...
There ways to connect. But I think it's also important to recognize
the ways that things are different. And a good example
would be to talk about the women 57 or 53 % of white women,
who voted for Donald Trump. I think it's a good example. Because there's a sense in which,
if you're not personally... I don't want to talk about
racism in America. So the second,
the first part of the question. How is the hostility different?
It's equally annoying. It makes me want
to slap somebody's face, no kidding. I can talk about
my own personal experience. I want to talk about,
not strangers, because increasingly the opinions
of strangers don't matter to me. Because I think that life
is too short to battle with ghosts. And if you don't know
who people are, there's just no point
in fighting with them. Which is why I don't read reviews,
I don't read things about me. I don't do Twitter, I don't I don't...
Because it's important for me to have a space that isn't influenced
by the opinions of strangers. But now when it comes
to the people I care about, people I love,
my family and friends. When I talk about racism they get it. And I mean,
anti-black racism. My family gets it.
My friends - my friends of all colors,
so not just my black friends. They get anti-black racism. They never ask me to explain it,
or to prove it. They never say that I'm overreacting. They get it. When I talk about sexism
with the people I care about, I'm very often asked to prove it. I'm asked to... Often I will say... I'm going to use
Hillary Clinton as an example because obviously,
I'm not sure if you can tell, but it's something
that's very close to my heart because
I was devastated when she lost. In talking about Hillary Clinton,
even with progressive, intelligent men, it was often very difficult for them to see that she was being
treated differently. And that different treatment
had to do with her being a woman. It was very difficult for them to see it. And I constantly was in a position
where I was being asked, well prove it. And it gets to a point
where it becomes mentally exhausting. Because
even before I start the conversation, I'm feeling almost defensive. Because I'm expecting to be told,
oh it's not really because she's a woman, you're overreacting,
it's because she's, da, da, da. It happens with my family
and friends as well. When I talk about sexism
in the Nigerian context. I'm often told,
oh you know it's not that serious, it's not that bad. Or, what also happens with
often my male Nigerian friends they will say, "Well but what about
the things that women get?" "What about you know I go to
a restaurant with a woman and I'm expected to pay,
well what about that?" But the whole idea of feminism is that,
that is a problem as well. Because feminism challenges sort of,
the idea of masculinity. Where men have to protect and always pay,
and men can't cry and men have to be strong. Feminism challenges that. But so,
in some ways the hostility I get about sexism
makes me feel lonely. Because I get it from... my circle. With racism I feel supported by
the people I care about. Is it the opposite for you? That's very interesting. It's interesting to me.
That might be because... And I'm going to tell you what your life
is about, because this is what I do. Well that's probably because - - because you're Spanish right?
-No, I'm a Latina. I'm Columbian. -But do you live here?
-Yes, I've been living here for eleven years and trying to tackle racism
on one hand, and trying to defend
that I can wear high heels, in some spaces,
can be you know, like contradictory. It's like, how are you defending that? I want to say okay, I don't know
maybe that's my form of being a woman, because it's attached to a context,
to a particular personal story. And for me
and for some of friends trying to work on racism here.
I think it's the opposite. So maybe... But I think maybe
it's because this is a country... I think many countries in Europe have trouble accepting that there
is such a thing as black Europeans. I feel as though.... So our contexts are different. So my context is one in which,
Nigeria obviously is mostly black
and race is not an issue for us. And in the U.S. race is an issue.
But at least, there's kind of an understanding, that
there is such a thing as a black American, Right? So that it becomes part
of the conversation. I can see how in Europe,
in Spain, in France, in Italy, the idea that a black person
is European is something you know... I can't tell you how many
black Europeans have said to me, "they keep asking me where I'm from." "You know and I was born here. And all my cultural context
are in this country but they keep asking me." And I don't mean to laugh. I don't mean to diminish it,
I think it's a serious thing. But the thing about racism,
is that it can be so absurd. And often I think about the way
that colonialism works right. So even in England they had trouble. That there was a lot of -sort of-
a kind of political shift in which the expression black British
was coined. Because there were people
who felt that English meant "white." So black British became a kind of, sort of,
the middle ground that was safe. Which I mean in some ways
I understand but I thought, why ? There's some black people
who really are English, incredibly, ridiculously English. The kind of black people
I'm talking to and I'm like, oh my lord
I don't even understand you right. I can see how our contexts
are different. And I think that's why. -There was...
-Good luck. The first one here,
who was it? Just one question per person,
please. Just to make it fair for everyone,
as there are so many of us. My question is…
In lots of other talks I've heard, the most widespread problem
is that many people, both men and women, don't understand that women have it harder than men
when they try to do things. My question is how do you start a conversation
with someone, often a woman, who doesn't understand that
women have to work twice as hard to be on stage
or in a position of power? You start by accepting that there are some people
that you will never convince. It's true though,
there are some people who.... Because it's not that they don't know,
it's that they don't want it to change. So you're never going
to convince them. Those are the people
who if you tell them then... There are people like that
about race as well. People who say, oh it's not gender,
it's not race, it's the sky, right. But I think in general,
I believe in stories. I think that the way
to do it is to tell stories. And you just said something about women
having a harder time achieving things. And what I would suggest,
in having these conversations, is to actually use specifics,
use details. There's a human connection to
storytelling that I think works very well. So it's one thing to say misogyny has repressed women
throughout the centuries. Right, and that's true.
But for many people, they just switch off. But if you start to talk about
this particular woman, who went to do this particular thing. And also it really helps to juxtapose, because in many ways
the way that we can diagnose misogyny is to compare it
to how men are treated. So it always helps to to use stories and to use examples. And you know,
I'm going to use the sort of the most obvious and to me
just ridiculous example of recent days. So the idea for example, in a particular country
if you're a woman you cannot drive. That's all. Over there, next question. Sorry? -Yes, but I think he's first.
-Yes, I think it's me. In the novel <i>Americanah</i> the characters are excited
when Obama wins the elections. They're really happy. But what would they say
eight years on? Has the situation in the U.S. changed
in terms of racism? What would the characters say?
I think the characters would be disillusioned and confused and they would probably
be attending neighborhood meetings to discuss
how to vote out the Republicans. How is racism... I think it's important to say
that racism did not disappear
because of Barack Obama. And that it was very naive
for anybody to think... Anybody who knows
the basics of American history, cannot expect one black man
becoming president to somehow make racism disappear. Racism is deeply entrenched.
Racism is America's foundation, and it's going to take a long time. I think what's different is... I remember reading somewhere
that when Obama was president, one in every 80 Google searches
for him also contained the word nigger
or Ku Klux Klan. One in 80. That's...
You know that's remarkable. And I think that a lot of... I think that racism accounts
for much of how Obama's administration
was treated by the opposing party.
I think that. So under Obama there was racism. I think what's happened
with this present administration and with this man
who is the American president is that... You don't have
to hide racism anymore. With Obama, you know people
sort of tried to hide it, and to pretend. But not with this person. Now it's okay,
you can, you know and you can... Now the language of racism
is the language of nationalism. You talk about racism and you couch it
in a language of you being a patriot and of being you know "America first." And I don't know if you know about
the football players, American football, and how somehow
if you're a black American, you don't really have
the same rights as everybody else because you have to be grateful
and shut up. And you can't speak really,
because that's what it is. So I think that's really the way
that it's changed. That it's become... out in the open and it's okay. And there no - there's really... You don't have to worry about
consequences in the way that I think people
kind of worried before. If you have the leader of a country who himself is racist,
then racism becomes okay. We still have time
for two more questions but I can't choose.
Do you want to choose? -No.
-I don't want to be responsible for that. The woman there. Yeah, we need a man.
Yeah. This is true. This is true, we haven't...
We did have a man. Oh yeah. Another woman. -We can have another one.
-Then I go first. -Ok, let's do it?
-Let's do it. So you told us before
about the <i>oge</i> episode, the breaking of the Kola nut. I have a very important question. Have you been made the chief
in Igboland? I see that you know a bit
about Igboland. Have you been? -Yes, my husband is from Anambra.
-Ah where in Anambra? -In Uga.
-Ah, Uga. (speaking in Pidgin) Oh no. You can speak Pidgin to me
but it will be hard. My second question to you would be, were you allowed to speak Pidgin
when you were a child? And have you ever thought about writing in Pidgin? -No.
-Because I've heard you talking about
why you don't write in Igbo, but I've never heard about Pidgin. Well, I don't write...
I do write. I write Igbo well, and I am going to write in Igbo. And so, it's not so much that... It's simply that because
we are educated in English in Nigeria. And Igbo people in particular,
cannot read Igbo, in general. Igbo people read English. Pidgin - I wasn't expected to speak Pidgin
because Pidgin is also... Pidgin is gender and class based
in Nigeria. Pidgin is very boy,
in my part of Igboland. I think it's sort of, in... in the Niger Delta region Pidgin
is kind of more like a <i>lingua franca</i>. People speak Pidgin even at homes. But growing up Pidgin was not just
sort of something that boys did, but it was considered low class. And so... to even speak Pidgin at home.
I mean that's inconceivable. It's funny I was just talking to my father
a few days ago and I was teasing him and I said,
"daddy do you even understand Pidgin?" And he said, "a little bit." And I said, "can you speak ?
"And he very quickly said, "of course not." You know he's a professor
and of course he doesn't speak Pidgin. Which I find hilarious, because in some ways
it's also a way to survive in Nigeria. So, no Pidgin doesn't even
really interest me in that way. It's writing in Igbo, that interests me.
Not Pidgin. And Pidgin is something...
obviously I can speak. Because I have to speak
in certain situations, especially when a policeman
stops me on the road. "Oh God, how you dey, life?"
that kind of thing. But in general it's not really
a language I speak with anyone. So it's not natural to me. And have they made me a chief ? They were supposed to,
two Christmases ago but I couldn't go back
because I was sick. Maybe this year. it's open and I already know my title :
<i>Ada diora'mma</i>. By the way for people
who don't understand, it means the next time I come
to Barcelona, you all have to bow when I...
I'm kidding, I'm kidding. I think we already had a man. I want to tell a very quick story about a study
that somebody told me about. So it was a primary school teacher
- elementary school in the US. And he wanted to do an exercise
on gender because he had noticed
that when girls started to talk, the boys would talk over them. And so he decided to keep a note of and decided to call on girls
to speak. Because the boys
were always speaking. And he said he did this for two days. And suddenly
the boys started to complain and the boys said,
oh you never ask us to speak. But he said that's not true. It's just because now,
I ask as many girls as boys. But because you're so used
to dominating in this space, you see that as injustice to you,
but it's just equality. And I'm saying this as preface to say
that we've already asked one man and men always speak in the world.
So a woman now please. We need to balance things out. There's a woman. Hi, it's a pleasure to meet you,
to see you. I'm a black Spanish woman born in Madrid
but lived in Catalonia all my life. And I'm speaking,
just verbally wanted to tell you that for the past few years
here in Barcelona especially, in Madrid, in Catalonia, there is a whole movement of
African Catalan Spanish people trying to find our own identity. Spanish Catalan or whatever. But what I find as a Spanish woman, is that sometimes I have to be
the speaker of my whole race. Do you feel like that as a writer,
as a black writer and an African writer? How do you feel about that? I don't,
because I refuse to. The people
I know that their expectations... That people who know
very little about Africa... Now that I'm widely read, I know that there are many people for whom
my book is the only introduction to Africa. And the people who still today
ask me things about, places I... You know just because it's Africa,
doesn't mean I know anything about it. I mean there's so much about Nigeria
that I don't know. What people expect me...
You know you're an African, so why don't we discuss
the problem in Zimbabwe. Yeah, and I'm like no, I don't really want
to discuss the problem in Zimbabwe. And I understand that but it's also
about how one chooses to react to it. I push back all the time. I don't carry that as a burden because
it's not something I have accepted. I do not represent Africa.
I am a very happy African but I don't represent Africa.
And Africa is incredibly diverse. And even Nigeria, there are people who have said to me
oh you represent your country. And I said
you need to go back to Nigeria and see how many people
do not agree with me at all. Okay,
so I can't possibly represent Nigeria. But I understand what you're saying. And I think it's something that
a lot of black people experience when they're in spaces
that are majority non-black. You kind of become the black person
and everybody turns to you to explain. It's as though black people
have a secret society of blackness where we all kind of know everything
about one another but we don't. And It's like that American man
who could not tell that I looked nothing like
the other black woman. Can we take... there's a woman,
who just was very... one last question.
Yeah there's a woman who... She was pushing. Thank you so much
for coming to Barcelona. So my question
is more like, the writing, creativity. Not like really feminism
more like the writing process. So I have my mom here,
someone who I really admire. And I think that her stories, like everything
she's been through is just amazing. And I know you as an amazing writer. Is the writer born
or is the writer made? I'm not a writer.
I write things that I feel, and I think about
but I've never written any story. But I don't want
my mom's stories to go without being written
or being shared with the world. So I don't know how, like you might
want to write a story for her or how do you make the writing process,
like do we write together? And I always tell mom
you have to write this. You have to tell people about your story,
you have to be motivated. She's an amazing motivator and I don't know how
but like is there a way to say we're gonna write the story today,
we're going to do this. And how do you create a story,
how do you choose the characters? It's a personal story because it's her life, but I don't know anything about writing.
I have a Youtube channel. Yes, I've made videos
about me inspiring youth and scholarships because I like to travel
and making people get information. But I don't know how to help her
to get that story outside. Because I think
she would motivate so many people, because I am who I am today
because of my mom. And I'm Yoruba. I'm Nigerian, Yoruba. I was born in Nigeria
but we came to Spain when I was ten. So I'm African-European,
as you said before. I want to say
how lovely it is to hear a woman talk about admiring her mother.
I think it's such a beautiful thing. Stories... I think you should
first of all just record them. Have her talk and record them,
so you have that material. And then writing
is something that you can learn. If you care about it enough
you can do it. So the question about whether
writers are born or made? I think both. There's some writers
who start very early and there's some writers
who come to it when they're older. I think maybe the one thing that
is consistent is that they care about... I mean, you have to care enough.
Writing it's not easy. You have to care enough
to dedicate the time to it. When I was writing
<i>Purple Hibiscus</i> for example I was an undergraduate. There were many things I was
very happy not to do. I didn't hang out because I wanted the time to write.
Because writing mattered. You have to devote time to it.
Writing sucks your time. And my sense is that you're not ready yet,
to tell your mother's story and when you're ready you will do it. I was kind of hoping, that when you said
you had a YouTube channel, that it was about natural hair. So I was disappointed
that it was about motivating people. That's the end of the talk,
now she'll be signing books. She'll do it here,
you can queue up along here…
Wait a moment, please! Please. Laie will be selling books
over there. But first, we must thank Chimamanda.
Thank you for coming. Thank you. Thank you. Translation : Eleanor Staniforth
Subtitling : sublimages.com
