Former Royal Marine & Special Forces Veteran on Failure, Fear and Military Life

we were poor soldiers both been shot at both been shooting back I do stuff where I can see [ __ ] up against disease in chemical businesses like the gas attacks came in they were landing and you never find out what what's right and what's wrong Brazilian I don't particularly like that word and so I was I ended up selling gas and electricity the thing that I take away most from the core is that is the commando spirit right hey we uh sat opposite each other we don't get to do this that much do we we don't get to well if you're in the pub we're not asking each other specific questions no we don't get to ask the questions that actually matter like where we find out about each other why did you join the Marines at the age of 16 okay you've started I joined the knee I joined at 16 I think because firstly I wasn't great at school I wasn't academic I did enjoy the outdoors and I suppose it was a natural thing to do because my dad was in the Marines although I don't remember it but it just remember him telling me stories it sounded fun how wrong was I but anyway it was more to do with that that was the sort of you know deciding factor but I did you know I grew up in Luton I wasn't doing very well I was probably gonna get myself into trouble wouldn't at the age of 16 I had the presence of mind to somehow had the presence of mind to decided I need to do something else and so the Marines was a natural course you know I wanted to challenge myself and I did and enjoy it do you don't I enjoy training I feel like 16 right so you don't have anything else to a guest it based on well no other than playing out in the in the fields is a lad you know I didn't yeah you're right what do you base it on dad was remember when the you know when you join up and there's someone there who's 24 whatever and they've had a job before so they can you know when you're scraping the floor hanging out on some sort of speed March and they're like I could be in back in there back in the garage now doing some working on tools it could be doing another job but it's 16 you're like you're not gonna go I wish I was back on the paper run you've got no other temptation because essentially that's your first job earning money apart from my paper round which was you know as any paper and was back in the day pins I was being earning as a young six it's a junior marine at 16 I think as earning probably a hundred quid a month it was awesome well it was it yeah a pint of milk a day as well just to build me bone spring [ __ ] you made to drink it in front of the truth so we joined round about the same time where the where did you go to what was your first job I ended up doing a what was called an S freeze course so I was a signaler in the Marines to be removed so then I've been from training to do a specialization course where I learn how to use radios and talk on radios and bits and pieces like that which it was quite technical when I suppose for me is a longer non-academic it was a reasonably demanding I didn't really want to do it I got pinged for it which is a you know what it means but it makes you think you mean it means you've been involuntarily volunteered to do something because there's that there was a need for that amount of that for those sort of skills to be filled so I went and did that and then all four went into the wide rule marines joined units bounced around doing a job that I sort of did enjoy but didn't enjoy and I pretty much did that for a few years and basically grew up in that time yeah I did grow up yeah but I didn't you know I did a lot of my first 10 years we've spent traveling the world doing exercise is pretending to be a soldier training a lot playing sport getting drunk having a laugh so you basically had a career of to half seven years yeah you had like you did all the training stuff for the first part yeah the second part was hardcore [ __ ] fighting basically it was yeah but what about you what did you do well basically joined up same as you 16 so I spent I was slightly different in a way that I'd spent all my youth outside you know climbing playing up in trees and up in the west coast of Scotland so for me my twin Ross there was not much for us to do run their work wise but we wanted to work in the outdoors so this koreas office does the door swings open you go and have a look in there and it's different jobs Army Navy Air Force and then Ross and I were both bang dead set on joining the Corps joining the Marines basically and I always remember that train gently down yeah 16 all the way down to the limbs then probably the first time really add I suppose left left home to do anything and and now just remember getting off at the train station thinking what the hell have I done the dough leader with his BL Joe leader with his with his stick pays another couple of lads there and just whack you in the balls and that's you say joined up obviously went to 40 commando became a sniper was in Rocky trip there which you were in as well yeah I joined it layer wind so hang on a minute he's just brushed over the sniper thing which is quite an achievement in the military let alone the Marines is like the wrong Marine snipers course is apparently the hardest one to pass in the world and how old were you when you did it I was just ton 19 I think but it's quite a long course in it yeah I mean it's a difficult course anyone anyone that's done that knows that it's I mean that's talking about just the training for it is like the most self and just pressure you can you can give yourself there's no one shouting at you telling you to that you've got to go faster harder you know you'll just sat there and you're trying to cram your brain full of 300 different types of weapons that you've got to know inside out back to front little do you remember the little armoured personnel vehicles the lead ones you like Oh in the grass need after self-id them in the knobs times but yeah I mean it was that was yeah that was a tough course and it's self-induced you know you've got eight people on the course and and you know me at best as you know I'm a verage it pretty much everything I do and they self scraping my way he's not scraping my way through that and then and then getting out into the wider world of the core but I would say I don't know it seemed like in the jobs that we do now out of you know I spent ten years in the Marines but there I don't take away any of the skills like technical skills like how to how to tie a knot or how to do something with ropes the thing that I take away most from the Corps is that is the commando spirit courage determination unselfishness cheerfulness in the face of adversity if for some reason that stuck with me for all days do you find that same yeah so I talk I've been thinking recently about you know people love people love this word resilience than they at the moment and then so I've like tried to explore that and try to explore where mine came from and where other people that I hang out with where it came from and I think it is come it comes from the raw Marines and how they develop young lads individuals or young people nowadays and it's not like brainwashing but it's sort of is when you walk around well they tried to build a culture around exactly what you just said when you walk around limp stone which is the commando training center which is a center for we're all wrong Marines will go and train the commando spirit is plastered everywhere all in the gym it's in in the training theaters all those different places and it is courage determination unselfishness and cheerfulness in the face of adversity and it is everywhere you look and it's and it's drilled into your mind that that's what you need to develop within it and it just becomes you become conditioned into that way of thinking that whenever you're in a hard situation and you are put into hard situations deliberately in training that's in the back your mind and you're just thinking to yourself I need to have courage I need to have my own self courage I need to have determination this is hard I'm not gonna get it done without determination and then they teach you to be funny to a certain extent you know to sort of laugh and I think that's where it's come from it that for me joining the Marines at 16 was the best thing I did because I was at that point in my life where my mind was probably easily manipulated for one of a better way to describe it do you think that that that time your time in in the Corps and Special Forces has made you more resilient less resilient what does that mean to you being resilient brazillian I don't particularly like that word but I would say along with how we're brought up in the Marines in the beginning along with the life experiences that that career throws you into then as you go on and you become older and you develop you go through rocky times you know you have relationships that come and go injuries that come and go you know sad times good times all those things helped build into resilience so there's better ability to get back up off your ass once you've been banged on but I think a lot of it as well as like I went through a real you know sketchy point but all that stuff that I learn over a period of time when I eventually had the presence of mind to look at myself and look at how I was feeling emotionally it helped me get through that general mean yeah yeah let's talk about obviously we were both soldiers both been shot at both been shooting back what like to you how do you deal with that because that's that's terrifying isn't it like can you explain how terrifying that is it is terrifying it's weird because you spend like I spent we just discussed it I spent 10 years in the Marines not really just practicing to go to war and all that time you're a young lad that's doing a job or you're trying to do a job and you want it to have purpose and you're wishing yourself to be in a situation where you getting shot and then you get shot and you're like what the [ __ ] and it's like a surge of adrenaline and you're like wow I've just that's it you know a versa myth bloody combat cherry and all this sort of stuff but it is it's petrifying and then you're involved in a two-way range where you're shooting back at other people when it's like also this all about and you become you can become addicted to that adrenaline but the fear is that intense I think you have to embrace it as opposed to try to push it away and is that something no that that fits it's you know from my limited experience also you have the initial fear of what's what's happening you deal with it's muscle memory it's the same as anything else you crack on you get through that situation is the vent of time after that a point of reflection which then makes you more scared or or you know you more worried or puts you in a state of distress not that I remember not until a little bit later on probably towards the end of my career where you get a bit older and you realize how fragile we all are really but I mean I wasn't really I never really thought about it and I never really concentrated too much on it I was trying to live more in the moment but I've I'm interested in your tape because obviously you were set up on a ship sailing out to Iraq weren't you mM optelec you know the second invasion or the interact with with 40 commando and you know I think that was 2003 so you know it's quite a long time ago for me but that I suppose dealing with that excitement adrenaline fear and it's in no way comparison to to you there's been fatigued by over the years but certainly you know for me when it's good then there it's like you've trained all your young adult life for this very very moment like a firefighter that wants to go and put out fire and then when you're in that situation where someone else is firing back at you or your own situation where you don't have a huge amount of control at that point in my limited experience and that is you know for me that was that was pretty scary in is I suppose through the years all the different jobs that I've done it's always something that I can look back on and think is probably not going to get that bad until I start working with you again and tell us that working with you again working with with narcos but I'm just obviously so not everyone is going to be getting shot at and dealing with such extreme ends of it but with regards to combat in your experience and is there any take out points about dealing with fear that you've come up with yeah I think one of the the main one is when you're in those situations is to acknowledge the emotion that's inside you like I remember being in a ditch getting shot at that's being petrified being getting shot at for a long time and this is this is further on into my career now as well and I'm like I can remember being petrified and being like like you know I don't really want to get out of this ditch but having to have a word myself and what it was was me looking at the fact that I was being fearful then realizing that I was allowed to be fearful because it's a scary situation and then taking control of my own emotion and not letting it take charge of me where I become a flapping headless chicken so you basically like accept the situation that you're in yeah because it's not gonna change it's not going to change unless you do something about it so you then have to take direct action to be able to get yourself oh yeah so it's better to to make a decision even if it's the wrong decision and as opposed to sort of lying there and or or giving up yeah I reckon I mean what was your take if I'm interested because you went into Iraq in 2003 this is something that I've not really experienced in my career did you get like gas attacked and stuff like that was there though sort of like we warning yeah we yeah we had quite a few times there was there was obviously bombs come in and we had the the gas attacks which I can't remember know whether they were bonafide you know basically you know what it's like the gas attacks came in they were landing and in the camp that we were in in Kuwait but you have to take that action that that you've been that you've been gassed and I just remember that when that happened obviously not in direct line of where the bombs are coming down but you're then with a respirator on and you're NBC certain thing like you can't even see what the danger is there yeah and I haven't actually then felt like that again until I started I did the job in in West Africa with with Ebola and that was the same like this an unseen enemy it's yes terrifying see I always I always I do stuff where I can see [ __ ] against disease in chemicals we've both been in the military we're not in the military anymore we've pretty much made that transition now into what people call civilian life I come join you this question and I ever asked it before what was your transition like rocky [ __ ] funny with you know we were just chatting earlier that you know this is you know you're leaving it's not just a job it's not just the nine-to-five is it it's like your life your life is 24/7 in the military that's you know that's just the way it is it's a way of life it's not a job - then leave I you know I struggled hugely when I left of just nothing that happened externally to me but it was a feeling of not being worth anything anymore and you know it to be sort of late 20s at this point or you know and having a feeling of being worthless and and not part of a bigger a bigger thing it was you know incredibly difficult and I you know I've flown that there did four or five six different jobs the job that I wanted to do when I left was working the outdoors and you know I just couldn't make that work I was getting qualified but I couldn't make it work financially and and so I was I ended up selling gas and electricity talk a little bit about how that job finished so it so basically you know you come back from from being out in Middle East in the sort of you leave the the Marines behind and I think for jobs later I'm selling gas and electricity instead of going round what you're trying to do is convert people from their current supplier to the next supplier or two-year supply and and it was it was sales I'm useless at sales and I just remember you know I'd been doing it six months I was working on Commission I hadn't been paid anything so I'm absolutely broke I'm destitute at that point and not feeling good about myself mentally physical fitness had gone completely out the window because I was driving for two hours to get to town to then go around and get the door slammed in my face and yeah nd badly I ended up good morning I had the door slammed in my face and it was it was just the last time that was going to happen what happened yeah I am through my clipboard down to basically my uniform off in the drive and then had to come back into his drive and get my keys it was pretty and the one thing that I'll say about and everyone's different when they when they leave is that for me I floundered for quite a few years and it was wasn't until I took charge of the situation myself you know I was kind of waiting for someone else like the big job to come along and someone else in the military you get looked after and I kind of felt like you know I was waiting for you know to be looked after and actually that doesn't happen I would you deal with that anger because I can relate to the anger thing when you leave what do you mean what did you do when you so you've been out I didn't it was not dissimilar I mean I didn't sell gas and electric but you know I left after a reasonably long career and lost my identity and didn't feel like I belong to anything I was you know I worked in a restaurant then I went and did a project managers job for facilities management company where I didn't know what I was doing and I was not fulfilled and I was lying to myself and I could feel anger towards people in society and you know you think about why when I was in the military I was in charge of millions of pounds worth of equipment I was in charge of men I was you know you've given a lot of responsibility it's like that scene from first blood it was over Stallone when he's losing his [ __ ] it's true though yeah you've given so much responsibility and then it's nothing it's gone and and it was that was a revelation a point where you then realized that that you have to be the captain of your own ship you have to you have to set sail in the direction that you want or was it quite off I think what you just said there summed it up in an in a nanosecond was you have to be the captain of your own ship no any no one's gonna come and pilot it for you it takes a bit of time to realize that because you spend so much time in the military where you're in a bubble being told you don't have to pay for anything you know the doctors are free the dent is free they tell you when to go and see those people when you're needed to you know very good whether it's getting vaccinated get your teeth checked out you know all those little things you don't have to do tax returns because it's done for you it's all done in the pace it's like admin that lining admin which is the stuff that gets on top of you and when you leave and you've got to be honest to yourself about what you need to do and how you need to do it and that's I think the big thing for me was finding purpose as soon as I found purpose in what it was and and stop lying to myself about what it was that I wanted to do and I got background to the adventuring side of life which is you know it's what I am its Who I am as soon as I got background to that I started to become successful at it you know the things that I was turning my hand to and it's because I think I found purpose exactly but when I think if I know as you're talking there now I'm thinking back to you and what you were going through and what you were doing and I remember it you you you you were basically stop lying to yourself about what you could and couldn't do you decided to do something that you loved but you still persevered with it didn't just happen overnight you didn't just find something that you loved and then everything fell into place because like remember that you were still dabble in stuff that you weren't too keen on it was it was a long it was a long switch yeah you know that and that's why you know for me joining the Marines was the best thing I ever did because it gave me that drive and determination and you need that because it's been you know it's been 10 12 years of me doing this job now to get to where I am you know I could have easily lost it and you know it gets hard you know I'm doing one two jobs a year trying to make all these ends meet and and you're digging deep too but it's it's that sense of purpose it's that direction as soon as you find what that is and and and like you say there it's it's about commitment it's about chucking everything at something you know delayed gratification doing something knowing that you're not going to get that return for five years ten years whatever it is but the other thing is is while you've been talking I've realized that once you get yourself into that right mindset into like I'm gonna do what I love it's gonna take a bit of time I need a bit of grit and determination but once you get yourself into that mindset the anger sort of starts to subside as well I'd remember when I felt angry and when I look back on it now with the hind side which is a great thing you've got beef with society because they don't understand what you're being free that's not their fault no and then when you realize that and you like what you know what I need to you know it's not personal I did what I did it's part of who I am but now I'm part of society and I need to fit in with them and I know like you say there's lots of other people going through their own version of beef whatever that is the hard times troubles that they've had so yeah life is difficult for everyone you need you need a bit of grit and determination but where you need the most is to give yourself that your own headspace to work out what's right for you do you say that the first thing that the first thing you've got to do is basically have a plan or make a plan because if you don't have a plan you effectively going to become part of someone else's right yeah you do need to have some form of plan you at least need a goal maybe not a plan to because at least a goal and then keep that keep focus on that goal keeping the back your head and then the plan is take every day as it comes and you enjoying civilian life like I've been obviously have been you know am i from from there from the corn all the way through now are you enjoying civilian life yeah I am now I mean to be honest it was thanks to you you know I had a rough ride like you did but I didn't bail you out you just persevered I'd persevered with a few different things and then I was really struggling when some of the jobs that I wanted to do weren't really coming about and then you threw me some work and that takes time no doesn't it - like establish get yourself sorted know what you want to do trial a few things fail drastically at them and that were not you put me I mean we all did everything you know I came out and thought I was gonna do one thing then that failed before was gonna do another thing hate it it's I failed and it's not about the failure it's never about the failure the fail it failure is a good thing it's it's about how you pick yourself back up and go again if anything that failure Expedia its you know the next set of decisions the next yeah direction that you're going to just part of the journey it's a fun part the journey you're actually finding out about yourself you're actually learning a lot more about yourself than if you were sort of in your eyes succeeding all the time you never find out what what's right and what's wrong Toby [ __ ] out exactly [Music]

Channel: Men’s Health UK

Views: 517,843

Rating: 4.9599442 out of 5

Keywords: Men's Health, mens fitness, mental health, mental strength, aldo kane, jason fox, royal marines, military, sbs, ex military, military life, sas, sas who dares wins, men's heath uk, veteran, who dares wins, men's mental, mens mental health, marines, talking heads, documentaries, interviews, navy, army, iraq, british army, Marine, SAS, Special Forces veteran, Royal Marine sniper, Royal Marine, Life lessons, Life guidance, Health & Wellbeing, SAS Who Dares Wins, Ant Middleton

Id: mmaH1c25C8k

Length: 25min 44sec (1544 seconds)

Published: Fri Mar 13 2020