FBI INFILTRATES THE WOLF'S DEN! Jordan Belfort Wolf's Den Podcast with Agent Coleman

okay I operated when I was an agent under what I called a suit of armor theory you and all of your henchmen thought you were in a suit of armor all right what you guys didn't realize was I'm a stereotypical government parasite okay and all I needed to do was get into your suit of armor somehow fine any crack and once I'm in the topic if I effect i infect you when you die [Music] hey Jordan Belfort here in the wolves stand the wolf was in the wolves den now listen you guys give me all these requests you gotta have this guy on you gotta have that guy right get all those requests right but there's one request that I get three times more than any other request so I had to beg him because someone had tremendous respect for and actually like very much as a human being which probably will shock and you see but it is none other than former Special Agent Gregory Coleman of the FBI the man who got me indicted thank God cuz it's thanks to you by the way that I have this amazing life now because my life was utter his great as it seemed in the movie and I won't deny it it was fun and glamour it [ __ ] it was just terrible so you did me a favor I didn't realize at the time on what kind of did I have a let me just get a few things out of the way he's not gonna answer these cuz I mean I'm gonna ask these questions so let's get the five no comments where are you from no comment are you married no comment how old are you and they'll comment any kids no comment how are you so no coming up done right perfect okay good so we got the other way we can save time alright let's get into the good stop now right I have one question for you yes I you're not with the FBI anymore right no I'm tired it is how many years were you with the FBI just short of 26 25 years eight months all in New York City cool when I was in here's my question when I was indicted I pulled out of my house now you would be staked out what you fellows me someone else I think in a hotel somewhere and so yeah the FBI stake that in my house and buy some hotel right you I think you were the other locations and then there was other people there I pulled out of my house of my drawer my car my way daughter yes someone said excuse me hey mr. Bellefleur from the FBI you probably want to go back inside we don't want to do this in front of your daughter I was like wow thank you let me go and they didn't handcuff me they let me go back inside they said please just bring your daughter upstairs I did that came back and said thank you for that your honor they couldn't have been nicer and more respectful no guns vests crazy [ __ ] why is it if something changed or I mean I know I'm not I'm not a violent guy but there's a lot of non-violent people now that you hear about when they get raided by the FBI knows in this whole like notion that it's with guns and that's yet I was treated with nothing but respect and was that because of you or is that actually the common practice of the affair what's that about well I think common sense has to go into every one of these arrests right you're a nine nonviolent white-collar crime arrests and I think probably the one you're referring to most is Roger stone right we all wanted man afloat and man afford yeah well Madoff forts a little bit different because man afford also involved a search warrant on his home ok but let's take the Roger stone arrest for example do I think that that was a normal way of doing no complete overkill unnecessary way exceeded the minimum requirements and resources that needed for that arrest that's a political showing of force there and clearly leaked to CNN by by people who were involved in it I think that's a waste I think they didn't needed that Roger stone is even the kind of guy who could be called up to have him voluntarily surrender he's not going anywhere he knew he was under the microscope for a long time I mean I I just think that was very embarrassing for the bureau if I were still in the bureau at the time and I had to participate in that rest I would have been very embarrassed that the amount of resources used now look the people who pulled you aside we were we we had gotten intelligence that you were having one of your multi-level marketing meetings that are not going and we just saw at the end of that will grab you there and we'll take you in and so I just placed some people in your home in case you happen to get there before we got there and and and they handled it properly I mean that's the key to the FBI right we do things in a respectful way you know I have a very good friend who works with the Canadians a Royal Canadian Mounted Police and he has a saying he says you know look it's our job to take away the guy's liberty right for committing the crimes it's not our job to take away his dignity so treat people with respect look if in the process of us arresting you you disrespect us well then we can always ratchet it up we can always become ugly right why start out ugly you don't need to got it okay so is more political these days right yeah it's far more political far more political let's we'll get to all that let's go back to the beginning at the you and I because everyone wants to tell the story so great i knit in the book i knit them you OCD and and the reason I named you OCD is because basically no one wanted my case like you saw something was going on you knew it okay and we'll get to that in a second but I think how many prosecutors the US stories a USA's did you go through said there's nothing there I don't stand it what's the day how many did you go through look we opened the case in mid to late 1992 you're already up and running since what 1989 yeah you've got a you've got a significant head start and what's interesting that the public doesn't know is when you started your business we didn't do securities fraud cases the biggest really threat that you faced was lawsuits from the SEC which you were already facing right you were sued but it was in early 1992 that the FBI finally put together a group of agents to do nothing but Wall Street related crimes like [ __ ] Lucknow yeah and you're one of the early cases at gate that came out of inside training before all right that's was like yeah I mean that was done by postal inspectors with Michael Milken and Drexel Burnham and you know I Ivan Boesky those guys that was actually and that that was I think part of the thinking that the bureau put into it that the FBI put into and said look you know this is something that's it has criminal statutes here we ought to be working this kind of case and then they they put the group together to do that all right hold up for a moment we'll hear from our sponsor and come right back all right ready guys he's a great one you're gonna laugh zapier dot-com right all right I'm gonna inmate I refused I will endorse products that I don't try okay i won a tube that were like just a second it's a feminine hygeine broad thing wouldn't try it no but I don't like to endorse stuff unless I know about so when the zapier came to me I'm like I don't you know what zap your is oh my god marketer I'm not gonna recommend it's like a business applications and I'm not gonna recommend it so I don't 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of the stuff but everybody loves it at my company seriously so I didn't know what it was so I was gonna say I'm not doing it I don't know it's right I don't know what it is it really does I'm not a tech guy all right I mean I mean unless you like you're one of those nerds from like you know junior high school it back when I was kid no one liked this stuff don't even went near it right now everyone knows where that's right so let me just look at this paper and tell you some facts about zappy okay basically it's the easiest way to automate all your work it connects business software and handles things for you so you can focus on the things that matter most all right all I can tell you is this my company loves it they told me you have to endorse this company we use it for a whole bunch of different stuff it's really cost-effective it makes a huge difference in our business all right so what more can I say all right so let me give you the particular here all right there's 4.5 million people using it they average they say 40 hours per month that's a lot of time time is money 40 hours per month in productivity using zapier all right unless you instantly engage with leads send it to a CRM a spreadsheet then notify your team so they can act fast right so all the stuff that we do every single day with zapier I didn't know I just thought it was someone you know I have like salesforce.com right but salesforce.com doesn't speak to a lot of theirs you need all these little programs in the middle vApp here's the one that connects everything together you're probably looking and saying of course I know it's a B I guess then when you're old like me you don't know anymore I'm behind it dies right anyway it was a pretty funny story right what else can I say about it right all I could say is that my company loves it we use it for all this different stuff and apparently as I'm here from everyone here they're saving a lot of time using zapier all right I got the good news you all 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I had is I said I had contested the crime down to this portion of flipping units and rattles which made it very difficult for the SEC to penetrate that because unless the threat even you had primary how many doors did you knock on the beginning you OCD you were literally I mean how many people is let's take a morning yet again let's address the OD OCD first I actually don't mind that moniker it doesn't bother me I prefer to think that I'm just passionate about my work or in the alternative I'm just too stupid to know when to give up which I'm okay with also but I believe in my work I mean for me I'm passionate about my work I've always been passionate about it even you know in the very beginning and at the very end I mean I never lost that passion for what I did but I think it's important to remember - there's a difference between being passionate and being obsessed okay and I was never obsessed it's not personal for me I don't think I mean look you and I have spoken since you you got out of jail we talked and and I think people in the public was sort of surprised by that right but for me it was never personal for you it's you know your job was to steal money and not get caught my job was to catch you right and if I was better I catch you and if you're better then you get away with it right and by the way you almost got away with it right because the answer sort of your second question we went through five prosecutors in six years right opened the case in 92 we picked up a lot of people along the way but your arrest was I believe in a note and November so say number 98 yeah so we're talking six years I went through five prosecutors and why was that well there's the turnover needed this is new york new york is a springboard for private practice right these attorneys come in they're making a hundred and fifty grand a year for the government and to get three four years maybe five years of experience and then they can go into private practice and make two million dollars get big signing bonuses take the knowledge that they've had from working with the government and go out and start private careers so it was very difficult yes it was difficult starting over also remember I said we started in 1992 which means there was no institutional knowledge at the US Attorneys offices about how to prosecute securities cases SEC had been doing it for years but not the US Attorneys offices or even at the FBI some of the aggressive tactics that the FBI will use today to go after for example insider trading like wiretaps all right okay you weren't getting wiretap in 1992 you weren't getting him in 1993-94 there were things that I proposed against you for your case your investigation that the FBI shot down that they would completely accept now its absence tough for example when you used to run not necessarily used specifically but they would run bachelor parties from Long Island and come through Manhattan pick up the prostitutes and go to Atlantic City to the casinos right I had people who were feeding me information about when those events were going to happen I can go to the bus company I can substitute an FBI agent for the bus driver I can get a court order to get CCTV on the bus right when you get to the casinos I can sit and interview the prostitutes while you guys are in gambling and drinking and today that the boxes like that today they wouldn't as long as I had the evidence which I had then they would sign off on real Rob but back then they were very conservative they wanted to make sure and and I understand you want the program up and running you wanted to get some experience you want to get some successful prosecutions under your belt but today I mean it would be completed yeah the one other thing the other big change huge and this is a gigantic change is digital I went physically through reams and reams and reams of paper tons and tons of paper I would blue sheet information for those who don't know you know you go to clearing firms and I asked for all the trades that were done by the that was clearing school debris letter they would send that yeah yeah and and I would get a box full of the green and white paper with the sprocket holes on the side and you know what dot-matrix printer would go and feed it into the box and I would sit there and go with my scissors in you know government pencil and at now I I could put terabytes worth of terabytes worth of data into an Excel spreadsheet not even a fancy program within 30 minutes I can tell you who all the bad guys are and who all the victims are it's that much easier now and I don't even have to wait for the mail because it'll be sent to me and encrypted email you throw it into Excel and you're going Iran all right just hold that thought for one moment we're gonna pay the bills here with the sponsor and come right back alright ready for this one biz counsel you're gonna love this right listen I know business owners listen I did a small business owner I've been a big business owner right in every big business thoughts office a small business when you're in an individual you're really really small you know you're just getting started yeah you know this LegalZoom right and you could do I kind of do-it-yourself stuff right I don't really recommend you do that as a business owner that's really more for an individual honestly but you know you can kind of a kit with LegalZoom I guess right but the truth is it's very dangerous all right because it's a small business owner I'm just telling you mark my words is that if you don't do things right legally you'll protect yourself we call that papering transactions papering contracts if you don't protect yourself you don't someone that really knows what's what you're gonna end up on the wrong side of some equation a lot sooner than you thinking I gotta tell you the best money in this department legally suspended upfront that being said hiring a lawyer cost a lot of money for this stuff yeah you know the old one my lawyers on retainer I don't care what it cost me you know I'll sue you you feel like you know all my big companies well they have lawyers on retainer right so like did this huge advantage right well what if you could have a lawyer on retainer imagine that imagine having the ability to have that sort of clout that's sort of not to know that when you enter into transactions like you have your lawyer on retainer that can review it make sure you're protected things go all right you got someone that's covering your ass so to speak right now if I told you you could get that done for some ridiculously low figure price say I'm crazy and normally I would never even endorse something like this because I would say it's impossible but here's the deal the guys that came up with this idea they are the creators of LegalZoom these are the guys so now they've picked it up a notch for that small to medium sized business owner that wants to have a lawyer on retainer to look at contracts to advise them to hand make sure things are handled correctly write a service like this should cause what thousands of dollars thousands a month of course right imagine only $89 a month to have a law it seems like it's impossible right so I was I was very skeptical but I checked it out it's for real it's the guys that cracked the code for the individual now for the small business owner right so we get just eighty nine thousand unlimited consultations with an attorney dedicated to you it's ridiculous all right then we give a question today tomorrow next month you have your lawyer on retainer but it's only $89 it doesn't quite seem possible but hey that's what they do right so again let me give you some more specifics yet so for my listeners only it's only for being on this podcast right anything ridiculous right how about free the first month how about that they're so confident in the value of what they're giving because I mean the value is just idiotic be ridiculous they didn't let you check it out for free okay so here's what you got to do all right you go to biz cancel dot-com slash wolf you get your first month for free all right I mean honestly plus you get two free contract views you're in depth contract abuser right think about a which offers you $4 an hour to review a contract right see have unlimited consultations all right I mean yet these free cart ride reviews upfront year now they're not in every state so check it out go to this website right now biz castle comm slash wolf you get your free month or make sure they're in your state that eventually I'm sure they'll be in every state but let me just tell you something honestly I endorse a lot of things this one is what you call a no-brainer check it out you once told me that I was this close to game he said I was this close to actually getting away with something at her what was it what was something that happened where there was something happened and I almost like got away with it and then someone wasn't that one thing with someone the office changed over or some the left well I think look six years is a long time for a white-collar case now and I think what's important to remember is you're not the only case I'm working at this time I'm working five six seven cases at once and it's sort of if you imagine a pie right you're one slice of the pie you're a whole Stratton Oakmont investigation is one slice of the pie right I do my analysis I send out my subpoenas I have to wait for all the documents to come back I moved to the second slice which is a completely another case and then I send that out and I wait and as I work my way around the pie by the time I get back to your slice now I have the documents I've got to analyze them I've got to figure out what they say I've got to figure out what the next step is and then I go out boom and I send out more you know and at the same time you're knocking on doors you brought this up earlier did I knock on a lot of doors I knocked on so many doors we're guys look they'll make it to money look my advice might have waken making weight and my advice the guys are if the FBI knocks on your door don't tell him to go after him selves as probably there's probably not the smartest I had a lot of loyalty there right a significant way the money bought tremendous loss amazing right it bought tremendous loss and it was a difficult not for us to crack through in the beginning the loyalty was cuff to crack did people think that anyone at the agency think that you were crazy like yet there's nothing there he's not breaking the law they knew that they just didn't was provable no they did they never thought I was crazy but I think I mean it was a wild goose chase after all I know well yeah I just think it did that you mentioned earlier about possibly shutting down the investigation are you getting away with it there was a point in time where the was saying well look we either need to really need to wrap this thing up or we're going to shut it down and devote those resources to something else I was not gonna go I was not gonna let it go OCD yeah exactly I was not gonna let it go away unfortunately I had some pretty good supervisors along the way I had some really good supervisors who supported me I think the key here here's what it really I think the key is is the prosecutor switched and I got a guy who I know you don't like it or dislike night I respect joel coen I don't respect the way he processed it I don't think joel coen ever realized he had an event it was almost personal for him well for you was never personal like in other words afterwards I think you know him respect the person I am today and I just don't think he can imagine that I'm the person I am today and then I think it's weird but anyway I don't just like him yeah yeah let me just two things here because I think it's actually a very good point I mean a lot of people have questioned and I mentioned to people that I'd be coming here and I'd probably do a podcast with you and a lot of people were like you know like really surprised why would you do that and and let me tell you my personal reason my personal motivation for doing this and again if anybody I'm not making money from this you're not paying me to be here I mean I'm not really benefiting in other way but again for me it wasn't personal but I also think it's it's important to point out in this current climate that FBI agents can really be unbiased and I think 99% of the FBI work force is a guy like me you are so online we don't care with your black or white we don't care whether you're a Catholic or a Muslim we don't care whether you're a Democrat or a Republican we really don't we don't get paid more to arrest one group over the other it's all just work for us it's all the same and the other thing is this look I don't wish you ill will I don't think you benefit I don't think Society benefits I don't think your wife and your kids benefit if you were to go back to committing crimes I hope you do well I hope you do well the rest of your life because Society benefits everybody benefits right you can help people you can do things you can make the world a better place you can make amends for the things that you did in the past I mean if we're throwing you back in jail again what are we doing okay the recidivism rate I mean we don't need that what some people don't have that attitude though some people they can look not you me but in general like this there's two groups of people it's people like you who are not just got people just individuals human beings that that's a very obviously a healthy attitude not just anyone why do you think some people are just so vindictive that when someone makes a mistake that they don't want to you know you not just forgive but they don't believe in Redemption or enjoy it even like your embrace Redemption what do you learn about you know I think it's just people have to expand their thought processes they have to I think life experience is a big part of this I mean look I I've traveled around the world a lot in my in my work right I I did international money laundering cases so I spent most of my time tracing money all around the world and as part of that process I got to go to those other countries and meet other investigators and other prosecutors and the public and meet people and I think you developed from that you develop as a human being and as you get older and maturity look I'm not saying if as a 22 year old guy you didn't give me the kind of money that you had that I might not have gone off the rails just like you did maybe not to the same degree right but I mean I could see a lot of 21 22 year old kids with 15 16 million dollars just really good you know living XS I get it I completely get it but you're not 21 anymore you know you're in your 50s now right you've learned you've grown and I think what's important is this and and I make one other comment did the change was when Joel Cohen came into the case and I'll tell you why by that point in time I had all of your international dealings document let's go let's go so let me finish let me tell you how we roll in today [ __ ] Hana I'll talk about Joel a little bit and I'll tell you how we rolled into that and why it happened the way it did at the point when Joel came in and he came in for the last 18 months of the case okay by then I had all of your international stuff wrapped up I had done treaty requests to Switzerland I had speak I had spoken to the bankers I had your couriers on board I had so many brokers that even you don't know about to this day who were feeding me information we were ready to go but I can't I can make the best case in the world if I can't get a prosecutor to pull the trigger on it I have nothing Joel came in Joel had international experience he worked in embassy in Paris he dealt with treaty requests I don't know why but there is a fear among many line assistants prosecutors of dealing with treaties and sending him out I loved it I mean for me that was perfect Joel had no fear of that so I showed him what we had and I don't know if you've ever heard about the giant chart on CNBC they did yeah they used it in the movie a little bit for Kyle Chandler okay his low tech as you can possibly get but he listened to me I rolled this thing out like the sea scrolls sea scrolls on a table in the FBI in the US Attorney's Office and he listened and then we then we moved and we went from there and within 18 months he did all of the things that I needed done that I couldn't get in the prior three and a half years 18 months he did it this was banker thing right so true story right the guy the story was he was got involved with some obstacles are still with him he got arrested in the u.s. all right and he's a nice guy by the way your friend right sure investigator he's actually good guy right and he's got a pretty there he was he got arrested here and cuz he was doing something for was it Benihana offshore boat because I saw the I saw the searchbar it's at Benihana right right look here's the thing the whole Benihana thing really has nothing at all to do with you and has very little to nothing to do with him here's what happens okay you're introduced to him through your contacts at a company you're dealing with right you're brought to Switzerland you meet him as part of that trip separate and apart from what you were doing customs the customs service out of Miami the old legacy customs is doing a drug money loner in case they they flipped an individual who claimed that he had been bringing people to Switzerland to the same banker right okay they ultimately build a case they send undercover agents to and by the way the agent in Miami I wanna give props to him a guy named David Marr well get an amazing job you're a very good agent but even better he was very good at cooperating with me and sharing information which I can only say good things about him you know you hear so much about agencies and it happens I mean we get pissing in matches all the time this is a guy that was a great guy from the beginning but but he sends undercover agents to to Switzerland and ultimately they lure the banker to Miami they arrest him Miami he's held without bail as a flight risk because he's a non-us citizen and ultimately he becomes a co-op just you know whoever knew out me that was the day I knew I was [ __ ] but what was the Benihana thing on the search well the Benihana had to do with that customs case okay it came up where I think one of the individuals involved bendy was doing accounting work for Benihana or something like that so I mean it was so far I was actually kind of stunned that it ended up in the movie I mean I understand why it was put in there but it really has no relevance at all points that Yan over no relevance at all all right so so he gets arrested right obviously sucks co-op against everybody well you just so how did you got a call hey I got this guy you're not gonna be like how did that he obviously you didn't he got arrested for sling and when he mentioned my name yes you were listed as the agent investigating as that work well here's what happens he gets debriefed right and as part of the debriefing he said I had this pretty flamboyant stockbroker from New York coming over with his out of control partner and then oh then it was up to the agent to then reach out to me because what the agent did is he runs his name and we have different databases where your name and Danny Porsches name were in that database and so he realizes there's an open investigation in New York and then gives us access now I will tell you I mean that's just a big part that's a that's a big problem for you but that's just a big part of the big problem because of course I also had all the records I had original records I had the courier I had so even before that did you have stuff on this was thing with that yeah oh oh yeah yeah we had already started with Todd you know Todd Garrett's bed now he passed away right so his ex right it's at the whole Swiss you know people always ask me say well look how do you how do you how do you what do you focus where do you start on these things right and and what I like to do and I think what I've become very good at at the end of my career I know you say no I take complex things and break them down into simple things you told me one thing about Freud follow the money follow the money that's absolutely 100% the key yes follow me it's really for every plus there's a minus for every up there's our down for every left there's a right for every go there's a stop that's how complicated it is that's it it really is no more complicated than that but but even even more importantly now let's let's face it you had thousands of customers at your firm and you had maybe hundreds of nominees at different levels whether it be your flippers or your rat holes right right maybe hundreds of people how do you go through thousands of records and figure out well who the criminals are versus who the victims are right it's very easy follow the money who made money if you made money on your side right they lost money their victims right so for example Todd Garrett how Garrett doesn't come up but his wife does right she's got an account at your firm she's making big money so anybody who's making big money I look into we pull her application for the account she's a housewife she's investing hundreds of thousands of dollars in bridge loans right as a housewife right not bad and on top of it all she's not even an American citizen where is she from Switzerland so it's a red flag giant red flag right so people like that go to the top of the list now initially I don't know anything about her I have to investigate right but sometimes when you don't find anything it's more indicative of crime than when you find a lot right because look they're in their 30s at that point there should be tax returns there should be lots of information there's nothing I mean your career Todd Garrett has nothing I never filed a tax return right you know some things loot dealers don't know no that they generally don't so look that's any look we focused on there then the question becomes not only din in securities world you have two sources you follow the money which is always the key but you follow the stock for every buyer there's a sell right stock is issued and from that point forward for every buyer that's is Sally right and so you follow those transact the transactions generate the proceeds which then gets laundered that's what we charge people with laundering right and that's what I did I would follow two paths at one time I would follow the money and I would follow the stock now what's interesting about following the money and when I do public speaking I often bring this up there's a big push in the world now you're not even just the United States for transparency as it relates to beneficial owners of offshore operations and patrician of the world well we know clearly that it you know you can you can substitute false beneficial owners that's what you did right you created another level of a nominee not only for your stock accounts but also for your bank account right and ultimately we pierce that secrecy valence wits and we got all of those records right and then the question becomes where does a retired schoolteacher who lives in London get millions of dollars write this story that's how you take this story apart but here's the thing you had shell companies and you probably don't even remember where they were from but I can tell you super old st. Vincent in the Grenadines Panama being so many right okay rolling [ __ ] that's just the UH the Nesta for there's also passed away because I know I but I don't really care where your shell companies are because the only reason you have a shell company is to put that name on your bank account because you can have a Panamanian corporation or a British Virgin Islands or / Asian but your bank account could be in Switzerland right I don't need to go to Gibraltar I go to Switzerland money so there's a big push for the whole beneficial owner of and transparency on shell companies which is helpful and it's useful but the real key is the way the money it's not official owner of the bank is sure I mean the idea was back then is different countries have different laws and different restrictions so if you kind of put things in different countries you make it more difficult because they got to go to more countries to kind of put the whole piece of eventual ease and anyone who's dedicated and smart is gonna really take the time you can pierce the veil right pretty much yeah I almost felt that I went to Switzerland in my own grave yet because I'm like I'm forcing them to go criminal because you can't pierce the veil simile it's almost like a self-fulfilling prophecy you're I mean right yeah III think you're correct but for a different reason I think the securities trading you're doing was not getting traction in the prosecution area I had broken down the whole international movement of money and I took my theory about how to charge you on this okay under usually totally get it usually using Regulation S right EDI I took it to them and said look to mere issuance of the stock who shell companies for your benefit is the crime let me stay he's talking about he prob something called regulation assistant around it is but it's been changed this loophole that came up in the 90s where you could issue stock to a foreigner and they could be able to sell it back in 40 days without a restriction versus it back then it was two years things now a year right it was a huge ridiculous loophole didn't make a lot was Muslim courage investment in the US but it was being abused badly right I knew I [ __ ] knew this was just nuts with the drug this is the drugs but they really destroyed me because as I was doing this is the stupidest [ __ ] by almost was Kundera while I was compelled I felt to do stupid [ __ ] at some point because I knew would be my own mining this whole regulation issue and I did any good cuz you're right I guess I wasn't getting it security was so like I get it it was like harder to prove more subjective I guess yeah get everyone to admit it under oath right the rat holes the flippers the whole thing and even then were they really interested in that case or not look it gets a regular securities case of manipulation manipulation case gets kind of complicated right and not only that but remember you diversified at some point in you set up build more securities or set them up but they're connected with your dealing with you right it's part of the conspiracy now now if we have the the dominance and control of one firm but now it's diversified among three firms you got our job with us yeah you did very good job with that and again the loyalty became very difficult to finally crack through and get brokers I mean I look I my theory was this okay I operated when I was an agent under what I call the suit of armor theory you and all of your henchmen thought you were in a suit of armor alright but what you guys didn't realize was I'm a stereotypical government parasite okay and all I needed to do was get into your suit of armor somehow find any crowd again yeah any crack and once I'm in the topic I effect I in fact you when you die and the analogy I'm making is okay if I can't get you for securities fraud get him for test-taking get him for anything else just get alright get him in and get testing so this [ __ ] going on Stratton I knew nothing about even like down at lower levels right so if there was first was the hookers in the base time nothing about that it was I forgot her some mob guy who just kid work that right there was the test taking Fiasco where people were having people paid at there right this is all the stuff I didn't really got so big it was unwilling whoa so here's the oil let's go back up let me let me go back because I think I think your listeners look ray gas was designed to lure in for investments into small US companies with a minimum of regulation right right but literally in the statutes it says it cannot be issued to a u.s. person or for the benefit of a u.s. person right right and one of the other caveats was it had to stay outside of the court for 40 days so literally what all the Reg S guys were doing I mean you age did a little bit longer 41 days 42 days or they would short it and then cover by bringing it in right so reg ass was very big at that time I mean you weren't the only guy and I loved reg s cases because they were easy cases right all I needed to do was find out exactly who was behind the shell company which I do through my treaty requests right and then it's over then everything now it's interesting is the mere issuance of the stock is the securities fraud that's what we call in the business they specified unlawful activity which will lead to the money laundering right that's a technical term in the in the money laundering statute there's a whole list of crimes right and securities fraud actually comes in through the RICO statute okay it says fraud in the sale of securities is a predicate for Rico all of the Rico predicates are or what we call suas for money laundering so that's how we got you there so the mere issuance of the stock is the initial crime and then what I said to Joel was look Joel this is the initial crime we charge that as securities fraud every single dollar that we link to the issuance of that stock every single dollar is money-laundering now remember there's a disaster as a huge what he is right because it was yeah now I will tell you that's changed right because of Enron WorldCom they changed the sentencing guidelines and they changed the statutes at the time the most you could get for a money-laundering count was 20 years the most you could get for securities fraud was five right that's where it's worse securities fraud is just as bad as money longer now I mean they've jacked up these sentencing guidelines they've jacked up the statutory maximums for securities fraud it's a different world day if you had done the same crime it's a much higher penalty and the reason I did so much money laundering was I couldn't get good penalties for just securities fraud cases had to do money laundering to get it up higher all right so tell me your perception of Danny Danny porush yeah how do you think me you look at myself versus Danny how would you compare the two of us in the in the US your opinion of what really went on in terms of one thing in the movie that's inaccurate is this whole thing where I said [ __ ] I'm not leaving I actually left right you know write a letter and then Danny ran the firm Quran in my opinion maybe I'm wrong but I think things were got a lot worse after I left in the sense that there's a lot of safeguards I had about not calling rich people like when I was there in the earliest we targeted rich investors correct I don't know what happened after I think it might and might impose is this big thing you can't cool people I don't have a million and it was such a great guy I'm not even trying it's just we didn't target those look look look I think and again I'm not gonna I'm not gonna kiss your ass but I'm an excuse what I saw and what the truth is right the truth is this I think you were pretty disciplined as a criminal running a criminal enterprise you were very disciplined right and that's what made you successful right for example I didn't see in the early days old people in retired people getting ripped off now let's think about this for a second if you have limited resources and you're going to steal why not steal from people who have big money which is what your philosophy but and I'm agreeing with you and I'm gonna tell you I'm agreeing with you I think look if you have to steal steal from people who have lots of money yet why steal from somebody wise little money right yes after your demise and removal from the firm it did spiral out of control and I think it became a free-for-all it became a classic boiler room that was designed to steal money from anybody who had it okay rather than targeting and focusing on people who had moderate to significant wealth it became get wealth good good money from anybody who has it yeah it's not even wealth it's just you know a little bit of nest egg there and it did change look I mean clearly I've spent hundreds of hours debriefing you in an FBI agent capacity I've spent hundreds of hours a debriefing Danny Porsche and many people from your firm and outside of your firm Adele with I mean I think Danny's portrayal in the movie of some as more of your henchman as you know you being the brains and him carrying it out I feel that that's pretty accurate I don't think Stratton Oakmont ever would have become what it became if Danny were in charge from the beginning I just don't believe that would have been the case look I think you he was a great number two guy well I think he's a perfect know why was great because Danny would do things I couldn't do in a daily basis and I I'm always said that and I respect him and nothing the best way but he loved the blood and guts of it all right like I really was bothered by that's why and I on say we weren't targeting wealthy people cuz I didn't wanna call poor people much did he mix it right that I tried putting from rich people right but Danny like you love the insanity like Danny you know what the atavism reheat in the movies great movie sure I think the the juice is the is like the the action is my juice like damn I get it it's an adrenaline he loved ones like yeah absolutely I get it and by the way let me let me clarify for you when I make these statements I'm not I'm not providing them as a way of judging people now I it is what it is it right I mean as many yeah I speak to facts as true as I sin right so you know I'm always going to look and I'm one of those guys who say don't ask me I have my opinion right if you don't want it because I'm gonna give you the uncensored opinion can I mention a name that might make the has in the backyard next stand up you can mention it I may not answer but you can mention it sure Alvin April okay now there's a standard but a fact when I started for me with you so al Abrams was my first mentor I loved al that he was just you know I was not quite all there okay back at Ben I mean he's probably 80 something roll does he now I recently got an a letter from him and I think he called you agent [ __ ] was wait no something like that Adrian yeah yeah I was telling something he's your problem now art and when I think when you arrested him I heard the story like he had like like letters and all stuff like years ago and he was the wildest dude what happened with oh you got onto my case yeah well you know it wasn't but he was one of the early arrests that we made and it really cooperators against you he was running a company at the time you're talking about the art company's visual visual equities yet exactly we actually owned a real copy of the Declaration of Independence which is very unfortunate but yeah he no he was in an early or an early arrest remember I said we opened up this investigation in mid to late 1992 he was arrested in November of 1992 al abrams was he was you know what he was the second arrest yeah the first the first arrest was his outside of account rush go no no no has nothing to do with grudge don't rush go is the guy that he's fixated on now okay which has absolutely nothing to do with me at all has nothing to do with this case it's pure fantasy it's pure out of his mind out of this world that whole garage good thing has nothing to do I know I know this much about this guy grush girl and this has been litigated through the courts there was another guy is sort of a nondescript stereotypical accountant who look Abrams was kicking back money to you at some point right and the way Abrams was getting the funds out of his accounts was by structuring and mouse in a day nine thousand eight hundred nine thousand seven hundred nine six nine seven eight it was about two point three million dollars in about a 12 to 15 month time frame well I understand structuring I understand banking I know any of the finance crimes I know them all right and I love them I mean structuring for me is is one of the greatest crimes ever at the end just to give you a sense you know Abrams structure 2.3 million and that's been against the law for many years what's that just you capturing means just the fine structure sure okay here structuring in the United States we everything a law called the Bank Secrecy Act and in the Bank Secrecy Act they can't you know Congress said we want to track illicit cash movements through our economy most of the war on drugs right that's how it started the war on drugs and it's been expanded from then but they said we want to track illicit cash and they set an arbitrary threshold of ten thousand dollars and they said any fun any cash transaction whether you're making a deposit whether you're taking it out whether you're buying a car when you're buying a boat a house whatever if you're using cash if it's more than ten thousand dollars which means ten thousand dollars and one penny you have to file a form right the institution has to file a form now it is not illegal to deal in cash ice-make oh yeah yeah and many of the people associated with you used to do that just completely legal to do that but when you take out $50,000 in cash that bank files a form the form goes to an agency called FinCEN the financial crimes enforcement network they are the repository for all of these forms if you cross the border it's called a CMI our currency and monetary instrument report now the difference when you're crossing the border versus banks within the US when is when they would set a financial institution its cash right when it's crossing the border its monetary instruments can be diamonds can be bearer bonds can be you know all of the you know cash social and any kind of negotiable instrument right so it's it's the threshold is even better got it when you're at the border so what guys would do of course they passed the law and anytime Congress passes a hard and fast threshold the bad guys gravitate around it right for example they set it at 10,000 people start making deposits and withdrawals nine thousand eight nine seven nine six nine five nine eight nine seven day after day after day right al Abrams did 2.3 million at the end of my career I had a case out of Brooklyn they were doing it was fifty seven million dollars nine thousand eight hundred nine thousand seven hundred at a time they were literally going into the bank it was a bank that's open seven days a week in one of the ethnic communities they would go in seven days a week and why just take dollars a cash out because I'm a because they don't know that you can they don't think that they're allowed to but of course they're avoiding the reporting required now here's the interesting thing with structuring I'm never never gonna take a case where there's two or three checks that are structured right of course you got it you gotta get bigger amounts right and if you take 2.3 million divided by 9.8 you can tell you can figure out how many checks aliens did when you look at financial statements it's a huge red flag you can pull those out of the financial statements records speak to you they tell you volumes and of course Ali Abrams was your mentor he's in on your first deal that the SEC sued you about so al Abrams is going to be on my target screen I pulled the records from his firm I analyzed those records I see the structuring transactions we then we you know we get the accountant for certain things he then cooperates against Abrams Abrams and that leads us to Abrams and a bruise for a while cooperates against you ultimately goes off the reservation that he wrote off the residents like complaining that oh my god it's good Janet Reno bill clinton louis freeh I mean I was killing babies and eating their brains and I mean I'm being facetious of course but it was almost to that level and I literally had no idea what the guy was talking about to this day I don't think he believed me when I say I have no idea what you're talking about do you any a willful it's a li ma he says no he's just a nuisance to me I mean he he took up a lot of my time because what ends up happening is he cooperates against you and he gives us some information right but then he starts taping me surreptitiously taping me and he's trying to get me into conversations about these things that I did with this guy named crush girl I don't even know who crush go is at the time there's no way you would get I know you I had no idea what he was talking about I'm on the tape saying look I have no idea what you're talking about like are you okay are you taking your medicine you know like a you know you used a very unstable and I literally had no idea what he was talking about now why that's very bad for him we ultimately tear up his agreement he's violate his agreement he sentence with no cooperation for no no benefit for his cooperation because he then starts filing these claims in the government and tying up the courts and tying up the prosecutors and then you know and it didn't end with me he went after Joel Cohen now what I like to hear is nowadays after you and he's and he's writing to you and your current attorneys so is your problem that [ __ ] or whatever he calls me I know and one occasion my god it's pretty yeah it was interesting I say he's former agent yeah yeah all right before we want the current I want one more question right so in terms of ultimately I get caught right all right what was your thoughts on like so that I was sentenced right it was Dan Ilan's who got off right and he was really nice since really nice things about me right right how much would impact do you think he said like that I learned my lesson I wasn't that rare guy how much impacting that made on my sentence with a kalonzo well I think there's a couple of factors that go in your sanli and let me actually tell you my position on your sentence yeah because people are question yeah I have no problem telling you this in and I like being it saying it to your face because it because you know how I am sure I think you should have gotten more time okay I was really pissed when you didn't get more time I think I thought you should have got at least seven years right took me six to catch you right you took all of that money I figure you gotta go to jail for at least 70s but here's the thing as an agent what you learn I have no say in that right all I can do I have one obligation as an agent when I sign you up as a cooperator and I say sign you up it's the US Attorney's that signed you up but I'm the guy that handles you right I'm the guy who does all the logistics with you I'm the guy that does all the investigative planning with you I'm the guy that figures out how to best use you so I do all of that I have an obligation and to me it's a moral obligation it's technically a legal one but for me personally it's a moral obligation my obligation is to accurately Express to the prosecutors how you were as a cooperator if you were a shitty cooperator I'm gonna tell the prosecutors you're terrible I told the prosecutors a labelings was a terrible cooperator they didn't believe me they actually dispute with me now I was vindicated over time because they had they had to violate his agreement and take it away I told him that from the beginning right I said this guy is a problem they actually turned it on me and said that I didn't know how to deal with co-operators okay so for me the vindication came when they had the destroys agreement and when he continued to attack them for years to come and attack their credibility and what they were doing with you look I wanted you to get more time but here's the reality of it judges get that 5k letter and they have total discretion to do whatever they want now your particular judge let's look at his history and I think this is why he downward departed you were facing 21 to 27 years all right you got four you served 22 months right and that was with good time and drug and alcohol reduction right okay why would a guy like Judge John Gleeson depart so much here's why and this is my opinion I don't know if this played into his this is what I think look at his history coming up he used to be a prosecutor my understanding is and if it's correct is he was involved with us with God in Sammy the bull Gravano that's how they got Gotti right he's working with the FBI they get Sammy the bull they flipped Sammy the bull he rats out John Gotti they ultimately get his they dig it and he's ultimately he's ultimately released from jail he admits the 18 murders and he subsequently released from jail and put into the witness relocation program okay five years for any murders I mean that's a pretty good sentence even if he gets five years right so John Gleason at that point understands when you have violent criminals and they help you get big targets there's a benefit for that fast forward in time John Gleason is now a judge right you're not a violent criminal right yes you stole money yes who did bad things but you didn't kill 18 people right and I think in his mind he sees the difference between us Sammy the bull and a Jordan the belfry right and I think that's look I think the thought process at the time was and this is why I would never get great sentences is it's white-collar crime right where's the real harm right you know what's the big deal of course that's change and it's changed yeah it's changed let me my generation sure cuz I owe you I always said this to people many times I publicly say this that on some level if it wasn't for you I'd be [ __ ] because I broke my cooperation when I was you'd still be in jail provides the window here's let me take this story if those of you don't know the movie I wanna I want to give Danny a shout-out here coz Danny got bad rapid movie Danny did not turn me in and and slip the letter to you and there's nothing to do with Danny Danny was dead sorry ban yeah it wasn't in the book but they just collapsed a few characters together right it's true that I was asked when I was co-opted do you say how I made sense of my cooperation all my friends are cooperating it's not to be people I know is just something I'm doing the right thing and when I was asked to cooperate against the real friend of mine debil right I had this moment of what I thought was you know I can't wrap my friend down blah blah blah plus there was political overtones right correct leave those out right now okay cuz I you and I instead of ratting my friend down I slipped him a note saying I'm wired don't talk to me right right and in that moment that I did I wouldn't I said you know what I wouldn't cooperate it's my friend I felt like Oh a real man whatever I had this moment of conscience write whatever you called saying I cooperate against you know against the whole thing but not against the friend that's how I rationalized this myself and I felt really good about that I think it's three months later I might get this terrible call well like long story short this guy somehow opened up I don't think he ratted me out doesn't matter how it happen ever tell me cuz you never have somehow you found out I slipped him a note and at that moment you had every right to rip up my agreement and I would have done 25 years correct somewhere between 21 and 27 right yeah every right to anything yeah boy thank you for that by the way I honestly it was because of you they into 20 years in jail but I won't know why you did it look here's the thing I had a lot invested in this also I'm not gonna lie and say that some of this isn't personally free okay it's not all about you some of it was about all I had invested a lot in this and I knew the other people you had dealt right I was very aware of who they were and not only that look we and I think it's important for the public to understand I don't just randomly go out and pick people and wire you up and send you in against them right we debriefed you and you can confirm this and we debrief Danny for months and we created lists of people and we and I think this is very important right and I wasn't sent to entrap no no and but and this is the point I want to make because of current events and this is where current events have gotten the FBI into trouble okay we don't just take your information and blindly accept it I corroborated that information if you told me you did a deal with mr. X and that he was involved in this particular stock as a bridge lender or a flipper or Arado I pulled those records and I looked and I confirmed now if you told me he got a hundred thousand shares but he really got 150 okay that doesn't matter to me he still got two shares he still did what you said you know dates and numbers when you're talking in the future I mean everybody is a fuzzy on those things right so I would take that list of people that you had I wanted to go after them I mean I have second and third wave of arrests I want to make in your case I say your case the whole Stratton Oakmont investigation right so when you did that and it was less than three months that it came circular back to me and the note said don't acrimony yourself I'm wired right we knew we had a problem and and what was bad for you was it was the first time out of the gate because you have to remember and this is my decision I made this I'm the guy who sent you in against your your close friend because I had to make a decision as an agent I've been chasing you for six years I'm tired of chasing you I've got other cases I want to work and I've got other things I want to do I want to wrap you up but here's the thing you've never worked for the government before as a cooperating witness right you've never worn a recording device like like we're going to put on you wear a transmitter we're not gonna put you in you've never been in situations forced to ask the kind of questions I'm going to make you ask and in the ways to elicit things from people that are helpful for you and for us for the case okay so I need to make a decision I may only get one whack at a particular individual in other words if I send you in against mr. X who's a low-level person I can do that and if you screw it up it's not really a big deal because they're low-level if you say the wrong thing or you talk too much or you don't get what we need but if I send you in against the top guy our number one or two number three target and you screw it up I may never get a chance to send you in against them again also though I have to sort of analyze you psychologically and your profile can I trust you can i and obviously I couldn't trust you but that's why I sent you in against your close friend if you wire up against your close friend and you create a valuable recording for us then you're on board it indicates to me that you're on board it indicates that you're going to do what you need to do in order to get that 5k obviously you tried to double play as you tried to double D lists and because you didn't know you know and the people you're dealing with didn't know remember at that point my boat is full of cooperating witness everything from the cold caller level to the account opening level to the partner level to people outside of the firm all cooperating with me and of course they're all looking for information and feedback to me it comes back to me it's it's far less I don't know why I did it I just in that moment it was something really odd I think think you understood my motivation wasn't evil III get why you did it and of course that's why we made you take an additional obstruction of justice I mean ultimately it didn't really affect your sentencing you know again I don't have any say over sin no did it maybe I was an extra six months whatever maybe right maybe it did but you were done you were by all intents and purposes they they wanted to shut you down right and it was only my dealing in my relationship because I had a very good relationship with joel coen and he was a very good guy he listened to me again and I think that the greatest strength Joel Coen had he's not only just a good lawyer but he's a good listeners I shouldn't and he and he trusts in his age as well I mean I don't think I should hate anybody right if you don't know I I know you don't and it's okay if look it's important for people to understand I don't have the kind of relationship that I have with you or with other people it's not that way with everybody right I mean you know I'm very select about you know I do my my analysis about who like deal with in whoo I can't deal with and I don't know whether or not even I come here today right mean there's a whole analysis I have to go through because some people will look at this today and say he's a sellout screw him you know he's no good you know he's gone to the other side when some people will say actually he's living what he preaches right so I prefer to think I'm living what I'm preaching if I am what I am it's true or false yeah you came on my yacht I threw OPS's at you unfortunately false false false he shot me if I threw Lots although although I do believe it's the greatest season by the way I have to give a shout-out to Kyle Chandler did an amazing job a great guy look that scene and I let me tell you why I think that's such a great scene we actually role played that scene in the FBI offices you know the bureau gave us permission for me in particular to review portions of the script I had a very tiny look my mind and I've made noise saying not a single penny from it but my purpose was to ensure accuracy right I wanted it to be accurate looking if they if Hollywood wants to make up some completely [ __ ] to make it up you don't need me don't waste my time just do what you want to do right but if you want the truth because in my opinion as you know from your books in your movies the truth is far better than anything anybody can make up right so you know look and you'll have to confirm this but my understanding is that that was a plan of yours you wanted to bring me to the yacht you wanted to see if I was corruptible and Bo Dietl talked you out of it right which led did the whole scene going out to the country club on the cell phone with the quaaludes and all now look you know I read the script I didn't like the way the boat scene was written I said I would never do these things I would never do this I would never speak this way and they said well what would you do yeah and I literally told ya I told Kyle Chandler and I told the other writer who was there who's the other person in the scene this is what I would do they altered this yeah yeah and and I think I came out fantastic I think Kyle Chandler did an amazing job and DiCaprio did a great job and yeah I think it turned out well let's switch to current events sure so here's the thing right you I know you're like totally a political right I am but I know you were really pissed we talked very you every few months we talked right and as this whole thing started with you know happened the FBI at the higher levels can you just give me your Takens holding with Comey and mccabe and i'm sure what really is coming you know as much as you want to say in your larger you say sure how do you make sense of that whole thing what's going on the FBI ain't Trump and Clinton and what the [ __ ] happened like cuz the world seems like it's really [ __ ] up right now yeah let me tell you how first of all I have an advantage as many people don't have from two perspectives first of all I was into government and I was in particular in the FBI and I work criminal cases so I know the right way and the wrong way to do it right I like to think that 99.9 percent of my career I conducted my arrests and my search warrants the proper way I mean I was a guy who would go out at 6 o'clock in the morning and take people out of their bed and bring him in if I thought it was necessary I was also the guy who would call the lawyers and say surrender your client and bring him in right so I've done the whole gamut I've got the experience and remember my entire career was in New York City what is it that you don't see in New York City I mean even though I was a white-collar agent I was tagged to do drug cases OC cases I've testified in mob cases I've you know you name it OC organized crime organized crime exactly not OCD OC without 2d and and I've done those I have the experience so I can sit and I can objectively look at how an operation is conducted and say whether it was right or wrong and for example I'll start with Raja so that's an overkill right for a guy like right that's just a joke I mean boats in the river and and and then I think at a helicopter it's just too much crazy and I've seen people try and justify that former agents try and justify that bowl I don't believe it but here's the other advantage I have I do a lot of traveling now and I have a lot of time so I do a lot of reading why because I'm a frustrated investigator I loved being an investigator I loved being on the street I had zero desire during my entire career zero to move up into management because in the FBI it's a it's an odd place it's shaped like a pyramid when you go into a corporation Facebook you want to rise up or or Instagram or any of these major come IBM whatever come you want to rise up and become the CEO 99% of agents enter at the bottom at the bottom and that's what they want it's a pyramid why because one step up from the bottom you're no longer an investigator now you're an administrator now you're managing other agents instead of actually doing cases I love being on the street I love the hunt I loved chasing guys like you that was my adrenaline rush right you know going after people who in many cases now some people were as dumb as stumps right they don't have but some people I've arrested and going after brilliant brilliant people much smarter than I will ever be right creative and I loved that chase I loved unwinding it so I stayed there and I worked those cases but I have time now and as a frustrated investigator I went back and I started looking at all the I mean we were bombarded on a daily band we still are now on a daily basis starting really in 2015 or so just info paneling but like you can't keep up with it right I mean we have the Russian thing we have this dossier we have hackers we have you and I start digging into it and the more I start digging the more curious I get and I feel that same adrenaline rush as I'm going through it now don't get me wrong I love the FBI I to this day as I sit here right now it is the greatest law enforcement agency in the world bar none I mean there were other great ones but they are the best because we do so many different things and we do so many things very well so I'm I'm a little bit offended by what's happened now I I hate to see what the energy of the high-level it it is yeah exactly at the higher levels and look my philosophy and again this is my working theory at this point I'm not a writer I'm more of a public speaker than lambreaux but I'm contemplating writing a book about this whole thing you're [ __ ] from my perspective tell me what happened what do you think look look here's and I want to do from my perspective because I want to approach it from a non-political standpoint because I can tell you I've targeted corrupt FBI agents with criminal cases I have active duty FBI age who were corrupt and I had no problem with I've done search warrants in police departments against corrupt cops to me you're corrupt you're corrupt your corrupt period yeah I don't care okay so I have an interesting theory and you hear me out on this let me go through it Ollie and you tell me I'm not the same you don't get the whole thing I think all of the issues we have nowadays all of these things you're hearing about with with Clinton and call me and the other people at the FBI stems from one event in my opinion the attack on the consulate in Benghazi interesting right you're gonna like how to hell's that all connected hear me out on this on the anniversary of 9/11 the consulate is attacked the Ambassador is killed three other government employees including CIA employees are killed there's allegations swirling in the media almost immediately that the Ambassador had requested more security and was denied the security by the Secretary of State Hillary Clinton because all ambassadors are on the bottom of State so there's people all over the country different groups especially right-wing anti-clinton groups start filing Freedom of Information requests and in most cases the Department of State does not even respond okay to the request they don't say in most cases we don't have anything they literally don't respond and so there's there's you know this time frame and what yours is now I think whatever we hear it says September 11th I think it was I want to say 2012 maybe all right first I'm not again I'm not within my a year there it's okay it's almost simultaneously as these Freedom of Information requests that are coming now of course why is the Department of State now responding because they have no emails to give them despite federal law that says any email created by a federal employee belongs to the federal government every email I ever sent as an FBI agent does not belong to me during my working hours when I'm working and if it's case related it belongs to the federal government those emails must be archived right it's a federal law that requires this now the Department of State can't respond why because they have we nails why is everyone has a server okay but we don't know about the server yet what happens next is an Eastern European hacker by the name of gusoff ur Romanian hacker hacks into a number of political people accounts george w bush : pal so left and right and the guy in particular named Sidney Blumenthal who is a clone yes the Clintons yeah quit inoperative right whatever term yeah it was in one of those emails with Sidney Blumenthal is corresponding with Hillary Clinton that that Lucifer the hacker then releases online and people see an email address Clinton mail calm and the initial thought is well okay she's using her a personal email now what's important to remember and this is where the media merges these things together there's quite a difference between using personal email and having a personal server right if I use a gmail account to do FBI agent business Google control controls that server anybody whether you be Democrat Republican independent whatever can or they know whether your congressmen are centered you can go to Google and get that it's housed on Google that Google controls it never go away so and you have your own server you are the gatekeeper for that information let me pause for a moment and tell you a parallel here al Abrams al Abrams was a self clearing brokerage firm exactly okay that's okay it was able you cleared initially through Bear Stearns yeah yeah I didn't need to go to you to get your records people should understand I didn't go to Stratton Oakmont I went to Bear Stearns because Bear Stearns did all of the paperwork for your trading if I wanted a labrum cz's trading you had to go I had to go to a lab rooms he was the gatekeeper and information and what he could do it that was crazy exactly and why do you do that it's a matter of control again these are my opinions and I think gold I think ultimately time will bear out that I'm correct on this keep going so you have the attack on the embassy then you have this release of hacked emails and whose people see Clinton mail calm they initially think that in fact it's just a personal email we now with history we now know no in fact she set up a personal server when the FBI learns that a personal server has been set up to conduct government business the real question becomes was that server used to move classified information what year was this now it would be we I don't remember off the top my whole block but it was whenever the FBI opened 18 15 maybe again I'm terrible with this that I write dates I try not memorize dates because I'm always accurately I write it down okay so the FBI opens up an investigation into the use of the private email server by Hillary Clinton because of Hillary Clinton as Secretary of State sends classified information right at whatever levels top secret secret you know whatever whatever level rhymes committee that's a problem that's a major problem and also and not only that you need to do damage control but we need to do damage control right because that server may not be protected in the same way and foreign governments may have hacked into it and obtained information and for example you know when I was at an FBI agent I had a non classified system to do emails on and I had a classified system and they were separated and you had to do you know I could never use the FBI does not allow you to use personal email except in the most extreme you know exigent circumstances if I need to for non relevant matters but never ever for classified information so the FBI opens its investigation against these the use of the email server by Hillary can which ultimately leads to director Comey's famous press conference where he exonerates what do you make of that whole thing well we can come back to that in a minute let me finish the story and then I'll come back today but that's when he stands up there and basically says no reasonable prosecutor would would charge her okay so and I'm gonna stop for a minute because I went too fast so the attack leads to the discovery of the Clinton mail calm which leads to the private server which leads to the FBI investigation which leads to the press conference the press conference in part leads to commis firing right which leads to then the obstruction of justice excuse me which leads to the Special Counsel right commis firing led to the special counselor just call me leaks leaks documents to the New York Times the memos right that leads to the Special Counsel which lend leads to this multi-year investigation which then leads to the yo part 2 of the report is the obstruction of justice by President Trump it all goes back to the attack on Benghazi literally to where we are today arguing whether or not Donald Donald Trump obstructed justice and tried to you know hamper the special counsels investigation or a hamper the FBI in their investigation of the email server go back one second to the the press conference as well to the investigation knowing what you know and maybe what you can legally say right now okay sure um do you think the I'm sure the investigation was handled properly or no it wasn't it well first let me say this everything that I tell you is just from personal knowledge and public information I have no links into the FBI that will get information from thing so from a legal standpoint this is for what opinions are worth right and we all know the different expressions related to but you're an educated well here's what I've said before I work criminal cases for almost 26 years I know how to conduct them the in my opinion with the limited information that's available and I'll give you one or two examples and my opinion would change if I had access to maybe everything and it was different I would change my opinion but as I sit here right now know it was even cooler the the the investigation into that email server was not even conducted in in a manner even close to what I would consider a proper criminal investigation and I'll give you one of the biggest red flags for me which this is not even a FBI issue it becomes a DOJ issue a preservation letter was sent to the people who were running the server what a preservation letter is get to say who cannot destroy it so mediastreams what happens to that evidence the state was destroyed and they know who destroyed it and what the Department of Justice do they immunized the individual they criminally alized him look I can only tell you why from what I read in the paper why you think look why do I think I'll defer that answer at this point but I can tell you what's been publicly stated and I take everything that I read with a grain of salt maybe maybe 50% of what you read is true maybe that that's the best thing there is it sure what you say they improperly immunized I would let's just put it this way from my purse I never in a million years would have advocated for immunizing a guy like that and if that's a guy you have him in a vise you squeeze the vine yeah now if I had a hundred FBI Jews they all say the same thing you think yeah okay fine yeah so they're okay so in 99 out of 100 and the other one is one is all correct okay so ferrous soso improper that thing happens there way that's just one example okay now so from there right so that's that causes basically the information itself to vanish what really happened all those emails they're just gone well I think that really got our asking so are they really gone they can be gone it's quite possible it's quite powerless but every single person they sent them to right they would have the other side of the email wreck so this every emails gotta be unless both sides destroyed them but let's assume let's let's assume that there is one email out there that's a bad email for the former Secretary of State let's just say hypothetically speaking and it went to another person that other person knows it's a bad email right so that other person keep the email right now where they destroy right right now maybe it's sitting on a server maybe they use Gmail maybe she used Clinton mail calm yes again so so okay we look now at the bottom line is why create the perception that you're obstructing justice sure I even do first of all I have an issue with why even set up the server you know the fact of convenience I really I don't buy that at all I by that I mean zero I in my opinion against zero credibility it's about control right and what what are you concerned about look I mean people turn around they say yeah but Colin Powell used his private email yes he was private email but he didn't have a private server right the he easily accepted stealing the emails and colon Powell may have sent a CC copy to Department of State which is what for example the FBI and other agencies recommend I say look if you must use your gmail account for personal you know for whatever reason outside of the main system send a copy of that email directly as part of the package to the government let's move past that for one second I know how the Department of Justice rugs unfortunately I being the target or I understand so it's not as you said you cannot bring a case as an FBI agent anymore than Comey can correct so for him to get up and clear someone correct is impossible correct you can't clear or indict someone correct which I believe raises an interesting question which I raised when I do a lot of public speaking events that nobody raises call me look look I've read director Comey's book and it's an interesting book a friend bought it gave it to me said I should read it I read it for me it was very illuminating about the director and because look at this point up to this point I I've never had any personal dealings with him I to me again he's just another person in this whole equation I don't know him personally but I do have a lot of friends who worked with him when he was in Southern District of New York as the US attorney they all loved him his reputation within the FBI prior to this mess was stellar people loved him he was a great guy he seemed very Pro agent very Pro out of the eye you know he was a guy that you could believe had your back and would protect you this was stunning for most agents when he stood up there and had that conference I have a theory completely out of the blue I have well let me finish I say one other thing here okay so he stood up and said that he believed no reasonable prosecutor would do that but ultimately somebody from the Department of Justice should have stood up and said well that's wonderful that that's your thought but we make that decision right but they remained quiet there was nothing I remember the attorney she recused herself lawyers and it goes to the next person and so why didn't that pose that rod Rosenstein yes I believe it was I'm not positive but I believe it was my question again as an investigator I'm a very curious guy I want to know why somebody of Department of Justice didn't up and say well that's nice that that's your belief at the FBI but we're the Department of Justice we make that decision because look as an investigator I clashed with the the prosecutors many many times and I had it thrown back in my face many many times no we make two charging decisions we make the legal decisions and the reality of it is they're right I mean I can advocate for my position I can push to have people charged certain ways at the end of the day I have zero saying that if they don't want to listen to me they do whatever they want to do and they could have done whatever they wanted to do in this case which by default leads me to believe they were happy to default and allow the focus to fall on the FBI because it takes the heat off of DOJ and why does it take the heat off of DOJ well because she had to recuse herself because of the incident in Arizona on the tarmac with Bill Clinton that's why she dropped out of the investigation right but regardless what do you think that Loretta blames herself in this whole mess you think she's an attorney you don't really know I have no idea okay yeah I can only look at it from his outsider look let me ask you another question I don't say this about Loretta everything I literally know people who have worked with her and they say wonderful things about her I have no real I mean it was superficial many of the cases involving Stratton Oakmont and others that I worked came out of Eastern District when she was the US Attorney I can tell you my limited dealings with her in an indirect basis have always been positive I got a formal apology from her you know that right yeah I mean they said you had more direct dealings with her than I did so in like ten years again the Apollo mission of the peace plan theory my theory is that call me as you said was this great guy like you know in his in whatever it's whether you like the man but he was this really honorable guy but I think that all of us every human being once we start thinking the ends justifies the means it gets very dangerous I believe that in commis heart and in his soul he thinks that Donald Trump was a danger it's just his opinion so dangerous to whatever you ask everything that is nothing he would not do to try to stop him from getting elected and staying in power so all those decisions resulted from I'll break laws now because I have a higher moral what wasn't in his book even a higher is they almost like in his own mind he had this higher calling was to his own morality was that I until versus the fact that he was a duly elected president by the population that was Trump by his own internal compass saying though my compass is more important than the Constitution that's my opinion what do you think I agree with part of what you said I think the only part that I deviate from you is I'm not so sure he really believes he was violating any laws or or anything in the Constitution I mean I think he really believes in his heart that what he did was the right thing to do but I think his motivation behind it I think you hit a nail there as far as his which I I think when the most stunning things for me about Donald Trump being elected president is the number of what I would have normally considered otherwise very stable individuals who are made unstable by the presence of Donald Trump go at Trump the range I mean I I'm stunned at the number of people who they're there their thought processes changed so dramatically when they're around him but I but I I agree that I think he truly believes what he was doing was right I mean you read his book it's in his book he explains it clearly I don't think he's a bad man I don't think he's set out to do anything illegal whether he has or hasn't will ultimately be adjudicated through the investigations that are going on now let's about a level McCabe yeah McCabe is an interesting issue again I don't know McCabe personally I have very good friends who worked with McCabe McCabe was in New York during the time that I was in New York and I'm gonna answer that question by by again stating my only knowledge is based on the publicly available information and I'm going to stop for a moment and I'm gonna I'm gonna preface this by giving you an analogy of things that I saw as an agent I worked very early in my career with another agent who was doing a a municipal bond investigation is a fraud involving municipal bonds a pay-to-play type of deal so there was some political influence in it and it's a single agent who who gets 15 22 subpoenas from the US Attorney's office and sends them out for records and it's characterized the next day in a newspaper as massive federal investigation it's one guy sitting at a desk who sent out 15 subpoenas so I understand that there's perception in the reality and they're never ever the same right I realized that much of what you read you know you hear terms fake news from different people the reality of it is I'm fake news does exist because I've lived through it I've seen it happen and I'm gonna give you another thing that sort of Jayde's me to some of the media when your movie first came out okay I was still an FBI agent and we would get significant requests on a daily basis about interviewing me about you okay and I can tell you more often than not those in those reporters came in wanting me to fulfill what they believed was the story and their and distort their narrative and the narrative was you're a piece of [ __ ] you've always been a piece of [ __ ] and that I should bash you and say bad things and again because for me it's not personal it was stunning for them they they were there they were thrown off balance by a guy saying look I I hope he does well because society hasn't benefited and it'll be benefits right look if he you know in the early days yeah the early days so I saw and then I saw how things did I would be that I would say I only be twisted how exactly you say something bad I know he didn't say that because it wasn't you yeah I mean if they asked me a question about you I would answer it honestly and if it was bad for you because it was a true answer then that's not my problem right I'm giving you the truth right if it's bad for you well then it's bad for you but when I would say the truth I wouldn't see it written is the truth okay so that being my basis and then saying you know massive federal investigation III I think the way the things are coming in from the news you have to be very careful and as it relates to Mackay business first of all from a purely human standpoint when he was fired two days before retirement it hurt it hurt everybody who's ever been an FBI agent right 21 years you put in a lot of your life you dedicate a lot of your life in 21 years right he's a full pension you yeah so I mean look I'm retired I had my pension comes with me my understanding is he's fired two days before he's eligible to retire he loses his pension he loses his government health care right we were labeled we pay for it but were allowed to carry into into retirement he loses all of that two days after 21 years on the job that hurts so from a very personal standpoint I very I feel very bad for him and his family and and I know it's difficult right but I step back and I look at it again objectively as an agent or as a frustrated retired agent who who wants to figure people and things out and he clearly made mistakes and I think in this super hyper political climate he's gonna get hurt for it I think he's gonna be punished for it because look let me step back and take a look at George papadopolis and Michael Flynn what they talk about that being charged with a thousand and one or a false statements to an FBI agent when the agents who interviewed Michael Flynn himself said they didn't believe he lied I think what's happening there is a hyper political investigation who they want to squeeze people to get information because the objective is to get Trump right okay the judge said that yeah well I didn't matter for it yeah matter forth and it's also happening now with Michael Flynn he's gotten a new defense team and they've gone into court and they're raising allegations that information was withheld by the government that was beneficial to Michael Flynn you know I would not be surprised if they see at some point vacate the vacated the guilty plea they found and I think much of that will be determined by what happens with Andrew McCabe now for exhibit 4 for purposes of this discussion let's assume that the the inspector general's report that includes Andrew McCabe is correct and that on multiple occasions he not only were showed a lack of candor but you know it was blatant it very black-and-white okay look I think the issue with Michael Flynn and George papadopolis I'm not especially with Michael Flynn I'm not so sure it's black and white I get it but they say McCabe was black and white how do you not charge him right how do you not in this political climate right look I think ten years ago I don't think any one of these individuals would have been charged I don't know I mean look there used to be a joke in in law enforcement circles a thousand and one was a was a charge where you need to charge somebody but you don't really want to hit him very hard it gave me a that you did well but you actually no no but I actually struck the justice and you you guys wouldn't know I know I think you took an obstruction of justice care no I took a thousand in one count you pledged you let it go down to a thousand oh okay I'll have to go back and I'm pretty sure I'm 90% I don't think so but I'll go back at some point yeah but again at your point you're also facing whatever I get it 27 30 counts of securities fraud and money laundering long yeah it's very low it was almost it was almost a joke right I mean look lying to a federal agent there's there's degrees of lying right if I come to you and I mentioned this earlier if I say to you well how much did how much was moved from this account and you tell me a million and a half a million there was a million I'm never gonna charge you with a false statement of that right but if you tell me no I never moved money to that account and I never dealt with that guy and I have significant evidence to show otherwise but Morgan's for because you lie and that's significant for my investigation because it hampered my investigation more about a sort of damn he's so people tell the truth I think it's a fair system if I gonna charge one guy you have to charge the other just because he's an FBI agent I can't exclude him from justice he's got to face justice if I lied and got caught then I personally would believe okay you're gonna look it's it's like if I'm speeding as a civilian now if I'm speeding or even when I was an agent it's not up to me whether the cop writes the ticket if I'm speeding and he knows I'm an agent then he still writes me a ticket I can't complain about the cop right he did what he was legitimate now if you write me a tickets and I wasn't speeding then it's a different thing if you haven't lied and you're charged with it then it's a different thing let me go back for a second yeah because you you're like a you're like really you really know this [ __ ] I know I know was your OCD I want you to get your head into it you can't help yourself and that's what happened that's what that's what happened now with me research I know cuz I even hear my voice I get passion I want to go back for a sec but I want to be clear I'm not picking sides I understand you know I'm not I'm not for or against McCabe I'm gonna guess about knowing that you probably voted Democrat nine and ten times but who knows doesn't matter how you actually vote both ways both I'm sure you're not a Republican or that like yo I'm gonna register ok fair interpret right I voted for Trump I've said it publicly alright um the most socially liberal guy you could imagine I'm very liberal socially fiscally conservative whatever I voted cuz I despised Hillary Clinton I had reasons why it goes back even to the D'Amato stuff and blah blah blah sure and the white one so I don't rush me that being said let's go back I want your opinion and again I understand that you don't from the outside your kiss is that inside after I've measured the ball to me but you're educated opinion here it always struck me as odd that Hillary Clinton the fact though through fusion GPS pays for a dossier from Russia and yet it's his collusion with Russia it looked like it was on the behalf of Hillary Clinton colluding with Russia to come up with information money goes to Russia through the sky steel how come no one in balance till it's in if the world is upside down it's like what do you make of this like didn't she and I'm gonna [ __ ] carry my own cousin she's my life okay she has no power to hurt you help me but what ditch doesn't make sense to me since Truman obvious she a Democratic Party of [ __ ] whatever right then one of the same pay money to someone to Russians to dig up phony information to influence the election sure the Moi's Trump saying they key clued Russia because he doesn't control most of the media that's what it comes down to let me address that can you go please sure let me address that because because here's my position what do you think my position has this exactly the same and I'm gonna tell you what what happened okay I retire in January of 2015 reporters around the world when this thing comes about are always looking for current or former FBI agents to comment on what's going on or in sometimes just to give them guidance as to where they should look as investigative journalists right the reality of it is 99% of the agents who were on the job will never talk to the press in my 25 years 8 months as an FBI agent I never ever ever spoke to the press because I knew the press had their own agenda and it wasn't my agenda I took beatings because your case took so long in the press not me personally but saying like why hasn't invented then because they don't know what's going on behind the scenes right so I started getting calls from all over the world from major well-known media outlets to talk about the Russian collusion narrative okay and because I because I'm retiring I can actually speak about it now know that but you can't even go to real bar I'm actually former Americans is like 18 Americans that cannot go cuz you investigated so you know all about Russia which is actually well I wouldn't say I'm an expert not not certainly in Russia how much investigations do are not not not Russian government just roughshod me oh let's put it this way I didn't actually do much but what I did was quite consequential important I actually did very little but what I did was what did you do I can't talk about that Scott I can't tell you now is that what you're alluding to here is that there was a lie I'm gonna just explain this and then we'll go back to the whole Russian collusion area look there there was a there was a we as the American government under the Obama administration put together a list of 18 Russians who were allegedly involved in the murder of a Russian attorney who was investigating cover-ups of stolen money in Russia the Russians allegedly jailed the man they killed him and a person involved that got the ear of the the US government the Obama administration that we passed what they call the Magnitsky Act it's based on an individual by the name of Sergei Magnitsky Sergei Magnitsky not having bad cast yeah you're not allowed into the US and they'll also seize his assets well when we created that list of 18 individuals the the Russians responded within 24 hours with the list of 18 Americans that are barred from ever entering Russia and they were going to seize any any assets of these Americans in Russia of course none of us were ever going to go to Russia and none of us has assets there so it's purely a political trip for tat but it was interesting that I had one Russian case in my entire career and I'm number 18 out of 18 on the list so it's a little bit of a notch on my belt but and again it's not because I'm a Russian expert but I'm very good at what I do because I don't let go I'm an inquisitive guy right I like to think outside the box and I did I took I took what was a very innocuous crime and and turned it into a very big investigation but going back to the Russian : your first cold I would call me and I would tell them and I have witnesses to this because I purposely had people come in and sit in the room as I had these discussions so I can literally prove that I've had these discussions since the very beginning there was no Russian collusion there never was any and they weren't gonna find any and here's my simple common sense analysis it has nothing to do with intelligence reports or anything else what I do know is this we pay the CIA billions of dollars a year to know about countries like Russia China North Korea we have the NSA of course we have everything going through the Director of National Intelligence now now if we're paying the CIA billions of dollars to know what the Russians are doing and we can get a former spy from the UK just of within one month Christopher steel put together a dossier that says among other things and these are the kind of things that I look like I've read the dossier I read the entire thing I mean it's it's stunning it's stunning what's in there from it from a law enforcement perspective it's stunning any bomb all [ __ ] oh my god so look if you flip once Russian spy in your career it's a great move to flip 1520 high-level Russian sources and gather information in a month or two and put it into a dossier I mean your your super guy your superspy right but but here's the thing we pay the CIA billions of dollars to know what Russia's doing among other things in the dossier it says Trump and others in his in his campaign and around him have been corrupted for at least the last five years well the problem becomes this what is the CIA doing if they don't know that these people have been corrupted for five years right and some of them are allegedly traveling to Russia which the CIA and the NSA and other people who are spies should know about the the ultimate deciding factor is this Donald Trump takes the oath of office without the CIA stepping in and disclosing that no we have information to corroborate the dossier if the CIA had anything Donald Trump never takes the oath of office if any of those allegations are true and that he's actually a plant of the Russians why the CIA is gonna come forward not only that but if you saw the leaking of information from intelligence agencies primarily CIA and others transcripts of Donald Trump it's all to hurt Donald Trump it's not to help him right there's no way he would have taken office so I knew from the beginning there was no I didn't need to spend forty million dollars or whatever they spent to adjudicate that nobody none of these reporters ever quoted me in any of their stories out they will none of them followed up with me and ultimately I've been vindicated again by a 42 million dollar special or whatever the special counsel spent on his report now again it's not that I'm so smart but what I do have is a lot of street smarts and common sense that's their job to know what the Russians are doing if they have no info and I know they have no infant because they didn't use it they didn't present it before he ever took office or since he took off what you think me or you know him you know and I actually know nothing about him other than again what's publicly available though when you were um yeah yeah he was there for probably you know a big big chunk of my career he I mean he came in after 9/11 right but you know personally know had zero dealings with him I was really disheartened by his phony oh I was saddened they seemed I assume he's not the man he once was right just as old like your bedroom I don't know what he was like before but I didn't anticipate what I saw him there I was actually very I felt sad yeah I said I felt bad for him yeah he should not have a net which which again but then that raises issues with me as an individual keeping who was running the place you know how many how many people have actually gone back and read the entire 200 pages of the special counsels report from beginning to end I can tell you I'm in the middle of it now I will by the time I'm done have read every single page I mean every every one of these reports whether it comes from the Senate or the house whether it comes from Democrats or Republicans I'm downloading and I'm reading I'm reading all of these things because there's little the way you do this is you take little bits and pieces and then you form the big picture here's here's I think the problem what's happening now people have the conclusions made and now they need to go out and investigate to substantiate their conclusion that's wrong what you do is you develop evidence the Evelynn evidence why choose your opinion and that's not happening the conclusions have been formed and now they're seeking and you can't support it because it doesn't exist because it's not true because it's not true where do you think this it ends up right now like I look at our country in a in a place I never thought it would I don't know what to say don't recognize it the way it was 10 years ago even 15 years ago it seems like this almost like I went cold Civil War but a cold Civil War and in some I think between now and the election are going to be turbulent very turbulent I think the the other investigations that are going on out there now there are in particular by him zero never even heard his name Nonna's tough guy no I know nothing I don't even know his reputation other than when he was appointed to do this I'd never heard of him never seen him never knew nor anything but but I think look the issue is this if Trump is reelected I think it buys time to do a better investigation I think if Trump is moved out removed from office and then somebody from the kradic side goes in i think it's bad i think that's when things are gonna stop and i think we may never learn the true history behind what went on because at the end of the day I don't really care who it all timon whether it be a Republican or Democrat or whether it falls on Hillary or Trump I think me like everybody else we just want the truth right and we'll deal with the truth were big grew big were grownups right we can deal with the truth so if Trump Trump was a Russian agent then we would all want to see Trump go down if Hillary manufactured this whole thing then we want to see Hillary go down and whoever it was that did these things and why they did and I think is what the way it ends up do you think at the end of the day there's gonna be like a slew of indictments for meit you think it ends with like do you think this ends let's say Trump gets reelected or does it fall does it wash out before the election or II think though it goes well III think there's a good chance it happens before the election I think it comes down before the election for the simple reason that if Trump is out and those people may be removed from those positions and the investigation stops right and then you can only present what you have at that point I'm hoping and again I don't know the one thing I'm very encouraged by is what have you heard about the investigation by dirham nothing perfect and that's the way it should be that's absolutely the way it should be that's the way you conduct an investigation because okay for example when I read director Comey's book I literally kept saying this to myself I'm gonna explain what I was saying and I was right I got to the point where as writing it down on paper forget about what the media is saying forget about what people around don't worry about the FBI's reputation in the future just do your job the facts will determine what history will bear out whatever the facts are good or bad are gonna determine whether the FBI screwed up here or not they're gonna determine whether director Comey was wrong or whether it was right just let the facts be what they are don't try and rewrite history don't try and control the media to control the perception because the media isn't any it isn't like what it wasn't in the days of Hoover we're Hoover control the media for the FBI we control the media these days by making our cases do your case investigate your case the the evidence whatever the evidence is good or bad if you want it to lead here and it doesn't lead there goes don't worry about I take it wherever it leads you form your opinion based on the evidence that's the way it should be do you guys do you think there's a deep state interesting I never ever did my entire career never did and to some degree I still don't believe there is but what I do believe I'm on the fence about the deep state but what I do believe is there is a group of like-minded people who were in positions of power who took it upon themselves to work together toward a common cause which was bad which was to basically overthrow a legitimate election I think it's bad like a silence soft coup basically yeah do do I think there was a room where people all sat down and said well let's do step by step B step now but I do believe that there were people who sat down and said look this guy is gonna destroy the intelligence agencies he's gonna reveal sources and methods he's gonna hurt us he's gonna set us back 50 years and took it upon themselves to protect things that they had done their legacy and at the end of the day he's the president right I mean if he starts doing those things there are legal ramifications leading up to what we hear every day impeachment right but but you can't take it upon yourself I don't care who you are look Emily at the end of the day I think this is gonna put a focus on the CIA in particular people to CIA because I look at the different events that occurred involving different people for example George papadopolis I've read his book and there's many things in there I find incredibly interesting and and my takeaway on much of this is the investigation against Hillary my understanding is it was moved out of New York and brought down to Washington I'm not sure who those agents were I would not be surprised if they were not criminal division agents who did that investigation okay we think differently as criminal agents we do that logical if you're out there as a spy in a counterintelligence division you think differently totally totally differently I see mistakes made but not only that but how do you get from Step a to step B to step C I've had discussions in my Russian related case with people from the counterintelligence counterespionage division and I was stunned by the the things that they spoke about and how illogical it was because they didn't have the street experience that I had okay and I clashed with people on that look altima t I had no power and I lost I lost that fight but I was stunned and again I will be vindicated over time for all of these disputes because I'm smart enough to know if I'm gonna lose the fight stay out of the fight if I don't know I'm a hundred percent right and stay out of the fight right and so I look I think ultimately whether there's a deep state or not I don't know you know what does that really mean but I do what you said but I do like people who took it upon Excel I guess the question it really is is like when you need to give the deep state I think it's how many of those like-minded people how deep does it really go is it four or five people or is it like 50 to 100 people I mean like I always say like nothing can really be kept a secret very long in this world like if one two people nowadays right it's there so my guess what I think with the deep state is that it's a relatively small group of people under probably ten or twelve actually I think it's a small and I think you're right I don't think they get together though there's a cabal and have these meetings like like you know it's like dr. evil and his little think it's like that at all I think it's a kind of various I wouldn't get an honest out understanding about that doesn't need to be straight doesn't need to be stated almost right it's the letter yeah yeah a lot of switch top is clear tell me how the movie has impacted your life well a movie was interesting look it's it's certainly from a visibility perspective it puts me in a different plane a good position a better position and I say better because you go for great speaking well yeah but for much of my and I'll tell you how that comes about though because it comes out long before you even write your books through the movie the FBI is sought out quite often by people in the US and I say people I mean financial firms and by even governments outside of the US you know foreign governments too because we are experts at much of what we do and I was very good at anti money laundering and everybody within the FBI certainly within the New York office and many people at headquarters in Washington knew that was my passion I mean I like securities fraud it's fun for me but the money laundering part is the best part for me that's what I got my adrenaline rush from following the money chasing the money so I would often be sought out for opinions related to undercover cases involving laundering what fees should be paid how the Undercovers should speak what should he do and I'm a voracious reader of these things and of course you know past history you read about prior cases how they were successful and you formulate opinions and then you'd be creative on top of it all and so they would come to the FBI and say look we have prosecutors we and we have investigators we have judges we need your expertise can you come here and can you train us and so I started going on training missions within the u.s. to banks and brokerage firms and then I would go to to other countries and I would help other governments learn how to protect and prevent money laundering right weird real life case examples I always like to give analogies to to make it real life you know people will go out there with this high level well what is money laundering well it's placement layering and integration the movie you were doing this I was doing this so so but but trainings are different training you can get into detail there all-day events they're week-long events and that got me comfortable in front of audiences that got me comfortable in speaking and it also helped me be more comfortable with the subject matter right so the movie comes out but I'm still in the FBI I want you you should leave and make a fortune I was yeah you know if it was about the money I would have I know I guess but unfortunately for me I just loved what I was doing that and I didn't want to go and you should leave yeah I didn't want to go it took me three years thinking about it full-time to ultimately leave and go somewhere else so what is the habits when you left the FBI so just not doing I did two things one I set up a consulting side to my business where I do anti-money laundering consulting I can go into financial firms and review existing programs tell them where weaknesses are and make recommendations my specialty in that field is I love suspicious activity reporting finance firms have legal obligations to report suspicious activity I used suspicious activity reports very actively when I was an agent that developed cases I supported cases I made cases from suspicious activity reports which didn't exist when you were doing what you were doing they didn't exist back then and it is probably the greatest database of potential criminal investigations that exists bar none by far yeah I could literally come in as a brand-new agent today straight out of the Academy and make a 25 year career based on nothing but the suspicious activity report that was reported by so I go in and that's my favorite part of doing that I teach people how to write the size that that's so it's useful for us what they should really look for what they should investigate the speaking business is great for you it's taken off and I do and what's nice is I've developed four or five different presentations the primary one is about the investigation the willful wash for you yeah how it came about and I give them an inside view of what went on outside of what they get in your books I'm in the movie and I think people like that oh yeah and there's always a message in what I speak about about how these things come about and you know how a creative criminal is a dangerous criminal right they're the most dangerous criminals of all so with the training I would have been out on the speaking circuit anyway but but it took me from the low tier to the middle middle upper tiers do have a speaker's brew you get hired through I do both ninety percent of what I do I do on my own has literally work Mouse you at word of mouth no they call me having word of mouth I do one conference yeah like Gregory Coleman calm you know what I've been paying GoDaddy for the website and the email for five years and haven't set it up yet cuz I haven't had time I've been on the road so literally I set up a gmail account if I want to if people watch this here's what I wanna do how do they get in touch with you Gregory Coleman two zero one five but this I think gmail.com and let me explain Gregory combs obvious manner it's all fake honestly who you know I do see like a real cat that's not honest it's not about the money you know why it's two zero one five that's my new life that's when I left the bureau so I put in their percentages - typical gmail.com now I'll also give out my phone number it's six four six six six zero one zero one zero people saying why are you crazy giving it out it's all over the internet anyway it's a business phone it's designed for people to reach out and what has happened for me is I do one conference there's two people who then reach out to me and from those two people to other people November of 2017 Fort Lauderdale Florida I'll set this up for your listeners because this is actually very funny I'm coming down to you I speak I think at 10 o'clock you speak at two o'clock different conference on different floors I have no idea you're gonna be there I don't no clue I I'm coming down the elevator I'm due to speak at ten o'clock it's about 8:30 9 o'clock I'm coming down in my conference I have the little thing around my neck with my name cuz I'm a speaker it's and and the guy on the elevator when I get on says to me he looks me and he points to me he says dude you're never gonna believe this I don't know this guy you never gonna believe this I go what's that he goes you guys your conference you have the agent who caught the wolf of Wall Street yeah and that guy dude right I don't say anything to him and he says we have the wolf of Wall Street of course now my ears and then you called so so I go really when when when when so I find out and I basically crash your event your funny story is you know you sort of gave a mention to me there and you speak very quickly when you're doing your thing there's a guy in your audience for one of the night and I won't give the name but he's with one of the major caffeinated beverage companies there i he thought you said I was your business agent he approaches me after the thing begging me to give me access to you so that you could become a spokesman for his beverage not quite I'm not quite his business age no so that's Nick income so they can get in touch you in phone or email yeah phone or email call me I answered my own phone i I and here's why I set three priorities when I retired these are my priorities number one enjoy life have fun I can be dead tomorrow money can't go with me right if I don't want the deal if I don't want the job I don't do it right if you've never pay me big money for speaking engagement but I don't want to go there because it's not safe I don't go right I do what I want to do I'm not in a cube I don't have a thumb over me I sleep when I want I get up when I want I work when I want I travel when I want and I like that because I want to enjoy life right number two was to make some money because you can have more fun you can go more places you can do more things and number three which is very interesting and this will it deviates my life off the main courses to leave a legacy right now you had a company one time legacy it's the same thought you get to a certain point in life and you want to leave something better than what you started with let me give you some advice yes you belong on Fox News Fox News you really do belong on Fox News well look here's the issue they meet I'm a public speaker I know that you're not right I know you're not concerned you're in the middle but Friday just another like this I'm really I think I think listen like everyone they lean obviously conservative right but but I think they need a good independent voice like yours that would really round out as it's to contribute I really do he's right call look I'm gonna call on my foot on my phone I have Fox News I have the New York Post I have the Wall Street Journal I have the New York Times I I have MSNBC I get news feed from all of those sources why because I think it's the best way to stay in flight I would go on Fox News I would go on CNN in fact I have going on CNBC and but from a business perspective related to the wolf of wall sure I remember nothing to do with politics but here's the problem if I go on will ox news and and I don't talk about the wolf of Wall Street and I talk about politics people are gonna assume I'm a conservative aligned with with Trump and Fox News and people on the other side will discount me if I go on CNN people are gonna say no he's a left winger he's a Andrew McCabe and and and director Comey and the people from Fox will discount me whereas if I kind of right now look if I ever if I ever write this book I'll go on any new news meet because then then they'll see in print that I am truly unbiased yeah I'm attacking it book I just don't know that the time is right now to do that I I may or may not I don't know that may change I mean look if my life becomes 90 Buddha statues and carvings and then then I don't really care about this speaking business anymore right and I'll write my book and then I'll go out on the speaking circuit for that but it may come something yeah look I I truly would love to express my opinions on some other station like Fox I would love it I mean I'm gonna call them and say listen guys Gregory so maybe you are my business a agent special agent wait would he call you get a specially should ask yeah it's pretty name for you Alan anyway especially in Grady Coleman what a great you and honestly coming I mean is from about you know I mean this if all fb8 my agents will like you it'll be a [ __ ] great world well I think the reality and probably I know so Martha more like Mandy right wow you're an awesome right what appreciate relations thanks thank you for having me I appreciate it thanks alright guys there you go wow that was probably the best episode ever history of the wool stand for sure the most informative checks went out share your friends comment below what can I say thanks to this minute I'm still around you could have had me locked up but 30 years all right take you have a great day you [Music]

Channel: The Wolf of Wall Street

Views: 624,901

Rating: 4.9083743 out of 5

Keywords: Wolf of Wall Street, Agent Coleman, New York City, Manhattan, Wall Street, Crime, Syndicate, Greed, Wealth, NYC

Id: XvglIpgcI6M

Length: 123min 50sec (7430 seconds)

Published: Wed Oct 02 2019