[MUSIC] >> Doug: WELCOME ONCE AGAIN TO "FR. SPITZER'S UNIVERSE" AT THE VERY BUSY INTERSECTION OF FAITH AND REASON, THOUGH AT THE SAME TIME, A LOT OF PEOPLE SEEM TO BE DETOURING AROUND THOSE BOTH THESE DAYS. I'M DOUG KECK AND YOU CAN REACH US VIA EMAIL, FACEBOOK, TWITTER BECAUSE YOUR QUESTIONS ARE A BIG PART OF THE PROGRAM. AND ALL INSIGHTS INTO CATHOLICISM, WE HAVE magiscenter.com AND crediblecatholic.com AND BOTH ASSOCIATED WITH FATHER ROBERT SPITZER, AND THE MAIN PERSON ON THIS PROGRAM, HIS LATEST BOOK. CHRIST VS. SATAN IN OUR DAILY LIVES: THE COSMIC STRUGGLE BETWEEN GOOD AND EVIL AVAILABLE THROUGH ewtnRC.com FOR ALL THINGS CATHOLIC. AND ALSO, A GREAT BOOK OF THE MONTH, WE HAVE OUT THERE, MAKING A HOLY LENT FR. WILLIAM CASEY AND WE ALSO HAVE, THE FOUR LAST THINGS FR. WADE MENEZES I WANTED TO THROW IN A BOOK, REMEMBER YOUR DEATH, MOMENTO MEM ORA, AND THIS IS AVAILABLE THROUGH ewtnRC.com. IT MAY BE A LITTLE LATE LENTWISE BUT I THINK IT'S AN IMPORTANT CONCEPT, THINKING ABOUT YOUR OWN DEATH AND PUTS LIFE INTO PERSPECTIVE. AND TALKING ABOUT PERSPECTIVE, LET'S TURN OUT TO THE EAST COAST AND CHECK ON FATHER ROBERT SPITZER. HOW ARE YOU TODAY? >> I'M DOING WELL. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> IF YOU WOULD START THINGS OFF WITH A PLAYER, THAT WOULD BE GREAT. >> Father: IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, SON, AND HOLY SPIRIT. HEAVENLY FATHER WE GIVE YOU THANKS FOR THE MANY BLESSINGS TO US, THE BLESSING OF THIS MINISTRY, THE BLESSING OF THIS LENT AND ASK YOU THAT YOU HELP TO MAKE THIS LENT HOLY. SEND YOUR HOLY SPIRIT DOWN UPON DOUG, MYSELF, AND OUR WHOLE AUDIENCE THIS DAY SO THAT EVERYTHING WE DO AND SAY WILL BE BROUGHT TO FRUITION IN YOUR WILL, FOR THE GOOD OF YOUR CHURCH, KINGDOM, AND PEOPLE. WE ASK THIS THROUGH JESUS OUR LORD. AMEN. MARY, SEAT OF WISDOM, PRAY FOR US. IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, SON, AND OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. AMEN. >> Doug: AMEN! VERY GOOD. SO, BEFORE WE GET TO OUR TOPIC, LET'S TALK ABOUT A COUPLE OF THINGS THAT HAVE TRANSPIRED AND CAME OUT IN THE PRESS THAT I THINK, OR RELATE TO THE PROGRAM, AND WITH YOUR COMMENT. ARTICLE IN THE "WASHINGTON POST," URGING CATHOLICS TO AVOID THE JOHNSON AND JOHNSON CORONAVIRUS AND CHOOSE THE ALTERNATIVES, PFIZER AND MODERNA. AND THIS FOLLOWS SOMETHING THAT CAME OUT FROM THE ARCHDIOCESE OF NEW ORLEANS. THEY MADE A STATEMENT LAST WEEK. SO, THIS IS THE LATEST GUIDANCE. NOW, THIS IS INTERESTING BECAUSE THEN THE "WASHINGTON POST" TRIES TO JUXTA POST AND SAYS THE LATEST GUIDANCE CONFLICTING WITH POPE FRANCIS PROMOTING THE VATICAN, BUT THAT'S NOT TRUE, IS IT, VACCINE. >> NO, NOT TRUE. THE LOWE'SER INSTITUTE, SIX MONTHS AGO, HAVING EXAMINED ALL OF THE VARIOUS VACCINES, INDICATED THAT THE J AND J VACCINE DOES COME FROM EMBRYONIC STEM CELL LINES, NOT TANGENTIALLY OR REMOTELY EITHER. SO, FOR ALL INTENSIVE PURPOSES, J AND J HAS BEEN OFF LIMITS BY ANY OBJECTIVE STANDARD FOR A LONG TIME. AND THE NATIONAL BIO ETHICS CENTER ALSO REINFORCES THIS. THE USCCB IS SIMPLY STATING WHAT'S BEEN KNOWN FOR SEVERAL MONTHS NOW BY BOTH SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY AND THE NATIONAL CATHOLIC BIO ETHICS CENTER. AND I'M SURE THAT THE VATICAN IS GOING TO AGREE WITH THIS, TOO. DEFINITELY COMING FROM AN EMBRYONIC STRING. AND BY THE WAY, IT'S ONLY 66% EFFECTIVE. IF YOU HAVE A CHOICE BETWEEN MODERNA AND WHY WOULD YOU GET THE SINGLE SHOT WITH J AND J, 66% EFFECTIVE WHEN YOU CAN GET THE OTHER TWO PART VACCINES WITH 95% EFFECTIVE. >> Doug: RIGHT. NOW, LET ME ASK YOU THIS, WHEN YOU USED TO READ DOCTOR SUESS BOOKS, DID YOU THINK THEY WERE PROBLEMATIC AND THINK THEY SHOULD BE BANNED? >> Father: NO, I DIDN'T KNOW THERE WAS A PROBLEM WITH THE DOCTOR SUESS BOOKS, BUT I HAVE TO TELL YOU, I DID READ THEM, I DID ENJOY THEM, AND I THINK THAT GREEN EGGS AND HAM WAS MY FAVORITE. >> Doug: I WAS GOING TO ASK YOU THAT! >> Father: BUT I HAD NO IDEA. WHAT'S POSSIBLY WRONG WITH DOCTOR SUESS. >> Doug: WELL, THEY ARE BEING BANNED BY VARIOUS SCHOOL DISTRICTS, AND NOT PUBLISHING SOME OF THEM BECAUSE SOME OF THE DRAWINGS THEY SAY ARE RACIST AND SENSITIVE IMAGERY. THE ODD WAY HE DID THINGS ANDREW THINGS. BUT GREEN EGGS AND HAM, THEY HAVEN'T COME FOR THAT ONE YET, HAM AND EGGS! BUT THEY DID KNOCK DOWN MY FAVORITE BOOK, ONE ENTITLED TO THINK WHAT I SAW ON MULL BERRY STREET. AND THAT WAS ALWAYS ONE OF MY FAVORITES WHEN I WAS A KID. SO, LOTS OF THINGS GOING ON IN THE WORLD. BUT WE'RE WORRYING ABOUT THE IMPORTANT ONES, ABOUT THE NEGATIVE IMPACT OF DOCTOR SUESS WHO, BY THE WAY, AT THE TIME HE WAS WRITING AND BOOKS BEING OUT IN THE 1950'S AND 1960'S WAS CONSIDERED TOTALLY AVANT GARDE. >> WELL, WHEN I WAS YOUNG, I WAS JUST ENJOYING THE BOOK! >> ABSOLUTELY. YOU WERE NOT WOKE ENOUGH! >> Father: THAT'S TRUE! I DON'T THINK I AM TODAY. [LAUGHTER] >> Doug: HERE'S ONE OTHER STORY THAT WE GET INTO THIS, DOVETAILING INTO THE FIRST QUESTION. THIS IS A NOTE, AN ARTICLE FROM THE FINE NEWSPAPER NATIONAL CATHOLIC REGISTER WHICH THEY PUBLISH AND JIHAD SHOWS ROSARY BEADS IN MEETING WITH THE MEXICO PRESIDENT. MENTIONS THAT. AND [RAPID READING FROM THE ARTICLE] SOME PEOPLE THOUGHT IT WAS A LITTLE BIT IRONIC THAT HE WOULD MENTION, OUR LADY OF GUADALUPE, WHO IS PREGNANT, AND WHO IS OBVIOUSLY NOT ONLY THE PATRONESS OF THE AMERICAS, BUT OF THE UNBORN! >> Father: YEAH, IT IS IRONIC. I HAVE TO ADMIT, I DON'T DISAGREE WITH THE JUDGMENT. SOMETIMES THE IRONIES DO REVEAL CONTRADICTIONS THAT NEED TO BE RECONCILED. THIS IS ONE OF THEM. BUT AS I SAID, THIS IS NOT A RELIGIOUS ISSUE. YOU CAN'T JUST SAY, I'M NOT GOING TO FORCE MY CONSCIENCE ON SOMEONE BECAUSE THIS IS A NATURAL LAW ISSUE. WITH RESPECT TO THE NATURAL LAW, THINK IT IS VERY, VERY CLEAR WHEN YOU ARE KILLING AN INNOCENT PREBORN HUMAN BEING, THERE'S NOT JUST SOMETHING RELIGIOUSLY, CATHOLICALLY WRONG WITH THIS. THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG INTRINSICALLY. IT IS THE MURDER OF AN INNOCENT, INTENTIONAL KILLING OF AN INNOCENT HUMAN BEING. AND I THINK THAT EVERY ONE SHOULD AT LEAST HAVE THE DESIRE TO WANT TO PROTECT THE LIVES OF THE INNOCENT, WHETHER THEY ARE PREBORN OR POST BORN. AND JUST BECAUSE SOMEBODY SAYS, POST FACTUM, I DON'T WANT THAT BABY, YOU CAN'T DO THAT WHEN THAT BABY IS OUT OF THE WOMB. YOU CAN'T JUST SAY, I DON'T WANT THE BABY ANY MORE AND KILL THEM. YOU CAN'T DO THAT. PETER SINGER MAY WANT YOU TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT, BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE THAT SAY, AT LEAST, HERE'S AN INNOCENT HUMAN BEING AND YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE. YOU CAN GIVE THEM UP FOR ADOPTION BUT YOU CAN'T KILL THEM. SO, THINK WE HAVE TO GO BACK TO COMMON SENSE, NATURAL LAW, INTRINSIC VALUE OF EVERY HUMAN BEING AND REALLY IRRESPECTIVE OF ANY STAGE OF DEVELOPMENT. THE STAGE OF DEVELOPMENT IS MERELY ACCIDENTAL. THE MAIN POINT HERE THAT IS CLEAR IS IF THAT'S A HUMAN BEING, A BEING OF HUMAN ORIGIN. AND A SINGLE-CELLED ZYGOTE HAS EVERY SINGLE SOLITARY CELL THAT THAT HUMAN BEING WILL BE OVER THE COURSE OF HIS OR HER LIFETIME. RIGHT THERE! IF THAT'S NOT A HUMAN BEING, I JUST DON'T KNOW WHAT IS. SO, I HAVE TO TELL YOU, THREE WEEKS, MONTHS, SECOND TRIMESTER, THAT'S ALL NONSENSE. AND IF YOU HAVE A BEAUTIFUL SOFTWARE THAT YOU DEVELOPED FOR A DISK OPERATING SYSTEM AND THOUSANDS OF DISKS WORTH OF INFORMATION, SOMETHING OF THAT NATURE, BASICALLY, YOU ARE LOADING IT ON TO THE CENTRAL PROCESSING UNIT OF YOUR COMPUTER. AND YOUR FRIEND WALKS INTO THE ROOM AND SAYS, HEY, HAVE YOU LOADED ALL OF THE DISKS ON TO THE CENTRAL PROCESSING SYSTEM YET. NO, NO. 50% OF THEM ARE NOT ACTIVATED. SO, HE TAKES THE REMAINING 50% AND DESTROYS THEM ON THE SPOT. WELL, THEY ARE WORTHLESS BECAUSE AFTER ALL, THEY WERE NOT LOADED ON TO THE COMPUTER. THAT MAKES JUST AS MUCH SENSE TO DO THAT AS TO SAY, I SHOULD BE EXCUSED FOR THAT BECAUSE IT WAS WORTHLESS. THAT MAKES JUST AS MUCH SENSE TO DO THAT AS IT DOES TO KILL A PREBORN BEING, IMPOTENCIA, THAT EVERY SINGLE CELL IS THERE AND PRESENT AT THE TIME. AND NO MATTER WHAT THE STAGE IS, LOADING IT ON TO THE CENTRAL PROCESSING SYSTEM, THE STAGE OF THE ACTIVATION OF THE CELLS IS, ABSOLUTELY YOU SHOULD CONSIDER THIS TO BE A HUMAN BEING. TRYING TO MAKE SOME SORT OF DIFFERENTIATION TO SAY THE SUBSTANCE OF THE HUMAN BEING IS NOT THERE, BASED ON THE ACCIDENTAL, ACCIDENT THAT IT'S ONLY REACHED X-Y-Z STAGE OF DEVELOPMENT. AND YOU KNOW, BARTOMOLEO USED A SIMILAR ARGUMENT IN THE NEW WORLD, SOUTH AMERICA. HE USED THE SAME ARGUMENT, HE SUPPOSEDLY SAID, LOOK, YOU ARE CONFUSING SUBSTANCE AND ACCIDENTS. THESE INDIANS CLEARLY HAVE IMPOTENCIA, ALL OF THE INTELLIGENCE THEY NEED TO BE LIKE EUROPEANS IN 10-15 YEARS. THEY ARE GOING TO REACH OUR LEVEL OF DEVELOPMENT. AND THEN HIS ARGUMENT WAS, WELL, THEY ARE NOT THERE YET! AND HE SAYS, YOU CAN'T JUST KILL THEM BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T REACHED THAT STAGE OF EDUCATION. THEY HAVE MADE STRIDES IN JUST A FEW YEARS, THEY HAVE MADE STRIDES TO CATCH UP WITH EUROPEAN EDUCATION AS COMPLETELY AS THEY POSSIBLY COULD. IN, WHAT, LIKE, A HUNDRED YEARS? AND THEY MADE UP FOR WHAT WE DID OVER THE COURSE OF 1300. SO, FOR ALL INTENSIVE PURPOSES, SAME ARGUMENT. YOU CAN'T USE STAGES OF DEVELOPMENT, WHICH IS AN ACCIDENT, TO DENY THE SUBSTANCE OF THE HUMAN BEING THAT IS THERE FULLY IN IMPOTENCIA, LIVING AND THIS ACCIDENT IS ALWAYS USED, ALWAYS INTEREST TROTTED OUT TO DO THINGS THAT ARE TERRIBLY CONTRARY NOT ONLY TO HUMAN LAW, BUT THAT'S WHY WE GET HUMAN GENOCIDES AND SEEM TO BE JUSTIFIED BUT NEVER EVER CAN BE JUSTIFIED. >> Doug: AND IN A SIMPLISTIC WAY OF THINKING ABOUT IT, WHAT IF SOMEBODY COMES FROM ANOTHER PART OF THE WORLD, WITHOUT SAYING WHERE, BUT SAY MUSLIM AND IF THEY KNEW MORE THAN ANYBODY HERE, THEY WERE NOT UP TO THE LEVEL OF EDUCATION TO BE TREATED AS QUOTE, UNQUOTE, HUMAN BEINGS. >> Father: ANY TIME YOU TAKE AN EXTRINSIC TO MAKE IT AN ACCIDENT, YOU ARE REDUCING A MORE FUNDAMENTAL REALITY TO A LESS FUNDAMENTAL ONE. YOU ARE USING A LESS FUNDAMENTAL REALITY TO NEGATE THE MORE FUNDAMENTAL ONE. IT'S JUST PREPOSTEROUS, LOGICAL AND ETHICAL ERROR AND USED TO JUSTIFY MARGINALIZATION AND GENOCIDE AND EVERYTHING ELSE IN BETWEEN. >> Doug: ALL RIGHT. VERY GOOD. LET'S MOVE ON TO OUR QUESTIONS NOW. I HATE TO TELL YOU, FATHER. I KNOW THIS IS YOUR SHOW BUT THIS PERSON WROTE THIS NOTE TO ME! A NOTE TO DOUG KECK. I WATCH FATHER SPITZER'S UNIVERSE REGULARLY AND HAVE RECENTLY NOTICED THAT DOUG DOES NOT REFER TO THE PRESIDENT AS PRESIDENT BIDEN BUT AS JOE BIDEN OR BIDEN. I'LL SAY, IF I AM DOING THAT, I APOLOGIZE. I DO RESPECT THE PRESIDENT. I HAVE TWO ISSUES. FIRST, I PREFER THAT POLITICS NOT BE IN EVIDENT IN THE SHOW. SECOND, IF I AM CORRECT, I HAVE DIFFICULTY RELATING TO DE FACTO TRUMP SUPPORTING. I NOTICE HE DIDN'T SAY, FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP. BUT CONTINUING ON. IN MY OPINION, BASED UPON HIS ACTIONS AND STATEMENTS, HE IS NOT PRO-LIFE. AND HE IS TALKING ABOUT EX-PRESIDENT TRUMP. MY ASSUMPTIONS MAY BE WRONG, BUT RIGHT OR WRONG I WOULD PREFER THAT FATHER SPITZER'S UNIVERSE SHOW ENCOMPASS RELIGIOUS DISCUSSIONS AND AVOID POLITICAL MESSAGING. MILT >> Father: HEY, MILT. OKAY. GO AHEAD, DOUG. >> Doug: NO, I WAS GOING TO SAY, IN THE LAST INTERCHANGE, WHEN IT COMES TO THESE ISSUES, THESE THINGS DO RELATE TO ONE ANOTHER. IT'S NOT TALKED ABOUT, AS YOU JUST SAID, SOME POLITICAL DISCUSSION WHERE YOU ARE ALLOWED TO DISCUSS ONE OR THE OTHER. YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT NATURAL LAW, INTERNAL TRUTHS THAT ARE IMPACTING PEOPLES' LIVES, RIGHT? >> Father: YES. I WAS GOING TO SAY, MILT. I SEE THE POINT YOU ARE TRYING TO MAKE. BUT IN POINT OF FACT. THIS IS A RELIGIOUS ISSUE. I HATE TO SAY IT, BUT IT DEALS WITH INTRINSICALLY GOOD AND EVIL ACTIONS, IT CONCERNS MORALITY. AND MORALITY IS THE THEOLOGY AND RELIGION. SO, THAT'S THE FIRST THING. WE CAN'T ESCAPE THE FACT THAT ABORTION IS A RELIGIOUS ISSUE. WE'RE NOT TAKING UP POLITICS IN THE SHOW. WE'RE TAKING UP THE ISSUE OF ABORTION AND WE'RE LOOKING AT CANDIDATES' STANDS RELATIVE TO THE ISSUE, NOT VICE VERSA. WE'RE NOT TAKING UP POLITICS AND USING ABORTION AS A SECONDARY WAY OF ATTACKING THE POLITICIAN. WE'RE ACTUALLY LOOKING AT THE ISSUE OF ABORTION. ABORTION AS I JUST FINISHED SAYING IS BOTH INTRINSICALLY WRONG AND RELIGIOUSLY WRONG. BECAUSE IT IS RELIGIOUSLY AND INTRINSICALLY WRONG BECAUSE WE HAVE TO TAKE IT UP IN THE SHOW. IT'S A DEFINITE CENTRAL RELIGIOUS ISSUE. WAS THIS ISSUE IMPORTANT TO JESUS CHRIST. YES, IT WAS IMPORTANT TO JESUS CHRIST. IT MAY INTEREST YOU TO KNOW THAT ABORTION HAS BEEN OUTLAWED BY THE CHURCH SINCE THE DIDACHE. AND THIS WAS WAY BACK IN 80A.D. WE'RE TALKING BEFORE THE FIRST CENTURY. ALREADY, THERE'S AN EXPLICIT OUTLAWING OF THE CHURCH. WAS IT IMPORTANT TO JESUS? YES, ABSOLUTELY, IT WAS. SO, MILT I'M AFRAID I CAN'T NOT TALK ABOUT IT. I HAVE TO TALK ABOUT IT. AND I DON'T THINK IT'S DE FACTO TRUMP SUPPORTING. I THINK WHAT IT IS TO RECOGNIZE THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS DOING A LOT OF PRO LIFE ACTIVITIES, IN POINT OF FACT THE CASE. AND OUR POINT HERE IS, THAT'S WORTH VOTING ON DEFINITELY THAT IS WORTH VOTING ON. AND WE'RE TALKING KILLING HUMAN BEINGS ON A MASSIVE SCALE. THAT'S AN ISSUE WORTH VOTING ON. THAT'S LIKE SAYING, WELL I PREFER THAT THE GERMAN BISHOPS NOT KEEP TALKING ABOUT THE PERSECUTION OF THE JEWISH PEOPLE BY THE NAZIS. STOP IT. I MEAN, THEY ARE A PERFECTLY GOOD PARTY. BUT AT SOME POINT, YOU HAVE TO SAY, WAIT A MINUTE HERE. WE DO HAVE A RELIGIOUS ISSUE HERE. >> Doug: EXACTLY. AND I THINK THE OTHER PART WITH THIS, WHETHER WE LIKE IT OR NOT, THERE SEEMS TO BE THIS EMPHASIS BEING PUT ALL THE TIME ON BEING A DEVOUT CATHOLIC. SO, IF SOMEONE IS GOING TO COME FORWARD IN CATHOLIC LIFE AND PUT THEMSELVES OUT THERE AS A DEVOUT CATHOLIC, ONE WATCHING ONE'S ACTIONS COULD BECOME CONFUSED OVER WHAT THE CHURCH'S OFFICIAL POSITION OF WHAT SOMETHING MAY OR MAY NOT BE. >> Father: PRECISELY. EXACTLY. >> Doug: OKAY. THE NEXT QUESTION. THIS QUESTION IS FOR YOU, A CLARIFICATION. DEAR FR. SPITZER, PLEASE CLARIFY THIS QUESTION. DURING MOTHER ANGELICA'S TIME, THE TERM BODY, BLOOD, SOUL AND DIVINITY WAS USED IN REFERENCE TO THE HOLY EUCHARIST. SHE USED TO SAY THAT A LOT. NOW SOUL AND DIVINITY HAVE BEEN DROPPED. WHY? BOB NOW, I'M NOT SURE WHAT HE IS REFERRING TO. >> Father: I'M NOT SURE WHAT YOU ARE REFERRING TO EITHER. I CERTAINLY USE, BODY, BLOOD, SOUL AND DIVINITY. I HEAR LOTS OF OTHER PEOPLE ON EWTN USING IT. AND LOTS OF OTHER COMMENTATORS. I DON'T THINK IT REALLY HAS BEEN DROPPED, NO. MAYBE IN YOUR CIRCLES OR SOMEWHERE IT SEEMS TO HAVE BEEN DROPPED. BUT IN POINT OF FACT, SOUL AND DIVINITY IS VERY MUCH PART OF THE FORMULA TO THIS DAY. AND MOST THEOLOGIANS ACKNOWLEDGE IT BECAUSE IT IS THE WHOLE OF JESUS CHRIST. AND THE WHOLE OF JESUS CHRIST INCLUDES HIS DIVINE PERSON AS WELL AS HIS SOUL. >> Doug: IT'S PROBABLY MORE OF A SHORT HAND WHEN SOMEONE IS DISCUSSING, THAT IS NOT THERE. BUT THE ISSUE WE'RE FIGHTING TODAY IS NOT THAT, IT'S GETTING PEOPLE TO BELIEVE THE FIRST PART! >> Father: THAT'S TRUE, TOO. OH, YEAH. IT'S PRETTY DISMAL OUT THERE, I HAVE TO SAY. WE HAVE TO DO A JOB. AND THE USCCB BY THE WAY IS PUTTING TOGETHER A LITTLE COMMITTEE TO TRY TO ENCOURAGE EVANGELIZATION WITH RESPECT TO THE EUCHARIST GOING FORWARD. AND I WAS JUST ASKED TO BE ON THE COMMITTEE. SO, HOPEFULLY, WE CAN DO SOME GOOD. >> THAT SOUNDS GOOD. THIS HARKENS BACK TO THE FIRST ONE WE HAD. DEAR FR. SPITZER, I BEGAN WATCHING EWTN DURING THE LOCKDOWN FOR THE DAILY MASS WHICH LED TO MY VIEWING OTHER PROGRAMS. I THINK EWTN FOCUSES TOO MUCH ON ABORTION AND NOT ENOUGH ON THE ENVIRONMENT. IN GENESIS, GOD GIVES MAN DOMINION OVER THE EARTH, NOT PERMISSION TO DESTROY IT. IF MAN WAS MADE IN GOD'S IMAGE THEN ALL CREATURES MUST BE MADE IN GOD'S IMAGE AS WELL. THOU SHALL NOT KILL WOULD EXTEND TO ANIMALS TOO. FOCUSING ON JUST ABORTION IS ANTI-ENVIRONMENTAL AND POLARIZING AND JUST POLITICAL. ANDREA >> Father: OKAY. AND RA, THE WORD JUST, WE'RE NOT JUST FOCUSING ON ABORTION. ALL KINDS OF ISSUES COME UP HERE. IT IS TRUE TO SAY THAT OUR BISHOPS, THE USCCB WHO ARE DECIDEDLY NOT ANTI-ENVIRONMENT HAVE PRIORITIZED CERTAIN KINDS OF ISSUES. SO, ANDREA, WHAT YOU HAVE TO REALIZE, NOT JUST THE BISHOPS, BUT EWTN AND OTHERS, SAYING ABORTION IS THE HIGHEST PRIORITY ISSUE BECAUSE IT IS THE MASSIVE KILLING OF PREBORN INNOCENT HUMAN BEINGS. WHAT SHOULD TAKE PRECEDENCE OVER THAT? NOTHING. BECAUSE IT IS AN INTRINSIC EVIL. IT'S HAPPENING ON A MASSIVE SCALE AND BEING JUSTIFIED ON A MASSIVE SCALE. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THAT, THAT'S THE FIRST THING. AND THE BISHOPS AS I JUST SAID, THEY HAVEN'T SAID ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES ARE WRONG. THEY ARE SAYING IT'S A SECONDARY ISSUE COMPARED TO THE PRE-EMINENT MORAL ISSUE. SO, THERE IS A LOT OF DISCUSSION ABOUT ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES. AND OBVIOUSLY, IF THERE ARE QUESTIONS CONCERNING THE ENVIRONMENT, I'M HAPPY TO GET THOSE QUESTIONS. AND OF COURSE, WE HAVE TO BE RESPONSIBLE TO OUR ENVIRONMENT. OF COURSE, WE NEED STEWARDSHIP OF OUR ENVIRONMENT AND WE SHOULD BE REDUCING CARBON FOOTPRINT WITHIN THE CULTURE SIMPLY BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WE DO HAVE ENVIRONMENTAL PROBLEMS. SURELY WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR OCEANS ARE CLEAN AND ATTEMPT IN EVERY WAY WE CAN, EVERY TECHNOLOGY AND RESPONSIBLE HUMAN BEHAVIOR TO CLEAN UP OUR AIR AND SO FORTH. SO, ALL OF THESE THINGS ARE VERY, VERY IMPORTANT, TO ME, TO ALL OF US. HERE'S THE THING, THOUGH. WHAT USUALLY GETS YOU COPY TIME OR PRESS TIME OR AIR TIME ARE ISSUES THAT ARE REALLY CONTROVERTED. ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES ARE MUCH, MUCH MUCH LESS CONTRA VERTED THAN THE ABORTION ISSUE. AND SOMETIMES PEOPLE THINK, WELL, YOU OUGHT TO BE COVERING IT JUST AS MUCH. NO. IT'S REALLY WHAT NEEDS TO BE COVERED. WHAT'S BEING IGNORED. WHAT IS OF PRE-EMINENT STATUS IN THE MORAL WORLD THAT'S BEING IGNORED. AND THAT'S WHY IT'S GETTING MORE COVERAGE, NOT BECAUSE WE'RE SAYING IN SOME SENSE THAT ENVIRONMENT NEEDS TO BE IGNORED. BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I WANT TO DISPUTE IN WHAT YOU ARE SAYING, THAT'S A FALSE DICHOTOMY AND LOGIC WHEN YOU SAY, BECAUSE I'M DOING X, THAT MEANS I'M PURPOSELY DOING Y. I'M PURPOSELY EXCLUDING Y. AND THAT'S NOT BEEN PROVEN, ANDREA. WE'RE NOT DOING THAT. WE'RE NOT PURPOSELY EXCLUDING Y. WE ARE, THOUGH, POSITIVELY PUTTING A LOT OF EMPHASIS ON THE ABORTION ISSUE BECAUSE IT NEEDS TO HAVE EMPHASIS BECAUSE OF THE NEGLECT, BECAUSE OF THE CONTROVERSY, INTRINSIC CONTROVERSY PRESENT IN THE POLITICAL REGIME. SO, NO, NO, WE'RE NOT DISPLACING ENVIRONMENT BY THE COVERAGE OF ABORTION OR JUST TRYING TO TREAT IT IN A WAY THAT NATURALLY BELONGS. IT'S NOT THE SAME DEGREE OF CONTROVERSY OR THE SAME DEGREE OF SERIOUSNESS. >> Doug: ABSOLUTELY. AND LET ME POINT OUT, AS YOU POINTED OUT SO WELL, OUR JOB IS TO FILL IN THE BLANKS THAT ARE OUT THERE. WE ASSUME THAT PEOPLE ARE CONSUMING INFORMATION FROM ALL RESOURCES. AND WE HOPE TO BE THE CATHOLIC RESOURCE. SO, YOU KNOW, IF YOU ARE GETTING A LOT OF PARTICULAR PERSPECTIVE SOMEPLACE ELSE, YOU DON'T NECESSARILY NEED IT SPENT ON HERE AT EWTN. THE OTHER POINT I WANTED TO MENTION, FROM A THEOLOGICAL PERSPECTIVE. I WANTED TO ASK YOU TO POINT THIS ONE OUT. IF MAN WAS MADE IN GOD'S IMAGE THEN ALL CREATURES MUST BE MADE IN GOD'S IMAGE AS WELL. IS THAT TRUE? >> Father: NO! ABSOLUTELY FALSE. BY THE WAY, THAT'S A LEAPING NON SEQUITUR. AND HUMAN BEINGS ARE MADE IN GOD'S IMAGE AND ALL OTHER CREATURES ARE MADE IN THE SAME WAY THAT HUMAN BEINGS ARE. I THINK THE BIBLE PRECISELY HAS THE OPPOSITE MESSAGE. CERTAINLY THAT OTHER ANIMALS ARE INCLUDED TO BE ON THE SAME LEVEL AND STATUS AS HUMAN BEINGS, THAT IS NOT LOGICALLY NECESSITATED AND CERTAINLY IS NOT BIOLOGICALLY FACTUALLY SHOWN TO BE THE CASE EITHER. AND BY THE WAY, JUST FOR YOUR INFORMATION, EVEN THE HIGHEST TRAINED CHIMPANZEE, LIKE NIMCHIMSKI, LEARNING UP TO 150 WORDS IN AMERICAN SIGN LANGUAGE CANNOT PASS THE SIMPLEST OF SYNTAX TESTS. THE CHIMP CANNOT DISTINGUISH BETWEEN MAN BITE DOG AND DOG BITES MAN. AND YOU KNOW, IT MAY SEND A 2-YEAR-OLD INTO LAUGHTER BUT THE CHIMP DOESN'T GET IT. AND THE REASON IS, THE CHIMP HAS NO CONCEPTUAL IDEAS WHATSOEVER. SO, CONCEPTUAL IDEA IS ONE THAT FORMS A PREDICATE OR A DIRECT OBJECT, A RELATIONAL IDEA RATHER THAN A PERCEPTUAL IDEA WHERE YOU ARE CORRELATING ONE IMAGE WITH THE WORD, LIKE THE IMAGE OF A BANANA, THE REAL BANANA THAT YOU PUT INTO YOUR MOUTH, ET CETERA. AND YOU SEE THE SIGN FOR BANANA AND THEN YOU SEE A BANNA. THE CHIMP GETS IT, IT'S PERCEPTUAL. AND IT STANDS FOR A GROUP OF OBJECTS OR INTERRELATIONSHIP WITH THE OBJECTS. THE CHIMP CAN'T DO IT AND I WROTE A WHOLE BOOK ON IT CALLS THE SOUL'S UPWARD YEARNING. AND I READ IT BECAUSE THE CHIMP CAN'T GET TO A CONCEPTUAL IDEA BECAUSE THE CHIMP DOESN'T HAVE WHAT WE CALL THE NOTION OF BEING. THE CHIMP DOESN'T HAVE A PURE RELATIONAL CONTEXT THROUGH WHICH HE CAN GENERATE ABSTRACTIONS. AND THE REASON THE CHIMP DOESN'T HAVE THAT IS BECAUSE THE CHIMP DOESN'T HAVE A SOUL. THE CHIMP DOESN'T HAVE A HUMAN SOUL. WHAT DID HE EVER ENSHE EIGHTHS HUMAN BEINGS FROM CHIMP IS PRECISELY THAT TRANSCENDENT SOUL. AND BACK SIX MONTHS AGO, HECK, SOMEBODY ASKED THE QUESTION, WHEN THE DIVINE PART, WHEN DO HUMAN BEINGS GET A SOUL? AND I SAY, THE BEST IDENTIFIABLE MARKER IS 70,000 YEARS AGO. 70,000 YEARS AGO, SUDDEN HUMAN ACTIVITY DEVELOPED AND COMPLETELY DIFFERENTIATED OUR ACTIVITIES FROM THE PREVIOUS HOMO SAPIEN, SAPIEN ACTIVITIES. OUR ANCESTORS, ADAM AND EVE GOING BACK BASICALLY 2,000 YEARS AGO. AND FROM WHAT I THINK THEY WERE JUST SITTING IN THE BORDER OF ANGOLA, CRACKING COCONUTS, DOING NOTHING BASICALLY. EATING BANANAS. AND SUDDENLY, WHAT DO THEY DO, THEY GO IN THIS GREAT GEOGRAPHICAL EXPLORATION, GO TO THE TOP OF AFRICA, THEY CROSS OVER THE STRAITS, GO TO EUROPE, ASIA, AND THEY EVEN CROSS THE OCEANS OVER TO INDONESIA AND ALL THE WAY TO THE TIP OF NORTHERN EUROPE, CROSS THE ARCTIC LAND BRIDGE, GO OVER TO WHAT'S NOW ALASKA AND NORTH AMERICA, COME ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE SOUTHERN TIP OF SOUTH AMERICA. AND THEY DO THIS IN 5,000 TO 10,000 YEARS? AND FOR 130,000 YEARS, THEY ARE JUST SITTING THERE EATING BANANAS AND CRACKING COCONUTS. YEAH, THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED. AND WHILE THEY WERE DOING IT, THEY WERE COMING UP WITH CONCEPTUAL IDEAS AND DOING MORAL REASONING -- AND BY THE WAY WE HAVE VERY, VERY GOOD ANTHROPOLOGICAL EVIDENCE, CAVE DRAWINGS THAT HAVE SYMBOLIC REFERENCE AND THEOLOGICAL AND RELIGIOUS REFERENCE TO IT. AND THEY STARTED BURYING THE DEAD WITH ALL KINDS OF OBJECTS TO BE USED IN AN AFTER LIFE ALONG WITH RELIGIOUSLY RELATED TRINKETS, LION'S HEAD AND BODIES AND YOU KNOW, ALL OF A SUDDEN, 70,000 YEARS LATER, HOMO MATH MAT CUSS, HOMO LINGUISTA, MAN WITH CONCEPTUAL AND SIN TACTICAL LANGUAGE AND HOMO SYMBOLUS, AND EVEN THE HOMOETHCUS AND EVERYTHING ELSE UNDER THE SUN. YOU THINK ALL OF THIS HAPPENED BY SOME NATURAL GENERATION? A SWITCH WAS FLIPPED IN THE BRAIN? NO. SOMETHING HAPPENED: GOD! GOD I AM CONVINCED GAVE THE FIRST HUMAN BEINGS A TRANSCENDENT SOUL THAT ENABLED HUMAN BEINGS TO BE CAPABLE OF ALL OF THIS. I HAVE A WHOLE BOOK ON THIS. IF YOU WANT, YOU CAN JUST GO TO crediblecatholic.com AND CLICK ON THE BIG BOOK THERE. GO TO VOLUME 2. READ VOLUME 2, AND YOU WILL BE FASCINATED BECAUSE I LINK ALL OF THESE CAPABILITIES TO ALL OF THE GOOD MEDICAL EVIDENCE THAT WE HAVE OF NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCES BASICALLY SHOWING THAT YOU HAVE A HUMAN SOUL THAT'S GOING TO SURVIVE BODILY DEATH. NO EVIDENCE FOR THIS IN ANIMALS. AND BY THE WAY, THAT SAME HUMAN SOUL IS WHAT PRODUCES ALL OF THOSE OTHER ACTIVITIES. >> Doug: VERY GOOD. WE NEED TO TAKE A BREAK RIGHT NOW. AND LET'S TAKE THAT BREAK, FATHER. VERY WELL EXPLAINED. WE HAVE MUCH MORE AHEAD. YOU THOUGHT THAT WAS SOMETHING! STAY WITH US! [MUSIC] [MUSIC] >> Doug: THANK YOU FOR STAYING WITH US RIGHT HERE ON "FR. SPITZER'S UNIVERSE." GOING BACK TO FATHER, WE'LL HAVE MORE ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS HERE. HERE'S ONE THAT RELATES TO LENT. OKAY. DEAR FATHER SPITZER, I LISTEN TO EVENING. I HAVE LEARNED A GREAT DEAL ABOUT MANY THINGS. I WAS QUITE UPSET TO HEAR YOU SAY THIS WEEK THAT YOU WOULD NOT GIVE UP YOUR NIGHTLY BEER FOR LENT. I THINK THIS IS A COUPLE WEEKS OLD. MAN, OH, MAN, FATHER, BEER IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU NEED TO GIVE UP FOR LENT! PLEASE SEE IF YOU CAN. SINCERELY, MRS. SHIELDS. >> Father: MRS. SHIELDS, I DID GIVE UP MY BEER FOR LENT. I ANNOUNCED THE FIRST WEEK THAT I DID CHANGE MY MIND. I DID IT! AND I HAVEN'T TOUCHED A BEER SINCE. QUITE FRANKLY, IT WAS A GREAT DECISION AND THANK YOU FOR THE ADVICE. I THINK IT WAS VERY SOUND ADVICE. >> Doug: THANK YOU, MRS. SHIELDS. OKAY. NEXT UP. DEAR FATHER SPITZER, I WANT TO PUT TOGETHER A LENTEN CARE PACKAGE FOR MY TWO ADULT CHILDREN, WHO WERE RAISED CATHOLIC BUT ARE NOT CURRENTLY PRACTICING. I WILL BE PRAYING THE ROSARY ON TWO SEPARATE ROSARIES EACH DAY THROUGH LENT AND WILL BE GIVING THESE ROSARIES TO THEM AT THE END OF LENT. I DON'T WANT TO OVERWHELM THEM WITH TOO MUCH MATERIAL, BUT WOULD LIKE TO GIVE THEM A BIBLE AND AM ALSO CONSIDERING SAINT AUGUSTINE'S CONFESSIONS, C.S. LEWIS' THE SCREWTAPE LETTERS, AND YOUR LATEST BOOK CHRIST VERSUS SATAN IN OUR DAILY LIVES. DO YOU HAVE ANY OTHER SUGGESTIONS? MARK. >> Father: MARK, I DO THINK, AND I HAVE CERTAINLY USED MY BOOK, CHRIST VS. SATAN IN MY DAILY LIVES, AND I HAVE WITH YOUNG PEOPLE IN 20'S AND THEY HAVE FOUND IT TO BE USEFUL. SO, I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT ST. AUGUSTINE'S CONFESSIONS DID INFLUENCE ME IN COLLEGE BUT YOU SORT OF HAVE TO HAVE A PHILOSOPHICAL MIND FOR THAT. IF YOUR CHILDREN DO, COULDN'T HAVE A MORE ARTICULATE BOOK. SO IF THEY ARE THAT WAY, THEY MIGHT LIKE THAT. NOW, C.S. LEWIS HAS GOOD ARGUMENTS, THINK THE SCREWTAPE LETTERS, VERY HUMOROUS. BUT I THINK MAYBE ONE THAT YOU SHOULD THINK ABOUT IS THE GREAT DIVORCE. IN THERE, THAT IS A TREMENDOUS DEFENSE AGAINST THE VIRTUES OF THE DEADLY SINS. IT'S ABOUT A BUS RIDE GOING FROM HELL TO HEAVEN. AND MOST OF THE PEOPLE ON THE BUS RIDE CHOOSE TO GO BACK TO HELL BECAUSE, THEY HAVE VARIOUS EXCUSES, BUT YOU REALLY WANT TO READ THE BOOK BECAUSE IT'S VERY REVELATORY HOW SIN ETCHES ITS WAY INTO OUR HEART SO DEEPLY THAT PEOPLE ACTUALLY PICK HELL OVER HEAVEN. SO, IT'S INGENIOUSLY WRITTEN. NOW, I WOULD STAY MORE ON THAT LEVEL FIRST THAN I WOULD MAYBE GOING STRAIGHT TO ST. AUGUSTINE BECAUSE I THINK THAT ST. AUGUSTINE IS A TOUGH RODE TO HOE FOR SOMEBODY WHO IS MAYBE NOT QUITE IN THE PHILOSOPHICAL MIND. BUT IF YOU ARE, HE IS REALLY, REALLY GOOD. BUT DEPENDS ON YOUR KIDS. SO, C.S. LIEU SIS ALWAYS A GOOD PLACE TO START. AND THERE ARE SOME OTHER ONES THAT MIGHT BE HELPFUL. I HAVE A VERY SIMPLE ONE MYSELF, STARTING A PRAYER LIFE AND IT'S CALLED FIVE PILLARS OF THE SPIRITUAL LIFE. IT'S SIMPLE, SMALL, AND JUST KIND OF GIVES YOU HINTS ON HOW TO START A PRAYER LIFE IF PEOPLE ARE NOT THERE YET. SO, REMEMBER, INTELLECTUAL CONVERSION OFTENTIMES PRECEDES SPIRITUAL CONVERSION AND MORAL CONVERSION. SO, IF YOU CAN HELP YOUR KIDS THEY CAN SEE HOW IMPORTANT THE MASS AND EUCHARIST IS. ONE OF THE PROBLEMS IS, A LOT OF KIDS JUST DON'T KNOW HOW IMPORTANT THE SACRAMENT OF RECONCILIATION AND THE HOLY EUCHARIST IS. NOT JUST FOR PRESERVING OUR FAITH AND GROWING CLOSER TO THE LORD, THAT CERTAINLY, BUT ALSO, HOW IMPORTANT THEY ARE FOR DEFEATING SATAN. AND MAYBE THEY DISCOUNT SATAN. THEY DON'T EVEN BELIEVE IN THE EXISTENCE OF SATAN IN THEIR LIVES. SO, THINK THAT THE CHRIST VERSUS SATAN WOULD HAVE A SALUTORY -- BY THE WAY, THE SCREWTAPE LETTERS, WELL IT'S A GREAT BOOK. BUT ONE MAY DISCOUNT IT AS BEING HUMOROUS EVEN THOUGH HE HAS AT THE BEGINNING, THE DEVIL IN RED TIGHTS WHERE UNCLE SCREWTAPE IS TELLING WORMWOOD, JUST, YOU KNOW, WHENEVER HE GETS THE IDEA THAT THERE'S A MALEVOLENT FORCE OUT THERE TRYING TO SEDUCE HIM TO HELL. JUST GIVE HIM THE CARTOON FIGURE OF THE FIGURE IN THE RED TIGHTS, TRIDENT AND TAIL AND YOU CAN GET HIM LAUGHING AND CONVINCED. WELL, THE DEVIL'S BEST TRICK, OF COURSE, IS TO STAY AS HIDDEN AS POSSIBLE. HE'S DOING A PRETTY GOOD JOB OF IT IN THE LIVES OF PEOPLE. SO, THAT'S WHY IN THE TOP THREE BOOKS, CHRIST VERSUS SATAN, I PUT THE EXORCISMS IN THERE TO START WITH. SO, IF YOU THINK THE DEVIL IS NOT REAL, HERE HE IS IN FULL COLOR. >> Doug: AND THERE'S A GREAT RECORDING, JOHN KLEES FROM MONTY PYTHON DID THAT WAS QUITE HUMOROUS. OKAY. LET'S GET BACK TO OUR QUESTIONS. DEAR FR. SPITZER, AS AN RN OF MORE THAN 25 YEARS' SERVICE THAT INCLUDED CRITICAL CARE IN A PROMINENT CATHOLIC HOSPITAL, I SERVED ON THE BIOETHICS COMMITTEE. WHAT IS WRONG FOR ANYONE TO GO TO JESUS AT THE TIME OF DEATH? MUST EVERYONE HAVE THEIR HEART SHOCKED AND BE PLACED ON A VENTILATOR ONCE THEY HAVE NO PULSE, RESPIRATION AND BLOOD PRESSURE? NANCY. >> Father: NO, NANCY. NO. YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO THAT. YOU CAN ACTUALLY REQUEST A NON RESUSCITATION ORDER WHICH WOULD BE CONSIDERED EXTRAORDINARY MEANS. AND WHAT I ENCOURAGE YOU TO DO, A GREAT LITTLE ESSAY AT THE NATIONAL CATHOLIC BIO ETHICS CENTER, PUT THAT INTO YOUR GOOGLE AND THE ESSAY TALKS ABOUT EXTRAORDINARY MEANS VERSUS NON EXTRAORDINARY MEANS. YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE PUT ON A VENTILATOR. AND THAT AGAIN IS AN EXTRAORDINARY MEANS. THERE'S A WHOLE LIST OF CRITERIA. AND BY THE WAY, THE NATIONAL BIO ETHICS CENTER IS A VERY GOOD AND REPUTABLE CENTER, VERY ORTHODOX, GIVING YOU A COMPLETE EXPLANATION OF WHAT'S REQUIRED. AND ORDINARY MEANS, OF COURSE, HYDRATION, NUTRITION ARE REQUIRED. HOWEVER, VENTILATION, RESUSCITATION, ALL OF THESE KINDS OF THINGS AND ARE THERE ON THE LIST OF WHAT'S CALLED EXTRAORDINARY MEANS. YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE THOSE EXTRAORDINARY MEANS ADMINISTERED TO YOU. SO, JUST GO, IF YOU WANT A COMPLETE LIST, GO TO THE NATIONAL CATHOLIC BIO ETHICS CENTER ON GOOGLE AND PUT INTO THE SEARCH ENGINE, EXTRAORDINARY MEANS. YOU CAN GET A LITTLE ARTICLE THERE, AND YOU CAN ALSO TAKE A LOOK AT THE VARIOUS CATHOLIC INSTRUMENTS THAT THEY HAVE. AND FOR WHAT'S REQUIRED OF WHAT'S REQUIRED AND NOT REQUIRED. AND EVEN, YOU CAN PUT TOGETHER A LITTLE, AN ORDER, FOR YOUR RELATIVES TO SIGN THAT THEY AGREE, CATHOLIC CHURCH TEACHING RELATIVE TO LIFE-PROLONGING TREATMENTS FOR YOU IN THE HOSPITALS. SO, THERE'S PLENTY OF, NO, YOU DON'T, THE SHORT ANSWER IS, NO, EVERYBODY DOESN'T HAVE TO BE SHOCKED OR RESUSCITATED OR PUT ON A VENTILATOR. >> RIGHT. I THINK THERE'S CONFUSION OVER WHAT IS EXTRAORDINARY AND ORDINARY MEANS MANY TIMES FOR PEOPLE. AND THE OTHER ISSUE, PROBLEMS SEEMS TODAY, WE'RE DEALING WITH MORE AND MORE, NOT THE FACT THAT PEOPLE ARE OPTING TO SAY, I'LL SIGN AN DNR, BUT THE PROBLEM IS, THEY WOULD LIKE TO COME BACK AND THEY ARE NOT RESUSCITATING THEM! >> Father: YEAH, THAT IS ALSO A BIG HUGE PROBLEM. AND WHEN YOU HAVE A POWER OF ATTORNEY OR VARIOUS KINDS OF DESIRES THAT YOU WANT MANIFEST. LET'S SAY YOU DO WANT TO BE RESUSCITATED. AND HAVE YOU TO FIND AND CHOOSE THE RIGHT PERSON TO GIVE A DURABLE POWER OF ATTORNEY TO AND NO THIS PERSON WANTS TO BE RESUSCITATED SO THEY CAN INSIST ON THAT WITH THE MEDICAL PROFESSION. AND THEY WILL BE REU.S.S.ITATED UNLESS TOLD -- RESUSCITATE HAD NOT UNLESS TOLD NOT TO. AND SOME PHYSICIANS MAKE UP THE RESUSCITATED, DO NOT RESUSCITATE WITHOUT ANY KIND OF CONSULTATION WITH THE FAMILY, JUST ON THE ORDERS. >> RIGHT. A LOT OF TIMES, PEOPLE HAVE IDEAS OF ALL OF THESE WIRES, ALL HOOKED UP TO THESE THINGS AND THEY SIGN THIS DNR AND THEY ARE IN 50S OR 60S, HAVE A HEART ATTACK, AND YOU KNOW, I HAD A RELATIVE. I SAID, DO YOU REALIZE YOU SIGNED A DNR AND TECHNICALLY IF WE WERE NOT HERE, THEY COULD NOT HAVE RESUSCITATED YOU. YOU ARE THINKING ABOUT THE INTENTION OF WHAT MAY HAPPEN 20 YEARS FROM NOW. AND YOU HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL. >> YOU DO. ABSOLUTELY. >> SO, LET'S TALK ABOUT CHRIST VERSUS SATAN IN OUR DAILY LIVES. WE STARTED TO TALK ABOUT THIS WITH THE PARABLE OF THE PRODIGAL SON. TALKING ABOUT JESUS WITH SO MANY ASSURANCES OF HIS UNCONDITIONAL LOVE AND FORGIVENESS, AND HEALING GRACE. THEN WE GET TO THE PRODIGAL SON. ALWAYS THE QUESTION. WOULD THE PRODIGAL SON HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN IF HE DIDN'T COME BACK. IF HE WAS NOT GOING TO BE FORGIVEN, ISN'T JESUS PUTTING CONDITIONS ON HIS LOVE. >> Father: WELL, HERE'S THE THING. NOT JESUS PUTTING, NOT PUTTING ANY CONDITIONS ON JESUS' LOVE. THE CONDITION FALLS TO THE PERSON WHO HAS FREE CHOICE. THE SON ALWAYS HAS THE CHOICE TO MAKE THAT HUMILIATING FORGIVE -- DECISION TO GO BACK TO HIS FATHER, BEG FOR FORGIVENESS AND ASK TO BE TREATED LIKE A SERVANT BECAUSE OF ALL OF THE TERRIBLE THINGS HE DID. YOU KNOW, IN FIRST CENTURY IN JUDAISM IT WAS TERRIBLE. YOU BETRAY YOUR COUNTRY, GOD, TORAH, FAMILY, AND EVEN THE PRESCRIPTIONS OF RITUAL PURITY. YOU ARE BASICALLY RIGHT ON THE EDGE OF DENYING JUST ABOUT EVERYTHING. SO, YOU KNOW, THIS PERSON, HE DOES HAVE TO COME TO HIS SENSES. THE FATHER IS NOT GOING TO ACCEPT HIM BACK IF THE SON DOESN'T WANT TO BE ACCEPTED BACK IF THE SON DOESN'T ASK TO BE ACCEPTED BACK. SO, THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT. WE ARE FREE HUMAN BEINGS. IF YOU WANT GOD'S SALVATION, GOD'S GRACE. IF YOU WANT GOD'S FORGIVENESS AND REDEMPTIVE POWER, YOU HAVE TO ASK FOR IT, PRAY FOR IT. GOD CAN'T JUST SHOVE IT DOWN ON TO YOU WITHOUT ACCEDING TO IT. SO, DO YOU HAVE TO DO IT BEFOREHAND. SO, I SAY, ALWAYS SAFE TO DO IT BEFOREHAND! I'M NOT SAYING THAT THINGS DON'T HAPPEN LIKE JOHN VIANNEY, LIKE A PERSON JUMPS OFF THE BRIDGE AND GOD GIVES HIM ON THE WAY DOWN, INTO THE WATER, RIGHT, GIVES HIM AN OPTION AT THE LAST MINUTE TO REPENT AND HE DOES. THAT CERTAINLY COULD HAPPEN WITHIN THE UNCONDITIONAL LOVE OF GOD. HOWEVER, WHY WOULD YOU TAKE A CHANCE? WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT IF YOU WERE NOT ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN OF WHAT YOUR STATUS WAS BEFORE GOD AND WHAT YOUR FREE CHOICE WAS BEFORE GOD WHEN YOU ARE LIVING YOUR LIFE. JUST NOW, NOW IS THE TIME TO START. NOW IS THE TIME TO GO TO THE LORD. NOW IS THE TIME TO ASK FOR HIS GRACE. NOW IS THE TIME TO ASK FOR SALVATION. IF YOU ARE GOING TO DO THAT, THEN OF COURSE, YOU WANT TO EXCEED TO FOLLOWING HIM. DON'T TAKE A CHANCE WITH THE EVIL ONE, HE HE IS VERY SEDUCTIVE AND DOES ALL KINDS OF THINGS TO PREVENT YOU AND KEEP YOU FROM TURNING BACK TO GOD. DON'T THINK HE CAN'T BULLY YOU OUT OF IT THE MORE YOU KIND OF ACCEDE TO ALL OF HIS GIFTS AND INFLUENCES, THE EVIL SPIRIT. SO, ONE THING THAT YOU REALLY HAVE TO DO, NOW DECIDE. AS JESUS SAYS, NOW IS THE TIME! DECIDE NOW TO GO WITH GOD, TO OPEN YOURSELF TO HIS SALVATION. AND OF COURSE, THAT MEANS GOING TO THE CHURCH, GOING BACK TO CHURCH. AND THAT MEANS TRYING TO FOLLOW HIS MORAL PRESCRIPTIONS. AND THAT MEANS FOLLOWING THE SACRAMENT OF RECONCILIATION, IF YOU ARE A CATHOLIC AND RECEIVING THE HOLY EUCHARIST. SO, GO. DON'T DELAY. THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT. WE DON'T WANT TO DELAY AND SAY, OH, I'M JUST COUNTING ON GOD'S UNCONDITIONAL LOVE. NO. YOU ALSO HAVE TO COUNT ON YOUR DISPOSITION OF YOUR FREEDOM. NOT ONLY AT THE TIME OF YOUR DEATH BUT PRIOR TO YOUR DEATH WHEN YOU ARE COMING UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF THE EVIL SPIRIT AND YOU WILL. SO, THAT'S THE MAIN THING TO CONSIDER. >> Doug: THIS REMINDS ME OF YEARS AGO, I DON'T HEAR IT ANY MORE, BUT THERE USED TO BE SOMETHING CALLED THE SIN OF PRESUMPTION. DOES THAT FALL INTO THIS A LITTLE BIT? >> Father: OH, ABSOLUTELY. YEAH, I PRESUME GOD WILL SAVE ME AND I'LL GO TO HEAVEN. BUT YOU KNOW, IT REALLY DEPENDS ON YOUR FREE CHOICE, WHAT YOUR ACTIVITIES HAVE BEEN. IT REALLY DEPENDS ON HOW THOSE ACTIVITIES PUT YOU UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF THE EVIL SPIRIT. IT DEPENDS ON WHETHER YOU HAVE SECRET RESENTMENTS TOWARD GOD OR WHETHER OR NOT YOU HAVE PUT HIM SO FAR OUT OF YOUR MIND THAT YOU ARE USED TO LIVING WITH EMPTINESS, ALIENATION AND DARKNESS. YOU JUST DON'T EVEN WANT TO THINK THAT WAY. WHAT THAT PRESUMPTION MEANS IS THAT YOU THINK YOU CAN JUST GET OUT OF THE DIFFICULT WORK OF CONVERSION OF THE HEART. AND IT IS DIFFICULT. BOY, I TELL YOU WHAT, I'M STILL INVOLVED IN IT! UP TO MY NECK IN IT. IT'S BECAUSE IT'S TOUGH. IT'S TOUGH TO GET AROUND THE DEADLY SINS. AND LIKE I ALWAYS SAY, EVERY BIT OF WORK THAT YOU PUT INTO IT NOW, YOU WON'T HAVE TO PUT INTO IT AFTER THIS LIFE, IN PURGATORY. SO, YOU CAN'T LOSE BY TURNING TO GOD. YOU CAN'T LOSE BY NOT PRESUMING ON HIM BUT RATHER TRYING TO FOLLOW HIM AND THEN, TURNING TO HIM AND SAYING, LORD, I WANT TO FOLLOW YOU! JUST LIKE THAT PRODIGAL SON. I WANT TO COME HOME. I WANT TO BE AT HOME IN YOUR ETERNITY. THAT'S THE SAFEST COURSE OF ACTION TO TAKE. >> YOU MENTIONED RECONCILIATION, AND IMPORTANT ASPECT OF THAT IN UNDERSTANDING THAT OUR LORD'S FORGIVENESS AND UNCONDITIONAL LOVE. YOU ALSO SAY, THE ROAD TO MORAL CONVERSION IS NOT SMOOTH. EVEN ST. PAUL WAS TORMENTED BY HIS, 20 YEARS AFTER, AND HE CRIED OUT, THE EVIL I DO NOT WANT BUT THE EVIL IS WHAT I DO. SO, IT'S FRUSTRATING TO PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, I DO ALL THIS STUFF AND THEN I FALL AGAIN. I TRY ALL THIS TIME. SHOULDN'T IT GET EASIER, WHY DOES IT GET HARDER? >> Father: YEAH, RIGHT. IT ACTUALLY DOESN'T GET HARDER. YOU ARE TRYING AND SOMETIMES YOU CAN BE DEFINITELY TEMPTED ON THAT SORT OF SCALE WHERE IT SEEMS LIKE IMPERSUSCEPTIBLE PROGRESS. BECAUSE THE MORE THAT YOU ARE TURNING TOWARD GOD AND THE MORE YOU ARE BEGINNING TO RESIST THE TEMPTATION OF THE EVIL SPIRIT. THE EVIL SPIRIT AMPS IT UP! HE IS CONSTANTLY ADJUSTING TO SORT OF GET YOU TO FALL BACK INTO HIS REGIMENT. AND THE REASON HE DOES THAT, HE HAS A WHOLE BAG OF TRICKS, I CAN TELL YOU THIS RIGHT NOW! SOMETIMES HE AMPS UP THE TEMPTATIONS, IMAGES AND SOMETIMES HE TRIES TO SCARE YOU OFF FROM MORAL CONVERSION BY GIVING YOU NIGHTMARES AND HE DOES GIVE PEOPLE WHO ARE REALLY ON THE ROAD. THEY START TURNING AROUND AND ALL OF A SUDDEN, YOU GET A NIGHTMARE AND YOU SAY, OH, WAIT A MINUTE. HERE I AM. I'M TURNING TO GOD FULLY AND I'M GETTING NIGHTMARES. WHAT'S GOING ON HERE. SO, IF THE EVIL ONE CAN'T DISCOURAGE YOU WITH THAT, THEN HE COMES APPEARING AS AN ANGEL OF LIGHT AND TRIES TO TRICK YOU TO SAY, OKAY, SPITZER, IF DOING PENANCE IS GOOD FOR LENT AND YOU GAVE UP BEER AND DESSERTS, WOULDN'T IT BE BETTER IF YOU JUST LOADED YOUR SHOES WITH ROCKS AND WEAR A HAIR SHIRT AROUND AND REALLY SUFFER THROUGHOUT THE DAY. THAT WOULD REALLY HELP AND GOD WOULD LIKE THAT BETTER BECAUSE IT'S HARDER. SO IT'S BETTER. YOU CAN BE JUST LIKE ONE OF THE SAINTS. SO, BY THE TIME YOU ARE FINISHED STEPPING ON ROCKS ALL DAY AND ITCHING FROM THE HAIR SHIRT AND THEN YOU SEE THAT YOUR LEVEL OF LOVE, TRUST AND HOPE HAS COLLAPSED COMPLETELY! YOU DON'T TRUST IN GOD ANY MORE. YOU THINK HE'S AN OWE ARE, YOU DON'T -- OGRE AND YOU ARE SO IRRITATED FROM THE HAIR AND ROCKS, YOU CAN'T BE CHARITABLE TO ANYBODY, YOU JUST WANT TO SOCK EVERYBODY IN THE MOUTH. SO, WHAT'S HAPPENED TO ME? YOU JUST FELL PREY TO THE DEVIL WHEN HE APPEARED AS AN ANGEL OF LIGHT! HE COMES WITH SOME KIND OF PIOUS SUGGESTION, SOMETHING THAT LOOKS GOOD WHERE HE PUSHES YOU. REMEMBER CHESTERTON'S PHRASE, EVERY HERESY IS JUST AN EXAGGERATION OF THE TRUTH. HE PUSHES YOU A LITTLE TOO FAR UNTIL HE DISCOURAGES YOU. WHAT'S THE NEXT STEP? HE PUSHES YOU RIGHT INTO DESPAIR. GOD IS NEVER GOING TO LIKE ANYTHING THAT I DO, I'M NEVER MAKING ENOUGH PROGRESS ANY WAY. AND HE'S STOKING, GOING YOU, THAT'S YOU! THE ONLY BUDDY YOU HAVE IS ME. I'M YOUR BUDDY SAYS THE DEVIL. I'M THE ONLY GUY YOU GOT. SO YOU NEED TO BE CAREFUL OF ALL OF THESE TRICKS. IF YOU WANT A LIST OF THE TRICKS, GO TO CHAPTER 4 OF THAT BOOK, CHRIST VERSUS SATAN. GO TO CHAPTER 4 AND START READING AFTER SECTION 3. READ THAT VERY CAREFULLY. IT TALKS ABOUT DISCERNING SPIRITS. IT TALKS ABOUT THE DEVIL'S USE OF DECEIT AND ACCUSATION. IT TALKS ABOUT THE FIRST WEEK AND SECOND WEEK. THE FIRST WE CAN JUST SIMPLY MEANS YOU ARE UNCONVERTED. YOU HAVEN'T MADE A DECISION TO TURN TO CHRIST AND TRY TO FOLLOW HIM. WHEREAS, PEOPLE IN THE SECOND WEEK, RIGHT? THOSE ARE THE PEOPLE TRYING TO MOVE CLOSER TO CHRIST. BUT THEY ARE ON THE WAY, LIKE ME, TRYING TO DEEPEN OUR MORAL CONVERSION. BUT HE HAS A WHOLE SEPARATE SET OF TRICKS FOR THE SECOND WEEK. AND IGNATIUS HAS 14 RULES TO DESCRIBE IT. AND I PUT IT IN KIND OF DETAIL OUT THERE, FOR THAT BOOK. READ CHAPTER 4, SECTIONS 3 AND FOLLOW IT CAREFULLY. YOU CAN SEE THOSE THINGS. THAT WAY, YOU KIND OF AVOID THE TEMPTATION TOWARD DESPAIR OR DISCOURAGEMENT OF MAKING NOT ANY PROGRESS BUT IN FACT, YOU ARE MAKING PROGRESS! HE'S JUST BEATING YOU UP EVERY STEP OF THE WAY AS YOU TRY TO MOVE ALONG THIS PATH. BUT DON'T WORRY, THE HOLY SPIRIT IS GOING TO REINFORCE YOU TOO. THE HOLY SPIRIT IS GOING TO GIVE YOU LIGHT AND THE HOLY SPIRIT IS GOING TO. AND THE BLESSED VIRGIN MARY! THE BLESSED VIRGIN MARY IS GOING TO GIVE YOU HELP WITH HER GOOD MATERNAL CARE. SO, YOU ARE GOING TO SEE THAT PRAYER WILL GET A LITTLE BIT EASIER, THERE ARE THESE LITTLE FLICKERS OF CONSOLATION AND GOODNESS AND UNITY WITH OUR LORD AND WITH THE BLESSED VIRGIN MARY. SO, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU ARE IN THAT MODE OF DISCOURAGEMENT, IT SORT OF DARKENS THE WHOLE PAINTING. YOU KNOW WHAT I AM SAYING? YOU TAKE IT, IT'S DARK AND YOU CAN'T SEE ANY GOOD IN IT. SO, THE MAIN THING, YOU WANT TO BE OBJECTIVE AND SAY, OKAY, YEAH. I'M NOT MAKING AS MUCH PROGRESS AWOULD LIKE TO MAKE BUT IS EVERYTHING GOING OFF THE CLIFF? NO, NO IT'S NOT. THERE ARE ALL KINDS OF SIGNS AND MARKERS AND PROGRESS AND YOU NOTICE IT IN THE THINGS YOU DO, AND IN THE FREEDOMS YOU HAVE. SOMETIMES IT'S THE FREEDOM AND IT MAY NOT BE A FEELING AT ALL OF ANYTHING BUT YOU SEE YOU HAVE A FREEDOM TO BE MORE PATIENT WITH PEOPLE. I CERTAINLY DISCOVERED THAT IN MY OWN LIFE. I'VE NOT BEEN THE MOST PATIENT PERSON THROUGHOUT MY LIFE. I SAY THAT. AND I HAVE LEARNED -- NO. I'VE BEEN GIVEN FREEDOM THROUGH GRACE TO OPEN MYSELF TO BE MORE PATIENT, TO BE MORE KIND, ESPECIALLY IN TIMES WHEN PEOPLE ARE JUST DOING SOMETHING, CATEGORICALLY THINKING, WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS. SO FORTH. AND YOU JUST BECOME MORE AND MORE LIKE THE HEART OF OUR LORD TO DEAL WITH THEM IN THE GENTLE-HEARTED AND POOR WAY. SO, THE POINT IS, YOU WILL NOTICE THIS. >> WELL, I'M SORRY FOR MY IMPATIENCE BUT I HAVE TO WRAP UP THE SHOW. GIVE US YOUR BLESSING! >> BOW YOUR HEADS AND PRAY FOR GOD'S BLESSING. MAY THE LORD OF REAL CONSOLATION, OF REAL GENTLE-HEARTEDNESS AND HUMBLE-HEARTEDNESS, THE LORD WHO CONSTANTLY HELPS AND ASSISTS US, THE LORD WHO BRINGS THOSE CONSOLATION INTO OUR LIVES AS WE STRUGGLE TO MOVE BEYOND OURSELVES AND OUR WEAKNESSES COME INTO OUR LIVES DURING THIS LENTEN SEASON THAT YOU MAY HAVE A GREAT FORCE OF HEART AND A GREAT TRUST IN HIM TO PROCEED ON YOUR MORAL CONVERSION. IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, SON, AND OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. AMEN. >> Doug: AMEN. THANK YOU, FATHER, WE SEE YOU NEXT WEEK AND WE LOOK TO SEE ALL OF YOU NEXT WEEK. DON'T FORGET ALL OF FATHER SPITZER BOOKS AT ewtnRC.com. AND THEN ON BOOK MARK, THERE IS A SOLUTION - DON'T STAY STUCK! FR. CEDRIC PISEGNA EWTN NEWS IN DEPTH PREMIERS FRIDAY, MARCH 5 AT 8:00PM ET LOOK FOR THE POPE'S TRIP TO IRAQ. COMPLETE COVERAGE AT ewtn.com FOR ALL OF THE INFORMATION. THAT STARTS FRIDAY MARCH 5, 6:00 AM EASTERN TIME. IT'S YOUR PLACE FOR CATHOLIC TRUTH. STAY WITH US! WE'LL SEE YOU RIGHT HERE NEXT TIME IN "FR. SPITZER'S UNIVERSE." [MUSIC]
