♪ >> Doug: HELLO, I'M DOUG KECK AND WELCOME TO "FR. SPITZER'S UNIVERSE" WHERE FAITH AND REASON INTERSECT. EACH WEEK WE JOIN YOU WITH OUR STUDIO FROM EWTN RIGHT HERE IN ALABAMA WHERE MOTHER ANGELICA STARTED EVERYTHING WAY BACK WHEN, THE EARLY 1960'S, THAT'S WHEN SHE CAME HERE, FROM 1981 ON. AND WE'RE GOING TO TALK MORE ABOUT FATHER SPITZER'S NEW BOOK, THE LIGHT SHINES ON IN THE DARKNESS, TRANSFORMING SUFFERING FROM LIGHT INTO DARKNESS AND CHAPTER BY CHAPTER WE'LL GO THROUGH. AND WE'RE BEGINNING WITH IN THE TWINKLING OF AN EYE. AND WE HAVE HOPEFULLY GETTING TO ALL OF THE CHAPTERS. WE MIGHT NOT BUT STAY WITH US THROUGH JUNE AND THROUGHOUT THE SUMMER AND YOU CAN EMAIL US QUESTIONS THROUGH spitzersuniverse@ewtn.com. ALWAYS, POST YOUR QUESTIONS ON FACEBOOK WITH THE INFORMATION ON YOUR SCREEN. I THINK WE WERE BROADCAST LIVE ON BROADCAST. SEND US A TWEET AT THE INFORMATION ON YOUR SCREEN AS WELL. DON'T FORGET FATHER SPITZER'S WEB SITE, magiscenter.com. DON'T FORGET AS WELL, MOTHER ANGELICA'S QUICK GUIDE TO THE SACRAMENTS GUIDE IS JUST OUT. AND FOR ALL OF THE FANS OF MOTHER ANGELICA AND HER MINI-BOOKS. WITH THAT BEING SAID, LET'S QUICKLY JOIN FATHER SPITZER FROM OUR BEAUTIFUL WEST COAST STUDIOS IN ORANGE COUNTY, CALIFORNIA. WE'RE ON THE CAMPUS OF CHRIST CATHEDRAL AND WE SEE FATHER SPITZER COMING INTO FOCUS. THERE HE IS. TOOK US A LITTLE LONGER TO FOCUS YOU, LONGER THAN NORMAL. I HAVE TO SAY YOU LOOK BETTER THAN EVER. AND YOU LOOK LIKE AN EXCITED AUTHOR HAPPY THAT ONE OF HIS BABIES IS NOW OUT AND ABOUT AND CAN BE READ BY THOSE OF US, TALKING ABOUT IT ON THIS PARTICULAR PROGRAM. AND OF COURSE, YOUR NEW BOOK HAS TO DO WITH SUFFERING. SEEMS LIKE WE TALK A LOT AS CATHOLICS ABOUT SUFFERING. WHY IS THAT? WHY IS IT IMPORTANT FOR US TO TALK ABOUT IT. >> I THINK FOR A VARIETY OF REASONS, I MEAN, NUMBER ONE, SUFFERING IS HARD TO DEAL, JUST ON ITS FACE. HOWEVER, THROUGH GOOD CATHOLIC THEOLOGY, THE SPIRITUALITY DEVELOPED OVER THE YEARS, WE CAN TAKE FULL ADVANTAGE OF THAT SUFFERING. AND TURN IT INTO A REAL POSITIVE FAITH. A REAL POSITIVE FOR LOVE. A REAL POSITIVE FOR ALL OF OUR SALVATION, A REAL POSITIVE TO HELP US HELP OTHERS TOWARD THEIR SALVATION. IT CAN BECOME ONE OF MOST POSITIVE EXPERIENCE INS OUR LIVES INSTEAD OF ONE OF THE MOST NEGATIVE EMBITTERING TURN MYSELF IN ON MY EXPERIENCES OF MY LIFE. SO, I MEAN, ONE OF THE KEY THINGS IS, WE REALLY NEED TO KNOW HOW TO USE OUR FAITH IN ORDER TO SUFFER WELL. AND THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, AS I SAID LAST WEEK, THE CATHOLIC CHURCH KNOWS BETTER THAN ANYONE HOW TO DO THAT. AND SO, I WANTED TO CAPTURE JUST THAT WHOLE IDEA OF HOW DO WE USE OUR FAITH TO SUFFER WELL. TO TURN IT FROM A NEGATIVE INTO AN EXTREME POSITIVE. BUT I THINK THERE'S OTHER THINGS WE WANT TO STUDY AS WELL. AND WE WERE DISCUSSING LAST WEEK, WHY DOES AN ALL LOVING GOD ALLOW SUFFERING, ANOTHER HUGE PROBLEM ESPECIALLY FOR YOUNG PEOPLE WHO, AS WE WERE SAYING, THEY HAVE THE INBUILT TENSION BETWEEN SUFFERING AND LOVE TO LEARN THE BENEFITS OF SUFFERING AND HOW IT CAN BE A SUFFERING FOR NOT ONLY US INDIVIDUALLY BUT FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF CULTURE, HUMAN SOCIETY, THE DEVELOPMENT OF TECHNOLOGIES, SCIENCE, AND NECESSITY IS TRULY THE MOTHER OF INVENTION. AND SUFFERING STANDS AT THE BASIS OF NECESSITY. SO, THIS IS A REAL CLEAR AREA THAT NEEDS TO BE TALKED ABOUT, DISCUSSED SO THAT WE CAN GO INTO INTO THE QUESTION WITH A GREAT DEAL OF DEPTH AND PROFUNDITY. AND SECONDLY, THERE'S A NEED FOR THEOLOGICAL PREPARATION. YOU KNOW, I SPENT THE FIRST THREE CHAPTERS JUST TALKING ABOUT THE PREPARATION. IN A WAY YOU CAN BELIEVE THAT, AND EVEN BELIEVE IT IMPLICITLY THAT IN THE WORLD THIS IS ALL THERE IS, AND YOU HAVE THIS THOUGHT IN YOUR MIND. THIS IS DIFFICULT TO INTERPRET SUFFERING. AGAIN, IF YOU HAVE THE WRONG NOTION OF GOD, IT'S GOING TO BE DIFFICULT TO SUFFER WELL. AND FINALLY, IF YOU JUST MAKE SOME MISTAKES, WE KIND OF START TAKING LITTLE CHUNKS OF THE OLD TESTAMENT AND TRY TO APPLY THEM AS IF THEY ARE COMPLETELY VALID IN CHRISTIANITY TODAY, YOU KNOW, ISOLATED FROM THE HISTORICAL PERIOD CULTURE AND CONTEXT IN WHICH THEY WERE WRITTEN. WE'RE GOING TO GET A VERY WEIRD DOCTRINE OF SUFFERING THAT JESUS NEVER HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH. BUT WE CAN GET THROWN COMPLETELY OFF BASE AND AS SUCH, YOU KNOW, WE CAN SUFFER VERY POORLY. SO, I WANTED TO, YOU KNOW, MEET ALL OF THOSE OBJECTIVES REALLY. JUST LIKE I SAID, THE CATHOLIC CHURCH HAS SO MUCH TO SAY ON ALL OF THESE AREAS. I JUST DECIDED TO WRITE ONE COMPREHENSIVE VOLUME, TAKE THIS WISDOM OF THE AGES THAT STARTS WITH, WELL, EVEN BEFORE JESUS FIND THE APEX IN JESUS AND THEN IS DEVELOPED THROUGHOUT THE AGES, YOU KNOW, THROUGH SUCH GREAT SAINTS. AND THE SAINTS ARE REALLY THE ONES WHO TEACH US MORE THAN ANYONE HOW TO TO SUFFER WELL, THEY ARE THE ONES THAT TEACH US, LOVE, FAITH, SALVATION MORE THAN ANYBODY ELSE. >> AT THE BEGINNING OF THE BOOK, THE LIGHT SHINES ON IN THE DARKNESS, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I WAS LISTENING TO WHAT YOU JUST SAID, RELATING TO SOMETHING WHERE YOU SAID IN THE BEGINNING, THE MEANING AND LOVE OF THE WORLD, NO MATTER HOW POWERFUL AND FULL CANNOT SATISFY OUR YEARNING FOR AND CALLING TRANSCENDENT AT HOME. AND NON RELIGIOUS AFFILIATED INDIVIDUALS HAVE SIGNIFICANTLY GREATER ANXIETY, MEANINGLESSNESS, FAMILIAL TENSIONS, PAST SUBSTANCE ABUSE AND SUICIDE ATTEMPTS THAN THE RELIGIOUS AFFILIATE HAD. AND WE'RE GOING ON TO SAY HOW THIS CAN BE ALLEVIATED. SOMETIMES I THINK PEOPLE IF THY GET AWAY FROM GOD, THEY ARE GETTING AWAY FROM SUFFERING. AND YOU ARE SETTING YOURSELF UP FOR A CULTURE OF DESPAIR WHICH IT SEEMS WE HAVE MORE AND MORE, AT LEAST, IN THE WEST. >> THERE'S NO DOUBT ABOUT IT. AS YOU POINTED OUT, THIS IS AN AMERICAN PSYCHIATRIC ASSOCIATION STUDY, DONE BY 10 OTHER PSYCHIATRISTS IN 2004 PUBLISHED IN THE AMERICAN JOURNAL OF PSYCHIATRY. AND YOU KNOW, AS YOU SAID, IF YOU DON'T HAVE A THEOLOGICAL PERSPECTIVE AND YOU DON'T HAVE THIS RESURRECTION PERSPECTIVE AND YOU DON'T HAVE SOME KIND OF A RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD INTERNALLY, THE ODDS ARE VERY, VERY GOOD THAT YOU WILL EXPERIENCE A GREAT DEAL OF MEANINGLESSNESS, ANXIETY, IMPULSIVITY, AGGRESSIVITY, SUBSTANCE ABUSE, FAMILIAL TENSIONS AND SUICIDE. THIS IS GOING TO BE THE NORMAL. THIS IS NOT A HAPPY PERSON. THIS IS A PERSON WHO IS SUFFERING AT THE DEEPEST LEVELS AND THE APA, AMERICAN PSYCHIATRIC ASSOCIATION SAYS, YEAH, FOR THOU HAS MADE US FOR THY GOOD AND OUR HEARTS ARE RESTLESS UNTIL THEY REST IN YOU. HE WAS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. OUR HEARTS ARE NOT ONLY RESTLESS, TENDING TOWARD ANXIETY, MALAISE, AND EVERYTHING ELSE IF WE'RE NOT IN A RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD. AND THAT'S COMPOUNDED BY THE ALIENATION, LONELINESS BY JUST NOT BEING PRESENT TO GOD OR HAVING GOD PRESENT IN OUR LIVES IN OUR CONSCIOUSNESS FOR WHICH HE HAS CREATED US. SO, THERE WE ARE. AND THERE'S ANOTHER TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE KIND OF SUFFERING. WITHOUT COMMUNION WITH GOD IN RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD IN OUR LIVES. SO, VERY, VERY GOOD POINT. >> Doug: HERE'S A QUESTION COMING OUT OF THE SHOW LAST WEEK. YEARS AFTER LOSING MY YOUNGEST CHILD, I HAVE A BIG HOLE IN MY HEART. I LONG TO SEE MY SON. I STILL CRY WHEN I MISS HIM. I KNOW HE IS ALSO IN HEAVEN WITH GOD, BUT AT THE SAME TIME I WANT GOD TO SHOW ME A SIGN THAT MY SON REALLY IS IN HEAVEN. DOES THAT MEAN I'M NOT SUFFERING WELL? MARI >> Father: WELL, I WOULD JUST SAY TWO THINGS. GRIEF DIFFICULT. AND THE MORE WE LOVE AND EVEN THE MORE WE DARE TO LOVE, THE MORE GRIEF CAN AFFLICT US. AND THAT IS NOT A BAD THING. IT'S A PAINFUL THING. BUT IT DOES MANIFEST THE LOVE THAT WE HAVE AND THE YEARNING THAT WE HAVE TO BE REUNITED WITH THAT BELOVED IN THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. FIRST OF ALL, LET'S JUST, GRIEF IS PAINFUL AND IT'S GOING TO TAKE SOME TIME FOR SOME OF IT TO BE ALLEVIATED. BUT YOUR LOVE WAS GREAT. AND THAT'S GOOD. AND THAT JUST SHOWS YOU, IN A SENSE AND THE GOODNESS OF THE BELOVED THAT YOU LOVED. SO, DON'T EVER, IN INNOCENCE REGRET THAT PAIN BECAUSE IN A WAY, THAT PAIN IS POINTING TO THE GOODNESS OF THAT LOVE WHICH IS WHO YOU ARE, AT YOUR DIGNIFIED BEST. AND THAT'S THE FIRST POINT. BUT THE SECOND THING, YOU ARE RIGHT, HE IS WITH THE LORD. BUT PART OF OUR FAITH JOURNEY, WE DO HAVE TO TRUST THE LORD, WE CAN'T SAY TO THE LORD ALL THE TYPE, I REALLY DO TRUST YOU. HOWEVER. HOWEVER I WOULD LIKE A COUPLE OF SIGNS HERE SO I COULD JUST KNOW HOW TRUSTWORTHY YOU ARE. NOW, I KNOW YOU ARE NOT DOING THAT. YOU YES OR NO TO SEE HIM AND BECAUSE YOU ARE SO CONCERNED WITH HIM. BUT CONSIDER THIS. IF YOU LOVE HIM IN THIS WAY, YOU CANNOT IMAGINE, AND THIS DEALS MORE WITH CHAPTER 2 WHICH WE'RE GOING TO BE DOING NEXT WEEK. RIGHT NOW, JUST HAVE TO DEFER THAT. BUT THE MAIN THING, YOU CAN'T BELIEVE FOR A SECOND THAT GOD DOESN'T LOVE YOUR SON A BILLION TIMES TOLD LOVELIER. YOUR LOVE IS SO GREAT, YOU CAN'T IMAGINE THAT THERE WOULD BE A GREATER LOVE. BUT THERE IS. YOUR HEAVENLY FATHER LOVES YOU AND LOVES HIM WITH THAT DEGREE OF LOVE. AND YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO LET GO IN TO HIS HANDS. TRUST HIM. THAT'S PART OF YOUR FAITH JOURNEY. BUT YOU ARE GOING TO SEE, IF YOU TRUST HIM, YOU ARE GOING TO SEE YOUR SON. AND I WOULD SAY, SOMETIMES IT IS TRUE IT IS TRUE THAT WHEN YOUR LOVED ONES PASS, THEY GIVE A SIGN OR DO APPEAR. BUT BY NO MEANS ALWAYS DO THEY APPEAR. AND YOU CAN'T DRAW ANY CONCLUSION FROM THAT, OTHER THAN GOD IS, FAITH IN GOD IS WHAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO RELY UPON AT THE END OF THE DAY. WE CAN'T ALWAYS RELY ON EXTRAORDINARY THINGS HAPPENING, SUPERNATURAL THINGS HAPPENING TO US WHICH ARE GOING TO GIVE US THAT BOOST. HANG IN THERE. YOUR FAITH IS TERRIFIC. AND I WOULD JUST SAY, JUST LET GO INTO GOD'S HANDS. REMEMBER WHAT JESUS SAYS TO THE SYNAGOGUE LEADER WHO IS ALMOST IN REAL FEAR. HE SAYS, FEAR IS USELESS. WHAT IS NEEDED IS TRUST. SO, TRUST IN HIM AS BEST YOU CAN. KNOW THAT THE LOVE YOU FEEL THROUGH THE GRIEF THAT IS STILL PART OF YOUR LIFE IS JUST AS GOOD AS GOLD. IT'S JUST SAYING WHO YOU ARE AND ALMOST LIKE A RADIANCE SHINING OUT OF YOUR BEING BECAUSE OF WHAT YOU WISH FOR YOUR SON AND WHAT YOU WISH THAT YOU COULD HAVE WITH HIM AT THIS TIME. AND I JUST THINK THAT, YOUR WHOLE BEING IS RADIATING WITH THE GOODNESS OF THAT LOVE. AND EVEN THOUGH WHAT YOU FEEL IS GRIEF. IT'S A GOODNESS. AND YOUR FAITH IS STRONG AND KEEP IT STRONG IN TRUST. >> Doug: HANG IN THERE. SPEAKING OF LIGHT, YOU SAID IN THE BOOK, FOLLOWING THE LIGHT IS NOT AS EASY AS IT MIGHT SEEM AND THEN YOU GO ON TO SAY, SOMETIMES I TALK MYSELF OUT OF ASKING THE LORD FOR HELP BY THINKING TO MYSELF, I MUST BE MAKING ALL OF THIS UP. PEACE AND LIGHT IS NOT GOD'S LIGHT BUT ONLY THE LIGHT OF SPITZERIAN LIGHT OF RATIONALIZATION. >> Father: WELL, SAY YOU ARE SUFFERING AND ALL OF A SUDDEN, YOU GET A REAL CONSOLATION IN YOUR SUFFERING. AND THEN YOU TURN INTO THE RATIONALIST, RIGHT? YOU START THINKING. WAIT A MINUTE. WAIT A MINUTE. I SHOULDN'T BE FEELING THIS PEACE. THIS IS A REALLY TRAGIC EVENT, SOMETHING TERRIBLE THAT'S HAPPENED IN MY LIFE. WAIT A MINUTE. WAIT A MINUTE. WHY DO I FEEL THIS? IT'S BECAUSE I'M TALKING MYSELF INTO BELIEVING THAT GOD IS PRESENT AND GOD IS TAKING CARE OF THIS. GOD IS WELCOMING THIS PERSON INTO THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN, WHATEVER IT MAY BE. AND I LITERALLY TALKED MYSELF OUT OF PEACE, YOU KNOW. AND OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, WHY DO WE DO IT? BECAUSE OF COURSE WE ARE SO SCARED OF BEING NAIVE. WE'RE SO SCARED OF JUST PUTTING OURSELVES IN THE HAND OF GOD AND LETTING GO. WE'VE GOT THIS MURPHY'S LAW SO EMBEDDED IN OUR SUBCONSCIOUS MIND THAT WE JUST WANT TO KEEP MAINTAINING CONTROL UNTIL THE LAST POSSIBLE MINUTE. AND I ACTUALLY TALK MYSELF OUT OF PEACE AND I JUST KEEP HAVING TO REMIND MYSELF, TAKE THE PEACE. WHERE DO YOU THINK YOU ARE GETTING THE PEACE FROM, YOU IDIOT. IT'S NOT YOU TALKING YOURSELF INTO IT. IT'S NOT YOUR SUBCONSCIOUS MIND THAT'S SO INTELLIGENT AND SO BRILLIANT AT BRINGING THESE CAUSES TO BEAR THAT YOU ARE NOW FEELING PEACE AMIDST THE MISERY. GOD IS GIVING IT TO YOU. JUST TAKE THE PEACE AND RUN WITH IT. AND QUIT TALKING YOURSELF OUT OF IT. AND SO, BASICALLY, I CAN SEE HOW WE DO IT IN THIS CULTURE. BECAUSE WE DO HAVE THIS INCREDIBLE FEAR OF BEING VIEWED AS NAIVE OR LOOKING AT OURSELVES AS NAIVE UNABLE TO LOOK AT THE WORLD AS IT REALLY IS. AND THE WORLD AS IT REALLY IS, FILLED WITH GOD, FILLED WITH GOD'S LOVE, FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT BRINGING US THROUGH THESE SUFFERINGS AND BRINGING GOOD OUT OF OUR SUFFERING. JUST TAKE IT. IT'S A PURE GIFT. A GIFT THAT YOU CANNOT GIVE TO YOURSELF. AND EVERY GOOD GIFT DOESN'T HAVE TO COME FROM YOURSELF. OR SOMEBODY WHO OWES SOMETHING TO YOU. I'M TALKING TO MYSELF HERE. I'M NOT TALKING TO YOU. BUT THE POINT IS, YOU KNOW, YEAH, WE JUST HAVE TO TAKE IT AND RUN WITH IT. HALF OF ME IS SAYING, YOU KNOW, I DON'T WANT A GRATUITOUS GIFT THAT I DON'T GIVE MYSELF. AND THE OTHER HALF IS SAYING, I'LL TAKE IT, I'LL TAKE IT. AND THE SECOND IS THE MUCH BETTER ATTITUDE. >> AND NOT THE SLUR THEORY, THE SPITZERIAN WAY. WE'LL TALK MORE ABOUT THIS BOOK AS WE RETURN RIGHT HERE IN "FR. SPITZER'S UNIVERSE". MUCH MORE AHEAD. STAY WITH US. ♪ ♪ >> Doug: THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR STAYING WITH US, RIGHT HERE ON "FR. SPITZER'S UNIVERSE". TALKING ABOUT TWINKLING OF AN EYE IN THE FIRST CHAPTER OF THE NEW BOOK, LIGHT SHINES ON IN THE DARKNESS GOING THROUGH OVER THE NEXT FEW WEEKS AS WE KICK INTO THE SUMMERTIME, JUNE INTO JULY. MUCH MORE AHEAD. WE'LL JOIN FATHER SPITZER AND PASS ALONG SOME OF THE QUESTIONS IN BETWEEN GOING THROUGH THE BOOK. AND ONE OF THE QUESTIONS THAT CAME UP FROM LAST WEEK AND COMING OUT OF THE MONTH OF MAY, WE GOT THE CENTENARY OF FATIMA GOING ON. AND EWTN IS GOING ON MONTH BY MONTH, MESSAGE BY MESSAGE, MARCH TO THE MIRACLE OF THE SUN. ANNIVERSARY IN OCTOBER AND OF COURSE, IN MANY WAYS, OUR LIVES ALL A MIRACLE OF THE SON, S-O-N. AND OUR NEXT QUESTION. COULD THIS HAPPEN TO ME, YOU KNOW, THIS GIRL WAS ONLY ABOUT 7-YEARS-OLD. AND I KNOW THAT FATHER ASPOSTOLI SAID, THERE WAS DISCUSSION WHETHER OR NOT SHE WAS HAVING AN AFFAIR WITH THE MARRIED MAN AT THE TIME OR SOMETHING, SHE MAY HAVE BEEN DOING SOME THINGS THAT WERE QUITE MORALLY REPROACHABLE. SO, YOU KNOW, MAYBE IN FACT THAT HELPS US UNDERSTAND A LITTLE BETTER. AND SOMETIMES WE THINK OF 17-YEARS-OLD IN THE CONTEXT OF TODAY AS IF THEY ARE KIDS. WHEN YOU GO BACK A HUNDRED YEARS, MOST CULTURES THEY WERE PRETTY MUCH ADULTS. >> Father: WELL, I SAY TWO THINGS. FIRST OF ALL, EVEN THOUGH LUCY CERTAINLY HEARD THESE WORDS, PRIVATE REVELATION AS SHE THINKS SHE DID, REMEMBER, SHE WAS A VERY SMALL CHILD. AGAIN, YOU ARE INTERPRETING THE WAY SHE HEARD IT. CERTAINLY AS AN ADULT, SHE THOUGHT SHE HEARD IT IN THAT WAY. BUT I REALLY HESITATE TO TAKE THESE STATEMENTS AS GOSPEL TRUTH. I MEAN, LIKE I SAY, IT COULD BE SUBJECT TO AN AWFUL LOT OF INTERPRETATION. AND YOU JUST READ SOME STUDIES OF CHILDREN, WHAT THEY SAY AND WHAT MIGHT HAVE HAPPENED OR DIDN'T HAPPEN OR WHAT GOT SAID, DIDN'T GET SAID, I MEAN, I'LL TELL YOU, I THINK OUT OF THE MOUTHS OF BABES, YES. BUT WHEN YOU ARE DEALING WITH 6 OR 7-YEARS-OLD CHILDREN WHO ARE STILL UNINFORMED, UNEDUCATED. I MEAN, IT'S LIKE, YOU SAY ONE THING AND THE OTHER WAY IS WHICH IT'S INTERPRETED. I'M NOT SAYING SHE DIDN'T HEAR THAT OR WHATEVER, I'M JUST BE CAREFUL. WHAT KIND OF CREDENCE YOU GIVE OR LEVEL OF CERTITUDE THAT YOU ARE GOING TO GIVE TO THE INTERPRETATION. REMEMBER, WHAT WE HEAR IS ALWAYS INTERPRETED. ALWAYS. AND WHAT A CHILD HEARS IS HEAVILY INTERPRETED THROUGH THE LENSE THAT THEY HAVE. LIKE I SAID, THEY CAN COME UP WITH THE DARNEDEST THINGS. AND ANYBODY WHO EVER WATCHED THIS ART LINK LETTER SHOW. WHERE HE BRINGS IN THESE CHILDREN. >> Doug: HOUSE PARTY. >> Father: YEAH, HOUSE PARTY. AND HE BRINGS IN THESE CHILDREN AND TALKS TO THEM. AND HE SAYS CERTAIN THINGS AND THEY REPEAT BACK WHAT THEY THOUGHT THEY HEARD OR THEY THINK WHAT THEIR PARENTS SAID. AND OF COURSE, WE'RE ALL ROLLING ON THE FLOOR LAUGHING BECAUSE YOU KNOW THAT'S WHAT THEY THINK THEY HEARD. AND YOU KNOW, REALLY IT WAS NOT PROPERLY INTERPRETED. AND THEY THOUGHT THEY GAVE THE TRUTH. BUT OF COURSE, AGAIN, THIS IS THE DIFFICULTY WITH INTERPRETING KIDS, STRAIGHT ON LITERAL VALUE AND ACCORDING IT POSITIVE TRUTH. SO, I DON'T WANT TO TAKE AWAY FROM IT. IT MIGHT BE VERY TRUE. ALTERNATIVELY, THERE MAY BE A LOT OF INTERPRETATION. >> AND KIDS USED TO SAY THE DARNEDEST THINGS USED TO BE THE SEGMENT WITH ART LINKLETTER, KIDS SAY THE DARNEDEST THINGS. AND STEP BACK, YOU KNOW, SINCE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THAT. HOW DOES OUR LADY CONVEY INFORMATION TO CHILDREN LIVING IN THIS WORLD AND THEIR UNDERSTANDING OF THINGS LIKE TIME, AND OBVIOUSLY, WOULD BE PORTRAYED IN SUCH A WAY OR UNDERSTOOD IN SUCH A WAY THAT THEY COULD ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND, RIGHT? >> THAT'S RIGHT. MUCH WHATEVER IS RECEIVED, IS RECEIVED IN THE MANNER OF THE RECEIVER. AS THOMAS AQUINAS SAID. GOD ALWAYS HAS TO TAILOR THE MESSAGE OR IN THIS CASE, BLESSED VIRGIN MARY ALWAYS TAILORS THE MESSAGE TO WHAT COULD BE ADEQUATELY COMPREHENDED BY A CHILD. SO AGAIN THAT MIGHT BE PART OF THE THING WHICH IS WHY THE CHURCH URGES CAUTION, CAUTION, CAUTION IN INTERPRETING A PRIVATE REVELATION. BUT ALSO, YOU GOT TO HAVE TRIPLE CAUTION, CAUTION, CAUTION WHEN INTERPRETING A CHILD WHO IS RECEIVING A PRIVATE REVELATION. SO, THERE'S JUST A LOT OF MITIGATING SCREENS AND FROM THE VANTAGE POINT OF BLESSED VIRGIN MARY AND THE CHILD'S ABILITY TO UNDERSTAND AND FROM THE CHILD'S ABILITY TO INTERPRET. YOU LET FIVE MINUTES ELAPSE AND A CHILD COMES UP WITH SOMETHING VERY, VERY DIFFERENT. AND AS I SAID, IF YOU HAVE ANY DOUBTS, WATCH THAT ART LINKLETTER SHOW. IT'S HILARIOUS. >> Doug: EXACTLY AND I THINK AS WELL WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT THE MAJOR CONCEPTS ARE THERE. OBVIOUSLY, OUR LADY IS THERE AND THEY SEE HELL AND THE IDEA THAT PURGATORY IS BEING REINFORCED THAT IT DOES EXIST. AND SINS, MORTAL SINS DO HAVE AN IMPACT ON THE FACT OF ONES NEXT LIFE. BUT THE SERIOUSNESS OF IT IS SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT IT AND YOU KNOW, TODAY, LIVING IN THIS WORLD, MOST SINS ARE POO POOED AS BEING NOT THAT IMPORTANT. >> Father: OH, I TOTALLY AGREE WITH THAT. I AGREE THAT SHE WAS EMPHASIZING THE SERIOUSNESS OF THE SINS OF THE FLESH. AND FOR THAT REASON, I THINK THAT IT'S A VERY, VERY VALID REVELATION. I'M NOT UNDERMINING THAT IN THE LEAST. I'M JUST SAYING BE CAREFUL HOW LITERAL YOU INTERPRET THINGS. >> AND TEST EVERYTHING BY THE TEACHINGS OF THE CHURCH AND BY SCRIPTURE OF COURSE BECAUSE THAT'S OUR BELLWETHER. NOW, HERE'S ANOTHER QUESTION. I UNDERSTAND THAT WE HAVE HOPE IN CHRIST'S RESURRECTION, BUT WHY DID OUR LORD HAVE TO SUFFER SO SEVERELY TO ACCOMPLISH THE FATHER'S WILL? WHY DID THE FATHER REQUIRE SUCH EXTREME SUFFERING TO ACCOMPLISH OUR SALVATION? MAY GOD BLESS YOU! OF COURSE, PEOPLE I THINK IRENE FORCED WATCHING THE MOVIE THE PASSION OF CHRIST, TO SEE THE LEVEL OF SEVERITY OF THE SUFFERING THAT OUR LORD WENT THROUGH. >> THE WHOLE OBJECTIVE, NOT JUST FOR FATHER OR JESUS HIMSELF IS COMPLETE AND TOTAL SELF SACRIFICE. AND THE REASON FOR THAT, REMEMBER, SELF SACRIFICE EQUALS LOVE. AND TOTAL OR COMPLETE SELF SACRIFICE EQUALS TOTAL AND COMPLETE LOVE. UNCONDITIONAL AND UNRESTRICTED LOVE. SO, THE OBJECTIVE AND AGAIN, HERE, JESUS AND THE FATHER ARE OF THE SAME MIND WHAT THEY WANT TO DO IS CONCRETELY MANIFEST, UNCONDITIONAL LOVE IN THE WORLD. SO, THEY WANT TO, NOT JUST ABOUT SAYING, I LOVE YOU UNCONDITIONALLY OR MY FATHER IS LIKE THE FATHER OF THE PRODIGAL SON WHO UNCONDITIONALLY LOVES HIS SON. NO, I'M GOING TO DO IT. I'M GOING TO BRING AN ACT OF COMPLETE UNCONDITIONAL LOVE INTO THE WORLD THROUGH AN ACT OF TOTAL SELF SACRIFICE WHERE NOTHING IS HELD BACK. NOTHING AT ALL IS HELD BACK IN THE SUFFERING UNTO THE OPPONENT OF DEATH. ALL THE JEERING AGAINST HIM, THE PSYCHOLOGICAL SUFFERING, PHYSICAL SUFFERING, TORMENTS OF EVERY KIND, NOTHING IS HELD BACK SO YOU WILL KNOW HOW MUCH I LOVE YOU. SO YOU WILL KNOW HOW MUCH THE UNCONDITIONAL LOVE IS GOING TO OUTSHINE THE FINETUDE OF YOUR SINFULNESS. AND THE LIGHT IS GOING TO CONQUEROR THE DARKNESS BECAUSE THE LIGHT IS INFINITE. THE LOVE IS INFINITE AND THE DARKNESS CAN ONLY BE FINITE AND THE DARKNESS OF YOUR SIN CAN ONLY BE FINITE AND I WILL LOVE YOU OUT OF IT UNTO YOUR REDEMPTION IF YOU SINCERELY REPENT FOR YOUR SINS. SO, THERE'S NOTHING HELD BACK. AND OF COURSE, WE LOOK AT IT AND WE SAY, WELL, JESUS DOES PRAY, YOU KNOW, YES, HE DOES. HE SINCERELY PRAISE THAT IF THIS CUP CAN PASS, THE CUP OF SUFFERING CAN PASS, BUT IF IT'S THE FATHER'S WILL, HE WANTS IT TO GO ALL THE WAY. AND HE AND THE FATHER ARE OF THE SAME MIND FOR COMPLETE SELF SACRIFICE, COMPLETE LOVE WHICH IS AN UNRESTRICTED INFINITE UNCONDITIONAL ACT OF LOVE THAT IS BORN INTO THE WORLD. AND OF COURSE, IT'S NOT JUST WORDS, IT'S DEEDS, REALITY, THE REDEMPTION OF HUMANKIND. IN THE BEGINNING BOOK, YOU SAY, IRON KEY, THE -- >> Doug: IRONICALLY, JOY AND PEACE ALMOST INEVITABLY GOES THROUGH THE DARKNESS. BUT IF WE HAVE FAITH IN THE PROMISES OF JESUS, THE LIGHT WILL INTENSIFY THROUGH THE DARKNESS. AND THAT'S KIND OF WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT EVEN IN THIS SITUATION, THE RESURRECTION OF OUR LORD? >> Father: THAT'S RIGHT. THE IRONY IS THAT THE DARKNESS ACTUALLY BRINGS OUT MORE LIGHT. IT'S THE ONLY TIME THAT YOU CAN REALLY SEE THE STARS IS AT NIGHT, RIGHT? SO, IT IS IN FACT, THE SON'S LIGHT IS SO BRIGHT THAT IT KIND OF WIPES OUT THE STAR'S LIGHT. SO, THE NIGHT DOES BRING OUT A WHOLE OTHER KIND OF LIGHT, WHOLE OTHER KIND OF BEAUTY AND IF I MAY USE THE METAPHOR OR OVERUSE IT AS THE CASE MAY BE. I HAVE TO SAY DARKNESS DOES BRING TUESDAY GREATER AND GREATER LIGHT, DEEPER AND DEEPER HUMILITY. DEEPER AND DEEPER EMPATHY AND DEEPER AND DEEPER FAITH. DEEPER AND DEEPER DESIRE TO SERVE THE NEEDS OF OTHERS IN COMPASSION. DEEPER AND DEEPER RELIANCE UPON THE LORD. DEEPER AND DEEPER THEREFORE, CONVERSION OF OUR HEARTS AND THEREFORE DEEPER AND DEEPER CAPACITY TOWARD SALVATION. AND DEEPER AND DEEPER ABILITY TO HELP OTHERS TOWARD THEIR SALVATION. AND DEEPER AND DEEPER RESILIENCE OF SOUL. AND DEEPER AND DEEPER RISING TO THE OCCASION. DEEPER AND DEEPER TO SACRIFICE OURSELVES TO A NOBLE GOOD OR NOBLE END. THIS IS WHAT THE DARKNESS BRINGS US INTO. AND OF COURSE, THE DARKNESS BRINGS US INTO THE LIGHT. AND THE EVIL ONE SAYS, OH, NO. I'M GOING TO JUST PITCH THIS DARKNESS. I'M GOING TO PUT YOU THROUGH THE DOOM, GLOOM, AND IF YOU HAVE FAITH IN THE RESURRECTION OF JESUS AND YOU HAVE FAITH THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT IS LEADING YOU AND YOU HAVE FAITH THAT ALL OF THIS IS LEADING TOWARD LOVE AND SALVATION, I'M GOING TO TELL YOU SOMETHING. YOU ARE NOT GOING TO ONLY MOVE TOWARD THE DARKNESS, YOU ARE GOING TO MOVE THROUGH THE DARKNESS SO SOLIDLY, WHEN YOU COME OUT, ROAR LIGHT WILL BE SO MUCH MORE SIGNIFICANT, SO MUCH MORE RADIANT, RESILIENT THAN ANYTHING THAT YOU COULD HAVE EVER IMAGINED. YES, YES, YOU HAVE HAD THE STARS COME OUT AT NIGHT, THE QUALITY OF YOUR LIGHT WILL COME OUT THROUGH THE DARKNESS. >> Doug: OKAY. MOVING FURTHER IN THE BOOK. YOU SAY, IT IS ONE THING TO TRUST IN GOD WHEN LIFE IS GOING WELL. AND QUITE ANOTHER TO DO SO WHEN WE ARE SUFFERING. THE PROBLEM IS, AT THE VERY MOMENT WHEN WE NEED FAITH THE MOST, IT CAN SEEM THE MOST ELUSIVE. IS THAT JUST A NORMAL HUMAN CONDITION THAT THAT HAPPENS? >> Father: YES, NORMAL HUMAN REACTION. ABSOLUTELY TRUE. WE HAVE THAT CHILDLIKE REACTION, SUFFERING HITS AND WE THINK THE FIRST THING THAT FLASHES THROUGH THE MIND, OH, GOD DOESN'T CARE, I'M SUFFERING! HE'S NOT HERE. IF MOM WERE HERE, SHE COULD STOP THE SUFFERING. OR IF DAD WERE HERE, HE COULD DO SOMETHING THIS. SO, MAYBE GOD IS NOT HERE. SO, THE MINUTE, I MEAN, ALMOST LIKE AN INSTINCTIVE CHILDLIKE REACTION WHICH IS, THE IDEA WHICH IS OF COURSE NOT A TRUE IDEA. WE'RE SUFFERING AND GOD IS NOT HERE. GOD IS MOST INTENSELY PRESENT WHEN WE'RE SUFFERING. IT'S JUST THAT WE CANNOT FEEL HIM. HE'S JUST NOT AS NOTICEABLE BECAUSE WE HAVE TO LOOK THROUGH IT THROUGH THE OBFUSCATION OF THE PAIN, GRIEF THAT WE'RE FEELING. SO, YOU KNOW IT IS AN IRONY AND SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE TO LEARN TO DEAL WITH. PAIN IS GOING TO BRING ON OBFUSCATION. AND GRIEF IS GOING TO BRING ON OBFUSICATION AND IF GOD SNAPS HIS FINGER AND MAKES IT GO AWAY WE NEVER GET TO ANY OPPORTUNITY BEYOND OURSELVES. GOD IS NOT GOING TO LEAVE US IN A PLEASURE BUBBLE. GOD IS NOT GOING TO PROTECT US FROM THE DARKNESS. WHAT HE'S GOING TO DO IS LEAD US THROUGH THE DARKNESS. BUT DARKNESS, WE DO HAVE TO GO THROUGH. IF WE'RE GOING TO FIND OURSELVES, MAKE THE TRUE DECISIONS THAT WERE SHAPING WHO WE ARE AND IF WE'RE GOING TO LEARN TO MAKE SELF SACRIFICES FOR SOME NOBLE GOOD, IF WE'RE GOING TO LEARN HOW TO LEARN HOW TO TRUST IN GOD AND TRUST HIM AS WE'RE MOVING THROUGH THE DESERT. IF WE'RE GOING TO LEARN HOW TO MAKE THE DECISIONS TO MAKE SALVATION AND HELP OTHERS TO GET TO THEIR SALVATION. IF WE'RE GOING TO DO THESE THINGS, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO LEARN TO GO THROUGH THE DARKNESS. SO, YOU KNOW, IT'S UNFORTUNATE THAT WE HAVE THE CHILDLIKE REACTION AND AS MY DAD WOULD HAVE TOLD ME, YOU GOT TO GIVE IT UP. YOU GOT TO GIVE IT UP THINKING THAT LIFE IS GOING TO BE PERFECTLY FAIR. IT ISN'T. YOU GOT TO GIVE UP THAT GOD DOESN'T CARE ABOUT YOU, IF YOU ARE SUFFERING. HE DOES. HE CARES MORE INTENSELY ABOUT YOU THAN WHEN YOU WEREN'T SUFFERING. IN THE SENSE, HE'S MORE PRESENT TO YOU. BUT YOU CAN'T FEEL IT. YOU GOT TO GIVE UP THIS THOUGHT THAT YOUR FEELINGS ARE NOT GOING TO BE ULTIMATELY DECEPTIVE, THAT YOUR FEELINGS ARE REVEALING AT ALL TIMES REALITY TO YOU WHEN OF COURSE, YOU KNOW THAT 20% OF THE TIME, REVEALING EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE. AND YOU HAVE TO LEARN HOW TO BE DISCERNING, HOW TO BE RATIONALE, FAITH-FILLED, HOW TO TRUST IN GOD, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOUR FEELINGS, WHEN YOU KNOW THAT YOUR FEELINGS ARE LIKELY TO BE DECEIVING YOU. AND MY DAD WOULD JUST SAY, OKAY. YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO LEARN THESE LESSONS IN LIFE. IT'S NOT GOING TO BE EASY. BUT GOD WILL HELP YOU TO LEARN THEM TOO. I'M GOING TO TRY TO HELP YOU LEARN THEM TOO. BUT LEARN THEM YOU MUST. OTHERWISE, YOU ARE JUST GOING TO TORMENT YOURSELF, TORMENT EVERY ONE. WITH THE SADNESS THAT COMES OVER YOU, THAT YOU FALSELY BELIEVE THAT GOD DOESN'T CARE BECAUSE YOU ARE SUFFERING. >> AND I KNOW JUST AS WE GO TO BREAK, MOTHER ANGELICA FELT ACTUALLY MORE COMFORTABLE WHEN SHE WAS GOING THROUGH THE PERIODS. BECAUSE SHE FELT LIKE, I CONTINUE TO RELY ON THE LORD. WHEN THE SUFFERING IS NOT THERE AS MUCH I START TO RELY MORE ON MYSELF. AND IT'S JUST SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT. WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A BREAK HERE WITH FATHER SPITZER TALKING ABOUT HIS NEW BOOK, HAVING TO DO WITH SUFFERING, THE LIGHT SHINES ON IN THE DARKNESS. IT'S A BOOK OF HOPE. AND STAY WITH US, MUCH MORE AHEAD IN "FR. SPITZER'S UNIVERSE". ♪ ♪ >> Doug: AND IN THE TWINKLING OF AN EYE, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT FATHER SPITZER'S NEW BOOK, THE FIRST CHAPTER WE'RE JUST GETTING INTO IT. THE BOOK IS, THE LIGHT SHINES ON IN THE DARKNESS. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SUFFERING. LET'S JUST REJOIN FATHER SPITZER TO THROW MORE QUESTIONS AT HIM FROM ONE OF OUR FRIENDLY VIEWERS WHO GOT US, A QUESTION VIA FACEBOOK WHICH IS ONE OF THE WAYS, FACEBOOK, TWITTER, AND EMAILING US. THIS PERSON WROTE TO US, I'VE BEEN DEALING WITH A CHRONIC DISEASE FOR FIVE YEARS. I'VE COME TO ACCEPT IT. I'VE LEARNED SO MANY PEOPLE ARE TERRIFIED OF ILLNESS AND SUFFERING. SHOULD WE ACCEPT THE CARDS WE'RE DEALT OR DOES IT SHOW A LACK OF FAITH IN A MIRACLE. THIS IS MERCEDES. SO, IF I AM DEALING WITH, SHOULD I JUST ACCEPT IT AS MY LOT IN LIFE AND SAY, THE LORD IS WORKING WITH ME. SHOULD I PRAY FOR A MIRACLE. PRAY TO BE HEALED. IF I AM DOING THAT, AM I WALKING AWAY OR FROM WHAT THE LORD HAS IN STORE WITH ME. HOW IS THE LORD SUPPOSED TO DEAL WITH THAT. >> MERCEDES, THAT'S A VERY GOOD QUESTION. BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, ACCEPTANCE IS THE PATH OF, JESUS TEACHES US. AND ST. PAUL'S SECOND LETTER TO THE CORINTHIANS, 12, NOTE HOW HE PHRASES IT. HE WAS GIVEN A THORN IN THE FLESH AND AN ANGEL OF SATAN TO BEAT HIM TO KEEP HIM FROM BEING CONCEITED. AND HE SAID, I ASKED THE LORD THREE TIMES THAT THIS MIGHT BE TAKEN FROM ME. WHAT IS HE DOING THERE? HE'S ASKING FOR A MIRACLE. THAT'S RIGHT. AND THREE TIMES, BY THE WAY DOESN'T MEAN LITERALLY THREE TIMES. IT MEANS, AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN, A WHOLE LOTA TIMES. SO, THE IDEA THEN FOR HIM IS THAT HE DID TRY THE MIRACLE ROUTE. HE DID ASK FOR A MIRACLE. BUT AFTER AWHILE, WHAT DOES HE SAY? HE SAYS, I CAME TO REALIZE THAT IN MY WEAKNESS IS MY STRENGTH. SO, EXACTLY WHAT YOU DISCOVERED MERCEDES, THAT YOU ACCEPTED THE SUFFERING AND THEN YOU BEGIN TO SEE, HEY, AS I AM WEAK, I'M GROWING STRONGER AND STRONGER IN FAITH. CHRIST JESUS IS GROWING STRONGER AND STRONGER WITHIN ME. I'M HAVING TO GROW IN HUMILITY AS AS WELL AND NOW, YOU ARE RECOGNIZING AND SEEING, PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THIS AND YOU HAVE A MINISTRY TO HELP THEM ACCEPT THEIR SUFFERINGS AND TO GROW AS YOU HAVE GROWN THROUGH YOUR SUFFERING TO GROW IN FAITH, AND TO GROW IN, YOU KNOW, VIRTUE TO GROW IN HUMILITY, TO GROW IN LOVE SO THAT YOU CAN ACTUALLY NOT ONLY BE ON THE PATH TO SALVATION BUT HELP OTHERS TO BE ON THEIR PATH TO SALVATION AS WELL. >> Doug: NOW, IN YOUR BOOK, IN THE CHAPTER GETTING INTO THE IN THE TWINKLING OF AN EYE. AND AS YOU SAID, THE RESURRECTION A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO, IMPORTANCE OF UNDERSTANDING THE RESURRECTION, INTERESTING BECAUSE FOR ST. PAUL, JESUS' RESURRECTION IS THE FILMING OF ISIAH'S PROPHECY AND THE REDEMPTION IS WHERE EVERY TEAR IS WIPED AWAY AND TRANSFORMED INTO JOY. LATER, YOU WENT ON TO SAY, THE CONNECTION BETWEEN THE CROSS AND SUFFERING, RESURRECTION, IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE THE RESURRECTION SEEMS TO BE IN THE DEEMING PATHWAY OF UNCONDITIONAL LOVE AND JOY. IS IT PEOPLES' TODAY IN SOME WAYS FAILING TO REALLY TAKE THE RESURRECTION SERIOUSLY OR QUESTION THE RESURRECTION THAT MAKES IT THAT MUCH MORE DIFFICULT FOR THEM TO BE DEALING WITH THEIR OWN SUFFERING? >> Father: I THINK SO. I REALLY DO. HOW DID EUROPE WITH STAND THE BUBONIC PLAGUE WITHOUT GOING INTO A COLLECTIVE DESPAIR. THEY HAD FAITH IN THE RESURRECTION. YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT, THAT WAS AN AGE OF FAITH, DESPITE THE MOST HORRIBLE KIND OF THING THAT HAPPENED IN THE FORM OF THE BUBONIC PLAGUE. I'M NOT, YOU KNOW, JUST MOVING BACK FROM THAT FOR JUST A MOMENT AND GETTING BACK TO TODAY, I THINK THAT THEIR REALLY IS, YOU KNOW, SO MUCH MORE ANXIETY OVER SUFFERING BECAUSE THERE REALLY ISN'T THAT VERY STRONG FAITH IN THE RESURRECTION THAT, YOU KNOW, MAYBE FORMER AGES HAD. SO, SOME OF THIS REASON FOR THIS IS VERY CLEAR. YOU KNOW, A LOT OF PEOPLE TODAY BOMBARDED BY SKEPTICISM OF EVERY KIND, SECULARISM OF EVERY KIND, SOCIAL MEDIA AND THE TRADITIONAL MEDIA, I MEAN, THERE ARE REALLY MATERIALISTIC VIEWPOINT OUT THERE THAT REALLY HAS UNDERMINED ESPECIALLY FOR A LOT OF OUR YOUNGER PEOPLE, UNDERMINING THEIR FAITH AND RESURRECTION. AND THAT'S WHY IN THE FIRST CHAPTER, I SPENT SO MUCH TIME GOING OVER THE EVIDENCE THAT THE RESURRECTION, GOD HAS LEFT US WITH. IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT BUT GOD HAS GIVEN US SCIENTIFICALLY VALID, DATA, EVIDENCE OF THE RESURRECTION AND SCIENTIFICALLY VALID EVIDENCE OF OUR OWN RESURRECTION INTO LOVE AND JOY. SO, I SPENT A LOT OF TIME FIRST OF ALL, LOOKING AT THE SHROUD OF TURIN, WHICH WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IN THIS PROGRAM BEFORE. I THUNK IT'S VERY SCIENTIFICALLY VALIDATED. AND YOU KNOW, I KNOW THE CHURCH HASN'T PROCLAIMED THIS. BUT READ THE SCIENCE. IT'S UNBELIEVABLE WHAT A CLUE WE HAVE, WHAT A SIGN WE HAVE OF THE RESURRECTION, I MEAN, INTO LIGHT, INTO GLORY THAT IS EMBLAZONED ON THAT LINEN. AND I SPENT A LOT OF TIME TALKING ABOUT NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCES AND TALKING ABOUT SPECIFIC STORIES OF NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCES. AND BECAUSE IT'S SCIENTIFICALLY ANALYZABLE. YOU CAN ACTUALLY VERIFY AFTER THE FACT THAT THE VERIDICAL DATA TOOK PLACE WHEN A PERSON WAS ACCURATE OF NOT ONLY WHAT'S HAPPENING, AND THEN O.R., SAY, IN THE O.R., OPERATING ROOM OR IN THE WAITING ROOM AND I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW, THE LORD WANTS PEOPLE TO KNOW THAT HE'S LEFT US WITH THESE SCIENTIFICALLY ANALYZABLE INCLUDES AND THEN, THE BEAUTY OF THE STORIES OF PEOPLE BEING COMPLETELY ALLEVIATED AND BEING SWEPT INTO THIS BEAUTY OF THE INTENSE WHITE LIGHT AND SO BEAUTIFUL AND UNCONDITIONALLY LOVING THAT IT WIPES AWAY ALL FORMS OF ALIENATION OR PSYCHOLOGICAL PAIN. AND ALMOST INSTANTLY, I CAN READ SOME OF THE STORIES. >> THE MAIN THING CLEARLY, GOD IS GIVING US A CLUE AND THE REASON I GO INTO THE VALIDATED MIRACLES, LIKE, FATIMA OR JUST A PICTURE OF GUADALUPE. AND THE LOURDES MEDICAL COMMISSION, SHOWING ALL THESE INCREDIBLE MIRACLES AND GOING INTO IT AND SIMPLY BECAUSE IT'S AN IMPORTANT THING TO SEE, GOD HAS NOT LEFT US BEREFT. IT'S IN AN AGE WHERE WE'RE GOING TO GET SOCKED AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN BY THE SECULAR SOCIETY, YOU KNOW, TELLING US THERE'S NO GOD, TELLING US THERE'S NO RESURRECTION. YOU TURN RIGHT AROUND AND WE HAVE MORE SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE OF GOD MORE THAN WE'VE EVER HAD. AND IT'S MORE RIGOROUS THAN IT EVER HAS BEEN. EVIDENCE FROM NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCES THAT ARE SCIENTIFICALLY VALIDATED. AND THE SHROUD OF TURIN, THE HISTORICAL ARGUMENTS OF THE RESURRECTION OF JESUS ARE SO MUCH BETTER THAN FROM ANY OTHER PREVIOUS THINGS. WE'RE NOT LEFT BEREFT WE CAN LAY IT ON THICK AND DOCTOR MARIO BEAUREGARD AND YOU KNOW, THEY RESPOND TO THE PHYSICALISTS IN BRUTAL FASHION AND YOU HAVEN'T RESPONDED TO ANY OF THAT YOU HAVEN'T DONE THAT WITH ANY OF YOUR CRUDE EXPLANATION OR TEMPORAL LOBE HALLUCINATIONS AND PEOPLE ARE SAYING, OH, NO. THIS SHROUD IS A FORGERY. YOU KNOW, THESE KIND OF CLAIMS OF A MEDIEVAL FORGERY OF A SHROUD DISPLAY SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE AND ALL OF THE SCIENTIFIC TESTING DONE ON THE SHROUD. THIS IS LIKE COMING OVER AND TELLING SOMEBODY, OH, CALCULUS IS JUST NON SENSE AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT ALGEBRA IS SUFFICIENT FOR EVERYTHING. AND YOU LOOK AT THIS AND YOU GO, WAIT A MINUTE. IT'S BEEN TESTED A HUNDRED THOUSAND TIMES. AND ACTUALLY, ALL OF THESE FORMULATIONS THAT WE HAVE, AND YOU KNOW, THAT WE HAVE PROVED MATHEMATICALLY, THEY WORK. THE BRIDGE IS STANDING UP. AND NOW, WE HAVE TO GOT STOP BEING SO RETICENT AND BEING MORE LIKE DOCTOR MARIO BEAUREGARD OR DOCTOR PEINLOVEL AND THEY JUST COME BACK AGAIN AND AGAIN AND PEOPLE FROM THE MEDICAL COMMISSION DO NOT ACCEPT NO FOR AN ANSWER. AND WE HAVE TO BECOME LIKE THEM. AND WE HAVE TO TAKE THEIR TESTIMONY, PUTTING IT OUT IN FRONT OF THE CULTURE, EVEN THOUGH THE SECULAR MEDIA SO OFTEN TRY TO POO POO IT. IT'S NOT POO POOABLE. IF IT WAS POO POOABLE, IT WOULD NOT BE SCIENTIFICALLY ANALYZABLE. AND FOR ALL INTENSIVE PURPOSES, WE HAVE TO LEAVE OUR MARK ON THE GREAT DEAL OF STRENGTH, GREAT DEAL IN BELIEF AND THE GOOD TESTING THAT HAS BEEN DONE AND REDONE. TO HELP US AND I SPENT A LOT OF TIME ON THAT. >> SO, NOT POO POOABLE, IS THAT IN THE URBAN DICTIONARY OR IS THAT ONE THAT YOU JUST MADE UP? >> WELL, THE DICTIONARY, MAYBE THAT'S WHAT IT IS. >> LET ME ASK YOU ANOTHER QUESTION FROM YOUR BOOK. OKAY. HAVE YOU A COUPLE OF THINGS IN HERE, I THOUGHT IT WAS INTERESTING, TALKING ABOUT THE RESURRECTION, VALIDITY AND THE FAITH IN THE GOSPEL, YOU SAY, YOU TALK ABOUT HOW WHEN YOU READ THE GNOSTIC GOSPEL AND YOU MARVELED AT THE HUMILITY OF THE SYNOPTIC GOSPEL AND MOST IMPORTANT THE TONE OF THE GOSPEL TEXTS SEEMS JUST RIGHT. WHAT DID YOU MEAN WHEN YOU SAID THAT. >> OKAY. HERE'S WHAT I MEANT. IT WAS TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. HERE I WAS, I WAS A COLLEGE STUDENT AND I MUST ADMIT NOT THE MOST PERCEPTIVE ONE IN THE WORLD. BUT THE TWO THINGS, IN A SCRIPTURE CLASS THAT I HAD IN COLLEGE, THEY TALKED ABOUT THE GNOSTIC GOSPEL AND THEY WERE SO HYPERBOLIC, YOU LOOK AT THEM AND YOU ALMOST HAD TO LAUGH BECAUSE JESUS IS ON THE PLAYGROUND OVER THERE. AND THE GOSPEL OF THOMAS OR SOMETHING LIKE THIS, AND YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY DOES SOMETHING STUPID AND HE GOES, YOU IDIOT AND TURNS HIM INTO STONE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. OR, I DON'T LIKE YOU AS A PLAY MATTE AND THE GUY IS WIPED AWAY FROM THE EARTH. AND YOU LOOK AT THIS AND HE WALKS BY AND LOOKS AT A CLAY PIGEON AND SAYS, OH, I'LL TURN IT INTO A REAL PIGEON AND YOU LOOK AT ALL OF THIS. AND YOU GO, NO, NO, THIS IS JUST ABSOLUTELY FANTASY. YET, THE GOSPEL, OUR GOSPEL, THE REAL GOSPEL, COMPLETELY RESTRAINED FROM IT. THERE'S NONE OF THAT KIND OF GNOSTIC HYPERBOLE. YOU JUST LOOK AT THEM AND IT'S ALMOST LIKE THEY ARE UTTERLY RESTRAINED. AND THAT IS REALLY IMPRESSING ME. IT WAS ALMOST, LIKE, YOU KNOW, DON'T YOU WANT TO EXAGGERATE JUST A LITTLE BIT. DON'T YOU WANT TO MAKE THE CASE A LITTLE BIT STRONGER DON'T YOU WANT TO GET THAT APOLOGETICAL GOING ON, A LITTLE FURTHER DOWN THE TRACK OF THE AND THE ANSWER IS, NO. THEY DON'T DO IT. WHEREAS, THE GNOSTIC GOSPEL WERE REJECTED BY THE CHURCH DO IT ALL THE TIME. AND IT'S ALMOST LIKE THEY CAN'T GET OUT OF THEIR OWN WAY. THEY ARE SO STUCK IN THE MODE OF EXAGGERATION HYPERBOLE THEY CAN'T GET OUT OF THEIR OWN WAY. THAT WAS THE FIRST THING THAT STRUCK ME. BUT THE OTHER THING THAT STRUCK ME WHEN I WAS READING THE GOSPEL, ABOUT TRUTH. THEY DIDN'T TRY TO SUGAR COAT THE FACT THAT CONVERSION WAS GOING TO BE TOUGH AND THAT THERE WAS GOING TO BE SUFFERING. IT REALLY BLEW ME AWAY. I WAS THINKING TO MYSELF. HEY. IF I WAS GOING TO TRY TO GET A LOT OF CONVERTS TO CHRISTIANITY, WHAT'S THE FIRST THING THAT I WOULD DO. I WOULD TRY TO SUGAR COAT THE SUFFERING PART. AND DON'T WORRY, IT'S NOT GOING TO BE TOO BAD. HERE, JESUS, YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO TAKE UP YOUR CROSS AND FOLLOW ME. I'M TELLING YOU RIGHT NOW, THE SON OF MAN HAS NOWHERE TO LAY HIS HEAD AND YOU BETTER GET USED TO THIS THEY ARE GOING TO PERSECUTE YOU JUST LIKE THEY PERSECUTED ME. AND I'M THINKING, HEY, WHAT KIND OF MESS AG. I THOUGHT YOU WERE TRYING TO TALK ME INTO THIS. GET ANOTHER CONVERT. NO WAY. THEY ARE TOO HONEST. THAT'S THE FIRST THING. SO, IF THIS IS NOT HONESTY I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS. AND THE SECOND THING, THEY CARED ABOUT ME, MY CONVERSION, MY MOVING AWAY FROM SIN, THEY CARED ABOUT ME SO MUCH THAT THEY TOOK THE RISK OF TURNING ME OFF IN ORDER TO GIVE ME THE STRAIGHT MESSAGE THAT THAT'S GOT TO BE TRUE BUT IT'S NOT JUST TRUTH, IT'S LOVE WITH A CAPITAL L, THEY CARED, THEY LOVED ME ENOUGH TO TELL ME THE TRUTH OF WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN IF I BECAME A CHRISTIAN BUT TO TELL ME THE GOOD NEWS THAT WOULD ALSO BE THERE. WHY WOULD I ONLY DOUBT THE GOOD NEWS IF THEY WERE TELLING ME, WITH A COMPLETE STRAIGHT FACE WHAT THE BAD NEWS REALLY IS. >> Doug: WELL, THE BAD NEWS, FATHER IS, THAT IF WE DON'T WRAP OUT OF THE SHOW, THEY ARE GOING TO TURN US OFF. LITERALLY, FIGURATIVE AND ELECTRONICALLY RIGHT HERE. SO, WITH THAT, HE'LL LEAVE EVERYBODY WANTING MORE AND WE'LL TELL YOU ABOUT SUFFERING WITH FATHER'S NEW BOOK, ON THE LIGHT SHINES IN THE DARKNESS, OF COURSE, TRANSFORMING SUFFERING THROUGH FAITH. AND OF COURSE, FATHER SPITZER WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK. OF COURSE, DON'T FORGET THERE'S FOUR BOOKS IN THE QUARTET AND YOU CAN CHECK IT OUT ON THE SCREEN, R.C., ewtnRC.com. AND DON'T FORGET THE MAGIS CENTER, TO FIND OUT ABOUT FATHER SPITZER'S WONDERFUL WORK. GO TO ewtn.com FOR ALL OF THE WONDERFUL INFORMATION ON PROGRAMMING RIGHT HERE. AND AS WELL YOU CAN WATCH THE SHOW ON TV. AND LISTEN TO ON THE RADIO. RIGHT HERE AT THE INTERSECTION OF FAITH AND REASON. WE EXPECT TO SEE YOU THERE NEXT WEEK. ♪
