[MUSIC] >> WELCOME ONCE AGAIN TO "FR. SPITZER'S UNIVERSE," I'M DOUG KECK, YOUR HOST AT THE INTERSECTION OF FAITH AND REASON DIRECTING TRAFFIC HERE AS WE MOVE AHEAD IN ADVENT. YOUR QUESTIONS ARE SO IMPORTANT, THEY REALLY DRIVE THE PROGRAM. AND YOU CAN WRITE US THOSE QUESTIONS ON TWITTER, FACEBOOK AND THERE'S MULTIPLE WEB SITE TO GO TO. magiscenter.com AND ALSO, crediblecatholic.com AS WELL. CHRIST VS. SATAN IN OUR DAILY LIVES: THE COSMIC STRUGGLE BETWEEN GOOD AND EVIL SOUNDS LIKE A WONDERFUL NEW BOOK, AND IN FACT IT IS, IT'S FATHER SPITZER NEW BOOK. THAT'S THE BOOK WE'RE GOING THROUGH. AND BOOK OF THE MONTH, ABC, GET TO KNOW THE SAINTS WITH ME! BY CAROLINE PERKINS WELL KNOWN FROM CHURCH POP AND A GREAT CHRISTMAS GIFT. IT'S FLYING OFF THE SHELVES AS WELL AS RAYMOND'S BOOK, THE SPIDER WHO SAVED CHRISTMAS. NOW, GOOD TO SEE YOU, FATHER, LET'S MOVE OUT TO THE WEST COAST. >> MY ADVENT IS PRETTY GOOD. TRYING TO DEEPEN THE SPIRITUAL LIFE A LITTLE BIT, OPEN MYSELF UP TO THE LORD. AND SEEMS TO BE WORKING AND HE SEEMS TO BE GETTING RIGHT ON IN THERE. VERY, VERY GOOD ADVENT SO FAR. >> TERRIFIC. KICK US OFF, AS YOU ALWAYS DO, WITH A PRAYER, THAT WOULD BE GREAT. >> IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, SON, AND THE HOLY SPIRIT. AMEN. HEAVENLY FATHER, AS WE ENTER EVER MORE DEEPLY INTO THE ADVENT SEASON, WE ASK YOU TO OPEN OUR HEARTS TO THE COMING OF YOUR SON, TO THE COMING, HIS COMING IN OUR LIVES, IN OUR EFFECT, IN OUR SOULS SO THAT WE MIGHT, WHEN OPENING OURSELVES TO HIM, FOLLOW HIM MORE NEARLY INTO THE FULLNESS OF YOUR KINGDOM, FULLNESS OF YOUR LOVE. WE ASK YOU TO SEND YOUR HOLY SPIRIT DOWN UPON DOUG, MYSELF, AND OUR WHOLE AUDIENCE THIS DAY SO THAT WE MAY BE INSPIRED, PROTECTED AND GUIDED TO DO YOUR WILL. BRING ALL THAT WE DO TO THE FRUITION IN THAT WILL THROUGH JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD, AMEN. MARY, SEAT OF WISDOM AND SAINT JUAN DIEGO, PRAY FOR US. IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, SON, AND OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. AMEN. >> AMEN. VERY GOOD. HERE WE ARE IN ADVENT MOVING AHEAD TOWARD CHRISTMAS, COMING UP. WE HAVE THIS SHOW AND NEXT WEEK WE'RE GOING TO BE RUNNING A PROGRAM THAT'S GOING TO BE ONE THAT WE DID IN THE PAST, ABOUT THE THREE KINGS SO PEOPLE CAN LOOK FORWARD TO THAT AS WELL. SO, LET'S TALK ABOUT A COUPLE OF THINGS RELATED TO CHRISTMAS. LET'S SAY, ON THE LIGHTER SIDE, THINGS GOING ON, IT MIGHT BE NICE. DECEMBER 21, JUPITER AN SATURN WILL GOING TO APPEAR CLOSER SINCE THE MIDDLE AGES. THE EFFECT IS GOING TO CREATE A CHRISTMAS STAR OR STAR OF BETHLEHEM FOR 2020. TALKING ABOUT IT BEING A DOUBLE PLANET THAT APPEARS LIKE A LARGE STAR. AND THE LAST TIME SOMETHING LIKE THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN SEEN WAS IN 1226. THEY GO ON TO SAY, THE RARE JUNCTION OF JUPITER VENUS AND THE REGULAR STAR, THE ONE THEY THINK IS THE ACTUAL CHRISTMAS STAR. SO, WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT? >> WELL, ACTUALLY THERE'S FAIRLY GOOD EVIDENCE THAT CONJUNCTION OCCURRED IN 2B.C. NOW, AGAIN, WAS THAT THE ACTUAL DATE THAT JESUS WAS BORN? IT MIGHT BE. AND PART OF THE REASON WE'RE NOT SURE IS BECAUSE SOME OF THE DATING THAT'S BEEN DONE RELATIVE TO THE STAR COMES FROM JOSEPHUS. THERE ARE TWO MAJOR INTERPRETATIONS OF TWO WORKS OF JOSEPHUS THAT PLACE THE STAR, PERHAPS, THE ONE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT REGULUS, JUPITER AND VENUS, AND THAT IS WHAT PRODUCED THE EFFECT OF THE CHRISTMAS STAR, THEN PROBABLY WAS IN 2BC THAT CHRIST WAS BORN. COULD IT BE SOMETHING ELSE? WELL, THERE ARE TWO OTHER EXPLANATIONS THAT ARE PROPOSED. TWO ASTRONOMICAL EXPLANATIONS, PRODUCING A BRIGHT AND IRREGULAR EFFECT SIMILAR TO WHAT MAY HAVE BEEN INTERPRETED AS A STAR. THE FIXITY OF THE STAR, THOUGH, THAT PART OF THE STORY IS PROBABLY BEST EXPLAINED BY THE CONJUNCTION OF REGULUS, VENUS, AND JUPITER. SO, THAT SEEMS TO BE A PLAUSIBLE DATE. AGAIN, WE CANNOT BE ABSOLUTELY SURE OF THE YEAR THAT CHRIST WAS BORN BECAUSE, OF COURSE, THE DATING DOES DEPEND NOT ONLY ON ASTRONOMICAL PLACEMENT OF THE STARS BUT ON THE DEATH OF HEROD. AND DEATH OF HEROD WAS DETERMINED BY JOSEPHUS' TWO WORKS. SO, IT'S A PRETTY, WELL, PRETTY DIFFICULT FOR ANY HISTORIAN TO HAVE A HUNDRED% ACCURACY. SO, THERE'S A GOOD POSSIBILITY OF THE 2BC DATE, IF YOU WANT TO DO THE DATING ON THE BASIS OF THE STAR, ONE GOOD POSSIBILITY FOR THE PHENOMENON THAT WE CALL THE CHRISTMAS STAR. >> AHA! NOT SO FAST. ITALIAN RESEARCHER PUTS IT DECEMBER 1, BC, EDWARD PENTON, COMING OUT OF THE REGISTER FROM ITALY TALKING ABOUT THE RESEARCH OF THIS. HE SAYS, FIRST OF ALL, THIS IS HIS RESPONSE. AND I JUST THOUGHT IT WAS AN INTERESTING CONCEPT, ELUDE TO GO WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, DATING THE PROBLEMS. FIRST OF ALL, IT'S USEFUL TO RECALL THAT THE HEBREW CALENDAR IS LUNAR, AND THE LAST 11 DAYS TIMES 3 EQUALS ABOUT A MONTH. THEREFORE TO REALIGN THE HEBREW CALENDAR WITH THE SEASONS, IT WAS TO ADD A 13TH MONTH EVERY YEAR, FALLING EVERY SPRING, THAT YEAR, 13 MONTHS IS CALLED EMBOLISMIC AND THAT'S SOME OF THE REASONS, HIM TAKING IT INTO ACCOUNT, PUTTING HIS OPINION OR PUTTING FORTH THE POSSIBILITY THAT IT COULD BE IN DECEMBER AND IN FACT, COULD HAVE BEEN 1BC. AGAIN, 1BC, 2BC, JOSEPHUS WAS WRITING HOW MANY YEARS LATER EVEN, HIS WRITINGS? >> WELL, ABOUT 40-50 YEARS LATER. SO, BASICALLY, IF YOU LOOK AT THAT, YOU KNOW, HE'S LOOKING AT JEWISH TEXTS REGARDING THE DEATH OF HEROD. AND IF WE BASE OUR ESTIMATES OF CHRIST'S BIRTH ON THE DEATH OF HEROD, THEN OF COURSE, YOU LOOK TO JOSEPHUS AND WAS JOSEPHUS ACCURATE, WELL, IT'S SO HARD TO CONNECT IT WITH OUR OWN CALENDAR BUT CERTAINLY IS WITHIN THE VICINITY OF A STAR, THE DEATH OF HEROD, VARIOUS OTHER KINDS OF CONNECTIONS WITH THE HEBREW CALENDAR. WE'RE IN THE VICINITY, AND I THINK THAT DECEMBER 25TH IS JUST AS GOOD AN ESTIMATE AS ANYBODY COULD POSSIBLY GET. >> AND IN MANY MORE WAYS, IT'S THE BENCHMARK FOR THE BIRTH OF CHRIST AND THIS HAPPENING, THAN SO MANY OTHER HISTORICAL EVENTS THAT WE TAKE FOR GRANTED IN HISTORY, RIGHT? >> YEAH, EXACTLY. MANY OF THE ANCIENT EVENTS ARE ESTIMATES, YES. AND IF YOU HAVE A SPECIFIC DATE, THAT'S BECAUSE SOME RELIABLE HISTORIAN ACTUALLY ASSIGNS A DATE WITH SOMETHING THAT CAN BE VALIDATED OR VERIFIED AFTER THE FACT BY SOMEBODY WHO HAS ACCESS TO THAT KNOWLEDGE. SO, IF IT WAS A PARTICULAR WEATHER EVENT, ASTRONOMICAL EVENT, YOU KNOW, THE CHRISTMAS STAR IS TOUGH TO IDENTIFY. YOU CAN'T JUST SAY, OH, THIS WAS DOING THIS, VENUS WAS DOING THIS. PEOPLE DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS VENUS. THEY BASICALLY THOUGHT THINGS WERE STARS, THEY DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS A PLANET. BUT THEY HAD IT IDENTIFIED AS VENUS WAS A MYTHICAL CHARACTER AND WHETHER IT WAS A PLANET OR A STAR OR WHOLE OTHER QUESTION ALL TOGETHER. >> SO, ALSO, WHAT'S INTERESTING, WHAT WE'RE SAYING NOW, EFFECTIVELY, DOES IT MATTER WHETHER OR NOT IT WAS DECEMBER OR CERTAINLY DOES IT MATTER WHETHER IT WAS 1BC OR 2BC OR 1AD? >> NO, IT DOES NOT. >> WHAT WE DO KNOW, EFFECTIVELY, IT HAPPENED. >> RIGHT. IT HAPPENED AND REDEMPTION CAME INTO THE WORLD THROUGH GOD'S GOOD GRACE AND MARY'S GOOD FIAT. THAT'S WHAT REALLY MATTERS. WE ARE SAVED AS A RESULT OF THAT. NOW, LET'S GO ON TO THE PRESIDENT ELECT JOE BIDEN THAT HE SHOULD NOT RECEIVE HOLY EUCHARIST BECAUSE OF THE GRAVE SUPPORT OF THE MORAL SIN, ABORTION. HE CAME OUT AND MADE THE STATEMENT RELYING ON WHAT WAS SAID BACK IN 2004, A STATEMENT SIMILAR TO THAT. AND THAT CAME OUT BECAUSE THERE WAS A STATEMENT BY THE CARDINAL ARCHBISHOP OF WASHINGTON WHO SAID, IT'S NOT A MATTER OF CONFUSION ON MY PART. IT'S A MATTER OF RESPONSIBILITY THAT I HAVE AS ARCHBISHOP TO BE ENGAGED AND IN DIALOGUE WITH JOE BIDEN. NOW, EVEN IF THOSE, WE HAVE SOME DIFFERENCES. AND THAT KIND OF PROMOTED AND PROMPTED THE DISCUSSION. ONE THING THAT STRUCK ME AT THE END OF THAT, AND AGAIN, THERE'S PRUDENTIAL AND DIFFERENT PEOPLE HAVE DIFFERENT OPINIONS, THOUGH I WOULD TEND TO FOLLOW ARCHBISHOP CHAPUT. NOW, RECEIVING HOLY EUCHARIST WORTHILY, IS A DIFFERENCE, LIKE, ALMOST A DIFFERENCE OF OPINION. ISN'T IT GREATER THAN THAT? >> Father: WELL, IN MY VIEW, YES, IT IS. THIS IS A RELIGIOUS ISSUE. AND IT'S DIRECTLY A RELIGIOUS ISSUE. POLITICS DOESN'T ENTER INTO THIS. IF YOU ARE LITERALLY SUPPORTING ABORTION, NOT ONLY SUPPORTING IT BUT ACTUALLY ADVOCATING IT ON THE HIGHEST IMAGINABLE LEVEL FOR ALL THE MONTHS OF PREGNANCY RIGHT UP UNTIL THE TIME OF BIRTH, YOU ARE ADVOCATING FOR THIS ACTIVELY, NOT ONLY WITH THE PARTY'S PLATFORM BUT PERSONALLY IDENTIFYING YOURSELF TO IT, I SAY, THAT'S SUPPORTING A GRAVE MORAL EVIL. AND ST. PAUL AND THE CHURCH HAVE GIVEN US PRETTY CLEAR RULES ABOUT THE RECEPTION OF COMMUNION. AND WHEN YOU SUPPORT GRAVE MORAL EVIL, IN MY VIEW, IF SOMEBODY CAME UP AND SAID, WELL, GOSH, A COUPLE OF HITLER'S MAIN MEMBERS, OF THE CABINET WOULD LIKE TO RECEIVE COMMUNION, YEAH, THEY WERE ADVOCATING GENOCIDE OF THESE GROUPS, THE GYPSIES AND THE VIEWS. BUT NOTWITHSTANDING THAT, JUST A POLITICAL OPINION. I WOULD HAVE SAID, ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND? HOW IS THIS WORTHY RECEPTION OF HOLY EUCHARIST. YOU SHOULD KNOW THIS IS A GRAVE MORAL EVIL. AND AGAIN, I CAN'T JUDGE WHETHER JIHAD KNOWS THAT THIS IS A GRAVE MORAL EVIL OR NOT. BUT THAT HE IS AWARE OF IT BUT I CAN'T HELP BY THINK THAT THIS IS POINTED OUT BY ENOUGH GOOD CHURCH OFFICIALS THAT, YOU KNOW, ABORTION IS WRONG. AND PROMOTING IT ON A MASSIVE SCALE IS DEFINITELY GOT TO BE WRONG. SO, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW WHAT MORE YOU CAN ACTUALLY SAY TO ALERT THE PERSON TO THE FACT THAT THIS COMES TO AS CLOSE AS AN UNWORTHY RECEPTION OF HOLY EUCHARIST THAT YOU CAN GET. AND I WOULD SUPPOSE THAT ARCHBISHOP CHAPUT HAS A GOOD REASON FOR SAYING WHAT HE SAID. >> AND YOU BROUGHT THIS UP AND I SHOULD HAVE SAID IT, HIS POINT WAS, WE DON'T WANT TO POLITICIZE THE EUCHARIST. AND HIS POINT WAS, IT'S NOT AN ISSUE OF POLITICS, AS YOU SAID. IT'S A PASTORAL ISSUE. AND THE CALL IS FOR YOU AS A PASTOR IS TO CALL THIS PERSON OUT AND HAVING NOTHING TO DO WITH POLITICS. IT MAY HAVE POLITICAL FALLOUT. >> IMPLICATIONS. >> RIGHT. BUT THE ISSUE IS NOT POLITICAL, IT'S PASTORAL. >> YES. YES. >> VERY GOOD. SO, THE LAST TIME WE GOT TOGETHER. HERE'S A QUESTION THAT'S A FOLLOWUP ON THIS. A PERSON SENT US THIS EMAIL. SOMETHING THAT I RECOGNIZE AND REALIZED AND SOMETHING THAT I DIDN'T CORRECT ON THE PROGRAM. I MISPRONOUNCED THE WORD IMPRECATORY AND THE TERM PRAYER. AND I MISPRONOUNCED IT MAYBE YOU HEARD INTRODUCTORY. I KIND OF GAVE AN EXPLANATION OF THAT. WE DIDN'T HAVE THE TIME TO GO BACK OVER IT, KNOWING THAT WE WOULD BRING IT BACK UP AND LET ME SAY, A PERSON MENTIONED THE TERM, THE KIND OF PRAYER AND THEY SAID THE DEFINITION THEY READ IN WEBSTER'S IS CONFUSING SO HOW DOES THIS COMPARE TO CONTEMPLATIVE PRAYER. AND LINDA, WE APOLOGIZE FOR NOT ANSWERING YOUR QUESTION DIRECTLY LAST TIME. >> Father: I WOULD SAY THAT IMPRECATORY IS A KIND OF CONTEMPLATIVE PRAYER. AND I'M NOT SURE WHAT WEBSTER'S DICTIONARY DEFINES IT AS. BUT IT'S DEFINITELY A PRAYER, A PRAYER THAT HELPS US TO MOVE DEFINITELY INTO BOTH MORAL CONVERSION. AND YOU KNOW, IN MORAL CONVERSION HELPS US TO MOVE INTO A CONTEMPLATIVE STATE, GET BETTER BUT THE INSPIRATION OF US GETTING BETTER IS THE FACT THAT WE LOVE THE LORD, WE WANT TO DO HIS WILL AND WE WANT TO FOLLOW HIM. SO, IT IS KIND OF A CONTEMPLATIVE PRAYER. YEAH, I WOULD SAY, I WOULDN'T DRAW A FAST DISTINCTION BETWEEN THAT. IT'S JUST A PRAYER THAT HELPS US TO MOVE OUR HEARTS IN THE DIRECTION OF MORAL CONVERSION AND A KIND OF PRAYER THAT, THE MOTIVATION FOR THAT, OF COURSE, IS, I LOVE THE LORD. I WANT TO DO WHAT HIS WILL IS. I DON'T WANT TO DISAPPOINT HIM. I DON'T WANT TO DO SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO LEAD AWAY FROM HIS KINGDOM BEING ESTABLISHED ON THE EARTH AND SO, BASICALLY BECAUSE I'M MOVED BY THAT LOVE AND MOVED BY THE FACT THAT I'M TRYING TO DO AS WELL, I'M NOT SAYING THAT WE'RE ABLE TO DO IT PERFECTLY BUT WE'RE MOTIVATED BY THE DESIRE TO WANT TO FOLLOW HIM. I WOULD SAY, YEAH, A KIND OF A CONTEMPLATIVE PRAYER, SO I WOULD NOT DRAW FAST AND SHARP DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE TWO FORMS OF PRAYER. KIND OF OVERLAPPING IN A WAY. >> Doug: IS THERE AN EXAMPLE OF A TRADITIONAL PRAYER THAT PEOPLE MAY BE FAMILIAR WITH OR SOME FORM OF PRAYER THAT GIVEN AS AN EXAMPLE, WHAT FALLS IN THE CATEGORY OR SOMETHING PERSONAL? >> MY VIEW IS THAT IT'S MORE PERSONAL, LIKE THE PARTICULAR KIND OF PRAYER. I'M NOT, YOU KNOW, I DON'T THINK ACTUALLY THERE'S ONE. IF THERE IS ONE PROPOSED -- SURE THERE ARE SEVERAL THAT HAVE PROPOSED IT -- BUT I'M NOT FAMILIAR AND THEY ARE NOT ONE OF OUR COMMON PRAYERS, THAT'S FOR SURE. BUT I'M SURE THERE'S MANY PROPOSED FOR THAT PURPOSE. >> Doug: OKAY. NEXT QUESTION. DEAR FR. SPITZER, THE POPE'S RECENT ENCYCLICAL "FRATELLI TUTTI" SEEMS TO LEAN MORE TOWARDS SOCIALISM THAN CAPITALISM. HOW WOULD IT SQUARE WITH THE PILGRIMS' SOCIALIST EXPERIMENT RECENTLY DISCUSSED ON YOUR SHOW? RICK . RICK WAS WATCHING BEFORE THANKSGIVING. >> Father: OKAY. HERE'S TWO THOUGHTS. FIRST THING THAT WE WANT TO DO IS NOT NECESSARILY RUSH TO THE THOUGHT THAT THIS IS SOCIALISM PER SE. BUT YOU CAREFULLY WORDED IT THAT IT LEANS IN THAT DIRECTION. BUT WE HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL. THINK THE POPE'S INTENTION IS NOT SO MUCH TO PROMOTE SOCIALISM. I THINK THE POPE'S INTENTION IS TO CRITIQUE A BAD SIDE OF CAPITALISM. NOW, OF COURSE, CAPITALISM IS THE ONLY WAY THAT WE'RE ACTUALLY GOING TO HAVE EMPLOYMENT, THE ONLY WAY THAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE CREATIVITY, INNOVATION, RISK TAKING, ET CETERA, ET CETERA, YOU KNOW, IN AN ECONOMY. AND YOU NEED ALL OF THOSE THINGS. YOU ARE NOT GOING TO HAVE JOBS. YOU ARE NOT GOING TO HAVE THE CREATION OF NEW MECHANISMS OF PRODUCTION BY SOMEBODY SITTING IN A BUREAUCRATIC OFFICE FOLLOWING THE EDICT OF ANOTHER BUREAUCRAT. IT SIMPLY HAS NEVER WORKED, NEVER WILL WORK, THERE'S NEVER ENOUGH INCENTIVE TO TAKE THE RISK. NEVER ENOUGH INSENSITIVE NOT ONLY TO TAKE THE RISK, BUT DRIVE AND DRIVE AND DRIVE AGAINST ALL OF THE FORCES THAT ARE GOING TO TRY TO STOP THIS PRODUCTION FROM THE INCEPTION. AND ANY ENTREPRENEUR CAN TELL YOU, YOU ARE GOING TO BE FACING THESE KIND OF REAL DIFFICULTIES. SO, THESE THINGS ARE REALLY NECESSARY. WE NEED CREATIVE PEOPLE WHO ARE MOTIVATED BY SOME FORM OF BEING REWARDED FOR THEIR RISK. THAT'S A NORMAL THING. REWARDED FOR THEIR EFFORTS, REWARDED FOR COUNTLESS ATTEMPTS TO TRY TO OVERCOME THESE THINGS. AND BY THE WAY, THEY COULD LOSE EVERYTHING. SO, IF YOU DON'T GIVE A SUBSTANTIAL REWARD FOR THIS. IF YOU JUST MAKE THIS A BUREAUCRATIC EDICT, NOT GOING TO WORK, NEVER HAS WORKED. AND IN SOME SENSE, YOU NEED A CAPITALISTIC DRIVING FORCE THAT MOTIVATES CREATIVITY, MOTIVATE RISK, ENTREPRENEURIAL DRIVE, ET CETERA, TO GET NEW THINGS DONE. NEW MECHANISMS OF PRODUCTION PRODUCED. AND REMEMBER THIS, NOTHING IS PRODUCED UNTIL IT IS SOLD. SO, YOU HAVE TO HAVE SOMETHING USEFUL, SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE WANT. AND YOU NEED PRODUCTION BEHIND YOUR DOLLARS. THEN, WHEN YOU HIRE PEOPLE TO DO USEFUL PRODUCTION THAT WILL SELL BECAUSE IT IS USEFUL, PEOPLE CAN GET BENEFIT FROM IT, THEN BASICALLY, YOU HAVE WHAT WE MIGHT CALL AN ECONOMY GROUNDED ON GOODS AND SERVICES WHICH IS A STRONG ECONOMY, AND A STRONG DOLLAR OR STRONG CURRENCY, ET CETERA. OF COURSE, CAN CAPITALISM GO AWRY, YES. THIS IS EXACTLY WHERE RAREM NAVARREEM CAME FROM, FIRST SOCIAL ENCYCLICAL, 1891, PROMULGATED BY POPE LEO XIII AND IN THAT, WHAT'S HE REACTING TO? THE ABUSES OF CAPITALISM. NOW, WAS POPE LEO XIII AGAINST CAPITALISM? NO, ABSOLUTELY NOT. HE WAS VERY MUCH IN FAVOR OF THE SYSTEM OF CREATIVITY OF DRIVE OF ENTREPRENEURIAL FORTITUDE, RISK TAKING AND ET CETERA, HE SAYS THAT CLEARLY IN RAREM NAVAREM. AND HE IS CLEAR THAT THE EXPLOITATION OF LABOR -- AND IT WAS A TERRIBLE EXPLOITATION OF LABOR. I MEAN, PICK UP ANY CHARLES DICKENS NOVEL, OLIVER TWIST, ANY OF THEM. IT WAS WRIT LARGE WITH THE INDUSTRIAL CAPITALISM ON A LARGE SCALE IN ENGLAND. IT WAS ABUSIVE TO CHILDREN, WOMEN, AND THE POOR. AND PEOPLE WERE MAKING MAGNIFICENT SUMS OF MONEY ON THE BACKS OF POOR PEOPLE. AND THAT'S THE KIND OF THING THAT POPE LEO XIII WAS TRYING TO CORRECT. NOW, TODAY, WE DON'T LIVE IN THE INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION, GREAT BRITAIN THAT CHARLES DICKENS WAS CRITICIZING. HOWEVER, THERE ARE STILL ABUSES OF CAPITALISM TODAY. WHERE DO THOSE ABUSES COME FROM? WHEN, FOR EXAMPLE, PEOPLE TRY TO CREATE A MONOPOLY AND TRY TO FORCE COMPETITION OUT OF THE MARKET PLACE. AND THIS CAN BE DONE BY CUT THROAT COMPETITION AND VARIETY OF OTHER THINGS. PRICE DROPPING AND VARIETY OF OTHER LITTLE TRICKS OF THE TRADE WHEN SOMEBODY HAS, AS IT WERE, A MARKET ADVANTAGE IN CAPITALIZATION, THEY CAN CAUSE THESE MONOPOLIES TO OCCUR. THAT'S A BAD THING AND ITS GOING TO PRODUCE BAD EFFECTS FOR CONSUMERS, BAD EFFECTS FOR EMPLOYEES. OF COURSE, WE NEED LABOR LAWS THAT ARE IN PLACE. AND IN THE UNITED STATES, WE DO HAVE LABOR LAWS. WE HAVE INCREDIBLY GOOD LABOR LAWS IN PLACE COMPARED TO OTHER PLACES IN THE WORLD. THERE'S THE LINE I WANT TO UNDERLINE. COMPARED TO A LOT OF OTHER PLACES IN THE WORLD. THE UNITED STATES HAS A SET OF LAWS THAT PROTECT LABORS ACCORDING TO THE POPE LEO XIII ENCYCLICAL, RAREM NAVARREEM. AND THESE ARE IN PLACE, THERE IS TERRIFIC EXPLOITATION AND YOU CAN SAY, INDEED, YES, YOU LOOK AT SOME OF THE THINGS THAT ARE GOING ON, YOU KNOW, THAT WE CALL SWEAT SHOP CAPITALISM. SWEAT SHOP LABOR TO PRODUCE GOODS FOR COUNTRIES LIKE THE UNITED STATES, FOR EXAMPLE. AND THOSE SWEAT SHOPS ARE TERRIBLE, PEOPLE SLEEPING UNDER THEIR MACHINES, WORKING FOR 17 HOURS, JUST TERRIBLE. AND THE POPE IS NOT FOCUSING ON -- WE CAN'T LOOK AT HIM AND SAY HE'S CRITICIZING CAPITALISM IN THE UNITED STATES. I THINK, YEAH, HE MAY BE DOING THAT IN A GENERIC SENSE. BUT HE IS CERTAINLY, WE HAVE A LOT OF THINGS IN PLACE IN THE UNITED STATES THAT COME FROM A LOT OF LEARNING, A LOT OF EXCELLENT LEGISLATION OVER THE YEARS THAT HAVE REALLY MADE A LOT OF THESE PRACTICES OBSOLETE. PLUS, WE HAVE WITHIN THE UNITED STATES A CAPITALISTIC SYSTEM THAT DOES SUPPORT CHARITABLE ENTERPRISES ON A MASSIVE SCALE. AND THAT'S BECAUSE, WE DO HAVE TAX ADVANTAGES FOR THOSE WHO ARE GIVING, BOTH CORPORATELY AND PERSONALLY AND INDIVIDUALLY. SO, ALL OF THESE THINGS HAVE TO BE ACCOUNTED FOR. AND IS THE POPE BEING NUANCED AND SAYING, IN THIS COUNTRY, WE HAVE SWEAT SHOPS AND IN THIS COUNTRY THEY HAVE SWEAT SHOPS. AND IN THIS COUNTRY, WE HAVE MINIMUM WAGES AND THAT COUNTRY DOESN'T HAVE THAT. NO, HE'S NOT LOOKING AT IT FROM THAT POINT OF VIEW. WHAT HE'S TRYING TO DO IS, YOU KNOW, BRING TOGETHER, THINK, SOME KIND OF GENERAL NORM THAT LEADS TO ENVIRONMENTAL RESPONSIBILITY. THAT DOESN'T MEAN OFF THE RIDGE, IT JUST MEANS JUST LABOR LAW, MINIMUM WAGE, PRIVILEGES FOR IMMIGRANTS SO THEY ARE NOT JUST LEFT DESTITUTE TO BASICALLY AVOID THE NARRATIVES OF WHAT I CALL A CHARLES DICKENS NOVEL. WE'RE NOT IN AN INNOCENT WORLD AND THERE'S A LOT OF ABUSES THERE. AND HE DOES MAKE THOSE CRITIQUES. DOES HE MAKE THE CRITIQUES ACCORDING WHAT WE SAY WOULD BE A GOOD STANDARD FOR THE U.S. MAYBE IT'S NOT AS APPLICABLE HERE AS IT IS IN OTHER PLACES. BUT STILL I THINK WE NEED TO TAKE WHAT HE'S SAYING TO HEART. AND WE WANT TO BE, I'M NOT PROPOSING IN ANY WAY THAT WE BACK AWAY FROM A CAPITALISTIC SYSTEM. BUT I JUST THINK THAT'S THE FALL OF THE WORLD, YOU KNOW, IF WE DID ANYTHING THAT SILLY. AND I DON'T THINK HE'S SUGGESTING ANYTHING LIKE THAT. BUT I DO THINK THAT WHAT HE'S SUGGESTING IS TRYING TO GET US TO RECOGNIZE OUR RESPONSIBILITY BEFORE GOD. OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO OUR POOR NEIGHBOR AND TRYING TO TAKE THE RESPONSIBILITY SERIOUSLY, BOTH INDIVIDUALLY AND COLLECTIVELY. >> AND YOU MENTIONED THE WORD COMPARED TO, QUOTE, UNQUOTE. AND THAT WAS THE THING THAT STRUCK ME SOMETIMES IN YOUR WORK DEALING WITH YOUNG PEOPLE IN GENERAL ABOUT THE CHURCH, FAITH, AND EVERYTHING. THAT IS THIS TENDENCY TO COMPARE THE REALITY OF WHATEVER THEY HAVE A PROBLEM WITH, WITH SOME IDEALISTIC UTOPIAN CONCEPT. INSTEAD OF COMPARING IT TO WHAT OTHER PEOPLE ARE DOING. BECAUSE YOU ALWAYS ARE GOING TO FALL SHORT. YOU KNOW, WE ALL FALL SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD TO THE IDEAL SITUATION. AND THAT'S A FALSE COMPARISON THAT ALWAYS IS GOING TO LEAD ONE TO, OH, I JUST WANT US TO BE ALL WE CAN BE, WHATEVER THAT MEANS. >> UTOPIANISM AND IDEALISM IS THE WORST ENEMY OF AN ECONOMY, JUST, PRODUCTIVE AND GOOD FOR THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE. NOW, UTOPIAN PHILOSOPHIES AND IDEALISTIC PHILOSOPHIES WIND UP ALWAYS HAVING TERRIBLE EXAGGERATIONS IN THEM. WILL ALWAYS WIND UP FAVORING A PARTICULAR ELEMENT WHEREAS, THE DEVIL LIES IN THE DETAILS. IN ORDER TO REALISTICALLY WORK THINGS OUT, YOU REALLY HAVE TO LOOK AT THE REAL SITUATION IN WHICH YOU ARE IMMERSED. AND BASICALLY, IF YOU ARE GOING TO DO THAT, YOU HAVE TO BE VERY CONSCIENTIOUS OF THE DETAIL. LOOK AT, WE DON'T WANT MACROSCOPIC ECONOMIC ANALYSIS TO OVERRIDE THE MICROSCOPIC ECONOMIC ANALYSIS. AND WE DON'T WANT TO GO OVER TO SOME MICROSCOPIC ECONOMIC ANALYSIS WHICH BECOMES A BUREAUCRACY WHICH IS CRUSHING THE INDIVIDUAL INITIATIVE. IF YOU HAVE THAT, AND YOU LOSE INDIVIDUAL INITIATIVE, YOU LOSE PRODUCTIVITY. YOU LOSE PRODUCTIVITY, YOU LOSE MEANINGFUL EMPLOYMENT. I STUDIED ECONOMICS AND I CAN TELL YOU CONCLUSIVELY, THIS IS ALMOST A RECIPE FOR FAILURE. ECONOMICS. WE DON'T WANT A CRUSHING UTOPIAN MACROSCOPIC UTOPIAN ECONOMICS. WHAT KIND OF MACRO ECONOMIC MENTALITY DO WE WANT? WE WANT THE KIND THAT RESPECTS THE MICROECONOMIC ANALYSIS OF THE FIRM. AND WE WANT SOMETHING WHERE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE SUPPORTING OF THE AMOUNT OF CURRENCY THAT'S IN -- >> BY THE WAY WE GOT A LOT OF CURRENCY FLOATING AROUND THESE DAYS! >> THE PRINTING PRESSES ARE HEAVY AND WE GOT TO STOP THAT. WE WANT MACROSCOPIC ECONOMIC THAT SUPPORTS ON ONE HAND AND ON THE OTHER HAND, DOESN'T INFLATE THE ECONOMY. SO, MACROSCOPIC AND MACRO ECONOMIC ANALYSIS HAVE TO BE SYNTHESIZED VERY, VERY CAREFULLY. AND BY DOING THAT, I THINK THAT WE CAN PRETTY MUCH GET TO WHAT I WOULD CALL THAT JUGGLING THAT YOU NEED ON A VERY REALISTIC LEVEL. THE JUGGLING THAT GETS YOU THE BEST KIND OF SOLUTION THAT YOU CAN GET WITH THE WORLD AS IT PRESENTS ITSELF TO US. THERE ARE REAL PROBLEMS IN THIS WORLD. THERE ARE COMPLEXITIES IN THE WORLD AND CHALLENGES THAT WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH IN THE WORLD. THERE'S NOT EVER GOING TO BE A UTOPIAN OR IDEALISTIC PERFECT SOLUTION. ANYTHING LIKE THAT, ANY TIME YOU HEAR THAT KIND OF TALK OR, OH, I'VE GOT THE SOLUTION AND HERE IT IS! I'LL HERALD IT FROM THE YARDARM, GREAT UTOPIAN WHEN THE GOVERNMENT CONTROLS ALL OF THESE THINGS. NO, IT'S GOING TO LEAD TO THE EXACT OPPOSITE, LEADING TO OUR CRUSHING DOWNFALL. AND PEOPLE SAY, OH, GEE, DIDN'T WE DISCOVER THIS OVER THE LAST 250 YEARS? YEAH. AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN. >> BUT YOU HAVE TO KNOW HISTORY TO KNOW THAT WE DISCOVERED IT. AND THE OTHER QUESTION, AS WE MOVE INTO A BREAK. WERE YOU A BOARDWALK OR BALTIC -- >> I WAS DEFINITELY BOARDWALK AND PARK PLACE KIND OF GUY. >> OKAY. WE'LL CONTINUE WITH QUESTIONS RIGHT HERE ON "FR. SPITZER'S UNIVERSE" WHEN WE RETURN. THANKS. [MUSIC] [MUSIC] >> Doug: AND WE'RE CONTINUING HERE IN "FR. SPITZER'S UNIVERSE," OUR TOPIC IS FATHER'S NEW BOOK, AVAILABLE THROUGH ewtnRC.com. AS WE ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS, LET'S HIT SOME MORE QUESTIONS. NOW, SINCE WE'RE HONORING OUR LADY THIS WEEK. WE'VE GOT THIS QUESTION. DEAR FATHER SPITZER, OUR LADY HAS CRIED IN SOME OF HER APPARITIONS IN FRONT OF THE VISIONARIES WHILE GIVING WARNINGS FOR THE WORLD. HOW CAN SHE BOTH BE IN GLORY AND ETERNAL BLISS AND CRY AS A MOTHER FOR US AT THE SAME TIME? CAN IT BE THAT SHE WORRIES IN HEAVEN? DAVID. >> Father: WELL, NO DOUBT THAT HEAVEN IS FILLED WITH JOY. BUT ALSO, THERE CAN BE, AS IT WERE, THE PAIN OF PEOPLE THAT SHE CARES FOR AND LOVES. YES, THE ANSWER IS, MARY CAN DEFINITELY BE SADDENED, AND SADDENED FOR US. NOW, CAN YOU SAY THAT SHE'S SADDENED IN HER OWN INTERIOR BEING. THAT SOMEHOW IT COMPROMISES HER INTERIOR JOY IN WHAT I CALL HER SOUL AS A WHOLE, NO. I DON'T THINK THIS IS GOING TO TIP HER OVER INTO A DEPRESSION, IF I CAN BE SO CAVALIER AS TO SAY THAT. BUT I THINK WHAT'S HAPPENING, YES, SHE FEELS GENUINE EMPATHY, SYMPATHY, PEOPLE WHO ARE LOSING THEIR SOULS. AND I CAN TELL YOU, THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO I HAVE TALKED TO, WHO ARE CONFRONTED WITH A DREAM WHERE MARY WAS CRYING. AND IN THAT DREAM, THEY KNEW THAT SHE WAS CRYING FOR THEM. THOSE TEARS TURNED THEIR LIFE AROUND BECAUSE THEY KNEW THAT THOSE TEARS WERE GENUINE FOR THEM. SO, I GUESS I'M TRYING TO MAKE A FINE DISTINCTION ONCE AGAIN. AND THE DISTINCTION IS, IS THIS GOING TO TOPPLE THE JOY THAT BELONGS TO HER IN THE CERTAINTY THAT HER SON HAS, OF COURSE, CONQUERED EVIL AND CONQUERED THE WORLD? NO. IT'S NOT GOING TO TOPPLE THAT JOY AT ALL. THAT JOY IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE HERS AT EVERY MOMENT. HOWEVER, WE CAN FOCUS HER ATTENTION ON INDIVIDUAL HUMAN BEINGS AND SHE CAN CERTAINLY SYMPATHIZE WITH THE LOSS OF THEIR SOUL. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, THEY ARE FREE. AND OF COURSE, JUST LIKE, FOR EXAMPLE, OUR FREE ACTIONS CAN CAUSE OUR MOTHERS TO FEEL PAIN EVEN THOUGH OUR MOTHERS CAN ALSO EXPERIENCE THE JOY OF THE GLORY OF GOD. SO, ALSO, OUR FREEDOM CAN CAUSE OUR HEAVENLY MOTHER PAIN. AND IT DOES CAUSE PAIN AND DOES CAUSE GENUINE, I MEAN, THESE TERESA ARE NOT FAKE, THEY ARE FOR -- THESE TEARS ARE NOT FAKE, THEY ARE VERY REAL. AND THEY DO CAUSE PAIN. AND AS I SAID, THE TEARS OF MARY HAVE AWAKENED MORE PEOPLE FOR THE NEED TO REPENT THAN I CAN POSSIBLY IMAGINE. SO, THEY ARE VERY GENUINE INDEED. LIKE I SAID, HER INNER BEING, HER CONFIDENCE THAT CHRIST HAS CONQUERED EVIL, CHRIST HER SON, WILL BE -- NOT JUST WILL BE, HE IS THE KING OF GLORY, RIGHT AT THE PRESENT MOMENT. AND THAT GLORY, OF COURSE, IS SEALED IN HEAVEN FOR ALL OF US WHO DESIRE TO PARTICIPATE IN IT. AND THAT CONVICTION AND THAT JOY THAT SHE HAS IN THAT CONVICTION WILL NEVER GO AWAY. >> VERY GOOD. HERE'S ANOTHER QUESTION. DEAR FATHER SPITZER, WHAT DID MARY KNOW ABOUT JESUS AS SHE WAS RAISING THE SON OF GOD. SHE HAD THE MESSAGE OF THE ANGEL FROM THE ANNUNCIATION TELLING HER WHO JESUS WAS, AND AT THE WEDDING FEAST AT CANA, SHE TOLD THE WINE SERVERS TO DO WHATEVER HE TOLD THEM. YET SHE WAS WORRIED FOR THREE DAYS UNTIL SHE AND JOSEPH FOUND THE CHILD JESUS IN THE TEMPLE. WHY DIDN'T THEY KNOW HE WAS DOING HIS FATHER'S WORK? BARBARA >> Father: WELL, BARBARA, MARY, LIKE ALL OF US, YOU KNOW, DOESN'T QUITE YET HAVE, IN THE BIBLE, WHEN SHE IS STILL A HISTORICAL PERSON AND WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT MARY IN HER GLORY, SHE'S STILL A WOMAN WHO HAS NATURAL MATERNAL WORRIES AND SO FORTH. SHE CAN'T HELP HERSELF. AS MY MOTHER USED TO TELL ME, I WOULD SAY, MOM, DON'T WORRY. AND SHE WOULD SAY, IT'S A MOTHER'S JOB TO WORRY. AND I'M NOT JOKING. I THINK THAT IN A WAY MOTHERS LOVE SO DEEPLY, THEY CANNOT HELP IT. THEY DO WORRY ABOUT THINGS. DO I THINK THAT HER CONFIDENCE WAS SHAKEN IN GOD, NO. DO I THINK THAT SHE THOUGHT HER SON WAS GOING TO DIE IMMINENTLY, NO. DO I THINK THAT SHE THOUGHT THAT GOD, THOUGHT GOD WOULDN'T TAKE CARE OF HER SON, NO. I THINK SHE THOUGHT ALL OF THOSE THINGS. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, IT'S LIKE THAT THOUGHT OF, OKAY, LORD. I ENTRUST THIS TO YOU, I KNOW YOU ARE GOING TO TAKE CARE OF ALL OF THIS. I KNOW YOU ARE GOING TO TAKE CARE OF YOUR SON. I KNOW IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, YOU ARE SAYING, I'LL FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE WHEN HE'S BACK WITH ME. AND OF COURSE, THEY WERE WORRIED. SO, LIKE I SAY, IT'S A WORRY OUT OF LOVE. IT'S A WORRY OF TRYING TO BRING HER BOY BACK IN THE PROXIMITY OF HERSELF. DID SHE HAVE SOME INKLING FEELING THAT SHE WAS DOING THE WORK OF THE LORD, YES. DID SHE HAVE THAT, BUT SHE ASKS THE QUESTION, WHY HAVE YOU DONE THIS. AND SO, OF COURSE, MAYBE SHE DIDN'T KNOW. MAYBE SHE REALLY DIDN'T KNOW THAT HE WOULD GO TO THE TEMPLE AND TRY TO BE PRESENT TO THOSE PEOPLE. AND YOU KNOW, SHE'S A HUMAN BEING. SHE'S NOT DIVINE. SHE DOESN'T HAVE DIVINE FORE SITE, BUT SHE DOES HAVE THE MOST CONFIDENCE OF ANY HUMAN BEING IN GOD'S TAKING CARE OF HIS OWN SON, AND A CONFIDENCE OF OF COURSE, BORN OUT OF THE FACT IN THE ANNUNCIATION SHE KNOWS THAT SHE'S HAVING A TRULY BRINGING INTO THE WORLD, THE SON OF GOD HIMSELF. THAT SHE HAS CONFIDENCE IN AND THAT WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN SHAKEN IN HER. BUT LIKE MY MOTHER USED TO ALWAYS SAY, IT'S A MOTHER'S JOB TO WORRY. >> RIGHT. VERY GOOD. ANOTHER QUESTION AND THIS IS RELATING TO OUR LORD. DEAR FATHER SPITZER, IN PRAYING THE DIVINE MERCY NOVENA, WE PRAY FOR THE SINNERS CONSOLING CHRIST INTO THE BIT OF GRIEF THAT LOSS OF SOULS FALL INTO IT. IT IS DIFFICULT FOR ME TO FATHOM GOD AS GRIEVING OR SAD. PLEASE HELP ME UNDERSTAND OUR LORD'S GRIEF AND SADNESS. TONY THIS IS A LITTLE DIFFERENT THAN THE MARY, THE ONE FROM MARY. >> WELL, THE INTRINSIC JOYFULNESS OF THE LOVE OF THE TRINITY, IS THIS BEING DISTURBED BY, YOU KNOW, WHAT IS GOING ON IN THE WORLD OF PEOPLE WHO PERHAPS ARE TURNING AWAY FROM HIM AND LOSING THEIR SOULS TO THE EVIL SPIRIT IN THE PROCESS. THE ANSWER IS, THAT PARTICULAR KIND OF OVERWHELMING ONTOLOGICAL JOY, THE STATE OF HIS BEING IS NOT DISTURBED BY THAT FACT. HOWEVER, GOD HAS RELATIONSHIPS WITH US. SO, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU KNOW, WE CAN HAVE THAT IN THE MIDST OF AN OVERWHELMING ONTOLOGICAL JOYFUL DISPOSITION THAT COMES OUT OF THE LOVE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE TRINITY, CAN WE HAVE THESE PERTURBATIONS, IF I CAN USE QUANTUM MECHANICS, THAT TYPE OF GRIEF AND PAIN THAT RISES OUT OF SOMEBODY'S MISUSE OF FREEDOM. AND THE ANSWER TO ME IS, YES. I WOULD SAY THAT THERE'S NO QUESTION THAT GOD FEELS SADDENED IN WHAT I CALL THAT MOMENTARY SENSE BY SOMEBODY CHOOSING TO GO AWAY FROM HIM. CHOOSING THE PAIN OF ISOLATION, ALIENATION AND THE EVIL SPIRIT IN THE DOMAIN THAT'S A HORRIBLE DOMAIN INDEED. BUT THEY ARE CHOOSING IT. GOD DOESN'T HAVE TO SEND ANYONE TO HELL. WE CHOOSE IT. WE WILLINGLY GO ZOOMING RIGHT OVER THERE. RIGHT? AND WHAT'S OUR POINT. WE'RE SEDUCED BY EGOCENTRICITY. AND SEDUCED BY NARCISSISTIC URGES, SEDUCED BY NARCISSISTIC IDEOLOGY, BY GREED, BY THE EIGHT DEADLY SINS. YEAH, YEAH, WE THINK WE'RE GOING FOR OUR HAPPINESS. AND THE LORD IS DOING EVERYTHING HE CAN TO STOP US. OF COURSE, IF WE ULTIMATELY MAKE THAT DECISION, THE PERTURBATION OF THAT PAIN, AND THE HOLY SPIRIT AND THE TRIUNE LOVE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, YOU KNOW, THAT PERTURBATION OF THAT IS THERE, AND YEAH, GOD FEELS THAT WHEN WE DO THAT. AND DOES THIS DEFINITIVELY FEEL THAT, DOES IT PUT AN END TO HIS JOY? NO, IT DOESN'T PUT AN END TO HIS JOY. IT'S THE PERTURBATION OF OUR CHOICE, AND THAT PERTURBATION OF THAT PAIN DOES EFFECT HIM DOESN'T OVERWHELM THE TRUE JOY HE FEELS ONTOLOGICALLY AND THE LOVE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE TRIUNE PERSON BUT WITH US. >> IT'S BETTER THAN THINKING THAT OUR LORD IS OUT THERE, AND NOT CARING THAT WE'RE SUFFERING. >> RIGHT. OF COURSE. THE BIBLE IS WRIT LARGE WITH THOUSANDS OF EXPRESSIONS THAT HE CARES. HE CARES, HE CARES, ABSOLUTELY HE CARES ABOUT OUR SUFFERING. AND HE, THE LORD HEARS THE CRY OF THE POOR. HE WILL BRING ABOUT A STATE WHERE EVERY TEAR WILL BE WIPED AWAY, THE PRAYER IN THE BOOK OF REVELATION, EVERY TEAR WILL BE WIPED AWAY AND BROUGHT TO THE HEAVENLY BANQUET AND WHEN WE'RE BROUGHT THERE, ALL OF THAT SUFFERING, I'M CONVINCED THAT THE SUFFERING WHICH IS NOT BORN OUT OF EVIL BUT THE SUFFERING WHERE MAYBE WE HAVE BLINDNESS OR SOME GENETIC DISORDER. MAYBE WE GREW UP IN ECONOMIC HARDSHIP OR WHATEVER THE THING MAY BE THAT HAPPENS. ALL OF THAT SUFFERING, I'M CONVINCED WHEN WE GET TO HEAVEN, WE'RE GOING TO LOOK BACK AND SAY, OH, THANK GOODNESS FOR THAT SURGE SUFFERING. THAT SUFFERING IS WHAT DETACHED ME FROM NARCISSISM, EGOCENTRICITY, AUTO DETACHED ME FROM AN OBSESSION WITH SENSUALITY, GREED, OR WHATEVER IT MAY BE. THAT SUFFERING REALLY HAS BEEN EXCEEDINGLY IMPORTANT TO GET ME TO ETERNAL JOY THROUGH ETERNAL LOVE. NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT IN MY MIND. I KNOW I'M JUST GOING TO LOOK BACK AND SAY, THANK GOD FOR THE BLINDNESS, LORD. SORRY THAT I HAD ALL OF THOSE TIMES AND SAID, OH, WHY, WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS TO ME. AND GOD CARES. HE CERTAINLY CARES. HE HATES TO HEAR, AS IT WERE -- I DON'T MEAN HATE AS IN THE REAL SENSE -- BUT WHEN I AM SITTING THERE AND SUFFERING AND GROANING, BUMPING INTO WALLS AND DOING STUPID THINGS, OF COURSE, HE FEELS MY PAIN. OF COURSE HE DOES. BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, HE'S ALREADY USING MY PAIN TO TURN IT INTO SALVATION IF I BUT HELP HIM. SO, REMEMBER THIS FORMULA. SUFFERING PLUS FAITH LEADS TO SALVATION. BUT YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE FAITH TO TRANSFORM THE SUFFERING INTO LOVE AND SALVATION. THAT'S WHAT HE'S ASKING OF US. SO, THAT FAITH THAT WE'RE CULTIVATING, THAT FAITH THAT COMES THROUGH PRAYER. THAT FAITH OF HANGING ON. THAT FAITH OF USING ALL OF THE RESOURCES THAT HE SENDS US. HE SENDS US PEOPLE TO HELP US. HE SENDS HIS PEOPLE TO, IN MY CASE, TO READ TO ME OR TO DRIVE ME. HE SENDS RESOURCES TO HELP ME TO GET BOOKS WRITTEN AND DO ALL KINDS OF THINGS. BUT WE JUST HAVE TO, WHEN WE GET THOSE THINGS THAT HE SENDS US, WE JUST USE THEM TO OUR BEST ADVANTAGE. AND IF WE DON'T GET THOSE THINGS, WE CAN STILL GET THE REAL OPPORTUNITY OF SUFFERING. AND THE REAL OPPORTUNITY OF SUFFERING IS DETACHMENT FROM SENSUALITY, EGOCENTRICITY, SELF IDOLATRY, DOMINATION, AND THE EIGHT DEADLY SINS. IF WE CAN DETACH FROM THOSE EVEN A LITTLE BIT, IT LEADS HUGELY TO OUR SALVATION. AND ETERNITY MAKES THIS LIFETIME LOOK LESS THAN A BLIP ON THE RADAR SCREEN. >> VERY GOOD. WE HAVE 10 MINUTES OR SO. AND LET'S GET INTO THE TOPIC ON CHRIST VERSUS SATAN IN OUR DAILY LIVES JUST TO TOUCH THE BASE AND MOVE ON QUESTION HERE. NOW, YOU MENTIONED SPIRITUAL CONVERSION, TALKING ABOUT LONERGAN FREQUENTLY CALLS RELIGIOUS CONVERSION. AND WHAT STRUCK ME, SOMEBODY ON TELEVISION, PERCEIVED AS RELIGIOUS AND SHE SAID SHE'S NOT RELIGIOUS AT ALL. SHE'S VERY SPIRITUAL. SO, WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE? HERE YOU SAID IT AS THE SAME THING BUT I THINK THAT SOCIETY TENDS LOOK AT IT AS TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. >> NO QUESTION ABOUT IT, HE I THINK WHEN LONERGAN WAS LOOKING AT IT, THE SPLIT WAS WAS A LITTLE DIFFERENT AND NEW AGE AND SPIRITUALITY KIND OF GOT RIPPED OFF OF RELIGION ALL TOGETHER. SO, SORT OF THE POO-POOING OF RELIGION, SPIRITUALITY WITHOUT RELIGION, THINK THAT LONERGAN ASSUMED THAT IT WAS MORAL CONVERSION BECAUSE IT DEALS WITH THE RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD. BUT LET'S SAY, IF YOU TRY TO TAKE SPIRITUALITY AWAY FROM RELIGION. REMEMBER, RELIGION GUIDES YOUR THOUGHTS. AND DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT YOU CAN BE SITTING THERE IN PRAYER ALL BY YOURSELF IN YOUR ROOM. AND YOU DON'T REALLY KNOW WHO GOD IS. LET'S FACE IT, FOR THE THOUSANDS OF MILLENIA AND PEOPLE THOUGHT, GOSH, THERE WERE THESE GOD'S AND THE GOD'S TREATED US LIKE CANON FODDER AND FOR ALL INTENSIVE PURPOSES, GOD DIDN'T CARE ABOUT A WIT ABOUT US, USING US LIKE CHESS PIECES ON THE BOARD. AND YOU SAY, OH, MY GOSH, ALL OF THE ERRANT NOTIONS OF GOD THAT HUMANITY HAS COME UP WITH. YOU THINK YOU ARE GOING TO SIT THERE ON YOUR BED AND REINVENT OR KNOW WHO GOD TRULY IS, WITHOUT ANY HELP FROM GOD HIMSELF. HOW DOES GOD REVEAL HIMSELF? HE REVEALS HIMSELF PUBLICLY AND YES, OF COURSE, HE REVEALS HIMSELF INTERIORLY THROUGH THE NUMINISTIC EXPERIENCE. AND IT'S WHAT I TALK ABOUT IN CHAPTERS 1 AND 2 IN MY BOOK, THE SOUL'S UPWARD YEARNING. YOU CAN READ ABOUT IT. BUT WHEN WE GET A PUBLIC REVELATION, IT'S A DISCURSIVE. THAT MEANS, HE SAYS IT IN WORDS. THIS IS WHO I AM. AND WHAT CAN WE KNOW FROM REASON. WE CAN KNOW FROM SCIENCE, WE CAN KNOW FROM LOGIC, REASON, AND WE CAN KNOW THAT GOD EXISTS. THAT HE'S, I THINK THAT WE CAN PROVE VERY CONCLUSIVELY THAT HE EXISTS, THAT HE'S AN UNCONDITIONAL AND UNRESTRICTED REALITY, THAT HE MUST BE ABSOLUTELY UNIQUE IF HE'S UNRESTRICTIVE AND UNIQUE, AND A CREATOR OF EVERYTHING THAT IS NOT HIMSELF. ALL OF THESE THINGS WE CAN PROVE. WE SHOW SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE FOR CREATION OF THE UNIVERSE, SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE THAT WE CAN HAVE FOR THE EXISTENCE OF A SOUL THAT SURVIVES BODILY DEATH, ET CETERA, ET CETERA. WE CAN DO A LOT WITH REASON. WHAT CAN'T WE KNOW? WE MAY KNOW WHO GOD IS, BUT IN THE SENSE OF, HE'S NOT RESTRICTIVE, ABSOLUTELY UNIQUE, NOT MULTIPLE. BUT ON THE ON THE OTHER HAND, WHO IS GOD? IS HE LOVING? NOT LOVING? DOES HE REDEEM US FROM OUR SINS? OR JUST HE CONDEMNS US BECAUSE OF OUR SIN? DOES HE TREAT US LIKE ARISTOTLE'S GOD? YOU ARE A BIG BORING NOTHING, I'M WALKING AWAY FROM YOU. I'M AN UNRESTRICTED INTELLECT, WHAT DO I CARE ABOUT YOU. OR IS HE THE GOD THAT SAYS I LOVE YOU SO ABSOLUTELY DEARLY, I WANT TO BRING YOU TO MYSELF AND GIVE YOU ALL OF MY LOVE. WHICH GOD IS IT? YOU THINK YOU ARE GOING TO FIGURE IT OUT IN YOUR ROOM? YOU THINK YOU ARE GOING TO DO THIS WITH A SPIRIT ALL THE THAT HAS NO CHAIN TO A SET OF DOCTRINES. SPIRITUALITY WITHOUT RELIGION IS LAME! WE DON'T EVEN KNOW IF GOD REDEEMS SUFFERING. WE DON'T EVEN KNOW IF GOD ANSWERS PRAYERS. WE DON'T KNOW IF GOD IS INSPIRING US, PROTECTING US, HELPING US. WE DON'T KNOW ANYTHING. SPIRITUALITY ALL BY MYSELF IN MY ROOM WITHOUT A PUBLICLY DECLARED RELIGIOUS DOCK TINE, COMMUNITY, OR WHICH GOD REVEALS HIM SELVES. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? SPIRITUALITY WITHOUT RELIGION IS TOTALLY LAME AND SUCH A FALSE DOCTRINE. OH, NEW AGE, WE CAN HAVE RELIGION WOULD YOU TELL A DOCTRINE. NO, NO, YOU CAN'T. I AM FREE. I AM GOING SOMEWHERE. AND I DON'T HAVE ANY GOALS OR OBJECTIVES. ALL ROADS GET YOU THERE. SO, LET'S JUST CUT THE BALONEY HERE. THERE'S ABSOLUTELY NO WAY THAT YOU CAN HAVE A SPIRITUALITY WITHOUT RELIGION. THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT LONERGAN HAD IN MIND. YOU NEED PROPER RELIGIOUS DOCTRINE. AND NOT ALL DOCTRINES ARE THE SAME. I'LL SAY THIS CLEARLY, THE UNCONDITIONAL LOVE OF GOD, AND THE DEFINITION OF LOVE THAT JESUS REVEALED, IT'S CONTAINED IN THE BEATITUDES. WE WANT TO BE THE POOR IN SPIRIT. THAT IS TO SAY, HUMBLE-HEARTED. MEEK, GENTLE-HEARTED. AND WE WANT TO BE THE PEOPLE THAT HUNGER AND THIRST FOR HOLINESS AND RIGHTEOUSNESS. WE WANT TO BE MERCIFUL. BUT GOD IS ALL OF THESE THINGS. THAT IS WHAT LOVE IS. GOD IS CONSUMMATELY ASKING US WHAT HE IS, IN THE LOVE THAT HE DEFINES THROUGH THE BEATITUDES. AND THE DEFINITION OF THE LOVE THAT JESUS COMES TO BRING. IT'S THE IDEA THAT GOD THE FATHER IS UNCONDITIONAL LOVE, THAT WE GET IN THE PRODIGAL SON PARABLE. THIS IS THE HIGHEST FORM OF REVELATION THAT YOU ARE GOING TO GET. IT'S NOT JUST THAT. WE HAVE TO KNOW THE DYNAMICS OF FREEDOM AND HAVE TO KNOW WHAT UNLOVE IS AT THE SAME TIME. WE NEED A MORAL DOCTRINE AT THE SAME TIME. JESUS GIVES US THE WHOLE PACKAGE. HE GIVES US EVERYTHING. AND THE INTERPRETATION OF THE CHURCH -- REMEMBER, THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS THE CHURCH THAT HE STARTED. WE ACTUALLY NEED THAT INTERPRETATION BECAUSE SCRIPTURE IS NOT UTTERLY TRANSPARENT. YOU KNOW, YOU GIVE A FEW YEARS AND YOU ARE GOING TO GET A THOUSAND CHURCHES. IF YOU DON'T HAVE A MAGISTERIUM OR DON'T HAVE AN OFFICIAL ORGAN TO TRANSLATE THE DOCTRINES OF JESUS NOT ONLY FOR THE CONTEMPORARY TIME BUT TO SORT OUT THE POTENTIAL CONTRIBUTIONS BETWEEN ONE PASSAGE TO PEOPLE OVER ANOTHER. AND ALL OF THESE THINGS NEED TO BE MITIGATED BY A RELIGIOUS SPIRITUAL SOURCE, THE ONE DESIGNATED BY JESUS HIMSELF. YOU ARE PETER, UPON THIS ROCK, I BUILD MY CHURCH AND THE GATES OF THE NETHER WORLD WILL NEVER PREVAIL AGAINST IT. GIVE YOU THE KEYS TO THE KINGDOM. THAT'S AN OFFICE. HE'S STARTING AN OFFICE OF PRIME MINISTER. THAT'S WHAT IT IS. I'LL GIVE YOU THE KEYS TO THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. WHATEVER YOU DECLARE BOUND IN HEAVEN IS BOUND ON EARTH AND LOSE HAD IN HEAVEN IS LOOSED ON THE EARTH. AND THIS IS THE COMMISSION OF PETER. TAKE IT ABSOLUTELY LITERALLY. THAT OFFICE WAS NOT JUST CREATED FOR PETER. THAT'S THE SILLIEST INTERPRETATION EVER. YEAH, JESUS CREATED THE OFFICE OF PRIME MINISTER JUST TO GIVE TO ONE PERSON BECAUSE HE COULDN'T FORESEE THE CHURCH WOULDN'T LAST BEYOND PETER. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? LET'S GET REAL. AND NOW, IT WAS NAMED FOR PETER AND HIS SUCCESSORS. WHAT DO YOU GET WHEN YOU PUT ALL OF THAT TOGETHER? BASICALLY, YOU GET, NOT ONLY DO WE NEED A RELIGION, BUT A DOCTRINE GROUNDED IN THE HIGHEST MORAL ESTIMATION THAT'S EVER BEEN GIVEN. THAT'S THE DEFINITION OF LOVE GIVEN BY JESUS, THE UNCONDITIONAL LOVE OF THE FATHER AND IT HAS TO BE INTERPRETED BY A MORAL DOCTRINE. WHAT UNLOVE IS. WE HAVE TO KNOW WHAT IS NOT COVENANT LOVE, WHAT ISN'T LOVE THAT IS -- THERE'S LOTS OF ILLUSIONS OF LOVE. I WAS IN A DEBATE WITH A UNITARIAN MINISTER AND WE WERE TALKING ABOUT ASSISTED SUICIDE. DURING THE DEBATE, HE LOOKED AT ME AND HE SAID, WELL, BOB, YOU AND I BOTH AGREE ON THIS. AND I SAID, WHAT'S THAT, RALPH. HE SAID, OH, WE BOTH KNOW THAT WHAT IS NEEDED IS LOVE. AND I SAID, YES, RALPH, BUT IT DEPENDS ON WHAT YOU MEAN BY LOVE. THAT'S THE QUESTION. THERE'S LOTS OF ILLUSIONS OF LOVE. WE NEED A CHURCH TO GET US OUT OF THE ILLUSIONS AND INTO THE REALITY OF WHAT TRUE COVENANT LOVE OF WHAT JESUS INTENDED IT THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT. AND THAT CHURCH IS THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. I'M JUST SAYING RELIGIOUS CONVERSION, SPIRITUAL CONVERSION, THEY GO TOGETHER. THE RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD, INTERIORLY, SPIRITUALLY, THE RELIGION THAT GIVES US DOCTRINE, GUYS US, PROTECTS US AND INSPIRES US. THEY NEED TO GO TOGETHER BECAUSE WITHOUT EACH OF THOSE COMPONENTS BASICALLY, WE ARE WANDERING IN THE DESERT ALL BY OURSELVES. AND SPEAKING FOR MYSELF, I'M SO PHENOMENALLY IGNORANT I COULDN'T POSSIBLY MAKE IT TWO FEET LET ALONE OUT OF THE DESERT WITHOUT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND JESUS CHRIST WHO STARTED IT. >> Doug: WELL, I THINK ALL OF US HERE WATCHING IT BELIEVE THAT. AND WE ONLY HAVE A MINUTE TO GO. BUT WHY IS IT THAT WE HEAR FROM THE SWISS CHURCH, GERMAN CHURCH AND NUMBER OF CHURCHES THAT THE NUMBERS ARE DROPPING. >> YEAH, THE NUMBERS ARE DROPPING BECAUSE IN MY VIEW, PEOPLE ARE DRINKING THE KOOL-AID. THAT'S A TERRIBLE KOOL-AID INDEED. THEY ACTUALLY BELIEVE THAT HONESTLY, I HAVE A BIG THEORY THAT I TALK ABOUT IT IN THE BOOK, CHRIST VERSUS SATAN IN OUR DAILY LIVES. I TALK ABOUT IT IN DAILY LIFE TALKING ABOUT THE PREPARATION OF THE DEVIL'S CULTURE, SEXUAL REVOLUTION, FREEDOM AUTONOMY REVOLUTION, WHAT I CALL THE ATHEISM REVOLUTION, GROUNDED THE FALSE FACT THAT SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY -- MAJORITY OF THE SCIENTISTS ARE THEISTS, LET'S FACE FACTS, EVERYBODY. THE KOOL-AID HAS BEEN PUT OUT THERE. AND WHAT'S THE KOOL-AID GOTTEN US? A 56% RISE IN SUICIDES, A 63% RISE IN ANXIETY AND DEPRESSION AMONGST YOUNG PEOPLE, 22% RISE IN HOMICIDES AMONGST YOUNG PEOPLE. GREAT. THIS IS ALL HAS HAPPENED BETWEEN 2005 AND 2017, IN A 12 YEAR PERIOD. WE'VE MANAGED TO GET OURSELVES ALMOST INTO -- AND WE WILL -- IN A FEW YEARS OF DOUBLING OF SUICIDES, ANXIETY, DEPRESSION, SUBSTANCE ABUSE AND HOMICIDES. GREAT. GREAT. WHAT A CULTURE! THEY HAVE SOLD US THAT. AND LET'S GO BACK TO CHRIST JESUS. >> Doug: UNFORTUNATELY, FATHER, WE HAVE TO LEAVE IT THERE. BUT WE ASK FOR YOUR BLESSING AND. >> GO BACK TO JESUS CHRIST, FIRST THING. AND BOW YOUR HEAD AND PRAY TO GOD FOR GOD'S BLESSING. MAY THE LORD OF ALL WISDOM, OF ALL KNOWLEDGE, OF ALL PROVIDENCE, OF ALL CONSOLATION AND OF ALL LOVE INSPIRE YOU THROUGH THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND INSPIRE YOU TO A CONFIDENCE AND TO A LOYALTY OF THE TEACHING OF JESUS GIVEN TO THAT CHURCH SO YOU MAY BE GUIDED, GUIDED INTO THE FULLNESS OF LIFE, LOVE, THROUGH HIM. AND AN ETERNITY IN SALVATION AND JOY. IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, AND OF THE SON, AND OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. AMEN. >> Doug: VERY GOOD, FATHER SPITZER. WE'LL SEE YOU AGAIN. AND NEXT WEEK, WE'RE GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT, AGAIN, OF COURSE, THE GIFT OF THE MAGI AND NOT THE HENRY STORY BUT ESPECIALLY ON THE THREE KINGS. WE HAVE A BOOKMARK COMING UP TOIL AND TRANSCENDENCE, FATHER CONNOR, A REGULAR HERE. AND WE HAVE HOLY MASS FROM THE NATIONAL SHRINE, MASS OF OUR LADY OF GUADALUPE SATURDAY DECEMBER 12, 1:15 PHILOSOPHY EASTERN TIME. CHECK THAT OUT. WE HAVE GREAT PROGRAMMING AND THANKS TO THE GREAT TEAM RIGHT HERE AT EWTN. STAY WITH US, WE'LL SEE YOU RIGHT HERE AT THE INTERSECTION OF FAITH AND REASON AS ADVENT MARCHES ON. [MUSIC]
