♪ >> Doug: HELLO AND WELCOME ONCE AGAIN TO "FR. SPITZER'S UNIVERSE" WHERE NO MAN HAS GONE BEFORE. I'M DOUG KECK COMING TO YOU LIVE FROM THE EWTN STUDIOS IN IRONDALE, ALABAMA, WHERE IT ALL BEGAN, MOTHERSHIP WHERE MOTHER ANGELICA STARTED IT BACK IN 1981. WE'RE NOW GLOBAL, WORLD-WIDE, 250 MILLION PLUS HOMES. SEND US AN EMAIL. CHECK US OUT ON FACEBOOK. SEND US A TWEET ON TWITTER AND THAT'S THE MAGIS CENTER WEB SITE, magiscenter.com. AND TODAY'S TOPIC, WE'RE GETTING TO THE CONCLUSION OF THE "THE LIGHT SHINES ON IN THE DARKNESS". WE'RE GOING TO SEE HOW FATHER DOES IN WRAPPING THINGS UP FOR US. SPEAKING OF BOOKS, WE HAVE A BOOK OUT BY OUR FRIEND, FATHER CHARLES CONNOR, PIONEER PRIEST, IF YOU KNOW FATHER CONNORS' NAME, HE'S GREAT COMING ACROSS EXPLAINING HISTORY. IF YOU READ IT, YOU THINK HE'S LIVED IT! NOW, JOURNEY'S THROUGH TIME AND SPACE, THIS IS A GREAT FAMILY GAME. WE'RE JUST TELLING YOU, GO TO THE WEB SITE, ON THERE ROAD TO BETHLEHEM, NUMBER TWO, BETHLEHEM.COM. AND IT'S A WONDERFUL WAY TO SPEND TIME WITH YOUR FAMILY, LEARNING ABOUT THE FAITH, AND SPEAKING ABOUT THE FAITH. FATHER SPITZER IS ALWAYS TEACHING. THE DVD COLLECTIONS ARE ALL AVAILABLE THROUGH EWTN CATALOGUE. AND VIRTUE, FREEDOM, AND FAITH. FATHER SPITZER AND SOME OF THE YOUTHFUL DAYS HERE WHEN HE WAS DOING THE SERIES AT EWTN. SPEAKING TO HIM, LET'S TURN TO THE WEST COAST IN ORANGE COUNTY, CALIFORNIA, WHERE WE SEE THE ONE AND ONLY FATHER SPITZER AS HE APPEARS TODAY. OH, YOU LOOK EXACTLY THE SAME! YOU EVEN LOOK YOUNGER. >> OH, BOY, YOU REMEMBER CONFESSION. >> UNFORTUNATELY, YOU WERE NOT WILLING TO HEAR IT OVER THE PHONE. AND I HAD TO GO TO FATHER JOSEPH ONCE AGAIN. HE'S A TOUGH TASK MASTER, I HAVE TO TELL YOU. OF COURSE, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT YOUR BOOK AND CONCLUSION OF THAT. BEFORE WE GET INTO THAT, WHY DON'T YOU START OFF WITH A PRAYER COMING OUT OF THANKSGIVING WEEK AS WE HEAD INTO ADVENT. >> ABSOLUTELY. IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, SON, AND HOLY SPIRIT. AMEN. HEAVENLY FATHER, WE ASK YOU TO SPEND YOUR HOLY SPIRIT DOWN UPON US SO THAT ALL IN OUR AUDIENCE MAY DEEPEN THEIR AWARENESS FOR THEIR LOVE OF YOU, PARTICULARLY IN TIMES OF SUFFERING. THE PATH YOU PREPARED FOR THEM, FROM SUFFERING INTO THE PURIFICATION OF LOVE AND FAITH. AND EVEN INTO YOUR VERY KINGDOM, YOUR VERY SALVATION. WE ASK THAT THAT WISDOM, THAT WE OBTAIN MAY BE SHARED WITH OTHERS SO THAT WE MIGHT FORM A COMMUNITY OF LOVE AND THE SUFFERING AND THE FAITH IN OUR LIVES. WE ASK ALL OF THESE THINGS THROUGH JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD. AMEN. MARY, SEAT OF WISDOM, PRAY FOR US. IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, SON, AND OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. >> WELL, HERE, LET'S KICK OFF THE SHOW WITH A QUESTION. DEAR FATHER SPITZER, MY WHOLE FAMILY LOVES "FR. SPITZER'S UNIVERSE." HOWEVER, IT SEEMS THAT HE IS ONLY ON AT ONE TIME, ONE WEEK. ANOTHER TIME DURING THE NEXT WEEK AND AT TIMES, TWICE IN A WEEK. OUR KIDS LIKE A TIME WHEN THEY CAN LISTEN TO HIM BEFORE LATE NIGHT. CAN'T HIS PROGRAM BE SCHEDULED IN A PERMANENT PLACE. AND I CAN, LET ME TAKE THIS QUESTION! I CAN CLARIFY THE SHOW IS ON NORMALLY EVERY WEEK, AT THE SAME TIME. I'M GOING TO PUT IT UP IN YOUR SCREEN. "FR. SPITZER'S UNIVERSE", FOR THE UNITED STATES AND CANADA, WEDNESDAY AT 2:00 PM EASTERN TIME. AND WEDNESDAY, 10:00 PM, WATCH THE REPLAY ON THE SHOW RIGHT NOW. AND SATURDAY, ANOTHER TIME, AIRING ON TELEVISION AND ON RADIO, FRIDAY 8:00 PM, LISTEN TO US ON RADIO AND SUNDAY, REPEATED AS WELL ON 12:00 PM EASTERN. WE'RE ON DEMAND AS WELL. GO TO OUR ON DEMAND WEB SITE,ewtn.com/ondemand FOR A SITE WITH OVER 12,000 VIDEOS, INCLUDING IN THOSE IS FATHER SPITZER'S VIDEOS AND SHOWS. SO, WATCH US ONLINE EVERY WHICH WAY YOU CAN. WE WANT TO GET OUT THE TRUTH AND THE WONDERFUL TEACHINGS AS DISPLAYED BY FATHER SPITZER ON THIS PROGRAM. HOPEFULLY, YOU ARE GOING TO FIND FATHER SPITZER WHERE YOU WANT TO FIND HIM ON EWTN TELEVISION. UP NEXT, HERE'S THE REAL QUESTION FOR YOU. DEAR FATHER SPITZER, I PRAYED FOR AN ANSWER TO THE GRIEF AND LATER HAD A DREAM WHICH I TOOK TO BE FROM GOD. FEW NIGHTS LATER, I PRAYED AND HAD A TERRIBLE DREAM ON THE SAME SUBJECT THAT IF GOD EXISTS, HE IS CRUEL. CAN SATAN INFLUENCE AND ENTER YOUR DREAMS. THIS IS THANKS FROM MARY. >> Father: HI, MARY. YOU HAVE THE RIGHT ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION EXCEPT FOR THE FIRST PART. GOD VERY MUCH DOES EXIST AND YOU DON'T WANT TO CONCLUDE, A BAD DREAM NECESSARILY CAME FROM GOD. AND THE SECOND PART OF YOUR ANSWER THERE, YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. SATAN CAN ABSOLUTELY ENTER INTO YOUR DREAMS AND NOT ONLY THAT, YOU HAVE A SUBCONSCIOUS MIND YOURSELF. AND THAT SUBCONSCIOUS MIND CAN ALSO ENTER YOUR DREAM WORLD AND HAS A BAD ASSOCIATION WITH IT. THE SUBCONSCIOUS MIND IS AN ASSOCIATIVE MIND. SO, IF YOU RANDOMLY ASSOCIATE A CERTAIN EVENT WITH SOMETHING BAD IN YOUR LIFE OR SOMETHING OF THAT NATURE, YOUR OWN MIND COULD BRING IN THAT VERY BAD DATA OR COULD BRING IN A BAD IMAGE OR HAVE A VERY CRUEL OUTCOME. AND OF COURSE, YES, SATAN, ABSOLUTELY CAN INFLUENCE YOUR DREAM WORLD. NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT. AND OF COURSE, THE SAINTS HAVE SPOKEN ABOUT THAT IN MANY DIFFERENT CONTEXTS. SO, YOU REALLY DO HAVE TO BE CAREFUL ABOUT DREAMS AND INTERPRETING DREAMS. SOMETIMES YOU MAY THINK, OH, IF I HAD A GOOD DREAM, IT'S FROM GOD. AND ST. IGNATIUS SAYS, WELL, THAT'S ENTIRELY POSSIBLE, A VERY GOOD DREAM, CONSOLING DREAM FREQUENTLY COMES FROM THE HOLY SPIRIT, COMES FROM GOD. BUT ALSO, AGAIN, IT CAN COME FROM YOUR SUBCONSCIOUS MIND. SO, NO PROBLEM THERE. ABSOLUTELY, YOU COULD HAVE A BAD DREAM THAT DOESN'T COME FROM GOD AT ALL. MOST OF THE TIME, BAD DREAMS, THEY COME FROM OUR OWN SUBCONSCIOUS MIND OR FROM THE EVIL ONE WHO OF COURSE WANTS ANY FORM OF PROGRESS YOU HAVE MADE, ANY FORM OF PROGRESS YOU ARE DEVELOPING IN GOD TO BE SHATTERED. DON'T LET HIM PULL IT OFF. AND PULL IT OFF FROM YOUR OWN SUBCONSCIOUS MIND. WISE AND ASTUTE HOW YOU PURCHASE THE DREAMS, PARTICULARLY THE BAD ONES. THINK YOU REALLY KNOW THE ANSWER PRETTY MUCH ALREADY. GREAT QUESTION, MARY. >> Doug: ALL RIGHT. GREAT. LET ME ASK YOU, IN DEALING WITH THINGS LIKE THAT. DO MOST OF THE TIMES, PEOPLE DEALING WITH FEARS, HOPES OR DOES IT DEPEND ON THE PERSON, ANY SCIENTIFIC SENSE OF THAT. >> Father: DREAMS ARE HIGHLY ASSOCIATIVE. AND IT DEPENDS ON WHETHER A PARTICULAR IMAGE THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE SEEN DURING THE DAY, FOR EXAMPLE. WELL, YOU ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT IMAGE INTO YOUR DREAM WORLD AT NIGHT. IT'S ALMOST INEVITABLE. YOU MAY HAVE HEARD SOMETHING DURING THE DAY FROM SOMEBODY. IF YOU ASSOCIATE THAT WITH A PAST EVENT MAYBE, OR MAYBE A PAST MEMORY THAT HAS A FEAR INTRINSIC TO IT. YOU PROBABLY WILL HAVE A FEARFUL DREAM. AND IF YOU ASSOCIATE IT WITH A MEMORY OF SOMETHING THAT WAS VERY GOOD, VERY CONSOLING, YOU ARE LIKELY TO HAVE A VERY GOOD DREAM, VERY TROUBLED AT NIGHT, FREQUENTLY, YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE, RIGHT, THE FEELINGS THEMSELVES WILL BRING ON BAD ASSOCIATIONS AND BAD MEMORIES FROM YOUR SUBCONSCIOUS MIND WITHOUT ANY SUGGESTION FROM THE DEVIL. YOU CAN CONJURE UP THEN A PERFECTLY HORRIBLE DREAM, JUST ON YOUR OWN, BECAUSE OF YOUR PAST ASSOCIATIONS WITH SOMETHING. OR BECAUSE OF THE FEELINGS THAT YOU WENT TO SLEEP. OF COURSE, CAN THE DEVIL PLAY ON THAT ADDITIONALLY. I MEAN, HE CAN ABSOLUTELY WREAK HAVOC ON ANYBODY, ESPECIALLY IF YOU HAVE STARTED OFF IN A TROUBLE, TROUBLED STATE. YOU KNOW, MORE THAN HAPPY TO HELP YOU WITH DESOLATION TO SEPARATE YOU FROM GOD AND PUT YOU IN DARKNESS. IT COULD EITHER WAY BE DONE. >> SO, LET ME ASK YOU THIS, MAY BE EVEN A QUESTION THAT WE HAD FROM A PAST SHOW OR FUTURE SHOW. AND A LOT OF US TRY TO THINK ABOUT, DOES THE TEMPTER, DEMON OR WHATEVER, CAN THEY READ YOUR THOUGHTS OR GO INTO YOUR DREAMS? WHAT ARE THEIR LIMITATIONS? >> Father: OH, NO, A TEMPTER CAN DEFINITELY KNOW WHAT YOU ARE THINKING. THERE'S NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT. AND THAT'S WHAT ENABLES THE EVIL SPIRIT TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT YOU ARE FREE OR WHETHER YOU ARE, AS IT WERE, BITING FOR HIS SUGGESTION AND TO SORT OF ENHANCE THE TEMPTATION. ALTERNATIVELY, OF COURSE, THE HOLY SPIRIT CAN ALSO KNOW WHAT YOU ARE THINKING, CAN KNOW WHEN YOU ARE FREE AND SO FORTH. SO, HE CAN ALSO REINFORCE HIS VIEWPOINT AND BLOCK EVEN THE DEVIL'S VIEWPOINT. MANY ARE THE TIMES WHEN I THINK I AM BEING SUBJECTED TO TEMPTATION JUST IN MY IMAGINATION, AND ALSO WHATEVER APPLIES TO THE IMAGINATION CAN APPLY TO THE DREAM WORLD. BUT I'M BEING SUBJECTED TO TEMPTATION IN MY IMAGINATION OR IN MY DREAMS. AND I CAN SEE IN MY IMAGINATION, I'M ACTIVELY IN MY FREE WILL, RIGHT. SO, AT THAT JUNCTURE, I CAN DEFINITELY PRAY TO ST. MICHAEL THE ARCHANGEL FOR PROTECTION, PRAY TO MARY OR TO THE LORD FOR PROTECTION. AND OF COURSE, I AM PROTECTED. I GET ALMOST AN IMMEDIATE RESPONSE. NOT JUST A CALMING OF THE TEMPTATION, BUT KIND OF THE PART OF THE TEMPTATION THAT I JUST FEEL LIKE I'M BEING OVERWHELMED BY THEM. THAT PRAYER TO ST. MICHAEL, IT WORKS FOR ME, AND SO DOES THE PRAYER TO OUR LORD. BUT ALSO, IN DREAM WORLD, YOU ARE NOT FREE. YOU ARE KIND OF, EVEN THOUGH YOUR CONSCIOUSNESS OR SUBCONSCIOUS IS INTERACTING WITH THE DREAM WORLD, YOUR CONSCIOUS AWARENESS IS INTERACTING WITH THE DREAM WORLD, IT'S NOT DOING IT ON A COMPLETELY VOLUNTARY BASIS. YOU ARE SUBJECT TO THE LAWS OF YOUR DREAMS AND TO THE CONDITIONS OF YOUR DREAMS. SO, YOU KNOW, NORMALLY, THE REASON THAT THE EVIL ONE OR THE HOLY SPIRIT IS INVOLVED IN DREAMS IS, THE EVIL ONE IS INVOLVED IN DREAMS BECAUSE HE WANTS YOU TO WAKE UP IN A TROUBLED STATE, LIKE, MARY DID. BUT ALSO, THE HOLY SPIRIT GETS INVOLVED IN DREAMS BECAUSE HE WANTS YOU TO WAKE UP IN A HOPEFUL STATE, STATE OF CONSOLATION. >> OKAY. VERY GOOD. NEXT UP, EMAIL. DEAR FATHER, I HAVE STAGE IV LUNG CANCER AND I CONSIDER IT A GRACE TO PARTAKE OF OUR LORD'S SUFFERINGS. BEFORE THAT, I WAS RIGHT ON THE PATH OF SELF DESTRUCTION. NOW, I LIVE FOR THE LORD. AND MY REMAINING TIME ON EARTH IS MEANINGFUL. BLESSED ANDRE, HE SAID IF WE KNEW THE VALUE OF SUFFERING, WE WOULD ASK FOR IT. END QUOTE. >> Father: I COULDN'T AGREE MORE WITH YOUR ASSESSMENTS. I KNOW WHEN I GET TO HEAVEN, ALL THE KIND OF SUFFERINGS THAT I LOOKED UPON AND I SAID, WELL, NOT MUCH GOOD CAME FROM THAT. I'M GOING TO LOOK BACK ON THAT, AND GO, WHEW, THANK GOD I HAD THAT SUFFERING. THAT'S THE ONLY REASON I HAVE WOUND UP HERE, IN HEAVEN, THAT IS TO SAY. I JUST KNOW THAT I'M GOING TO GET A PERSPECTIVE ON SUFFERING WHEN I LOOK BACK FROM HEAVEN ON THE WHOLE PROSPECT. AND RIGHT NOW, WHEN WE LIVE IT, WE WANT TO ESCAPE IT AND SO FORTH. SO, IT'S A VERY TRYING THING INDEED. SO, THE MAIN THING IS YOU HAVE THE RIGHT ATTITUDE. I KNOW SO MANY PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN PREVENTED FROM A LIFE OF SELF DESTRUCTION. ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS, THEY HAVE THIS WHOLE THING ABOUT REACHING THE LOWEST LOW, THE BOTTOM OF THE BOTTOM. THE GROUND FLOOR. AND WHEN YOU REACH IT, THAT'S THE TIME THAT YOU ARE FINALLY FREE TO SEE WHAT A DESTRUCTIVE PATH YOU ARE ON AND TO FREELY RENOUNCE IT. THERE'S AN OLD EXPRESSION IN ECONOMICS. NEVER WASTE A PERFECTLY GOOD RECESSION. BECAUSE IN RECESSIONS, YOU CAN GET ALL KINDS OF PURIFICATIONS OF THE ECONOMY. WELL, IT'S THE SAME THING: NEVER WASTE A PERFECTLY GOOD SUFFERING. EVEN IF YOU CAN'T SEE THE RATIONALE, THE GOOD THAT'S COMING OUT FROM IT RIGHT NOW. YOU CAN VERY MUCH IN RETROSPECT, LIKE THE QUESTIONER JUST SAID, IN RETROSPECT, YOU CAN SEE, OH, THAT'S SUFFERING. THIS BAD NEWS, THAT WHACKED OVER THE HEAD WITH STAGE IV LUNG CANCER, NOW, I FINALLY GET THE PATH THAT I WAS ON. I CAN RENOUNCE IT FREELY BECAUSE I CAN SEE IT FOR WHAT IT IS. AND I CAN ALLOW THE LORD, IN THAT FREEDOM TO LEAD ME TOWARD SALVATION THROUGH THE PURIFICATION OF LOVE AND FAITH. THAT HAPPENS TO SO MANY PEOPLE SO OFTEN. CERTAINLY IN MY CASE, I DON'T THINK I WAS ON THE PATH TO SELF DESTRUCTION BUT I CAN SEE ALL KINDS OF THINGS THAT I WAS DOING IN RETROSPECT BEFORE I GOT MY EYE DISEASE WHERE I WAS JUST BEING AS PROUD AS YOU COULD POSSIBLY BE, INCLUDING SPIRITUAL PRIDE. AND I WAS CERTAINLY BEING AS IMPATIENT AS I COULD CERTAINLY ABOUT BE. I AM STILL IMPATIENT, DON'T GET ME WRONG! YOU CAN ASK MY ASSISTANT AND SO FORTH. SO, ALL OF THESE VARIOUS THINGS, I COULD SEE THEM IN A MUCH HIGHER DEGREE. AND I DID GET A HUGE AMOUNT OF FREEDOM JUST BY THE TROUBLES OF MY LIFE. AND THE FACT THAT WHEN I FINALLY DID WHAT THE QUESTIONER DID, NAMELY, WHEN I FINALLY JUST SAID, YOU KNOW, THE REAL POINT OF MY LIFE IS TO GET TO HEAVEN. AND YOU KNOW, THIS STUFF IS A BIG HUGE INTERFERENCE. AND I GOT MY PRIORITIES RIGHT, SEEK FIRST THE KINGDOM OF GOD AND ALL ELSE IS GIVEN TO YOU BESIDE. AND THEN ON TOP OF IT, I GOT THE FREEDOM TO PURSUE THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN THROUGH THAT SUFFERING. I CAN SEE IN RETROSPECT, I WAS NOT MAYBE ON A PATH TO SELF DESTRUCTION BUT I WAS CERTAINLY ON A PATH THAT WAS NOT PERFECTLY HEALTHY. AND CERTAINLY WAS THROUGH THE PATH OF THE SAINTS. I'M STILL NOT ON THE PATH OF THE SAINTS. I HAVE MY PROBLEMS. BUT TO A LESSER DEGREE THANKS TO MY SUFFERINGS. >> Doug: LET ME ASK YOU THIS QUESTION. PEOPLE WONDER, WHY DO WE HAVE THE IMAGE OF OUR LORD ON THE CROSS AND SO, THERE'S THAT RELATIONSHIP. BUT ALSO, THE IDEA BESIDES THE ACTUAL PHYSICAL SUFFERING -- I WAS GOING TO ASK YOU IN YOUR PARTICULAR CASE -- THE IDEA OF SOMEONE WHO IS SO, QUOTE, UNQUOTE, AUTONOMOUS, IN SO MANY WAYS, NOW HAS TO RELY ON OTHER PEOPLES' HELP. AND THEN, HENCE HAS TO DEAL WITH SOME LEVEL OF PRIDE IN HAVING TO ASK WHEN THEY ARE NOT USED TO ASKING. >> Father: NO, I HAVE TO TELL YOU, IN MY LIFE, HALF OF MY PROBLEM WITH PRIDE WAS JUST THE AUTONOMY PROBLEM ALONE. AND YOU DON'T EVEN REALIZE IT. BUT WHEN YOU GROW UP IN THE CULTURE, YOU GET A LOT OF THAT IDEA OF, YOU KNOW, I CARRY MY OWN WEIGHT. YOU OUGHT TO CARRY YOURS. AND THERE'S NO PUTTING YOURSELF IN SOMEBODY ELSE'S SHOES. AND I FOUND THAT WHEN EVERYTHING WAS GOING PERFECTLY GREAT, YOU CAN JUST GET RIGHT IN THE OLD CAR AND ZOOM OFF. YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T NEED THE HELP WITH ANYTHING. YOU KNOW, KIND OF GET IT, SCHOOL COMES EASY, GRADUATE SCHOOL GOES GREAT. THE BOOKS THAT YOU ARE ZIPPING OUT. THINKS ARE GOING GREAT GUNS. YOU DON'T EVEN REALIZE IT. BUT YOU BEGIN TO GET THAT STOIC PHILOSOPHY, I CARRY MY OWN WEIGHT AND YOU CARRY YOURS. THEN, ONCE YOU START THINKING THIS, THEN IT IS REALLY AMAZING HOW YOUR ABILITY TO WALK IN SOMEBODY ELSE'S SHOES. YOUR ABILITY TO HAVE COMPASSION THROUGH EMPATHY IS BECOMING SEVERELY LIMITED BECAUSE OF EVERYTHING JUST GOING SO RIGHT. AND YOU KNOW, IT COMPOUNDS ON ITSELF. AND THERE'S NOTHING LIKE A GOOD EYE DISEASE TO REALLY HELP YOU. WHERE PLAINLY, OF COURSE, I'M NOT GOING TO MAKE IT THROUGH THIS AIRPORT ON MY OWN. WOULD SOMEBODY GIVE ME AN ELBOW. AND OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, ALMOST DOING IT OUT OF DESPERATION. BUT AT FIRST, I TELL YOU, I FELT SO HUMILIATED THAT I NEEDED THE HELP, I NEEDED TO ASK. BUT PEOPLE ARE SO NICE. THEY ARE SO COMPASSIONATE. AND THE PROBLEM WASN'T WITH THEM. I WAS NOT TROUBLING THEM. THEY WERE HAPPY TO HELP ME. THE PROBLEM WAS WITH ME. WHY DO I NEED HELP AND WHY ARE THEY THE HELPERS AND ME THE HELP. I DIDN'T LIKE THAT. SO, OF COURSE, THAT WAS MY OWN PRIDE. THAT WAS MY OWN PROBLEM. AND OF COURSE, IT REALLY INTERFERES THAT AUTONOMY THING. INTERFERES WITH EMPATHY AND COMPASSION. IT'S NOT A GOOD PHILOSOPHY TO HAVE. JESUS WAS NOT TRYING TO BREED STOICS. HE WAS REALLY TRYING TO BREED COMPASSION OF PEOPLE IN THE IMAGE OF HIMSELF. >> Doug: LET'S MOVE ON. DIFFERENT TOPIC. THIS IS AN EMAIL, FATHER, LET'S ASSUME I HAD THE GREAT MISFORTUNE OF BEING BORN IN NORTH KOREA AND HAD A LIFE OF SUFFERING. COUPLED WITH THE FACT THAT I HAD NO RELIGION AND MY SUFFERING IS NOT OFFERED UP TO GOD. , HOW WOULD I BE JUDGED? ALFRED. >> Father: OKAY. ALFRED, GREAT QUESTION. THERE'S AN IMPORTANT SAYING PERTAINING TO JUDGMENT AND MORTAL SIN. GO BACK THERE FOR JUST ONE MINUTE. A MORTAL SIN REQUIRES SOME GRIEVOUS MATTER. SO, YOU HAVE TO BE DOING SOMETHING THAT WAS REALLY GRIEVOUS AND THEN YOU NEED SUFFICIENT REFLECTION AND NO IMPEDIMENT TO THE FREE USE OF THE WILL. SO, THE PERSON WHO GROWS UP, FOR EXAMPLE, IN NORTH KOREA WHO NEVER HAS EVEN HEARD OF JESUS. AND EVEN IF HE HOLDS THE LEADER OF KOREA IN COMPLETE REPUDIATION, HE'S FORCED TO LIKE THE GUY. IS IT POSSIBLE THAT THIS GUY COULD HAVE SUFFICIENT REFLECTION AS TO KNOW THE VALUE OF HIS SUFFERING OR WHETHER HE HAS COMMITTED A SIN OR SOMETHING OF THAT NATURE. AND ANSWER, ABSOLUTELY NOT. THERE'S JUST ABSOLUTELY NOTHING THERE. AND DOES HE HAVE IMPEDIMENTS TO THE FREE USE OF HIS WILL. I CAN THINK ABOUT 20 IMPEDIMENTS TO THE FREE USE OF HIS WILL. HE DOES NOT HAVE FULL CONSENT OF THE WILL. HE HAS A ZILLION IMPEDIMENTS, COULDN'T POSSIBLY. SO, REMEMBER WHAT THE SECOND VATICAN COUNCIL SAYS. WE'RE JUDGED BY GOD NOT ACCORDING NECESSARILY WHETHER OR NOT WE HAVE COMMITTED GRIEVOUS MATTER BUT WHETHER OR NOT WE HAD SUFFICIENT REFLECTION AND FULL CONSENT OF THE WILL. SO, WHAT THAT MEANS, WITH THIS GUY, TRYING TO DO HIS VERY BEST TO THE DICTATES OF HIS OWN CONSCIENCE. WAS HE TRYING TO DO THE BEST HE COULD, ACCORDING TO THE DICTATES OF HIS CONSCIENCE, ACCORDING TO HIS AWARENESS, KNOWLEDGE, AND UNDERSTANDING. WAS HE TRYING TO DO THE BEST HE COULD, TO BE A GOOD PERSON. AND IF THAT'S ALL CAN DO, REMEMBER, NORTH KOREA IS AN ATHEIST STATE SO IT WOULD BE THAT HE HAS NO AWARENESS OF THAT. GOD WOULD JUDGE HIM ACCORDINGLY AND TAKE HIM INTO THE SAME PARADISE. AND POST FACTUM CAN USE ALL THAT SUFFERING. BECAUSE THE MINUTE YOU GET INTO THE KINGDOM OF GOD OR EVEN PURGATORY, YOU WOULD RECOGNIZE IMMEDIATELY WHAT YOU WERE DESTINED FOR IN SALVATION AND OF COURSE, RECOGNIZE THE VALUE OF YOUR SUFFERING IN THE PAST. AND OF COURSE, YOU CAN GIVE IT RIGHT THEN AND THERE TO THE LORD. SO, GOD IS NOT GOING TO HOLD PEOPLE RESPONSIBLE FOR ANYTHING THAT THEY COULD NOT FREELY CHOOSE OR ANYTHING THAT THEY COULD NOT UNDERSTAND. IT'S JUST NOT GOING TO -- SO, THAT PERSON IN A NORTH KOREA, IN AN ODD WAY IS IN PRETTY GOOD SHAPE. HE'S BLAMELESS IN A WAY FOR WHAT HE DOES NOT DO KNOWINGLY. AND IN A SENSE, AUGUSTINE, I DON'T KNOW IF HE SAID THIS IN A MOMENT OF -- YOU KNOW, AUGUSTINE HAD THE MOODS WHERE HE COULD BLURT OUT A PHRASE AND SOMEBODY SAYS, MORE PEOPLE ARE SAVED OUT OF IGNORANCE THAN ANYTHING ELSE. AND I'M THINKING TO MYSELF, H-MM. THAT'S PROBABLY TRUE. ALSO, IN MY CASE. SO, I DO REALLY THINK THAT THAT GUY IN NORTH KOREA IS IN PRETTY GOOD SHAPE. I WOULD NOT WORRY ABOUT HIM. GOD WOULD NOT HOLD HIM RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT HE COULD NOT UNDERSTAND OR FREELY CHOOSE. >> Doug: ALL RIGHT. WITH THAT BEING SAID, PEOPLE SAY, WELL, IF THAT'S THE CASE AND SOMEBODY IS IN A SITUATION LIKE THAT, WELL, IT WOULD BE BETTER IF I NEVER BROUGHT THE GOSPEL TO THEM. BECAUSE IF BY BRINGING THE GOSPEL TO THEM, I PUT THEM AT RISK. WHAT DO YOU SAY TO SOMEBODY WHO USES THAT LOGIC? >> Father: I COULD SEE HOW SOMEBODY COULD DRAW THAT CONCLUSION EXCEPT FOR ONE THING. THE GOSPEL LITERALLY MEANS, THE GOOD NEWS. EVERYBODY DOES NOT HAVE TO LIVE IN THE PALLOR, THE SPECTER THAT THESE POOR PEOPLE IN NORTH KOREA HAVE TO LIVE UNDER. AND HAVE YOU A NATION LITERALLY TURNING TO CATHOLICISM AND CHRISTIANITY IN EXTRAORDINARY PERCENTAGES AND NUMBERS, THEY ARE SO OPEN TO THE GOODNESS. AND WHY? BECAUSE IT'S THE GOOD NEWS! COMPARE THAT. ASK YOURSELF ONE THING AND ANSWER THIS. WOULD YOU RATHER LIVE IN THE DARKNESS OF NEVER KNOWING THAT THERE'S AN ETERNAL LIFE AND SUSPECTING STRONGLY THAT THERE ISN'T ONE, THE ONLY THING IN LIFE IS JUST SURVIVAL, MISERY, AND PAIN. AND THAT THERE'S NO HOPE FOR ANYTHING BETTER. OR, WOULD YOU RATHER KNOW AND BE AWARE OF THE FACT THAT THIS SALVATION AND UNCONDITIONAL LOVE AND JOY AWAITS YOU. AND KNOW HOW TO PURIFY YOURSELF. RIGHT NOW, ON THIS EARTH TO EVEN FACILITATE THAT LOVE AND THAT JOY COMING INTO YOUR LIFE ETERNALLY WITH GOD IN THE BLESSED IN HEAVEN. AND THAT YOU WOULD WANT TO ORIENT YOURSELF ON THAT PATH, IN THAT HOPE, AND THROUGH THAT FAITH. WOULD YOU RATHER HAVE THAT EXISTENCE OR WOULD YOU RATHER HAVE THE SPECTER OF SHEER EMPTINESS, DARKNESS, ALIENATION AND LONELINESS THAT THE POOR PERSON IN NORTH KOREA IS LIVING IN, EVEN IN THE MIDST OF HIS OR HER FAMILY. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT JUST TWO DIFFERENT QUALITIES OF LIFE, ONE WITH THE EXPECTATION OF HOPE AND THE PRESENCE OF REAL CONSOLATION. AND ONE WHERE THERE'S JUST OMNIPRESENCE OF DEATH, DESOLATION, AND FEAR, EMPTINESS AND DESTINATION. YOU KNOW, HOLY MACKEREL, YOU WOULD HAVE TO BE A MASOCHIST TO CHOOSE THE DARKNESS. WE HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO GO AND BRING LIGHT TO THE NATIONS. CONSOLATION. THE HOPE OF SALVATION IN JESUS CHRIST. THE PATH TO SALVATION THROUGH THE PURIFICATION OF OUR FAITH AND LOVE. THIS IS WHY WE'RE THERE. WE'RE TO BRING HAPPINESS, JOY. AND REMEMBER WHAT JESUS SAYS IN JOHN 15:11, I TELL YOU ALL THESE THINGS THAT MY JOY MAY BE YOURS; AND YOUR JOY WILL BE COMPLETE. THIS SHOULD BE ON THE BYLINE OF EVERY MISSIONARY ORDER. THE OBJECTIVE OF EVERY MISSIONARY IS TO BRING THE JOY OF THE GOOD NEWS, RIGHT? POPE FRANCIS' ENCYCLICAL, THE JOY OF THE GOSPEL TO EVERYBODY IN EVERY NATION BECAUSE JOY IS EXACTLY THE OBJECTIVE OF JESUS. AND OF COURSE, WILL BE THE END FULFILLMENT OF OUR LIVES WHEN WE'RE IN PERFECT, NON EGOCENTRIC LOVE WITH GOD AND OTHERS IN HEAVEN. SO, THAT'S A VERY GOOD QUESTION. >> Doug: AND VERY GOOD. CONVENIENT TIME FOR US TO TAKE A BREAK AND FOR YOU TO TAKE A BREATH. WE'LL BE BACK WITH MUCH MORE WITH FATHER SPITZER. AS HE SAID, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, "THE LIGHT SHINES ON IN THE DARKNESS", THE TITLE OF HIS BOOK. AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE CONCLUSION, REVIEW EVERYTHING AND WRAP IT UP. COME BACK AND STAY RIGHT HERE WITH US, WHERE WE'RE AT THE INTERSECTION OF FAITH MEETING REASON. STAY WITH US! ♪ ♪ >> Doug: THANKS FOR STAYING WITH US, RIGHT HERE WITH "FR. SPITZER'S UNIVERSE." WE'RE TURNING RIGHT NOW, WHERE I HAVE MY BOOK MARK, WE'LL TURN BACK TO FATHER SPITZER AND TELL YOU, "THE LIGHT SHINES ON IN THE DARKNESS" AND WHAT A WONDERFUL COVER, THE ELK AND WHATEVER IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE. I HAVE TO TELL YOU, I'M COMING OUT AND HERE'S FATHER MITCH PULLING UP IN HIS CAR AND HE HAS A HEAD, ONE OF THOSE THINGS, IN THE FRONT SEAT. HE'S A DIFFERENT KIND OF JESUIT! >> Father: HAVE YOU BEEN TO HIS HOUSE? THERE'S ALL KINDS OF ELKHEAD AND MOOSEHEADS THERE AND OTHER HEADS HANGING OUT. >> AND YOU ALWAYS FEEL LIKE SOMEBODY IS WATCHING FOR YOU. HE'S A HUNTER FOR SOULS IN OTHER CREATURES, TOO! SO, LET'S TALK ABOUT "THE LIGHT SHINES ON IN THE DARKNESS" AND THE CONCLUSION OF THIS. THERE'S A LIGHT OF DARKNESS, [READING FAST] THE DARKNESS THROUGH FAITH MAKES THIS LIGHT ALL THE MORE PROFOUND REFINING OUR LORD TO EVER AUTHENTIC AND UNCONDITIONAL STATE. SO, WHAT IS THE LIGHT? >> Father: WHAT IT'S TRYING TO DO, ELABORATE ON THE OLD PHRASE. THANK GOD FOR THE DARKNESS. THAT'S THE TIME WHEN THE STARS COME OUT. IN OTHER WORDS, YOU CAN ONLY SEE STARS IN TIMES OF DARKNESS BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT BRIGHT ENOUGH TO OVERCOME THE SUN. BUT THE STARS ARE MULTIPLE AND THEY ARE BEAUTIFUL. AND YOU KNOW, WHAT ARE THOSE STARS. ONE OF THEM, OF COURSE, THE PURIFICATION OF OUR FAITH. I MEAN, THAT'S A HUGE STAR. AND YOU WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT AUTONOMY, IN THE LAST SEGMENT. AND IT'S REALLY, IN OUR CULTURE, AUTONOMY IS A BIG DEAL. NOT HAVING TO ASK ANYBODY FOR HELP. AND IF WE HAVE TO, THAT'S NOT AN OCCASION FOR COMPASSION AND EMPATHY. THAT'S NOT FAIR. AND OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, THE MINUTE YOU START SAYING THAT, YOU BEGIN RESENTING THE GOD, YOU ARE GIVEN THE UNFAIRNESS AND THE GRACE OF SUFFERING JUST SLIPS THROUGH YOUR FINGERS. BUT THE MAIN THING, THIS DEPENDENCE ON GOD IS ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL. AND YOU KNOW, THAT MEANS THAT WE HAVE TO DEVELOP THAT AWARENESS OF GOD'S PRESENCE, THAT HE'S HERE WITH US. AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE ACQUIRE THROUGHOUT LIFE. AND CERTAINLY SOMETHING THAT I ACQUIRED THROUGHOUT LIFE. AND SUFFERING WAS VERY INSTRUMENTAL IN THAT. YOU KNOW, RECOGNIZING THE PRESENCE OF GOD, THAT HE'S RIGHT THERE WITH ME, THAT WHEN I NEED HIS HELP, THINGS ACTUALLY BEGIN TO HAPPEN WHEN I ASK HIM FOR THAT HELP. AND LIKE I SAID, SOMETIMES, YOU KNOW, I CAN BE COMPLETELY DISCOMBOBULATED. AND I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE'S SOMEBODY IN A ROOM AND THEY SAY, ARE YOU LOST. AND I SAY, WELL, ACTUALLY, I'M KIND OF BLIND. AND THEY GO, OH, OKAY. BUT THE MINUTE YOU SAY THAT PRAYER, YOU GET AN OFFER. EVENTUALLY, WHAT IT CULTIVATES IN YOU IS THE AWARENESS THAT GOD IS THERE. NOT ONLY GOD BUT THE BLESSED VIRGIN MARY IS THERE. THE SAINTS ARE THERE, THEY ARE PRESENT AND YOU LEARN OF THEIR BENEVOLENCE IN THEIR PRESENCE. GOD IS BENEVOLENTLY PRESENT. HE'S NOT HATEFULLY PRESENT. WE TAKE JESUS' IMAGE OF GOD VERY, VERY SERIOUSLY. YEAH, WE CAN ABSOLUTELY CHOOSE THE DARKNESS. NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT. AT THE SAME TIME, GOD IS BENEVOLENTLY PRESENT. AND SUFFERING IMMEASURABLY TO PURIFY MY FAITH. HELPING ME IMMEASURABLY TO BE AWARE OF GOD'S PRESENCE. IMMEASURABLY TO KNOW THAT GOD IS BENEVOLENTLY PRESENT AND NOT SPITEFULLY PRESENT, ET CETERA. ANOTHER AREA THAT'S SO IMPORTANT IS TO KNOW THAT WE'RE NOT GOD. SO MANY TIMES WE CAN GET THIS SUPER IMPRESSION, HOW CAN THE CHURCH LIVE WITHOUT ME. OR I'M SO GOOD. I JUST DON'T KNOW WHY EVERYBODY ELSE IS BAD. AND THIS IS NORMALLY CALLED SPIRITUAL PRIDE. SPIRITUAL PRIDE IS A DEVASTATING THING PARTICULARLY FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE ADVANCED IN THE SPIRITUAL LIFE. EVERY SAINT SAYS WE HAVE TO BE AWARE OF IT. BUT THERE'S ONE WAY TO CURE A MESSIANIC PROBLEM. THAT'S TO GIVE ST. PAUL A NICE EYE PROBLEM. AND THEN, OF COURSE, ALL OF A SUDDEN, IT BECOMES PRESENT TO HIM. WAIT A MINUTE, WAIT A MINUTE, HE SAYS. WAIT A MINUTE, THAT THORN OF THE FLESH, ANGEL OF SATAN TO BEAT ME. THAT'S NOT A BAD DEAL. IT'S GOING TO PROTECT ME AND KEEP ME FROM GETTING PROUD. HE PUTS IT RIGHT OUT THERE. AND WHAT HE MEANS BY PRIDE IS, SPIRITUALLY PROUD BECAUSE HE'S TALKING ABOUT SPIRITUAL BLESSINGS AND HAVING MYSTICAL EXPERIENCES. THINGS OF THAT NATURE, CAUGHT UP INTO THE HEAVENS AND SO FORTH. WHEN HE'S TALKING ABOUT THAT, RIGHT? HE'S TALKING ABOUT SPIRITUAL PRIDE. AND HE'S JUST SAYING TO GOD, THANK YOU FOR THIS. I KNOW HOW IMPORTANT IT IS. ANOTHER THING, IT'S SO IMPORTANT TO ME, DROPPING THE AUTONOMY THING. NOT JUST THE PRIDE PART OF IT. BUT BEING MUCH MORE EMPATHETIC WITH PEOPLE. BUT WHEN YOU DROP THE AUTONOMY PIECE, YOU REALLY COME TO THE REALITY, WE'RE INTERDEPENDENT, WE NEED OTHERS AND OTHERS NEED US. WE CAN ASK FOR HELP. THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO ARE WILLING TO GRANT IT. WHEN WE STOP THINKING ABOUT THAT FOR OURSELVES, ALL OF A SUDDEN, WE EMPATHIZE WITH OTHERS MUCH MORE DEEPLY. AND WHEN WE DO, WE UNDERSTAND THEM MUCH MORE DEEPLY. AND WHEN WE DO, WE CAN WALK IN THEIR SHOES MUCH MORE DEEPLY AND MEANS COMPASSION BECOMES THE STATE OF THE DAY RATHER THAN AUTONOMY. AND THAT'S REALLY WHERE JESUS IS ASKING US TO GO, TO BE IN THAT INTERDEPENDENT STATE. YOU KNOW, THERE'S SO MANY OTHER THINGS, THE OPPORTUNITIES TO SERVE THAT ARE ENHANCED. YOU KNOW, THE POSSIBILITIES FOR TESTING OUR METAL. THIS IS SO IMPORTANT. YOU DON'T KNOW YOU HAVE COURAGE UNTIL YOU HAVE TO USE IT. THAT'S JUST THE WAY IT IS. AND YOU ARE NEVER GOING TO KNOW THAT YOU HAVE TO USE IT UNLESS YOU ACTUALLY EXPERIENCE REAL FEAR SO, IF YOU WANT TO KNOW, DO I HAVE THE COURAGE TO REALLY ENDURE PAIN FOR THE SAKE OF MY FAITH? DO I REALLY HAVE THE COURAGE TO ENDURE PAIN TO DO SOMETHING NOBLE FOR SOMEBODY ELSE? DO I REALLY HAVE THE COURAGE? WELL, YOU ARE NEVER GOING TO KNOW UNTIL YOU GET INTO THE FIRE, PUT INTO THE FIRE TO DO WHATEVER IT IS. PAIN, OR MAYBE EMBARRASSMENT OR DISCRIMINATION, OR EVEN DEATH. YOU KNOW, WE DON'T KNOW UNTIL WE'VE HAD TO DO IT. AND IF WE'RE ABLE, TO ME, SOME OF THE BEST MOMENTS OF MY LIFE HAVE BEEN THE ONES WHERE I AM JUST IN ABJECT FEAR ALL OF A SUDDEN, YOU MOVE YOUR WAY THROUGH IT, NOT JUST COURAGE BUT FAITH. AND IT'S THE COMBINATION OF THE TWO OF THEM. YOU MOVE THROUGH THAT. AND YOU GO, WHOA!. THAT'S ONE OF THE MOST DEFINING MOMENTS OF MY LIFE. AND IT IS. IT IS ONE OF THE MOST DEFINING MOMENTS OF OUR LIFE. AND WITHOUT THAT POSSIBILITY OF FEAR AND SUFFERING, WE WOULD NEVER HAVE HAD IT. SO, PEOPLE SAY, WHY COULDN'T GOD JUST LEAVE US IN THE PLEASURE BUBBLE. WHY COULDN'T HE JUST LEAVE US IN A PERPETUAL STATE OF, YOU KNOW, CHILDHOOD. I REMEMBER MY LITTLE NIECE ONCE, SHE WAS IN ABOUT THE SEVENTH GRADE AND SHE WAS APPARENT THAT SHE WAS GOING TO HAVE TO GROW UP AND I WAS JUST KISSING HER GOOD NIGHT. AND SHE LOOKS UP AND ME AND SHE SAID, UNCLE BOBBY, I DON'T WANT TO GROW UP. AND I SAID, YOU KNOW, I KNOW. IT'S A TOUGH PROSPECT. BUT IN THE END, YOU WILL KNOW THAT IT WAS WORTH IT WHEN YOU DO. BECAUSE THERE'S SO MUCH MORE TO LIFE THAN WHAT YOU ARE RIGHT NOW EXPERIENCING THROUGH YOUR CHILDHOOD AND YOUR PARENTS TAKING CARE OF THINGS. YOU JUST CAN'T LIVE LIKE THAT. THERE'S MUCH MORE ABOUT MEGAN THAT WE NEED TO KNOW. >> Father: PETER PAN SYNDROME, PEOPLE USED TO CALL THINGS LIKE THAT. >> Father: RIGHT, EXACTLY. SO, THERE'S SO MUCH. AND THERE'S MANY STARS IN THE DARKNESS. BUT THE STARS ARE NOT GOING TO COME OUT UNTIL IT'S DARK. >> Doug: OKAY. PHASE ONE, THEOLOGICAL PREPARATION FOR SUFFERING. 1, 2, 3. FOUNDATION ONE, CONVICTION ABOUT THE RESURRECTION. FOUNDATION TWO, AFFIRMING THE UNCONDITIONAL LOVE OF GOD. AND IN PART THREE OF THAT, YOU SAY RECOGNIZING GOD'S PRESENCE IN OUR SUFFERING, YOU SAY, THE ALLEVIATION OF SUFFERING IS SECONDARY TO OUR AND OTHERS SALVATION AND FREEDOM. >> Father: THAT'S REALLY TRUE. GOD HAS TWO HIGHER PRIORITIES IN MIND THAN ALLEVIATING OUR SUFFERING OR OTHER'S SUFFERING. WHAT'S THAT? OUR SALVATION AND OTHER'S SALVATION IS NUMBER ONE. AND NUMBER TWO, OUR FREEDOM AND OTHERS FREEDOM. HE HAS TO, WITHOUT FREEDOM, WE DON'T EVEN HAVE THE CAPACITY TO LOVE. AND WITHOUT LOVE, WHAT'S THE POINT OF LIFE. SO, OF COURSE, GOD ABSOLUTELY HAS TO HAVE THESE TWO PRIORITIES AHEAD OF THINGS. HE'S GOT TO PRESERVE. HIS HIGHEST PRIORITY IS GOING TO BRING US TO HIGHER LOVE IN LOVE AND JOY. AND HIS SECOND PRIORITY HAS TO BE TO PROTECT OUR FREEDOM SO WE HAVE THE POSSIBILITY OF LOVING AND THAT POSSIBILITY OF LOVING IS GOING TO BE OUR ETERNAL DESTINY. THE POSSIBILITY OF NOT ONLY OVERCOMING OUR EGOS, BUT THE POSSIBILITY OF CHOOSING OTHERS AS EQUALLY IMPORTANT TO OURSELVES. LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF AND OF COURSE, WHEN WE GET TO THAT IDEAL, RIGHT, THE JOY THAT WILL COME FROM THAT AT THE BANQUET IN THE HEAVENLY FEAST WILL BE IMMENSE. SO, GOD HAS THOSE PRIORITIES AND THERE'S NO WAY AROUND IT. AND SO, IF THERE'S SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, STANDING BETWEEN THE ALLEVIATION OF OUR SUFFERING AND OUR SALVATION OR OTHERS' SALVATION OR OTHER FREEDOM AND OTHERS FREEDOM, GOD IS GOING TO TAKE THE HIGHER PRIORITIES FIRST. HE HAS TO. OTHERWISE, THE MEANING OF OUR LIVES, THE WHOLE REASON FOR OUR EXISTENCE, AND OUR WHOLE ETERNAL SALVATION IS THROWN INTO COMPLETE JEOPARDY. SO, GOD IS PRETTY INTELLIGENT. HE'S PRETTY WISE, INFINITELY INTELLIGENT AND INFINITELY WISE. HE KNOWS WHAT'S GOOD FOR US. AND SO, HE ALLOWS US TO ENDURE THAT SUFFERING. BUT OF COURSE, IN THE MIDST OF IT, THE HOLY SPIRIT IS OPENING DOORS TO NEW OPPORTUNITIES, THE HOLY SPIRIT IS HELPING US TO GROW IN VIRTUE, THE HOLY SPIRIT IS HELPING US TO GROW IN LOVE, COMPASSION, EMPATHY AND THE HOLY SPIRIT IS HELPING US TO GROW IN FAITH, AND DEPTH. THE HOLY SPIRIT IS ALLOWING US TO SERVE OTHERS, TO SERVE THE KINGDOM OF GOD THROUGH THOSE VERY INSTRUMENTS OF SUFFERING. THE HOLY SPIRIT IS TOTALLY ACTIVE IN TIMES OF SUFFERING. TO ENHANCE OUR SALVATION. OUR ABILITY TO BRING SALVATION TO OTHERS AND ENHANCE OUR FREEDOM AND TO BRING ENHANCED FREEDOM TO OTHERS. AND ALONG WITH IT, VIRTUE, LOVE, AND FAITH. AND ULTIMATELY, OF COURSE, THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. >> Doug: OKAY. AND JUST BELOW THAT, IN THE BOOK ON PAGE 494. WE NEED HUMILITY AND TRUST TO GIVE GOD THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT. WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT? >> Father: SOMETIMES WHEN WE START SUFFERING, RIGHT? THIS INTUITION COMES INTO OUR HEAD THAT GOD HAS REJECTED US. INTUITION COMES IN THAT GOD HAS ABANDONED US OR GOD WASN'T EVEN PRESENT FROM THE VERY BEGINNING. AND WE WERE JUST TELLING OURSELVES A LIE. AND OF COURSE, THE EVIL SPIRIT IS OUT THERE STOKING THAT. AND THOSE THINGS RISE UP OUT OF OUR SUBCONSCIOUS MIND AND THE EVIL SPIRIT IS STOKING THOSE THOUGHTS. YES, YES, YES, THAT'S RIGHT, GOD IS NOT AROUND, YOU LITTLE FOOL. NOW, EVE, YOU JUST LITTLE FOOL, YOU NEEDED A CRUTCH AND YOU WENT FOR THE BAIT. OH, REALLY GOD LIKED YOU BUT YOU HAVE DONE SOMETHING WRONG AND THEREFORE, NOW IN YOUR MOMENT OF PAIN AND SUFFERING, HE'S ABANDONED YOU TO PUNISH YOU FOR YOUR PAST SINS. OR YES, YES, YES, GOD HAS REJECTED YOU, YOU SINFUL LITTLE HORRIBLE WRETCH YOU. I MEAN, AFTER ALL, DON'T YOU KNOW HOW GOD REALLY VIEWS YOU? AND OF COURSE, ALL OF THESE THINGS WILL POP INTO OUR HEAD. AND THEY ARE RIGHT THERE ON THE CUSP OF OUR SUBCONSCIOUS MIND. AND WHEN WE SUFFER, WHAT'S THE FIRST THING WE DO? WE TURN INWARDLY. AND WHEN WE TURN INWARDLY. ALL THESE THINGS JUST POP OUT OF US. WE'RE NOT TAKING FEEDBACK FROM PEOPLE AROUND US. WE'RE NOT THINKING ABOUT GETTING FEEDBACK FROM GOD. WE'RE LITERALLY TRYING IN SOME SENSE TO MANAGE IT OURSELVES. AND WHEN WE DO THAT, RIGHT, ALL OF THOSE SUDDEN HORRIBLE IMAGES OF GOD COME OUT, ALL UNTRUE. SO, WHAT I SAY, BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING ELSE, GIVE GOD THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT. WHAT BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT? THAT HE'S WISE, AND THAT HE KNOWS WHAT HE'S DOING, AND THAT HE HASN'T ABANDONED US, THAT HE IS COMPLETELY AND UNRESTRICTEDLY LOVING TOWARD US, AND BENEVOLENTLY LOVING TOWARD US. HE DOESN'T HATE US. HE'S NOT PAYING US BACK FOR SIN. HE'S NOT TORMENTING US. AND OF COURSE, YES, HE EXISTS. OF COURSE, HE'S PRESENT. HE'S BEEN PRESENT, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, IF YOU WANT EVIDENCE FOR THAT, THEN I'VE GOT TWO FULL BOOKS OF EVIDENCE. JUST READ THE SOUL'S UPWARD YEARNING AND THE NEW PROOF FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD. GO TO magiscenter.com AND I HAVE A ZILLION FREE ARTICLES, WITH EVIDENCE JUST GALORE. AND THE POINT OF THAT IS, THERE'S THE REALITY OF HIS PRESENCE IN OUR PAST LIVES. WE KNOW IT IF WE JUST STOP, STOP WITH THOSE CRAZY SUBCONSCIOUS INTUITIONS COMING IN AND TAKING OVER OUR CONSCIOUS MIND. JUST GIVE THEM THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT. DON'T LET THOSE THINGS TAKE OVER. AND ONCE YOU SAY, YOU ARE ALL WISE, YOU ARE ALL LOVING, YOU ARE ALL PRESENT. YOU ARE BENEVOLENTLY PRESENT. OKAY. WHERE ARE YOU LEADING ME HERE? WHERE'S THE HOLY SPIRIT OPENING THE DOORS IN FRONT OF ME HERE. IF YOU DO THAT, YOU ARE GOING TO BE IN GREAT SHAPE BECAUSE YOU ARE GOING TO USE YOUR SUFFERING TOWARD YOUR SALVATION, TOWARD THE PURIFICATION OF FAITH AND LOVE. AND IF YOU DON'T GIVE GOD THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT RIGHT UP FRONT, FOR ALL INTENSIVE PURPOSES, YOU ARE GOING TO GET RESENTFUL OR DESPAIRING AND THE EVIL SPIRIT IS THE ONLY ONE THAT GAINS FROM IT. HE WANTS YOU TO HAVE A BAD IMAGE OF GOD, WANTS YOU TO DESPAIR, BE RESENTFUL AND THINK THAT GOD HAS ABANDONED YOU, AND HE WANTS YOU TO THINK THAT GOD IS PUNISHING YOU AND PORTRAY THAT GOD IS THE PAYBACK GOD, TERRIFYING GOD, DISGUSTED GOD AND ALL OF THE FALSENESS THAT WE'VE BEEN THROUGH. AND GIVE THEM THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT AND WHEN TEMPTATION COMES AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN. CHOOSE GOD. GIVE HIM THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT. AND EVENTUALLY, YOUR MIND WILL BECOME UNCLOUDED. REMEMBER, THE MORE YOU GO OUT TO GOD, AND THE MORE YOU GO TO OTHERS, THE MORE UNCLOUDING YOUR MIND WILL BE. SO, IF YOU STAY WITHIN, THEN THE CLOUDING THICKENS AND THEN IT CAN GET PEA SOUPISH IN THERE. AND IF IT DOES, IT'S REALLY HARD TO SEE THE TRUTH THROUGH ALL OF THE PEA SOUP. AND THEN WE BEGIN TO SINK INTO DESPAIR OR SEETHE IN RESENTMENT AND BOTH IN A FALSE PREMISE STOKED BY THE EVIL SPIRIT. BECAUSE WE'RE NOT LISTENING TO THE HOLY SPIRIT. >> Doug: AND IN CORNELIUS' CASE, HE SAID THE FOG WAS THICK AS PEANUT BUTTER VS. PEA SOUP, FOR THOSE THAT REMEMBER RUDOLPH THE RED-NOSED REINDEER. >> Father: I REMEMBER THAT. >> Doug: AND YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT [READING RAPIDLY]. . .AND MITIGATING FEAR AND CHOOSING CONSOLATION. AND USE REASON AND PRUDENCE TO CREATE A BACKUP PLAN AND TEAM RESPONSE. AND YOU SAY, RESHAPE THE EXPECTATIONS FROM STOPPING THE REFRAIN, I CAN'T BE HAPPY WITHOUT IT. I CAN BE HAPPY WITH A NEW WAY. I MEAN, IT SEEMS TO ME SOMETIMES PEOPLES' GREATNESS ON HAPPINESS COMES WITH DISCUSSION ABOUT AN OPTION THAT DOESN'T ACTUALLY EXIST? >> Father: NO, THAT'S RIGHT. OF COURSE, AS I ALWAYS SAY, COMPARISONS IN TIMES OF SUFFERING ARE THE RECIPE FOR INSANITY. I'M AN EXPERT. YOU KNOW, TWO WEEKS AGO, I COULD SEE PART OF THAT MOUNTAIN, TODAY, I CAN'T. LET ME TORMENT MYSELF SOME MORE BECAUSE I CAN'T DO WHAT I USED TO BE ABLE TO DO OR JOE CAN DO THIS. OR I CAN'T DO THIS. THAT'S NOT FAIR. AND ONCE YOU START IN, ON THE COMPARISONS, RIGHT, IT'S JUST ABSOLUTELY MEANINGLESS. INSTEAD OF COMPARING YOURSELF TO WHAT YOU COULD DO AND FIND YOURSELF WANTING, LOOK AT WHAT YOU CAN DO AND HOW YOU CAN COMPLETE THE WORK OF GOD. HOW YOU CAN WORK FOR THE KINGDOM OF GOD WITH WHAT YOU DO HAVE. HOW YOU CAN WORK WITH YOUR FAMILY FOR WHAT YOU DO HAVE. HOW YOU CAN ACTUALLY PURIFY YOURSELF OR HELP OTHERS TO BE PURIFIED THROUGH WHAT YOU DO HAVE. AND FOR ALL INTENSIVE PURPOSES, WHAT WE WANT TO DO IS TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE OPPORTUNITIES THERE. AND OF COURSE, PRUDENCE IS REALLY IMPORTANT BECAUSE AS I POINTED OUT BEFORE, THERE'S INITIAL PANIC AND EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT IF YOU ARE INTO SPORTS AND IF YOU HAVE BEEN IN A WAR, THEN YOU KNOW THAT PANIC IS THE WORST THING THAT CAN HAPPEN BECAUSE RIGHT AWAY, THAT PANIC JUST CAUSES THE ADRENALINE NOT TO BE USED TO MAKE YOU MUCH MORE ASTUTE BUT THE ADRENALINE MAKES YOU COMPLETELY NUMB. AND IF YOU ARE NUMB, YOU ARE NOT THINKING, FEELING, OR LITERALLY NOT MOVING AND THAT'S IS A VERY BAD THING. SO, WHAT YOU WANT TO DO IS IMMEDIATELY START THINKING AND FORCE YOURSELF TO THINK. AND HOW DO YOU FORCE YOURSELF TO THINK? YOU KNOW THE ANSWER TO THIS. YOU ASK GOOD QUESTIONS. SO YOU ASK QUESTIONS, OKAY. WHAT'S THE BACKUP PLAN. HOW CAN I GET DAMAGE CONTROL HERE. OKAY. WHO AM I GOING TO ASK TO HELP ME GET SOME DAMAGE CONTROL? AND YOU KNOW, WHO CAN I RELY ON, IF THIS THING FAILS, PLAN B FAILS, WHO IS GOING TO HELP ME GET PLAN C GOING. WHO CAN I ASK. HOW AM I GOING TO SET UP AND STRUCTURE MY LIFE IF ALL OF THESE THINGS HAPPEN, ET CETERA, ET CETERA. SO, YOU START ASKING REALLY GOOD QUESTIONS. AND GIVE A WHOLE LIST OF THE QUESTIONS THERE. AND ONCE YOU START ASKING THOSE QUESTIONS AND YOUR MIND STARTS THINKING AND YOU GET INTO THOSE THOUGHTS. WATCH THE PANIC SUBSIDE. THERE'S KNOTTING BETTER THAN A -- NOTHING BETTER THAN A GOOD DOSE OF THINKING INCITED BY A GOOD QUESTION. TO STOP THE PANIC AND GET SERIOUS ABOUT MOVING BEYOND IT. AND THIS IS GOING TO BRING A WHOLE NEW DIMENSION TO YOUR SPONTANEOUS PRAYERS AND THOSE SPONTANEOUS PRAYERS COMBINED WITH GOOD RATIONALITY, THAT'S GOING TO LEAD TO A REALLY GOOD WAY OF MOVING THROUGH THE SUFFERING TOWARD YOUR SALVATION, TOWARD DEEPER LOVE, DEEPER FAITH. AND TOWARD THE SERVICE OF OTHERS. >> Doug: RIGHT. AND I WAS THINKING, SOMETIMES IN BUSINESS, THEY CAULK ABOUT SOMETHING WORST CASE SCENARIO. AND WHEN YOU ARE IN A SITUATION LIKE THAT, STOPPING LIKE YOU SAID, TAKING A DEEP BREATH AND SAYING, OKAY, MAYBE THESE THINGS THAT I AM AFRAID OF ARE TRUE, WHAT'S REALLY THE WORST THING THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN TO ME. CAN I NOT EVEN ULTIMATELY DEAL WITH THOSE, EVEN IF I WOULD RATHER NOT DEAL WITH THEM, BUT IF THEY WERE TO HAPPEN, COULD I DEAL WITH THEM. >> Father: EXACTLY. EXACTLY. AND THERE'S ALWAYS A FALL BACK PLAN. I JUST DON'T HAVE A SITUATION IN MY LIFE. I MEAN, FOR MY EYES, FOR CRISIS SITUATIONS, WHEN I WAS PRESIDENT OF GONZAGA OR WHATEVER IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN. BUT I MEAN, THERE WERE ALWAYS DIFFERENT FALLBACK PLANS THAT YOU COULD IMPLEMENT. YOU JUST HAD TO THINK ABOUT IT AND CONSIDER, OKAY. WHO IS GOING TO HELP ME WITH THE FALLBACK PLAN. AND WHAT'S THE STEPS THAT I NEED TO TAKE FOR THE FALLBACK PLAN. AND HOW DO I DO DAMAGE CONTROL IN THE FALLBACK PLAN. AND IF YOU ARE THINK, THINKING, THINKING, IT TAKES YOUR MIND OFF THE PANIC AND FOCUSES YOUR MIND ON THE RESULTS EVEN IF IT'S A WORSE CASE SCENARIO. YOU ARE RIGHT. MANAGING THAT RATIONALLY DOES REMOVE FEAR. IT REALLY WORKS. >> Doug: WELL, OUR LORD TELLS US NOT TO WORRY. AND A LOT OF TIMES, THE WORRY KEEPS US FROM STEPPING OUT AND KEEPING US FROM DOING WHAT I CAN DO IN THIS SITUATION, NOT WHY, BUT WHAT. >> Father: EXACTLY. >> Doug: THE RULES FOR SECOND DISCERNMENT HERE, NEVER MAKE AN IMPORTANT DECISION IN THE TERMS OF EFFECTIVE OR SPIRITUAL DESOLATION. AND WHY DO YOU THINK THAT'S SO IMPORTANT? I KNOW THAT WAS A PRIMARY FOCUS OF ST. IGNATIUS. >> Father: THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT. WHAT'S GOING ON THERE, THIS IS KIND OF, YOU KNOW, ST. IGNATIUS HAS THESE RULES, RIGHT? SO, WHEN SUFFERING OCCURS, WHAT ST. IGNATIUS IS SAYING, AND WHAT I'M SAYING, FROM MY OWN EXPERIENCE, THAT A DOOR SLAMS, THE HOLY SPIRIT IS GENERALLY OPENING ONE OR TWO DOORS. SOMETHING IS GOING TO OPEN. AND I GIVE SOME OF THE CLUES THAT WE GET WHEN DOORS OPEN. SO, FOR EXAMPLE, SOMETIMES WHEN A DOOR OPENS, WE FEEL A SENSE OF CONSOLATION, RIGHT? SOMETIMES WHEN A DOOR OPENS, IT WILL BE JUST A PERSON, OH, SPITZER, YOU OUGHT TO THINK ABOUT THIS. AND YOU NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT IT BEFORE. AND SOMETIMES ALL OF A SUDDEN, YOU THINK OF SOMETHING, READING A BOOK OR READING AN ARTICLE OR WATCHING EWTN PROGRAM AND A DOOR HAS SLAMMED. AND ALL OF A SUDDEN, YOU THINK ABOUT SOMETHING ON THE PROGRAM OR YOU READ A LINE IN THE BOOK. AND YOU THINK, OH, THAT'S INTERESTING. BUT THE THINKING IS, IT STANDS OFF THE PAGE. AND ALMOST LIKE SOMEBODY IS SAYING SOMETHING TO YOU. GET AN IDEA. WELL, THE HOLY SPIRIT WRITES AND SAYS, HERE, HERE IS SOMETHING THAT MAY PROVE HELPFUL. ST. IGNATIUS SAYS BE DISCERNING, DON'T JUST LEAP AT IT. LOOK AT IT. START BY ASKING, DO YOU FEEL LIKE THIS IS PRUDENTIALLY A GOOD IDEA? IS THIS SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN DO. IS THIS SOMETHING THAT COULD REALLY HELP YOU TO FIND A NEW PATH IN LIFE THAT YOU COULD MAYBE MINISTER IN A WAY YOU COULDN'T DO BEFORE OR DO SOMETHING FOR YOUR FAMILY THAT YOU COULDN'T DO BEFORE. IS THIS PRUDENT, RATIONAL, OR A GOOD IDEA IN YOUR LIFE. AND SECONDLY, DO YOU FEEL LIKE YOU ARE CALLED TO THIS? SOMETIMES IT'S QUITE SURPRISING AS I SAID IN MANY STORIES BEFORE. I DIDN'T THINK I HAD ANY CAREER IN TEACHING OR PREACHING OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. IT WAS THROUGH CRAZY SUFFERING AND OPPORTUNITIES THAT I GOT TO THAT POINT WHERE ALL OF A SUDDEN, IT BECAME APPARENT. I COULD REALLY TEACH. BUT -- >> Doug: WELL, YOUR FANS AGREE A THOUSAND PERCENT. AND THAT'S WHY THEY TUNE IN EVERY WEEK TO HEAR THE WORDS OF WISDOM. THE BOOK, "THE LIGHT SHINES ON IN THE DARKNESS" AND THERE'S SO MUCH MORE AHEAD. WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE WITH FATHER SPITZER WHEN WE SEE HIM ONCE AGAIN NEXT WEEK AND GIVE US YOUR FINAL BLESSING, FATHER, BEFORE WE GO. >> Father: ABSOLUTELY. AND BOW YOUR HEAD, PRAY FOR GOD'S BLESSING. MAY THE SPIRIT OF ALMIGHTY GOD, THE SPIRIT OF JESUS CHRIST DESCEND UPON ALL OF YOU TO ALLOW YOU TO KNOW AND TO HAVE TRUST IN THE WISDOM AND THE LOVE THAT MOTIVATES THE HEART OF GOD AND OUR LORD JESUS IN EVERY MOMENT OF SUFFERING, AND THAT ANIMATES YOU THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT AND LEADS YOU THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT TO FIND SALVATION AND LOVE AND FAITH IN THAT SUFFERING SO THAT TOGETHER WE MAY BE IN LOVE, IN JOY, IN THE HEAVENLY KINGDOM WITH OUR LORD WHO HAS CALLED US. IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, AND OF THE SON, AND OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. AMEN. >> Doug: AMEN. THANK YOU SO MUCH, FATHER. WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK. AND WE HOPE THAT YOU WILL STAY WITH US AS WELL. DON'T FORGET ABOUT FATHER'S WONDERFUL BOOK, ewtnRC.com AND MAKESHIFT NEW BOOK AS WELL BY OUR GOOD FRIEND FATHER CHARLES CONNOR AND FATHER SPITZER'S BOOK IS ALWAYS CHECKING IT OUT. AND NEXT WEEK, SOMETHING SPECIAL, SEASONAL, THE GIFT OF THE MAGI, NOT THE 0 HENRY STORY, BUT SOMETHING DIFFERENT. AND I'M DOUG KECK, THANK YOU, WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK AT THE INTERSECTION OF FAITH AND REASON. AND WHERE WE ALWAYS HANG OUT EVERY WEDNESDAY. ♪
