[MUSIC] >> WELCOME, ONCE AGAIN TO FATHER SPITZER SPITZER'S UNIVERSE. I'M DOUG KECK, YOUR HOST, AT A VERY INTERESTING AND BUSY INTERSECTION OF FAITH AND REASON. GREAT TO BE BACK WITH YOU AGAIN. REMEMBER YOUR QUESTIONS ARE IMPORTANT TO US. SO YOU CAN REACH US VIA E-MAIL, FACEBOOK, TWITTER AND PROBABLY SOME OTHER SOCIAL MEDIA OUTLETS IN THE FUTURE, BASED ON HOPING NOT TO GET BANNED AND WE ARE AT THE MAGIS CENTER AND CREDIBLECATHOLIC.COM. TODAY WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A SHOW BASED ON HIS LATEST BOOK CHRIST VS. SATAN IN OUR DAILY LIVES: THE COSMIC STRUGGLE. THE BOOK IS AVAILABLE THROUGH THE EWTN RELIG RELIGIOUS CATALO. ANOTHER GREAT BOOK IS "TOIL AND TRANSCENDENCE: CATHOLICISM IN 20TH-CENTURY AMERICA" FROM CHARLES CONNOR PUBLISHED BY EWTN PUBLISHING. LOOK FOR AN INTERVIEW I DID WITH HIM. HE'S ON WITH FATHER MITCH AS WELL. CHECK OUT THAT BOOK AS WELL, "TOIL AND TRANSCENDENCE: CATHOLICISM IN 20TH-CENTURY AMERICA." WITH THAT SAID, WE TURN TO FATHER SPITZER ONCE MORE ON THE WEST COAST TO LEAD US IN PRAYER. >> IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER AND THE SON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT AMEN. HEAVENLY FATHER WE GIVE YOU THANKS ONCE AGAIN FOR YOUR BLESSINGS TO US WHICH ARE MANY. WE ASK YOU IN A SPECIAL WAY TO LOOK OUT FOR OUR COUNTRY, OUR CULTURE THIS DAY. WE ASK YOU, LORD, THAT YOU SEND YOUR HOLY SPIRIT DOWN ON DOUG AND MYSELF. PLEASE ALSO BLESS OUR CHURCH, OUR AUDIENCE AS WE TRY TO CONTEND WITH SO MANY CHALLENGES THAT FACE US IN SO MANY DIFFERENT WAYS. YOUR HOLY SPIRIT HAS ALWAYS LED US AND WE HAVE CONFIDENCE AND TRUST IN YOU. WE ASK TOO THAT YOU BRING THE BEST FOR YOUR KINGDOM, YOUR PEOPLE AND YOUR CHURCH OUT OF EVERYTHING THAT WE DO AND SAY THROUGH JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD, AMEN. >> MARY'S SEAT OF WISDOM, PRAY FOR US IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, THE SON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT, AMEN. >> AMEN. >> THANK YOU SO MUCH, FATHER. OF COURSE, THERE'S A LOT GOING ON. OBVIOUSLY ONE OF THE THINGS WE WANT TO DO IS ACKNOWLEDGE AS PART OF THE PRAYER THE GREAT VETERANS CERTAINLY HERE IN THE UNITED STATES AS VETERANS DAY HERE ON THIS WEDNESDAY AND HONOR THE VETERANS AND OBVIOUSLY ALL OF THE CHAPLAINS, AS WELL, WHO ARE SERVING OUR MILITARY SERVICES AROUND THE WORLD. WE WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THEM, OF COURSE. >> YOU BET. >> A COUPLE OTHER SMALL THINGS GOING ON. I GUESS WE HAVE AN ELECTION THAT JUST TOOK PLACE WHICH THERE'S CERTAIN THINGS ABOUT IT THAT ARE STILL UP IN THE AIR. I THINK WE ALL HAVE TO DO WHAT IS ALWAYS PRUDENT WHICH IS PRAY AND WAIT AND SEE, RIGHT? >> CORRECT. I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE WE CAN DO. THERE' A WHOLE LOT OF CONTESTED RACES. THERE'S CERTAINLY A LOT OF APPEALS AND CASES GOING, I GUESS TO THE SUPREME COURT. AND VARIETY OF OTHER THINGS GOING ON, INCLUDING HERE NOW IN GEORGIA A HAND RECOUNT. I THINK WE JUST HAVE TO WAIT. WE HAVE TO PUT OUR TRUST IN THE LORD. WE HAVE TO KNOW THE HOLY SPIRIT WILL GUIDE US NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS AND THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT IN THAT GUIDANCE ALWAYS CAN BRING GOOD OUT OF EVERY SINGLE SOLITARY RESULT. THERE'S NO QUESTION ABOUT IT. OUR LADY IS ALSO ACTIVE IN ALL OF THESE THINGS. I PUT MY TRUST IN THE LORD AND I PUT -- I ASK FOR OUR LADY'S HELP AND I JUST COMPLETELY MOTOR FORWARD. I'M NOT LOOKING BACK. I MOTOR FORWARD AND KEEP DOING WHAT I CAN DO TO HELP AS BEST I CAN FROM MY LITTLE PORTION OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD THAT THE LORD HAS GRACIOUSLY BROUGHT TO THE EARTH. >> IT LOOKS LIKE, AT LEAST LOOKING OVER THE COUNTRY, AT LEAST IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES AND OTHER PLACES WHERE THERE HAVE BEEN SOME POSITIVE GAINS, PRO-LIFE WISE. AT LEAST WE CAN THANK THE LORD GNAR. >> EXACTLY. YOU KNOW, WE CAN BASICALLY AWAIT WHAT'S GOING TO BE TAKING PLACE POLITICALLY, BUT KEEP PRAYING. THAT'S THE MAIN THING. JUST KEEP PRAYING THAT THE CAUSE OF PRO-LIFE, THAT THE HOLOCAUST WILL END IN SOME WAY AND THAT WE CAN BEGIN TO LOOK FOR A BRIGHTER FUTURE FOR OUR YOUNG PEOPLE, FOR FAMILIES AND OF COURSE FOR RELIGION AND RELIGIOUS LIBERTY IN THIS COUNTRY. >> RIGHT. NOW THE OTHER BIG THING OBVIOUSLY INSIDE THE CHURCH THAT BASICALLY DROPPED WITHIN THE LAST COUPLE OF DAYS IS THE McCARRICK REPORT THAT'S BEEN TWO YEARS IN THE MAKING. IT WAS RECENTLY RELEASED DEALING WITH KIND OF LIKE WHAT DID THE CHURCH KNOW AND WHEN DID THEY KNOW IT ABOUT THE FORMER CARDINAL McCARRICK'S ACTIVITIES AND HOW DOES SOMEBODY LIKE HIM SEEM TO MOVE TO SUCH HEIGHTS AND BECOME SUCH A POWER BROKER. HAVE YOU HAD A CHANCE TO LOOK IT A ON REFLECT ON IT? I HAVE. I CAN SEE POPE JOHN PAUL II, ST. JOHN PAUL II RECEIVED A GOOD PORTION OF THE BLAME SEEMINGLY FOR WHAT HAS OCCURRED IN THE PROMOTION OF McCARRICK AND THERE'S NO DOUBT THAT POPE JOHN PAUL DID PROMOTE THEN ARCHBISHOP McCARRICK TO CARDINAL. THE CIRCUMSTANCES BEHIND IT ARE COMPLEX. I KNOW POPE JOHN PAUL ACTUALLY DID WANT TO PREVENT THAT FROM OCCURRING WHEN HEAD RECEIVED A LETTER FROM THE ARCHBISHOP OF ENOCH RELATING TO RUMORS. >> CARDINAL O'CONNOR. >> YEAH, CARDINAL O'CONNOR RELRELATE TO RUMORS. HE STOPPED THE DECISION TO MAKE McCARRICK PROMOTED BUT ON THE ASSURANCE OF OTHER BISHOPS AND McCARRICK HIMSELF WHO SWORE AT THAT TIME -- AT THAT TIME IT WASN'T REALLY KNOWN HE HAD A TENDENCY TOWARD LYING, PERHAPS EVEN PATHOLOGICAL LYING, CERTAINLY ST. JOHN PAUL DID NOT KNOW THAT. YOU KNOW, I THINK HE REALLY TRUSTED THAT SWORN STATEMENT FROM CARDINAL McCARRICK, AT THAT TIME TO BE CARDINAL McCARRICK AND HE TRUSTED THE BISHOPS WHO APPARENTLY EITHER DIDN'T KNOW OR OBVIOUSLY WERE COVERING FOR PERHAPS McCARRICK AND WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE. YOU KNOW, ALL THE LIES, IF I CAN PUT IT THAT WAY, OR THE COVER-UPS, MISLED ST. JOHN PAUL II. I THINK HE BELIEVED IT. HE WAS USED TO OPERATING IN A COMMUNIST COUNTRY WHERE EVERY TIME SOME CLERIC WAS GOING TO BE PROMOTED A COMMUNIST REGIME WOULD PUT OUT A WRATH OF REPORTS THAT THIS GUY WAS GUILTY OF THIS AND THAT SCANDAL AND EVERYBODY KNEW THEY WERE ALL FALSE. SO HE BASICALLY DISCOUNTED THE RUMORS BECAUSE OF HIS BACKGROUND. HE DISCOUNTED THE RUMORS BECAUSE OF THE INFORM BISHOPS AND SWORN TESTIMONY ON FROM McCARRICK. HE CHANGED HIS MIND AND PROMOTED HIM. IT'S COMPLEX. NOT SAYING THAT MAYBE SOME GREATER SHREWDNESS SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN THERE, BUT I'M IN THE FIRST ROW OF PEOPLE WHOSE NOT VERY SHREWD. I CAN SEE MYSELF BEING IN THE SAME POSITION GOING, GEE WHIZ, YOU KNOW, ALL OF THESE BISHOPS ARE SAYING HE'S OKAY. THESE RUMORS ARE MALICIOUS. HE'S SWEARING UP AND DOWN THE RUMORS ARE MALICIOUS. I HAVE GROWN UP IN A COMMUNIST COUNTRY WHERE ALL OF THESE THINGS HAVE HAPPENED. GEE WHIZ, MAYBE HE IS INNOCENT AND I'M PERSECUTING THIS INNOCENT GUY ON THE BASIS OF RUMORS. I CAN SEE MYSELF KIND OF GOING, YIKES, WHAT WOULD I DO? I'M NOT SO SURE. I MIGHT HAVE SHOT THE GUY AT SUNRISE. NOW, OF COURSE, IN HINDSIGHT, WHICH IS AL 20/20. THERE WERE COVER-UPS AND LIES AND REALLY LOTS OF LIES. POOR ST. JOHN PAUL, I THINK HE TRUSTED PEOPLE A WHOLE LOT, AS I TEND TO DO. SO, I KIND OF -- I GUESS I HAVE SOME -- I DON'T WANT TO LAY ALL OF THE BLAME AT HIS DOORSTEP. >> ABSOLUTELY NOT. RIGHT. >> YEAH. >> UNFORTUNATELY -- AND WE CERTAINLY HOPE THE DOCUMENT IS WRITTEN WITH THAT INTENTION. IT ALWAYS SEEM SOMETIMES WITH THESE REPORTS THAT COME OUT FROM OTHER AGENCIES IN CORPORATE AMERICA AND THE GOVERNMENT THAT IT IS ALWAYS PEOPLE WHO ARE GONE WHO SUDDENLY SEEM TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR EVERYTHING THAT WENT WRONG AND THE PEOPLE STILL HERE ARE SOMEHOW ABSOLVED OF ANY RESPONSIBILITY. LIKE YOU SAID, IT'S HINDSIGHT. YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT ALL OF THE INFORMATION WAS AT THE TIME. THE UNDERSTANDING -- ALSO, I HATE TO SAY IT -- BUT TALKING ABOUT SLIGHTLY AFTER 2000, POPE JOHN PAUL II HAD ALREADY STARTED TO DETERIORATE. YOU ARE ALSO DEALING WITH A SITUATION WITH HIS OWN HEALTH ISSUES. LIKE YOU SAID, INFORMATION GIVEN TO YOU, YOU CAN ONLY GAUGE ON WHAT YOU KNOW. UNFORTUNATELY, I THINK WHAT WE HAVE SEEN NOW IS McCARRICK WASN'T ONLY A PROVERBIAL LIAR. HE WAS A VIRTUAL SOCIOPATH IN THE SENSE HE HAD THE ABILITY TO TELL PEOPLE AND CONVINCE PEOPLE NOT ONLY THAT WHAT HE WAS SAYING WAS ACTUALLY TRUE. >> OH, YEAH. NOT ON THAT HE SWORE TO IT. LOOK AT THAT AND YOU GO, WELL, WOW. IF YOU HAVE ALL OF THAT -- IF YOU ARE FACING ALL OF THAT, THE LAST THING YOU WANT DO IS PERSECUTE AN INNOCENT PERSON. AT THE SAME TIME, I ALSO AGREE, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE REAL REPUTATIONS AND SAFETY OF INDIVIDUALS THAT ARE AT STAKE. WHAT DO YOU DO? YOU ARE JUST WRACKED. THERE ARE REALLY DIFFICULT DECISIONS. I COULD SEE MYSELF LOOKING AT THAT, SEEING A PERSON THAT IS ALMOST PATHOLOGICAL, SO CONVINCING. >> RIGHT. >> SWEARING UP AND DOWN AND THEN THESE BISHOPS SAY THE RUMORS ARE WRONG OR EXAGGERATED. I CAN SEE MYSELF GOING MAYBE I'M DEAD WRONG ON THIS AND CHANGING MY MIND. I THINK I COULD HAVE DONE EXACTLY WHAT ST. JOHN PAUL DID. I'M NOT A SHREWD GUY, THOUGH. I DON'T THINK HONESTLY ST. JOHN PAUL WAS A SHREWD GUY. HE WAS A VERY GOOD -- HE KNEW HOW TO DEAL WITH THE RUSSIANS. I'LL SAY THAT. HE KNEW HOW TO DEAL WITH THE POLITICAL SITUATION BUT MAYBE ON THIS ACCOUNT, YOU KNOW, MAYBE THAT SHREWDNESS WAS NOT THERE. MORE OF AN INNOCENCE, HONESTLY AND WE HAVE SEEN THAT ON MANY OCCASIONS WITH VERY GOOD LEADERS. SOMETIMES THE HOLY ONES DON'T SEE THE EVIL LURKING BENEATH. THAT'S CERTAINLY THE CASE IN LITERATURE. >> ALSO, IN A WORLD NOW INUNDATED BY THE WORD MERCY, WHICH WE HEAR ABOUT ALL THE TIME, WHICH IS IMPORTANT WHEN WE GO BACK AND SAY IT WAS A MERCIFUL DECISION TO DO. IT'S INTERESTING AS I GO BACK AND THIS IS JUST DOUG KECK TALKING WHO DOESN'T REALLY KNOW VERY MUCH AS MOST PEOPLE HAVE GATHERED BY NOW. THE IDEA IN THIS CASE IT IS ALWAYS INTERESTING WHEN THEY COME OUT THAT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE STILL AROUND ALWAYS SEEM TO NOT BE PARTICULARLY TO BLAME AND IT'S ALWAYS PEOPLE IN THE PAST OR THE PEOPLE IN OPPOSITION TO THOSE WHO ARE PUTTING OUT THE REPORT WHO SEEM TO BE TO BLAME. I THINK WHAT THE BOTTOM LINE IS, YOU CAN ARGUE THAT THE CHURCH IS TO BLAME PERIOD THROUGHOUT. MADE MISTAKES AND WE ALL HAVE TO PRAY, YOU KNOW, FOR THE BEST TO GO FORWARD AND REALIZE THESE THINGS CAN'T BE ALLOWED TO HAPPEN. THEY HAVE TO BE SEEN IN THE LIGHT OF NOT JUST THE IDEA THAT IT ONLY BECOMES A PROBLEM WHEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT KIDS. IT SEEMS AT SOME LEVEL BECAUSE IT'S ADULTS OR SEMINARIANS INVOLVED THAT THERE'S THIS KIND OF SENSE OF WHERE, WELL, THAT'S NOT QUITE AS BAD. WELL, THAT KIND OF GIVES YOU AN IDEA WHAT KIND OF CULTURE IS FLOATING AROUND IN THE HALLWAYS OF THE CHURCH. >> ALSO, WHEN ST. JOHN PAUL WAS SEPARATING HERE, YOU HAVE PREWITH 2002 CULTURE AND POST 2002 CULTURE. AND OBVIOUSLY, IN THE POST 2002 CULTURE IN THE UNITED STATES DIDN'T QUITE MAKE ITS WAY OVER TO THE INTERNATIONAL CHURCH QUITE AS FAST AS IT DID OVER HERE. ALSO, YOU KNOW, THAT'S ONE PROBLEM. THE SECOND PROBLEM, I THINK, IS CONSIDERABLE -- WHAT I WOULD CALL TRUST AMONG THE CLERICAL FRATERNITY, I DON'T KNOW THEMSELVES. I THINK THERE WAS A GREAT DEAL OF TRUST. I THINK THERE WAS COVER-UP. DON'T GET ME WRONG. I'M NOT SAYING THERE WASN'T COVER-UP. THERE WAS PROBABLY COVER-UP BUT I THINK ALSO TRUST. IN THE CASE OF ST. JOHN PAUL, I THINK THERE REALLY WAS TRUST IN WHAT THESE OTHER BISHOPS WERE TELLING HIM. SO, AS I SAID, TODAY IS A DIFFERENT WORLD. WE'VE SEEN EVERYTHING IN LIGHT OF THESE ALLEGATIONS AND IT MAKES HINDSIGHT SO MUCH BETTER THAN FORESIGHT OR EVEN PRESENT SIGHT. ANYWAY, YOU KNOW, I DON'T MAKE EXCUSES BUT YOU CAN SEE HOW THE MISTAKES WERE MADE IF YOU TRY TO GO BACK IN TIME AND TRY TO RELIVE IT FROM THE VANTAGE POINT OF THAT TIME PERIOD. >> RIGHT. AS YOU POINT OUT SO WELL, 2002 WAS SUCH A HALLMARK DATE. THE APPOINTMENT HAPPENED IN 2000. IT IS ALSO REINFORCING THE FACT THAT THERE STILL WASN'T QUITE THIS LEVEL OF HYPER SENSITIVITY THAT WE MIGHT HAVE TODAY APPROPRIATELY. >> OH, YEAH. EVEN WITH THE 2002 DALLAS CHARTER, RIGHT, TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENED. THE BISHOP'S RESPONSIBILITY LINES WERE REMOVED FROM THE DALLAS CHARTER BY WHOM? ARCHBISHOP McCARRICK OR CARDINAL McCARRICK AT THAT POINT. CARDINAL McCARRICK REMOVED THOSE LINES FROM THE DALLAS CHARTER. THE PRIESTS WHO ARE RESPONSIBLE BUT THE ARCHBISHOPS, THEY WERE LIFTED FROM RESPONSIBILITY TO THE DALLAS CHARTER PROVISIONS. THAT'S ALL BEEN RECTIFIED SINCE, BUT IT WAS THEODORE McCARRICK THAT REMOVED THAT LANGUAGE, BELIEVE IT OR NOT. HE ALREADY KNEW WHAT HE WAS DOING. AS I SAID, THERE WAS A LOT OF STUFF THERE THAT HE WAS ALLOWED TO GET AWAY WITH, WHICH HE WOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO GET AWAY WITH TODAY. >> RIGHT. AND CERTAINLY THE INTERPRETATION, AT LEAST ONE INTERPRETATION OF READING THE REPORT AND UNDERSTANDING HISTORY IS UNDER BENEDICT HE WAS SOMEWHAT PUT TO THE SIDE AND NOT QUITE OFFICIALLY SUPPRESSED BUT PUT TO THE SIDE AND WITH BENEDICT'S CHANGE HE SEEMED TO RE-EMERGE WHETHER THAT WAS OFFICIALLY OR UNOFFICIALLY BUT HE SEEMED TO RE-EMERGE. PEOPLE SHOULD TAKE THAT INTO ACCOUNT WHEN UNDERSTANDING THE DYNAMICS OF THE STORY. >> THAT'S CORRECT. >> I'D INVITE PEOPLE TO CHECK OUT THE WORLD OVER THIS WEEK. I KNOW RAYMOND AND HIS TEAM WILL BE TALKING ABOUT THE REPORT IN DEPTH, I'M SURE, SO PEOPLE CAN CHECK THAT OUT. LET'S MOVE ON TO SOME QUESTIONS THAT WE HAVE GOTTEN IN RECENTLY. >> SURE. >> ON ONE LEVEL THEY ARE NOT HAVING TO DO WITH THE ELECTION, WHICH IS NICE IN SOME WAYS. SO, DEAR FATHER SPITZER, I'M TOTALLY AGAINST ABORTION. HOWEVER, I THINK IF MANY DON'T JOIN IN THE PRO LIFE FIGHT BECAUSE OF FEAR. GOOD CHRISTIANS ARE AFRAID TO MAKE THEIR POSITION KNOWN FOR FEAR OF LOSING FEMME LOSE RELAT. THIS IS AMOSS. >> I THINK THAT'S THAT IS THE TRUTH. WHEN WE LOOK AT THE NAZI HOLOCAUST, THERE WAS A WONDERFUL BUT A TRAGIC STATEMENT MADE BY I BELIEVE A LUTHERAN PASTOR. I'M PARAPHRASING FROM MEMORY BUT BASICALLY HE TALKS ABOUT THEY CAME FOR THE UNIONIST BUT I WASN'T A UNIONIST. I LET THAT GO. AND THEN THEY CAME FOR THE COMMUNIST AND I WASN'T A COMMUNIST. SO I LET THAT GO. AND THEN THEY CAME FOR THE IF JEWISH PEOPLE. I WASN'T JEWISH. SO I LET THAT GO. FINALLY, THEY CAME FOR ME. BUT THERE WAS NO ONE ELSE AROUND TO HELP ME. SO, YOU KNOW, I WAS TAKEN. SO THE POINT, OF COURSE, IS YEAH, WE SHOULD HAVE COURAGE. MORAL COURAGE IS PROBABLY ONE OF THE THINGS THAT OUR LORD CALLS US TO. IT'S A VERY DIFFICULT THING. IT MEANS ACCEPTIG THE CROSS. IT MAY MEAN ALIENATION FROM OUR FAMILY AND OUR FRIENDS. SOMETIMES, WHEN YOU ARE DEALING WITH A HOLOCAUST, WHICH I THINK ABORTION IS, I THINK YOU REALLY HAVE TO BE BLUNT AND STATE THE TRUTH. BUT YOU CAN DO IT DIPLOMATICALLY, NOT MEANLY. YOU CAN DO IT WITH QUESTIONS, WHICH IS HOW I DO IT. I JUST SAY, WAIT A MINUTE HERE. WANT WHAT ABOUT THIS OR THAT OR WHAT DO YOU THINK. IN LIGHT OF CURRENT GENOMICS, THERE'S NO QUESTION WHAT YOU HAVE HERE IS A COMPLETE, UNIQUE, HUMHUMAN GENOME. IT IS A METABOLIZING ORGANISM WHOSE DEVELOPMENT AND GENETICS AND METABOLISM ARE DISTINCT FROM HIS OR HER MOTHER. THIS IS PRETTY CLEARLY A HUMAN BEING AT THE STAGE OF A SINGLE-CELLED ZYGOTE. ATTACHED OR UNATTACHED IT IS BASICALLY A HUMAN BEING. YOU CAN MAKE ALL OF THE SOPHISTICATAL DISTINCTIONS YOU% WANT. IT IS A HUMAN BEING BUT NOT A HUMAN PERSON. WELL, FOR 2,000 YEARS THERE'S NO DISTINCTION BETWEEN A HUMAN BEING AND A PERSON AND SUDDENLY WHEN ROE V. WADE MOVES FORWARD THERE'S A DISTINCTION. THERE'S ONLY TWO TIMES IN HISTORY WHEN THE DISTINCTION HAS BEEN MADE BETWEEN HUMAN BEING AND PERSON. FIRST IS IN 1550, WHEN THE SLAVE TRADERS SAID, OKAY, THEY ARE HUMAN BEINGS BUT THEY ARE NOT PERSONS. THEY ARE SUBHUMAN. SO, THEREFORE, WE CAN TREAT THEM AS PROPERTY. CHATTEL, PROPERTY, SLAVES, PROPERTY RATHER THAN PERSONS. SO, OF COURSE, THAT WAS THE FIRST BASIC DISTINCTION. THAT GOT RECTIFIED AFTER THE CIVIL WAR AND, OF COURSE, IT WAS PROHIBITED IN THE FUTURE TO TREAT A HUMAN BEING LIKE PROPERTY. AND NOW WE TURN AROUND IN ROE V. WADE AND HAVE DONE THE EXACT SAME THING. WE HAVE MADE THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN HUMAN BEING AND PERSON. WE HAVE MADE THIS HUMAN BEING THE PROPERTY OF THE MOTHER TO DISPOSE OF AS SHE CHOOSES. SO, ESSENTIALLY YOU HAVE A CHATTEL SLAVE AGAIN. IT IS IN UTERO, BUT THE DECLINE FROM PERSON TO PROPERTY, SAME LOGIC, SAME SPEWOUS DISTINCTION BETWEEN HUMAN BEING AND PERSON. WE HAVE TO STOP THIS STUFF BUT YOU HAVE TO COURAGEOUSLY CALL IT OUT. I HATE TO SAY IT IN YOUR FAMILY AND SO FORTH BUT YOU HAVE TO CALL IT OUT IN POLITICS AND THE COURTS. YOU HAVE TO STOP IT. IT CAN'T -- WE CAN'T BE TREATING HUMAN BEINGS LIKE PROPERTY. I DON'T CARE WHO THEY ARE. WHAT CIRCUMSTANCES THEY ARE IN, WHETHER THEY HAVE GREEN SKIN OR WHITE SKIN OR RED SKIN. WHETHER THEY HAVE AN IQ OF 160 OR AN IQ OF 60. IT DOESN'T MATTER. WE HAVE TO STOP THIS IDEA THAT PERSONS ARE PROPERTY. THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT'S BEING DONE. CALL IT OUT. DO IT NICELY. DO IT RESPECTFULLY. YOU CAN DO IT WITH GOOD OLD SOCRATIC QUESTIONING. BUT WHATEVER YOU DO, KEEP DOING IT. I DON'T KNOW HOW ELSE WE CAN STOP A HOLOCAUST IN THIS CULTURE. I WILL TELL YOU ONE THING, ALWAYS HOLOCAUST BACK UP AND IT MAKES FOR AN EVER DARKENING, MORE CRUEL CULTURE, A MORE CALLOUSED ATTITUDE TOWARD LIFE. THE ENCYCLICAL BY ST. PAUL, THE GOSPEL OF LIFE, WHICH IS SO IMPORTANT TO LIFE MOVEMENT BUT WHAT HE SAW CLEARLY IS IF YOU START PERMITTING THESE THINGS AND THEY BEGIN TO HAPPEN ON BLOCK, EN MASSE, YOU SEE THEM HAPPENING, ALL OF A SUDDEN IT BACKS UP TO THE CULTURE. YOU HAVE A CALLOUSNESS ABOUT LIFE THAT PERTAINS TO THE ELDERLY AND THEN A CALLOUSNESS ABOUT LIFE THAT PERTAINS TO PEOPLE OVER 70 YEARS OLD OR A CALLOUSNESS ABOUT LIFE FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE A DISEASE OR PEOPLE WHO HAVE SOME INTELLECTUAL CHALLENGES. WHATEVER THE CASE MAYBE. IT IS ALWAYS, ALWAYS BACKING UP INTO THOSE WHO ARE WEAKNESS, WHO NEED THE SUPPORT, WHO ARE ALWAYS THE MOST LOVED PEOPLE BY THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH AND ELEVATED TO A TRUE STATUS BECAUSE OF CHRIST'S GOOD EXAMPLE. OF COURSE, CHRIST MANDATED TO US TO BE RESPECTFUL OF ALL LIFE. SO, THIS IS -- I THINK, AMOS, I HATE TO TELL YOU THIS BUT I THINK WE HAVE TO BEAR THE CROSS AND SAY THE TRUTH. ONLY -- JUSTICE AND PEACE WILL ONLY OCCUR IN A SOCIETY WHERE TRUTH CAN BE TOLD AND RIGHT NOW WE'RE INTO A CULTURE OF NO SPEAK. WE'RE INTO A CULTURE OF EUPHEMISMS, A CULTURE THAT IS BASICALLY FILLED WITH EVERY IMAGINABLE LIE. OF COURSE IT'S UNDER THE PRETENSE OF BEING JUST HONEST. IT'S NOT HONEST. CALL OUT THE TRUTH, AMOS. I GUESS WE HAVE TO TAKE THE CONSEQUENCES AS A WHOLE, EITHER AS A CHURCH, AS A PEOPLE OR WE HAVE TO TAKE THE CONSEQUENCES. >> SOMETIMES IT SEEMS LIKE IN THE CHURCH AND I THINK PRO LIFE PEOPLE WHO GO OUT AND NO MATTER WHAT ARE THE MOST COURAGEOUS ONES BUT YOU GET THE SENSE SOMETIMES OUT THERE WITH THE SEAMLESS GARMENT EFFECT THAT NOT ONLY DOES IT TURN OUT THAT EVERYTHING IS KIND OF EQUAL BUT IN SOME WAYS THE PRO-LIFE ABORTION ISSUE IS REALLY ALMOST LESS IMPORTANT THAN SOME OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT HAVE TO DO WITH THE POOR OR THINGS LIKE THAT, AS IF THEY ARE IN CONFLICT WITH ONE ANOTHER. YOU HAVE PEOPLE WHO MIGHT SAY, YOU KNOW, I GO TO MY PARISH EVERY WEEK. I CAN COUNT ON ONE HAND HOW MANY TIMES I'VE HEARD A PRO-LIFE ABORTION-RELATED SERMON BUT I CAN'T COUNT HOW MANY TIMES I HAVE HEARD SERMONS ON OTHER ISSUES THAT LET'S SAY ARE PART OF THE SEAMLESS GARMENT APPROACH. >> ALL OF THESE ISSUES ARE VERY IMPORTANT, NO QUESTION ABOUT IT. WE DO HAVE TO BE CONCERNED WITH THE ISSUE OF IMMIGRATION AND POVERTY. ABSOLUTELY. THEY ARE IMPORTANT. HOWEVER, YOU DO HAVE A RANKING HERE OF IMPORTANCE. AS I SAID, WHEN YOU ALLOW KILLING TO OCCUR, OR IN THE CASE OF 100 YEARS AGO. YOU ALLOW SLAVERY TO 'CUR, IT WILL BACK INTO OTHER ISSUES YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS. IF YOU ALLOW HUMAN BEINGS TO BE KILLED, IF YOU ALLOW HUMAN BEINGS TO BE TREATED AS PROPERTY, DO NOT THINK FOR A MOMENT THIS IS NOT GOING TO JUST SPREAD LIKE A VIRUS. IT'S NOT GOING TO KEEP GOING TO OTHER DOMAINS OF SOCIETY AND OTHER ISSUES. IF YOU DON'T THINK THAT ALLOWING HUMAN BEINGS TO BE TREATED AS PROPERTY AND TREATED IS A MARILY, IF YOU DON'T THINK IT WILL SPREAD TO THE LIVES OF POOR PEOPLE, IT WILL. IT WILL SPREAD TO THE LIVES OF IMMIGRANTS. IT WILL. IT WILL MOVE INTO THE DIMENSION OF INTERNATIONAL POLITICS AND ECONOMICS. IT CERTAINLY WILL. SO ALL OF THESE OTHER ISSUES, IMPORTANT AS THEY ARE, YOU DO HAVE TO RANK ISSUES. YOU HAVE TO DO THAT. SOME ISSUES ARE JUST PLAIN MORE SERIOUS THAN OTHERS. I HAVE USED THE EXAMPLE ALREADY OF HOW MANY GERMAN PEOPLE KIND OF SAID, WELL, YOU KNOW, I'VE HEARD THESE RUMORS ABOUT THE GENOCIDE AND SO FORTH, BUT GEE WHIZ, THE GERMAN ARMY IS WINNING AND GEE, WE HAVE A LOT OF JOBS COMING AROUND NOW. FINALLY, OF COURSE, THE BOMBING STARTS IN GERMANY. FINALLY, OF COURSE, THEY START TO LOSE THE WAR. SUDDENLY, IT IS APPARENT. BY THAT TIME THEY ARE SO CONVINCED OF HITLER'S GREAT STRENGTH AND ALL HE HAS DONE TO ELEVATE THE GERMAN PEOPLE THAT THEY BASICALLY SORT OF BELIEVE THE LIES ABOUT THEM. THEY WERE ALMOST HYPNOTIZED. HE'S REALLY AN OKAY GUY. BY THAT TIME IT WAS WELL KNOWN BY MANY, MANY PEOPLE. NOT ALL OF THE GERMAN PEOPLE FOR SURE KNEW WHAT WAS GOING ON WITH HITLER BUT A LOT OF THEM DID AND A LOT WERE TURNING A BLIND EYE. IZEEN HOWER MARKED EVERYBODY THROUGH AND SAID YOU MEAN THIS IS HAPPENING UNDER YOUR NOSES AND EYES AND YOU DIDN'T EVEN TAKE NOTICE OF IT? >> ABSOLUTELY. >> IT'S THERE. PEOPLE THEY DO, THEY CONVINCE THEMSELVES. >> ISN'T THAT THE THING, THOUGH. >> HE'S AN OKAY GUY. >> YOU KIND OF BUY INTO THE LIE AND THEN THERE'S THE GUILT INVOLVED WITH THE LIE. AND THEN SOMEBODY SAYS IT'S ACTUALLY A LIE. NOW YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH HOW COULD THAT BE TRUE? THAT CAN'T BE TRUE? IT IS HORRIBLE. HOW COULD I HAVE AGREED TO SOMETHING SO HORRIBLE. IT IS A CIRCULAR LOGIC WHERE IT EXPECT TRUE. >> NO. I HAVE TO TELL YOU I SEE IT ALL THE TIME. I SAY JUST A MINUTE HERE. WE HAVE A GUY WHO S SAYS I BELIE IN ABORTION UP TO THE MOMENT OF BIRTH. I CAN TAKE THIS PERFECTLY VIABLE HUMAN BEING AND CRUSH THEIR HEAD AND DISMEMBER THEM AND ROOT THEM OUT. A LITTLE BABY. HE'S BASICALLY SAYING I AGREE THAT THIS IS OKAY. OH, THERE MIGHT BE -- WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL THAT THE WOMAN REALLY WANTS THIS AND SO FORTH AND SO ON BUT BASICALLY UNLIMITED ABORTION EVEN OF A THIRD TRIMESTER INFANT. YOU SAY THIS GUY BELIEVED IN THIS, BUT I VOTED FOR THAT GUY. SO, I'M JUST SAYING, YOU HAVE TO BE CAREFUL HERE BECAUSE IF YOU SAY THIS IS OKAY BY ME E POLITICALLY OKAY. I DON'T BUY THE ARGUMENT THAT MY CONSCIENCE, I DON'T THOLED BUT POLITICALLY I GOT TO LET PEOPLE BE FREE TO KILL THEIR OWN NINE MONTH TERM INFANTS COMING OUT OF THE WOMB. I GOT TO LET THEM HAVE THEIR WAY. WELL, YOU KNOW, THAT'S THE LOGIC UPON WHICH MOST GENOCIDES ARE BUILT. ALL I CAN SAY IS IT'S A HORRIBLE THING INDEED. YOU'LL GET WHAT YOU VOTE FOR. EYES OPEN. EYES WIDE OPEN. NOT CLOSED SHUT. >> BIBLICALLY, YOU REAP WHAT YOU SOW. AND WE HAVE TO TAKE A BREAK. SO MUCH TO TALK ABOUT. WE WILL CONTINUE WITH THE QUESTIONS AFTER THIS AS WE TAKE A BREAK HERE IN FATHER SPITZER'S UNIVERSE. THERE'S A LOT TO DISCUSS. STAY WITH US. [MUSIC] [MUSIC] >>> WELCOME BACK TO FATHER SPITZER'S UNIVERSE. I WANT TO REMIND EVERYBODY YOU CAN CELEBRATE YOUR CATHOLIC FAITH WITH THESE DOG MA LIVES LOUDLY WITHIN ME T-SHIRTS THAT ARE FLYING OFF THE SHELVES IN HONOR OF AMY CONEY BARRETT. WE THOUGHT WE WOULD PUT THOSE OUT THERE. THEY ARE A GREAT THING FOR YOU TO WEAR OUT IN PUBLIC. AND LET PEOPLE KNOW WHERE YOU STAND. SOMETIMES FOR ALL OF US WE CAN'T ALWAYS SPEAK UP PERSONALLY BUT BY DOING IT WITH BUMPER STICKERS OR THINGS THAT WE WEAR, IT SPEAKS VOLUMES WITHOUT SAYING ANYTHING. OUR SHOW TOPIC IS CHRIST VS. SATAN IN OUR DAILY LIVES: THE COSMIC STRUGGLE IT IS AVAILABLE FROM THE EWTN RELIGIOUS CATALOGUE. WE TURN TO FATHER SPITZER WHO WILL BE EXPLAINING WHY DOUG KECK SAID THAT TO IGNATIUS PRESS. WE HAVE A COUPLE OTHER QUESTIONS. FATHER SPITZER, THE LEFT MOVED AWAY FROM THE TERM PRO CHOICE AND CLAIMS TO BE PROTECTING WOMEN'S REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH. WHO CAN BE AGAINST PROTECTING WOMEN'S REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH BUT WHAT DOES A HEALTHY REPRODUCTIVE SYSTEM DO OR MEAN? GOOD REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH. A LOT OF THINGS GO WRONG WITH ABORTION AND ABORTION HAVE A LOT OF LONG-TERM EFFECTS. SOME OF THEM PHYSICAL BUT MANY OF THEM PSYCHOLOGICAL AND EMOTIONAL. I WOULD NOT SAY EQUATING ABORTION WITH REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH IS A GOOD STATEMENT. I'D SAY IT IS EXCEEDINGLY MISLEADING STATEMENT. BE THAT AS IT MAY, THE FACT IS IT'S ANOTHER EUPHEMISM. THAT'S WHAT WE DO NOW. WE RECONTEXTUALIZE THINGS. ABORTION IS THE KILLING OF AN INNOCENT HUMAN BEING. CALL IT FOR WHAT IT IS. YOU REALLY DISMEMBER A HUMAN BEING. THE HUMAN BEING KNOWS IT'S IN TROUBLE. THE LITTLE BABY, YOU KNOW, AS SO ACCURATELY PORTRAYED IN SEVERAL MOVIES, KNOWS IT IS BEING SOUGHT AFTER. IT'S MOVING AWAY. IT FEELS THE PAIN. AS IT IS DISMEMBERED, RIGHT, ITS HEAD IS BEING CRUSHED, IT'S CLEAR WHAT'S GOING ON HERE. THERE'S NO QUESTION IT IS A KILLING OF AN INNOCENT HUMAN BEING. I KNOW PEOPLE WILL SAY THAT I HAVE BEEN INSENSITIVE IN PORTRAYING IT SO GROTESQUELY ON THE SHOW. HOWEVER, I MUST TELL YOU AT THE SAME TIME, THE INSENSITIVITY IS ACTUALLY THE TRUTH IT THAT IS GOING ON. WE HAVE TO BRING IT OUT OF THE CLOSET AT SOME POINT. WHEN WILL TRUTH BE ABLE TO RETRUMP SENSITIVITY? THIS IS A FACT. IT NEEDS TO BE TOLD. WE HAVE TO STOP KILLING MILLIONS OF BABIES. THAT'S MY VIEWPOINT. I'M GOING TO BE BLUNT ABOUT IT. I CAN ASSURE YOU OF THIS, REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH -- FIRST OF ALL, THAT'S JUST INACCURATE, EXCEEDINGLY INACCURATE AND SECONDLY IT IS A EUPHEMISM TO GLAZE OVER THE FACT THAT YOU ARE KILLING AN INNOCENT HUMAN BEING AND OFTEN TIMES BY A PAINFUL AND CRUEL METHOD. >> VERY GOOD. ON A SIMILAR PART OF THAT TOPIC, DEAR FATHER SPITZER ONE OF THE COMMON ARGUMENTS USED TO JUSTIFY ABORTION IS MAY BE NECESSARY WHEN A MOTHER'S LIFE IS IN DANGER. AS A MAN HOW CAN I ARGUE THAT SINCE MY LIFE WILL NEVER BE ON THE LINE GIVING BIRTH? LET ME READ THAT AGAIN. IS IT CORRECT TO SAY WELL, THAT THE SACRIFICE OF A WOMAN IS TO MAKE DO TO PREGNANCY COMPLICATIONS. I GUESS HE IS TRYING TO SAY THE IDEA THAT THEY HAVE TO SUFFER THROUGH THAT BECAUSE OF THE BIRTH -- I THINK THE REAL ISSUE IS HOW OFTEN IS THAT EVEN THE CASE? >> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, THERE ARE PREGNANCY COMPLICATIONS. BY AND LARGE, A CAESARIAN SECTION CAN RESOLVE OVER 99% OF THEM. THAT'S THE FIRST THING. I'VE KNOWN PEOPLE WHO ARE REFORMED ABORTION DOCTORS WHO SAID, TESTIFIED I NEVER HAD A CASE WHERE AN ABORTION WAS NECESSARY IN ORDER TO SAVE THE LIFE OF A MOTHER. CAESARIAN SECTION WOULD HAVE BEEN PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE IN ALL OF THE CASES. THESE WERE PEOPLE WHO HAD PERFORMED CONSIDERABLE NUMBER OF THEM. BASICALLY SAID I NEVER SAW A SINGLE ONE. TODAY, THE IDEA THAT YOU HAVE TO PERFORM AN ABORTION FOR THE LIFE OF A MOTHER IS SCANT INDEED. THE IDEA OF A MOTHER MAKING A SACRIFICE TO BRING THE BABY TO TERM, BUT THE WHOLE IDEA BEHIND RIGHTS, HUMAN RIGHTS IS THERE ARE RIGHTS OR FREEDOMS ON THE ONE HAND BUT THERE ARE RESPONSIBILITIES ON THE OTHER. OF COURSE IF YOU WIND UP PREGNANT, WHETHER YOU INTENDED TO BE PREGNANT OR NOT, I HATE TO SAY THIS BUT YOU HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY FOR THIS INDIVIDUAL AND DISTINCTLY METABOLIZING, DISTINCTLY GENETIC, DISTINCTLY DEVELOPING CHILD WITHIN YOUR WOMB. THE GENETIC CONTENT OF THE CHILD IS DIFFERENT FROM YOU, YES. HE HAS SOME OF YOUR GENES. NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT. BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, HE'S ALSO GOT THE FATHER'S GENES IN A UNIQUE COMBINATION OF THOSE GENES. HE IS OBVIOUSLY SEPARATELY METABOLIZING, SEPARATELY DEVELOPING, ET CETERA. THIS PARTICULAR HUMAN BEING, YOU HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEM UNDER THE LAW. THE WHOLE IDEA THAT A WOMAN IS GIVING UP HER PRIVACY RIGHTS, IT'S NOT SHE IS GIVING UP HER PRIVACY RIGHTS IN A VACUUM. WE HAVE ALL SIGNED A SOCIAL CONTRACT IF YOU BUY THE LOCK IN LANGUAGE. BY THE WAY, THAT LANGUAGE COMES FROM THE SOLAMONTE SCHOOL, WHICH WAS A GROUP OF JESUITS WHO FORMULATED THE IDEA OF THE SOCIAL CONTRACT. IT WAS IN THE TEMPERATURE WORDS OF FRANCISCO SUAREZ THAT GAVE RISE AND ARTICULATED INALIEN REASONABLE LIGHTS. WE CAN SEE IT IN JOHN LOCK'S SECOND TREATIES ON GOVERNMENT, ET CETERA. IT IS CLEAR THE SOCIAL CONTRACT THEORY IS THE ONE THAT MAKES A DEMOCRACY WORK BUT IT IS ALSO MAKES INALIENABLE RIGHTS WORK. WE ARE GIVEN RIGHTS. NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT. BUT AT THE SAME MOMENT, THOSE RIGHTS -- WE GIVE SOME OF THEM TO THE STATE TO DO WHAT? TO PROJECT OUR RIGHTS. SO THAT'S WHY, YOU KNOW, A STATE COULD CON CRYPT IN THE CASE OF AN ENEMY ATTACKING FROM WITHOUT. WHY A STATE CAN REGULATE ABORTION BECAUSE, OF COURSE, THE STATE IS CHARGED WITH PROTECTING THE RIGHTS OF THOSE PRE-BORN HUMAN BEINGS. SO THE IDEA THAT WE HAVE RIGHTS THAT ARE 100% AND ABSOLUTELY AUTONOMOUS FROM ANYTHING IS JUST DEAD-O WRONG-O FROM THE WORD GO. WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THE SOCIAL CONTRACT, WE GIVE OVER SOME OF OUR PURE AUTONOMY, OUR PURE FREEDOM, OUR LIBERTIES TO THE STATE TO PROTECT INALIENABLE RIGHTS OF OTHER HUMAN BEINGS, THE RIGHT TO LIFE, LIBERTY AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS. SO THEY ARE SAYING YOUR FREEDOM IS NOT ABSOLUTE. YOUR FREEDOM IS CONDITIONED BY THE RIGHTS OF OTHER PEOPLE. I THINK IT WAS JOHN LOTT'S FAMOUS PHRASE BUT MAY HAVE BEEN OLIVER WENDALL HOLMES. I MIGHT HAVE SAID THIS BUT IN ANY CASE MY FREEDOM LEAVES OFF TO SWING MY FIST WHERE YOUR NOSE BEGINS. I THINK THAT'S A CLEAR CASE AND POINT. THE IDEA OF HAVING AN ABSOLUTE LIBERTY RIGHT IS DEAD WRONG. EVEN JOHN LOCK WHO STARTED WITH THAT IN A STATE OF NATURE THE LIBERTY RIGHT IS ABSOLUTE SAYS BUT IN THE SOCIAL CONTRACT WE HAVE TO RESPECT THE RIGHTS OF OTHERS AND THE HUMAN -- THE PRE-BORN HUMAN BEING HAS RIGHTS. SO, OF COURSE, THEY HAVE TO BE RESPECTED AND THE STATE HAS THE RESPONSIBILITY AND CAN REGULATE YOU TO DO THAT. >> THE SCARY WORLD WE ARE STARTING TO LIVE IN NOW, ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS SAY TO SOMETHING I MIGHT HIT YOU AND YOU MIGHT BE IN TROUBLE. >> OH, YEAH. >> WE'RE NOT EVEN TALKING ACTIONS ANYMORE. WE'RE JUST TALKING ABOUT FEELINGS ABOUT ACTIONS. ONE LAST QUESTION BEFORE WE TALK ABOUT THE BOOK. I KNOW THERE ARE RELIGION OWLS REASONS FOR NOT USING BIRTH CONTROL. WHAT ARE SCIENTIFIC RESOURCES THAT PROVE OR SUGGEST AT THIS TIME CAUSES ABORTIONS? >> THERE ARE TWO KINDS OF BIRTH CONTROL. ONE IS BASICALLY A BIRTH CONTROLLE THAT PREVENTS CONCEPTION. ANOTHER IS CALLED AN ABORTIVE, THIS IS THE MORNING AFTER PILL, SO CALLED. IT TAKES PLACE AFTER CONCEPTION TO BASICALLY KILL THE BEING THAT WAS ALREADY CONCEIVED. IF YOU TAKE ONE OF THOSE, IT'S BASICALLY YOU ARE PERFORMING AN ABORTION ON YOURSELF BY ADMINISTERING SUCH A PILL TO YOURSELF. SO, YOU ARE REALLY KILLING A HUMAN BEING BECAUSE, AS I SAID, THAT SINGLE-CELLED HUMAN ZYGOTE FROM THE MOMENT OF FERTILIZATION IS BASICALLY A HUMAN BEING. IT'S GOT A UNIQUE HUMAN GENOME. THERE WILL BE NO OTHER BEING LIKE IT IN THE WHOLE WORLD. NEVER HAS BEEN ANOTHER BEING LIKE THAT HUMAN BEING. IT IS EXCLUSIVELY A HAO HUMAN BEING. IT IS DEFINITELY IN A SELF DEVELOPING STATE WHERE IT WILL REACH THE TERM, ET CETERA. SO TO PUT ALL OF THIS INTO PERSPECTIVE, PRETTY CLEARLY SOME FORMS OF BIRTH CONTROL KILL THOSE HUMAN BEINGS AND THAT, OF COURSE, WOULD BE AN ABORTION, A MURDER. >> VERY GOOD. LET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR NEW BO "TL AND TRANSCENDENCE: CATHOLICISM BOOKCHRIST VS. SATAN IN OUR DAIY LIVES: THE COSMIC STRUGGLE T. VOLUME ONE OF THE TRILOGY. YOU ARE I TOLKIEN TERRITORY. SO THE FAMOUS QUARTET, OF COURSE, AS WELL AS SO YOU ARE MOVING FROM POETRY INTO LITERATURE WITH THE TRILOGY NOW. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT STRUCK ME BOOK, IN THE BEGINNING YOU SAID IN LOVING MEMORY OF MY MOTHER AND FATHER WHO SHOWED ME THE PATH OUT OF DARKNESS INTO FAITH AND VIRTUE. WHAT IS IT THAT YOU SAW IN YOUR PARENTS THAT REFLECTED IN YOUR MIND FAITH AND VIRTUE? >> FIRST OF ALL, WITH MY MOM, MY MOM WAS A DAILY COM COMMUNICANT. I WOULDN'T BE A JESUIT FOR NOT FOR MY MOTHER SHARING HER FAITH AND HAVING A WISDOM ABOUT THIS FAITH AND A DEEP PERCEPTION OF IT THAT REALLY GOT ME UNDER WAY. HER EXAMPLE WAS CLEAR AND ALSO HER PIETY WAS CLEAR. SOMETIMES SHE HAD BOOKS BY VARIOUS SISTERS AND SAINTS. LITTLE BOOK SHELF IN THE BACK OF HER BED THERE. I COULD SEE WHAT THE BOOKS MEANT TO HER. HER ROSARY WAS PERCHED BACK THERE. ACTUALLY MULTIPLE ROSARIES WERE PERCHED BACK THERE. ALL KINDS OF THINGS. SO, I HAVE TO TELL YOU IT JUST RUBBED OFF ON ME. EVEN WHEN I WAS QUITE YOUNG, YOU KNOW, I REALLY DID ENTERTAIN A VOCATION BECASE SHE WAS SUCH A DEEPLY CONVINCED AND FAITH-FILLED PRAYERFUL PROVIDENCIALLY BELIEVING CATHOLIC THAT I COULDN'T HELP BUT TO SAY THIS IS A PEACEFUL WAY OF LIFE. IT'S A GOOD WAY OF LIFE. THE GOODNESS OF IT, TOO, REALLY MATTERED. YOU KNOW, I COULD LOOK AROUND THE WORLD AND MY AROUND THE WORLD WITH A GREAT DEAL MORE SUSPICION AND A GREAT DEAL SOMETIMES MORE COMPETITIVENESS THAN MY MOM DID. SO, YOU KNOW, I JUST WANTED THAT PART. I WON'T CALL IT AN INNOCENCE BECAUSE I WASN'T INNOCENT BUT I WAS SOMEBODY DESIRING A KIND OF, YOU KNOW, A VIEWPOINT OF LIGHT, A VIEWPOINT OF GOODNESS, A VIEWPOINT THERE WAS HOPE FOR THE WORLD, A VIEWPOINT OF LOVE, A VIEWPOINT OF WHAT COULD BE GOOD. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, I WAS WRACKED WITH A UTILITARIAN DESIRE FOR POWER AND MONEY. MY FAITH KEPT IT UNDER CONTROL. I HAVE TO SAY THERE BUT FOR THE CHURCH, I THINK I COULD HAVE REALLY BEEN ON A WHOLE DIFFERENT PATH. THE CHURCH, THE SACRAMENTS, THE TEACHING OF THE CHURCH, MY MOTHER'S EXAMPLE, IT REALLY SAVED ME. IT REALLY DID. I CAN JUST SEE MYSELF GOING IN A WHOLE DIFFERENT DIRECTION AND VERY ERRATICALLY AND SELFISHLY AND NARCISSISTICALLY, BOMBASTICALLY USING WHATEVER INTELLECTUAL ADVANTAGE I MAY HAVE TO LORD IT OVER PEOPLE. I HAVE DID LORD IT OVER PEOPLE, TOO. I WASN'T A NICE GUY FOR A WHILE. I HAVE TO SAY, I DID LORD IT OVER PEOPLE SOMETIMES. AND PEOPLE I LORDED IT OVER REALLY KNOW THAT. AND I DEEPLY REGRET IT BUT THAT'S WHO I WAS, BUT WHERE I DIDN'T GO, CHRIST AND THE CHURCH BASICALLY SAVED ME. BUT I GOT IT FROM MY MOM. I ABSOLUTELY DID. AND THEN FROM MY DAD, MY DAD WAS A REAL, YOU KNOW, ON THE ONE HAND HE WAS A HARVARD LAWYER TYPE, RAZZLE-DAZZLE IN ONE SENSE AND IN ANOTHER SENSE INNOCENT, DO WHAT IS RIGHT KIND OF GUY. I HAVE TO SAY, I LOVED HIS EXAMPLE. I LOVED HIS DO WHAT'S RIGHT KIND OF AN APPROACH. YOU KNOW, ONE TIME IN THE NINTH GRADE I DID SOMETHING VERY STUPID AND MISCHIEVOUS AND HE BASICALLY DIDN'T WANT TO COME OUT AND PUNISH OR HIT ME. HE JUST DIDN'T TALK TO ME FOR SEVERAL WEEKS. BASICALLY TOLD ME HE WAS ASHAMED OF ME. YOU KNOW, JUST DIDN'T WANT TO HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH ME. THAT SHAME OF MY FATHER WAS LIKE A BULLET IN MY HEAD. IT REALLY BROUGHT ME AROUND. YOU KNOW, ALL THINGS -- THE EXAMPLE OF MY DAD AND HIS DO THE RIGHT THING KIND OF APPROACH IN ALL OF HIS SIMPLICITY. HE WAS VERY SMART WITH THE LOGIC AND HE COULD SAY LET ME SEE IF I HAVE THAT RIGHT. NOW YOU JUST SAID STATEMENT X AND NOW YOU SAID STATEMENT Y BUT IF WE REALLY LOOK AT -- HE DID HAVE THAT, BUT WHEN IT CAME TOLL DOING RITE AND WRONG, SIMPLE MAN TRANSPARENT, LOVELY RIGHTNESS TO HIM. AND THE COMBINATION OF MY MOM AND DAD AND THE GREAT FAITH OF MY MOM AND DAD, JUST SIMPLE BUT INCISIVE WAY OF DOING VIRTUOUS THINGS. I GOT SAVED FROM MYSELF. AS I SAID, THERE'S SOMETHING IN ME, A LUST FOR POWER AND MONEY THAT WAS THERE THAT CHRIST WAS ABLE TO MAYBE RESCUE THE -- MOST OF THE GOODNESS IN ME FROM THE FIRE. I REALLY MEAN THE FIRE. SO, ANYWAY -- THAT'S THE WAY I LOOK AT IT. >> SO FAR YOU HAVE BEEN RESCUED FROM THE FIRES IN THE WEST COAST THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS, TOO. >> BARELY. >> LET'S TALK ABOUT CHRIST VERSUS SATAN IN OUR DAILY LIVES. YOU TALK ABOUT THE FIRST BOOK OF THE TRILOGY. YOU ARE A JESUIT, A HIGHLY EDUCATED MAN. WHAT IS THE STUFF WITH SATAN IN OUR DAILY LIVES? ISN'T THAT A LITTLE MEDIEVAL OR SOMETHING IN THE APPROACH TO THE CHURCH? IS THAT WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON TODAY? >> I HAVE TO TELL YOU WITH ALL OF THE MEDIEVAL NATURE IT'S THE TRUTH. YOU KNOW, WE'RE AVOIDING THE TERM SATAN A BIT TOO MUCH. IN FACT, HE IS SO ACTIVE TODAY. IT'S SO CLEAR. YES, IT'S VERY TRUE THAT SATANISM IS SKYROCKETING THROUGH THE CEILING. POPE FRANCIS HAS POINTED THIS OUT. HE IS TRYING TO GET EXORCISTS IN EVERY SINGLE SOLITARY DIOCESE THROUGHOUT THE WORLD. IT'S A TERRIBLE THING GOING ON. IT IS NOT JUST SATAN AS A CULT, A PURSUIT OF YOUNG PEOPLE IS DRASTICALLY UP, HUGELY UP. IT IS DEPRESSING BUT IT'S NOT JUST THAT. IT'S IN THE CULTURE. IT'S THE EUPHEMISMS, THE LIES THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT. AS I ALWAYS SAY, ABORTION IS THE DEVIL'S GREAT SACRAMENT AND WE ARE DOING IT WITH RECKLESS ABANDON, POLITICIANS WAVING THE FLAG AND SAYING WHAT A GREAT LIBERATION THIS IS. WHO DO YOU THINK IS DOING THIS? OBVIOUSLY, THIS IS NOT GOD. IT'S NOT JESUS. WAKE UP. SO, I JUST DECIDED IT'S TIME. I'M NO INNOCENT. I'M A SINNER. I ADMIT IT. I HAVE ALL KINDS OF PROBLEMS. I'M A TERRIBLE, IMPATIENT PERSON. I KNOW ALL OF THESE THINGS. WHY SHOULD I BE THE ONE WHO TALK ABOUT THE DEVIL. HE GOT HIS GRIP INTO ME, TOO. BUT I WILL TELL YOU ONE THING IF WE DON'T START THINKING HE'S AROUND AND HE'S DOING STUFF AND THE STUFF HE'S DOING IS LEADING PEOPLE STRAIGHT TO HELL. PEOPLE ARE CHOOSING THE DARKNESS, THEY ARE CHOOSING THE EUPHEMISM. THEY ARE CHOOSING TO GO IN THAT DIRECTION. IF WE DON'T START SAYING IT OUTRIGHT. PEOPLE SAY, WELL, YOU KNOW, SPITZER, GOT HAS A SCIENTIFIC -- BUT LOOK HE IS BRINGING IN MEDIEVAL NOTION. I HOPE THEY SAY THAT. I HOPE THEY GO WHY WOULD HE DO THAT? IT SEEMS LIKE A LITTLE OUT OF CHARACTER TO JUST BE TALKING ABOUT THE DEVIL. WHO BELIEVES THAT? WELL, I DO. I CAN TELL YOU, I'VE SEEN IT AND I'VE SEEN HIS ACTIONS AND WHAT HE DOES. I'VE SEEN HIM TAKE OVER PEOPLE. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? HE IS VERY ACTIVE. PEOPLE ARE SLIPPING INTO ACTUAL -- GETTING THEMSELVES IN TO A STATE OF OBSESSION AND EVEN POSSESSION TO A CERTAIN EXTENT. I WANT TO SAY HE IS ACTIVE OUT THERE, BUT, YOU KNOW -- I POINT THAT OUT IN CHAPTER 3 SO THAT -- THE BOOK TAKES ITS OWN SCHEDULE. THE FIRST THING I WANT TO POINT OUT IS, HEY, GOD IS ACTIVE IN THE WORLD, TOO. THAT'S WHY I HAVE THE WHOLE APPENDIX ON THOSE MIRACLES. I HAVE AN APPENDIX ON CONTEMPORARY SCIENTIFICALLY VALIDATED MIRACLES IN THE BOOK. I WANT TO SAY GOD IS ACTIVE. I TALK ABOUT IS THERE ANYTHING TO VISIONS? IS THERE ANYTHING TO HOW THE HOLY SPIRIT WORKS IN OUR LIVES? IS THIS REALLY REAL? OF COURSE IT IS REALLY REAL. I WANTED TO TALK ABOUT THAT AND HOW YOU CAN RECOGNIZE GOD'S PRESENCE IN YOUR OWN LIFE. HOW DOES HE SPEAK TO US? HOW DOES THE HOLY SPIRIT WORK? SHOULD WE BE CAUTIOUS ABOUT PEOPLE WHO SAY THEY HAVE VISIONS OF COURSE WE SHOULD BE CAUTIOUS AND CIRCUMSPECT AND SCIENTIFIC AND SHREWD AND SO FORTH. BUT DO THESE THINGS HAPPEN, YES, THEY HAPPEN. YOU CAN'T -- YOU DON'T WANT TO CANCEL OUT THE TRUTH OF THE SUPER NATURAL BY BEING, AS IT WERE, VESTED IN SUSPICION THAT SAYS NOTHING LIKE THAT CAN HAPPEN. THE SUPERNATURAL IS EVER PRESENT IN OUR LIVES. THE SUPER NATURAL IS HERE AND THE GOOD SIDE OF THE SUPER NATURAL. I THOUGHT I WOULD TALK ABOUT THAT FIRST AND PUT THE MIRACLES IN THE APPENDIX IN THE BACK. THE SECOND CHAPTER DEALS WITH, OKAY, CHRIST HAVING VICTORY OVER SATAN. BUT THE LURKING QUESTION. IF CHRIST JESUS DEFEATED SATAN HOW COME HE IS SO POWERFUL TODAY? HUMAN FREEDOM. WE HAVE TO TALK ABOUT THAT. AND THEN THE THIRD THING, IS THE DEVIL REALLY REAL? I DECIDED, I WILL PULL OUT TWO CREDIBLE CASES OF POSSESSION IN EXORCISM THAT HAPPEN. OBVIOUSLY THE ROBBIE MANNHEIM CASE. THE DIARY IS AVAILABLE. TOM WROTE ABOUT THIS IN THE BOOK "POSSESSED." IT IS WELL FOOTNOTED. THE DIARY IS THERE AND AN APPENDIX AT THE END. HE'S DONE GOOD WORK ON THE ARCHIVES OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH TO TAKE A LOOK AT THE BACKGROUND FOR THE MANNHEIM POSSESSION. THAT WAS THE DIARY OF THE JESUITS WHO PERFORMED THAT IN ST. LOUIS. THAT DIARY IS NOW PUBLIC. IT'S THERE. IT WAS THE BACKGROUND BEHIND -- REMEMBER THE BOOK THE EXORCIST THAT CAME OUT IN '73 OR '74 WITH WILLIAM PETER, THE BOOK AND THE MOVIE HAD A LOT OF HOLLYWOOD BUT THAT BOOK WAS BASED ON THAT DIARY. SO IF YOU THOUGHT THAT WAS JUST A FICTIONAL -- IT REALLY WASN'T FICTIONAL. IT WAS A REAL DIARY. I HAVE A SUMMARY OF THAT DIARY IN CHAPTER 3. >> WE WILL HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL NEXT WEEK. THIS IS A OUR CLIFF HANGER FOR THIS WEEK. THERE'S MORE ON THE DIARY AND FOR THOSE THAT SAW THE EXORCIST AND GOT TOTALLY SCARED IT WAS A GOOD IDEA TO GET SCARED. WE SHOULD KEEP THAT MORE IN MIND. WHY DON'T YOU, FATHER, GIVE US YOUR BLESSING ON THE WAY OUT THE DOOR. >> BOW YOUR HEAD AND PRAY FOR GOD'S BLESSING. WE ASK YOU TO SEND YOUR HOLY SPIRIT OF PROTECTION AND ANGELS OF PROTECTION TO US INTO US, AROUND US AND CHRIST JESUS TO OUR LEFT AND RIGHT AND ABOVE AND BENEATH US. BE PRESENT THROUGH THAT SPIRIT THAT YOU HAVE SENT INTO OUR HEARTS SO THAT WE MIGHT KNOW, YES, THAT THERE IS A DEVIL IN THE WORLD BUT WE ARE PERFECTLY CAPABLE THROUGH YOUR NAME, DEAR JESUS, TO RENOUNCE SATAN AND TO PROTECT OURSELVES AND OUR CULTURE AND CHILDREN FROM HIM. IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, THE SON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT, AMEN. >> THANK YOU SO MUCH, FATHER SPITZER. BE WELL. WE SHALL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK. AND REMINDING ALL OF YOU ABOUT ALL OF FATHER SPITZER'S BOOKS AND DVDS AND HIS NEW BOOK AVAILABLE THROUGH OUR EWTN RELIGIOUS CATALOGUE. WE WILL KEEP GOING THROUGH HIS NEW BOOK. PICK IT UP IN BETWEEN SO YOU CAN HAVE IT NEXT WEEK. A WONDERFUL BOOKMARK I CAN SAY FOR MYSELF BECAUSE FATHER GEORGE WAS SO GOOD, CRISIS IN CULTURE, A BOOK PUBLISHED BY EWTN AND A NEW SHOW WITH THE CATHOLIC SPHERE. CHECK IT OUT FOR A GLOBAL VIEW OF THE CHURCH AND CATHOLIC SCANDINAVIA. A LOOK AT CATHOLICISM AROUND THE WORLD. I'M DOUG KECK. JOIN US NEXT TIME AT THE BUSY INTERSECTION OF FAITH AND REASON. WE WILL BE DIRECTING TRAFFIC ONCE AGAIN. SEE YOU THEN. [MUSIC]
