[MUSIC] >> AND WELCOME TO "FATHER SPITZER'S UNIVERSE" IN A LITTLE DIFFERENT LOCATION THAN NORMAL. WE'RE IN PLANET NAPA, THAT'S WHERE WE FOUND SERVICE FOR THIS WEEK AND WE'RE JOINED IN PERSON BY "FATHER SPITZER'S UNIVERSE" AND A WONDERFUL AUDIENCE HERE FROM THE PEOPLE ATTENDING THIS FABULOUS CONFERENCE. GREAT TO SEE YOU IN PERSON THERE, FATHER. >> GOOD TO SEE YOU IN PERSON, DOUG. IT'S BEEN TOO LONG. >> EXACTLY. WE GOT TO DO THE SHOW KIND OF COAST TO COAST, SO TO SPEAK. THE ORIGINAL NAME OF THE PROGRAM WHEN WE FIRST CAME UP WITHS WAS GOING TO BE "FAITH AND REASON: COAST TO COAST" AND AFTER WE REALIZED WHAT A LAME-O NAME THAT WAS, ONE OF THE CREATIVE PEOPLE IN THE ORGANIZATION, STEVE BEAUMONT, SAID WHAT ABOUT "FATHER SPITZER'S UNIVERSE" AND THEN WE WENT FROM THERE AND I THINK THAT'S WORKED QUITE WELL FOR US. WE GET A LOT OF GREAT FEEDBACK FROM AROUND THE COUNTRY AND THE UNIVERSE AND THE GLOBE ON THE PROGRAM WITH YOUR TIMELY ANSWERS TO TOUGH QUESTIONS PEOPLE HAVE. SO TO DO SOMETHING A LITTLE DIFFERENT RATHER THAN FOLLOWING CREDIBLE AND CATHOLIC AS WE'VE BEEN DOING AND IF YOU HAVE WATCHED WEEK 0 WEEK, WE DEALT WITHEL AND PURGATORY RECENTLY -- BUT THIS WEEK WE DECIDED TO TAKE QUESTIONS FROM THE AUDIENCE. AS WE DO WITH EVERY SHOW YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THOSE MIGHT BE. >> I DON'T KNOW. >> SOMEONE SAYS, ANOTHER NAME FOR THE SHOW WAS EACH WEEK DOUG KECK TRIES TO STUMP FATHER SPITZER AND FAILS MISERABLY. >> A COUPLE OF STUMPERS. >> THEY'RE FEW AND FAR AND IN BETWEEN. LET'S GET STARTED BECAUSE THESE WONDERFUL PEOPLE WHO HAVE TAKEN THEIR TIME TO VISIT WITH US HERE ON OUR PLAN TOTE ASK SOME QUESTIONS SO LET'S GET STARTED. >> LET'S START WITH A PRAYER. ABSOLUTELY. >> IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER AND SON AND HOLY SPIRIT, AMEN. HEAVENLY FATHER WE GIVE YOU THAT WE SAY FOR YOUR MANY BLESSINGS, BLESSING OF EWTN AND ESPECIALLY THIS GOOD NAPA CONFERENCE AND WE ASK YOU TO SEND YOUR HOLY SPIRIT DOWN ON DOUG AND MYSELF THIS DAY, OUR WHOLE CREW AND ALL OF OUR AUDIENCE MEMBERS. SEND THAT SPIRIT DOWN TO GUIDE US AND INSPIRE AND YOU SAY PROTECT US. SEND YOUR SPIRIT ON OUR WHOLE AUDIENCE SO WHATEVER THEY HEAR WILL BE UNTO YOUR WILL FOR THE GOOD OF YOUR CHURCH, YOUR KINGDOM AND YOUR PEOPLE THROUGH JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD AMEN. >> AND MARY SEAT OF WISDOM -- PRAY FOR US. >> IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER AND THE SON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT. AMEN. WHAT IS THE FIRST STEP IN HELPING A FALLEN AWAY CATHOLIC COME BACK TO THE FAITH? >> WELL I THINK IT DEPENDS ON WHY THEY MAY HAVE FALLEN AWAY. IF THEY ARE TYPICAL PEW SURVEY TYPES -- THAT IS TO SAY IF THEY RESEMBLE WHAT THE PEW SURVEY SAYS IS GOING TO BE TYPICAL IT'S GOING TO BE A FAITH AND SCIENCE PROBLEM OR IT'S GOING TO BE A FAITH AND REASON PROBLEM OR A SUFFERING AND THE WILL OF GOD PROBLEM. SO, IN OTHER WORDS, WHY WOULD AN ALL LOVING GOD ALLOW SUFFERING. IT'S GENERALLY ONE OF THOSE THREE CATEGORIES. IT SO HAPPENS THAT THE CREDIBLECATHOLIC.COM WE DO HAVE RESPONSES TO ALL OF THOSE QUESTIONS. WE HAVE THE VERY DETAILED RESPONSE IN VOLUMES ONE, TWO, THREE AND FOUR OF THE BIG BOOK BUT LOOKS LIKE -- YOU KNOW I WOULD SHOW AND TAKE THE TIME OUT TO WATCH THE VIDEOS AND JUST GO TO CREDIBLECATHOLIC.COM, CRICK ON THE SEVEN ESSENTIAL MODULES AND WHEN YOU GOT DOWN TO THOSE MODULES REALLY WATCH THE FIRST FIVE MODULES WITH YOUR CHILD. THERE ARE FIVE 40-MINUTE MODULES, AND THEY GO RATHER QUICKLY AND THERE ARE EMBEDDED VIDEOS INSIDE OF THE VIDEOS AND THERE ARE VOICEOVER POWERPOINTS THAT ARE READ BUT LOTS OF GRAPHICS AND VERY ENTERTAINING. I DO THINK JUST WATCHING THOSE FIVE THINGS CAN CAUSE THEM TO THINK. NOW IF THEY'RE FALLING AWAY, THEY'RE LIKELY TO COME BACK OR AT LEAST GO TO A MIDDLE POSITION. >> IS THERE A PERIOD OF TIME FOR YOUNG PEOPLE WHICH IS TYPICAL THAT THEY WOULD HAVE THAT SORT OF FALLING AWAY EXPERIENCE IN. >> IT BEGINS REALLY IN THE LAST PART OF THEIR SENIOR YEAR OF HIGH SCHOOL, PROCEEDS ALL THE WAY THROUGH COLLEGE. SO WE KNOW PRETTY MUCH THAT THE MAJORITY OF THE KIDS WHO ARE GOING TO BECOME NONES, UNBELIEVERS ESSENTIALLY, THE MAJORITY OF THOSE KIDS WILL MAKE THEIR DECISION, 42 PERCENT OF OUR YOUNG PEOPLE, THE MAJORITY WILL MAKE THAT DECISION IN COLLEGE OR IN THEIR LAST SEMESTER OF HIGH SCHOOL. >> OKAY. AND LET ME FOLLOW-UP WITH THIS ONE BECAUSE THIS PERSON'S QUESTION IS A PERFECT FOLLOW-UP. HOW CAN PARENTS KEEP THEIR KIDS ENGAGED IN THEIR FAITH LIFE AFTER HIGH SCHOOL. >> YEAH, ONE OF THE PROBLEMS IS PRECISELY WHAT YOU HAVE SAID THERE. I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS YOU CAN DO IS YOU KNOW, TRY TO FIND SOME PEER SUPPORT FOR THEM AND, OF COURSE, AS I WOULD SAY, PLEASE, YOU KNOW MAKE EVERY EFFORT TO GET THEM TO EITHER WATCH THE SEVEN ESSENTIAL MODULES OR TO WATCH THEM WITH A GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO ARE THEIR PEERS. ONE VERY WONDERFUL COUPLE DOWN IN ORANGE COUNTY ACTUAL INVITED -- I THINK ABOUT A HUNDRED KIDS -- ACTUALLY ABOUT 70 KIDS OVER TO THEIR HOUSE. IT WAS KIND OF A LARGE HOUSE THERE IN ORANGE COUNTY AND ACTUALLY HAD ME COME OUT AND GIVE A TALK ON FAITH AND SCIENCE TO THOSE COLLEGE KIDS. AND IT MADE A WORLD OF DIFFERENCE AND, OF COURSE, I CAN'T DO THAT ALL THE TIME. SO IN LIEU OF THAT VIDEO MAYBE TO WATCH THE FIRST THREE OF THE VIDEOS IN THE CREDIBLE CATHOLIC SERIES, JUST TO SIT DOWN. AND YOU ALSO THAT'S THREE 40 MINUTE VIDEO WHOSE IS GOING TO WATCH TWO HOURS OF VIDEO -- YOU MAY NOT WATCH EVERYTHING BUT MAYBE YOU HAVE TWO NIGHTS OVER THE SUMMER, AND THAT'S WHAT THIS COUPLE KIND OF FIGURED OUT THAT THE STUDENTS DO WANT TO GET TOGETHER WITH THEIR HIGH SCHOOL BUDDIES, YOU KNOW, AND SO THEY HOSTED THIS THING AND JUST BROUGHT PEOPLE TOGETHER. AND I WOULD SAY YOU KNOW WHY NOT WATCH A VIDEO AND A HALF WITH THE STUDENTS AND THEN COME BACK AND DO ANOTHER VIDEO AND A HALF ON A SECOND NIGHT IN SUMMER. PEOPLE JUST BRING POTLUCK DINNERS, THINGS LIKE THAT, THEY WILL WATCH IT WITH THEIR PEERS AND IT WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE IF THEY DO WATCH IT WITH THEIR PEERS. >> WHAT IS THE HOOK DO YOU THINK? WHAT IS IT THAT MADE THESE SUCCESSFUL IN YOUR MIND? I THINK -- WELL IT'S NOT ONLY THE PEER SUPPORT THAT OTHER PEOPLE ACTUALLY BELIEVE FROM THEIR HIGH SCHOOL GRIPE BUT ALSO GETTING THE EVIDENCE. THAT'S THE IMPORTANT THING. WHETHER THAT EVIDENCE COMES FROM NEAR-DEATH EXPERIENCES OR THE SHROUD OF TURIN OR WHETHER COMES FROM GOD AND PHYSICS STUFF, THAT SAID ABSOLUTELY ASTOUNDING TO THE STUDENTS. THEY HAVE NEVER HEARD OF IT BEFORE. THE COLLEGE STUDENTS WHEN WEEP SHOWED IT TO THE COLLEGE STUDENTS, LIKE FOR EXAMPLE IN AUSTRALIA, WE HAVE DR. ANNE STEINEM THERE AND SHE SHOWS THEM TO THEIR COLLEGIATE STUDENTS AND THEIR JAWS ARE JUST DROPPED. AND THE QUESTION THAT IS UNIVERSALLY ASKED AT THEIR COLLEGE CENTER IS WHY HASN'T ANYBODY TOLD US THIS BEFORE? AND THEY HAVEN'T BEEN TOLD. NOW, WE ARE -- WE ARE RIGHT NOW IN 122 DIOCESE AND THE BISHOPS HAVE INVITED US IN TO GIVE THESE MODULES THROUGH THEIR HIGH SCHOOLS AND MIDDLE SCHOOLS TO THE STUDENTS AND SO THAT -- WE ARE STARTING TO REACH THAT GROUP BUT IF YOU CAN INOCULATE THEM BEFORE THEY GO TO COLLEGE OR REACH THEIR SECOND SEMESTER SENIOR YEAR, YOU WOULD DO VERY WELL TO DO SO. BECAUSE ONCE THEY MAKE THE LEAP OFF THE EDGE, IT'S HARD TO DRAG THEM BACK OVER. IF THEY'RE STANDING AT THE EDGE YOU CAN GET THEM BACK OVER. YOU CAN PULL THEM BACK. BUT I GUESS A LOT OF PARENTS AND WE HEAR TOMMY HILFIGER THIS ALL THE TIME, YOU HAVE THAT STATEMENT, WHY DIDN'T ANYBODY TELL ME ABOUT THIS. I WILL SAY THAT FROM A PERSONAL SIDE FROM MOTHER ANGELICA AND EWTN, SO MANY PEOPLE THEN START TO WATCH EWTN FINALLY AND WONDER WHY NOBODY EVER TOLD THEM THIS WAS AVAILABLE. AND YOU THERE AND SAY, I GO TO MY PARISH, I DON'T HEAR ABOUT THIS. I'M GOING TO A CATHOLIC SCHOOL, I SENT MY KIDS TO 12 YEARS OF CATHOLIC EDUCATION. THEY HAD EVERY OPPORTUNITY TO TEACH THESE KINK THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, AND SOMEHOW WE'RE MISSING THEM. WHY? >> WELL I THINK FOR A LONG TIME AFTER VATICAN II, THERE WAS A PROCLIVITY NOT TO REALLY DO APOLOGETICS. IT ALMOST SEEMED TWO OVERT. THEY WANTED TO TAKE THE WAY OF THE HEART, WHICH IS OF COURSE IMPORTANT AND WE DON'T WANT TO IGNORE RETREATS. WE DON'T WANT TO IGNORE FELLOWSHIP. WE DON'T WANT TO IGNORE COMMON PRAYER. ALL OF THESE THINGS ARE REALLY IMPORTANT FOR DEVELOPING THE HEART, BUT WITHOUT THE EVIDENCE OF THE MIND, REMEMBER, THE MIND LIBERATES THE HEART AND THEN THE HEART LIBERATES THE MIND, SO THAT THE MIND CAN LIBERATE THE HEART ALL THE MORE. SO YOU NEED SOME EVIDENCE. AND IN THIS CULTURE, WHEN -- LITERALLY THE MEDIA, THE TRADITIONAL AND SOCIAL MEDIA ARE ATTACKING RELIGION NOT JUST ATTACK THE CATHOLIC CHURCH BUT ATTACKING RELIGION IN GENERAL, GOD -- I MEAN THE DEVIL HAS DONE ALL OF THESE HANDIWORK TO PREPARE FOR THIS TIME, WHEN THEY PULLED THE RUG OUT FROM UNDERNEATH THESE YOUNG PEOPLE AND I'M NOT WE HAD BETTER GET IT THERE. IN FACT THE CALIFORNIA BISHOPS JUST VOTED IT IN TO EVERY HIGH SCHOOL IN CALIFORNIA. >> VERY GOOD. AND ALSO TOUCHING INTO YOUNG FAMILIES, THE QUESTION CAME, IN A YOUNG FAMILY WHO GREW UP CATHOLIC BUT DOESN'T PRACTICE, HOW CAN WE -- THAT IS, AS GRANDPARENTS, INTRODUCE GOD INTO THE FAMILY DEALING WITH YOUNG CHILDREN? ONE'S A BABY, ONE's 5 YEARS OLD, AND MAKES THE POINT THAT THE CHILD INDICATED I KNOW ALL ABOUT GOD BUT THE GRANDPARENT SEEMS TO THINK HE MIGHT BE THINKING MORE ABOUT SANTA CLAUS THAN GOD IN THE SENSE OF PRAYING. AND THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS I KNOW. WOULD I GIVE A PLUG FOR EWTN. WE HAVE A LOT OF WONDERFUL TEACHING CHILDREN'S PROGRAMMING AND I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE HAVE TRIED TO PROMOTE OVER THE YEARS IS THE IDEA THAT A LOT OF GRANDPARENTS ARE BABY SITTING THEIR GRANDKIDS BECAUSE OF WORKING MOTHERS AND OTHER SITUATION. IT'S A GREAT OPPORTUNITY FOR YOU TO MODEL AND INCULCATE THE FAITH INTO YOUR GRANDCHILDREN BY YOUR ACTIVITIES. WE HAVE HEARD STORIES OVER THE YEARS WHERE THE CHILD SAID, WELL I LIKE TO WATCH EWTN OR I LIKE TO WATCH THOSE PROGRAMS OR WHEN I'M AT GRANDMOM'S HOUSE WE PRAY GRACE BEFORE WE EAT, WHY CAN'T WE DO THAT? SO THAT MIGHT BE ONE THING FROM AN EWTN PERSPECTIVE THAT WE HAVE HEARD FEEDBACK ABOUT. >> I WOULD JUST REITERATE THAT ANSWER. GRANDPARENTS NOW HAVE MUCH MORE OF A ROLE THAN THEY EVER DID IN PREVIOUS GENERATIONS AND THEY ARE DOING NOT ONLY BABY-SITTING BUT THEY HAVE THE PERFECT OPPORTUNITY, YOU KNOW, IN THEIR OWN HOMES, WHERE THE KIDS ARE BEING BABYSAT TO TURN ON EWTN OR TO GET A CATHOLIC PICTURE BIBLE AND TO READ THE CATHOLIC PICTURE BIBLE. IT'S SO IMPORTANT. THERE ARE SOME REALLY GREAT LIVES OF THE SAINTS THAT ARE TERRIFICALLY DONE WITH ILLUSTRATIONS, AND THERE'S A -- GOSH, THERE'S A WHOLE VIDEO SERIES, YOU KNOW, IT'S ALMOST LIKE ON THE SAINTS, IT'S ALMOST LIKE "X-MEN" FOR SAINTS. I FORGET WHAT THE NAME OF IT IS NOW, BUT THEY HAVE TERRIFIC VIDEOS. SO ONE THING THAT GRANDPARENTS SHOULD DO -- GO TO YOUR LOCAL CATHOLIC BOOK STORE -- >> AND YOU NO, I DON'T SAY EWTNRC.COM -- >> I MEANT TO SAY EWTNRC.COM AND ACTUALLY LOOKING AT -- >> AND WONDERFUL VIDEOS THAT WE OFFER, WONDERFUL BOOKS THAT ARE AVAILABLE THROUGH THE EWTN RELIGIOUS CATALOG AT EWTNRC.COM. REMEMBER IT WAS FOUNDED BY MOTHER ANGELICA. >> THAT'S VERY TRUE. >> KEEP THAT IN MIND WHEN YOU'RE MAKING YOUR PURCHASES. >> DEFINITELY. I COMMITTED ERROR THERE. BUT IT WAS AN ERROR OF OMISSION. >> YES. I UNDERSTAND. >> YOU'RE MORE GENEROUS THAN I AM. THAT'S WHAT IT IS. NOT A PROBLEM. HERE IS ANOTHER QUESTION ON A DIFFERENT TACT: WHY DO WE HAVE SACRAMENTALS? HOW ARE THESE DIFFERENT FROM GOOD LUCK CHARMS? >> SACRAMENTALS ARE REMINDERS OF SACRED EVENTS, OF SACRED GRACE, AND SO THEY REALLY DO, YOU KNOW, WHEN THEY GALVANIZE OUR SPIRIT, I MEAN A GOOD LUCK CHARM IS NOT GOING TO MOTIVATE PRAYER. A GOOD LUCK CHARM IS NOT GOING TO REMIND US OF THE PASSION OF CHRIST LIKE A CRUCIFIX WILL. THE ROSARY MAY NOT SAVE YOU. BUT THAT ROSARY IN YOUR POCKET MAY REMIND YOU TO PRAY THE ROSARY OR MAY REMIND YOU, YOU KNOW, THAT OUR BLESSED MOTHER IS HERE PRESENT. SO EVERY SINGLE SACRAMENTAL IS REALLY A REMINDER OF THE GRACE THAT CAN BE CONDUITED THROUGH THAT. SO WHEN I LOOK AT A CRUCIFIX, AND I HAVE EMOTIONS ABOUT EVERYTHING THAT THE SON OF GOD DID TO SAVE ME, TO SAVE US, THAT'S SACRAMENTAL BY BEING A FOCUS AND REMINDING ME OF MOVING ME IS NOW KIND OF AN INSTRUMENT OF GRACE. IT'S NOT JUST A SIGN OF GRACE BUT IT'S AN INSTRUMENT OF GRACE. BECAUSE IT'S CAPABLE OF MOVING ME. OF COURSE A GOOD LUCK CHARM IS NOT GOING TO MOVE ME TO ANYTHING EXCEPT SUPERSTITION WHEREAS A CRUCIFIX WILL REMIND ME OR HOLY WATER WILL REMIND ME OR A ROSARY WILL REMIND ME OR ANY OTHER NUMBER OF SACRAMENTALS WILL NOT ONLY REMIND ME BUT INSIGHT ME AND MOVE ME TO PRAY OR TO, YOU KNOW, JUST TO EXPRESS MY GRATITUDE TO GOD OR ANY ONE OF A NUMBER OF THINGS THAT WILL CHANNEL GRACE AS IT WERE INTO MY LIFE JUST WHICH THOSE PRAYERS. BUT THE SACRAMENTAL ITSELF IS NOT LIKE, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING LIKE A SACRAMENT WHERE GRACE IS PRESENT IN THE ACTUAL ACTION OR IN THE ACTUAL SPECIES OF THE BREAD AND WINE AND THE ACTION OF THE PRIEST AND THE WORDS OF ABSOLUTION. THAT'S JUST NOT THERE. SO FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES, A SACRAMENTAL THOUGH DOES REMIND US -- >> SO HOW WOULD YOU -- YOU TALK ABOUT EXORCISM AND SPIRITUAL WARFARE AND MANNHEIM AND THE STORY BASED ON THE EXORCIST AND THE BOOK COMING OUT NEXT YEAR DELVES INTO SOME OF THAT AND YOU ALWAYS SEE THE SCENES WHERE THEY'RE HOLDING UP THE CRUCIFIXION AND IT SEEMS TO HAVE AN IMPACT ON THE DEVIL. >> YES. BECAUSE THE DEVIL HATES ANYTHING THAT IS HOLY. THE DEVIL HATES ANYTHING THAT REMINDS ANYBODY OF CHRIST JESUS, THE BLESSED VIRGIN, OR ANY -- ANYTHING ELSE THAT IS TRULY HOLY. I MEAN YOU KNOW WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT A SACRAMENTAL THERE'S NOTHING KIND OF EMANATING OUT OF THE CROSS THAT IS DOING THAT, BUT THE CROSS AND ALL OF ITS, YOU KNOW, POWER TO BRING FORTH YOU KNOW, PEOPLE'S FAITH AND TO BRING FORTH PEOPLE'S PRAYER THAT WILL LEAD TO GRACE IS REPULSIVE TO THE DEVIL, BECAUSE ITS FILLED AS IT WERE WITH THAT KIND OF HOLINESS, THAT CAPABILITY TO BRING US TO A SENSE OF THE PRESENCE OF CHRIST AMONG US. AND ANY REMINDER LIKE THAT, EVEN A HOLY RELIC, ANYTHING LIKE THAT THAT IS GENUINELY HOLY COMES FROM A HOLY PERSON. AND ANYTHING LIKE THAT WOULD BE REPULSIVE TO THE DEVIL AND HE -- >> SO THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH HOLY REMINDERS. >> NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. >> I'M HAPPY TO HEAR THAT. MOTHER ANGELICA, HOLY REMINDERS, EWTN RELIGIOUS CATALOG. THAT'S WHAT MOTHER ANGELICA WANTED, SHE WANTED THAT IN PEOPLE'S HOUSES. FATHER SPITZER WE DON'T TALK ABOUT THE CRITICAL ISSUE OF SPIRITUAL WARFARE IN THE CHURCH. COULD YOU PROVIDE INSIGHT INTO THE AUTHORITY WE HAVE OVER DEMONS. >> I'M NOT SURE WHERE THERE IS OR WHY THERE ISN'T ENOUGH OF THAT SPEECH BUT I WILL JUST SIMPLY SAY THIS IS. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY A SPIRITUAL STRUGGLE BETWEEN GOOD AND EVIL. IT OUGHT TO BE PART OF HOMILIES. IT'S CERTAINLY PART OF MY HOMILIES. I NEVER MISS AN OPPORTUNITY TO TALK ABOUT OUR SPIRITUAL ENEMY AND HOW CHRIST HAS OVERCOME HIM BUT I THINK WE HAVE TO TALK ABOUT IT. RIGHT IN OUR WE'RE SO LOCKED INTO OUR KIND OF EMPIRICAL MATERIAL WORLD THAT WE HAVE FORGET THAT THERE'S A MUCH BIGGER WORLD AROUND US IN TO WHICH OUR LIVES ARE BLENDED. SO WE ARE PARTY OF THIS SPIRITUAL WORLD AND EVEN THOUGH IN ONE SENSE IT'S INVISIBLE TO THOSE WHO DON'T HAVE THE EYES OF FAITH, IT'S VERY VISIBLE TO THOSE WHO DO HAVE THE EYES OF FAITH. WHAT I MEAN IS AFTER A WHILE, YOU KNOW WHEN THE DOESN'T HE FEEL MAKING HIS APPROACH. SOMETIMES YOU FEEL A DEEP SENSE OF EMPTINESS. SOMETIMES YOU CAN ACTUALLY FEEL THE PRESENCE OF THE EVIL SPIRIT WHEN YOUR HEART STARTS BEATING SUDDENLY UNEXPECTEDLY FOR NO APPARENT REASON AND THEN YOU FEEL THIS SORT OF EMPTINESS THAT ACCOMPANIES IT, YOU KNOW HE IS HOVERING NEARBY. SOMETIMES I WILL BE LYING IN BED AND THINKING TO MYSELF AND THINKING THAT WAS A VERY PRODUCTIVE DAY AND I GOT THIS DONE AND THAT DONE AND THE OTHER THING DONE AND ALL OF -- ALL OF A SUDDEN IT'S LIKE -- WHAT ARE YOU THINKING ABOUT SPITZER, I'M COUNTING THE BLESSINGS AND GRATEFUL AND SOMETIMES THE DEVIL WANTS TO SWOOP IN AND WANTS TO SAY, WELL, I'M THE BOSS HERE AND YOU HAD BETTER FEAR ME. AND YOU KNOW, I FEEL THOSE -- THE HEART THE START -- THE HEART BEAT GOING UP AND I FEEL THE EMPTINESS AND I START -- YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE O LORD, YOU KNOW, PLEASE, YOU KNOW, CAST OUT ANY DEMON THAT IS IN THIS ROOM. AND THEN I SAY SAINT MICHAEL, PROTECT ME. ST. MICHAEL, JUST DEAL WITH THIS DEMON AND THIS IS VERY REAL. AND IT ABSOLUTELY HAPPENS. AND OF COURSE THE MORE EMBEDDED YOU BECOME IN THE FAITH YOU CAN BE SURE THAT THE DEVIL L. WANT TO MAKE HIS PRESENCE FELT. AFTER A WHILE HE DOESN'T CARE THAT YOU KNOW WHO HE IS. HE JUST WANTS TO UPSET YOU. JUST DON'T GET UPSET. >> WOULD THAT BE A CASE WHERE YOU'RE REDO YOU NOTING FOR YOURSELF WHAT YOU GOT DONE IN A POSITIVE WAY, AND HE STARTS TO WHISPER, WELL, YOU REALTY DIDN'T GET THAT MUCH DONE AND MAYBE IT'S NOT THAT -- >> HE WILL DO THAT, TOO. SOMETIMES HE JUST WANTS TO GIVE, YOU KNOW, I'M STILL HERE. AND DON'T FORGET IT. AND OF COURSE I MY RESPONSE IS, YOU MAY BE HERE BUT I'M SICKING ST. MICHAEL AND THE LORD ON YOU. SO YOU KNOW, IS AND I DOESN'T FEAR THAT AT ALL. WHEN I WAS YOUNGER AND THE THINGS STARTED HAPPENING, THAT'S THE SENSE OF EMPTINESS, YOU KNOW, AND WHAT'S THIS HEART INCREASE, WHAT IS THIS ALL ABOUT. AND THEN THE NEXT THING I KNOW, JUST -- OH, YOU KNOW -- >> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU TALK ABOUT WHEN YOU ARE GOING TO BE ORDAINED AND FOUND ON THE ABOUT THE ISSUES YOU HAD WITH YOUR SIGHT TO COME, AND IT'S A GREAT LINE AND I ALWAYS TRY TO REMEMBER MYSELF IS WHEN YOU'RE GETTING THAT NEGATIVE THING AND SAYING WOULD THAT YOUR SPIRITUAL DIRECTOR SAID WHO HAVE BEEN LISTENING TO? >>AND IT REMINDED ME THAT ALL OF THAT DEJECTION, EVERYTHING ELSE, I WAS ACTING AS IF EVERYTHING DEPENDED AND THAT, YOU KNOW -- AN INSURMOUNTABLE PROBLEM, AND SO, YOU KNOW, I THOUGHT TO MYSELF -- YOU KNOW, THE DAMAGED GOODS. JUST LISTEN TO THE RHETORIC. THIS IS NOT GOD. THIS IS THE DEVIL'S RHETORIC. AND BOY CAN HE CALL ME BACK TO SANITY IN A HURRY. THAT'S GREAT -- I LIKE THAT PRAYER. I KNOW YOU WORKED ON IT FOR A LONG TIME. THAT IS WHAT DID, HELP? >> IT'S A TERRIFIC PRAY. I RECOMMEND IT FOR EVERYONE. >> THAT'S ONE OF MY FAVORITES. PROBABLY THE ONLY ONE I COULD MENTAL RISE. >> SO HERE IS ANOTHER QUESTION. IT KIND OF RELAYS BACK TO THE EARLIER YES. WHAT DO YOU SAY TO SOMEONE WHO CLAIMS YOU CAN LOVE GOD JUST AS MUCH WITHOUT A FORMAL RELIGION. WE HEAR THAT ALL OF THE TIME, I'M A SPIRITUAL PERSON AND I DON'T NEED THE SPIRITUAL RIGIDITY OF A FORMAL RELIGION. MY ANSWER IS NO YOU CAN'T. AND THE REASON YOU CAN'T IS IF YOU THINK YOU CAN FIND YOUR WAY TO CHARITY IN THE TRUEST SENSE OF THAT WORD, IF YOU THINK YOU CAN FIND YOUR WAY TO WHAT I CALL GENTLE HEARTEDNESS, MEEKNESS, ONCE IN A WHILE OF THE BEATITUDES, HUMBLE HEARTEDNESS, ANOTHER BEATITUDE, TO MERCY IN THE SENSE OF COMPASSION AND FORGIVENESS IN THE SENSE THAT JESUS TAUGHT IT, IF YOU THINK YOU CAN JUST DO A SELF DISCOVERY METHOD WITH YOUR CRYSTAL AND YOU THINK YOU CAN FIND YOUR WAY TO THIS KIND OF WISDOM, TO THIS KIND OF DEPTH OF THE HEART, IF YOU THINK YOU CAN DO THAT ON YOUR OWN, YOU KNOW, WOW, YOU ARE A REMARKABLE PERSON, MORE REMARKABLE THAN ME -- JUST SPEAKING FOR MYSELF, IF YOU'RE ANYTHING LIKE ME, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO FIND YOUR WAY TO THAT. NUMBER TWO, IF YOU THINK YOU CAN CONJURE UP THE GRACE OF THE HOLY EUCHARIST -- RIGHT, WHAT IS GOING ON IN THE HOLY EUCHARIST -- JESUS IS COMING TO HIS IN HIS WHOLE PERSON. WE SAY BODY, SOUL -- BODY, BLOOD, SOUL AND DIVINITY BUT WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS JESUS, THE PERSON, JESUS THE DIVINE PERSON, JESUS THE RISEN PERSON, JESUS THE EMBODIED PERSON, IS COMING INTO MY HEART AND HE IS TALKING TO MY HEART AND DIALOGUING MY HEART -- NOT SPOILING MY FREEDOM, BUT ACTUALLY IS DIALING BEING WITH ME IN THIS WAY, AND I CAN ASSURE YOU OF THIS, THAT IS ABSOLUTELY TRANSFORMATIVE. IF YOU THINK YOU CAN GET THIS ON YOUR OWN, FAR BE IT FROM ME TO DISSUADE YOU BUT IF YOU'RE ANYTHING LIKE ME YOU'RE NOT GOING TO DO IT ON YOUR OWN. YOU'RE GOING TO NEED THE POWER OF THE EUCHARIST. IF YOU THINK FOR A MOMENT YOU'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO -- LIKING IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH WE HAVE THE SACRAMENT OF RECONCILIATION AND AND IF YOU THINK YOU CAN JUST COME TO THE IDEA, NOT JUST THE IDEA, BUT THE REALITY OF ABOUT VIOLATION. HE AND MORTAL AND VENIAL, IF YOU THINK YOU CAN GIVE THAT TO YOURSELF, YOU HAD BETTER WAIT UNTIL YOU'RE 60 YEARS OLD, AND YOU DOUBT EVERY SINGLE SOLITARY TIME WHEN YOU JUST THREW UP SOME PRAYER OF FORGIVENESS ON YOUR OWN, WITHOUT ANY KIND OF DEFINITIVE RESOLUTION THAT IS PROMISED TO US IN JOHN 20-21, WHATEVER SINS HE TELLS YOU, THE APOSTLES RIGHT, WHATEVER SINS YOU FORGIVE OR FORGIVE THEM, WHATEVER SINS YOU HOLD ON, IT'S GIST AMAZING WHAT THAT GRACE CAN DO. BUT IF YOU THINK YOU CAN DO IT, FAR BE IT FROM ME TO DISSUADE YOU. IF YOU'RE ANYTHING LIKE ME, YOU'RE NOT -- >> IS THAT ALSO BECAUSE THE PEOPLE DON'T BELIEVE THERE ARE JUST BELIEVE THEY HAVE THE ABILITY TO SAY I'M SORRY. >> ANYBODY THAT DOESN'T BELIEVE THAT -- THAT THEY HAVE SINS THAT NEED TO BE FORGIVEN, PROBABLY NEEDS TO READ "CRIME AND PUNISHMENT" OR THE "THE TELL TALE HEART." I MEAN WE ALL KNOW, EVERY LAST ONE OF US HAS A CONSCIOUS. AND EVEN THOUGH YOU MIGHT SAY I DON'T BELIEVE IN ANY OF THAT STUFF, I'M BEYOND IT. I'M A PURE NIETZSCHE UNAND I AM SUPERMAN, I CAN DO THIS ON MY OWN -- JUST REMEMBER! NIETZSCHE DIED SCREAMING IN AN INSANE ASYLUM WITH PADDED WALLS! JUST A REMINDER. >> ABSOLUTELY. LET ME ASK YOU ANOTHER QUESTION. YOU BROUGHT NEWSPAPER TIMES DEALING WITH THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, PEOPLE SAY WHAT'S THE EUCHARIST? IT'S SO CORE AND WHERE ARE YOU GOING TO GO, YOU CAN'T LEAVE THE EUCHARIST AND I ALWAYS QUOTE, THINKING OF PETER, SAYING LORD, WHERE DO YOU GO, YOU HAVE ETERNAL LIFE. BUT THE IDEA OF THE PEW STUDY, THE STUDY THAT CAME OUT THAT SAID AT THE BEST 50 PERCENT OF THE CATHOLICS COULD IDENTIFY THE TEACHINGS ON THE REAL PRESENCE. >> YES I KNOW THAT. AND I HAVE TO SAY THAT IS ATTRIBUTABLE TO MERE CATECHESIS. I ALSO ATTRIBUTE IT TO AN ABSENCE OF APOLOGETICS AND FRANKLY GOING BACK TO THE '70S AND THE '80S, AND THE ABSENCE OF APOLOGETICS GETS -- PROBABLY GOD THE KIDS TO, YOU KNOW, TO HAVE THOSE THOUGHTS IN THEIR SENIOR YEAR, RIGHT, SO THEY GET TO THEIR SENIOR CAPSTONE COURSE, EVEN IN A GOOD CATHOLIC HIGH SCHOOL, RIGHT, OR EVEN BEING HOME SCHOOLED, AND THEY'RE -- THEY HAVE LEARNED EVERYTHING ABOUT MORAL THEOLOGY, SACRAMENTS, CHURCH HISTORY, THEY HAVE DONE THESE WONDERFUL COURSES AND THE KID IS SITTING THERE IN THE CAPSTONE COURSE THINKING, WAIT A MINUTE, WHAT IF GOD DOESN'T EXIST, WHAT HAVE THERE IS NO SOUL, WHAT HAVE JESUS -- WHAT IF JESUS NEVER WALKED OR TALKED ON THIS EARTH? WAIT A MINUTE! WHAT AM I DOING HERE? THE MINUTE THOSE QUESTIONS START PERMEATING, ALL OF THE OTHER THINGS THEY LEARNED MAYBE ABOUT THE REAL PRESENCE IN THE EUCHARIST AND CHURCH HISTORY AND EVERYTHING ELSE, JUST START PLUMMETING. ALL OF THE STUFF THEY LEARNED ABOUT PRAYER STARTS PLUMMETING. ALL OF THE RELIGIOUS EXPERIENCES THEY HAD ON THE RETREAT START PLUMMETING AND THEY BECOME EMOTIONALLY DETACHED BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T GET THE REASONS OF THE MIND AND THAT ALSO IN ADDITION TO VERY POOR CATECHESIS, IT'S THE DOUBLE WHAMMY, WE DID IT TO OURSELVES, '70S '80S '90S AND THE BISHOPS NOW ARE ALL OVER IT, ABOUT IMPROVING THE CATECHESIS AND, LIKE I SAID, WE HAVE 122 DIOCESE ASCRIBING TO OUR APOLOGETICS SYSTEM CALLED CREDIBLE CATHOLIC, BUT I HAVE TO TELL YOU, IT WAS NOT DONE FOR A LONG TIME. >> ABSOLUTELY. >> AND THAT'S THE REASON -- BECAUSE NOW WE'RE REAPING -- >> UNFORTUNATELY STRING PAINTINGS AND COLLAGES DIDN'T HELP US LEARN ABOUT THE EUCHARIST. >> IT REALLY DIDN'T. >> AND I ACTUALLY -- I WON'T TELL YOU THE COLLEGE BECAUSE IT WOULD BE TOO INSULTING BUT I WAS ONCE GOING TO OUR CAMPUS MINISTRY ASSOCIATION TO TALK ABOUT THE NECESSITY OF BRINGING OUR POLL APOLOGETICS CURRICULUM MODULES TO COLLEGE CAMPUSES. AND NOW ALL OF THE PEOPLE FROM -- THE PEOPLE FROM HARVARD AND EVERYTHING -- AND WE'RE INTERESTED IN THIS AND WE'RE VERY INTERESTED. I HAD ACTUALLY ONE CAMPUS MINISTER FROM A CATHOLIC HIGH SCHOOL THAT HAPPENED REALLY -- SHE SAID WE'RE MUCH MORE INTERESTED IN PAPER MACHE. THAT'S WHAT I WAS TOLD. AND I THOUGHT TO MYSELF WE'RE IN TROUBLE. AND WE ARE. WE ABSOLUTELY ARE. THE STUDENTS ARE NO FOOLS. I MEAN THEY ABSOLUTELY HAVE THE QUESTIONS ON THEIR MIND AND THEY'RE NOT GOING TO GO TO A CAMPUS MINISTRY, YOU KNOW. >> THERE'S ONLY SO MUCH PIZZA YOU CAN EAT, AS THEY SAY. HERE IS ANOTHER QUESTION THAT DOVETAILS INTO THAT. IF GOD IS ALL LOVING AND POWERFUL WHY SHOULD WE PRAY FOR THINGS WE NEED? WON'T HE ALREADY DO WHAT IS BEST FOR US? >> BECAUSE, NUMBER ONE, IT'S GOOD FOR YOU TO PRAY; AND, NUMBER TWO, GOD WANTS YOU TO PRAY BECAUSE IT'S GOOD FOR YOU. THAT'S WHY. IN OTHER WORDS GOD COULDN'T NEED TO BE ASKED. BUT IT'S LIKE MY MOTHER, WHEN I WOULD COME IN AND, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU'RE A FLIP KID, YOU COULD SAY, YOU KNOW, "EGGS PLEASE." NOT EVEN WITH THE "PLEASE." AND MY MOTHER WOULD SAY, "ASK NICELY," YOU KNOW? OKAY. AND, OF COURSE, THE REASON IS IS BECAUSE IT'S GOOD FOR US TO HAVE THAT KIND OF DEMEANOR, THAT KIND OF SURRENDER, THAT KIND OF, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE ASK GOD, RIGHT, IT OPENS OUR HEART IN SURRENDER, AND THAT'S WHAT REALLY MATTERS. IF WE GO, WELL, GOD KNOWS EVERYTHING HE WILL GO AHEAD AND DO THIS ON HIS OWN. I'M NOT INVOLVED IN THE PICTURE. OH, YES, YOU ARE. YOU ARE A FREE AGENT. AND UNLESS YOU FREELY ASK FOR THE GRACE AND GOD IS GOING TO HONOR YOUR FREEDOM, AND YOU DON'T GET INTO THE PICTURE, ALONG WITH GOD, HE IS NOT GOING TO ACCOMMODATE WHAT YOU -- WELL HE WILL ACCOMMODATE WHAT YOU REALLY NEED TO BE SAVED AND HE WILL DO EVERYTHING HE CAN TO SAVE YOU BUT HE ALSO WILL ACCOMMODATE WHEN YOU MAKE THESE PRAISE AND REQUESTS FOR YOUR NEEDS. HE'S GOING TO ALLOW YOU, THROUGH YOUR FREEDOM, TO BE KIND OF A DIALOGUEY WITH THIS GRACE THAT'S GOING TO COME ALIVE IN YOUR HEART AND THAT'S WHAT IS GOING TO MAKE THE DIFFERENCE. IT'S LIKE A PERSON WHO RECEIVES THE HOLY EUCHARIST, WHAT IS THINKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, GOING TO THE ICE CREAM PARLOR LATER ON OR SOMETHING, YOU KNOW. >> OR WHAT TIME THE FOOTBALL GAME STARTS. >> AS YOU RECEIVE THE HOLY EUCHARIST, THE MORE WE ATTEND TO, YOU KNOW, THE PRESENCE, THE DIALOGUING SPEAKING PRESENCE OF JESUS WITHIN OUR HEARTS, THE MORE HE CAN AFFECT US. HE WON'T PUSH US BEYOND OUR FREEDOM. WE NEED TO ASK. >> OKAY. HERE IS ANOTHER QUESTION. THIS TIES INTO A COUPLE OF TOUGH TOPICS COMING UP HERE. THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF TALK AND ENCOURAGEMENT FOR CATHOLICS -- THIS WEEKEND OBVIOUSLY AND DURING THE WEEK -- NOW TO STAND FOR TRUTH AND BE COURAGEOUS, EVEN MARTYRS. HOW DOES THIS FIT WITH PARENTS TRYING TO DECIDE IF THEY SHOULD ATTEND THEIR CHILD'S SAME-SEX WEDDING? THEY DO NOT BELIEVE IT'S MARRIAGE NOR THAT IT'S A GOOD IDEA. WHAT SHOULD YOU DO? >> WELL, YOU KNOW I THINK WITH ALL OF THESE THINGS YOU HAVE TO ASK YOURSELF -- I MEAN THERE'S TWO SIDES TO THIS QUESTION. WITH THE -- WILL THE CHILD, IN SUING THIS, SAY, THAT'S IT, I'M NOT GOING TO SPEAK TO YOU EVER AGAIN OR CLOSE OFF THE RELATIONSHIP, ET CETERA, YOU KNOW, WILL THIS HAPPEN, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO ASK YOURSELF THAT QUESTION. IF YOU THINK IT'S A STRONG LIKELIHOOD THAT THE CHILD WILL CUTOFF COMMUNICATION I THINK YOU HAVE TO HAVE A REAL SIT-DOWN WITH THE CHILD TO TELL THEM, THE REASON I'M NOT GOING TO DO THIS IS NOT BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO SUPPORT YOU; I DON'T WANT TO SUPPORT THIS, AND YOU'RE DOING THIS ACTION. AND THAT'S WHY I JUST DON'T WANT TO DO THAT. BUT I WANT TO SUPPORT YOU. SO I WANT TO FIND SOME OTHER WAYS IN WHICH I CAN SUPPORT YOU BUT I DON'T -- I KNOW THIS MEANS A LOT TO YOU AND THIS IS A MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH TO YOU, BUT I JUST DON'T THINK I CAN SUPPORT YOU IN WHAT YOU'RE DOING BECAUSE, IN MY VIEW, WHAT YOU'RE DOING IS SO CONTRARY TO THE TEACHING OF CHRIST THAT I THINK YOU MIGHT BE ENTERING INTO A LIFE OF DARKNESS, AND I JUST DON'T WASN'T YOU TO ENTER INTO A LIFE OF DARKNESS, NOT WITH MY BLESSING ANYWAY. >> RIGHT. OR THE PERCEPTION THAT YOU'RE BLESSING IT. >> RIGHT. THE PERCEPTION THAT YOU'RE BLESSING IT. SO IT'S A REALLY TOUGH THING. BUT I THINK AT THE VERY MOMENT A REQUEST LIKE THAT YOU KNOW COMES IN, I THINK IT'S INCUMBENT ON THE PARENTS TO ASK TO BE EXCUSED AND TO DO SOMETHING ELSE TO SHOW THEIR SUPPORT FOR THE CHILD -- >> THEIR LOVE FOR THE CHILD. >> THEIR LOVE FOR THE CHILD. HIM OR HERSELF, BUT NOT HAVE BEING -- BEING CO-OPTED INTO, YOU KNOW, SHOWING SUPPORT FOR THE PARTICULAR ACTION THEY'RE DOING, PARTICULARLY IF YOU THINK, YOU KNOW, THAT THIS IS GOING TO LEAD TO A LIFE OF DARKNESS. IT WOULD BE LIKE SAYING I JUST WISH YOU WOULD JOIN ME -- HAVE A JOINT WITH ME, WOULD YOU? SMOKE A LITTLE MARIJUANA! THAT WOULD PROVE YOUR LOVE FOR ME. BUT YOU'RE NOT GOING TO DO THIS. >> THERE'S THE OTHER SIDE WHICH IS TO SAY, IF YOU UNDERSTAND WHERE YOUR PARENTS ARE COMING FROM IN THEIR PERSPECTIVE WHY WOULD YOU PUT THEM IN THAT POSITION, HAVE TO GIVE YOU A HARD TIME TO DENY -- YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? >> THEN AT THE END OF THE DAY SAY, WELL, YOU EITHER ACCEPT THIS WEDDING AND ACCEPT WHAT I'M DOING OR ELSE THAT'S THE END OF MY RELATIONSHIP WITH YOU? YOU KNOW, HONOR YOUR FATHER AND YOUR MOTHER. BUT MAYBE THAT'S NOT AN IMPORTANT THING TO THAT PERSON. MAYBE THEY'RE -- BEING MARRIED YOU KNOW, AND IN A HOMOSEXUAL RELATIONSHIP IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN HONORING THEIR FATHER AND MOTHER. AND IF THAT'S THE CASE I THINK YOU KNOW, YOU PROBABLY OUGHT TO DO WHAT IS RIGHT BUT MY THOUGHT IS YOU REALLY HAVE TO HAVE THAT COMMUNICATION WITH THEM AND EXPLAIN THIS FULL ON. THERE CAN'T BE ANGER. THERE CAN'T BE IMPATIENCE. YOU HAVE TO REALLY SAY, I'M SO WORRIED THAT THIS IS GOING TO BECOME A DARKNESS. I'M SO WORRIED THAT THIS IS GOING TO JUST BE FRAUGHT WITH UNHAPPINESS AND INFIDELITY AND JEOPARDIZING YOUR SALVATION. I'M SO WORRIED ABILITY THESE THINGS THAT TRULY I'M -- I'M SCARED FOR YOUR SALVATION. I'M SCARED FOR YOU. AND SO THEN WHEN YOU DO THAT JUST SAY I WANTED TO BE EXCUSED. JUST LET ME FIND ANOTHER WAY OF FINDING SOME SUPPORT AND LOVE FOR YOU. >> OK. ANOTHER QUESTION: CONSIDERING THE RULE TO SEPARATE SEXES MALE AND FEMALE, IN RELIGIOUS COMMUNITIES, SINCE OBVIOUSLY THEY ARE SEPARATED, WHY DOES THE CHURCH ACCEPT A HOMOSEXUAL MAN TO LIVE IN COMMUNITIES OF MEN? WITH THIS SAME SEX ATTRACTION CREATE AN ENVIRONMENT FOR SEXUAL RELATIONSHIPS AND A BURDEN FOR THE HOMOSEXUAL? AND IF THE HOMOSEXUAL IS CONSIDERED TO HAVE A DISORIENTED CONDITION, SHOULD THEY EVEN BE PRIESTS? >> WELL, HERE IS -- THERE ARE SOME NORMS THAT GOVERN THIS. I MEAN, A PERSON HAS TO BE ABLE TO LIVE A CELEBRATE LIFE BEFORE THEY'RE GOING TO BECOME RELIGIOUS. NOW, I ADMIT THAT MAYBE IN THE '70S AND '80S AND MAYBE A LITTLE BIT AFTER THAT BUT NOT MUCH, THE '70S AND '80S, MAYBE THE '60S, THERE WASN'T A LOT OF PSYCHOLOGICAL TESTING BEING DONE TO EVALUATE WHETHER A PERSON HAD THE CAPACITY TO BE CELIBATE, ESPECIALLY IF THEY HAD A HOMOSEXUAL PROCLIVITY. I DON'T THINK EVERYBODY WHO HAS A HOMOSEXUAL PROCLIVITY SHOULD BE ELIMINATED FROM, YOU KNOW, BEING PART OF A RELIGIOUS ORDER. I DON'T THINK SO AT ALL. BUT I DO THINK, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO HAVE THOSE PSYCHOLOGICAL SAFEGUARDS IN PLACE TO MAKE SURE THAT A PERSON WHO DOES HAVE SUCH A PROCLIVITY IS ABLE TO BE CELIBATE. AND THEY DO HAVE VERY GOOD WAYS OF FINDING THIS OUT THROUGH PSYCHOLOGICAL EXAMS AND THROUGH PSYCHOLOGICAL INTERVIEWS AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE. DO WE HAVE TO BE FAR MORE ASSIDUOUS ABOUT THIS MAN IN THE PAST? YES, WE ABSOLUTELY DO. AND YOU KNOW I THINK, TOO, THAT -- THAT YOU KNOW, IF SOMEBODY IS EVEN IMPLICITLY ADVOCATING FOR A GAY LIFESTYLE, IT'S JUST RIGHT THERE, IT'S A GROUNDS FOR NOT ACCEPTING THAT PERSON INTO A RELIGIOUS COMMUNITY. I MEAN THAT IS JUST A KNEE ON SIGN, YOU KNOW, THAT SPACE ROBINSON ROBOT "DANGER, WILL ROBINSON, DANGER." TRULY. I MEAN, THESE THINGS ARE SCREAMING OUT. THEN THE QUESTION AT THAT JUNCTURE HAS VALIDITY. SO I WOULD SAY WE PROBABLY SHOULD MAKE A DISTINCTION BETWEEN A HOMOSEXUAL PROCLIVITY ON THE ONE HAND, WHICH IS NOT ACCOMPANIED BY A NEED FOR EXPRESSION OR HOMOSEXUAL ACTIVITY OR HOMOSEXUAL LIFESTYLE, AND CERTAINLY NOT ADVOCACY OF ANY KIND OF A GAY LIFESTYLE, YOU KNOW, AND -- I DO THINK, TOO, SOMETIMES, YOU KNOW, EVEN IF SOMEBODY IS EFFUSIVELY GAY IN THE SENSE OF, YOU KNOW, ALMOST DISTURBING, YOU KNOW, THE PEACE OF OTHER PEOPLE THERE, EVEN THOUGH THEY MAY HAVE A PROCLIVITY, MAY BE ABLE TO LIVE A CELIBATE LIFE -- AFFECTATIONS IF THEY WERE SERIOUS AND PRONOUNCED ENOUGH, YOU MAY WANTED TO REALLY LOOK AT THE EFFECTS THAT MIGHT HAVE ON THE COMMUNITY ITSELF BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE DAY IT REALLY IS THE PEACE OF THE COMMUNITY THAT IS GOING TO LEAD TO APOSTOLIC EFFECTIVENESS AND PEACE IN PRAYER AND IN THE SPIRITUAL LIFE WHICH IS REALLY, REALLY IMPORTANT. >> WITH YOUR SPACE FAMILY ROBINSON, WAS DR. SMITH DOING THE PSYCHOLOGICALS OR SOMETHING? >> NO WONDER IT WASN'T WORKING VERY WELL. >> AND NOW HERE IS ANOTHER ONE FOR YOU. HERE IS ANOTHER FASTBALL QUESTION. FATHER SPITZER WILL THE CHURCH EVER ORDAIN WOMEN? IF NOT, WHY? >> WELL I DON'T THINK SO. I THINK THERE ARE TWO PRINCIPLE REASONS. THERE'S TRANSITIONAL REASONS FOR IT. BUT THE FIRST REASON IS THAT I THINK IT IS THE TEACHING OF JESUS AND CERTAINLY THE TEACHING OF THE EARLY CHURCH THAT WOMEN NOT BE ORDAINED. NOW A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK THIS WAS BASICALLY SOMETHING WHICH IS TIME CONDITIONED, A CULTURAL CONDITIONING AND THEY THINK NOW THAT OUR CULTURE HAS ADVANCED THAT THERE MIGHT BE GOOD REASON TO OPEN UP THE QUESTION AGAIN. >> I'M NOT SO SURE THAT THAT IS THE CASE. YOU KNOW I AM NOT A PERSON WHO HAS STUDIED THE EXEGESIS BEHIND THIS BUT I WOULD SAY IN MY OPINION JESUS AND THE EARLY CHURCH TAUGHT THAT ORDINATION WAS RESTRICTED TO MEN. BUT ALSO I WOULD ALSO SAY THE CHURCH ITSELF -- THIS IS MY SECOND REASON -- HAS TAUGHT IT CONSISTENTLY AS ITS DISCIPLINE AND HOPE BENEDICT, AND I DON'T SEE HOW YOU CAN BE MUCH MORE CLEAR ABOUT THIS, HE HAS GIVEN A VERY CLEAR ARTICULATION OF IT, A VERY -- WELL RECENTLY ENOUGH WITH ALL OF THE REASONS FOR WHY HE THINKS IT'S THE CASE, AND EVEN WHY HE THINKS IT'S THE CASE THAT THIS WAS THE WILL OF JESUS, SO I PROBABLY SAY I DON'T THINK SO. I MEAN I WOULD BE REALLY TRULY FLABBERGASTED IF SOMETHING LIKE THAT ON THE LEVEL THAT IT HAS BEEN TAUGHT AS A DISCIPLINE FOR TWO THOUSAND YEARS, IT WOULD MAZE ME IF -- >> I KNOW A WOMAN WHO USED TO PREACH A LOT ON TELEVISION AND I KNOW HE IS DOESN'T THINK IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN. THAT'S THE WAY SHE FEELS TODAY AS WELL. >> I KNOW WHO YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. >> SHE WAS NOT IN FAVOR OF THAT. IT DID NOT SEEM TO STOP HER FROM GETTING HER MESSAGE ACROSS. >> SHE GOT HER MESSAGE OUT THERE JUST FINE. MOTHER ANGELICA WAS A FORCE OF NATURE AND OF THE SPIRITUAL WORLD. SHE WAS VERY MUCH -- WHEN I LOOK AT -- FRANKLY MOST OF THE MAJOR -- MANY OF THE MAJOR IF NOT MOST OF THE MAJOR INFLUENTIAL SAINTS OF THE 20TH CENTURY, I MEAN, GOD GRIEF, I MEAN LOOK AT MOTHER TERESA, LOOK AT CATHERINE DAUGHERTY, LOOK AT ALSO KIARA LUBECK IS THERE ARE JUST SO MUCH -- EVEN DOROTHY DAY, IF YOU LOOK AT JUST THE NUMBER OF INFLUENTIAL SPIRITUAL -- >> GIANA MOLA -- >> JUST A NUMBER OF SPIRITUAL WOMEN WHO HAVE HAD ENORMOUS INFLUENCE -- AND OF COURSE MOTHER ANGELICA. I MEAN IT'S LIKE -- WOMEN DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM GETTING A VOICE IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH PARTICULARLY IF THEY'RE HOLY AND FIRM. AND HOLY THE FIRM. I MEAN FROM SAINT CATHERINE ONWARDS, I MEAN WE'RE TALKING -- THESE WOMEN WERE HOLY AND IN FIRM AND VERY FAITH FILLED. AND THEY CAN MAKE THEIR VOICES FELT. AND BELIEVE ME, EVERYONE IN THE HIERARCHY LISTENS. >> YES. VERY GOOD. ALSO WITH THAT, AND TALKING ABOUT THE CHURCH HOW DOES THE CHURCH FATHERS DOCTRINE AND PRACTICE RESEMBLE THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH TODAY? HOW DO WE SEE, YOU KNOW, THE WAY WE SEE THE CHURCH TODAY IN RELATION TO THE WAY IT WAS IN THE EARLY CHURCH? WELL, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY THERE ARE CERTAIN CONSISTENCIES BETWEEN DOCTRINES AND I'M SURE THAT'S NOT WHAT THE QUESTION IS AIMING AT. BUT THE QUESTION IS AIMING AT MORE RELIGIOUS PRACTICE, THINGS OF THAT NATURE. AND I THINK THERE SHOULD BE YOU KNOW A GREAT DEAL OF OVERLAPPING MYSELF. BECAUSE YOU KNOW WE HAVE IN OUR OFFICE OF READINGS IN THE MORNING, WE GET READINGS FROM MOST OF THE OFFICE OF READINGS. THERE'S ONE FROM, YOU KNOW, THAT COMES FROM THE SCRIPTURES AND ALSO ONES THAT COME FROM THE CHURCH FATHER, AND THE ONES THAT COME FROM THE CHURCH FATHER, I HAVE TO TELL YOU I SEE SO MUCH OF WHAT THEYCY A APPLICABLE TODAY BUT BECAUSE WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT IS GROWTH IN THE SPIRITUAL LIFE AND GROWTH IN HOLINESS, GROWTH IN CONTEMPLATION, GROWTH IN ASCETICISM, GROWTH IN SPIRITUAL DISCIPLINE, ET CETERA, ET CETERA. THEY ARE -- YOU KNOW, AND THEY'RE GIVING US REALLY GOOD REASONS FOR IT. AND THEY'RE GIVING US DEEP APPLICATIONS OF IT. SO DO I USE THEIR ADVICE ALL THE TIME? YES, I DO. BECAUSE ALL OF US WHO WANT TO GROW IN THE SPIRITUAL LIFE, EVERY ONE OF US WHO WANTS TO GET AS IT WERE THIS SORT OF INSPIRATION NOT -- YOU KNOW, TO DEEPEN OUR CONTEMPLATIVE LIFE AND DEEPEN OUR SPIRITUAL CONVICTION AND OUR SPIRITUAL DISCIPLINE, WE REALLY HAVE TO GO BACK TO THE CHURCH FATHERS. NO ONE WAS MORE ARTICULATE THAN THEY WERE. BUT BETWEEN ST. JOHN CHRISTENDOM AND SAINT GREGORY, JUST -- JUST THOSE THREE ALONE, I MEAN, HOW ARE WE GOING TO SURPASS THESE GUYS? I TELL YOU WHAT WAS SO IMPORTANT ABOUT THEM? THEY WERE THE GENUINE ARTICLE. THEY WERE HOLY. THEY WEREN'T WRITING A HOLY BOOK. THEY WERE THE GENUINE ARTICLE. AND THAT MAKES ALL OF THE DIFFERENCE. AND YOU CAN JUST FEEL IT COMING RIGHT OFF THE PAGES AT THESE GUYS NOT ONLY PRACTICED WHAT THEY PREACHED, THEY HAD THE FAITH BEHIND WHAT THEY PREACHED AND THEY WERE TRUE CONDUITS OF THE GRACE OF GOD AND THEY HAD NOT A SINGLE SCINTILLA OF DOUBT BECAUSE GOD WAS PRESENT TO THEM, JUST AS PRESENT AS THE CHAIR I'M SITTING IN. >> WELL ONE OF THE GREAT THINGS WE HAVE FOUND OVER THE YEARS AND WHEN MARCUS AND I -- MARCUS ALWAYS SAID THE THING THAT IS -- IT'S IGNORANCE OF THE HISTORY, IGNORANCE OF THE CHURCH IS WHEN YOU READ THE CHURCH FATHERS AND WHEN YOU UNDERSTAND THE HISTORY, IT'S A CATHOLIC CHURCH AND IT'S CLEAR TO ANYONE WHO IS WILLING TO GIVE IT'S A FAIR LOOK X THAT'S SO MANY OF THE RELATED STORIES CERTAINLY FROM THE JOURNEY HOME SHOW OVER THE YEARS WHICH REALLY STARTED BECAUSE MARCUS WAS ON THE SHOW WITH MOTHER ANGELICA AND MOTHER HAD ANOTHER ONE OF HER GREAT INSIGHTS AND SAID, YOU KNOW, WE NEED TO DO A PROGRAM LIKE THIS AND IT'S BEEN GOING STRONG EVER SINCE. >> ABSOLUTELY. VERY POPULAR PROGRAMS ON EWTN AND NOT ONLY THAT BUT YOU'RE RIGHT THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO ARE REALLY INFLUENCED NOT JUST BY THE HEIST OF HISTORY OF THE CHURCH BUT BY THE CHURCH FATHER SPECIFICALLY, IS CONSIDERABLE. >> RIGHT. >> NOW HERE IS A QUESTION TALKING ABOUT PRACTICE AND THINGS LIKE THAT. IT SAYS PLEASE EXPLAIN BASICALLY WHY VATICAN TWO TURNED AROUND THE ALTAR BASICALLY WHICH WAY THE PRIESTS STOOD AND THEN THEY MOVED THE ALTAR OUT AND QUESTIONS LIKE THAT. WHY -- >> YOU KNOW, FROM MY WAY OF BACKGROUND, ALL RIGHT, PRIOR TO VATICAN II, THE ALTAR FACED EAST ALONG WITH ALL OF THE PEOPLE, TOWARD THE EAST. AND THE REASON FOR THIS WAS BECAUSE HE NEVER WAS SEEN AS PRAYING TO GOD TOGETHER. SO THERE WAS THAT IDEA YOU KNOW AS IT WERE, YOU KNOW, THROUGH THE COMMUNITY TO GOD. AND AT VATICAN II, YOU KNOW, THE IDEA OF COMMUNITY, THEY WANTED IT TO ACCENT -- THEY WANTED TO ACCENT IT, THEY WANTED TO BRING IT FORWARD FOR THE REASON THAT SOMETIMES WE CAN FORGET THAT WE REALLY ARE IN A COMMUNITY AND WE CAN GET TO THAT ALMOST AUTONOMOUS -- I'M AT CHURCH BY MYSELF. WE'RE ALL IN THIS BOAT ALONE. YOU KNOW, AND SO THE IDEA IS -- TO TRY AND GET AWAY FROM THAT WE'RE ALL IN THIS BOAT ALONE, RIGHT, TO GETTING BACK TO WE ARE REALLY ALL IN THIS BOAT TOGETHER AND IN A COMMUNITY AND SO IT WAS REALLY ANOTHER WAY OF LOOKING AT TO GOD THROUGHOUT COMMUNITY. NOW THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THE CHURCH THAT WOULD PREFER TO GO BACK TO AD ORIENTEM TO GOD AS A COMMUNITY RATHER THAN HAVING A SENSE THAT WE ARE A COMMUNITY PRAYING TO GOD. SO I GUESS YOU MIGHT SAY, YOU KNOW THAT IT REALLY IS A MATTER OF PREFERENCE. >> DO YOU HAVE A PREFERENCE? >> WELL, I ACTUALLY DO NOT MIND, YOU KNOW, THE ALTAR FACING THE PEOPLE BUT I'M ALSO PERFECTLY AT HOME AD ORIENTEM, FACING EAST AS WELL, AND TO MY MIND. THE KEY QUESTION, I THINK, THAT THE CHURCH FATHERS WERE TRYING TO ANSWER WHICH I ALSO WOULD TRY TO ANSWER IS, WELL, YOU KNOW WHEREAS IT THAT THE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO RESPOND TO THAT TRULY WILL NOT UNDERMINE THEIR FAITH. IN OTHER WORDS, IF I REALLY THOUGHT THAT THE ALTAR FACING THE PEOPLE WAS GOING TO SOMEHOW DISTRACT FROM THEIR PRAYING TO GOD, THEN I WOULD BE ODD ORIENTUM 24/7 BECAUSE I DON'T WANT THE FOCUS TAKEN OFF OF GOD BUT I NEVER FELT THAT WAS THE CASE BECAUSE WHAT WAS GOING ON WAS THAT EUCHARIST WAS BEING CELEBRATED -- THE EUCHARIST, YOU KNOW, THE COMING OF JESUS INTO OUR -- WAS BEING CELEBRATED THERE AT THE ALTAR AND THEY WERE ACTUALLY WITNESSES OF THAT AND SO IN A WAY WHEN WEEP LEAK AT THE EARLY SERVICES OF THE CHURCH COMMUNITY, THEY WEREN'T THAT WAY. IT STARTED AS FELLOWSHIP AND IT SOON MOVED INTO AN ALTAR AND WHEN THE ALTAR GOT MOVED IN A SINGLE DIRECTION WITH THE PEOPLE BEHIND, I'M NOT SURE WHEN THAT MOVE ACTUALLY HAPPENED. BUT THAT WAS THE ORDER OF THE CHURCH PROBABLY FOR A GOOD 19 HUNDRED YEARS AND THEN WHEN THE ALTAR WAS TURNED AROUND. LIKE I SAID, I DON'T THINK IT'S DISTRACTING PEOPLE FROM GOD. I DON'T THINK HAVING THE PRIEST, DEFACING THE PEOPLE IS GETTING HIM TO FOCUS ON HIM RATHER THAN GOD THROUGH HIM BECAUSE HE IS ALTER CHRISTOUS AFTER ALL AND I DON'T THINK IT'S RUINING EITHER THE SACRAMENT OR THE PRESENCE OF GOD. IN A WAY IT MAY ENHANCE THE SACRAMENTAL DIMENSION IN THE SENSE THAT PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY SEEING THE CELEBRATION OF THE SACRAMENT ITSELF. BUT, LIKE I SAID, IT REALLY IS A MATTER OF PREFERENCE BUT IF I -- IF I OVER THOUGHT THAT PEOPLE WERE SOMEHOW BEING DIS TRACKED FROM GOD BY LOOKING AT ME RATHER THAN GOD -- >> RIGHT THAT YOU WERE THE MAIN ATTRACTION AND THE ENTERTAINER. >> RIGHT. THEN I WOULD BE AD ORIENTEM 24/7 BUT I DON'T THINK THAT IS OCCURRING. AND I KNOW PEOPLE ARE MANAGING THEIR KIDS AND DOING A MILLION OTHER THINGS AT THAT TIME ARE TRYING TO TO GO ON. I THINK SOME MUSIC IS MUCH MORE CONDUCIVE TO PRAYER AND TO GOD THAN OTHER MUSIC AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE. BUT I THINK THAT THE ALTAR FACING PEOPLE IS NOT A BAD THING. >> OKAY. WE HAVE ONE LAST QUESTION HERE AS WE'RE JUST ABOUT OUT OF TIME. SO WE WILL GIVE YOU -- THIS WAS THE EASIEST QUESTION SO I WILL GIVE YOU THE LEAST AMOUNT OF TIME. DO YOU FIND SAINT THOM'S FIVE WAYS TO FIND OF EXISTENCE OF GOD COMPELLING? AND WHICH ONE IS THE BEST. THAT'S FROM PART TWO. >> NOW IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT -- FRESHMEN AND SOPHOMORES IN HIGH SCHOOL, YES. IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE WITH NOR DEVELOPED CRITICAL INTELLECT YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER THE FIVE WAYS OF THOMAS ARE NOT HIS REAL PROOFS OF GOD. THEY'RE SUMMARIES OF HIS PROOFS OF GOD. THEY'RE VERY BRIEF SUMMERS OF HIS PROVES OF GOD. SO, IN OTHER WORDS, HE GIVE US THE STEPS IN THE PROOF. BUT YOU KNOW, HE DOESN'T TELL YOU-ALL OF THE RATIONALE FOR THE PROOF. SO WHEN HE SAYS AND ALL PEOPLE KNOW THIS TO BE GOD, YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE ONE + ONE = TWO THEREFORE = MC SQUARED. DO ALL MEN KNOW THIS TO BE GOD? IN OUR CULTURE THE ANSWER IS NO. YOU HAVE TO PROVE IT. SO WHAT I DO, LIKE CREDIBLECATHOLIC.COM IF YOU GO TO VOLUME ONE OF THE BIG BOOK THERE I WILL GIVE YOU A FULL ON TOTALLY PROVED METAPHYSICAL ARGUMENT. SO THE FIRST STEP OF ALL OF THESE ARGUMENTS IS THERE HAS TO BE AT LEAST AT LEAST ONE UNCAUSED REALITY IN THE HEEL OF REALITY. STEP TWO IS TO SHOW THAT THE UNCAUSED REALITY WHICH EXISTS THROUGH IT'S SELF HAS TO BE AN UNRESTRICTEDLY INTELLIGIBLE REALITY. AND UNRESTRICTED REALITY CAN BE ONE AND ONLY ONE. NOW BY THE THIRD STEP YOU KNOW THAT THERE'S ONE AND ONLY ONE UNCAUSED REALITY AND THEN YOU FIND OUT THAT THE UNRESTRICTED INTELLIGIBLE REALITY HAS TO BE ONE OF THINKING AND THEN FINALLY YOU GET TO THE FACT THAT IT HAS TO BE THE CONSTANT CREATOR OF EVERYTHING ELSE THAT IS. SO YOU PROVE FIVE STEPS. IF I JUST GIVE YOU THOSE FIVE STEPS, THAT WOULD BE LIKE U FIVE WAYS ARE STATED IN THE THEOLOGICAL. >> WE HAVE TO LEAVE IT THERE BECAUSE WE HAVE RESTRICTED REALITY AND THAT MEANS THAT WE HAVE TO END THIS WONDERFUL PROGRAM. WE THANK SO MUCH THE AUDIENCE WHO SUPPLIED US WITH WONDERFUL QUESTIONS. WE THANK YOU AS ALWAYS FATHER SPITZER TO ALLOW US INTO YOUR UNIVERSE EACH WEEK ON WEDNESDAY AT EWTN. AND THE EWTN FAMILY CELEBRATION COMING UP IN DENVER IN SEPTEMBER, NEXT MONTH, SO LOOK FORWARD TO THAT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH AND SEE YOU NEXT TIME. AS HE GIVE US YOU EVER BLESSING WE WILL LEAVE OUR SHOW HERE. >> MAY ALMIGHTY GOD SEND HIS HOLY SPIRIT DOWN UPON YOU, HIS SPIRITS OF WISDOM, HIS SPIRIT OF TRUTH, HIS SPIRIT OF OBEDIENCE AND SURRENDER TO HER TO HIS GOOD AND LOVING AND WISE WILL IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER AND THE SON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT. >> AMEN. >> WITH THAT, WE WILL SEE YOU NEXT TIME AT THE INTERSECTION OF FAITH AND REASON. WE WILL BE WAITING. [MUSIC]
