[♪] >> Doug: HELLO AND WELCOME ONCE AGAIN TO "FR. SPITZER'S UNIVERSE" WHERE WE INTERACT FAITH AND REASON AND SOME IDEAS COLLIDE AS WELL. I'M DOUG KECK YOUR HOST THAT COMES TO YOU FROM THE EWTN STUDIOS FROM THE HEART OF IRONDALE STUDIOS, MOTHER ANGELICA WAY. WE CONTINUE ON, CHAPTER 5, FEAR IS USELESS, MITIGATING FEAR AND CHOOSING CONSOLATION. AGAIN, WE BEGAN LAST WEEK TALKING ABOUT THE CHAPTER AND HOPEFULLY WE'LL HAVE QUESTIONS FROM YOU. AND YOU CAN EMAIL US QUESTIONS AT spitzersuniverse@ewtn.com. POST YOUR QUESTIONS ON FACEBOOK AT THE ADDRESS ON YOUR SCREEN. SEND US A TWEET AT THE ADDRESS ON YOUR SCREEN. NOW, AS WELL AS THE MAGIS CENTER, WEB SITE, THE ONE AND ONLY PLACE, ALL THINGS FATHER SPITZER RESIDES IN HIS UNIVERSE, magiscenter.com. NOW, WE'VE GOT THE ALL FREE FAMILY CELEBRATION. DID I MENTION THE WORD FREE? RIGHT, DOESN'T COST ANYTHING. JUST SHOW UP NOVEMBER 9, 10 AND THAT'S IN WORCESTER MASSACHUSETTS, THE PLACE THAT EWTN, ewtn.com YOU CAN FIND OUT ALL ABOUT THIS. AND YOU CAN FIND OUT FROM FATHER PACWA, FATHER MITCH PACWA. AND HE'LL BE THE JESUIT. AND WE'LL MOVE TO OUR JESUIT TO FATHER SPITZER, IN ORANGE COUNTY, BEAUTIFUL CAMPUS OF CHRIST CATHEDRAL IN ORANGE COUNTY, WONDERFUL DIOCESE OF ORANGE. DON'T FORGET, WE'RE GOING THROUGH FATHER'S NEW BOOK ON SUFFERING, AVAILABLE TO THE EWTN RELIGIOUS CATALOG, AND YOU CAN GET THIS BOOK, IT'S PART OF A WHOLE QUARTET. AND WE LOVE FOR YOU TO GET ALL FOUR OF FATHER'S BOOKS IF YOU ARE SO INCLINED. BUT IF YOU ARE NOT, AT LEAST, WITH ONE, YOU CAN PICK A SPOT OUT BECAUSE WE'RE GOING CHAPTER BY CHAPTER. AND WELCOME, FATHER, WE'LL SEE YOU AGAIN. HOPE YOU ARE HAD A GREAT WEEK. >> OH, YEAH, A GREAT WEEK. OKAY. WELL, LET'S TALK ABOUT, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CHAPTER 5. AND BEFORE WE GET TO OUR FIRST QUESTION HERE, I WANTED TO TALK ABOUT THE IDEA THAT IN THE BOOK, YOU TALK ABOUT THE, IN A REMARKABLE PASSAGE. YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT FROM THE LETTER OF JOHN. NO FEAR IN LOVE BUT PERFECT LOVE CASTS OUT FEAR FOR FEAR HAS TO DO WITH PUNISHMENT AND HE WHO FEARS IS NOT PERFECTED IN LOVE. AND HERE, YOU SAY THIS IS DEFUNCT IN LIGHT OF THE PERFECT LOVE OF GOD. AND IS THAT WHY OUR LORD REALLY TALKS ABOUT WHY WE SHOULDN'T BE AND WE THINK OF ST. JOHN PAUL II CALL OUT TO SAY, BE NOT AFRAID. >> Father: EXACTLY. THINK WHAT THE LORD WAS TRYING TO SAY IS, IF WE'RE PREOCCUPIED WITH FEAR AND WE'RE PREOCCUPIED SPECIFICALLY WITH THE FEAR OF PUNISHMENT, WHAT HAPPENS IS THAT IT PRODUCES A DEFENSIVENESS INSTEAD OF, YOU KNOW, THAT MOVEMENT OUTWARD TO PEOPLE. WHEN YOU ARE DEFENSIVE, YOU TURN INWARD AND CONSTANTLY LOOKING AT HOW SOMETHING IS GOING TO EFFECT YOU. WHEREAS, IF YOU CAN ABANDON FEAR BY TRUST ANYTHING GOD, RIGHT, THAT'S THE PHRASE OF JESUS, FEAR IS USELESS, WHAT IS NEEDED IS TRUST. IF YOU ABANDON FEAR IN THE TRUST OF GOD, TRUST IN HIS UNCONDITIONAL LOVE. YOU ARE TRYING TO STAY ON THE ROAD TO SALVATION, RIGHT? AND YOU ARE TRYING AS BEST YOU CAN TO FOLLOW HIS WAY AND BE PERFECTED IN LOVE. AND A WHOLE DIFFERENT ATTITUDE HAPPENS. RIGHT? YOU JUST LOSE THE DEFENSIVENESS. THE DEFENSIVENESS ABOUT LIFE. THE DEFENSIVENESS ABOUT MORTIFICATION. THE DEFENSIVENESS ABOUT WHAT SOMEBODY IS GOING TO DO TO ME. THE DEFENSIVENESS OF, WELL, MAYBE SOMEBODY DID DO SOMETHING TO ME. ET CETERA. ET CETERA. WHATEVER THOSE DEFENSE ARE THAT KEEP US BUILDING WALLS AND BUILDING WALLS, WE INSTEAD LOOK AT LIFE AS AN OPPORTUNITY. AS AN ADVENTURE AND IT'S LIKE, ST. FRANCIS WHEN HE'S FINALLY, YOU KNOW, LIBERATED AFTER HIS EXPERIENCE AT SAN DAMIANO AND WITH THE LEOPARD. AND HE LOSES HIS FEAR AND WHAT HAPPENS GOING TO HAPPEN TO ME IF HE SAYS, OH, GOD IS GOING TO PUNISH ME. AND INSTEAD, HE JUST DECIDES, I'M GOING TO TRUST IN GOD. WELL, LEAD ME. AND BOY DID THE LORD LEAD HIM. RIGHT ALMOST TO THE POINT OF CONVERTING, THE SULTAN OF EGYPT. SO, WHEN YOU REALLY LOOK AT IT, YOU KNOW, SAINT JOHN IS RIGHT. WE HAVE THIS PERFECT OPPORTUNITY TO LIVE IN EXTRAORDINARY LIFE OF LOVE BY TRUSTING IN GOD'S UNCONDITIONAL LOVE AND ABANDONING FEAR. AND I THINK THAT'S, SAINT JOHN IS LEADING US. >> AND RIGHT. YOU SAY HERE THAT WHEN WE TRY TO LIVE IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE LOVE OF JESUS, WE'LL BE CONFIDENT IN HIS UNCONDITIONAL LOVE AND BY DOING SO, BE CONFIDENT THAT HE DESIRES TO PUNISH RATHER TO SAVE US RESERVEDLY SO THAT IDEA OF GETTING THAT CONFIDENCE AND TRUST IN THE LORD. >> Father: EXACTLY. AND IF YOU ARE TRYING TO FOLLOW THE LORD, RIGHT, AND YOU WIND UP PRAYING MORE OFTEN. AND YOU WIND UP MAYBE LOOKING AT THE WORD OF GOD AND TRYING TO FOLLOW HIM IN HIS BEATITUDES, IN PARTICULAR, WELL, IF YOU ARE TRYING TO BE GENTLE-HEARTED, YOU ARE GOING TO KNOW HOW TRANSFORMATIVE THAT IS. IT'S GOING TO OCCUR TO YOU AT SOME POINT, GENTLE-HEARTED IS ONE OF THE BEATITUDES. IT'S CALLED MEEK. BUT IT REALLY MEANS GENTLE-HEARTED. AND YOU ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO SEE IN THE FUTURE, WELL, GOD IS GENTLE-HEARTED. HE'S NOT ASKING ME TO BE GENTLE-HEARTED IN ISOLATION. IT'S BECAUSE HE'S THAT WAY. IN FACT, HE'S INFINITELY THAT WAY. AND YOU SAY, I'M TRYING TO BE HUMBLE-HEARTED. POOR IN SPIRIT. THAT'S WHAT THAT MEANS, HUMBLE-HEARTED. AND IF YOU DO THAT, IT'S GOING TO OCCUR TO YOU THAT THAT'S THE WAY GOD IS. HE DIDN'T ASK THIS OF US IN A VACUUM. IT'S BECAUSE HE'S THAT WAY. AND HE KNOWS THIS IS WHAT'S GOING TO BRING US HAPPINESS. AND YOU ARE GOING TO SUDDENLY SAY, GOD IT'S NOT JUST HUMBLE-HEARTED. HE'S INFINITELY GENTLE-HEARTED AND HUMBLE-HEARTED AND COMPASSIONATE, MERCIFUL AND FORGIVING. RIGHT? THAT'S THE WHOLE THING, BLESSED ARE THE MERCIFUL, MERCY SHALL BE THERE'S. AND HE'S INFINITELY INTERESTED IN BRINGING US TO SALVATION, ZEALOUS FOR SOULS AND FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS. SO, WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT, IT SUDDENLY BEGINS TO OCCUR TO YOU. HEY WAIT A MINUTE. WHY DID JESUS ASK US TO, YOU KNOW, TO FOLLOW THE BEATITUDES. WELL, REALLY SIMPLY BECAUSE THE MORE WE FOLLOW THE BEATITUDES, THE MORE WE FIGURE OUT THAT GOD IS THAT WAY. AND THE MORE WE FIGURE OUT THAT WE DON'T HAVE TO FEAR HIM. IF GOD IS REALLY INFINITELY HUMBLE-HEARTED AND GENTLE-HEARTED AND INFINITELY FORGIVING AND INFINITELY A PEACEMAKER AND INFINITELY AUTHENTIC OF HEART, WE DON'T HAVE TO FEAR HIM. HE'S JUST GOING TO BE LIKE THE FATHER OF THE PRODIGAL SON THAT WE SEE IN THE GOSPEL OF LUKE. AND WHAT WE'RE GOING TO FIND IS THAT, YOU KNOW, INSTEAD OF HAVING TO FEAR HIM, ALL WE GOT TO DO IS TRUST HIM. KEEP TRYING TO STAY ON THE PATH. KEEP ASKING FOR FORGIVENESS WHEN WE FAIL. AND JUST OPEN OURSELVES TO THE OPPORTUNITY THAT HE PRESENTS TO US ON THE ROAD TO SALVATION. AND THEY ARE MANY. SO, IT'S JUST A WHOLE DIFFERENT WAY OF LIFE. LOOKS LIKE CHAPTER 6. I TALK ABOUT FIVE SAINTS THAT LIVED THAT WAY. >> Doug: OKAY. WE'LL LOOK FORWARD TO THAT, IN THE COMING WEEKS. A LITTLE PREVIEW THERE. NOW, LET ME ASK YOU THIS ALSO. YOU KIND OF ELUDED TO IT IN WHAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THE TRANSLATION, IF SOMEBODY SAID GENTLE-HEARTED, AND THEN SOMEBODY SAID MEEK, THEY SAY THAT'S SIMILAR BUT NOT EXACTLY THE SAME. WE TEND TO THINK OF MEEKNESS AS SOME DEGREE, SOMETIMES A FUNCTION OF SOMEBODY BEING INSECURE, UNSURE, SHY, NOT WANTING TO RISK THE GENTLE-HEARTED PERSON AND THEN, YOU KNOW, MAYBE ONE HENCE SLOW TO JUDGE OR SLOW TO VOICE A NEGATIVE OPINION. >> Father: NO. IN FACT, THOUGH, YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. BUT I ALWAYS JUST REFUSE TO TRANSLATE THE GREEK WORD AS MEEK BECAUSE IT HAS SO MANY NEGATIVE CONNOTATIONS. EVEN MILK TOAST. JUST SORT OF A PERSON THAT'S JUST A BIG OLE NOODLE. AND SO, YOU KNOW, I DON'T DO THAT AT ALL. BUT IF YOU TURN TO MATTHEW 11, YOU ARE GOING TO SEE THE SAME GREEK WORD AND TRANSLATED AT GENTLE OF HEART. SO, TURN TO ME ALL YOU WHO ARE WEARY AND FIND BURDENS AND I'LL REFRESH YOU. AND HE GOES ON TO SAY, FOR I AM GENTLE. SAME GREEK WORD, GENTLE AND HUMBLE OF HEART. SO, RIGHT THERE, WE GET THE ASSURANCE THAT JESUS IS NOT JUST ASKING US TO BE GENTLE-HEARTED AND HUMBLE-HEARTED. YOU KNOW, HE'S MEEK FOR TODAY'S TRANSLATION. RIGHT, BETTER TO USE GENTLE-HEARTED. >> Doug: VERY GOOD. NOW, WE GOT AN EMAIL. THEY SAID, ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE NEVER HEARD OF THE GOSPELS DOOMED TO BE LOST, AND NEVER BE IN THE PRESENCE OF GOD? ARE THEY CONDEMNED? WILL PEOPLE OF OTHER FAITHS GO TO HEAVEN? THIS IS FROM ANN. >> Father: YES, ANN, WE'RE TOLD NOT ONLY IN THE GOSPEL OF JOHN IN TWO DIFFERENT PLACES BUT IN ALL OF OUR DOCUMENTS FROM THE SECOND VATICAN COUNCIL, THE MOST IMPORTANT DOCUMENT WE HAVE FROM THE VATICAN COUNCIL IS THE DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION OF THE CHURCH. AND IN THAT DOCUMENT, THERE'S A WHOLE SECTION IN THERE ABOUT PEOPLE FROM OTHER FAITHS. I'LL PARAPHRASE IT BUT YOU CAN GO TO MY BOOK AND GO TO CHAPTER 1. YOU CAN GET THE ACTUAL QUOTE FROM THE SECOND VATICAN COUNCIL. BUT ESSENTIALLY, IT GOES LIKE THIS, THAT PEOPLE OF OTHER FAITHS WHO ARE TRYING TO FOLLOW GOD AS BEST THEY CAN, ACCORDING TO WHAT THEY HAVE HEARD AND THE DICTATES OF THEIR OWN CONSCIENCE, THEY TOO ARE ELIGIBLE FOR SALVATION THROUGH THE REDEMPTIVE ACT OF JESUS CHRIST. SO, DEFINITELY, THE VATICAN COUNCIL, NO ONE CAN BE CONDEMNED BECAUSE OF AN ACCIDENT OF BIRTH. SO, MAYBE THEY WERE BORN IN A COUNTRY WHERE THEY NEVER WOULD HAVE HEARD THE GOSPEL. OR EVEN IF THEY WOULD HAVE HEARD THE GOSPEL, THEY NEVER COULD HAVE DONE IT IN A CONTEXT TRAL CONTEXT OF BEING IN FAVOR OF THAT. IT WOULD COMPLETELY BOUNCE OFF THE OLD EAR. SO, THEY ARE NOT GOING TO BE CONDEMNED AT ALL. IF THEY ARE TRYING TO FOLLOW GOD AND REMEMBER, ACCORDING TO THE MOST RECENT PUGH SURVEY, 86% OF THE WORLD IS STILL FUNDAMENTALLY RELIGIOUS AND LOOKING TO A RELIGIOUS OBJECTIVE FOR THEIR LIVES. RIGHT? SO, YES, YES, IN WESTERN EUROPE, WE HAVE A PROBLEM. AND YES, THAT PROBLEM IS EXTENDING TO THE UNITED STATES, NO DOUBT. AND SOME COUNTRIES OF ASIA, YOU HAVE PROBLEMS. BUT BOY 86% ARE STILL FUNDAMENTALLY ARE RELIGIOUS AND IF THEY ARE TRYING TO FOLLOW GOD, AS BEST THEY KNOW HOW, FROM THEIR RELIGION OR FROM THEIR CULTURE AND THEY ARE FOLLOWING THE DICTATES OF THEIR CONSCIENCE. THAT'S THE INTERIOR LAW WITHIN THEM THAT ST. PAUL TALKS ABOUT IN THE LETTER TO THE ROMANS. IF THEY ARE DOING THESE THINGS, THEY TOO ARE ELIGIBLE FOR SALVATION THROUGH THE REDEMPTIVE ACT OF JESUS CHRIST. SO, THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION IS, NO, THEY ARE NOT GOING TO BE CONDEMNED AND YES, THEY ARE ELIGIBLE FOR SALVATION AND BY THE WAY, VATICAN COUNCIL DIDN'T SAY THIS, IN A VACUUM BUT THE VOLCANO COUNCIL IN THE HIGHEST DOCUMENT, LUMEN GENTIUM, DOGMATIC COUNCIL OF THE CHURCH, BECAUSE IT'S IN THE GOSPEL, AGAIN, YOU HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL, LAST WEEK'S SHOW, WE TALKED ABOUT, RIGHT, TAKING A PASSAGE OUT OF ISOLATION WITHOUT LOOKING AT ALL OF THE OTHER PASSAGES. AND IF YOU TAKE A PASSAGE, ONE OF THE PASSAGES FROM JOHN'S GOSPEL, YOU MIGHT THINK THAT SOMEBODY WAS CONDEMNED FOR NOT HEARING THE WORD OF GOD. BUT IN POINT OF FACT, IF YOU JUST READ A CHAPTER AND A HALF MORE, YOU SEE TWO PASSAGES WHICH COMPLETELY CONTRAVENE IT AND THE CHURCH HAS DONE ALL OF YOUR HOME WORK FOR YOU. EVENTUALLY ASSEMBLED ALL OF THE PASSAGES AND GUIDED YOU TO WHAT'S IN THE DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION. AND BY THE WAY, IF YOU WANT TO SEE ANOTHER PASSAGE ON THE SECOND VATICAN COUNCIL, ANOTHER ONE GAUDIUM ET SPES, CONSTITUTION OF THE CHURCH AND NOT CARRYING AS MUCH MAGISTERIAL WEIGHT AS LUMEN GENTIUM BUT IT TALKS ABOUT HOW GOD USING THE HOLY SPIRIT. REMEMBER, THE HOLY SPIRIT IS NOT INDWELLING IN AN UNBAPTIZED PERSON. BUT THE HOLY SPIRIT IS WORKING THROUGH THEM AND GUIDING THEM BOTH INDIVIDUALLY AND COLLECTIVELY. SO, THE VATICAN COUNCIL TALKS ABOUT HOW THE SPIRIT IS WORKING IN THEIR LIVES TOO. SO, YEAH, GOD HAS NOT ABANDONED ANYBODY. AND CERTAINLY GOD IS NOT GOING TO CONDEMN SOMEBODY FOR AN ACCIDENT OF BIRTH THAT THEY ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR. THAT'S IN THE GOSPEL. AND CERTAINLY, THE REASON IN THE SECOND AND THIRD CENTURIES THAT WE GET THE DEVELOPMENT OF A DOCTRINE CALLED BAPTISM BY DESIRE IS TO TRY TO RESOLVE EARLY ON THESE KIND OF DIFFICULTIES THAT YOU ARE POINTING OUT. SO, IT'S A GREAT QUESTION, ANN. BUT THAT'S NORTH OF A LONG ANSWER TO IT. >> Doug: IN A SITUATION LIKE THAT, YOU HEAR, LIKE THAT ANSWER TODAY. AND THEY SAY, WELL, IF THAT'S THE CASE, I'M BETTER OFF NOT BOTHERING THESE PEOPLE. THEY DON'T KNOW THAT MUCH ABOUT IT. THEY ULTIMATELY GO TO HEAVEN ANY WAY AND THEY SEEM PERFECTLY HAPPY WHERE THEY ARE. SO, YOU KNOW, DO I REALLY NEED TO DO ANYTHING? OR AM I JUST DISTURBING THEM? WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO SOMEBODY TODAY WHO MIGHT SAY THAT. >> Father: THAT'S A REALLY GOOD QUESTION. I BRING THIS UP IN CHAPTER 7 OF THE THIRD VOLUME OF THE QUARTET, NOT TO BEAT MY OWN DRUM HERE. BUT IT'S CALLED GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD. AND IN CHAPTER 7, I TAKE UP THIS QUESTION FOR A VERY, VERY LENGTHY SPACE BECAUSE IT'S IMPORTANT. HERE IS THE BRIEF ANSWER. EVERY SINGLE HUMAN BEING DESERVES TO KNOW THAT GOD IS UNCONDITIONAL LOVE, THAT JESUS CHRIST, THE FULLNESS OF HIS REVELATION IS THAT GOD IS UNCONDITIONAL LOVE. SO, NOBODY NEEDS ANYMORE TO LIVE UNDER A PARTIAL REVELATION. I MEAN, IF WE GET OUR MISSIONARIES OUT THERE AND WE DO OUR THING, WHY WOULD WE THINK THAT GOD IS UNCONDITIONAL? WHY WOULD WE LET PEOPLE LIVE IN A THING THAT GOD IS UP THERE SAYING, H-MM, SPITZER, HEAVEN? HELL? HEAVEN? HELL? HELL FOR SPITZER. NO, NO GOD DOESN'T DO ANYTHING LIKE THAT. PAUL SAYS HE'S A PURE YES. EVERYBODY DESERVES THE PURE YES. AND EVERYBODY DESERVES TO HEAR THAT GOD IS UNCONDITIONAL LOVE. EVERYBODY DESERVES TO HEAR THAT GOD IS NOT DISINTERESTED IN THEM. EVERYBODY DESERVES TO HEAR THAT GOD IS NOT JUST GOING TO LEAVE YOU ALONE TO YOUR OWN DEVICES. RIGHT? EVERYBODY DESERVES TO KNOW THAT GOD GOING TO FORGIVE YOU. 75 TIMES 7 TIMES WHICH MEANS AN INCESSANT NUMBER OF TIMES AND BRING YOU BACK INTO THE RODEO. AND EVERYBODY DESERVES TO HEAR WITH THE SACRAMENTS. AND EVERYBODY DESERVES TO HEAR THAT THE SON OF GOD CAME INTO THE WORLD TO GIVE OF HIMSELF TO FORGIVE OUR SINS AND GIVE OF HIMSELF IN THE HOLY EUCHARIST AND WE CAN STILL RECEIVE THE HOLY EUCHARIST, THE VERY BODY AND BLOOD OF GOD, UNCONDITIONAL LOVE. EVERYBODY DESERVES TO HEAR ALL OF THESE THINGS. AND TO LIVE A LIFE OF LOVE, IN IMITATION OF IT. AND TO LIVE A LIFE OF PEACE. WHY WOULD WE LET ANYONE LIVE IN A HALF-BAKED SITUATION WHERE THEY ARE SIMPLY ROLLING AROUND BETWEEN FEAR AND DESPAIR WHERE THEY THINK THAT THEY ARE IMITATING GOD WHEN THEY GO BACK OUT AND KILL INNOCENT PEOPLE, THAT THIS COULD BE GOD'S WILL. WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD WE NOT WANT TO BRING THE FULLNESS OF REVELATION IN JESUS CHRIST TO EVERYBODY. BOTHER? WE BETTER BOTHER BECAUSE I THINK THAT IT'S NOT JUST, I DON'T THINK GOD IS GOING TO SEND PEOPLE TO HELL FOR LIVING UNDER A MISIMPRESSION ABOUT WHO HE IS OR WHAT SALVATION IS. BUT I DO THINK THIS. WHY WOULD WE LET THAT PERSON LIVE IN THAT KIND OF TREPIDATION. WHY WOULD WE LET THAT PERSON LIVE BELIEVING THAT GOD WOULD LET THEM KILL A CHILD AND SO FORTH. WHY WOULD WE LIVE, LET PEOPLE DO THAT? AND BY THE WAY, THIS WORLD PEACE, IS THAT GOING TO RISE AND FALL ON CHRISTIAN MISSIONARIES? ABSOLUTELY IT IS. WHERE IN THE WORLD DID THE TRANSFORMATION OF WORLD CULTURE COME FROM? DID IT COME FROM SOMETHING WITHIN ROME ITSELF. DID IT COME FROM ANY OTHER RELIGION? NO. IT'S JUST CHRISTIANITY THAT TAKES THE DOCTRINE OF HELPING OTHER PEOPLE BEYOND THE TRIBE. IT TAKES THE DOCTRINE, WHATSOEVER YOU DO FOR THE LEAST OF MY BROTHERS, YOU DO UNTO ME. IT'S CHRISTIANITY THAT TRANSFORM THE EMPIRE, OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE, UNDERMINES FUNDAMENTALLY SLAVERY THAT BRINGS OUT, RIGHT, EDUCATION TO THE SLAVES AND PUBLIC HEALTHCARE AND WELFARE TO THE SLAVES. THE LARGEST INTERNATIONAL EDUCATIONAL INSTITUTIONS IN THE WORLD TODAY IS THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. AND LARGEST HEALTHCARE IS CATHOLIC CHURCH. LARGEST PUBLIC WELFARE SYSTEM IS THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. SO, IT'S NOT JUST THE RELIGIOUS CONSEQUENCES. THERE'S HUGE SOCIAL CONSEQUENCES, EDUCATIONAL CONSEQUENCES. WORLD PEACE CONSEQUENCES OF GETTING THE WORD OUT ABOUT WHAT JESUS CHRIST ASKS OF US. AND BY THE BY, THERE'S ABSOLUTELY NO RECORD OF THE GOLDEN RULE BEING OUT THERE IN ANY OTHER WAY OTHER THAN THROUGH THE TEACHING OF JESUS CHRIST. WHAT CULTURES HAD WAS THE SILVER RULE. AND THE SILVER RULE IS ETHICAL MINIMALISM. DO NOT DO UNTO OTHERS WHAT YOU WOULD NOT HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU. DON'T DO UNNECESSARY HARM TO OTHERS THAT YOU DON'T WANT DONE TO YOU. AVOID UNNECESSARY HARMS. IF A HARM IS UNAVOIDABLE, THEN MINIMIZE IT. AND THAT'S IN EVERY RELIGION, CULTURE, AND FINDING IT EVEN IN THE OLD TESTAMENT, BUDDHISM, HINDUISM AND THERE'S NO PROBLEM THERE. BUT JESUS DOES SOMETHING REALLY, REALLY WEIRD. AND HE TAKES THE KNOTS, REALLY GOOD BY THE WAY, AND TAKES THE KNOTS AND TURNS THE SILVER RULE INTO THE GOLDEN RULE. DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU. THAT MEANS, DO THE GOOD FOR OTHERS THAT YOU WANT DONE TO YOU. IN OTHER WORDS, WHEN YOU START DOING IT, THE SKY IS THE LIMIT AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO LIMIT YOURSELF BY AVOIDING UNNECESSARY HARMS. WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE IS LITERALLY DOING THE GOOD FOR ANOTHER HUMAN BEING OR OTHER HUMAN BEINGS. YOU WANT DONE TO YOU. WHERE'S THE LIMIT? IT'S A PURE ALTRUISM. AND WHEN YOU START LOOKING AT THESE, YOU KNOW, PHRASES OF JESUS THEY ARE ABSOLUTELY CULTURE TRANSFORMING. WORLD TRANSFORMATIVE. WORLD PEACE TRANSFORMATIVE. AND WE'RE TALKING, OH, PEOPLE SAY, OH, WELL, THANKS TO JESUS, WE GOT A WELFARE STATE. YEAH, THANKS TO JESUS, WE'VE GOT INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS, POLITICAL RIGHTS, GOT ECONOMIC JUSTICE, WE GOT THE CHURCH'S SOCIAL TEACHING. YES, WE GOT A WELFARE STATE, TOO. BUT OF COURSE, THOSE THINGS, RIGHT, WE CAN ARGUE ABOUT THE DETAILS OF POLITICS. WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THERE IS A FUNDAMENTAL ATTITUDE TO TRY TO GIVE PEOPLE THE GOODS THAT WE WOULD WANT DONE TO THEM. WHY WOULDN'T WE WANT TO GET THIS OUT TO THE WORLD. LET THE CHRISTIAN MISSIONARIES BRING THIS. WHATSOEVER YOU DO TO THE LEAST OF MY BRETHREN YOU DO UNTO ME. THAT INCLUDES THE SLAVES. YOU ARE TALKING TO A CULTURE, RIGHT? SLAVERY IS EVERYWHERE PRESENT. AND WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS, DON'T DO THIS TO THE IMPOVERISHED. DON'T DO THIS. WE WANT CHRISTIAN MISSIONARIES TO BOTHER BECAUSE IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT SPREADING THE CATHOLIC FAITH. OF COURSE, YOU ARE SPREADING CHRISTIAN FAITH. AND OF COURSE, THAT'S GOING TO BRING PEACE, CONSOLATION, AND THE AVOIDANCE OF DESPAIR AND BRING A MESSAGE OF HOPE, BRING A MESSAGE OF, NOT JUST TRANSFORMING INTO INDIVIDUAL PEOPLES' HEARTS, IT'S GOING TO CHANGE THE WORLD. TRANSFORM THE WORLD. AND IT'S DONE IT THROUGHOUT THE 2,000 YEARS OF HISTORY. CONTINUING TO DO IT. AND IF WE LOSE OUR MISSIONARY IMPETUS AND SPIRIT, IF WE GIVE UP AND SAY, YOU KNOW, WHY BOTHER? IF WE LET THAT KIND OF DESPAIR TAKE US OVER, THEN FOR ALL INTENSIVE PURPOSES, THE WORLD CAN JUST CHECK OUT TOO BECAUSE YOU ARE LEAVING THE WORLD AND THE CULTURE AWAY FROM THIS GREAT FUNDAMENTAL INSTINCT. WHERE DID EVERY GREAT POLITICAL, ALL OF THESE THINGS WE TALK ABOUT TODAY. WE TALK ABOUT SOCIAL JUSTICE. WHERE DID THAT COME FROM? FUNDAMENTALLY FROM THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, ST. AUGUSTINE'S BASIC TREATMENT IN THE CITY OF GOD AND A THE CITY OF MAN. AND WHERE IN THE WORLD ARE YOU GOING TO GET THE IDEA OF AN UNJUST LAW IS NO LAW AT ALL. THAT THE POSITIVE LAW HAS TO BE SUBJECT TO THE STANDARD OF JUSTICE. ST. AUGUSTINE. OH, YEAH, IF IT'S BEEN QUOTED BY MARTIN LUTHER KING AND QUOTED BY GHANDI AND THOMAS JEFFERSON. BUT IT WAS ST. AUGUSTINE WHO MAKES THE POSITIVE LAW, SUBORDINATED LAW. AND WHERE DID HE GET THAT FROM? JESUS. WHERE IN THE WORLD DO WE GET THE NOTION OF UNIVERSALITY OF THE WORLD, FROM A DOMINICAN TRYING TO DEFEND THE INDIANS FROM THE SPANISH CONQUISTADORS AND TRYING TO KILL THEM IN THE MOST BLOOD THIRSTY MANNER. AND WHERE DID WE GET INALIENABLE RIGHTS FROM A FRANSISCO FRIAR IN 1865 TRYING TO SHOW THAT INALIENABLE RIGHTS, SAYING THAT THE RIGHTS TO MINIMUM JUSTICE THAT ARE NECESSARY FOR A HUMAN BEING TO BE HUMAN, THAT THEY BELONG TO EVERY HUMAN BEING IN AND OF THEMSELF. WHERE DID IT COME FROM? IT ULTIMATELY CAME FROM JESUS. YEAH, IT GOES THROUGH THOMAS AQUINAS, ST. AUGUSTINE AND EVERYTHING ELSE, YEAH. BUT MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT. JOHN LOCKE DIDN'T COME UP WITH INALIENABLE RIGHTS. THERE WAS THE GREAT FATHER OF INTERNATIONAL LAW, WHO WAS A VERY FINE HUMANIST AND HUGO GOT IT FROM FRANSISCO. AND HE GOT IT FROM THE LEGAL TRADITION OF THE NATURAL LAW THAT HAS ROOTS ULTIMATELY IN JESUS CHRIST. NOW, I KNOW I GOT GOING A LITTLE BIT HERE. BUT WE BETTER NOT LEAVE OUR MISSIONARY SPIRIT BEHIND! I THINK IT HAS BEEN THE BEST THING THAT EVER HAPPENED IN THIS WORLD. I AM A BIASED GUY. BUT ALSO, I'M OBJECTIVE, YOU KNOW, VISION FOR THIS. >> Doug: YOU ARE IN SALES ANYWAY, AREN'T YOU, AREN'T YOU IN SALE? >> Father: YEAH, I'M IN SALES. >> Doug: NOW IT BOILS DOWN TO UNDERSTANDING BETTER, THE OLD TESTAMENT WAS ON THE SILVER STANDARD. AND NOW, THE NEW TESTAMENT IS THE GOLD STANDARD. SO, I THINK OF IT THAT WAY. WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A BREAK AND WE'LL BE BACK WITH MUCH MORE FATHER SPITZER IN HIS UNIVERSE TALKING ABOUT FEAR AND HOW TO DEAL WITH IT. FROM HIS BOOK. STAY WITH US. ♪ ♪ >> Doug: WE'RE BACK HERE ON "FR. SPITZER'S UNIVERSE" TALKING ABOUT FEAR AND LIGHT SHINES ON IN THE DARKNESS, CHAPTER 5 OF THE BOOK. AND WE WERE TALKING ABOUT FAIRNESS A LITTLE EARLIER AS WE REJOIN FATHER SPITZER. AND HERE'S THE POINT OF INFORMATION, SINCE YOU BROUGHT UP THE NAME KASPER MILK TOAST WAS A COMIC CHARACTER, THE TIMID SOUL. AND MILK TOAST HAS QUOTE UNQUOTE THE MAN WHO SPEAKS SOFTLY AND GETS HIT WITH A BIG STICK. SO, ANYBODY WHO WAS WONDERING WHERE THE TERM MILK TOAST COMES FROM AND HOW IT GETS USED. THAT WAS A COMIC STRIP CHARACTER FROM THE EARLY 1900'S. SO, JUST A LITTLE FUN FACT TO KNOW AND TELL HERE ON "FR. SPITZER'S UNIVERSE". YOU DO THE HIGH END STUFF AND I DO THE LOW-END STUFF. RIGHT? >> Father: GREAT. >> Doug: SO HERE'S ANOTHER QUESTION SOMEBODY SEND IN. SUPPOSE A CATHOLIC COMMITS A MORTAL SIN AND DIES BEFORE CONFESSION, BUT REPENTS MOSTLY BECAUSE THAT PERSON WILL FACE ETERNAL SUFFERING IN HELL AND ONLY SLIGHTLY BECAUSE THAT PERSON HAD OFFENDED GOD. WILL GOD IN HIS INFINITE MERCY SAVE THAT PERSON FROM ETERNAL DAMNATION? THIS IS GEORGE. AND WE TALK ABOUT CERTAIN KINDS OF CONFESSION AND CONTRITION. >> Father: THAT'S RIGHT. GEORGE, YES, I BELIEVE THAT GOD WILL IN HIS ETERNAL MERCY SAVE THAT PERSON. NOW, THE MAIN THING IS THAT THE REPENTANCE, BE SINCERE BUT IT DOES NOT HAVE TO BE A PERFECT CONTRITION OUT OF LOVE. IT COULD BE AN IMPERFECT CONTRITION OUT OF FEAR. BUT NEVERTHELESS COULD BE SINCERE. I DON'T WANT TO BE ISOLATED FROM GOD. I DON'T WANT TO BE IN A CONDITION OF WHAT JESUS WOULD HAVE CALLED WAILING AND GRINDING OF TEETH, THAT IS TO SAY, OF EXTREME DARKNESS AND LONELINESS AND EMPTINESS. I'M SCARED OF BEING, YOU KNOW, IN THIS CONDITION OF LONELINESS, SCARED OF BEING AROUND THESE BEINGS OF TRULY EVIL MAGNITUDE, PLEASE, SAVE ME. OF COURSE, YES, THE CHURCH DOES MAKE PROVISION FOR THAT KIND OF THING. AND EVEN IF A PERSON DID NOT GO TO CONFESSION BUT AT THE END OF HIS LIFE, YOU KNOW, IS THINKING ABOUT, I WOULD HAVE GONE HAD I KNOWN THAT THIS WAS EMINENT AND SO FORTH AND I WOULD HAVE AVAILED MYSELF OF THE SACRAMENT, IF IT WERE POSSIBLE. AND I SINCERELY, I AM SCARED, LORD, OF THIS FAITH, I THROW MYSELF UPON YOUR MERCY. IT WOULD BE TANTAMOUNT TO THE PRAYER OF THE PUBLICAN OR THE PRAYER OF THE THIEF ON THE CROSS. IN OTHER WORDS, HERE'S THE PERSON, YOU KNOW, STANDING AT THE BACK OF THE TEMPLE AND JUST SAYING, HAVE MERCY ON ME FOR I AM A SINFUL MAN AND JESUS IS HE -- SAYS, YES, THAT MAN WENT HOME JUSTIFIED READY FOR SALVATION. YES, I WOULD ABSOLUTELY SAY THE LORD IN HIS INFINITE MERCY WOULD SAVE THAT PERSON. NOW, IF A PERSON JUST DOES THAT OUT OF A PURE SENSE OF PRAGMATISM AND JUST SAYS, OH, I BETTER MAKE SURE. >> Doug: COVER MY BETS. >> Father: RIGHT, COVER MY BASES, YEAH, COVER MY BETS. SURE. I'M NOT SURE IF THAT'S A SINCERE AND IMPERFECT CONTRITION. YOU KNOW, IT MAY BE. AND I DON'T KNOW. AS I DON'T WANT TO GET IN THE PROBLEM OF THE PHARISEES THAT WE TALKED ABOUT LAST WEEK. I THINK I WOULD JUST SIMPLY NOT SAY WHAT GOD WOULD DO IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE BECAUSE I THINK THAT JESUS HAS A LOT MORE ANNOYED WHEN PEOPLE SAY GOD WOULDN'T DO SOMETHING. LIKE WOULDN'T SAVE A SINNER RATHER THAN GIVING THE PRESUMPTION TO GOD'S MERCY TO SAVE THE SINNER. >> Doug: WHAT IF SOMEBODY SAID, WELL, FATHER, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN READ IN THE OLD DAYS, I THINK I UNDERSTOOD TO SOME DEGREE, CONSTANTINE WAS ONE OF THE EXAMPLES OF IT, BUT SOMETIMES PEOPLE IN THOSE DAYS DIDN'T CONVERT OR GET BAPTIZED OR GO THROUGH THE SACRAMENTS UNTIL THEY WERE READY TO DIE BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO BE SURE THAT ON THE WAY OUT OF THE DOOR, THEY ARE SET TO GO, SO TO SPEAK. AND NO CHANCE AFTER THAT, THAT THEY WERE GOING TO HAVE A PROBLEM. AND IT'S KIND OF A LEGALISTIC UNDERSTANDING WHICH OBVIOUSLY WE DON'T THINK PEOPLE SHOULD WAIT TO SUDDENLY DECIDE, ON MY WAY OUT OF THE DOOR, I'M GOING TO DO THAT. AND I REMEMBER A GOOD FRIEND OF OURS, FATHER BENEDICT GROESCHEL, PEOPLE THINK THEY ARE GOING TO DO THAT, BUT IN THE REALITY, IF THEY HAVEN'T BEEN PREPARED, THEY WON'T. THAT WAS HIS THOUGHT. >> Father: AND THINK YOU GOT BOTH ANSWERS. NUMBER ONE, THERE'S BEEN ABOUT 6 CHURCH COUNCILS THAT ACTUALLY CONDEMN THAT SORT OF, WAIT UNTIL THE LAST MINUTE AND GET OUT FROM UNDER IT. SO, FIRST THINGS FIRST. THAT'S NOT A GOOD THEOLOGY. AND CERTAINLY NOT A GOOD PRACTICE. SO, TRY TO STAY ON THE ROAD WHILE YOU CAN STAY ON THE ROAD. AND DO THE BEST YOU CAN TO GET BACK ON THE ROAD WHEN YOU GET OFF THE ROAD. BUT THE SECOND THING THAT I THINK IS REALLY CLEAR, WHAT BENEDICT GROESCHEL SAID, I THINK WHEN PEOPLE, AFTER A WHILE WHEN YOU JUST DON'T CONNECT WITH GOD, YOU NEVER ASK FOR HIS MERCY. YOU BEGIN TO CONVINCE YOURSELF THAT GOD IS JUST LIKE YOU. AND YOU BEGIN TO THINK, BEGIN TO CHANGE MORE OF YOUR VIEW OF GOD INTO A GOD WHO IS REALLY GOING TO BE TICKED OFF AT YOU BECAUSE THAT'S THE WAY MAYBE YOU VIEW GOD BECAUSE YOU HAVEN'T BEEN AROUND HIM FOR A LONG, LONG TIME. AND IF YOU ARE NOT A ACCUSTOMED TO COMING TO HIM OR YOU HAVE THAT THING OF, YOU KNOW, I'LL JUST DO IT MYSELF OR WHAT THE HECK, YOU KNOW, THE INCIPIENT DESPAIR OF SOMEONE WHO SAYS, WELL, I'VE LIVED LIKE PRETTY MUCH A BAD GUY ALL MY LIFE. I'LL JUST TAKE MY JUST DESSERTS. OR YOU KNOW, I NEVER NEEDED GOD, I DON'T NEED GOD. SO ALL OF THESE THINGS THAT OCCUR TO A PERSON WHO COULDN'T STAY ON THE -- WE KNOW THEY OCCUR TO PEOPLE WHO DON'T STAY ON THE ROAD. I WAS A HOSPITAL CHAPLAIN FOR A LONG TO IT. AND JUST GOING INTO THE ROOM, AND I FIGURED IF A GUY WAS MARKED CATHOLIC, WHEN YOU ENTER INTO THE CATHOLIC HOSPITAL, DO YOU HAVE A RELIGIOUS PREFERENCE. WELL NOT EVEN CATHOLIC HOSPITAL. BUT IF YOU ARE ASKED RELIGIOUS PREFERENCE AND IF YOU TAKE THE TIME TO MARK CATHOLIC, I FIGURED YOU WANTED TO SEE ME. AND I COME IN, AND THEY SAY, NO PRIEST. AND I ALWAYS TELL THEM RIGHT AWAY, OH, YOU MARKED CATHOLIC SO I TOOK THAT AS MAYBE YOU WANT TO SEE SOMEBODY LIKE ME. AND THEY ARE, LIKE, OH, OH, ALL OF THE PROTESTS. BELIEVE ME I HAVE HEARD EVERY PROTEST IN THE WORLD ABOUT WHY THEY DON'T NEED ME. BUT DEEP UNDERNEATH, YOU HAVE TO WAIT AND SAY IT THEMSELVES. AND THEY SAY, NO, NO. NO THANK YOU. AND YOU GO AWAY AND YOU GO, WOW, I CAN'T BELIEVE THEY DID THAT. BUT 3/4 OF THE TIME, PEOPLE SAY, OH, OKAY. I'LL LISTEN TO YOU. OKAY. AND THEN I WOULD COME IN. BUT I HAVE TO TELL YOU, THERE'S THAT GROUP THAT BENEDICT GROESCHEL TALKS ABOUT. NO, NO I DON'T WANT TO SEE YOU. WELL, IS IT BECAUSE YOU ARE MAD. AND THEY SAY I JUST DON'T WANT TO SEE YOU. AND I SAY, MAYBE IF YOU HAVE THAT ATTITUDE WITH ME, MAYBE YOU HAVE THAT WITH GOD. I'M NOT SAYING I'M GOD BUT I MEAN, THAT I REPRESENT THE CHURCH AND THE RECONCILIATION OF GOD. AND BOY, IF YOU CAN BE THAT BLUNT, WELL, THERE'S A HARDNESS OF HEART THERE THAT COMES FROM A LIFETIME OF WHO KNOWS WHAT. BUT ITS ALWAYS BEST TO STAY IN TOUCH WITH THE LORD AND ESPECIALLY IN TOUCH WITH THE LORD'S MERCY. >> Doug: RIGHT. THAT'S WHERE YOU HEAR ABOUT HARDENING OF THE HEART. FATHER BENEDICT GROESCHEL USED TO TELL A STORY ABOUT STALIN, NOT SURE IF IT WAS TRUE OR NOT. BUT ON HIS DEATH BED HE WAS SEEN AS WAVING HIS FIST UP TOWARD THE CEILING AND AS IF ARGUING WITH GOD ON HIS WAY OUT OF THE DOOR. AND IT'S INTERESTING, WHEN HE DIED, HE TOLD HIS BODYGUARDS, NEVER COME IN MY ROOM, EVEN IF I CALL FOR YOU. SO, IT TOOK FOREVER WHEN HE DIDN'T SHOW UP FOR THEM TO GO IN AND REALIZE HE WAS DEAD FOR QUITE A WHILE. SO, IT WORKED AGAINST HIM IN THAT WAY. BUT YOU KNOW, HARDNESS OF HEART. >> Father: YEAH, OH, NO, HE WAS BESIEGED BY NIGHTMARES. AS YOU KNOW, QUEEN ELIZABETH I WAS BESIEGED BY NIGHTMARE AND HITLER. THESE GUYS, I MEAN, THEY GOT PLENTY OF WARNING. BUT APPARENTLY, THE WARNING, THE NIGHTMARES, ONCE YOU ARE ON THAT TRACK, DEEP AND DARK, IT'S HARD TO GET OFF OF IT. AND OF COURSE, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT REAL EXTREME EXAMPLES HERE. BUT BOY, I TELL YOU, NO QUESTION. IN MY NEW BOOK, CALLED OUT OF DARKNESS, CONTENDING WITH EVIL THROUGH VIRTUE AND PRAYER WHICH IS STILL EIGHT OR NINE, 10 MONTHS OUT. THAT BOOK HAS A WHOLE SECTION ON JUST THE NIGHTMARES OF THESE PEOPLE. AND IF THAT'S NOT ENOUGH WARNING FOR YOU, THAT YOU ARE NOT AT PEACE, YOU KNOW, THEN WHAT CAN I SAY. >> Doug: EXACTLY. LET'S GO TO ANOTHER QUESTION, LET'S GO TO SOMEBODY WHO SENT US AN EMAIL. HOW DO I MAINTAIN JOY, WHILE REALIZING THAT MY BODY IS BEGINNING TO FAIL WITH AGE? ARTHRITIS IS GETTING WORSE, MEMORY IS LAPSING, AND MY PATIENCE IS WEARING THIN. HOW CAN I OFFER THESE SUFFERINGS JOYOUSLY WITH THAT OF CHRIST'S? ARE THERE PRAYERS THAT WILL HELP IN MOMENTS OF INTENSE PAIN AND FRUSTRATION? PEOPLE WONDERING AS THEY SUFFER, IF THEY LOSE THEIR JOY. >> Father: LAST WEEK, I WAS TALKING ABOUT CHRISTIANITY, HOW IT'S SORT OF A COMPLEX SPIRITUALITY. PAIN DOESN'T NECESSARILY GO AWAY OR DEPRIVATION DOESN'T NECESSARILY GO AWAY OR GRIEF. NOW, OVER THE COURSE OF TIME, THESE THINGS CAN SUBSIDE, NO QUESTION. BUT SOMETIMES IT DOESN'T. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, THERE'S AN OVERLAYERING OF WHAT I WOULD CALL A SPIRITUAL JOY. AND IT'S COMING FROM TRUST ANYTHING GOD, BEING ON THE TRACK TO SALVATION. YOU KNOW, HELPING OTHERS TO SALVATION, GETTING A PURIFICATION. AND IT'S WHAT I CALL THE JOY OF ST. PAUL WHO, YOU KNOW, HE IS STILL SUFFERING FROM THIS THORN IN THE FLESH, AN ANGEL OF SATAN BEATING HIM TO KEEP HIM FROM GETTING PROUD. BUT HE SAYS HE'S REJOICING IN HIS SUFFERINGS. AND AT THE SAME TIME THAT HE IS SUFFERING BECAUSE OF COURSE, IT'S PURIFYING HIM. IT'S KEEPING HIM HUMBLE. HE'S OFFERING HIS SUFFERINGS UP WITH THE SUFFERINGS OF CHRIST. THAT COMES FROM COLOSSIANS AS WELL. AND THEN, YOU KNOW, THESE DIFFERENT ASPECTS, RIGHT, OF ALL OF THE GOOD THAT IS COMING FROM HIS SUFFERING AND IN TERMS OF SELF PURIFICATION AND ROAD TO SALVATION AND TERMS OF OFFERING IT UP FOR THE GOOD OF THE CHURCH AND SO FORTH. AS HE IS DOING THAT, HE'S COMBINING BOTH OF THESE STRANDS INTO ONE. YES, THERE ARE TWO THINGS THAT YOU CAN DO TO KEEP THAT UPPER STRAND OF LOOKING AND RECEIVING THE OPPORTUNITIES OF SUFFERING AND EXPERIENCING THE SPIRITUAL JOY OF SUFFERING, THINGS THAT YOU CAN DO. AND THE FIRST THING IS, I WOULD HAVE YOU GO OUT AND GET THE LITTLE BOOK OF ST. THERESE OF LISEAUX. SHE'S THE FRENCH SAINT THERE, NOT ST. THERESA OF AVILA. SHE HAS A LITTLE BOOK, A DIARY AND NOW, I BELIEVE THERE'S AN EARLY VERSION TRANSLATION OF THAT IS ONLINE FREE OF CHARGE. SO, JUST PUT THE DIARY OF THERESE OF LISEAUX AND START READING THAT. BECAUSE THERE, YOU WILL SEE, SHE TALKS SO FREELY ABOUT THE PAIN SHE'S SUFFERING. AND THIS IS REALLY DEBILITATING PAIN OF TUBERCULOSIS. AND THERE WERE NO PAIN PROTOCOLS. THERE'S NO, YOU KNOW, NO MORPHINE-ORIENTED DRUGS OR OPIATE-ORIENTED NARCOTICS TO TAKE AWAY THE PAIN IN THOSE DAYS. IT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE KNOCK OUT BLOW. THERE WAS MORPHINE BUT IT WAS THE KNOCK OUT BLOW TO HER. BUT ESSENTIALLY, SHE IS SUFFERING THAT PAIN AND WHAT YOU DO, YOU SEE THE TWO AVENUES AS IT WERE ALL INTERTWINED TOGETHER, IN THE DIARY. AND THAT'S A REALLY GOOD PLACE TO START AND LOOK AT WHAT SOME OF THE CHRISTIAN SAINTS HAVE DONE. THE SECOND THING, YOU REALLY DO HAVE TO CHOOSE JOY AND CHOOSE CONSOLATIONS. THERE'S A DIMENSION OF PUTTING A SMILE ON IT, IN OUR FAITH AND IN THE GRACE THAT WE GET THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT. YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES YOU SAY, OH, I DON'T WANT TO BE A PHONY AND JUST PUT A SMILE ON MY PAIN. BUT IF YOU DO PUT A SMILE ON YOUR PAIN, RIGHT, AND YOU DO IT IN FAITH. YOU DO IT IN EXPECTATION OF GOD'S GRACE TO HELP YOU TO FIND THE OPPORTUNITIES OF SUFFERING, THERE'S SPIRITUAL JOY IN IT. IT WORKS. IT WILL WORK. BUT PART OF IT IS, YOU HAVE TO CHOOSE, I HAVE TO SAY, I'M GOING TO LOOK AT THE LIGHT. I'M GOING TO LOOK AT JOY. I'M GOING TO LOOK AT THIS WITH A SENSE OF HUMOR. I'M GOING TO LOOK AT -- YOU KNOW, I USED TO GET SO FUNDAMENTALLY EMBARRASSED, FIVE OR SIX YEARS AGO, WHEN I REALLY STARTED TO LOSE THE SIGHT IN THE BIGTIME WAY. AND IN THE AIRPORT, I BUMP INTO SOMEBODY, BUMP INTO SOMETHING AND I WOULD BE SO EMBARRASSED. AND THEN I GOT USED TO MAKING A BIG JOKE OUT OF IT. SORRY, JUST BEING BLIND. AND PEOPLE GO, YOU NEED ANY HELP. AND I SAY, SURE, I'LL TAKE AN ELBOW. AFTER A WHILE, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN BRING JOY TO OTHERS WHO ARE HELPING YOU, AND YOU CAN BRING JOY TO YOURSELF BY CHOOSING THAT JOY. AND IT'S NOT PHONY. IT'S ACTUALLY CHOOSING DELIBERATELY TO LOOK AT THE SPIRITUAL JOY SIDE INSTEAD OF LOOKING AT THE LOST SIDE. AND THE PRAYERS, IF YOU GO TO CHAPTER 4 OF THAT BOOK. YOU WILL SEE SPONTANEOUS PRAYERS THAT ARE VERY, VERY USEFUL FOR BRINGING ABOUT THAT JOY. AND ALSO, BRINGING ABOUT THE OPPORTUNITIES OF SUFFERING AS WELL AS SOMETIMES THE ALLEVIATION OF IT. >> Doug: RIGHT. NOW IN YOUR BOOKS SPEAKING ABOUT THAT, PAGE 230 WHEN YOU GET INTO THE VARIOUS TACTICS, RESHAPING OUR EXPECTATIONS OF HAPPINESS. YOU KNOW, YOU GO ON TO SAY, HOW CAN WE REINVENT OUR VIEW OF HAPPINESS. HOW CAN WE? >> Father: YEAH. YOU KNOW, PART OF IT IS JUST TAKING THE TIME, FIRST OF ALL TO LOOK AT WHAT KIND OF VIEW OF HAPPINESS ARE YOU CARRYING AROUND WITH YOU, BOTH CONSCIOUSLY AND SUBCONSCIOUSLY. SO, STEP NUMBER ONE IS TO RECOGNIZE, YOU HAVE A VIEW OF HAPPINESS. NOW, IT COULD BE LEVEL ONE, TWO, LEVEL THREE, LEVEL FOUR. BUT ONE THING IS FOR SURE. YOU GOT ONE. AND SOMETIMES YOU HAVE GOT A WHOLE BUNCH OF IN-BUILT ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT UNHAPPINESS. SO, NOT ONLY DO YOU HAVE A VIEW OF HAPPINESS, HAVE YOU A VIEW OF UNHAPPINESS IN YOUR CONSCIOUS AND SUBCONSCIOUS MIND. AND WHAT DO I MEAN BY THAT? YOU ARE THINKING TO YOURSELF, IF I GO BLIND, I WILL BE UNHAPPY. OR IF I LOSE THIS JOB, I'M GOING TO BE UNHAPPY. OR IF I, YOU KNOW, IF MY BROTHER ACTUALLY DIES FROM THIS DISEASE, I'M GOING TO BE UNHAPPY. OR WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE. IF THAT IS IN YOUR MIND, IF THAT'S WHAT YOU ARE TELLING YOURSELF. IF THAT'S WHAT YOUR SUBCONSCIOUS IS TRYING TO BREAK THROUGH, INTO YOUR CONSCIOUS MIND, DON'T WORRY. LIKE A SELF-FULFILLING PROPHECY, IT WILL SOON OCCUR. IF YOU ARE OUT ON THE GOLF COURSE HAVING THE BEST GAME OF YOUR LIFE AND YOU SAY TO YOURSELF, THIS IS TOO GOOD FOR ME, I AM NOT A SCRATCH GOLFER. DON'T WORRY, YOU WILL LOSE THE BEST GAME OF YOUR LIFE BECAUSE YOUR SUBCONSCIOUS MIND WILL MAKE SURE THAT YOU OF COURSE BOGEY THE NEXT FIVE HOLES. SO, THE POINT IS, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE OF WHAT'S GOING ON BOTH WITH YOUR VIEW OF HAPPINESS AND UNHAPPINESS. AND THE SECOND THING YOU HAVE TO DO IS ASK YOURSELF, AM I DOING THIS IN LEVEL 1, 2, 3 AND 4. IF YOU ARE NOT DOING THIS ON 3 AND 4, YOU GOT TO GET UP TO 3 AND 4. OTHERWISE, YOU ARE GOING TO BE MISERABLE ON LEVEL ONE AND 2 IF SOMETHING GOES WRONG. LEVEL ONE IS EXPECTING MORE MATERIALISTIC PLEASURE AND LEVEL TWO IS EXPECTING MORE EGO COMPARATIVE ADVANTAGE. WELL, IF YOU ARE SUFFERING, THE ODDS ARE ONE OF THOSE TWO THINGS ARE BEING THREATENED. SO, FOR ALL INTENSIVE PURPOSES, YOU GOT TO MOVE TO LEVEL THREE AND FOUR WHICH ARE THE THINGS THAT MATTER IN LIFE ANY WAY. CONTRIBUTION TO OTHERS AND THE FAITH THAT LEADS TO SALVATION. SO, YOU JUST WANT TO MOVE UP TO 3 AND 4. BUT THERE'S SOMETHING ELSE THAT YOU CAN DO FOR YOURSELF. YOU CAN ALWAYS ASK A REALISTIC QUESTION, REALLY? IS THIS GOING TO MAKE ME FUNDAMENTALLY UNHAPPY. IS EVERYTHING LOST IF I GO BLIND OR IS THERE SOMETHING THAT I CAN STILL DO. DO I HAVE MY EDUCATION? YEAH. COULD I DO SOMETHING WITH THAT. OKAY. DO YOU HAVE TO BE SELF SUFFICIENT TO GO OUT TO A LECTURE AND -- DO YOU HAVE TO BE SELF SUFFICIENT TO GO ON "FR. SPITZER'S UNIVERSE". WHATEVER. SO, THE POINT IS, OF COURSE, YES, THERE'S ALL KINDS OF REALISTIC WAYS OF DOING HAPPINESS LEVEL THREE CONTRIBUTIONS OF ESPECIALLY GIVING YOURSELF TO OTHERS IN EMPATHY AND BEING WITH THEM IN TIMES OF THEIR SUFFERING AND SERVING OTHERS IN AND ALL KINDS OF THINGS YOU CAN DO TO USE AND LEVER YOUR SUFFERING AND MAKE CHRIST GO IN YOU AND MAKE YOURSELF GROW LESS IMPORTANT. FOR ALL INTENSIVE PURPOSES, THIS IS A PRETTY GOOD DEAL. SO, WHAT I WOULD RECOMMEND HONESTLY IS, YOU KNOW, NUMBER ONE, PLEASE, PLEASE LOOK AT YOUR OWN ASSUMPTIONS OF HAPPINESS AND UNHAPPINESS. NUMBER TWO, IF YOU ARE NOT ON LEVEL THREE AND FOUR, YOU GOT TO MOVE YOURSELF UP THERE. GET OUT OF ONE AND TWO. AND NUMBER THREE, THE THING IS, IF YOU HAVE TO DO, LOOK REALISTICALLY AT THE POSSIBILITY OF YOUR OWN LIFE. EVERYTHING REALLY ALL OVER, EVEN WITH THIS SUFFERING OR ARE THERE JUST A WORLD OF OPPORTUNITIES OUT THERE THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT THAT GRACE, YOUR FRIENDS CAN LEAD YOU TO. ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS STEP INTO IT. AND JUST START LIVING THIS WHOLE NEW LIFE. WHICH BY THE WAY MAY BE A MUCH HIGHER AND SUBLIME FORM OF HAPPINESS THAN YOU HAVE EVER EXPERIENCED BEFORE. >> LET ME ASK YOU THIS, IN YOUR BOOK A LITTLE FURTHER ALONG, YOU TALK ABOUT THE DIFFERENCE OF POLYANNA AND JESUS CHRIST. WHY DID YOU PUT THAT TOGETHER? WAS IT A LATER VERSION? >> I WAS THINKING DEFINITELY -- WELL, FOR ALL INTENSIVE PURPOSES, THE ROSE-COLORED GLASSES, RIGHT. JESUS IS NOT ASKING US TO BE NAIVE OPTIMISTS. BUT HE'S NEVER ASKED US TO DO THAT. YOU KNOW, HE'S ASKED US TO FACE OUR SUFFERINGS REALISTICALLY. AND SO, THE FIRST THING IS, WE DON'T WANT TO SAY, OH, ALL OF THIS WILL END TOMORROW. AND IF IT'S NOT LIKELY TO END TOMORROW, JESUS DOESN'T REALLY WANT YOU TO FALSE. HE WANTS YOU TO LIVE IN THE TRUTH. AND IF IT'S NOT GOING TO END TOMORROW, DEAL WITH THAT REALITY. DEAL WITH IT IN FAITH. AND FAITH IS NOT NAIVE OPTIMISM. AND FAITH IS THE RADICAL BELIEF IN THE RESURRECTION THAT IS REALLY GROUNDED IN A TON OF EVIDENCE. AND WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT THAT EVIDENCE, TIME AND AGAIN ON THIS PROGRAM. AND IN THE SECOND BOOK OF THE QUARTET, THE SOUL'S UPWARD YEARNING GO TO MY WEB SITE, magiscenter.com AND GO TO THE SCIENCE AND NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCES, IT BLOWS YOU AWAY. JESUS IS RIGHT THERE FOR THE REFERENCES REPUBLICANS AND STRAIGHT ON. GO TO THE SHROUD OF TURIN. IF YOU WANT TO SEE A RELIC OF THE RESURRECTION, GO TO THE SHROUD OF TURIN. AND GO TO THE VIDEO, FREE THAT'S ON THE SHROUD OF TURIN, COMPLIMENTS OF EWTN WHO TAPED IT AT THE NAPA INSTITUTE, MY TALK AT THE NAPA INSTITUTE. THAT'S GOING TO BE UP ON THE WEB SITE IN JUST A FEW WEEKS. GET A HOLD OF THAT. THERE'S SO MUCH EVIDENCE OUT THERE. AND DON'T PERSIST IN BELIEVING THAT SOME GUY WHO IS GUILTY OF TOTAL ERROR OF OMISSION, COLIN RICHARD DAWKINS, ONE OF THE NEW ATHEISTS WHO JUST IGNORES EVERYTHING, FROM NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCE TO RATIONAL ARGUMENTS TO THE ENTROPY EVIDENCE, AND PEOPLE THAT JUST IGNORE THE SHROUD OF TURIN AND THAT'S THE MOST SCIENTIFICALLY INVESTIGATED EVIDENCE. AND GO LOOK. LOOK AT THE SCIENTIFICALLY VALIDATED MIRACLES, JUST FROM THE LORD'S MEDICAL COMMISSION. PERSIST IN NOT BELIEVING THESE ERRORS OF OMISSION. AND BY THE WAY, SOME OF THE ERRORS OF OMISSION ARE ABSOLUTELY AND TOTALLY CULPABLE. PEOPLE JUST DON'T WANT TO BELIEVE IN GOD. THEY JUST DON'T WANT TO BELIEVE IN RELIGION. AND WHATEVER THE CASE IS, IF THEY WANT A NEW RELIGION, THAT'S FOR GOD TO JUDGE. BUT WHAT MY POINT IS, DON'T BELIEVE THAT. FAITH IS NOT NAIVE OPTIMISM. NAIVE OPTIMISM IS UNREALISTICALLY SAYING, THIS DOESN'T RESULT IN ANYTHING BAD. GOD WILL CURE IT ANY WAY DOWN. AND ALL I HAVE TO DO IS TAKE THE LATEST PAN SEA. ALWAYS SOME SNAKE OIL OUT THERE. AND I WILL BE WELL SOON. JUST CUT THE NAIVE OPTIMISM. FACE WHAT WE'RE DOING IN FAITH, IN THE VISION OF THE RESURRECTION, IN THE HELP OF THE HOLY SPIRIT THAT'S WITH US NOW. IN PRAYER. AND IN ALL OF THE OPPORTUNITIES THAT COME THROUGH THAT SUFFERING WHICH WILL LEAD US TO THE SALVATION WHICH ULTIMATELY CHARACTERIZES THE MEANING OF OUR LIFE. SO, IF YOU DO THAT, THAT'S A MUCH BETTER DEAL THAN BEING POLYANNA. JESUS CHRIST WAS CERTAINLY NOT THAT WHEN HE FACED HIS OWN CRUCIFIXION IN THE GARDEN OF GETHSEMANI. AND WAY BEFORE IT, WHEN HE PROPHETICALLY PREDICTED IT. >> Doug: AND JUST BEFORE WE GO, A COUPLE OF INTERESTING THINGS. YOU TALKED ABOUT PEOPLE NEED TO GET THE BOOK TO SEE. BUT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT THE IDEA OF WE SHOULD NEVER ABANDON OUR SELF OF SACRED OR SEEMING UNSOPHISTICATED OR TANTAMOUNT TO GIVING OURSELVES A LOBOTOMY BECAUSE THE CULTURE SAYS IT'S COOL. >> Father: EXACTLY IT'S THE SAME POINT. IN OTHER WORDS, WHAT WE WANT, HERE WE HAVE THESE BEAUTIFUL CHURCHES THAT ARE JUST THE INSTRUMENT OF GOD'S PEACE. RIGHT? DON'T PASS BY A CHURCH. IF YOU HAVE BEEN PASSING BY A CHURCH FOR 20 YEARS, GO INTO THE CHURCH OR GET YOURSELF A GOOD CRUCIFIX. GET YOURSELF A BEAUTIFUL ICON. GET IT, BLESS IT. ALL OF THESE SACRAMENTALS OUT THERE. AND BRING THE PRESENCE OF GOD INTO YOUR HOME. AND GO TO THE PRESENCE OF GOD IN THE CHURCH. >> Doug: NOW YOU ARE STARTING TO SOUND LIKE MOTHER ANGELICA! YOU KNOW THAT? EUCHARISTIC ADORATION, HOLY REMINDERS FOR EWTN'S RELIGIOUS CATALOG. AND YOU CAN PICK UP ALL OF THE BOOKS AS A QUARTET. MAYBE YOU SHOULD START A MUSICAL GROUP! IT COULD WORK THAT WAY. AND NOW, ON EWTN, ewtn.com WE'LL SEE YOU, FATHER SPITZER NEXT WEEK. AND DON'T FORGET, WE HAVE THE EWTN FAMILY CELEBRATION, ALL FREE, IN WORCESTER MASSACHUSETTS SEPTEMBER 9 AND 10. WE HOPE TO SEE ALL OF OUR FRIENDS AND FAMILY. CHECK OUT ewtn.com TO SEE ALL OF THE SCHEDULES. CHAPTER 6, LIGHT SHINES ON IN THE DARKNESS, NEXT WEEK. LOVE ONE ANOTHER AS I HAVE LOVED YOU. THE UNITY OF SELF SACRIFICE AND LOVE ONLY IN "FR. SPITZER'S UNIVERSE". I'M DOUG KECK, AND WE SHALL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK. ♪
