♪ >> HELLO AND WELCOME TO FR. SPITZER UNIVERSE, INTERSECTION OF FAITH AND REASON. I'M YOUR HOST, DOUG KECK HERE IN IRONDALE ALABAMA, THE HEART OF THE MOTHERSHIP. AS YOU KNOW, EACH WEEK, WE JOIN YOU AND WE'LL JOIN FR. SPITZER MOMENTARILY. EMAIL US AT spitzersuniverse@ewtn.com POST YOUR QUESTIONS ON OUR FACEBOOK PAGE AND THE INFORMATION IS ON YOUR SCREEN. AUTO SEND TWEETS ALSO AND DON'T FORGET, A GREAT RESOURCE IS THE MAGIS CENTER WEB SITE. THAT'S magiscenter.com AND OF COURSE, FR. SPITZER JOINING US MOMENTARILY. A COUPLE OF THINGS TO MENTION TO YOU. A WONDERFUL NEW BOOK, GREAT OLD BOOK, CLASSIC BUT IT HAS A NEW EDITION JUST OUT, FIRST TIME EVER IN SOFT COVER. THIS IS THE CLASSIC MOTHER ANGELICA'S ANSWERS NOT PROMISES STRAIGHT FORWARD SOLUTIONS TO LIFE'S PUZZLING PROBLEMS. AND WHAT'S GREAT ABOUT THIS, IT HAS A NEW FORE WORD BY FATHER JOSEPH MARY WOLFE WHO WAS MOTHER'S CONFESSOR. IT'S PART OF EWTN'S PUBLISHING EFFORT AND IF YOU HAVE NOT READ A BOOK, MOTHER ANGELICA'S ANSWERS, NOT PROMISES, ewtnRC.com AND JUST A QUICK MENTION ABOUT A BOOK THAT'S DONE VERY WELL. VATICAN COOKBOOK, WRITTEN BY ONE OF THE SWISS GUARDS. AND EVEN BEFORE THAT, THE BOOK WAS POPULAR. THE SWISS GUARDS PRESENT THE VATICAN COOKBOOK THROUGH THE EWTN RELIGIOUS CATALOG. AND THAT'S ewtnRC.com. WITH THAT BEING SAID, WE'RE JOINING OUR OWN FR. SPITZER OUT ON THE WEST COAST CHRIST CATHEDRAL CAMPUS. TODAY, WE'RE GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCES. FATHER, SO GREAT TO SEE YOU AGAIN! >> Father: GREAT TO SEE YOU, DOUG. Doug: INTERESTING BECAUSE TALKING ABOUT MOTHER ANGELICA, MOTHER ANGELICA HERSELF ACTUALLY SPOKE OF HAVING A NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCE. I REMEMBER HER TALKING TO US ABOUT IT. AND THE FACT WAS, I DID SEE HOW, IT DIDN'T IMPACT HER LIFE. BUT HAVE YOU YOURSELF KNOWN ANYBODY SPECIFICALLY OR PERSONAL WHO HAS HAD A NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCE. >> Father: OH, YES. I DEFINITELY HAVE. IN FACT, I'M GOING TO BE SEEING ONE OF THEM RIGHT AFTER THE SHOW TODAY. SO, AS A MATTER OF FACT, I HAVE. SEVERAL ACTUALLY. Doug: VERY GOOD. IT'S INTERESTING, TOO. PEOPLE MAY SAY, ARE WE CROSSING FROM OVER THE WHOLE IDEA OF SCIENCE TO THEOLOGY WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCES. BUT I DON'T THINK THAT'S YOUR INTENTION NECESSARILY. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE SCIENTIFIC ASPECT HERE AS WELL, IS THAT RIGHT? >> Father: YES, WE ARE. AND DEFINITELY, THERE'S A GOOD DEAL OF SCIENCE AND A GOOD DEAL OF MEDICINE THAT'S INVOLVED IN IT. YOU KNOW, THERE'S REALLY SEVERAL EXCELLENT STUDIES THAT HAVE BEEN DONE. BRUCE GRAYSON'S STUDIES ARE VERY GOOD. AND SAMUEL PARENIUS FROM 2014, THE UNIVERSITY OF SOUTH HAMPTON IS AN EXCELLENT STUDY IN ENGLAND. THAT WAS 2,016 PATIENTS OVER MULTIPLE HOSPITALS AROUND EUROPE AND ENGLAND. THAT WAS VERY GOOD. AND THEN ANOTHER DOCTOR, LAN VIN POMMEL, IN THE LANCEET, IN THE STUDY THERE IT WAS ABOUT 2001-2003 STUDY. AND THEN, AGAIN MULTIPLE HOSPITALS OVER THE NETHER LANDS AND ENGLAND. THEN, THERE WERE A VARIETY OF OTHER STUDIES, JANICE HOLDEN'S STUDY IS VERY GOOD. AND ACTUALLY, IN A BOOK I WROTE, THE SOUL'S UPWARD YEARNING, READ CHAPTER 5. YOU WILL SEE A LOT OF REFERENCES TO ABOUT 15 DIFFERENT VERY, VERY FINE STUDIES THAT HAVE BEEN DONE EITHER AT UNIVERSITIES OR SEVERAL HOSPITALS, YOU KNOW, PUBLISHED IN PEER REVIEW JOURNALS AND WITH REALLY GOOD SCHOLARLY AND RESEARCH APPARATUS. THERE'S QUITE A BIT OF SCIENTIFIC CONTROL, MEDICAL CONTROL AND PEER REVIEW THAT'S INVOLVED. Doug: NOW, FATHER, WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THE EVIDENCE OF GOD'S EXISTENCE AND NOW WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCE. HOW DO YOU SEE THE RECOUNTING OF NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCES RELATING DIRECTLY TO THE EVIDENCE OF GOD'S EXISTENCE. MAYBE IT'S THE EVIDENCE THAT THERE'S ANOTHER SPHERE OR ANOTHER PLATEAU BUT HOW DOES THAT RELATE TO GOD? >> Father: WELL, IT DOES IN A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT WAYS. I MEAN, THE FIRST THING IS, THERE'S CONSIDERABLE EVIDENCE FOR THE SURVIVAL OF OUR CONSCIOUSNESS, OUR SELF CONSCIOUSNESS AFTER BODILY DEATH. AND THE REASON THE EVIDENCE IS VERY GOOD IS BECAUSE DURING A NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCE, WHAT'S REPORTED IS THAT, LIKE ALMOST A SPIRITUAL BODY, IF I CAN CALL IT A SOUL-LIKE BODY LEAVES THE PHYSICAL BODY. AND WHEN IT LEAVES, IT ACTUALLY HAS THE CAPACITY TO SEE, HEAR, I THINK, TO REFLECT, AND TO REMEMBER PAST MEMORIES. IN FACT, PEOPLE WHO HAVE HAD A LOT OF DEMENTIA OR MEMORY PROBLEMS WHEN THEY ACTUALLY LEAVE THEIR BODIES SEEM TO HAVE A GREAT MORE LUCIDITY FOR A TIME. AND THEY CAN RECALL FROM THEIR OWN EXPERIENCE WHEN THEY ARE BACK, EVEN IN A DEMENTIA STATE, THEY CAN RECALL THAT LUCIDITY. AND THERE'S A GREAT DEAL OF CLARITY THAT THEY HAVE ABOUT THEIR PAST SELVES. WHAT'S INTERESTING IN THE MIDST OF ALL OF THIS, THERE'S VERIDICAL EVIDENCE THAT THESE PEOPLE CAN REPORT. HIGHLY UNUSUAL FACTS THAT ARE REPORTED. SO, SOMEBODY CAN REPORT FOR EXAMPLE, THERE'S A TENNIS SHOE SITTING ON A LEDGE ON THE THIRD FLOOR OF THE HOSPITAL, SHOE LACE TUCKED UNDER NEATH IT AND THE TOE WORN DOWN. THE RESEARCHERS GOES OUT, CRAWLS ALONG THE LEDGE OF THE HOSPITAL, THERE'S THE TENNIS SHOE EXACTLY AS REPORTED. OR THE FACT THAT, YOU KNOW, 80% OF BLIND PEOPLE CAN SEE DURING A NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCE. THESE ARE, BLIND PEOPLE, MOST OF WHOM WERE BLIND FROM BIRTH, SO THEY NEVER HAD A VISUAL IMAGE BEFORE. THEY CAN DO COMPARATIVE SHAPE ANALYSIS AND COMPARATIVE COLOR ANALYSIS. FOR EXAMPLE, THE COLOR OF THAT NURSES HAIR IS THE SAME AS THE COLOR OF THE SHOE LACE OF THIS OTHER NURSE OR WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE. AND OF COURSE HOW IN THE WORLD COULD A BLIND PERSON -- THEY MAY NOT KNOW THE COLOR IS RED BUT THEY KNOW IT'S THE SAME COLOR AND OBVIOUSLY, THEY CAN GIVE PROOF OF THE FACT THAT THEY HAVE SOME VISUAL INDEX WHEREAS BEFORE THEY HAD NOTHING. YOU CAN'T DRUM THAT OUT OF YOUR IMAGINATION. IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN ANYTHING BEFORE, YOU ARE NOT GOING TO DRUM A VISUAL IMAGE OUT OF YOUR IMAGINATION. AND THESE ARE THE, SOME OF THESE VERTICAL EVIDENCE, SOME OF THIS EVIDENCE OF BLIND PEOPLE SEEING. IT'S SO WELL DOCUMENTED NOW, RIGHT? THAT AT THIS JUNCTURE ALL THE TYPICAL EXPLANATIONS, OH, THIS IS A HALLUCINATIONS OR THIS IS THE FINAL THROWS OF THE BRAIN BEFORE DEATH. OR THIS IS SOME KIND OF ADVERSE STIMULATION OF THE TEMPORAL LOBE OR SAY A DEPRIVATION OF OXYGEN. WELL, AWFUL THESE THINGS COMPLETELY FALL APART. BECAUSE HALLUCINATIONS OR ANOXIA DON'T GIVE RISE TO ACCURATE VERIDICAL PERCEPTIONS. AND EVEN THE STIMULATION OF THE TEMPORAL LOBE, IF YOU DON'T HAVE AN IMAGE OF COLOR, SHAPE, OR COMPARATIVE COLORS AND SHAPES IN YOUR BRAIN, WHAT IMAGE CAN YOUR PHYSICAL BRAIN PROJECT ON TO THIS NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCE? THE ANSWER IS, NONE. SO, OF COURSE, IT COULDN'T BE ATTRIBUTABLE TO A STIMULATION OF THE AT THE SAME TEMPORAL LOBE OF THE BRAIN OR ANY OF THE EXPLANATIONS LIKE THAT, THEY FALL APART. SO, THE FIRST THING YOU SAY THERE'S A LOT OF VERIDICAL DATA FOR THE SURVIVAL OF OUR CONSCIOUSNESS, VISUAL PERCEPTION, AUDITORY PERCEPTION, ET CETERA, AFTER DEATH. AND THE STUDIES GO MUCH DEEPER THAN THIS. I'M GIVING YOU THE GRAND SUMMARY HERE. >> Doug: RIGHT. EXACTLY. >> Father: BUT THE SECOND PART, WHICH IS REALLY IMPORTANT TOO IS THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE GO TO THE OTHER SIDE. RIGHT? SO, A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T JUST STAY IN THE WAITING ROOM ON THIS EARTH, AS IT WERE. A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T JUST GO OUTSIDE THE HOSPITAL AND SEE TENNIS SHOES OR GO INTO THE WAITING ROOM AND HEAR WHAT SOMEBODY IS SAYING ABOUT THEM. BY THE WAY, NEVER SPEAK BADLY ABOUT THE DEAD. YOU NEVER KNOW! Doug: YOU NEVER KNOW! >> Father: I'M TELLING YOU, THERE'S A LOT OF INCIDENTS OF THIS! [LAUGHTER] >> Father: BUT IN ANY CASE, THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT GO TO A WHOLE NEW TRANS PHYSICAL DOMAIN. AND THERE'S FOUR COMMON EXPERIENCES THAT ARE REPORTED. NUMBER ONE, THIS NEW DOMAIN, HEAVENLY DOMAIN THAT THEY GO TO IS EXCEEDINGLY BEAUTIFUL. THEY REPORT THEY DON'T FEEL ANYMORE PHYSICAL PAIN, EMOTIONAL PAIN BUT THEY ARE IMMERSED AND BATHED IN A KIND OF A BEAUTY WHEN THEY GET THERE. THEN, THE SECOND THING THAT THEY REPORT, VERY TYPICALLY IS THAT DECEASED RELATIVES MEET THEM. SOMETIMES DECEASED FRIENDS BUT ONLY IN ABOUT FIVE PERCENT OF THE CASES. VAST MAJORITY OF THE TIME IT'S DECEASED RELATIVES WHO MEET THEM. SOMETIMES RELATIVES THEY HAVE NEVER MET BEFORE OR RELATIVES THAT MAY HAVE DIED WHEN THEY WERE CHILDREN OR BEFORE THEY WERE BORN. AND SO, OF COURSE, THEY ARE MEETING THESE RELATIVES FOR THE FIRST TIME. BUT THEY COME AND THEY MEET THEM. AND THE RELATIVES ARE CLEARLY ALREADY IMBUED WITH THE KIND OF LOVE AND TRANSCENDENCE. THEY LOOK BEAUTIFUL, THEY APPEAR AT GREAT PEACE. THEY ARE EXCEEDINGLY LOVING AND THEY ARE DISCUSSING THINGS WITH THE PERSON WHO IS KIND OF ON THE VERGE OF MOVING TO THE OTHER SIDE SOMETIMES AND OBVIOUSLY ALL OF THE CASES WE KNOW ABOUT, THE PERSON DECIDED TO COME BACK. BUT GENERALLY, THERE'S A KIND OF CHOICE THAT'S THERE, IF THE RELATIVE IS THERE OR THE RELATIVE TELLS THEM, IT'S NOT YOUR TIME. THERE'S NO CHOICE, YOU ARE GOING TO GO BACK. AND YOU MAY NOT WANT TO GO BACK, BUT YOU ARE GOING TO GO BACK. AND A LOT OF PEOPLE CHOOSE TO GO BACK SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY HAVE CHILDREN OR SOME ELDERLY RELATIVE OR SOMEBODY THAT THEY ARE CARING FOR THAT THEY WANT TO GO BACK FOR. AND THEN, A THIRD TYPICAL EXPERIENCE IS THAT THEY SEE A LOVING WHITE LIGHT. AND THE LOVING WHITE LIGHT IS SO LOVING THAT IT LITERALLY IS BATHING THIS PERSON IN LOVE. THERE'S NO OTHER EXPERIENCE, YOU KNOW, THAT THEY CAN COMPARE IT TO. RIGHT? THESE ARE OFTEN REPORTED BY PEOPLE WHO ARE DOCTORS, RIGHT? WHO ARE PSYCHIATRISTS. DOCTOR ALEXANDER, FOR EXAMPLE, HAD HIS OWN NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCE AND AMONG OTHERS WHO REPORT THIS KIND OF DATA. AND THEY JUST SAY, I HAVE NO WAY OF TELLING YOU WHY I EXPERIENCED IT. WELL, WHO DO DID YOU THINK IT WAS? VAST MAJORITY OF THE TIME, THEY THINK THIS IS INTENSELY LOVING WHITE LIGHT IS GOD. SOMETIMES PEOPLE SAY IT'S JESUS. AND SOMETIMES THEY WILL SAY, IT'S AN ANGEL OR SOMETHING OF THAT NATURE. BUT GENERALLY, THEY WILL SAY IT IS GOD HIMSELF. AND THEN, OF COURSE, THE FOURTH EXPERIENCE WHICH OFTEN HAPPENS WITH CHILDREN, RIGHT? AND BY THE WAY, CHILDREN WHO UNDERGO CLINICAL DEATH, 85% OF THEM HAVE NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCES! Doug: I DIDN'T KNOW THAT. >> Father: YEAH. AND THEY ARE VERY, VERY POSITIVE NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCES. BUT WHAT I WAS GOING TO SAY, THEY ALSO SEE JESUS. SO, JESUS APPEARS FREQUENTLY IN THEIR NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCES WHEN THEY CROSS OVER TO THE OTHER SIDE. BUT OF COURSE, ALL OF THEM RETURN TO THEIR BODIES AND WHEN THEY RETURN TO THEIR BODIES, THEY ARE CHANGED FOR LIFE. ESSENTIALLY, YOU HAVE ANOTHER KIND OF VERT IT CALL DATA BECAUSE THEY DON'T EXPERIENCE DEATH ANXIETY ANYMORE. AND BY THE WAY, RELIGION DOESN'T CONTROL DEATH ANXIETY. A SPIRITUAL OR RELIGIOUS PERSON WHO HAS A LOT OF CONFIDENCE IN GOD AND CONFIDENCE IN RESURRECTION, CONFIDENCE IN JESUS STILL WILL EXPERIENCE A SLIGHTLY LOWER AMOUNT OF DEATH ANXIETY BUT TO EXPERIENCE NO DEATH ANXIETY THAT SEEMS TO BE UNIVERSALLY PECULIAR TO PEOPLE WHO HAVE HAD A NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCE. AND BY THE WAY, EVEN IF THEY HAD A NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCE AS A CHILD, ABSENCE OF DEATH ANXIETY PERSISTS RIGHT INTO THE 30S OR 40S AND THIS IS MONITORED AND TESTED AS THEY MOVE ALONG IN THEIR LIFE. YOU CAN DO AN EQUIVALENT OF A MODIFIED POLYGRAPH AND SEE THAT THESE PEOPLE DON'T HAVE THE NORMAL NEAR DEATH -- Doug: LET ME ASK YOU THIS. THE DESCRIPTORS THAT YOU HAD HERE, THE ONES THAT WE HEAR ABOUT ARE VERY, VERY POSITIVE. AND SOME PEOPLE HAVE BEEN CONCERNED THAT SOMEHOW THAT EVERYBODY SEES THE WHITE LIGHT AND EVERYBODY SEES JESUS, NEIGHBORS, AND EVERYTHING IS GOING TO BE WONDERFUL REGARDLESS OF WHAT THAT PERSON MIGHT HAVE LIVED THEIR LIFE AS. AND SOME PEOPLE CLAIM, WELL, COULD THIS BE A DECEPTION TRYING TO MAKE PEOPLE THINK WELL, HOW YOU LIVE THIS LIFE DOESN'T MATTER. AND THE OTHER QUESTION I HAVE FOR YOU, WHY WOULD IT NOT BE SOMEBODY'S TIME? IF THEY GET TO THAT POINT, THAT PART, WHY WOULD IT NOT BE THEIR TIME? IF IT WAS NOT THEIR TIME, WHY DID THEY GET TO THAT POINT? ANY IDEAS. >> Father: YEAH GREAT TWO QUESTIONS. WITH RESPECT TO THE FIRST, I DON'T DOUBT THE REPORTS OF THE PEOPLE THAT ARE EXPERIENCING THIS. AND I JUST HAVE TO TELL YOU, I DO NOT SEE ANY DEMONIC ENTITY CURING PEOPLE FROM PAIN, TAKING AWAY ALL OF THEIR EMOTIONAL PAIN, LOVING THEM INTENSELY, EVEN IN THE MOST FALSE KIND OF CONSOLATION WHEN ONE CAN SENSE THE PRESENCE OF DARKNESS. THE DEMONIC SPIRIT IS NOT GOING TO LOVE SOMEBODY INTO A KIND OF A HEAVENLY STATE. IT'S JUST NOT WITHIN THEIR CAPACITY AS A DARK BEING. SO, NO, I DON'T THINK IT'S A DECEPTION. BUT HOWEVER, ONE NEEDS TO BE CAREFUL TO NOT JUMPING TO THAT COULD BE CONCLUSION. IN OTHER WORDS, A CONCLUSION THAT IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW YOU LIVE YOUR LIFE. WHY SO? WELL, AS I SAID, 85% OF CHILDREN WHO UNDERGO CLINICAL DEATH HAVING A NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCE. BUT ONLY 10% TO 20% AND PROBABLY NEARER TO 20% OF ADULTS HAVE A NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCE. SO, HAVE YOU TO ASK YOURSELF, WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER 80%? I MEAN, THEY ARE CLINICALLY DEAD TOO, THEY HAVE FIXED AND DILATED PUPILS AND A FLAT E.E.G. TOO. AND ALSO, THEY GOT AN ABSENCE OF GAG REFLEX TO. THEY ARE CLINICALLY DEAD, BRAIN IS ESSENTIALLY SPUTTERING ON ALMOST NOTHING. FOR ALL INTENSIVE PURPOSES, WHY SHOULDN'T WE THINK THAT THEY TOO, YOU KNOW, HAVE A NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCE. BUT THEY DON'T. AND FOR CATHOLIC THEOLOGY, THEY THINK MAYBE PEOPLE WHO ARE DESTINED FOR PURGATORY STILL, AS IT WERE, NOT GOING TO EXPERIENCE THIS FULLNESS OF THE WHITE LIGHT OR GOD. MAYBE THERE'S SOMETHING FOR THEM TO DO STILL, SOME FINAL PURIFICATION WHICH THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE TO UNDERGO AND THEY JUST SIMPLY HAVE NO EXPERIENCE OF IT. THE SECOND THING TO REMEMBER, TOO, 1% TO 2% OF PEOPLE WHO DO HAVE NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCES DO HAVE NEGATIVE ONES. AND THE NEGATIVE ONES ARE -- >> Doug: I WAS GOING TO ASK YOU THIS. >> Father: AND THEY ARE DARK AND DEEP. 1% TO 2%, YEAH, HAVE NEGATIVE ONES. THEY ARE VERY DARK EXPERIENCES INDEED. SO, I MEAN, THERE'S ALMOST AN IMMEDIATE JUDGMENT. AND OF COURSE, SOME OF THESE THINGS ARE ASSOCIATED SOMETIMES WITH, YOU KNOW, WILLFUL SUICIDES, NOT OUT OF DEPRESSION BUT I'LL GET EVEN WITH YOU AND COMMIT SUICIDE KIND OF THING. YOU KNOW, SO, OFTENTIMES, IT'S REALLY HARD TO MAKE A STUDY OF, YOU KNOW, TWO PERCENT OF PEOPLE. YOU DON'T HAVE A SIGNIFICANT ENOUGH DATABASE. BUT THE REAL QUESTION IS, WHAT ABOUT THOSE 80%. WHY DON'T THOSE ADULTS HAVE THE NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCE WHEN THE CHILDREN, THE KIDS DO HAVE A NEAR DEATH PERSONS UP TO 85%. HOW CAN WE EXPLAIN THAT 65% DIFFERENTIAL? DOES IT HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH OUR VIEW OF PURGATORY. MY PERSONAL OPINION IS THAT IT DOES. BUT OF COURSE, I COULDN'T SCIENTIFICALLY PROVE THAT TO YOU. BUT I SUSPECT THAT IT DOES. SO, I WOULD SUSPECT THAT SOME OF THOSE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO HAVE NEGATIVE EXPERIENCES OR MAYBE THEY DID HAVE NEGATIVE EXPERIENCES WHICH WAS SO UNPLEASANT THAT THEY LITERALLY HAVE REPRESSED THEM. THAT'S A POSSIBILITY THAT SEVERAL OF THE AUTHORS OF THESE STUDIES ALSO CONSIDER. THAT THERE IS UNPLEASANTNESS ABOUT THAT THAT IS REPRESSED. Doug: ALL RIGHT. WE'RE AT A NEAR BREAK EXPERIENCE HERE. AND WE HAVE A LOT OF QUESTIONS COMING UP AFTER THE BREAK. WE'RE SPEAKING HERE WITH FR. SPITZER LIVE FROM THE CALIFORNIA STUDIOS HERE ON "FR. SPITZER'S UNIVERSE". YOUR QUESTIONS ARE UP STRAIGHT AHEAD. STAY WITH US. ♪ ♪ >> THANKS FOR STAYING WITH US. I'M DOUG KECK AND WE'RE HERE WITH FR. SPITZER. SO MUCH SYNDICATED ABOUT GOD OUR FATHER AND LIGHT. IT IS SHOWN IN SCRIPTURE THAT GOD DWELLS IN -- MIGHT IT INDICATE THAT BEYOND THE SPEED OF LIGHT IS A HEAVENLY REALM? BUTCHIE FROM CALIFORNIA. INTERESTING. YOU KNOW, MAY RELATE TO A LOT OF THE AUDIENCE. TALKING ABOUT JUMPING INTO LIGHT SPEED HERE, FATHER. >> Father: YEAH. WELL, YOU KNOW, TO BE HONEST WITH YOU, WHEN YOU GO FASTER THAN THE SPEED OF LIGHT, THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF TALK ABOUT WELL WOULD A PERSON ACTUALLY GO BACKWARD IN TIME. SOMETHING OF THAT NATURE. BUT ACTUALLY, I WROTE A WHOLE DISSERTATION ON THIS. AND THE ANSWER IS REALLY NO. YOU ACTUALLY GO BACK IN THE MEASUREMENT OF TIME. YEAH, THE CLOCK WOULD GO BACKWARDS BUT YOU ARE NOT GOING BACK AS IT WERE TO A PAST SCENE. >> WOULD THE PERSON GET YOUNGER? >> Father: WELL, ACTUALLY, NO. NO. IT WOULD JUST REVERSE ALL OF THE DIRECTIONS OF THE MOLECULAR FLOW OR ATOMIC FLOW OR ATOMIC VIBRATION IN YOUR BODY. BUT WOULD REALLY, YOU KNOW, IN TERMS OF, PROBABLY I HATE TO SAY THIS, BUT DISSIPATE YOU! RATHER THAN NOT MAKING YOUNGER. BUT FOR ALL INTENSIVE PURPOSES, WOULD YOU ALREADY BE, IF THEY ACCELERATED YOU TO LIGHT SPEED, YOU WOULD BE VAPORIZED IN THE PURE ENERGY! SO. [LAUGHTER] YOU WOULDN'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT GETTING BEYOND IT BECAUSE THERE'S NO YOU LEFT. Doug: GOOD POINT. >> Father: RIGHT. GOOD POINT. MAIN THING, WE DON'T WANT TO CONFUSE A REALITY THAT WE KNOW OF IN PHYSICS WITH SOMETHING THAT IS METAPHYSICAL OR TRANS PHYSICAL BECAUSE OF, OF COURSE, WHAT HAPPENS IN THE TRANS PHYSICAL DOMAIN IS ESSENTIALLY NOT REGULATED BY PHYSICAL LAWS. SO, ONCE WE PASS OVER INTO THIS OTHER DOMAIN, RIGHT, REMEMBER WHAT I SAID A FEW WEEKS BACK ABOUT THE WHOLE UNIVERSE BEING A THOUGHT IN THE MIND OF GOD. AND I'M SAYING THIS ANALOGICALLY, I'M SAYING IT AS AN ANALOGY AND THE UN RESTRICTED ACT OF THINKING IN GOD'S UNIVERSE, THE UNIVERSE IS BUT ONE THOUGHT AND HEAVEN IS BUT A WHOLE OTHER THOUGHT. AND AS YOU MOVE FROM ONE REALM TO ANOTHER, THOUGHT TO ANOTHER, IF I CAN USE THE ANALOGY THERE'S NO NECESSARY CORRELATION OR RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE LAWS OF ONE THOUGHT AND THE OTHER THOUGHT. SO, BETWEEN ONE REALM AND ANOTHER REALM. SO, I WOULD PROBABLY SORT OF LAYOFF OF THE PARALLELISM BETWEEN PHYSICAL LAWS AND ACTIVITY. EVEN YOU KNOW GETTING TO LIGHT SPEED OR BEYOND LIGHT SPEED AND APPLYING IT TO A HEAVENLY REALM. THINK GOD LITERALLY ISSUES OR USHERS US IN SOME WAY FROM THE DOMAIN WE ARE AT TO ANOTHER THOUGHT AS IT WERE, TO ANOTHER DOMAIN IN HIS MIND. AND THINK WE MOVE INTO THAT HEAVENLY REALM. IT IS DISTINCT. BUT ALWAYS, IT IS INTERESTING TO SEE SOMETIMES THE SYMBOLISM OF LIGHT IS SO, SO PERVASIVE. I AGREE WITH YOU. BECAUSE OF COURSE, LIGHT HAS A PURITY TO IT. IT ALSO IN PHYSICS, IT IS THAT FROM WHICH EVERYTHING ELSE, AS IT WERE IS BORN. KIND OF THE ENERGY, YOU KNOW, THAT IS KIND OF AT THE BASE OF EVERYTHING IN THE UNIVERSE, AT LEAST VISIBLE MATTER IN THE UNIVERSE. AND OF COURSE, IT IS, YOU KNOW, A SYMBOLIC REPRESENTATION IN CHRISTIAN SCRIPTURE AND JUDEO CHRISTIAN SCRIPTURES EVEN OF GOD'S PRESENCE. YOU KNOW, IT IS KIND OF INTERESTING IN THE SHROUD OF TURIN WHICH IS SOMETHING WE'LL DISCUSS AT A LATER POINT. BUT THERE'S RATHER INTERESTING EVIDENCE THAT FOR A BRIEF MOMENT, RIGHT, FOR ONE 40 BILLIONTH OF A SECOND, THE CORPSE OF JESUS, I BELIEVE THE DEAD BODY OF JESUS ACTUALLY EMANATED FOR 1/40 BILLIONTH OF A SECOND A VACUUM RADIATION, A VERY, VERY SHORT-LIVED, BUT INTENSE KIND OF RADIATION, ULTRAVIOLET RADIATION IS VERY INTENSE AND VACUUM RADIATION IS SHORT-LIVED. BUT IT EMANATED THAT 1/40 BILLIONTH OF A SECOND RADIATION OF WATTS AND THIS IS THE WHOLE WAY OF PRODUCING THE RAPID DEHYDRATION TO GIVE IMAGE TO THE 3 DIMENSIONAL IMAGE ON THE SHROUD OF TURIN. AND THE ONLY WAY THEY HAVE PRODUCED IT IS WITH A SPECIALIZED LASER IN LABORATORY AND TAKES 14,000 OF THOSE LASERS TO PRODUCE THAT IMAGE AT A MAGNITUDE OF ASTRONOMICAL NUMBERS. NOW, YOU TELL ME HOW A DEAD BODY DOES THAT EXCEPT MAYBE WHEN IT'S IN A TRANSITIONAL STATE TO A TRANS PHYSICAL STATE. AND SO, THERE YOU MIGHT HAVE THAT ANALOGY WORK. AND THINK THERE'S A LITTLE RELIC OF JESUS' RESURRECTION RIGHT ON THE CLOTH ITSELF. AND OF COURSE, IT'S THE LIGHT THAT DOES IT. IT CAN'T BE DONE BY HEAT. OBVIOUSLY, IT WOULD BURN UP THE CLOTH IN ONE AND A HALF SECONDS, SHORT LIVED RADIATION. IT'S DONE BY THE LIGHT ITSELF WHICH CAUSES THE RAPID DEHYDRATION. Doug: SPEAKING OF SHORT-LIVED. WE ONLY HAVE A SMALL AMOUNT OF TIME TO GET TO THESE QUESTIONS. AND I WANTED TO PULL YOU THIS NEXT. COMING TO YOU VIA EMAIL. ONE ACTUALLY WAS SO STRONG, I KNEW WHEN THE DEATH OCCURRED WITHIN A 2-3 HOUR TIMEFRAME OF THE DEATH. THEY WERE STRONGER AND MORE FREQUENT WHEN I WAS YOUNGER. WHAT'S YOUR OPINION ON WHY THESE HAPPEN. GOD BLESS THIS WONDERFUL PROGRAM. JANICE. HOPEFULLY SHE DOESN'T HAVE ANY PARTICULAR PREMONITIONS ABOUT EITHER ONE US. [LAUGHTER] SO, GO AHEAD. >> Father: THANK YOU, JANICE. YEAH, I WOULD SAY THAT SOME PEOPLE ARE SIMPLY SENSITIVE TO THESE KINDS OF THINGS. AND I DON'T, I WOULDN'T CONSIDER MYSELF PARTICULARLY SENSITIVE TO SOMEBODY'S PASSING. AND THINK THERE'S A REAL SPIRIT THAT COMES OUT OF A PERSON AS I WAS JUST DESCRIBING IT A FEW MINUTES AGO. I DO THINK THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE SENSITIVE TO THOSE KINDS OF THINGS. I DON'T THINK THAT SPIRIT IS SUBJECT TO THE LAW OF PHYSICS, RIGHT? SO, YOU KNOW, FOR WHATEVER REASON, YOU CAN GO THROUGH WALLS, GO UP AND DOWN, YOU DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO BE LOCATED IN A HOSPITAL, ET CETERA. BUT I THINK, YOU KNOW, THAT PEOPLE ARE SENSITIVE TO THESE THINGS. AND I MYSELF HAVE BEEN CLOSE TO PEOPLE WHO HAVE DIED IN A HOSPITAL WHEN I WAS DOING A LITTLE HOSPITAL CHAPLAINCY JUST AFTER MY ORDINATION, AND BEFORE I GOT INTO THE GRADUATE STUDIES. AND I HAVE TO TELL YOU ON A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT OCCASIONS, YOU KNOW, THAT A PERSON LEFT THEIR BODY LIKE SOMETHING PASSED THROUGH ME LIKE A PULSE OF ELECTRICITY AND SURE ENOUGH THAT PERSON WAS DECEASED. AND NOW, THAT'S JUST A SENSE FOR SOME PEOPLE. AND YOU ARE PROBABLY ONE OF THEM. AND IF YOU ARE ASKING ME WHY YOU ONE AMONG SO MANY OTHERS HAVE THIS KIND OF SENSITIVITY, I DON'T KNOW. I JUST FIGURE, WELL IT'S GOD'S WAY OF GIVING EACH SOME KIND OF GIFTS. I MEAN, THERE ARE JUST SOME PEOPLE. AND I'M TELLING YOU, THEY ARE SENSITIVE EVEN TO THE CONDITION OF SOMEBODY'S SOUL. I MEAN, PADRE PIO. I MEAN, THE GUY COULD SENSE PEOPLES' SOULS. AND ONE TIME I WAS ACTUALLY DEBATING A GUY ON ASSISTED SUICIDE AND BEFORE THE DEBATE, YOU KNOW, I SHOOK THE GUY'S HAND. AND I JUST ACTUALLY FELT LIKE I WAS GOING TO BE BOLTED BACKWARDS! YOU KNOW, I JUST FELT -- YEAH. YEAH. I FELT LIKE, OH MY GOSH. YOU KNOW, I FELT A PRESENCE THAT WAS NOT COMMENSURATE WITH MY OWN. AND I JUST, LIKE, OH MY GOSH. AND I THOUGHT, IF CAN DID I TALK MYSELF INTO THIS? AND I'VE NEVER DONE THAT WITH A DEBATE OPPONENT BEFORE. SO, I JUST DON'T KNOW WHAT IT WAS. AND YOU KNOW, EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE, I'VE HAD A COUPLE OF EXPERIENCES LIKE THAT. BUT JANICE JUST NOT LIKE YOUR OWN. SO, YOU KNOW, I DO THINK THAT SOMETIMES YOU CAN SENSE A PRESENCE THAT YOU JUST KNOW AND STAY AWAY FROM THAT PERSON. OR SOMETIMES YOU JUST KNOW, I DON'T WANT TO BE AROUND THAT PERSON. AND IT'S QUITE MYSTIFYING AND THERE'S NO REAL SCIENTIFIC OR PHYSICAL TEST FOR IT. IT'S JUST, WE'RE SPIRITUAL BEINGS. AND I TOTALLY BELIEVE THAT AND THEREFORE, WE HAVE SPIRITUAL SENSITIVITY. Doug: SO, YOU CAN JUST PRAY FOR THE PERSON WHEN YOU THINK OF THEM. OR YOU FEEL LIKE SOMETHING IS COMING ON, PRAY FOR THEIR HEALTH, THEIR SPIRITUAL WELL BEING. ET CETERA. OKAY. NEXT UP FOR YOU FR. SPITZER. THIS MUST BE A FRIEND OF YOURS FROM DALLAS. HE'S PLUGGING YOUR BOOK. GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD CLUES TO OUR TRANSCENDENT DESTINY FROM THE REVELATION OF JESUS. SO, THE QUESTION IS GOOD. OKAY. THIS IS AN EMAIL. YOU WERE KIND OF TALKING ABOUT THIS WITH THE SHROUD OF TURIN, RIGHT? >> Father: I WOULD JUST SAY, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT THINGS. FIRST THING. JESUS HAS A GLORIFIED TRANS PHYSICAL FORM. THE PERSONS IN NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCES, THEY ARE NOT GLORIFIED YET. BUT THEY DO HAVE A TRANS PHYSICAL FORM. SO, THERE IS ACTUALLY A DIFFERENCE. BUT THE FACT IS THAT N.T. WRIGHT DID A STUDY OF SECOND TEMPLE JUDAISM AND THAT'S LASTED FROM 500 B.C. TO JUST AFTER THE TIME OF JESUS. DURING THAT TIME, A SERIES OF KIND OF DOCTRINES INFORMALLY DEVELOPED OF THE AND ONE OF THOSE DOCTRINES WAS THE FACT THAT WHEN YOU WERE RAISED FROM THE DEAD IN THE GENERAL RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD, JEWISH PEOPLE BELIEVED THAT IT WAS GOING TO BE A RESUSCITATION KIND OF MY PHYSICAL BODY. I MEAN, IT WOULD NOW BE INCORRUPTIBLE BUT BASICALLY BE LIKE MY PHYSICAL BODY IS NOW. NOW, OF COURSE, THE CHRISTIANS WHO DIDN'T WANT TO DEVIATE AT ALL FROM, YOU KNOW, SECOND TEMPLE JUDAISM, THE CHRISTIANS THEMSELVES DEVIATED COMPLETELY FROM THE SECOND TEMPLE JUDAISM SECOND TEMPLE THINKING AND THEY WERE LIKE NO OUR BODY IS GOING TO BE A SPIRITUAL BODY. AND SO, PAUL USE THAT IS SPECIFIC WORD. OF COURSE, BECAUSE OUR BODIES ARE GOING TO BE LIKE THE BODY OF THE RISEN JESUS. SO, WHEN THE APOSTLES SAW THE RISEN CHRIST, HE WAS NOT JUST LIKE A PHYSICAL BODY MADE INCORRUPTIBLE, HE'S A SPIRITUAL AND GLORIFIED BODY. BUT WHAT PAUL GOES ON TO SAY, WE'RE GOING TO BE LIKE HIM. SO, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE THIS SPIRITUAL BODY. WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE SUBJECT TO PHYSICAL LAWS AND THIS IS PRECISELY ONE OF THE PARALLELS THAT WE FIND WITH NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCES. PEOPLE WHO ARE IN THAT SPIRITUAL FORM AFTER THEY HAVE LEFT THEIR BODY, HONESTLY, THEY CAN GO RIGHT UP TO THE ROOF. THEY CAN GO TO THE 14TH FLOOR OF THE HOSPITAL AND TO THE ROOF. THEY CAN PASS THROUGH WALLS, WALLS IN THE HOSPITAL, WALLS IN THE WAITING ROOM. REMEMBER WHAT I SAID, DON'T SPEAK BADLY OF THE DEAD. SO, THE KEY THING IS, OF COURSE, WHEN YOU ARE IN THAT STATE, YOU ARE NOT SUBJECT TO THE LAWS OF PHYSICS, EVEN WHEN YOU ARE STILL IN THE WORLD. NOW, THAT'S CLEARLY A CORRELATION WITH JESUS. BUT OF COURSE, THERE ARE OTHER THINGS WHERE WE DON'T CORRELATE AND THAT OTHER THING IS THAT JESUS WAS GLORIFIED. HE WAS BEAUTIFUL! WHEN HE APPEARED, IT WAS, LIKE, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE THOUGHT THEY WERE SEEING GOD, RIGHT? THEY BOWED DOWN AND WORSHIPPED, RIGHT? IN MATTHEW'S GOSPEL. AND OF COURSE, THAT WORD IS ONLY USED OF GOD, RIGHT. THE DEVIL ASKS JESUS TO DO THAT OF HIM BUT OF COURSE, JESUS SAYS NO, NO, NO, YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD HIM ALONE SHOULD YOU SERVE. AND THE KEY THING, THAT WORD IS RARELY, RARELY, AND IN THE DESCRIPTION OF JESUS' APPEARANCE TO THE DISCIPLES, THE DISCIPLES ARE BOWING DOWN AND WORSHIPPING. SO, THERE'S SOMETHING VERY MUCH BEYOND, YOU KNOW, WE SHARE THE TRANS PHYSICAL EXPERIENCE BUT WE DON'T SHARE THE GLORIFIED PART OF THAT EXPERIENCE. GREAT QUESTION. Doug: OKAY. VERY GOOD. NOW, NEXT A QUESTION COMING UP, BEFORE I GET THERE, I WANTED TO READ THIS OTHER QUESTION ABOUT A NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCE. SOMEBODY WAS ON OUR WEB SITE, ON OUR ewtn.com FORUM. AND THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCE AND UNDERSTANDING THEM FROM THE CHURCH'S PERSPECTIVE AND THIS DOVETAILS INTO THE QUESTION THAT I WANT TO READ AFTER THIS. THE IDEA OF BY HAVING THIS KIND OF EXPERIENCE, THIS PERSON SAYS, DOES THE CATECHISM OF THE CHURCH ADDRESS OR IS THERE A TEACHING OR THE THEOLOGY OF THE NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCE. AND IT SEEMS JESUS IS OFFERING US A MODERN OLIVE BRANCH WITH OUR STUBBORN MINDS, WITH THIS NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCE. AND THE OTHER QUESTION IS, IF WE'RE SUPPOSED TO DIE ONCE AND BE JUDGED, HOW DO WE HAVE A NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCE AND GO BACK? WHY AREN'T WE JUDGED AT THAT TIME. SO, PUT THOSE TWO TOGETHER IF YOU CAN. >> Father: WELL, GOOD. YEAH, TWO REALLY, REALLY GOOD QUESTIONS. WITH RESPECT TO THE FIRST QUESTION, YOU KNOW, IS THIS, I TOTALLY AGREE. YES, YES IT IS GOD GIVING US, AS IT WERE, THE OLIVE BRANCH, ONE MORE TESTIMONY AGAINST THE STUBBORN MATERIALISM OF OUR TIMES. I COULDN'T PUT IT ANY BETTER THAN THAT. THE CATECHISM DOESN'T HAVE SPECIFIC TEACHINGS ON NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCE. BUT WHAT I TRY TO DO IN THAT BOOK, THE SOUL'S UPWARD YEARNING, GIVE YOU A FAIRLY GOOD DESCRIPTION OF IT AND I TRY TO GIVE YOU THE PARALLELS WITH CHRISTIAN THEOLOGY IN THAT OTHER BOOK, GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD. SO, IF YOU JUST GO TO THE CHAPTER ON JESUS' RESURRECTION, I TRY TO PULL OUT THE PARALLELS. BUT THE MAIN THING I WOULD SAY, THERE'S ANOTHER PARALLEL BESIDES THE TRANS PHYSICAL PART OF OUR SOULS. AND THAT IS, JESUS TALKS ABOUT A RESURRECTION INTO UNCONDITIONAL LOVE. AND THAT RESURRECTION OF UNCONDITIONAL LOVE IS ABSOLUTELY VERIFIED IN NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCES. SO, THE CHRISTIAN VIEW THERE OF THE RESURRECTION AS UNCONDITIONAL LOVE IS VERY MUCH VERIFIED. SO, YES, I DO THINK, YOU KNOW, THERE'S SOME REALLY EXCELLENT PARALLELS THERE. THE ONE THING THAT I WOULD JUST SAY, WATCH OUT WITH THE ANECDOTAL DESCRIPTIONS OF NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCES. THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO HONESTLY ARE USING THESE THINGS IN A VERY MANIPULATIVE WAY. AND ANECDOTAL WAY, I MEAN, SINGLE STORY. SO, SOMEBODY TELLS YOU, I HAD A NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCE AND HERE'S THE STORY. I SAY, FINE, BELIEVE THAT STORY. IT'S TRUSTWORTHY FRIEND, GREAT THING. BUT ALWAYS, YOU KNOW, HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF CAUTION IN YOU. PARTICULARLY IF YOU START HEARING SOMETHING THAT JUST SOUNDS REALLY GOOFY CONTRARY TO CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE. THERE COULD BE A MANIPULATIVE AGENDA OR EVEN NEW WAVE AGENDA UNDERLYING ANECDOTAL THING. SO, STICK WITH THE SCIENCE. STICK WITH THE PEER-REVIEWED STUDIES, STICK WITH THE STUDIES FROM LOTS OF HOSPITALS THAT ARE PUBLISHED IN PEER REVIEW JOURNALS. THEY HAVE EXCELLENT RESEARCH APPARATUS CONNECTED WITH THEM THAT HAVE FINE, REPUTABLE DOCTORS SPEAKING ABOUT THIS WITH A TEAM OF OTHER DOCTORS WHO ARE TESTIFYING NOT ONLY TO WHAT HAPPENED AND HOW IT HAPPENED. SO, IF YOU STICK WITH THE GOOD STUDIES, YOU ARE NOT GOING TO GET TOO MISLED. WATCH OUT FOR SOME OF THESE ANECDOTAL ONES. AND ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU HEAR SOMETHING JUST WACKY. CHALK IT UP TO, I'M BEING MANIPULATED BY THIS SOURCE OF THE WHAMMY STORY PERHAPS, PERHAPS A WACKY PERSON. SO, OR A MANIPULATIVE PERSON WHO MAY HAVE SOMETHING ELSE IN MIND. NO, THE CATECHISM DOESN'T REALLY SPEAK TO IT. BUT GO TO CHAPTER 4 OF THE BOOK, GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD, THERE'S LOT OF PARALLELS FOR YOU. >> Doug: GOOD. >> Father: WHAT WAS THE SECOND QUESTION? >> Doug: WE'RE GOING TO COME BACK TO THE SECOND QUESTION. BUT RIGHT NOW WE'RE GOING TO MENTION ABOUT YOUR TWO BOOKS. NEW PROOFS FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD, CONTRIBUTIONS OF CONTEMPORARY PHYSICS AND PHILOSOPHY. AND ALL OF FR. SPITZER BOOKS ARE THERE. THEY ARE VERY IMPORTANT DEALING WITH WHAT WE'RE DEALING WITH, GOD'S EXISTENCE AND NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCES. JUST TO MENTION AGAIN, GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD. HIS LATEST GOOD, CLUES TO THE -- WE HAVE MUCH MORE AHEAD WITH FR. SPITZER RIGHT AFTER THIS BREAK. STAY WITH US. ♪ ♪ Doug: I'M DOUG KECK HERE ON "FR. SPITZER'S UNIVERSE". DIRECTING THE TRAFFIC. AND I WANTED TO MENTION BEFORE WE GET BACK TO FR. SPITZER, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT EVIDENCE OF GOD'S EXISTENCE, NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCE AND MOTHER ANGELICA'S BOOK, RIGHT HERE, ANSWERS NOT PROMISES. THIS IS AN INTERESTING TOPIC FROM MOTHER ANGELICA AND THE INFORMATION ON THE BOOK IS ON THE SCREEN. LET'S GO BACK TO FR. SPITZER. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THESE TOPICS. AND RIGHT, FATHER. NEXT UP. ANOTHER EMAIL. MANY CATHOLIC TEACHINGS HAVE PARALLELS IN SCIENTIFIC DISCOVERY. IT HAS OCCURRED TO ME TO THINK OF DEATH AS BEING PARALLEL WITH THE CONCEPT OF AN EVENT HORIZON, THE EVENT HORIZON AROUND A BLACK HOLE. THAT EACH SOUL, UPON DEATH OF ITS PHYSICAL BODY, CROSSES AN EQUIVALENT OF AN EVENT HORIZON; A KIND OF WORMHOLE OUT OF THIS PHYSICAL UNIVERSE INTO HEAVEN, PURGATORY OR HELL. FROM AN EARTHLY PERSPECTIVE, TIME SEEMS TO HAVE STOPPED FOR THE DEAD PERSON CROSSING THIS INTERIOR EVENT HORIZON. ON THE OTHER HAND, THE DEAD PERSON'S SOUL, HAVING CROSSED THE EVENT HORIZON TO HEAVEN, PURGATORY OR HELL, ACCELERATES TO THE SPEED OF LIGHT WHERE TIME NO LONGER HAS MEANING. TIME IS ETERNAL AND ONE. BARBARA FROM SEATTLE I THINK I'M TRAPPED IN ONE OF THOSE WORMHOLES RIGHT NOW. IF YOU FOLLOWED THAT QUESTION, YOU WIN THE KEWPIE DOLL. >> Father: THAT'S A VERY INTELLIGIBLE QUESTION, BARBARA. YOU KNOW, THERE'S SOME INSTANCES, YOU KNOW, IF YOU ARE ACCELERATED TO THE SPEED OF LIGHT, FOR SURE, TIME WOULD STAND STILL INSIDE THAT PERSPECTIVE. BUT OF COURSE, THE PROBLEM IS, YOU ARE VAPORIZED AS A PHYSICAL ENTITY. SO YOU WANT TO BE REALLY CAREFUL. AND SAME THING WITH THE EVENT HORIZON OF A BLACK HOLE. RIGHT? AND BY THE WAY, TIME WOULDN'T STAND STILL AT THE EVENT OF THE HORIZON OF THE BLACK HOLE. THAT'S A TECHNICAL THING WE CAN TALK ABOUT LATER. THE MAIN THING THAT YOU WANT TO DO IS BE VERY, VERY CAREFUL ABOUT MAKING ANALOGIES BETWEEN WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE PHYSICAL DOMAIN AND PARALLELING IT WITH SOMETHING THAT'S OBVIOUSLY TRANS PHYSICAL IN THE DOMAIN. YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T WANT TO SAY THAT THE SPIRIT FORM THAT'S LEAVING, RIGHT, THE BODY OF A PERSON WHO IS CLINICALLY DEAD AS BEING ACCELERATED AT THE SPEED OF LIGHT OR IN A WORMHOLE WHEN IT'S SITTING THERE IN THE OPERATING ROOM. AND YOU DON'T WANT TO SAY THAT IT'S GOING THROUGH A WORMHOLE WHEN IT MOVES TO THE OTHER DOMAIN. BECAUSE OF COURSE, AS YOU PROBABLY KNOW, WHEN YOU GO TO A WORMHOLE, YOU COME OUT SOMEWHERE ELSE. EAR IN THE PHYSICAL UNIVERSE OR YOU COME OUT SOMEWHERE ELSE ON ANOTHER SIDE OF A BLACK HOLE, MAYBE TO A WHITE HOLE OR SOMETHING TO THAT NATURE IN THE SAME PHYSICAL UNIVERSE. SO, YOU ARE REALLY NOT MAKING THE CROSSOVER TO A TRUE PHYSICAL DOMAIN WHICH IS WHAT THESE PEOPLE REPORT AND WHAT JESUS PROMISES IN THE NEXT LIFE. SO, AGAIN, I WOULD GO BACK TO THE WAY THAT I WOULD VIEW, BEST AND SAFEST WAY. IT'S TO LOOK AT GOD AS UNRESTRICTED ACT OF UNDERSTANDING, UNRESTRICTED ACT OF THINKING, RIGHT? AGAIN, SEPARATE THAT OUT FROM DONOVAN'S BRAIN FOR A MOMENT. Doug: OH WE'RE BACK THERE! >> Father: UNRESTRICTED ACTIVE THINKING AND ACTUALLY TWO THOUGHTS THAT ARE UNRESTRICTED IN THEIR PARAMETER, THAT OF THE WHOLE UNIVERSE, THAT OF HEAVEN AND GOD IS THE ONE THAT MOVES US THROUGH HIS OWN GOOD AGENCY FROM THE THOUGHT OF THIS UNIVERSE TO THE THOUGHT OF A HEAVENLY ONE WITHOUT ANY NECESSARY PARALLELISM BETWEEN THE TWO. NOW, YOU CAN HAVE ALL KIND OF INTERESTING ANALOGIES BETWEEN HERE AND THERE, THE ANALOGY OF LIGHT IS CLEARLY PRESENT. BUT YOU DON'T WANT TO EQUATE PHYSICAL LIGHT WITH THE TRANSCENDENT LIGHT, YOU KNOW, THAT YOU ARE SEEING IN THIS HEAVENLY DOMAIN. THAT'S A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS. AND SO, YOU GOT TO REALLY BE CAREFUL. OF COURSE, THERE'S THE APPEARANCE OF THAT EFFULGENCE, THE APPEARANCE OF THE SPIRITUAL TRANSLUCENCY AND EFFULGENCE AND YOU DON'T WANT TO GO THROUGH OUR OWN PERCEPTION SAYING THERE'S AN EQUATION BETWEEN OUR PHYSICALITY AND THE SPIRITUAL AND IT'S BEST TO KEEP THE TWO DOMAINS SEPARATE AND KEEP GOD AS THE AGENCY ENABLING TUESDAY MOVE FROM ONE TO THE OTHER. Doug: I'M HAPPY UNDERSTOOD IT AND GAVE US A CLEAR ANSWER. AND LET ME GET TO THE QUESTION I WAS PROBABLY SUPPOSED TO ASK YOU. THIS IS A QUESTION VIA FACEBOOK. WHEN I HAD SERVICE-RELATED INJURIES IN THE NAVY, I SPENT 8 HOURS IN SURGERY AND TOLD THAT I HAD DIED THREE TIMES. I REMEMBER LEAVING MY BODY ON THE TABLE AND GOING TO A WHITE WORM HOLE. THAT'S HOW HE DESCRIBED IT. THEN, MY MOTHER CAME OUT AND SAID, GO BACK. IT'S NOT YOUR TIME. WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS EXPERIENCE? AND THIS IS FROM RICHARD. WELL, I GUESS THE QUESTION IS, WHETHER OR NOT IT WAS A WORM HOLE OR NOT. BUT HE HAD THIS EXPERIENCE. >> Father: ASIDE FROM MY OWN EXPLANATION, I WOULDN'T CALL IT A WORMHOLE. A WORMHOLE IS A TECHNICAL WORD OR CONCEPT THAT'S BEING USED TO REFER TO SOMETHING IN THE SPACE-TIME CONTINUUM, IN THE PHYSICAL UNIVERSE. SO, NO, I DON'T CALL IT A WORMHOLE. MAY HAVE SEEMED LIKE ONE. BUT I WOULD RATHER CALL IT SOME KIND OF A WHITE DOMAIN THAT SEEMED TO BE SOME SORT OF TRANSITIONAL PHASE FROM THE PHYSICAL UNIVERSE TO THE TRANS PHYSICAL ONE. DO I BELIEVE THAT SUCH AN EXPERIENCE HAPPENS? OH, ALL THE TIME. WE LITERALLY HAVE THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS OF DOCUMENTED CASES OF EXPERIENCES THAT VERY MUCH RESEMBLE WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT FROM THE MOVING OUT OF YOUR OWN BODY TO, MOST OF THE TIME, IT'S MOVING THROUGH A DARK TUNNEL. BUT NOT INCONCEIVABLE THAT IT COULD BE A WHITE TUNNEL AND YOU COME OUT ON THE OTHER SIDE INTO A WHITE DOMAIN, A TRANS PHYSICAL DOMAIN THAT LOOKS WHITE. AND HAVING YOUR MOTHER MEET YOU. HAPPENS ALL THE TIME. I MEAN, SHOULDN'T SAY IT'S LIKE AN EVERYDAY EXPERIENCE LIKE GOING OUT AND EATING LUNCH. BUT IT HAPPENS TO A LOT OF PEOPLE, IN A LOT OF DOCUMENTED CASES. AND THAT'S VERY TYPICAL OF THE DECEASED RELATIVE TO COME TO YOU AND SAY, IT IS NOT YOUR TIME AND TO GO BACK. AND THAT'S VERY, VERY TYPICAL. SO, YES, I WOULD SAY YOU PROBABLY HAD SOMETHING AKIN TO A VERY AUTHENTIC EXPERIENCE. Doug: LET ME ASK YOU THIS. WE WERE TALKING THERE EARLIER ABOUT THE KIND OF INDIVIDUAL EXPERIENCE VERSUS BEING TESTED SCIENTIFICALLY. HOW DO WE THINK OF THINGS, LIKE, SAINT PHILLIP NERI DEALT WITH THE PARTICULAR PRINCE THAT CLAIMED HE HAD A NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCE AND WANTED TO GO LIVE IN HEAVEN WITH HIS FAMILY. AND SAINT CATHERINE SIENNA AND SISTER FAUSTINA HAD EXPERIENCES WITH HEAVEN. ARE THOSE RELATABLE AT ALL? NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCES? >> Father: PROBABLY ARE. THINK THESE VISIONS, IN THE CASE OF SAINTS LIKE PHILLIP NERI OR SAINT FAUSTINA THEY ARE OBVIOUSLY GRACES FROM GOD. GOD ABSOLUTELY GIVES US AN IMPRESSION OF WHAT THE LIFE IS TO LOOK LIKE. IF I BELIEVE THAT NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCES DO SPEAK ABOUT A REALITY ON THE OTHER SIDE, THAT PEOPLE ARE VISITING WHICH I DO ABSOLUTELY BELIEVE THAT, THEN I MEAN, GOD CAN GIVE US AN ACCURATE VISION OF IT, AN IMPRESSION OF IT, AN INNER SENSE OF IT OR A DOWN RIGHT PALPABLE EXPERIENCE OF IT. IF HE WANTS TO. AND THEN, IN THE LIVES OF SAINTS, HE DOES IT FREQUENTLY. NOT JUST OF COURSE WITH ST. FAUSTINA AND PHILLIP NERI BUT A LOT HAVE HAD THE EXPERIENCE OF THE VISION FOR LIFE TO COME OF THE AND BY THE WAY, SOME OF THE SAINTS HAVE DREAMED IT AND DREAMT IT SO PALPABLE, IF I CAN USE THE WORD AGAIN, FELT SO REAL THAT THEY AWOKE AND ACTUALLY BELIEVED THAT THEY HAD HAD AN EXPERIENCE OF ACTUALLY BEING THERE. SO, YES, I WOULD SAY, SURE. VERY REAL POSSIBILITY. IT'S GOD'S GRACE AND GOD GIVES US WHATEVER GRACE HE WISHES. Doug: AND VERY GOOD. JUST BEFORE WE GO, AND THE CLOCK IS WINDING DOWN AND WE FIND THAT TIME IS REAL ON THIS PARTICULAR PROGRAM AND ON THE NETWORK. WHAT'S SOMETHING CALLED THE GRAYSON SCALE? WHAT IS THE GRAYSON SCALE? >> Father: THIS IS A DEVELOPED, YOU KNOW, A FELLA BY THE NAME OF BRUCE GRAYSON WHO IS OVER THERE AT THE UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA AND IN THE DEPARTMENT OF PSYCHIATRY IN THE MEDICAL SCHOOL THERE. AND WHICH BY THE WAY, THEY HAVE A WHOLE DEPARTMENT DEDICATE TOAD LOOKING AT TRANS PHYSICAL ACTIVITY OF THE AND BRUCE GRAYSON IS ASSOCIATED WITH THE DEPARTMENT AND HE'S DEVELOPED A SCALE OF THE VARIOUS KINDS OF INCREMENTAL THINGS THAT INDICATE, DID A PERSON HAVE A NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCE OR DIDN'T HAVE A NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCE. SO, OF COURSE, IF YOU LOOK AT IT AND YOU SAY, WELL, THIS PERSON LEFT THEIR BODY. THEY DID, YOU KNOW, SEE THINGS ACCURATELY AND VERIDICALLY AND ON TOP OF THAT, THEY DID SEE THIS, THEY HAD THE EXPERIENCE OF THE ABSENCE OF PAIN AND EXPERIENCE OF BEAUTY. THEY WERE GREETED BY A DECEASED RELATIVES WHO TOLD THEM THINGS THAT THEY DIDN'T KNOW BEFORE WHICH WERE VERIFIED AFTER FACT. AND THEN, ON TOP OF THAT, THEY EXPERIENCED A BRIGHT WHITE LIGHT AND JESUS OR WHATEVER IT MAY BE. AND YOU KIND OF MOUNT UP AWFUL THESE DIFFERENT THINGS AND YOU SAY, OH, THAT GUY IS A 10. YOU KNOW, IT'S A CERTAINTY PRACTICALLY THAT HE HAS HAD A NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCE. AND IF IT'S LUCID AND THERE'S CORROBORATING EVIDENCE FOR WHAT HE SAW, CORROBORATING EVIDENCE FOR WHAT PEOPLE TOLD HIM ON THE OTHER SIDE THAT DECEASED RELATIVES TOLD HIM THAT HE DIDN'T KNOW BEFORE. AWFUL THESE THINGS ADD UP TO SORT OF A PRETTY CERTAIN THOUGHT. Doug: WELL, THERE YOU GO, FATHER. Father: AS CERTAIN AS ONE CAN HAVE. Doug: PERFECT. AND CAN TELL YOU THE AUDIENCE THINKS YOU ARE A 10! YOU DO BETTER AND BETTER EVERY WEEK. AND NEXT WEEK, EVIDENCE OF GOD'S EXISTENCE, IS THERE PHYSICAL EVIDENCE FOR JESUS' RESURRECTION. DO YOUR STUDYING WE'LL HAVE SOME GOOD TOUGH QUESTIONS FOR YOU NEXT WEEK. SEE YOU. THANKS SO MUCH, FATHER. GOD BLESS. AND OF COURSE, THE ONLY ONE AND ONLY FR. SPITZER FROM THE MAGIS CENTER. CHECK OUT HIS WEB SITE, magiscenter.com AND CHECK OUT HIS WONDERFUL BOOKS TOO THROUGH OUR WEB SITE, ewtnRC.com. AND ALL OF HIS BOOKS ARE THERE TO CHECK OUT. LOOK AT THE SCREEN FOR THE TITLES AND ITEM NUMBERS. DON'T FORGET MOTHER ANGELICA'S BOOK. POST YOUR QUESTIONS ON FACEBOOK. EMAIL US. AND USE TWITTER. WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK AS WE ONCE AGAIN VENTURE INTO "FR. SPITZER'S UNIVERSE". I'M DOUG KECK STAY WITH US UNTIL ♪
