- I'm breaking out all in my hairline, all throughout my face. And I cannot pinpoint as
to why I'm breaking out. And it never fails as soon as like my skin is looking good
and I'm like, "Oh my God, "My skin looks so good. "Wow, I'm living my best life." The Lord humbles me and I break out Hi guys, how are you today? My name is Bailey Sarian
and today is Monday which means it's murder,
mystery and makeup Monday. (mumble noises) If you are new here,
every Monday, I sit down I do my makeup and I talk
about true crime story. That's been heavy on my noggin. If you liked true crime
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because you shouldn't like it but you can be interested in it. If you're interested in true
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hit that subscribe button. I'm here for you every Monday. And I'm also here on Saturdays as well. I appreciate you guys so much
for your love and support. It means more than, you know, I think I'm at like 367,000 subscribers. The fuck? I know, what happened? I don't know. But hi, thank you. I love you. I appreciate you. And thank you for all your
support before we get started. Today's episode is
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watching true crime docu-series and stuff like that, it's good, okay? So a big thank you to Sundance Now for wanting to partner with me. I appreciate it so much. Thanks Sundance now. So I will stop rambling and I will get into
today's true crime story. Last week, I had thrown in five different like mini stories about
people who have gone missing and the whole thing was super suspicious. Lot of you guys liked
it, so I appreciate that. And I'll make sure to kind
of throw those in randomly from time to time. Today, I'm just going
to talk about this guy named John List. Have you heard of him? Well you're about to and the guy is messed up. Oh my gosh, last week. Didn't we talk about a
lot of people who were in Michigan? Crazy because today, sorry Michigan. John Lists. He was born in Bay city,
Michigan to his father whose name was also John List. I'll just call him father. He was a devout Lutheran
and a Sunday school teacher. John List, the son, he also became the same
thing as his father. So devout Lutheran and
a Sunday school teacher. In 1943 he enListed in the US Army and served as a laboratory
technician during World War II. And then in 1946, he was discharged, and he enrolled at the University
of Michigan in Ann Arbor. And he earned his bachelor's degree in business administration. And then he got his master's
degree in accounting. So this John List guy, if you haven't caught
on, he's pretty smart. He seems to be really good with numbers. He seems to be all
there for the most part. I mean, we don't really know
everything's going well right? Wow, cool. November of 1950, the Korean War escalated and John was recalled to
active military service. And then in Virginia,
where he was stationed, he met Helen Morris Taylor and she lived nearby with
her daughter, Brenda. I guess the two of them just hit it off. They fancied each other and then they started dating
not long after they got married on December 1st, 1951
in Baltimore, Maryland and the family moved to Northern California. Wow, a lot of moving, huh? So he's strange to me
because this is a side note. It's always strange to me, 'cause like I've never really like did a big move at all in my life. Maybe I should move more. Cool story Bailey, wow. So then in 1952 John List had completed his second tour in the army and he then
started to work paper company in Kalamazoo. Which, side note, I had no idea
Kalamazoo was a real place. Oh my God, Bailey, you're so dumb. I'm going to visit, there's so much I need to learn you guys. Anyway, so Kalamazoo. Great, awesome, love that. So while living in Kalamazoo,
that's where John List and his wife Helen kind of
settled in a little bit more and they started a family. So they had three children. In 1959, it seemed like the marriage
was kind of going South. I reported that Helen, she was an alcoholic, she was becoming just very unstable. She was angry. She was jealous and she
seemed to just take a lot of her anger out on John. Okay, so do you remember? I said Helen had a daughter already before she got married to John. And her name was Brenda. So in 1960, Brenda married. And she ended up leaving the household and the rest of the family ended up moving to Rochester, New York. John took a job with Xerox. A lot of moving happening,
happening, right? And a lot of different jobs. But it seems like really good jobs, right? So then in 1965, he accepted a position
at a bank in Jersey City. So again, he moved with his wife and children and also John's
mother moved in with him. But they moved into this Victorian mansion called Breeze Knoll. This Victorian mansion
is so extra, like, wow. A 19 room Victorian mansion. It's beautiful. It's huge. I don't know what you would do with 19 rooms, would love to know. So from the outside looking in, John seemed to be the
perfect family man, right? And as we all know here, it's all a lie. To his coworkers and stuff, it seemed like he had this awesome life awesome family, amazing house. But a lot of his coworkers
would say that he was aloof. I love that word, aloof,
that he was aloof, cold man. And he had little to no friends. People would say that
John lacked social skills. And because of his lack of social skills it was the reason as to why he jumped from job to job because he
actually was losing jobs. He was getting fired. A couple of times he got like a promotion, but it wouldn't last long. He just couldn't seem
to like talk to people. Before everything went down, John would leave every day to go to work. You know, everyone thought
he was going to work. So John would leave the
house and he would go to the train station and
that's, as far as he would get. He would go to the train station, and then he would sit there, and he would spend his
day reading the newspaper. But really John had lost his job. Instead of just telling his
family that he lost his job, he was just like, I'm going
to go to the train station just sit there all day,
reading a newspaper just reading in general. And then I'll come home
at the end of the day. So they think I was at work, great plan. John was doing this for a while. And the stress was just building up because bills are due
and who pays the bills? John, everything falls on him. He's just getting more and
more stressed about this. And being honest is just
way too hard for people. You know? So the mortgage was behind on payment. And I mean, then John finds out that the foreclosure process has begun and John knew he was about
to be exposed as a failure. He's been lying and he
needed to figure out a plan. And boy, did he make a plan. Kalama-fucking-zoo. So get this, you ready? Buckle and kitty cats, it's a wild ride. So on November 9th of 1971, the children had left. They had gone to school. Helen, John's wife, is sitting
in, out of the 19 rooms, I guess she's like sitting
in where the breakfast room or whatever, you know,
she's sitting there. She's having her coffee. John came up behind her and he shoots Helen in
the back of the head. Once John knew that
indeed his wife was dead. John headed up the stairs
to his mother's room, Alma, who was 84 at the time. And she was living, they
called it the attic. It was just like the, you know the top room of this
mansion, her own little area. John heads up the stairs
to his mother's room. He goes into her bedroom and he shoots her right
above her left eye. Now, by this time it's a little bit after noon and his daughter,
Patricia, who's 16, and his son Frederick, who is 12. They arrive home from
school and you guessed it, John sadly shoots both of his children in the back of the head. No words. Now at this point, John even
later will say (chuckles). I'm sorry for laughing. Every episode, there's
like a moment of just like, what the fuck, where I have to laugh. But hear, hear this. So John shoots his wife, his
mom and his two kids so far. And after this, he's
like, "Hmm, you know what? "I'm kind of hungry." So he goes into the kitchen and he makes himself some
lunch and he eats this lunch. How you eat lunch after
just murdering your family? That's a different level of crazy. That's a level of crazy
that I don't want to know. What, what? He made like a bologna sandwich, the hell, are you doing John? No. So once John had finished his lunch, he then drove to his bank, and he closed both, like his account and his mother's bank account. He also went into his
mother's savings account took out all of her money. Then John headed to Westfield High School. And this is so sad, but he watched his oldest son, John Jr., who was 15 at the time. But he watched him play in a soccer game. Yeah, again, this is a
special kind of crazy. Once his son is done with the soccer game he drove home with his son. They're just driving home like normal. And I guess John is just
acting calm, cool, collected, like nothing happened, which is ooooh. John Jr. walks into the house. And then, sadly, John
shot him in the chest and the face. John will later say that
he shot him so many times because this young boy had multiple shots. And the reason that he
shot him so many times was because he tried to resist
and he tried to run away and John just shot him repeatedly until he was sure that the boy was dead. So I guess this was John's plan. Now, okay. This is how sick some people are. And how, I don't know you guys. This is what's weird. Like this is the stuff that really just gets my brain so confused and wrapped up in all of this because it's like, what, how, why, what? There's so many questions. So then John calls the kid's school and he tells them that they're
going to be away for a while. So they're going to be
absent and not to worry. Now, John considered himself
a very religious man. So after killing his whole family, he then sits down and he
wrote a five page letter to his pastor, after
committing the murders, which was later found on
the desk in his study. Now, on this five page letter, it was essentially a confession. And he explained he was attempting to
save his family's souls because then it was the 1970s. And he believed it became
a very sinful time. John said that he believed his family was giving into temptation especially because his
daughter came forward to John and his wife, and said that she wanted
to become an actress. And John viewed that occupation as corrupt and linked to Satan. Now, side note, I don't
want anyone to think. I am singling out religion at
all and making it about that. Whether you agree or disagree I'm not pointing the
finger at that at all, because I know that there
are a lot of good people who have good intentions
when it comes to religion and what they believe in all that stuff. And I'm not trying to
get into that, at all, because I know a lot
of people tend to think that I am trying to point
the finger at religion. And that's like never been the case. I just kind of mentioned their life. Being Lutheran was like a
big part of this guy's life. And his reasoning was
that, does that make sense? 'Cause I there's been like a
couple of videos where people are like you shouldn't
make it about the religion. I'm like, I'm not. It just played a big role in their life. And I'm talking about their life. Because again, there's a
lot of good people out there who are in these churches
or whatever religion. And then there are some bad
seeds who ruin it for everybody. If you are Lutheran, I
am not singling you out and saying your people are bad at all. I truly believe in my heart, there's a lot of good people out there. And unfortunately there's some bad ones is what I'm getting at, okay? Thank you Kalamazoo. So John then put the bodies of his wife and his
children in sleeping bags. I've also read that he put
them on top of sleeping bags. Regardless, sleeping bags were involved. And then he moved them
all to like the floor of the mansion's ballroom. When you walk into the front door they were all right there
based off of photos I saw but he moved them all into
the same room, the ballroom. He left his mother's body upstairs in the attic, where her room was at. I guess he gave up trying
to move her downstairs. I'm laughing because of
how ridiculous this is. Now, he was doing this like all throughout the night, apparently. I think at some point he went to bed. The next day, when he woke up, he decided he needed to cut his picture out of all the family
portraits in the house. When police did show
up, eventually one day, and they needed a photo
for the wanted poster that they were sure going to draw up, they wouldn't have a reference
as to what he looked like and who he was. So he went through every
single photo in the house the photo drawer or whatever. And he cut himself out of every single photo. After doing that, John then turned down the
thermostat in the house. So it was freezing to preserve the bodies and also to prevent a
smell from happening. Correct me if I'm wrong on that, but I'm pretty sure that's what it is. And then he turns up the radio
and then John just vanished. It took nearly a month
until police were notified and the murders were discovered. It said, this is mainly because the family really
stuck to themselves. They didn't really socialize at all. They didn't really talk to neighbors. They didn't have friends, no
one went to go check on them. You know? And then also John sent letters to like the children's school stating that the family would be
visiting Helen's mother in North Carolina for several weeks. And that the kids weren't
going to be in school. He also called the school to let them know they weren't going to be in school. John had also stopped the mail delivery, newspapers, and milk deliveries. You see, back in the day, milk would be delivered to
your front door, wild times. John stopped all of that. Nobody's coming to the house at all. Now the neighbors, though, they did notice that the mansion's lights
were on day and night. Like they never shut off. They also noticed like there
was no movement happening in the house. They could hear the
radio, they saw the lights but they didn't never saw
people coming in and out. They never saw anything. And then finally the neighbors say that the lights began to
burn out one by one by one. So like the upstairs and downstairs and like the lights were just going out. And once that happened, the neighbors finally called the police. Sometimes it's good to have
nosy neighbors, you know? So the neighbors called the police and then the police show up to the house. They knock, knock, knock, and they're not getting any answer. They peek through the window
and guess what they see? That's when they see the
bodies laying on the floor. So police go into the home and they find all the
bodies in the ballroom. Unfortunately it took them a while to find the poor mother
all the way upstairs, but they did find her. Then the police launched
a nationwide manhunt police investigated hundreds
of leads without any success. All of the reliable photographs of John had been destroyed or cut out. So they really didn't even have any idea of what this man could look like. And again, at this point
it had been almost a month. So this John guy, he got a
pretty damn good headstart. Police then found the
family car and it was parked at John F. Kennedy
airport in New York City. So police looked into
like, did he get a flight? Did he get a ticket? They could not find any
evidence of John buying a ticket or that he boarded a flight at all. So they think that it's just a ruse. So it would take 18 years for police to learn what happened to John. 18 years. Here's what happened according
to John and later reports. It said that John left
his car at the airport. So then John had traveled
by train and bus. He had traveled by train and bus from New Jersey to Michigan
and then to Colorado. So then John settled
in Denver in early 1972 and took an accounting job as
Robert Peter Clark, AKA Bob. Which the name of one of
his college classmates was Bob Clark. So it's believed that that's why. He took his classmates name. And John would say that it was
like his friend or whatever. And then they interviewed the friend, the real Robert Clark, and the friend was like, I
have no idea who that is. And then while in Denver, he joined another Lutheran congregation and he ran a carpool
for the church members. At one of the church gatherings, he met Dolores Miller and
he married her in 1985. She had no idea about his past life, that his real name was John and all that. February of 1988, the couple then moved to Midlothian, Virginia. I guess in every video I should have like word of the day, and have it be a word that I can't pronounce or I mispronounce, because every video. Oh it's all over my teeth. Anyways, so the couple
then moved to Virginia, where John and his new wife had lived. And John was now still using
that same name, Bob Clark. Which is so weird because he must have had to like come up with
a bunch of paperwork. 'Cause how was he getting these good jobs? And then he just kind of went back to working as an accountant. So John may have like lived the
rest of his life and freedom if it weren't for the TV
show, America's Most Wanted. Remember, is that show still on? It should be because it
was pretty damn helpful because this show featured John and the family killings in May of 1989. On the show, they got a forensic sculptor to create a head, a bust they say, showing what John most likely looked like. Now, when America's Most Wanted agreed to feature the John List case, it was considered, at the time, to be the oldest case on the program. John had been missing, at
that point, for 18 years. So it was like slim to no
chance of them finding him, but hey, it's worth a shot. And then they brought in the
forensic artist, Frank Bender. And he's the one who created the bust, what John List would
look like to this day. So he made him look aged. Frank Bender, he had great success in helping capture aging fugitives. He was the best of the best. Now in order to create a
bust of the aging John. Bender went, or he consulted
with the forensic psychologist in order to make a profile of John. His sculpture showed John
with like a receding hairline sagging jaws, and a pair of glasses. And Frank Bender's theory was
that John would use glasses to disguise himself as someone
more important than he was, which would be proven accurate. And it's nuts how good this
guy is, like he was spot on. So the show airs and in Denver, Colorado a couple was watching and
saw this sculpture thing. When they saw it, they're like, "Hmm, that looks way too similar "to our old neighbor." Their old neighbor was John. So when they saw this on
the TV, they were like pretty sure that's our old neighbor. So then they called the
hotline that they leave on America's Most Wanted
and they give a tip. And with this tip, they
were able to locate John. Now, when John was arrested,
he was wearing the exact style of sunglasses that
sculpture forensic sculpture had envisioned, and he
looked just like it. It was crazy. On June 1st, 1989 John was arrested at the
Richmond Accounting Firm. After the Denver neighbor viewed the America's
Most Wanted broadcast. And John continued to
stand by his fake name,. that he was Bob Clark And he insisted that
they had the wrong guy. He stood by that for a solid month. You got the wrong guy,
my name is Bob Clark. Finally, John was faced with
the evidence that they have which included a fingerprint match with John's military records. And then of course, the evidence that they
found at the crime scene, which was more fingerprints,
and shoe prints, and stuff like that, hairs,
DNA, I mean, he lived there. On February 16th, 1990. (door clicks shut) My door just like closed on its own. Oh my God. Anyways, on February 16th, 1990, finally, John confessed his true identity. He was taken to trial and John testified that he was faced with
financial difficulties in 1971 after losing his job. Now he didn't want to
share this humiliating news with his family. So he spent each work
day at the train station, reading newspapers until
it was time to come home. He ended up taking money from
his mother's bank accounts to avoid falling behind on his mortgage, which eventually he just
ran out of money in general. He goes on to say that he was dealing with
his wife's alcoholism. And he really just
throws her under the bus, saying that he was also dealing
with her untreated syphilis. Now, this is what John says, by that time her excessive
alcohol consumption and the syphilis had transformed her from an attractive young woman to an unkempt paranoid shut-in. That's what John said. And he goes on to say
that she would frequently, publicly be little John, constantly telling him
that his sex performance was awful compared to her first husband's. John goes on to say that he
killed his family to spare them from the humiliation of losing their home. And because he hoped
they would go to heaven. Psychiatrists say that John
never showed any remorse. He never cried. He never got upset. He never said, sorry. Later, during the trial, it was
confirmed that John suffered from obsessive compulsive
personality disorder and it caused him to
consider only two solutions to his little predicament. He could either accept welfare,
because he didn't have a job and he was struggling, or
he could kill his family. There's no in-between.
John would go on to say that welfare was an unacceptable option because he and his family
would be exposed to ridicule. He would be viewed as a failure and accepting handouts
violated his father's teaching. Yeah, well, I think murder would violate your
father's teaching as well. But what do I know? So John goes on to say with
a controlling alcoholic wife and a mother who was just constantly on his case about everything, there was only so much he could handle before he was driven to murder. So finally, on October 12th, 1990 John was convicted of five counts of first degree murder. At his sentencing hearing, he
denied direct responsibility for his actions saying, quote, "I feel that because of my mental state "at the time, I was
unaccountable for what happened "I asked all effected
for their forgiveness, "understanding and prayer." Jeez, the judge was unmoved by this. He imposed a sentence of five terms of life imprisonment to
be served consecutively which was the maximum penalty at the time. In 2002, John did an
interview with Connie Chung. Where's she at? She doesn't do that anymore, does she? And John was asked why
he didn't commit suicide. Like if you're going to
kill your whole family 'cause you're embarrassed, why wouldn't you just
kill yourself too, bro? John stated that he didn't
want to take his own life because it would forbid him from his entrance into heaven, where he hoped to reunite with his family. Which I think is such
a crock of shit answer, because murder is going to
prevent you getting into heaven. Come on John, you're not thinking. Finally, March 21st, 2008, John died of complications from pneumonia at age 82 while in custody. They're old mansion,
it's called Breeze Knoll, it was the home where
the murders took place. It was destroyed by arson
on August 20th, 1972 which was 10 months after the murders. It's believed, you know, once news got out that there were murders taking place that somebody went and
like burned it down, which is honestly probably
for the better, you know? Which I found this really interesting when I was reading this article, it was like "Destroyed
along with this home "was the ballroom's
stained glass skylight, "which was rumored to
be a Tiffany original, "which was worth at least
a hundred thousand dollars "at the time." Which today it would be worth either about a million or
well, over a million dollars. It's unfortunate that that happened. And I'm like, you know what's unfortunate? That the whole family died in the house. Like let the Tiffany
stained glass skylight go. A new house was built on
the same site in 1974. I wonder if they know what happened. So that is a story about John List and the awful things that
he did to his family. It's truly unfortunate that
he got to live 18 years of his life out living, but at least they caught
him and he did go to prison. But the whole thing like
that still pisses me off. Thank God for America's Most Wanted. It seems that a lot of
men, not all men, okay, I'm not saying that, a
handful of men, truly believe that murder is easier than
divorce and it's disgusting. It's so disturbing. That one's crazy because this
guy you would never guess. And I feel like that's one thing we've been learning here
on my Monday episodes. The killers never look
like a flipping killer. Anyways, I hope that you
have a very good day today. Please, be safe out there. Make good choices. Again, a big thank you to Sundance Now for partnering with me on today's episode. Other than that, I hope
you have a wonderful day. Did I say make good choices? Make good choices. And I'll be seeing you guys later, bye.
