EWTN Live - History of the Popes - Fr. Mitch Pacwa, S.J. with Fr. Richard Kunst - 08-04-2010

when the Vatican needs a special item to expand an historical exhibit one of the collectors they're likely to call as a parish priests priest in Duluth Minnesota tonight we'll talk about one of the largest collections of papal artifacts outside the Vatican so please stay with us thank you thank you and welcome I'm father Mitch back on welcome to EWTN live our chance to bring you guests from all over the world but before we get to our guests I just want to mention that today is the feast of Saint John Vianney he was born in 1786 died in 1859 and he's known because you know in one sense he was a very simple man not necessarily the best when it came to book learning but he had an uncommon amount of common sense and spiritual common sense and so even though he had trouble passing the examinations to hear confessions he ended up becoming the greatest confessor in France and through his lifetime so he's now the patron saint of all priests he used to be the patron saint of parish priests but now he's the patron saint of all priests religious assistant parish and others because we need such a great Saint as Saint John Vianney to look up to and to try to emulate in our own priestly lives well tonight our guest is himself a priest so it's his feast day as well and he began to be collected from a very young age he started by collecting celebrity autographs from presidents to sports heroes and that's his ordination to the priesthood began collecting autographs and artifacts from celebrities of a religious nature so please welcome tonight's guest father Richard constant welcome thank you here we wish that it wasn't quite so hot for you for someone from up in Duluth this is a lot warmer than you're used to a little warmer from Duluth probably bout 40 degrees warmer this time of the year yeah but it's so it's great to have you here because you have an interesting background you started off collecting things as a boy what made you want to do that and what did you collect well the first thing I collected work wines I think that was a kind of a typical thing that kids collect but then in it actually as I got a little older in 1988 there was a presidential election I was a senior in high school at that time and and so I got really involved in politics and then the the politicians that were running for office and I'd go and see them at certain rallies and get their autographs and starts write to them and I found out that I could get autographs of primarily politicians at first just by writing to them and so that's kind of that it kind of piqued my my interest in just collecting on that whole realm of collecting celebrity items like that you know this is a lot classier than when I did I collected bottle tops Wow well I'm sure is a very nice collection but this is a much more interesting kind of collection yeah and you know you begin with presidents and politicians but you know you've moved on both to ordination that's right look back in 1990 98 98 so it's been 12 years for you as a priest and now you're collecting things related to our faith that's right the Pope's primarily but also Saints there's a number of items that are directly connected to the Saints that I also have well including a in particular Saint John Vianney is briefer II signed by him Wow that's one of the how did you get that well that was actually an auction in France and what the the type of pedigree that came with it so to speak was that a woman had been cleaning out her grandmother's attic who had just died and she fall in the breviary and with the breviary was a note from an undertaker who had the bravery in his possession at least dating to 1918 and so you know we can trace it back to that time but the you know if you read the biography of John Vianney you see that people stole his bravery as a relic and and of course what happened after he died I'm sure that there's other things that were probably pillaged and so either it was probably taken after his death or probably more than likely it was actually taken during his lifetime as a relic well it's really not and I suppose that it's signed by him on the inside Wow there's a Vatican know you have this stuff some do some of the Vatican know that's that's really an amazing relic to have that that's what we would call a third-class relic or second class Insecta used owned and used right now in terms of this what how do you get stuff in the Pope's well you know the one line I always use that Pope's don't have Roman sales and so it's not easy to get things and usually what happens is is what's happening in Europe now for the lack of vocations there are convents and monasteries that are closing and unfortunately they're doing is liquidating a lot of their things just to survive and so it really is opening the market to what we refer to as ecclesial antiquities old things that were associated with these monasteries and lots of times these monasteries would get gifts you know from the Holy Father maybe directly or or maybe a member of the house went to go visit the Holy Father and receive one individually and you know amass these things and so the the unfortunate side of this is that it's the vocation crisis in Europe that is allowing collections like mine to grow because you know we don't and it's neat to have this stuff but it would have been better to have it in the context it was the monastery that's right but you know the nice thing is is that in the monasteries you probably don't have like little museums or something like that they're probably hidden away in some archives but now what's happening at least with what my intent is with my collection is to to really open it up to allow people to see it and so I really want to bring these really rare items out to the public because people are inspired by that people see the items that I have and and I've had people say to me after looking at portions of my collection you know this is like I'm never gonna get to the Vatican this is a close I'm gonna get to and there really touched by it and so I'm hoping to use the unfortunate side of all these things get out and make it a positive you never know they might have a big attic in the Vatican that they need you to help go through I'll give him my number now from you know some of these people you've asked for autographs did anybody ever turn you down oh yeah yeah I would say I used to write tons of letters when I was a kid you know I've been in high school and even into college and I'd say I'd probably eat around 20 percent back when I was writing to these people about 20 percent and so that's actually a good turnover for a postage stamp in a letter you know and so I actually amassed a huge collection thousands of autographs of celebrities of every sort and what I did was eventually just sell them because I totally lost interest in that and went totally to the religious and spiritual side but today the spiritual or religious people ever turn you down well I don't really well the Pope's are all dead except for Benedict so I never really yeah I'll be eternal yeah so I really don't do that for the for the religious you know collection okay I don't write people for that sure did Mother Teresa oh that's right I'm sorry oh yes father Matt you've done your homework yes she wrote me I wrote to her and asked her for autograph she chided me in the letter I was there she said at the time I wasn't a priest you said Richard there's more important things than autographs but she signed the letter anyhow so she still gave it to me but it is one of my cherished items no because now she's a blood see that's sort of like getting a rookie baseball card you know before they're blessed her before the Saints exactly exactly that's another thing I did collect too is baseball cards oh now some of the things you brought with you right here in front of us tell us a little bit about the thing that's right on on top on the card that's probably you know the the collection is quite massive and I just brought things that I thought would be somewhat interesting in small easy to care but that's probably the most rare item I own it's a it's a seal you know when it started with the papacy of pious or Clement the fourth cometh the four started the fisherman's ring the fisherman rings gives the seal for the authenticity but what year was the fourth well right around 1260 1256 right around there and what so he started that and obviously as the holy seed grew and the Vatican grew then what they started to do is you know have other seals because Pope cans that they're in sealed documents all day long and so they started creating other seals just for the sheer size of the output of manuscripts and the Secretary's because they would do it that's right but now when the Pope dies because the the ring is the seal of authority you know they break the ring and then they bury it now all the other seals are also destroyed all right so there because it shows that the authority of this pontificate has now ceased with the death and so nowhere manuscripts can be proclaimed by john paul ii because he's deceased this is a seal that escaped destruction and it was a from the papacy of gregory xvi who was pulled from 1831 to 1846 and this is a good example of something coming out of a monastery in in italy in particular i'd asked the person who i had actually got it from in auction where it came from because you know it shouldn't exist and and he said his line was one does not ask the sisters where they get their items and so it was it was very interesting and that gave me nothing for me that's the guy that with the catholic school that's right exactly he knew it he knew when not to take off the sisters and one of the things that would they would use with this with it would stamp wax to sealing wax which is our entry especially a hard West trans plastic and they would use that as a way to seal a document mm-hmm you know when the wax was soft and some of them are also inked they did inked ones as well now some of the other things that you have here um you know you know like you have another something that is stamped that's right what is that that stands a piece of wood well the you know Conclave means Conclave a means to lock with a key and when the Cardinals get together to elect a pope in the Sistine Chapel they lock the Sistine Chapel with a key but they also seal it they seal it shut all the doors are sealed shut and what that is is a lead seal that was used to seal up the Conclave of 1963 that elected Pope Paul the sixth that's exceedingly rare as well and so it looks remarkably unremarkable but it's a remarkably rare item you know because you know that that kind of seal is very important nobody can go in or out unless they die that's right then they kind of let and that used to happen from time to time oh sure sure some of the Cardinals used to be very very old and maybe not so nice right but said the Chicago but but that would be there to seal the door so that no everybody would know no one has gone in or out of threat by the trickiness are you or two and they're really the election and they're all broken after the election after the Pope has been selected and you know also some of these seals just go with anything else that there were there were wax yeah there are wax ones as well you mean well I mean some of the seals if you look at like old photographs of like the locked Conclave and stuff like that sometimes you'll see on some doors wax seals and I think that those were primarily for the papal apartments because when when the Pope dies his apartments are sealed I mean everything inside is sealed and I'm not a hundred percent sure on this but I think the lead one was reserved primarily for the actual Sistine Chapel wax ones were a reserved for the papal apartments so that that way they would have you know that about some August day oh yeah Agnes de the August day is a that's some some time that used to be that it was primarily during the lengthened time but they won't do it just during Lent but during the Lenten time they would do August day where they would melt all the easter candles from the past year and they put chrism oil in there in a big cauldron and then you know stir it up and then they'd make a little like like wax cylinders kind of you know what the image of the lamb you know from from the Book of Revelations and then a saint on the other side and that was done every year and then the Pope's name would be underneath because the Pope would come and bless them and that was something that was quite significant it was a very significant um sacramental up until well john xxiii was the last pope that did it and so I wouldn't even say it was very significant at that time button pastures you know like past centuries all the way up to the first part of the 20th century is a pretty significant sacramental do you have any I got a number of them yeah I think my oldest one is from the from the maybe the mid 1700s see and to have something made of wax that goes back to the seventh or survived is really amazing because max is well wax can melt exactly that means that people you know the ones that have survived people have taken good care because it was so important to them sure now you have a couple other things to tell us first of all about this large piece over here yeah that's that is actually a ballot from the Second Vatican Council of course you know when the Second Vatican Council came you know all the bishops from the world got together and they voted on different you know documents or different statements up the Holy See was it gonna make and they voted with paper ballots and so this is an actual ballot it's the only one I've ever seen made available it's a little bit dumb different than what a ballot would have looked like only because whoever had the ballot put stamps on there and then they had it postage stamps with the last day of the council obviously those stamps would have been those postage stamps would not have been on the original ballots no no but somebody put it on there just to show that this is the real thing up and that it was the last day of the council and and it said instead of saying yes and no it said plots that are non plots right it's pleasing it's not pleasing that's right plus it used oh yeah modem basically maybe right right yeah what's this other one that's got some writing on it that is a business card from a father achilles rocky who was do you have his stuff well he's a he was a good librarian who became pope pius xi and so this was his business card from when he was the librarian of the Ambrosian library in milan which is for folks don't know that it's native to st. Ambrose mm-hmm and because he had been the Bishop of Milan that's right and the Ambrosian library is significant it's one of the most important libraries in Europe that's right so we're not he's just like any typical librarian here it was a pretty significant pose for him to have because this has a lot of ancient church documents transcripts and that's right and then later he became the librarian at the Vatican as well Cardinal librarian in fact if you go to st. Peter's Basilica the statue of him that is upstairs on the main level has him holding a book and it's because of his librarian background and so that that's a business card that he scribbled some notes on and then he signed on the bottom you know it's amazing that someone who's was a librarian again of two very important libraries but then he would be chosen beep rope as opposed to say someone who was a diplomat all right something else that's right the moral of stories be good your librarians that's never know now one other thing that you have here that is especially interesting is this little holy card what is that card well you know when when priests are ordained they're most often or very often will do a holy card to commemorate the the the ordination sure you know I'm sure did you do that of course and so did I and this is a holy card that father Joseph Ratzinger had printed up for his ordination and so that's his uh his holy card from his priestly ordination back in 1951 so that's that's especially now that again you want to talk about rookie cards it's a rookie card that's this that's like a rookie baseball card phrase it's a very nice because this is when he's a simple priest newly ordained that's right you know nobody knows him really and who's going to keep it for 50 years you know what now 60 but they did well that's that's some cool stuff now you've got these things and I know that you take them on exhibit from time to time Ryan what is the reaction you get from folks who see these on exhibit there I think for a lot of people it's a spiritual experience like I shared a little bit earlier is that um I've had people come up to me looking at these items and say you know what this is this is this is moving to me because these are the vicar's of Christ or the Saints you know to see something that a saint actually signed or or touched or used or something like that or a pope is it can be a very spiritual experience it's also very learning experience my my main goal in this type of collection is to teach to teach for and and to teach people what the Holy Father about the our church and and you know I always say you can't you can't love something you know a little about and my hope is to stir on the the love that people would have for our Holy Father and for Mother Church by the use of these these items and and I bring them up as as much as I possibly can I don't you know I don't bring out the whole collection that's only happened once and that was a number of years ago but I bring you know if I'm going to give a talk somewhere some you know it might touch on some item then I'll bring it out know what other some items that are especially able to touch people that like people say oh that really is cool the Mother Teresa letter I got a couple letters from her that's that's a big one and then also I've got the Chas Abul that pope john paul ii wore at World Youth Day Denver for the the closing mass on how did you get that well it's it's kind of an interesting stories that our former bishop Bishop Dennis nerves know in the Archbishop of Cincinnati he was the one that ran World Youth Day Denver okay at the time is just a priest and at the end of the successful program a World Youth Day the Holy Father gave it to him and as a gift and recognition and appreciation and when he became our bishop he told me that he had it and of course I my mouth dropped I couldn't I couldn't believe it you know I had the sin of envy at that point and and you know I'm the vocation director of the Diocese of Duluth he appointed me and so he said he said father couldn't see said you get 25 seminarians at one time and we'll give it to you and so I worked of course I had more than that motive of course what to get does get more into the diocese and this is like get vocations that win big prize exactly we never quite got up to 25 we got up to 23 but what had happened is that when we had our big we had a big show in 2004 called the Vatican comes to Luis which we showed everything and on that occasion he he gave me the the chasuble which was a very moving experience that really is cool it's cool one of the things about the papacy is that we think of this as being this office where great big things happen and it is great things but it's also an office held by real concrete human being that's right with all their little stuff that's right yeah and you helped to bring that alive oh yeah and and like I've got letter openers at certain Pope's have used yoin and clothing items and each piece really tells a personal story about that poem for example I've got I got a couple of books that were owned by Pope Clement the 11th before he was Pope and so on the inside it's got a little wax seal with his coat of arms as a bishop and when he was elected Pope he didn't want to get rid of the books and so he made a little bit fancier and he REBOUND them with his papal coat of arms on the covers and so you could see there was a book couple books are very important to him that he wanted to keep when he moved over to the to the Vatican that Clement 1211 xi yeah so when was he 1700 1721 yeah that's right yeah my I got all much older items I've got I've got an autograph of every single Pope since 1623 in some form or another some manuscript many way older than that but every single one since 1623 and I've got also like su kettles if kettles are kind of an what is is ooh kiddo zucchetto is the the skullcap basically I'd be the the the layman's term to use for that and it's it used to be to cover the Tantra that was the origins of this again a lot of people don't even know what a touch when a person became a brother or a priest at a religious order they would the form of a sign of obedience would be to cut you know st. Anthony Pato is alone we often look at where he's got the the touch or the very clear Tantra and his statutes and his images they do that as a sign of obedience and that would be cutting some of the hair right off in their back you make a circular hole that's right yep and so the the zu kettle is basically formed to keep them warm then eventually they grew and to have ecclesial different you know for the colors the different rankings and so now it's the sign of anybody a priest can wear one of course I can wear a black one if they if they so wish but usually reserved for bishops Cardinals and and then the the Holy Father and so I've got it I've got as a kettle from 10 of the last 11 popes the only one I'm mission missing is John Paul the first other than that I got everyone since Pius the 9th yeah he didn't have too many Sacchetti jut nutnut white ones not John Paul the 1st hole for only 33 days and you know some of the things that you have are not particularly precious items right like you've got bricks well some bricks are precious the holy year bricks you know the what makes them so special well the holy year bricks are the ones are the bricks that are blocking up the holy year door every 25 years of course there's a holy year and there's doors on each of the major basilica's in Rome but the primary one is on st. Peter's Basilica it's totally blocked off except for the whole year and the bricks are very ornate and and what they used to do is when the Pope would take the hammer and literally break down the through the door and through the brick people would clamor in and try and get pieces of it as relics and so they they kind of stopped doing that because people are getting injured and hurt and so I started to regulate it more and so these these bricks were now distributed from the Holy See to certain individuals and and so I've got a number of bricks from different holy years and those are pretty hard to come by yeah because people want to hang on to those things they want to hang no and and the holy we had one in the year 2000 you know that there's on my program threshold of hope we had the Pope going through one of the holy doors that's right you know because that to me was a great symbol of him crossing over to the throne when you that's right that was when a big issue for him crossing to the new millennium but I didn't get any bricks oh I don't have a brick from that whole year unfortunately the most recent whole year I don't have a brick from my oldest ones from 1775 which is 50 years older than the oldest one in the Vatican Museum the oldest one the back of museums 1825 and you know it's interesting because that's also one year older than the United States that's right so that's also a brick now you also got something that nearly got a person excommunicated what's this about that's right that was a that was Pope Benedict the 14th Pope Benedict the 14th smuggled a letter of out of the Conclave because you know Conclave can clobber a block with the key they seal the doors when they elect the Pope and he smuggled a letter a lot of Conclave to a benefactor and that was a violation of the rule of Conclave even back then and so he was risking certainly risking excommunication and if not his own future election you know because it was the election of his predecessor before him so that's an interesting piece little historical a little item so even some of the Pope's or troublemakers in past in the past more than recently thank heavens but we certainly have had our troublemaker Pope's yeah that that we have had I've been reading some of the Pope's of the 15th and 16th century have them with trouble me yeah to say the least but you know that is one of the amazing things when we look at the history of the papacy there have been Pope's who were more of an emphasis on the human side than on the grace the gracious side right and some of them were down rights colleges have anything from scoundrels yes in particular Alexander the sixth my favorites bonza Borgia you know the Borgia Pope I've got the grandfather the great-grandfather of Saint Francis Borgia I didn't well he was the grandfather I thought he was okay okay well I I've got a papal bull a complete bull from him it says so it's the that's a large parchment and then the lead seal attached to it I also have a few coins from the papal States during his pontificate but things from the Borgia Pope from a royal from Alexander the six in particular is a it's hard to get things from him because he's kind of a collectible type of guy you know and kind of hard to come by another one who I wouldn't call him a scoundrel he may be he was before he was Pope but afterwards who became you know much more better it was a Julius a second and it's actually one of my favorite items because I'm I'm kind of fond of Julius a second and if you if you watch the agony the ecstasy with the Rex Harrison and Charlton Heston it kind of gives somewhat of a tilted pitch picture of what he was like but I've got a manuscript signed by him twice and he was and that would have been in 1504 that he signed it yeah and that was a time you know that the movie didn't make it very clear made it look as if the Pope was a military leader because he just did it for fun and was on a lark but the the papal states were in grave danger that's right all kinds of invasion that's right and they were fighting and he was on the front line you know he did fight you know he was referred to as a warrior Pope he's also referred to as Julius a terrible because I mean he got his way and there's no getting around it in particular with Michelangelo right so you know these are again you're right you may not be such a scoundrel but you know the agony and the ecstasy makes him look like a bit that's right that's right he was right and he's a big character in people history Julius a second now the other items that use particularly mention well the three favorite ones are the ones I mentioned Julius a second the Chazz well John Paul the second in the bravery of John Vianney but I've got a number of saints I get Lawrence of Brindisi Charles Borromeo Robert Bellarmine John Bosco Alphonse de Liguori paul de cross you know a lot of the saints and then my my earliest Pope autograph is from 1457 from Pope Pius the second when he was a cardinal yeah they're just months before his election here's a Colonel Sienna and so and then of my oldest well my oldest complete item is from Clement the fourth 1266 it's a full bowl but then I also have a small just the seal the bowl is just a seal you know but the Bolton the seal is attached originally to a parchment which was the proclamation of the Holy Father and I've got the seal from innocent the third who of course approved the Franciscan Order and so that dates back that's my earliest individual item be careful about the friars here make sure they I didn't bring that one with me on purpose okay we need to take a little break but we're gonna be back in about two minutes and we want to get some of your questions and your comments to father about this collection that he's got so please stay with us thank you welcome back you know you can find out a lot more about father constance 'as the collection if you go to his website which is www.hyken.com different parts of the country and we'd love to have you come as some of these folks came as a group and others came as families and others as individuals if you can come to visit us you're more than welcome just contact our pilgrimage department at two zero five two seven one two nine six six that's two zero five two seven one two nine six six or go to the website www.house.gov/paul under the tours of the student did you guys go on a tour yet yeah that's good have a nice time see they liked it and then of course they'll let you know where all the good restaurants are falls and i which of the aren't cafe today very good Ida green tomatoes first time to have fried green tomatoes first time ever first time that black eyed peas first ever first time to have I'm from Duluth Minnesota yeah I call the greens before they haven't had those either see I'll be six tonight but it was a great episode no you won't be think you'll be fine it's probably well you ready for some questions good alright let's go to question four studios man where are you from I'm from Wartburg Tennessee welcome and what is your question I was wondering if either of you could explain simony how that applies or if it does apply to the buying and selling of relics all right 70 is a it's a basically it's a sin of of buying or selling blessed items holy items like and it comes from Simon Magnus in Acts of the Apostles who wanted to buy the the power the special magic that he saw in the Apostles and of course what he thought was magic was really the gift of the Holy Spirit that's right and so but you can't buy that and you still can't buy that and and that's a it's a very legitimate question that I get on a regular basis because of the nature of what I do have in the collection and you know the one thing that's important to note in this collection is that I don't really have these items in they're not used in like sacred settings I don't have them for devotional purposes they're for historical purposes and and you know lots of times when you see some of these things on the market these days like on eBay and stuff like that which is the unfortunate reality that we are in it's not necessarily a bad idea if you're going to get those things off of the market if you're going to keep it for a sacred purpose or for an important purpose in the church and so really the question of cemani since these aren't technically relics although I do have you know items out of Pope's and saints that they like they signed and stuff like that they're not relics in the traditional sense of the term that we would use them in an occlusal spiritual setting well there was that one situation where a man had a host from a Mass celebrated by Pope John Paul the second okay and he sold it on eBay right that's right and then he baked clampdown on that right the Catholic Church made it known to them but a night of columbus bought it just so that wouldn't be desecrated right and you couldn't even keep it no because it had to be that's right that would be that'd be like the height of cemani that's right that's jesus christ themselves but the demand wasn't Catholic and didn't really understand right nature of it for us right but you can you know to buy relics is not as Simon as rescuing them that's right that's right if you're doing it for that purpose obviously I mean and it is it is a the situation we find ourselves and all of the world of the internet the world of online auctions it's amazing what you can find and and again a lot of that comes from churches in Europe and monasteries and convents we have a caller on line we have Melissa hello Melissa hello hi were you from Pennsylvania great and what is your question I was wondering where father gets his resources to obtain the items all right where'd you get your resources to buy this I'm broke almost literally I have nothing other than a priestly salary I put about 70 percent of my income into the collection and I'm always in debt I'm always paying off things because I've got line a line of credit and so I don't have credit card did I poke debt and and it really it's really literal and and so I make a suggestion hmm never work for the federal go but but really you know a lot of it for me is that I won't buy anything unless I know it's a good deal I mean a really good deal and sometimes things have fallen in my lap that shouldn't have you know that that well like that stamp of no no doubt about and but other things that that have extreme amounts of value that I got for dirt cheap for various types of reasons and you know I view this as a vocation within the vocation I'm using the stuff to teach people and hopefully inspire people and and so I really do see that hand of God in a lot of this because there's no as I say there's no reason why a guy from Duluth Minnesota should have what he has in Duluth Minnesota and there's something to do with your ability to be persistent I'm persistent that's right and I'm very persistent I spend a certain amount of time in the early morning before I go to pray to check in scour online and and has lots of my online stuff is in Europe and so and it's in foreign languages and I just know kind of I'm not a linguist but I know a lot of keywords and I'm looking for and and I do very well with that and there's a lot of people out there that are very good to me that are in the business but know that because I'm a priest and there's not a whole lot of priests that are doing this a lot of them are just you know average you know Joe Sixpack so to speak and so they want they want the priest out of the first dibs and often all people approach me before they put it on the market okay we have another question from our studio sir were you from Cape Cod Massachusetts v good to have you're welcome glad to be here father couldn't I have a question in in following this discussion tonight you referenced that there are different degrees or levels of Relling I think you refer it to like a second degree and the third degree relic and and I'm curious yeah you know what what's the difference so what makes something a first class really we call first class yeah a first class relic is a part of the body most often chip a bone or sometimes a hair or even in the case of an incorrupt scent even a piece of the flesh so that that's the common first class second class is the you know items that they wore most often a little piece of cause you'll get a whole e-cards low piece of cloth you know a particular st. embedded in there or something that they use like that like that breather of John VIII and you would be considered a second-class relic that a third-class relic is a piece of cloth generally that was touched to the corpse or touched to the body of the saint and you know usually when you get reliquaries it's first-class relics that usually mostly and that's the most common some saints like st. Maximilian Kolbe for instance there are no first-class relics because his body was incinerated by the Nazis yeah but you know the foremost Saints the first-class relics what you get that's right in the little relic words because they call me cos and the little pieces of bone usually like say baby a piece of hair right right yeah good question for us - yes ma'am were you from I'm from New York I'm visiting for the first time you like it down here yes okay I'm very impressed with your collection father and I would like to say you know the Vatican collection treasures have been reproduced into costume jewelry what steps are you taking to protect your collection especially the autographs because especially now where it's so easy to copy you know to photocopy things right thank you for the for the question it's a good question you know the the the Vatican Library or Vatican Museum of course are licensing some things to be replicate you can go to the Vatican Museum as I'm sure you've been there and you by you know some duplicates of things are sold so it is regulated so it's not like they're not they're not regulating but in regards to to my collection it's not it's not generally it's not it's not on display right now it's it's in a I often I just referred to as an undisclosed location so it doesn't have there's not public access now this website that we're just getting started is gonna be the first time where people are going to have at least access to images of these of these items but they're probably not going to be good enough to where they'd be able or replicated so I don't anticipate in my lifetime that I'm gonna have an issue of people trying to duplicate from my collection to be fraudulent right right right and so so here you've got none of these artifacts are there any one of the things I was wondering about is whether you have any particular artifacts from turning key turning points of papal history for instance anything from the time of the Reformation or maybe the world wars yeah yeah the poliana quartz right well like directly associated with that time yeah and and the papacy the the most historic item that I own that would be that's the the document is actually mentioned in text books or at least in history books or biographies about these particular Saints is a and it's a brevis or a brief it's referred to as just a brief letter from st. Pope Pius v who is in the in the you know was the 1560s and he he wrote to the Senate of Milan asking them to support st. Charles Borromeo office it was not a saying at the time he was the bishop in Milan Charles Borromeo in suppressing the religious order the the brothers humility the and and so it's actually a very instrumental manuscript in regards to the suppression of a religious order that had gone corrupt during the time of the Counter Reformation so that that would be the most historic item that I own that I would say that you'd find in history textbooks so you know a lot of these things that you have are incidental item ins like for instance that sealed by the Pope that would have been used by one of his secretaries that's right but we don't know which one no and we don't know which documents actually would be damn fools right no you could probably figure it out if you had the documents sure because there might be just a slight flaw or something that worse of course noticeable they're just like you can with type on the typewriter right but you know some of these things that you have would be just mostly items that would be around the papal house right that's right I've got a I've got a slipper that um well let me back up i sat in when he was elected he had very poor circulation you'll see pictures of him close-up pictures of his hands and they're just really really puffy yeah of poor circulation so his sisters actually moved to Rome when he was elected and started to care for him and in many ways in one of the ways was to make him particular nice slippers that were more comfortable because of his circulation so he didn't really sometimes he would walk around with a regular type of shoes but for his day-to-day use he would walk around with these slippers that his sister's made and so I've got one of those that was it would've been something very common for we he would had it in his closet you know some other clothing items you know pieces of cassock and you know the facha of the from Pius the ninth on his cassock and you know I mean lots of lots of different clothing items rolling collars from Derrick from different popes now one of the the things that I've had questions about and I don't know if you know this or not but there's some items about the Pope's clothing why does the Pope wear a white cassock yeah the white it actually originates from saint pius v because paisa v was the first dominican to be elected and Dominicans were white as a habit and paisa v Juan just retaining his his a religious order identity into the papacy upon being elected so he kept the habit and so it really started with him and so in in his in his honor the Pope's urges to wear white in to start that tradition because he was a great Pope he was a saintly holy Pope he's a saint and and so that's become the traditional for the Pope's who are white because of pius v as a matter of fact have Pius the tenth is Don the other Pope that's been canonized since him but last 500 years we've had two popes I've been can i spice faith and pious at him in the first three hundred years everybody but one was like curious right poor Larry appears but but another thing too is the post wear red shoes why red you know that might be a stumper I don't know why there it is do you know why it is no I don't I might just be a tradition that it goes well with white I suspect I know John Paul the second where bran see oh we have a caller on line we have Ken there hello Ken how are you fine thanks were you from oh great good to have you with you what's the question I have a couple items that have been blessed by John Paul the second one of them is a picture when he was here in San Antonio in 87 and another is a medal and I was just wondering if there's any kind of relic type value those items well you know a lot you know I mean not in the same format that we talked about like a relic that you'd get like in the little relic wars that we've talked about but but you know I mean by the by the nature of their orders priests can bless and and bishops can bless and Pope's and and it's always been a sacred thing to have Pope's bless items as fact when you go to the Wednesday audience in Rome at the end of the Wednesday audience the Pope does a blessing with which he intends to bless any religious items that you have at that time and so they make it very deliberate point of saying that and so it's also when the Pope comes out for the Angelus that's right he'll do any time he does a blessing in essence it can be a blessing of your of your items and so it's it's a nice momento of a maybe a visit that you had or an audience that you had with the Holy Father or a relative of yours had but as far as I'm you know it wouldn't be it won't be on the same level certainly as a relic and it's certainly you know won't be on the same level as like a rare item because you know these blessed items are important because they're blessed by the Holy Father and intended to be blessed by the Holy Father but but there's thousands and thousands and thousands a matter of fact that any one of those ties like no last time I went to a papal Angeles you know that I had a bag or bag a rosary yeah and one of those blessed and I gave them to the friends that I knew as a result yeah you know so that's that's they're nice items and they they help you remember the times that the Pope was a near your hometown and that in that instance do you have any artifacts john paul ii i do i have as i already mentioned i have as chasuble from World Youth Day in Denver and I've got a hiking stick he used to hike in the woods we know that from a lot of pictures of him hiking in the woods and I got one of those I've got a zucchetto sure I think I've got a sacramentary that he used in the United States for mass sacramentary is the book that the priests use for the prayers during the mass trying to think what else got it I got a number of items you go to the website people are VAX calm you'll see a lot of them speaking of Cecchetti I heard that there's a tradition that if you buy of the Pope a brand new zucchetto he'll give you one of the is used one that's right that's a very old tradition and I don't know the origins of it but it certainly dates back the last couple hundred years for sure and you go to the papal clothing maker which by tradition at least since your 1800s gamma R le that's right behind the Pantheon in Rome and there's only one person that wears white so there's only one size is ooh kettle and so if you if you have it if you have a if you know that you can have an opportunity to meet the Holy Father the next day or later that day you can go to game really and purchase one and take a chance at and seeing if the Holy Father will swap know Pius the 12th is the one who really made that a popular tradition and John Paul the second in essence did not he it was not a tradition that he that he recognized but Benedict the 16th howevers certainly gone back to he's probably the easiest one to get since Pius the 12th Benedict the 16th oh right yeah and incidentally there's only been two popes in since the Year 1800 that have not used a more early and that was Pius the 12th and Benedict the 16th you can still buy those kettles er but you cannot they don't have their clothing tailored from gamma really yep why not they've got a better deal well they kept their their tailors from beforehand I suppose they're in Rome for such a long period of time both of them weren't prior to that there's not a Walmart for popes there's not exactly but Gama rallies in its own right is an interesting place to visit when you when you go over to to Rome and a lot of people don't know about it because you can see the storefront you can see you know little zucchet holes the the whites of kettles that you can purchase there oh that's a good idea especially I don't plan on meeting the Pope but I've never met a pope really have you met any I have I met John Paul a second about seven times and that's a true blessing I was I can celebrate Mass with him in his private chapel three times in fact within 48 hours my being ordained a priest I met John Paul the second cool yeah it was pretty awesome and the very first thing he said to me was you are too skinny that's exactly what you say I thought you could say something inspirational but he didn't that's a guy in his eighties sort of saying to a guy still can be skinny is that the older we get but it's so you know that's pretty cool yeah and and also to have some of the things from you know one of the other elements you know people I'm sure are amazed at these items but is there a spiritual component to what they derive from seeing your collection yeah and you know I can't speak to that because interior you know I mean they really do have an interior you can see it sometimes when people are amazed by what they're looking at and if you're looking at something like no like just you know just this past week Mother Teresa's relics were in st. Paul Minneapolis and I just saw a picture in a newspaper I wasn't there I saw a picture in the newspaper of her sandals and just looking at that for me in the newspaper is kind of a spiritual moment it's like here's the Saint that was taking care of the poorest of the poor and those are the sandals the most humble part of her clothing right there and so certainly these these things that are associated with the vicar's of Christ throughout history that were Christ's representative here on earth and in that most special way can't help but turn the spiritual juices sort of speaking a lot of people and if I had so many people tell me that people that have been very moved by at these items and yet lots of times I take these items up primarily when I'm teaching and so to teach about it and then and then see an item is is something that's even more moving what kind of teaching do you do well I in my own parishes I got apologetics classes and what they're pretty successful we get over a hundred people on a regular basis at any given class and so that's one but then I'm kind of known as the Pope priests so to speak in my diocese and the a few diocese in the area so lots of times I will have people contact me to come to their parish to talk about something in particular I really do apologize so I do a lot of scripture stuff but people history is the the thing that I'm obviously more well known for and then I'm more into and so I'm traveling quite a bit in the diocese and even outside of the diocese to give talks about about these items and then if I'll focus on like one particular item and give the history of it and maybe the interesting story about how I got it then that can be a really moving experience for people and you have to do all this plus be a parish the parish priest that's right an invocation director and vocations right yeah you know just there's a plug for what you do you know this is one of the reasons why we need more young priests you know die young I would say yeah you still may be middle but early middle okay but you know we need we need young men to enter the priesthood because you know our Lord said it well that the harvest is rich but the laborers are few right there really is a great harvest out there and there's a hunger for spiritual needs and and there's a wide variety I mean you've you've carved out a certain niche by your collection right but there are so many other ways in which you know other priests are gonna carve out their niches for an end for young men to consider the priesthood is a it's just a wonderful thing I mean you used to like it don't you oh I love it it's my passion I know my my profession is my hobby yeah I mean and and how many people can say that no you know and then in in just in reference to what you were saying in regards these little niches I mean we're talking about hunting before how many guys are attracted who real men that are wanting to discern the vocation that when you think of priests going on thing well they can see a real man preschool hunting and that's you know I mean that's something it can be attractive yeah and so you know each priest we're not cookies if you help you clean the animal that would be it a particular helpful part of the thing but what priests are not cookie cutters we each have our own interests we each have our own strengths and and so there's always there's always room for young men into the priesthood there's always a whole host of ways that you can utilize your answer there's room for a wide variety of guys that's right now we don't want everybody to be doing the same thing you know how many guys are gonna do the kind of collection you do but you know and hopefully none of them will do bottle top collections but they're like I said but but there'll be other so many other things that you know I come across priests around the country who are just doing marvelous work in particular areas and all of us together make up the disunity very cool thing so that's one of the things too I want to invite people you know to go back to your website because that's again it's WWE artifacts calm and people can learn an awful lot about these artifacts just by going to your website that's right we'll have photos of every item right now it's just in its infancy but I got a great webmaster I got great people helping me out and putting that thing together and I wouldn't be able to do it without them because they're doing a lot of work so I'm dictating I'm dictating every single item in this collection and there's tons of items and then I've got somebody who's actually typing them down and we're getting them into the greeley I've got people that are doing the photographs for me you know these are all people working out of their own you know goodwill to want to do this I have a webmaster who is an excellent webmaster just check the web it's a it's a phenomenal website I'm a particularly happy about it and excited about it because just new it's just getting started so because it's in its infancy be patient with it because there's probably only right around 50 to 60 photographs on the right knowledge probably round 300 items right around 300 items that are explained right now but there's not the images for them except for about 50 and a fraction of the way done so because you said you had about 1,500 items in total so that'll be that'll be a big it'll be a big website it'll be unique there's no other website like it because I've looked there's no other website to where you can really seek out items directly associated with the pulps even the mundane items that tell their story yeah that's a pretty cool thing it's so you know one of the things to that what you're doing by getting these other folks to help you is you know learning this is they're learning but it is part of our mission is also to be expanding out to doing you know not just us doing it all but involving the church that's what we're we show that leadership right and these people are showing their dedication for the love of the church by doing what they're doing because they're doing it out of their own goodwill well thank you very much for being with us tonight appreciate it would you join me in blessing our audience my mighty god bless you and keep you and cause his face to shine upon you the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit amen and you know it's not a usual kind of guest I mean so many of our guests are doing very interesting things and this is one of the more interesting items that we've had but we can bring father kunst and all the other guests here because this network is brought to you by you you make it possible so we're gonna ask you to please make sure that you keep us in between your gas bill your electric bill and your cable bill and that way we'll be able to pay all of our bills and feed them and bring them over here and make sure that he doesn't stay so skinny that's right we gotta get aboard those fried green tomatoes so god bless you and thank you all for your support you

Channel: EWTN

Views: 18,664

Rating: 4.7049179 out of 5

Keywords: SJ Fr Richard Kunst, Catholic

Id: grBZIe2NOxI

Length: 56min 32sec (3392 seconds)

Published: Thu Aug 05 2010