[MUSIC] [APPLAUSE] >> Fr. Pacwa: THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. WELCOME, I'M FATHER MITCH PACWA. WELCOME TO EWTN LIVE WHERE WE BRING YOU GUESTS FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD. TONIGHT, WE'LL BE TALKING WITH FR. CHRIS ALAR AND JASON LEWIS ABOUT THE TRAGIC NATURE OF SUICIDE, AND HOW THE CHURCH MINISTERS TO THE VICTIMS AND THOSE LEFT BEHIND. I KNOW THIS TOPIC HAS TOUCHED MANY OF OUR VIEWERS, OR, SADLY SOME OF YOU MAY DO SO IN THE FUTURE. BUT THIS IS A CONVERSATION YOU DON'T WANT TO MISS. BUT BEFORE WE GET TO THAT, WE WANT TO TALK WITH EWTN'S DIRECTOR OF ONLINE SERVICES, JEFF HAHN, ABOUT EWTN'S CONSTANTLY IMPROVING ONLINE PRESENCE. JEFF, HOW ARE YOU? >> GOOD, FATHER, HOW ARE YOU DOING. >> WELL, IT'S AN IMPORTANT VOICE THAT WE HAVE ON THE INTERNET. AND THE INTERNET WAS MADE AVAILABLE TO THE PUBLIC YEARS AFTER THE NETWORK STARTED. AND WE'RE MAKING A GOOD PRESENCE. TELL US WHAT YOU ARE UP TO. >> YEAH, SURE. HERE AT EWTN, WE'RE ALWAYS TRYING TO EVOLVE. ONE OF THE LATEST PROJECTS THAT WE JUST LAUNCHED WAS ewtnRC.com, FOR THE RELIGIOUS CATALOG. MOTHER STARTED THE CATALOGS FOR THE PURPOSE OF PEOPLE BUYING RELIGIOUS BOOKS, GOODS, JEWELRY AND THOSE PURCHASES GO TO HELP EWTN. SO, WE'VE JUST REDONE THE WEB SITE. AND IT'S MOBILE FRIENDLY. THERE'S A LOT OF DEPTH THERE, FIRST COMMUNION, WEDDINGS, CONFIRMATION, THE SACRAMENTS. ALL OF THOSE SALES GOES TO HELP EWTN. >> I REMEMBER WHEN MOTHER ANGELICA STARTED THE RELIGIOUS CATALOG, ONE OF THE PROBLEMS WAS, THEY LIVED IN PLACES WHERE YOU COULDN'T FIND RELIGIOUS GOODS, SUCH AS ROSARIES OR SCAPULARS AND THEY WERE NOT AROUND. SO, THAT WAS HER FIRST GOAL TO HAVE HOLY REMINDERS IN AND AVAILABLE FOR PEOPLE OF THE AND OF COURSE, IT HELPS US, AS YOU MENTIONED. AND THERE'S A HUGE VARIETY OF THINGS AVAILABLE TO PEOPLE. >> IT IS. THEY ARE CONSTANTLY UPDATING AND THEY HAVE A LOT OF GREAT PRODUCTS ON THERE, SHOWS AND WE ARE EXPANDING INTO THE DIGITAL MARKET AND PURCHASE OF DOWN LOADS OF SHOWS LIKE THIS. THINGS THAT WE AIR. AND LIKE, A WOLF IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING, YOU CAN GET ACCESS TO THAT. AND WE'RE WORKING ON RELAUNCHING ewtn.com. WE'VE GOT SO MANY DIFFERENT APPS AND ALL THE DIFFERENT WAYS THAT YOU CAN REACH US. >> Fr. Pacwa: SO, JEFF, THANKS SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE WITH US. WE'LL BE BACK WITH YOU IN JUST A COUPLE OF MINUTES WITH TONIGHT'S GUEST. SO, PLEASE, STAY WITH US. [APPLAUSE] [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [APPLAUSE] >> Fr. Pacwa: WELCOME BACK. YOU KNOW, IT'S A PAINFUL THING. BUT THERE ARE ABOUT 800,000 PEOPLE A YEAR WHO COMMIT SUICIDE EVERY YEAR, IN THE WORLD. NOT JUST THE UNITED STATES, BUT THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE WORLD. THAT'S ONE PERSON APPROXIMATELY EVERY 40 SECONDS COMMITS SUICIDE. AND FOR EACH SUICIDE COMMITTED, THERE ARE MORE THAN 20 OTHER SUICIDE ATTEMPTS. PEOPLE GET CLOSE TO IT, AND SOMETIMES THEY HOLD THEMSELVES BACK AND SOMETIMES WHAT THEY DO DOESN'T WORK. BUT THERE ARE ATTEMPTS AS WELL. HOW DOES THE CHURCH ADDRESS THE ISSUE OF SUICIDE, AND WHAT CAN THE CHURCH DO TO HELP THOSE FAMILY MEMBERS AND FRIENDS LEFT BEHIND? FRIENDS OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE LEFT BEHIND THAT ARE IN TREMENDOUS PAIN. AND HERE TO HELP US ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS AND MORE ISSUES BESIDES, ARE THE COAUTHORS OF A NEW BOOK SOON TO BE RELEASED. NOT OUT YET BUT SOON WILL BE RELEASED. CALLED "AFTER SUICIDE: THERE'S HOPE FOR THEM AND FOR YOU". SO, PLEASE, WELCOME FROM THE MARIANS OF THE IMMACULATE CONCEPTION IN STOCK BRIDGE, MASSACHUSETTS, FATHER CHRIS ALAR AND JASON LEWIS. [APPLAUSE] >> Fr. Pacwa: YOU KNOW, IT USED TO BE THAT CATHOLICS AND JEWISH PEOPLE HAD A STRONG, LOWER SUICIDE RATE BECAUSE THERE WAS KNOWLEDGE THAT IT WAS A GRAVE SIN AND THEOLOGY ADDRESSED IT. IT WAS A SIN AGAINST THE FIFTH COMMANDMENT, THOU SHALL NOT KILL. YOU DIDN'T GIVE YOURSELF YOUR OWN LIFE AND YOU CAN'T TAKE IT. SO, CATHOLICS AND JEWISH PEOPLE, IN PARTICULAR, HAD LOWER RATES. BUT THAT'S CHANGING. AND WE SEE THE SUICIDE RATE INCREASING. WHAT'S GOING ON, NOT ONLY AMONGST CATHOLICS BUT IN THE REST OF THE WORLD? >> Guest: WELL, YOU MENTIONED, AND WE COVERED AND TALKED ABOUT, IN THE BOOK, THE RATES, AS YOU SAID, ARE SHOCKINGLY GOING UP AND UP -- SUICIDE HAS GONE UP EVERY YEAR FOR THE LAST 10 YEARS, 30% IN TOTAL. I MENTIONED TO YOU BEFORE THE SHOW, THERE'S MORE PEOPLE IN THE WORLD EVERY YEAR NOW RECENTLY THAT TAKE THEIR OWN LIVES THAN ALL OF THE WARS OR HOMICIDES COMBINED. >> Fr. Pacwa: THAT'S SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT. WE HAVE A LOT OF POLITICAL DISCUSSION. IT'S AN IMPORTANT DISCUSSION, THERE ARE SOME ABOUT GUN CONTROL AND STUFF. BUT THERE ARE WAY MORE PEOPLE THAT DIE FROM SUICIDE THAN FROM MURDER. >> Guest: YES. >> Guest: AND WAR COMBINED. >> Fr. Pacwa: AND WAR COMBINED WITH ALL OF THE MURDERS. >> Guest: YEAH. AND THAT'S WHAT'S LED MANY PEOPLE TO CALL IT AN EPIDEMIC. WE GO SO FAR TO SAY IT THE HAS THE CHARACTERISTICS OF A PANDEMIC. AND FATHER MITCH, WE'RE GETTING THE MOST HEARTBREAKING, IT'S BECOME THE MOST DIFFICULT PART OF MY MINISTRY AND WHERE I NOW FEEL THAT IT'S THE MOST NEEDED. AS I EXPLAIN IN THE BOOK, I LOST MY GRANDMOTHER TO SUICIDE AND THAT WAS REALLY THE IMPETUS TO THE BOOK. BUT WE GET CALLS, LETTERS, VOICE MAILS, EMAILS, TEXTS. AND I WANT TO SHARE ONE WITH YOU AS AN EXAMPLE. SOMEBODY CLOSE TO US, CLOSE TO OUR FAMILY BACK IN STOCK BRIDGE. TEXTED TO US THAT THEIR SON'S BEST FRIEND TOOK HIS LIFE YESTERDAY, THE DAY AFTER ANOTHER MAN IN THE SCHOOL, BOY IN THE SCHOOL HUNG HIMSELF. THIS MAN JUST SHOT HIMSELF YESTERDAY. SO, THERE WAS TWO DAYS AND THE FIRST HANGING OCCURRED ON MONDAY. THEN THIS BOY TOOK HIS LIFE SHOOTING HIMSELF TUESDAY. AND THIS MORNING, ON WEDNESDAY, HIS GIRLFRIEND JUST TOOK HER LIFE. THIS IS AN UNBELIEVABLY DIFFICULT BUT YET NEEDED TOPIC THAT WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT. >> Fr. Pacwa: BECAUSE IT'S NOT SO UNUSUAL THAT IT GOES IN THESE KIND OF CHAIN REACTIONS THAT ONE SUICIDE, WAY TOO OFTEN, TRIGGERS SOMEBODY ELSE THAT'S KNOWN TO THAT PERSON TO COMMIT SUICIDE. OR MAYBE IT WAS A TELEVISION SHOW. >> Guest: WE HAVE IT IN THE BOOK, 13 REASONS WHY THEY HAVE THE EMPIRICAL DATA TO BACK THIS UP. BUT THE EXAMPLES OF SEVERANCE, THE EXAMPLES THAT WERE USED BY KIDS TO ACTUALLY BE INTERESTED IN TAKING THEIR LIVES THAT CAME FROM THAT SHOW IS VERY ALARMING. VERY ALARMING. >> Fr. Pacwa: THEY WATCHED A TV SHOW AND THEY HAD TO EITHER CHANGE THE LAST EPISODE BECAUSE IT HAD AN IMPACT ON TOO MANY TEENAGERS THAT WERE IMITATING THIS. >> Guest: AND AS FATHER CHRIS SAID, IT'S REACHING A PANDEMIC LEVEL CUTTING ACROSS SOCIAL AND CULTURALS. AND WE WERE ABLE TO MINISTER TO SOME PEOPLE IN STOCK BRIDGE. FATHER CAME OUT OF THE CONFESSIONAL. AND A GIRL CAUGHT EYE CONTACT WITH HIM AND SHE WAS CRYING AND DISTRAUGHT. HE ENDED UP TALKING TO HIM. AND SHE SAID, I JUST WANT TO KILL MYSELF, AND FATHER ACTUALLY APPLIED SOME PRINCIPLES FROM OUR BOOK AND TALKED TO HER. THERE WAS A CHANGE IN HER DISPOSITION. AND FATHER, IT WAS NOT PROBABLY AN HOUR LATER AND ANOTHER MAN CAME UP TO US WITH HIS MOTHER. AND HE WAS DISTRAUGHT AS WELL. HE SAID, I JUST WANT TO KILL MYSELF, TAKE MY LIFE. I DON'T WANT TO LIVE ANY MORE. AND HE WAS ENGAGED WITH SHAMANISM AND OTHER PRACTICES NOT CONDUCIVE TO A RICH SPIRITUAL LIFE. >> Fr. Pacwa: WELL, NOT A CHRISTIAN LIFE, IT MAY BE SPIRITUAL BUT ON THE WRONG SIDE OF THINGS. >> Guest: HOW MUCH OF GOD'S MERCY WANTS TO STEP IN HERE. AND THE SAME YOUNG LADY I SPOKE TO FROM THE UKRAINE. I WANTED TO ADD THIS. WE'RE AT THE SHRINE AND I'M SPEAKING TO HER. SHE WAS IN HER LATE 20'S. I TELL HER, SHE WAS TELLING ME HER STORY AND THEN I'M THINKING ABOUT THE CONTEXT OF THE BOOK. AND I SAID, GOD LOVES YOU SO MUCH. YOU WOULDN'T BE IN EXISTENCE IF GOD DIDN'T LOVE YOU. AND SHE SAID, NOBODY LOVES ME. I SAID, YOU HAVE SO MUCH TO LIVE FOR. I SAID YOU ARE BEAUTIFUL AND YOU SPEAK BEAUTIFUL ENGLISH. AND SHE SAID, I DON'T SPEAK ENGLISH, I DON'T KNOW HOW I'M TALKING TO YOU RIGHT NOW. >> Fr. Pacwa: BUT HER ENGLISH WAS GOOD? OR -- >> WELL, GOD WAS GIVING ME THE GRACE TO HEAR HER IN UKRAINIAN OR GAVE ME THE GRACE TO HEAR HER IN ENGLISH BECAUSE SHE WAS GIVEN THIS GRACE. AND SHE SAID, I SAID, YOU SPEAK BEAUTIFUL ENGLISH. AND SHE SAID, FATHER, I DON'T SPEAK ENGLISH. >> Fr. Pacwa: PRETTY GOOD. >> AND THIS IS POSSIBLE FOR THE APOSTLES FOR PEOPLE THAT DON'T KNOW THE LANGUAGE. THERE ARE A NUMBER OF REASONS THAT PEOPLE COMMIT SUICIDE. AND I KNOW THAT IN SOME CULTURES AND HONOR VS. SHAME AS THE SPECTRUM OF VALUES. NOW, PEOPLE SAY, YOU KNOW, AMONGST SHAME AND HONOR, YOU KNOW, I'LL JUST KILL MYSELF. IT'S PART OF SOME OF THE CULTURES, LIKE, JAPANESE, EARLIER, ROMAN CULTURE. THAT WAS VERY IMPORTANT IN ROMAN CULTURE. AND A FEW OTHER SOCIETIES. YOU KNOW, THERE WERE PEOPLE THAT DO IT FOR THAT REASON. THAT'S NOT SO COMMON IN THE WEST, I DON'T THINK. BUT IT'S COMMON IN OTHER CULTURES. AND WHAT ELSE DO YOU SEE AS SOME OF THE MOTIVES. >> WE LISTED IT IN THE BOOK AS WELL. AND IN FACT, FATHER MITCH, I POINT BACK TO YOU, I WAS ON A PARISH MISSION, I TURNED ON EWTN LATE NIGHT, AFTER MY TALK. I SAW YOU ON TELEVISION. AND YOU HAD A GUEST ON. SOME OTHER TOPIC CAME UP OF SUICIDE. AND YOU LOOKED AT THE GUEST AND YOU SAID, YOU KNOW, I BELIEVE IT'S BECAUSE OF A LACK OF PEACE. AND ONE OF THE MAIN THINGS THAT WE TOUCHED ON IN THIS BOOK IS THAT CONNECTION THAT JESUS MADE WITH ST. FAUSTINA. MANKIND DOES NOT HAVE PEACE UNTIL THEY TURN WITH TRUST TO MY MERCY. WE HAVEN'T DONE THAT. AND WHAT WE LAY OUT IN THE BOOK, OBVIOUSLY, ONE OF THE BIG REASONS IS A LACK OF PEACE AND AN ABSENCE OF GOD OF THE AND THOMAS AQUINAS TELLS US IT'S A DEPRIVATION OF GOOD WHEN WE REMOVE GOD FROM OUR FAMILIES, COURTS, SCHOOLS, AND WE'RE REMOVING THIS AND THIS IS WHERE THIS IS HAPPENING, SCHOOL SHOOTINGS, SUICIDE. >> AND BY NO MEANS DOES THIS MEAN THAT ALL ATHEISTS WANT TO COMMIT SUICIDE. BUT THIS ABSENCE OF PEACE IS, YOU KNOW, CONNECTED WITH THE ABSENCE OF GOD. >> Guest: ABSOLUTELY. >> Fr. Pacwa: AND OF COURSE, THERE'S A THIRD CATEGORY. THERE'S SOME PEOPLE WHOSE MIND IS SO DISTURBED. THAT THERE CAN BE OTHER DISTURBANCES OF A PSYCHOLOGICAL, EMOTIONAL, DEMONIC OR OF A CHEMICAL NATURE THAT EFFECTS A LOT OF PEOPLE. THAT'S ANOTHER CATEGORY. BUT I THINK WHEN WE, WELL, WE HAVE A CLEAR UNDERSTANDING, SAY, WHEN SOMEBODY HAS A MENTALLY DIFFICULT TIME TO THINK RATIONALLY, THEY CAN'T, FOR SOME REASON, THEIR EMOTIONS ARE, YOU KNOW, THEY ARE NOT CULPABLE. >> AND THE CATECHISM SPELLS THIS OUT 2282, IN THE BOOK, GRAVE PSYCHOLOGICAL DISTURBANCES, ANXIETY, PAIN, TORTURE, THESE ARE ALL THINGS THAT COULD BE MITIGATING CIRCUMSTANCES THAT DON'T MAKE A PERSON FULLY CULPABLE. FROM OUR CATECHISM, FOR A SIN TO BE MORTAL, FREE WILL HAS TO BE PRESENT. >> Fr. Pacwa: AND IT'S IMPORTANT TO KEEP IN MIND, SUICIDE, LIKE MURDER, WHICH THAT COMES FROM, IN PART, THE LATIN WORD FOR MURDER. BUT THE SUI, YOU DO IT TO YOURSELF. >> YEAH, TO KILL ONE SELF. >> Fr. Pacwa: AND OBJECTIVELY, IT'S AN EVIL. YOU KNOW, IT'S PAINFUL. BUT SUBJECTIVELY IS ANOTHER ISSUE. >> WE DON'T KNOW. WE TRUST TO THE MERCY OF GOD IS WHAT IT SAYS IN THE CATECHISM. >> AND ESPECIALLY WHEN THERE'S MENTAL OR EMOTIONAL DISORDER. THAT'S ANOTHER CATEGORY. NOW, SOME PEOPLE DON'T SEE THE PURPOSE OF LIFE ANY MORE, THEY DON'T THINK ANYBODY LOVES THEM ANY MORE. MAYBE SOMEBODY NEVER LOVED THEM AS FAR AS THEY ARE CONCERNED. AND IT COULD BE REAL. >> WE TOUCHED ON ST. THOMAS, BUT WE TOUCHED UPON THOMAS OF AQUINAS AND ST. AUGUSTINE OF HIPPO. AND ONE OF MY FAVORITE QUOTES, THE HEART IS RESTLESS UNTIL IT RESTS IN YOU, 0 GOD. SO, WE'RE CREATED FOR OUR HEARTS TO BE ORIENTED AND GEARED TOWARDS GOD. THE HEART IS NOT SATIATE HAD OR SATISFIED UNTIL IT RESTS IN THE PRESENCE OF GOD AND RECEIVES GOD. SO, WE SEE TODAY IN CULTURE AND IN OUR SOCIETY, THERE'S A LONGING. A LONGING FOR SOMETHING MORE THAN WHAT WE HAVE AROUND US AND WHAT'S IMMEDIATELY PRESENT IN OUR SPACE TIME SPHERES. AND PEOPLE ARE LOOKING FOR SOMETHING. AND PEOPLE ARE HUNGRY UNTIL THEY FIND CHRIST'S LOVE, AND HIS MERCY, IT'S ALWAYS ON THE PROWL LOOKING FOR SOMETHING ELSE. IF IT DOESN'T FIND IT, THEN THE HEART IS EMPTY AND IT FALLS INTO DESPAIR. >> THAT'S OFTEN TIME KEY, THE ROLE OF DESPAIR. I WANT TO ASK YOU, HOW WOULD YOU DEFINE IT OR DESCRIBE IT. >> WELL, THE COMMON UNDERSTANDING OR THE CHURCH'S DEFINITION. AND THE CHURCH'S DEFINITION IS VERY SERIOUS. THE TWO WAYS THAT A SOUL IS LOST, PRESUMPTION, HEY, I'M FINE, I DON'T NEED GOD. I DON'T NEED FORGIVENESS. I DON'T NEED MERCY, I'M FINE. >> Fr. Pacwa: I ASKED FOR FORGIVENESS A LONG TIME AGO, I'M OKAY. >> AND THEN, RIGHT, THAT THEY THINK THEY ARE GOING TO HEAVEN, GOD DOESN'T SEND ANYBODY TO HELL. AND THEN ON THE OTHER SPECTRUM IS DESPAIR, GOD DOESN'T LOVE ME, NOBODY LOVES ME AND THERE'S A COMPLETE DESPAIR, COMPLETE LACK OF HOPE. AND WE EXPLAIN IN THE BOOK, IN THE COMMON SENSE OF THE WORD DESPAIR, WE HAVE MEASURED IT AGAINST THE CHURCH'S TEACHING OF DESPAIR. AND MY GRANDMOTHER WHO TOOK HER OWN LIFE, SHE DESPAIRED. IT WAS NOT IN THE WAY THAT SHE DIDN'T BELIEVE IN GOD'S MERCY. I KNOW THAT SHE BELIEVED IT. SHE DESPAIRED IN THE COMMON SENSE OF THE WORD, SHE GAVE UP THE FIGHT. SHE COULD NOT TAKE ANOTHER DAY OF THE SUFFERING, OF THE ANGUISH, THE PAIN, PHYSICAL PAIN. AND YOU KNOW, WE HEAR THIS, FATHER, ALL THE TIME. YOU KNOW, I'M GOING THROUGH A LOT OF PHYSICAL PROBLEMS NOW. I'VE GOT BLOOD CLOTS, PULMONARY EMBOLISM, BLOCKAGE IN MY HEART, HAD A EXTENT PUT IN. I JUST HAD NON BENIGN PRE CANCEROUS POLYP AND NOW I HAVE KIDNEY STONES. AND HE SAID, IF YOU ARE GOING TO WRITE A BOOK, YOU BETTER EXPECT TO SUFFER. THE PHYSICAL SUFFERING IS ONE THING AND JASON POINTED ON YOU, THE EMOTIONAL AND SPIRITUAL SUFFERING IS ALSO TREMENDOUS. YOU KNOW, I JUST HAD A SITUATION WITH SOMEBODY THAT WAS VERY CLOSE TO ME, SOMEBODY THAT I TRUSTED AND COUNTED ON. AND THEY TOTALLY BETRAYED ME AND TOTALLY TURNED THEIR BACK ON ME. I TELL YOU, I THINK THAT PAIN HURT MORE THAN ANY OF THE PHYSICAL PAIN THAT I'M GOING THROUGH. SO, DESPAIR IN THE SENSE OF WHAT MY GRANDMOTHER WENT THROUGH, I BELIEVE NOT THE SAME DESPAIR THAT THE CHURCH SAYS CAUSES THE LOSS OF SALVATION. SO, WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL. IT'S NOT A FREE GREEN LIGHT TO TAKE YOUR LIFE BECAUSE YOU ARE SUFFERING. YOU CAN'T. AND AS JASON POINTED OUT, SUICIDE IS A PERMANENT RESPONSE TO TEMPORARY PROBLEMS. IT'S NOT THE ANSWER. >> Fr. Pacwa: I THINK THAT'S A KEY THING TO HIGHLIGHT. IT'S A PERMANENT RESPONSE TO TEMPORARY PROBLEMS. YOU CAN'T UNDO IT. YOU JUST CAN'T UNDO A SUICIDE. AND YOUR PROBLEMS WOULD HAVE GONE AWAY, MOST LIKELY BECAUSE THEY USUALLY DO. >> Guest: I THINK PEOPLE GET INTO DESPAIR AND DEPRESSION. THEY ARE IN A THICK BLACK FOREST THEY CAN'T SEE THEIR WAY OUT OF IT. THEY THINK IT'S NEVER GOING TO END. AND THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS, IF WE TURN TO GOD, WE KNOW THAT HIS LIFE IS IMMENSE AND HE IS THERE. SIMPLY BEING IN HIS PRESENCE AND WHY THE CHAPLET OF DIVINE MERCY IS SO POWERFUL. EASY PRAYER TO PRAY. ETERNAL FATHER, I OFFER YOU THE SOUL, BODY, BLOOD AND DIVINITY OF THE DEARLY BELOVED SON, OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST. AND HE CAN JUST PENETRATE THROUGH THE DARKNESS, DESPAIR AND HE MEETS US WITH WHERE WE ARE. WE DON'T HAVE TO GET WELL TO GET HIM TO COME TO US. JESUS TAKES THE FIRST STEPPING OF BLESSING TO COME TUESDAY, HEAL US AND OPENING UP THE VEIL OF HIS HEART TO POUR OUT HIS RAYS OF MERCY AND LOVE FOR US. AND THAT IMAGE IN AND OF ITSELF HAS THE POWER TO HEAL IF SOMEBODY IS IN DARKNESS AND DESPAIR. I'VE BEEN THERE, AND I UNDERSTAND THE POWER OF THE IMAGE IN THE CHAPLET OF THE DIVINE MERCY. >> AND IN THE TITLE WE POINT OUT, AFTER SUICIDE, AND THIS BOOK IS NOT MEANT TO BE A PREVENTATIVE TOOL. IT'S MORE POST-VENTIVE. HOW TO HELP THOSE IN TWO ASPECTS OF THE ONE OF THE GREATEST SUFFERINGS THAT COME FROM SUICIDE, I KNOW WHAT I WENT THROUGH WITH MY GRANDMOTHER, DID SHE GO TO HELL. IS SHE AUTOMATICALLY CONDEMNED? >> Fr. Pacwa: THAT'S A MAJOR, MAJOR CONCERN FOR A LOT OF FOLKS. >> Guest: AND WHAT THE CATECHISM TEACHES IN THE CATECHISM, IT HAS MITIGATING CIRCUMSTANCES. BUT IN 2283, IT MAKES A POWERFUL STATEMENT. DOESN'T HAVE A LOT TO SAY ABOUT SUICIDE BUT WHAT IT SAYS IS POWERFUL. IT SAYS, WE SHOULD NOT DESPAIR. MEANING THE CHURCH DEFINITION OF DESPAIR OF THOSE WHO HAVE TAKEN THEIR OWN LIFE BY WAYS KNOWN TO HIM ALONE, GOD CAN OFFER THE OPPORTUNITY FOR SOLITARY REPENTANCE. AND FATHER, WHAT STRUCK ME IN MY EPIPHANY OF HOPE MOMENT THAT WE TALK ABOUT IN THIS BOOK, IT TIED IT TO THE PARAGRAPH 1486 IN THE DIARY OF ST. FAUSTINA. JESUS SAYS, I COME TO THE SOUL THREE TIMES, GIVING THEM THE OPPORTUNITY TO REPENT. PEOPLE WOULD SAY, CHRIS, YOUR GRANDMOTHER TOOK HER LIFE. AND UNFORTUNATELY, SORRY TO BE GRAPHIC BUT SHE SHOT HERSELF. THERE WAS NO CHANCE TO REPENT. SHE PULLED THE TRIGGER AND INSTANTANEOUSLY SHE DIED. BUT IN THE TIME THAT IT TAKES THE BULLET TO TRAVEL THREE INCHES, GOD CAN COME TO THE SOUL AND SAY, GIVE YOU THE OPPORTUNITY TO ACCEPT MY MERCY. HE CAN CREATE A UNIVERSE. THIS IS THE OPPORTUNITY FOR THOSE WHO HAVE PASSED FOR SALVATION. WE KNOW THAT OUR PRAYERS TODAY ARE JUST AS EFFECTIVE IF I HAD MADE THEM AT MY GRANDMOTHER'S DEATH BED OR THE MOMENT BEFORE SHE DIED. WE HAVE BEAUTIFUL SUPPORT IN THIS BOOK, LIKE FR. SPITZER, RIGHT HERE, OF OWN, PETER KREFT AND WE SAW PADRE PIO, AND THEY TALK ABOUT GOD WHO IS OMNIPOTENT AND OMNISCIENT AND WHEN PADRE PIO WAS TALKED ABOUT, AND HE SAID, THE HAPPY DEATH OF MY GRANDFATHER. AND THE DOCTOR SAID HE WAS DEAD FOR 20 YEARS AND GOD TAKES THE PRAYER INTO THE ACCOUNT OF WHEN HE DIED. >> GOD IS ETERNAL AND EVERYTHING IS ONE MOMENT TO HIM. AND OUR PRAYERS EFFECT THE DISPOSITION OF SOMEBODY BACK IN TIME. THAT HAS IMPLICATIONS FOR EVERYBODY, NOT JUST THOSE DIED BY SUICIDE BUT IMPLICATIONS FOR ANYBODY WHO DIED FOR AN ACCIDENTAL REASON WHO DIDN'T RECEIVE THE SACRAMENTS BEFORE HE DIED. WE CAN PRAY AND THERE'S HUGE IMPLICATIONS FOR THOSE WHO HAVE DIED AND LOST THEIR LIVES THAT WE PRAY FOR THEM IN THE NOW. >> AND FATHER, WE GOT TO CLARIFY, WE'RE NOT CLAIMING YOU ARE GOING TO GET SOMEBODY OUT OF HELL. THAT'S NOT THE CHURCH TEACHINGS. >> Fr. Pacwa: NO, IF SOMEBODY IS IN HELL, YOU CANNOT GET THEM OUT. >> RIGHT. I NEED TO BE CLEAR, FATHER, MY PASTOR SAID YOU ARE WRONG, YOU CAN GET YOUR GRANDMOTHER OUT OF HELL. AND I HAD TO WRITE BACK AND I SAID, I NEVER CLAIMED THAT. AND SECONDLY, THEY SAY, FATHER, YOU CAN'T SAY YES FOR YOUR GRANDMOTHER. NO. BUT THE CATHOLIC BASIS IS INTERCESSORY PRAYER. AND JESUS TOLD ST. FAUSTINA, SALVATION OF THOUSANDS OF SOULS DEPEND ON YOUR PRAYER. NOT BECAUSE THE GRACE COMES FROM US, AS YOU KNOW THAT, FATHER, BUT GOD USES US IN INTERCESSORY PRAYER. >> Fr. Pacwa: AND ONE OF THE POINTS WE NEED TO KEEP IN MIND, AND ONE OF THE MOST POPULAR VERSES AMONGST PEOPLE WHO HAVE LOST THEIR FAITH OR ARE HALF AND HALF IN AND OUT OF THEIR FAITH. IT SAYS IN THE BIBLE, DON'T JUDGE. WELL, A, I CAN MAKE A MORAL ASSESSMENT OF AN ACTION. >> OF THE IDIOTIC BEHAVIOR THAT YOU HAVE CHOSEN TO DO. YOU ARE JUST BEING IGNORANT. SO, CUT IT OUT! AND MY FATHER AND MOTHER HAD NO PROBLEM WITH MY ASSESSMENT OF THAT BEHAVIOR. BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, I CANNOT JUDGE IF SOMEBODY IS IN HEAVEN OR HELL. I DO NOT KNOW WHAT GOD DOES TO JUDGE. THAT'S WHY THE CHURCH HAS NEVER SAID, WELL, JUDAS ISCARIOT IS FRYING IN HELL. NO, WE DON'T KNOW THAT. AND TAUGHT EVEN IN THE 1950'S, YOU KIDS DON'T REMEMBER THAT! BUT BACK IN THE 1950'S, THE NUNS TAUGHT US, FOR ALL YOU KNOW, JUDAS ISCARIOT COULD HAVE REPENTED BEFORE HE DIED. WE DON'T KNOW. SO, WE LEAVE THAT NON JUDGMENT OF THE FAITH OF SOMEBODY'S SOUL UP TO GOD. AS I SAY, JUDGMENT IS A MANAGEMENT ISSUE. I ALWAYS SAY THAT. GOD IS MANAGEMENT. AND WE'RE IN SALES. WELL, THAT'S OUR JOB. WE PREACH THE GOSPEL. AND GOD TAKES CARE OF RUNNING THINGS. BESIDES, MY DAD WAS A USED CAR SALESMAN SO I UNDERSTAND THAT. >> WELL, OPENING UP TO JASON HERE, THE FIRST PART OF THE BOOK, TITLE IS, THERE'S HOPE TO THEM THEM, HOPE FOR THEM. AND WE DISCUSS THE POSSIBILITY OF THEIR SALVATION. AGAIN, THERE'S NO GUARANTEE BUT THERE'S HOPE FOR SALVATION. AND THE SECOND HALF OF THE BOOK, THERE'S HOPE FOR YOU. WHAT'S THAT? THOSE WHO ARE LEFT BEHIND THAT WE GET LETTERS FROM, I DON'T KNOW HOW I CAN GET THROUGH ANOTHER DAY. I DON'T KNOW HOW I CAN GET UP IN THE MORNING. JASON DID AN EXCELLENT JOB AS COAUTHOR TO APPLY WHAT WE FEEL IS MISSING IN ALL OF THE BOOKS THAT ARE OUT THERE TODAY ON SUICIDE. MANY ON PREVENTION AND POST-VENTION BUT VERY FEW TACKLE WHAT'S THE CURE OR THE MEDICINE TO GETTING THROUGH. AND THAT IS, THESE PRINCIPLES THAT JASON CAN EXPLAIN. >> Fr. Pacwa: OKAY. GET THROUGH THOSE BECAUSE WE HAVE A SHORT TIME. >> THREE PRINCIPLES, WHEN SOMEBODY LOST SOMEBODY THEY LOVE, ESPECIALLY TO SUICIDE, WE'RE POWERLESS OVER THE LOSS, AND WE DON'T HAVE ANY POWER OVER THE IMMEDIATE EFFECTS ON OURSELVES OR THEM. AND WE ADMIT WE'RE POWERLESS. AND SECOND IMAGE, JESUS I TRUST IN YOU. WE COME TO TRUST THAT JESUS IN HIS MERCY WILL RESTORE OUR LIVES TO MANAGEABILITY. AND WHEN WE'RE LIVING IN THAT STATE OF LOSS FOR SOMEBODY THAT WAS SO CLOSE TO US, THAT WE LOVE WHO WAS PART OF US, PART OF WHO WE ARE, WE BECOME ENTIRELY DISORIENT AND WE ENTRUST THAT JESUS WILL RESTORE OUR LIVES TO MANAGEABILITY AND INTO GOD'S LOVE, CARE, AND PROTECTION. AND NOW, THE CATHOLIC THINGS THAT ARE AT THE CENTER, MASS, CHAPLET OF DIVINE MERCY, BLESSED MOTHER, OUR LADY OF SORROWS, AND EUCHARISTIC ADORATION. I DON'T KNOW OF ANY OTHER POWERFUL MEANS THAT JUST COMING BEFORE OUR BLESSED LORD. SIT BEFORE HIM. DON'T SAY ANYTHING, DON'T HAVE TO BE ANYTHING. NO RESTRICTIONS, JUST TO COME AND SIT IN HIS LOVING, HEALING PRESENCE. IT'S LIKE RADIATION THERAPY FOR THE SOUL. AND IT TRANSFORMS US IN RAPID TIME. AND MAKING US INTO NEW CREATION, A NEW BEING. >> AND WE HAVE THE GREATEST MEDICINE IN THE WORLD, THE PENICILLIN OF ALL AND MOTHER MARY, THE NURSE TO ADMINISTER IT. AND NOBODY IS GOING TO THE HOSPITAL, THE CHURCH TO RECEIVE IT. IT'S JUST, AND THIS IS WHAT WE'RE POINTING OUT HERE. WE LEAVE OUT SIMPLY, JUST TO GET THROUGH THESE PAINS IS NEVER GOING TO GO AWAY. BE IT PHYSICAL PAIN, LIKE MY GRANDMOTHER OR THE SPIRITUAL, EMOTIONAL PAIN FINDING OUT THAT SOMEBODY YOU LOVE HATES YOU. THERE'S NO MORE HORRIBLE FEELING. YOU FEEL LIKE YOU CAN'T GET THROUGH ANOTHER DAY. AND THE ANSWER IS, YES, WITH GOD, YOU CAN. AND YOU SHARE IN THE CROSS. I'M NOT SAYING THAT THIS IS EVER EVER EASY. NO, NO, OF COURSE NOT. BUT WHAT IT IS, IT'S MEDICINE FOR THE SOUL, PENICILLIN, EUCHARIST ADMINISTERED BY OUR MOTHER MARY AND GOING IN THE HOSPITAL, GOING TO THE CHURCH TO GET THE MEDICINE. WHY DON'T WE REALIZE THAT? EVEN OUR OWN CATHOLICS DON'T REALIZE THAT. >> Fr. Pacwa: THIS IS ONE OF THE POINTS THAT POPE FRANCIS HAS MADE ABOUT THE CHURCH BEING LIKE A FIELD. THE WORLD IS BATTLE. THERE'S PEOPLE BATTLING OVER THIS, THEY WANT US TO LOOK AT THE MEANINGLESSNESS OF LIFE. AND THEY ARE BATTLING TO WIN OUR YOUNG PEOPLE OVER TO ATHEISM OR PURPOSELESSNESS OR TO SERVE THEM. AND YOU KNOW, THERE'S A BATTLE OVER RIGHT AND WRONG. BALLOT -- BATTLES THAT ARE SPIRITUAL, WITH THE EVIL ONE AND GOD. ALL OF THIS BATTLE IS GOING ON. AND WE HAVE TO BE PEOPLE WILLING TO BE WORKING IN THAT FIELD HOSPITAL. ALSO, WHEN WE'RE HURT, WE HAVE TO GO AND GET HELP. >> GENERALS ON THE BATTLEFIELD, THAT'S FOR SURE. >> Fr. Pacwa: I'M NOT SURE I'M A GENERAL. BUT I JUST TRY TO DO WHAT I CAN. [LAUGHTER] >> Fr. Pacwa: WE NEED TO TAKE A BREAK AND WE'LL BE BACK IN JUST A COUPLE OF MINUTES TO HEAR SOME OF YOUR QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS. SO, PLEASE, STAY WITH US! [APPLAUSE] [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [APPLAUSE] >> Fr. Pacwa: ALL RIGHT. WELL, WELCOME BACK. AND YOU TWO, ARE YOU READY FOR QUESTIONS? >> Guest: SURE. >> Fr. Pacwa: AND WE HAVE FATHER ALAR AND JASON LEWIS AND WE'RE TAKING QUESTIONS FROM THE STUDIO AUDIENCE. WHERE ARE YOU FROM. >> I'M FROM NEWTON, MISSISSIPPI. DO YOU HAVE ANY COMMENT ABOUT -- >> Guest: UNFORTUNATELY, TREMENDOUSLY. >> Guest: IF YOU READ ANY ANALYSIS ON THE WEB RIGHT NOW, WE'RE THE MOST CONNECTED CULTURE IN HUMAN HISTORY. AND IN ONE SENSE, THE MOST DISCONNECTED BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE HIDING BEHIND THEIR SCREENS, HIDING BEHIND ANONYMOUS POSTINGS AND EVEN SOMETIMES IT'S NOT ANONYMOUS. AS I SAID BEFORE, I WAS HURT BY SOMEBODY I TRUSTED. THEY POSTED ON FACEBOOK SOMETHING VERY NEGATIVE, VERY HURTFUL. AND I WAS, LIKE, OKAY. THIS IS HIDING BEHIND SOCIAL MEDIA ASPECT. AND THE RESULT FOR INSTANCES AFTER 13 REASONS WHY, THE RESULTS OF THE GOOGLE SEVERANCE ON HOW TO COMMIT SUICIDE, HOW TO TAKE YOUR OWN LIFE WENT UP 20-30%. AND THE WORST EXAMPLE THAT I THINK OF SOCIAL MEDIA AND USING THIS IS A CASE IN MASSACHUSETTS WHERE A YOUNG BOY TOOK HIS OWN LIFE. IT WAS HIS OWN GIRLFRIEND THAT WAS TAUNTING HIM THROUGH SOCIAL MEDIA, DO IT. YOU ARE A COWARD IF YOU DON'T. AND THIS YOUNG BOY DIDN'T WANT TO TAKE HIS OWN LIFE. BUT THE SOCIAL MEDIA TAUNTING MADE HIM FEEL LIKE A COWARD IF HE DIDN'T. SO, THE ANSWER IS, FATHER, HOW DO WE PARALLEL THAT INTO A POSITIVE MEDIUM RATHER THAN A NEGATIVE? IT'S REALLY A PANDORA'S BOX RIGHT NOW. >> Fr. Pacwa: AND IN FACT, I WAS JUST LISTENING TO DOCTOR DREW PINSKI, AN EXPERT IN ADDICTION AND ADDICTIVE BEHAVIORS. HE WAS SAYING RECENTLY THAT THE EFFECT OF WATCHING AND LOOKING AT THE MEDIA IS RELEASING DOPAMINE, SIMILAR REACTION TO THE USE OF VARIOUS DRUGS. IT'S WORKING ON THE SAME PART OF THE BRAIN AS DRUGS DO. AND IT'S NOT GIVING A SATISFACTORY RELATIONSHIP. YOU ARE SUBSTITUTING THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO ARE YOUR FRIENDS WHEN THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW YOU. AND THAT'S ACTUAL CONTACT WITH FRIENDS. AND THIS IS NOT HELPFUL. SO, IT'S A SERIOUS PROBLEM. SO, WE HAVE A CALLER, HELLO, MARY. MARY, ARE YOU THERE? >> Voice: HELLO. >> Fr. Pacwa: HI, WHERE ARE YOU CALLING FROM? >> Voice: I'M ON THE AIR, RIGHT? >> Fr. Pacwa: YES, YOU ARE. >> Voice: OKAY. I'M AN OLD LADY RIGHT NOW. BUT IN MY YOUNG DAYS, I ATTEMPTED SUICIDE THREE TIMES. AND THIS IS MY ADVICE TO ANYONE WHO IS THINKING OF SUICIDE. I KNOW, FATHER, YOU ARE IN CHURCH, YOU ARE A PRIEST, WHATEVER. BUT IT'S FAST WHEN YOU ARE VERY YOUNG. WHATEVER THE INCIDENT IS, IT MAY BE SO MINUTE, BUT WHEN NO ONE LISTENS, NO ONE UNDERSTANDS WHAT THE ISSUE IS THAT'S BUILDING UP AND BUILDING UP UNTIL YOU START TO SUFFOCATE, THE ONLY ONE WHO SAVED MY LIFE WAS A NUN WHO DURING CATECHISM CLASSES STRESSED THE POINT THAT SUICIDE WHAT A MORTAL SIN AND IF YOU COMMITTED IT, GOD WOULD NOT LOVE YOU ANY MORE OR YOU WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO CONVERSE WITH GOD. BECAUSE SUICIDE CONVERSES WITH THE ONLY ONE THAT SHE KNOWS OR LISTENING IS GOD OR THE BLESSED MOTHER. NO ONE ELSE WILL LISTEN AND HELP THAT PERSON. AND MY ADVICE TO PARENTS TODAY ARE NO MATTER HOW STUPID YOUR CHILD SOUNDS, NO MATTER HOW HIS REASONING IS, LISTEN. LISTEN AND YOU KNOW WHAT THEY ARE THINKING. AND YOU KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON BECAUSE EVENTUALLY, WHEN SOMEONE LISTENS, YOU WILL COME OUT. WHAT'S BOTHERING YOU AND WHAT IS OUT, NOW, TO ME, WHAT KEPT ME FROM IT IS, SO CLOSE TO IT, WITH PILLS IN MY HAND AND THAT. THE ONLY THING THAT PREVENTED ME WAS THAT GOD WOULD HATE ME, NOT LOVE ME ANY MORE. AND I MAY NOT FORGIVE ME OR NOT HAVE THE LOVE OF GOD OR THE BLESSED MOTHER. AND AS I WENT ALONG IN MARRIED LIFE AND THAT, UNTIL I GOT HELP. AND I LEARNED TO EXPRESS MYSELF AND THE PEOPLE THAT CANNOT EXPRESS THIS FEELING INSIDE, THE COMMENT. NO MATTER, YOU CAN WRITE ALL THE BOOKS YOU WANT. YOU HAVE TO LISTEN AND IT'S STARTING WHEN A CHILD IS YOUNG. >> Fr. Pacwa: OKAY. THANK YOU, MARY. OKAY. THANK YOU. I THINK THAT'S VERY MUCH SPOT ON. I'LL NEVER FORGET WHEN SOME OF MY COUSINS IN POLAND WERE ASKING ME ABOUT SOME OF THE THINGS IN AMERICAN CULTURE. AS I EXPLAINED TO THEM A FEW THINGS, I SAID, THEY SAID, IT SOUNDS TO US AS IF THE CHILDREN DON'T KNOW THE HEARTS OF THEIR PARENTS. BUT I SAY ALSO, IT'S THE OTHER WAY. A LOT OF PARENTS DON'T KNOW THE HEARTS OF THEIR CHILDREN. THERE'S NOT A LOT OF LISTENING. >> Guest: AND FATHER, THINK, WE TOUCH UPON THAT AS WELL. AS HUMAN BEINGS, WE'RE MADE TO BE IN COMMUNION, MADE TO BE IN COMMUNITIES. THAT'S WHY FATHER CHRIS LIVES IN A COMMUNITY OF MARIAN BROTHERS. WE HAVE FAMILIES WITH TRADITIONALLY, A FATHER, A MOM, AND WE'RE MADE TO BE IN RELATION WITH OTHERS. WE NEED EACH OTHER. AND WE TOUCH ON IT IN THE BOOK. AFTER THE MASS OF A SUICIDE OR GRIEF FROM A LOSS, IT'S VITAL FOR US TO HAVE WHAT I CALL A CIRCLE OF TRUST AROUND US. THOSE ARE PEOPLE THAT YOU CAN GO TO AND BE JUST AS VULNERABLE AS YOU HAVE TO BE AND HONEST AND FRANK AND FORTHRIGHT WITH WHERE YOU ARE OR NOT HAVE TO SUGAR COAT ANYTHING OR MEET ANY CERTAIN EXPECTATIONS. WHEN WE HAVE THAT CERTAIN TRUST IN HUMAN FORM AROUND US, IT ALLOWS US TO HEAL, ALLOWS US JUST TO BE DISPERSING SOME OF THE CRAZY THOUGHTS THAT WE POSSIBLY COULD HAVE AT TIMES TOO. AND ALSO, TO HAVE CONFIDENCE IN ALL OF THE OTHER PEOPLE THERE TO LOVE US. AND THAT WE'RE ABLE TO BE THERE FOR OTHERS AS WELL. OUR CIRCLE OF TRUST IS NOT JUST EARTHLY. WE HAVE A HEAVENLY CIRCLE OF TRUST. WE HAVE TO REMEMBER, THE COMMUNION OF SAINTS IN HEAVEN. >> Guest: AND I WANT TO COMMENT ON THIS, FATHER, I AGREE WITH WHAT THE CALLER SAID. BUT WE CAN'T DISAGREE WITH THE FACT THAT GOD IS A GOD OF MERCY AND LOVE, NOT JUST OF FEAR. WE HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT. AND WHAT SHE SAID WAS A POINT WELL TAKEN. OUR LORD WANTS TO LOVE US AND NOT SCARE US TO DEATH AND WE HAVE TO FACTOR THAT IN. >> Fr. Pacwa: WHERE ARE YOU FROM? >> Voice: BOWLING GREEN, KENTUCKY. >> Fr. Pacwa: ARE YOU WITH THE FATHERS OF MERCY BUT NOT ORDAINED YET? >> Voice: NOT YET. RIGHT. >> Fr. Pacwa: WHAT'S YOUR QUESTION. >> Voice: FOR SOMEBODY THINKING ABOUT TAKING THEIR LIFE AND THEY PERCEIVE THEY HAVE A PSYCHOLOGICAL ISSUE, MAYBE SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED IN THEIR YOUNG LIFE, BEFORE THE AGE OF REASON, WHERE SHOULD THEY GO FOR PSYCHOLOGICAL HELP AND WHAT KIND OF PSYCHOLOGICAL HELP SHOULD THEY LOOK FOR. >> EXCELLENT QUESTION. >> FIRST THING, I HOPE THEY ARE ABLE TO PUT UP THE NUMBER ON THE SCREEN. >> IT'S THERE. >> AND THE NUMBER THERE, THAT'S THE FIRST THING TO CALL THERE. SO MANY GOOD RESOURCES OUT THERE. >> Fr. Pacwa: AND LET ME READ THIS FOR OUTLOUD FOR THOSE LISTENING ON THE RADIO. 1 80 02738255. SO, THAT'S THE NATIONAL SUICIDE HOTLINE. >> Guest: AND THIS IS A HOTLINE TO BE ABLE TO TALK TO ANYBODY 24/7. >> SUICIDE HOT LINE AND IT'S AN ESSENCE OF BEING ABLE TO COMMUNICATE WITH SOMEBODY ANY TIME. AND THE SIGNS OF THIS, THE SIGNS ARE CLEAR FOR SUICIDE. WITHDRAWAL, DEEP DEPRESSION, PEOPLE WHO HAVE LACKED ENGAGEMENT IN ANY ACTIVITIES, BE IT WITH FORMER FRIENDS, FAMILY MEMBERS, AND SUCH. THESE ARE OBVIOUSLY PSYCHOLOGICAL SIGNS. THE PROBLEM IN OUR SOCIETY TODAY HOWEVER, WE LABEL TOO QUICKLY FOR PSYCHOLOGICAL PROBLEM WITH MEDICATION. AND WE'RE HIGHLY OVERMEDICATED. AND I'M NOT MAKING THE ASSUMPTION THAT IF YOU ARE ON MEDICINE THAT YOU NEED TO BE ON, THAT'S NOT THE POINT I'M MAKING. GO BACK TO THE EUCHARIST, A LOT OF BEING ABLE TO SOLVE PSYCHOLOGICAL PROBLEMS IS SPIRITUAL. IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO GIVE OURSELVES PSYCHOLOGICALLY BACK pH ORDER, WE HAVE TO START SOMETIMES SO DEEP WITHIN OUR OWN SPIRIT, WE NEED TO GO THERE TO THE TOOLS THAT ARE LISTED IN THE BOOK. THE BLESSED MOTHER, THE EUCHARIST, AND THE MASS. THAT IS WHERE SPIRITUAL HEALING LEADS TO A LOT OF PSYCHOLOGICAL HEALING. BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN WE SHOULDN'T SEEK IT. PLEASE SEEK MENTAL HEALTH OFFICIALS, HOT LINE, A DOCTOR. SO, THAT'S THE THING. MOST PEOPLE ARE AFRAID TO STEP FORWARD, THAT'S THE TOOL OF THE DEVIL. HELP IS EVERYWHERE ON THIS ISSUE IF YOU CAN JUST REACH OUT. >> Fr. Pacwa: AND I SOMETIME COMPARE PSYCHOLOGIST TO SAY A GOOD HUNTING DOG. THAT DOG GOES UP AND DOWN THAT FIELD AND SNIFFS OUT THE BIRDS. AND THEN IT POINTS. BUT HE WON'T FLUSH THEM OUT UNTIL YOU ARE READY. IT'S YOUR SIGNAL THAT YOU GIVE THAT HE FLUSHES IT OUT. AND WHAT PSYCHOLOGISTS DO, THEY CAN GO VERY WELL UP AND DOWN THE FIELDS OF YOUR MIND. AND THEY FIND OUT WHERE IS THIS PROBLEM COMING FROM. BUT IT'S GOING TO TAKE OUR LORD TO COME IN THERE AND BRING THE BIRD DOWN. >> Guest: VERY MUCH. >> Fr. Pacwa: AND WE HAVE A QUESTION FROM THE STUDIO AUDIENCE RIGHT HERE. WHERE ARE YOU FROM? >> I'M FROM GERMANTOWN, IN THE SUBURB OF MEMPHIS TENNESSEE. NOW, MY QUESTION IS, ASSISTED SUICIDE, IS THIS BECOMING A SERIOUS PART OF THIS PROBLEM? I HEAR BAD THINGS ABOUT NORTHERN EUROPEAN COUNTRIES. COULD YOU TOUCH ON THAT? >> Guest: FATHER, I EXPRESSED TO YOU BEFORE THAT, THE PROBLEM WITH THE POLITICIANS AND THE LEGISLATORS THAT ARE DOING IN THIS COUNTRY TODAY, AND AROUND THE WORLD, THEY ARE WRAPPING EUTHANASIA IN THE FALSE VELVET COVERING OF MERCY THIS. IS A FALSE MERCY! >> IT'S A MERCY TO BE DEFINED BY HELL! YOU ARE SUFFERING SO, SO, LET US JUST KILL YOU. THIS IS A HELLISH VERSION OF MERCY. >> AND DON'T FALL FOR THIS FALSE MERCY LIE. THE FACT IS, GOD IS THE AUTHOR OF LIFE. THE CATECHISM SAYS HE DETERMINES WHEN WE ARE TO LEAVE THIS WORLD. AND SUFFERING, I KNOW THIS IS VERY HARD AND I DO DELICATELY TRY TO AVOID THIS FOR PEOPLE EXPERIENCING SUICIDE IN THEIR FAMILIES OR WHAT NOT. BUT THERE ARE MANY, MANY WAYS THAT SUFFERING CAN ACTUALLY BE REDEMPTIVE. AND AS PAINFUL AS SOME OF OUR SUFFERING IS, GOD IN MANY WAYS, WE DON'T KNOW HOW OR WHY, BUT HE DOES ALLOW THIS. HE DOESN'T DESIRE IT. IN HIS ORDAINED WILL HE DOES NOT WANT SUFFERING BUT PERMISSIVE WILL, HE ALLOWS IT. MANY TIMES MAYBE IT'S FOR THE PURIFICATION OF OUR SOULS OF THE AND YOU KNOW, IF WE HELP SOMEBODY TO BE ASSISTED SUICIDE, YOU KNOW, WE ARE ENDING THEIR LIFE OR THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE PURIFIED. THIS IS A HUGE INJUSTICE. >> I HAD A CALL TODAY, THEY SAY TO THE ELDERLY IN MAINE. YOU HAVE A CHOICE, YOU CAN GET HYDRATION AND FOOD, WATER AND FOOD AND LIVE ON A LITTLE BIT BUT YOU CAN SUFFER. OR YOU CAN LET US TAKE CARE OF YOU. THEY DON'T SAY WHAT THEY ARE GOING TO DO. THEY SAY, YOU ARE GOING TO GET WATER AND FOOD OR JUST LET US KILL YOU. THAT'S WHAT THEY NEED TO SAY UP FRONT. SOMEBODY IS GOING TO SAY, OH, GOOD, YOU ARE GOING TO TAKE CARE OF ME. THEY DON'T REALIZE WHAT THEY MEAN, THEY ARE GOING TO KILL YOU. SO, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO MAKE CARE. AND IN NEW YORK, THEY MENTIONED THAT. AND IN NORTHERN EUROPE, PEOPLE ARE BEING, LIVES ARE BEING TAKEN NOT BECAUSE THEY MAKE A DECISION BUT THE FAMILY MEMBERS SAY, WELL, THIS PERSON DOESN'T HAVE A GOOD QUALITY OF LIFE COMING UP INCLUDING A COUPLE WHO SAID THAT ABOUT THEIR 12-YEAR-OLD SON. AND THE DOCTORS TOOK THE BOY'S LIFE AT 12-YEARS-OLD. THEY DIDN'T ASK THE BOY. YOU KNOW? SO, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT'S VERY SERIOUS AND THAT'S ANOTHER CATEGORY FOR SUICIDE. BUT I GUARANTEE YOU, THE ISSUE IS THAT THE POLITICIANS PROMISE HEALTHCARE AND SOME OF THE CORPORATIONS DO, PRIVATE COMPANIES AS WELL AS POLITICIANS, THEY BOTH DO AND THEY DON'T REALLY HAVE THE MONEY TO BACK THAT UP FOR LONG TERM CARE. SO, THIS IS A WAY TO SAVE MONEY. AND THIS IS IT. THAT'S THE BOTTOMLINE OF WHAT'S GOING ON. >> AND ONE OTHER THING, FATHER CHRIS MENTIONED THIS AND TOUCHED ON THIS POINT. BUT WE STAND THE POSSIBILITY OF LOSING THE VALUE OF SUFFERING. THIS IS NOT ONLY APPLICABLE TO SUICIDE BUT ANY SUFFERING COMING TO ANY OF US IN OUR LIVES, THERE'S VALUE. AND WE'VE LOST THE NOTION OF ANY VALUE OF THE NOTION OF SUFFERING. FATHER CHRIS MENTIONED THAT SUFFERING CAN ACTUALLY MERRITT GRACE AND WE APPLY OUR SUFFERING AS OUR LORD DID HIMSELF FROM THE CROSS, HIS OWN SUFFERING AND PASSION CAME TO US TO HELP HEAL US AND BRING US MERCY AND LOVE AND HEAL OUR WOUNDS. LIKEWISE, IT CAN ALSO LEAD TO UNION. THERE'S A UNITIVE DIMENSION TO SUFFERING. WHERE THE LORD FURTHER UNITES US TO HIMSELF AND WE CAN IDENTIFY WITH HIS PASSION AND OUR HEARTS CAN GAIN A GREATER UNION WITH HIM THROUGH THAT SAME SUFFERING BECAUSE WE UNDERSTAND WHAT HE WENT THROUGH FOR US. >> ESPECIALLY WITH HIM ON THE CROSS. MA'AM, YOU HAVE A QUESTION? WHERE ARE YOU FROM? >> I'M FROM TEXAS. >> Fr. Pacwa: GREAT. GOOD TO HAVE YOU HEAR. WHAT'S YOUR QUESTION? >> LOVE TEXAS. >> Fr. Pacwa: PREACH IT, BROTHER! WHAT'S YOUR QUESTION, MA'AM. >> Voice: CAN YOU EXPLAIN AND IDENTIFY THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN DESPAIR, DEPRESSION, AND DESOLATION. AND ALSO, WHAT THE SUFFERING DOES ABOUT IT AND THE PEOPLE WHO LOVE THEM, WHAT THEY SHOULD DO IT. >> Fr. Pacwa: THANK YOU. >> Guest: I THINK WE'RE SOMEWHAT RESTRICTED BECAUSE NEITHER OF US HAVE PSYCHOLOGICAL BACKGROUND. WE'RE COMING FROM SPIRITUAL AND OUR TRAINING IS IN SPIRITUALITY AND IN PASTORAL DIRECTION. SO, FATHER CHRIS DISTINGUISHED THE DIFFERENT TYPES OF DESPAIR, THE CHURCH UNDERSTANDING AND THE COMMON UNDERSTANDING OF THAT. AND DEPRESSION AS WELL. AND WE ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO SEEK OUT PROPER, THE PROPER PEOPLE THAT ARE ABLE TO GUIDE AND DIRECT THEM FROM A MEDICAL STANDPOINT TO HELP DISTINGUISH THOSE THINGS. THERE IS, HOWEVER, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES A PRIEST OR SPIRITUAL DIRECTOR CAN BE A GREAT ASSET OR GUIDE HERE. BECAUSE WE CAN ALSO GO THROUGH CERTAIN DARK NIGHTS WITHIN OUR SPIRIT. AND THAT'S MORE OF A SPIRITUAL SENSE OF DESOLATION. AND SHE REFERRED TO DESOLATION. THAT TRIGGERED IN MY MIND, CERTAIN DARK NIGHTS THAT GREAT SINS WE CAN'T, BUT WE GO THROUGH THAT WITH THE LORD. AND THAT CAN BE DISCERNED BY QUALIFIED PROFESSIONALS. >> Fr. Pacwa: AND PERHAPS, WITHOUT GETTING INTO PROFESSIONAL TECHNICALITIES, DEFICIENCY THAT DESPAIR IS OFTEN A FUNCTION OF THOUGHT. THESE ARE THOUGHTS THAT WE HAVE. AND IDEAS THAT WE HAVE. WHAT CAN OR CANNOT HAPPEN. AND WHEN OUR THOUGHTS ARE THAT THINGS CANNOT, OUR IDEAS, OUR PHILOSOPHY, NOTHING HAS PURPOSE. AND THEN, THAT LEADS TO DESPAIR. DEPRESSION REFERS, SEEMS TO REFER MORE TO AN EMOTIONAL, AND SOMETIMES PHYSICAL REACTION TO A VARIETY OF THINGS. A VARIETY OF THINGS THAT COULD BRINGING ON STUFFING DOWN THE FEELINGS AND OTHER PROCESSES THAT OCCUR AND THEN IT'S DEPRESSION. THAT HAS MORE EMOTIONAL QUALITY THAN DESPAIR WHICH IS MORE INTELLECTUAL. WHEREAS, DESOLATION, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT OCCURS IN YOUR SPIRITUAL LIFE, IN YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD. IN YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD, THERE'S TIMES WHERE HE BRINGS US THIS GREAT JOY AND ST. IGNATIUS OF LOYOLA DESCRIBES IT AS CONSOLATION, HE CALLS IT TEARS OF JOY AND OTHER MOVEMENTS OF DELIGHT AND JOY IN GOD'S PRESENCE. OTHER TIMES, THOUGH, WHERE IT'S NOT A PROBLEM OF FAITH, IDEAS OR EMOTIONS BUT GOD SEEMS ABSENT. AND THEN, YOU HAVE TO DISCERN WHETHER THAT ABSENCE IS BECAUSE, I'VE SINNED. OR GOD IS WITHDRAWN IN ORDER TO MOVE ME BEYOND WHERE I AM NOW. AND IT'S PART OF THAT SPIRITUAL DISCERNMENT OF WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH DESOLATION. >> AND IF I CAN ADD ONE QUICK THING TO DESOLATION, IT'S SO POWERFUL. MANY PEOPLE THINK I'M BEING PUNISHED I'M IN A STATE OF DESOLATION. I'VE OFFENDED OUR LORD. ACTUALLY, IT'S VERY CLEAR IN THE CATHOLIC SPIRITUALITY AND TRADITION, A PRAYER MADE IN THE MIDST OF DESOLATION HAS MUCH MORE MERIT THAN MANY PRAYERS MADE IN THE MIDST OF CONSOLATION. WHEN WE MAKE A PRAYER IN THE MIDST OF DESOLATION, I DON'T FEEL LIKE YOU, LORD, IN CONSOLATION. BUT THAT'S EASY TO PRAY IN CONSOLATION. BUT LORD, I DON'T FEEL YOU NOW BUT I TRUST IN YOU. >> Fr. Pacwa: AND UNFORTUNATELY, WE HAVE TO TRUST THE CLOCK RIGHT NOW! WE'VE RUN OUT OF TIME. AND YOU CAN ORDER THIS BOOK, ewtnRC.com. IT'S A PRE ORDER AND YOU CAN DO THAT RIGHT NOW. IT'S CALLED, AFTER "AFTER SUICIDE: THERE'S HOPE FOR THEM AND FOR YOU" AND IT'S SET TO BE RELEASED IN SEPTEMBER. ALSO, YOU CAN GO TO THE WEB SITE, thedivinemercy.org/HOPE. AND THEN, YOU CAN CONTACT THE NATIONAL SUICIDE HOTLINE AT 1 80 02738255. SO, FATHER, WOULD YOU JOIN ME IN BLESSING OUR COMMUNITY OF VIEWERS. LORD, BLESS YOU, KEEP YOU, AND CAUSE HIS FACE TO SHINE UPON YOU, IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, SON, AND THE HOLY SPIRIT. AMEN. GOD BLESS YOU AND THANK YOU ALL. >> THANK YOU. [APPLAUSE] [MUSIC]
