And so everyone's like this is a bad idea the moment you self-publish, you know you're just locking the doors and no one is gonna take you seriously and I thought that That's fine because no one is taking me seriously anyway So I wanted to start with a crazy statistic that I read which was a study that was done in 2015, which said that 6.7 percent of Americans have barely read one poem in the last year and it just kind of occurred to me that someone reading one of your poems on the Instagram could mark the advent of their first interaction with a home which is kind of amazing and incredible so congratulations on everything that you've done and you are just about to embark on this huge American tour and How does that? It feels amazing and I'm really grateful and I feel really blessed I Think it's like always a difficult It's difficult to answer that question because for me in my life poetry's always been such a consistent part of it and so Now everybody's like oh my god poetry is like everywhere It says crazy things and I haven't been able to really see that shift because it's always been around me but I think it's so important and I think it's important because poetry allows you to process emotion and it allows you to express it and it it's crazy that such a low percentage of people actually use it as a tool to heal and as a tool to share and So I think it's great that we're at a time now where so many more people are reading and using it. Yeah, I completely agree That was really how I felt reading your book that it was just incredibly healing and also I loved it as a shorthand for Ideas that I found really difficult to express myself, I could refer someone to this poem I could just send them a screenshot of the you thing and I felt so lucky to have that as a tool in my arsenal that I could kind of draw on and Be like this is what it feels like, you know here So that's incredible. You're giving people more words more language credit. Thank you you're a poet in you know the day and age of You post something on your Instagram account and you get instant feedback so you you know most most writers will put a book out into the world and maybe they'll read a review or maybe they'll Meet someone that's read their work has an opinion but you have to come and face to face with people's Responses and feelings to your work on a daily basis in droves and I'm just I'm curious does that affect your writing does that affect? Yeah, you know it does it does two things. The feedback is always reassuring in that Oh, there's people here that want to read this. I'll keep writing it But I'm also very self aware of the fact that I don't want What other people think to change how I write and what I write about and I remember very early on this was probably milk, and honey was first self-published and at the end of 2014 and when it came out all of my friends were like Okay, so we were like taking a look at your Instagram and we realized that the poems about love and heartbreak get the most amount Of love and you know your other pieces about like sexual abuse and all that, okay Maybe you want to like chill on those because there's not that much interaction and I remember for a month I was like, you know, you're right. I should be doing everything that I can to get this book into as many hands as possible But it didn't feel right and what I felt was this magic? there was some sort of magic going away and I realized it was because Writing for me and I explained it as like a romantic relationship with like a partner. It's Is a romantic relationship it's a spiritual connection that I have and it's when I feel closest to myself and You wouldn't let a third party enter your romantic relationship and their opinions shouldn't affect how you feel about the person that you love so Why would I let hundreds and thousands of people? and their opinions affect how I write and what I write about and so I'm very aware of really letting that feedback change So I'm very like okay, I don't read refuse but and I hardly read comments And that's usually how I do it. I think it's about honesty and just sharing that Yeah, that's amazing. That's such a good analogy and I mean, yeah, I relate I think the discipline the self discipline it takes To not allow a third party opinion into your psyche and your creative space is is key It's hard when it's about you. It must be really it's so personal so everybody around me is like it's okay, like, you know, this person isn't criticizing you they're just criticizing the work and I'm like But the poetry is literally me. Yeah Not about me, you know This is poems about my life poems about my experiences and the people that I love so it's very difficult And even though I am so self aware and I do try to like, you know, not let it affect him affect me I'm sure that at a level it has affected, you know The way that I write and that has for sure some part of it has gone into like how I've written the second book Yeah, yeah. Well, that's what's so beautiful And one of the other things I wanted to talk to you about was how incredibly there's a there's a lack of self-consciousness there that's so beautiful is like a such an innocence and unlike a purity to the way that you did that and how old we when you post it the now really famous picture of you With menstrual blood a sheet think I was 22 or 23 that's amazing to me because I remember I mean I I had I had more confidence at that age, but still yeah, but I still I like I wonder I Was just it was so fearless. It was so brave. I'm I had no idea What like I agree with you. I was so much more confident in so much more raw And I just didn't care about anyone in anything. I was like, I'm gonna do what I want how I want to do it and It's good It allowed me to get into some trouble with that photograph and you know I was very naive about the internet because I'd written about periods before there's a poem about them in milk and honey And so I thought that this photograph wouldn't be a big deal. It was a part of a school project And you know the class loved it and it was going well And so I thought it's fine. Like my readers know that this is how I feel about this topic Yeah initially though My readers were like they embrace it the initial response was like, oh my god like we love this This is amazing But when it got out of those circles and when it went into other circles That's when the trouble sort of came and I feel like the experience brought this anxiety of People having so much access I remember thousands and thousands and thousands of comments coming in by the hour and Figuring out a young age how to manage that anything that really took that naive video way and now I'm a lot more Careful, and there's I wouldn't call it self censorship but I think that the more that you grow and the more that you realize that this is how many people have access to this the more that you think am I ready to share this or Not yeah. Yeah. Yeah your caption your response to that the patriarchy is leaking was just it was so brilliant and I I don't think women it occurs to women how much they're being censored Yeah, how much being a woman isn't a sense it exactly I had the worst dinner with a friend the night before last and the words came out of her mouth You don't realize how much the world hates women Until you are breastfeeding and I'm like that is just no one should ever say that those are words That should never come out of a woman's mouth. Um, it made me so sad but I until you'll until it's out there or you you engage in some way and as you say you Stumble on I posted this picture and actually yeah, I realized it was a huge deal. It usually wasn't. Okay exactly Even the patriarchy is leaking. Like I feel like I didn't even write those words because it was in the heat of the moment When those photos were taken down Me realizing like I realized in that moment how much censorship there is of women because I had so many Groups of women popping up around me that were like no. No. No, you don't understand. How wrong this is because You have all of these other accounts that are able to pose like pornography and all these Images and all this media that actually objectify is us and so you need to really do something about it And I remember in the heat and the passion of that moment. I was like the patriarchy is leaking You self-published I did your work was originally rejected which is crazy as so many great writers work is At the very beginning tell me what what does that mean for a writer to be? Self-published. What does that? I think traditionally it's not a very good thing It's kind of saying that hey and that's what my professors were like The first thing I did was go to my professors and say hey, you know I write poetry and I think I want to publish a book because my readers are asking for it So what should I do and I didn't know anyone I was a student I was in so much debt And so I wasn't gonna spend an exorbitant amount of money getting it Sent anywhere and my professor said, you know, try magazines try literary journals and anthologies And everybody faces a lot of rejection before they get there. So it's fine. Let's keep going And so I took her advice I took this book and I started to strip it and I grouped together pieces of like five poems three poems seven poems and I started to send them out and It just wasn't working and I kind of understood why because these anthologies and these journals were about The Canada and the literary landscape were like Canada's where I'm from and so it was a very specific Sort of like themed pieces and house poems about like body hair and sexual abuse really gonna fit into all of that and I self-published The day that I realized that my poetry is for me milk and honey is one large poem It's one continuous poem from the front to the back and I was cheating, you know, like it's like a body of work But I what I was doing was like taking eyelashes and fingertips and limbs and just throwing them and trying to make it work when really I had to take the responsibility of putting the whole thing together and then being like here it is and So everyone was like, this is a bad idea the moment you self-publish, you know you're just locking the doors and no one is gonna take you seriously and I thought that That's fine because no one is taking me seriously. Anyway, I don't even know these people that aren't even gonna like me So who cares and so then I did that and although at the moment Everybody told me it was the worst decision I could have made it's turned out to be the best and I think it's timing is one thing it's I did it at a time when the internet was really changing the face of publishing and so it was Just the perfect circumstance circumstances coming together. Yeah That's amazing. So it's such a great story. It's so inspiring. I know you have 2.8 million followers like something crazy Let's wake up in the morning. Go. Wow Yeah, I don't believe it's real. Yeah, I'm hundred percent. I'm like there is somebody out there buying these followers I'm asleep, you know. Yeah, and it's hard to grasp thee. It's just pixels on the screen mmm, so it comes to life only when It's real life and you're like two people are sitting together. We're hugging and we're actually having a conversation That's what I'm like it takes my breath away. Yeah, yeah How this work has been received in India and here in your home country versus how it's been received because you know What is mad to me is that your work is considered radical for Western culture? So what blows me away is crazy that it's radical Yeah, I don't feel like it's even remotely yeah, everything awake. I'm like, I need to get some edge like yes, let's do this But you know, but I mean it's crazy but it it is why I guess you've already answered the question in a way Did you realize what you were doing was going to be so Disruptive radical transgressive did you? Talk to your parents before you started writing poems like these. I'm putting them out. Did you I mean with a Conversation none Wow, it was well the only really conversations I ever had so I started performing like doing spoken word and going to like poetry slams and open mikes about nine years ago and my parents had no understanding of what that meant and They were very look I have immigrant parents and my mum States at home with the kids. I have three younger siblings and my dad is a truck driver So he's like listen girl. You need to study 28 hours in the day eight days a week I don't know you're gonna make it happen and you're gonna become a doctor or lawyer or something because you will not like work your body to the bone like I had to and So when I would ask them. Hey, you like drop me off to this thing. I'm gonna be performing in my dad's mind He's like, what does that even mean? I know you're not going there and so because I got such a negative response from them early on I didn't tell them That I was sharing my work online Or I didn't even tell them I was gonna self publish and I and I used to have nightmares when I first started to share my work online that There was pieces that are about like sexuality and exploring that and that's not something that we talk about at home So I would have nightmares at somebody like some ex-boyfriend. He's gonna print this stuff out and just hand it over to them and Luckily that never happened but I remember that when the book came out I went home and I was like I have to tell them and so I kind of dropped it off my dad was having breakfast and I was like, here it is and Since that day Everything shifted it was like in that second It was a complete 180 anything he went from being like no, you're not doing this weird poetry mic thing It's a waste of time to being like oh, this is a book. I understand this and how can we help you? Push it forward Yeah, my mom still thinks that the sexual pieces are a little bit too much And she'll be like to my sister. You know, I'm really happy that I can't really understand everything that's A little bit but they support me and I feel very lucky because I know that a lot of other parents Coming from the community that I come from wouldn't push their daughter to do what I do. So I feel very blessed to have them Amazing and what do you think? What do you think gave you the strength the resilience the fearlessness what kind of inspired that in you? I think my dad which is so ironic because he's a guy that was a stop stop stop but I mean he was a he's a refugee and so I hear about the things that he went through back home in India and what he had to do to save his life and I remember being I Came over as an immigrant when I was three and a half But I remember being five years old seven years old and being at Protests like all over downtown Toronto and I had no idea what I was saying, but my dad was like listen This is what's going on there's like things called genocides and there's things called this and we're just gonna go up there and we're gonna like and I was like, What are we doing and just like this little old me, you know? And I think that sort of spirit really really Empowered me. And then when I grew up and I was a part of like local activist groups and youth groups He was like no. No, no, like don't don't do this. He's like this is what got me into trouble why are you doing this and I used to laugh because I'm like I Heard of it by the way. Yeah exactly But I think if you describe it as like this fearlessness you're lessness I don't even see it like that because it's just My norm, like seeing your dad and even my mom like deal with things that you have to deal with It's just a norm in my house. And so I owe it to them. Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. I mean I Guess that's what's so Yeah, his existence his existence made in his life political likewise yeah, that's that's not a That's just the day-to-day exactly. Yeah, I've really appreciated the poems. Where you deconstructed your own misogyny, especially the one about you know, I apologize to any of the women that I said look pretty before I called them intelligent or brave and It really resonated because I've had to do so much. I'm picking my own of my own stuff and you've also said that social media is kind of a can be a really difficult place to maintain a healthy sense of self and self esteem and I'm curious how you navigate those those choppy waters and and keep sort of finding this well of self love and Yeah, love love for yourself Yeah as a woman as you are in a world that doesn't support that that actually that actively Yeah does not support that I think it cycles. I Grew up. I Don't know for some reason like I always felt too much and I thought too much and like very low self-esteem no, I'm existent, you know and like I was Like there was a point where my self-esteem was so bad that I would have to shower with the lights off Or even brush my teeth with like teeth with the lights off because if I like had to see my face in the morning I would disgust myself and To go from that to then being somebody who's working on milk and honey, and my confidence during that time was amazing I was like, I'm great. All right, cool And then I thought that would just stay around forever and I'd always be confident and just feel beautiful and not be down on myself all the time and Then suddenly I don't know how or why but then it dropped all over again. And I was like, what why? and I was like how can I be sharing this message but yet waking up every day and criticizing myself and so like I realized that self-love is like a Consistent thing that you have to work towards and it's always going to happen in cycles. And so it's just like everyday work, you know and You will never have it all figured out and you just have to be kind to yourself and someone said to me once Talk to yourself like you would talk to your best friend and you would never say certain things to your best friend So, why would you say those things to yourself? Yeah. Yeah, that's beautiful Cycles is a great way of Yeah, putting it because it yeah, it's so funny I've had exactly the same experience where I've been feeling great and then one thing would get said and you're like oh I'm I'm I'm still there. I'm like here again, you know, it's it's amazing. So yeah That's beautifully put yeah your your poem about you know How we treat ourselves is how we teach others to love us was also really, you know It was beautiful too I love the purity and the simplicity of your illustrations and your line drawings Where did they did they come second did they when did they arrive they kind of arrived first way before the poetry. That's amazing Yeah, I didn't realize that. I was I've been drawing since age of five and Painting I remember being five years old. We lived in the city called Hamilton in southern Ontario and There was no other kids around me except my baby sister who was still an infant and did not speak and so we had a like a senior couple live upstairs and they were also Punjabi and Sikh and so they would come down and babysit me and I remember that they would bring down like markers and pens and then they would take the jewels off of my mom's like Punjabi suits and we would make Elephants and shapes and that's when my love affair with art got started And so I consistently drawing and painting and that's what I wanted to do Until I found writing and writing just took my breath away it was like louder and it was sexier and it just There was something about it and was something about the way that my the mic picked up my voice that was so electrifying and so I put my art away and I started to Publish online and it wasn't until I realized that I want to do something a little bit different I want to push this poetry a little bit better. I opened up my old high school sketchbooks and I realized that oh I've been doing this forever And I these sketchbooks were filled with line Illustrations with like red marker and thank God I let the red marker thing go because that wouldn't have been pretty And it was all like illustrations of women and loss and trauma and in the top left corner I would always write a sentence or two or even a couple of words. And so I thought okay. Why not? You know, I'm I wasn't gonna start becoming talented at something else Yeah, so I was like re I'm just gonna bring this other thing back And so I started to do the digital illustrations and 50% of me was like this is a good idea and the other fifty was like This is kind of silly. But that was one of the moments where the feedback from the readers really helped me. Keep going Yeah, cuz they were like, oh cool We love this keep making more and I remember the first night that I made them. It was December of 2013 I think I made like 10 to 20 illustrations that night and it's just Been like there ever since yeah amazing amazing Your work is also performance art as well you have cut your kind of your own canvas in a funny way and you know, even the way that you speak and gesture and the way that you dress and I know it's been really important for friends of mine that you You have one traditional clothing on your Instagram this representation. And are you starting to think very carefully? And is it strange to think about how to curate yourself? It is strange, you know? Yeah. Yeah My love affair. I've always had a love affair with fashion. Yeah, and I think it comes from the fact that Growing up. I had no access to the clothes I wanted to wear and my parents like they dressed me for years and the clothes we brought from India and It was I have photos on photos with boy clothes on and some of the boys clothes even said boy on it You know, it was like come on, you know, they didn't even wear a single dress growing up and so I remember There was this one vivid memory Where one of my aunts she was she worked at like a Sears outlet and she felt really bad that I was always dressed up like a dude and so she bought me these red corduroy pants and They were like on sale there were probably like seven bucks I remember she came over and she was like Oh, I brought these for Ruby like let her try them on and my parents were like no no No, like we don't want to you know And then they will she was like no no no like she like shoved me into the bathroom and I remember putting them on and there were bell-bottoms and they had like flowers embroidered at the bottom and I cried and it was the first time that I felt like a girl and that's when I was like, whoa, I love dressing and So it's been important for me since and especially wearing like for my UK tour that just passed in I think it was April I've only worn Indian designers that was so important because I remember I used to be so embarrassed going from the Gurdwara which is the Sikh temple and Trying to go to the grocery store. My mom would be like, oh we're already out Let's just go do groceries and I was like, are you kidding me woman like are you trying to ruin my life? You know, I already look like an alien and now I'm gonna dress like one too and so to go from that to being like oh I'm actually gonna go out of my way to wear Indian clothes in front of 3,000 people. It's just such a flip. Yeah It's so cool And I yeah, I really picked up on like the specificity and that there was like a very careful choice It's so beautiful. And yeah, really? I know really empowering to see the elements So yeah after doing that, you know, yeah conscientious actually. I think it's important like there are growing up I didn't have many people who look like me doing what I do Yeah and I have that platform and so it is political and it's funny because you do like You doing that in the position you are it's like gives it gives permission Yeah, strange way makes it okay And and in the same way with you talking about the topics you're talking about you gave me more permission I'll talk more about if you gave me more permission to Like feminism and all of these things. I remember like when you said that word The weight of the world kind of left my body and it's like, I don't know if you think it's a big deal but it's a big deal for us, you know, and I Remember when I first heard that word I didn't think it was a bad word because anything with the word Feminine and anything about woman is so beautiful and I'm like I want to represent that and I want to know what this is about And I remember Brayton English class the teacher was like how many of you were feminists and I said Me and I looked around and nobody else had their hand up and I was like, oh, never mind And I was like, I never want to go there again, and it's so important. It's so important. Yeah yeah, it's so beautiful - he even say because I've spent a lot of time especially because trying to have men understand that male feminists are a thing and Almost apologetically go. Well, I know there's the word feminine in it but it still includes you and the DA and it's it's beautiful just to hear you say like Even anything with that word and it you know you want to embrace even in even The mention of it or trying to make it inclusive, you know I I I find myself apologizing to him and it's like what am I doing? No, look I have friends who are like. Oh this guy that I know he really likes your work. He doesn't like feminists But he likes you and I'm like not a compliment that I want. But thank you. Yeah and also If he likes the work then there's yes exactly. Don't even have to go. Yeah Yeah, but um, I'm curious what artists inspire you and that you admire and why and yeah There's so many. Yeah, I'm sorry. It's it's a huge question. What's okay Let me give you some I really like Sharon olds. I don't know if you've ever read her poetry I will send you some it's amazing and her poems she writes about what it's like to be a woman and she it makes you feel your womanhood in your entire body so amazing and so beautiful and there is a painter by the name of Amrita Sher-Gil and she's a Punjabi Hungarian woman and She inspires me because she painted photos of Us and just to see those paintings now selling for millions of like this is insane So people like that Malala Inspires me Amal Clooney inspires me every day. I have the she was on Vogue magazine the cover recently. Yep I bought right in front. Yeah all my desk where I write every day because like that represents to me that oh I can be Intelligent I can be beautiful. I can be every single thing. I've read multi-dimensional and It's allowed and yeah, she gives me her being on that cover gives me permission to be everything Yeah, I agree with you. That was really huge. I mean do I choose someone I think about yeah That's very very cool Music do you love music? What what I do? I listen to all that I'm like shuffling through all of the I listen to everything there's not really a specific style that I vibe with only Recently, I mean I also have my like writing music Yeah, so when I am writing I can only listen to instrumental if there's words in it. I have too much. It's too much It's like I need to project myself onto this rather than this thing projecting onto me. Um But to get into the mood and the emotion of writing I listen to like the Punjabi folk music and I listen to the music that was like you know when they say that there's a certain albums that stay with you and it's like there's a certain time period from like the Ages of like 15 to like 21 and though the album's you never forget. Yes. I have to listen to those on repeat So I am listening to like Frank Ocean. Here's like a one Adele album that I have to like play all of the time Beyonce self-titled album and even Lauryn Hill You know, they really bring me back to that place where I was while writing about the really difficult topics So I listen to those two get into the mood and then I put on like my colleagues and my like Eastern music And then eventually I go to like the instrumental and that's when I get to work amazing you're obviously drawing from a particular period of your life and that's why you're writing from but has the experience of Fame and Everything that has come from what? The original work inspired do you think but that's taking you on even more of a Journey and you might draw from that Ah, I think I should I think it's a really weird experience and I don't know. No one really asked me that question? And I never talk about it because I'm like nobody wants to hear me complain about that, but it's a weird unnatural juxtaposition in your body And I haven't figured it out yet, but I know that I need to write about it But it was difficult to go from you know, being nineteen eighteen twenty-one and writing about the topics I wrote about in milk and honey, and then suddenly this beautiful Thing that the universe gave me it took me to a place of stability. Yeah and safety and then I was like I should have been happy but instead I was very confused because I stability and safety were not the norm that I grew up in and they were not ever around and Suddenly I had to write from a place of that and I couldn't write and I had to teach myself to write from that place and I still haven't fully figured it out yet, but it's like years in the making you know for Like two decades. I was writing from a place of fear And now to be writing from a place of power. I'm still learning how to figure that out So I wanna I want to make sure that I ask you some questions from my book club readers who loves your book and They're so sweet. Yeah, they are just so delightful with the photos and the messages They've been sending me. So thank you to all of them Yeah You'll see there are some beautiful questions and people really really loved reading of the book. So this is from Viviana Repeat I wanted to say how beautiful your writing is. I wanted to ask where do you enjoy writing is something Is there something you prefer to do in private in a coffee shop in a park? Do you write by hand, or do you write you know? So I've tried all of those things. Yeah writing in a park is too messy. I get dirt all over my clothes It's just not a good luck writing in a coffee shop is too loud I have yet to find a very quiet coffee shop and like to write in my bed or On the couch and I think it's because it feels casual Yes, you know verses like this big oak desk and me trying to be like alright I'm a writer and I'm gonna write something brilliant today So it's usually in one of those two places where it's quiet really and a space. That's empty not cluttered And I write both by hand and on the computer. So every day I have the practice of writing by hand It's a lot of free writing. There's no intention behind. You know what this is gonna look like but it's trying to keep that writing muscle active because writing is a muscle and you have to continue to work it out if you want it to stay strong and there was a time when I stopped writing for a year and I lost it all But then yeah, and then I take the pieces that I like from that for my journals I transfer those to my laptop and that's when I begin editing But then what happens is that? There are pieces you wake up one morning and you already feel it in your body and it's already finished and it's almost like playing like a song in your head and there's no time for no notebooks or pencils and you run to your laptop and you're like Just got to get it out Yeah so I think you just have to like you have to go with what works for you and I've read so much on like well other writers and authors do and what advice works for them But you have to you have to do what's right for you. And what feels right? Yeah lastly What advice would you give to a writer to who is afraid of writing and is holding back? I think You'd I get it I Feel that every day and I've published two books and every day. I'm afraid and I'm like This is too much or I'm not good enough. I say to the people around me and my team I'm like, I think that's it. I think it's done now everybody pack your bags. Let's go home and So I can really relate to that and the reason I say that is because I think it's so important for creative people to know That they're not alone Creativity and being an artist is kind of an isolating experience. And so to know you're not alone helps and you Have to let the fear go and you have to write Not for the product But just for the simple act of writing and you just got it, write, write, write, write and I always say hey I'm gonna go away for three months. I'm just gonna write really bad things. Yeah gonna be like that Yeah, that's fine and I have to get it out of the way before I can get to the good stuff and So right the bad stuff It just makes you like closer to the good stuff and hone in on your craft and I think practice really makes perfect It's really about letting go of an outcome Yeah and I think fear is so debilitating for creative people because it allows It's like tying your hands up behind your back and nothing gets done in that way. So you just got to let it go Yeah, beautiful question from OSS member, India How much editing does a poem typically go through before you're comfortable sharing it? Are they pretty raw or do you spend time after the first inspiration tweaking them? Mmm, I think it depends on the piece Like I said that there's such feeling you get in your belly and it's like this kick or it turns a little bit It's like butterflies and when you get that, you know that the poem is done Sometimes I can write like a four-minute poem in two hours and it requires very little editing but then there are some pieces like women of color is 10 words I Spent probably a year Fixing it. It used to be a love poem Wow, and it became Women of color and so you just can't stop until your gut says it's done. Yeah. Yeah, no rights I read milk and honey last summer the month of my sexual assault and As a trans boy who at the time was 15 years old felt so alone Milk, and honey, really inspired me to seek help. Thank you so much for being the light I needed to get help our be My question for you is what was the hardest thing about writing the book? What was going through your mind while you were writing it much. Love the hardest thing about writing the book Milk, and honey wasn't hard to write because I wasn't writing milk and honey. I was just writing because I loved it so much and it's this thing that took over my body and it was kind of like almost like I was addicted to Writing at that time. I would steal away any moment. I was in University My friends are out partying and I was like, all right. Hold on just one more line You know And it was just this love affair that I had and it wasn't till really the collection was done that My readers asked me for a book I never ever Imagined I was I'm a huge book lover growing up and I've read hundreds of books, but never thought it could be me But when they said hey, where can I purchase your book? that's when I was like, okay, I guess I can do something with this and Everything was already done. So it was very easy. They like put it all together, but the pressure I felt actually during the second book and I think cuz there's like this intention of I'm gonna like go on this journey and write a book and so I think You just have to take it easy and take it one day at a time and it doesn't have to become this whole giant Confusing thing and I just take it one page at a time. Yeah. Yeah One from Devon Reading about the tensions between you and your father Was heartbreaking for me because I always felt very close to my own dad I don't like imagining it any other way for us My question is did this book impact your current relationship with your father in any way it definitely did We are my daddy's he's gonna watch this incomplete Tell me these things He is very sensitive and he's very emotional But you could never see that Because he has this exterior that is so rough and it's so tough, and he doesn't know how to communicate Emotionally verbally anyway and so he was always this scary figure in my life But the books really brought us together because it's Something that we can like connect through and I think it allowed him to see that. I'm not a little girl You know And he doesn't he just he can relax a little bit and he sees that I'm this young woman now who has her? Life figured out not entirely, of course But like it's on the road to figuring things out and I can make good decisions and it's okay and even to like I brought him on the India tour with me and It's the most time we've ever spent together and it's most talking we've ever done in our life And so was really really emotional there are many days where I was crying on planes and in hotel rooms because I'm like I can't believe this is happening and I was able to see my father as a man And not my father for the first time and it was bittersweet because it was like amazing that that was happening But I was like, wow it took 25 years To get here. That's a long time and so it's definitely helped a lot and you know We talk about art and poetry all of the time now, so it's nice Colette has a question. What has been the most impactful? Experience for you since milk, and honey was published I think just meeting people who read the work and can I put it so much because People always asked. Oh my god. How does it feel like you're going all these places and doing all these things? you must like wake up just being overjoyed every time day and I'm like Not really. I mean, I'm it's good. It's amazing. It's normal, but I'm not like This is crazy because it's just maybe because I'm on this train It's going super fast and then of it feels real that's the problem I feel like it's all happening to like my twin sister and she just like never shows up So I have to show up for her and do the talking for her But then I meet people and they're like, I love your work and this is what it did for me And those are the moments where I like all the emotions come out and I'm like, oh my god This is important and I have to keep going. Yeah Unicorn wants to know did you get any backlash or hate from your community because of writing about these issues? And if so, how do you deal with it? I myself an aspiring novelist and poet and the only thing holding me back from publishing is my fear from my conservative community Yeah, I get that. I think that I was so I remember a month before milk, and honey was self-published I couldn't sleep anymore. It was a consistent anxiety of like what is gonna happen to me? And what are people gonna think? Uh, There's no answer that's gonna be good enough but you just have to ignore it because What you're doing is so much stronger than that small group of people who are saying that you're too loud It's unattractive and it's not sex see and you kind of you know, you just have to ignore I remember I used to perform about a lot of my early work was about abuse and violence that's inflicted on women's bodies and I was just little like 17 year old in every event that I went to it's All I talked about and people would roll their eyes at me and they'd be like, oh god she makes everyone so uncomfortable and I felt so unattractive and but I was like no like I cannot I have to tell the story if you silence me like you've silenced so many other people that who's going to tell it and so you Just have to tell it because there's so much empty space I needs to be filled with stories like these that's beautiful the way you talk about how By giving yourself permission you give other people permission to show up with the vulnerability with whatever their it is that they're carrying whatever her story is and that's That you feel that sense of responsibility Not just to yourself, but other people and surround the women. Yeah amazing. I Hear that you are working on short stories screenplays and songs Do you compose music do you play an instrument? Can you share anything that you're working on right now? I'm working on a play. I Wouldn't even say songs Though because I think I'm so terrible at it and no one should ever have to hear me sing. That was just beautiful crime I used to sing though. Like I sang And I did I played the harmonium for like eight years sure. You say no I have an instinct. No sing beautifully people keep saying that I'm like Because there's such a musicality to the way that you speak. So I feel what they say. It would be hard So now I'm working on a something Okay, but I don't call them songs because it is they said the same thing. They're like But it's the way that you sort of move and how the words sort of like leave your mouth and the rhythm of it that this would be so amazing if It was something like audio. So I'm working on something Related to that. I'm more excited about the play because it's coming together really quickly. It's I Perform. I've performed so many shows but I've never seen my work because I'm the one putting it on right but I was in New York for about a week in New York ailments like this little workshop that I did for a week and To put these poems in the mouths of other people and then being the audience was so electrifying And so that's what I'm working on. I've written like chapters of what might be a collection of Short stories or maybe fiction or maybe even a memoir but it's a different part of your head that you have to use When you're writing like longer prose versus the poetry And so I think I have like a one more collection of poetry in me before I move into Longer prose. Yeah And I one more question. I think I meant to ask earlier. Actually. I'm curious. Do you ever have men read? milk, and honey, and And it's interesting because it's actually a man that gave me milk and honey to her because he loved it so much But I'm curious whether that whether it does Receive a reception occasionally where they've it makes them feel Defensive like having read it. Is that something that you've experienced will come across I haven't come across it Firsthand mmm, but I know it's there mmm because I've liked the negative criticism a lot of it does come from guys And so no one has come up to me and said I read it and it sucked it. I hate you Yeah, but I mean I expected that mmm And so I would get so much anxiety when I had to do book signings and a man would walk up to me I was like My body would say and I'm like here I go. Okay I have to like defend this thing and then suddenly they would say lovely things and I was so confused by I think it's I think it's good. I'm like lucky that a lot of men have actually anything men like people were writing articles like very early on saying that this is a book that every woman needs to read and like That turns me nuts I know it's like stored under like women's Fictional women's poetry or whatever and like no it's like preaching to the choir the only women read it. Yes Please don't file it under that. Yeah, that's not what it is. Exactly and I'm like if we're not changing minds and in this Conversation For men then what's the point? And so what was amazing though was like a lot of men in India came out ask compared to North America like a majority of the audience was guys and I was like This is so cool And I had my own like very messed up ideas of what that audience was gonna look like right guys me entirely Yeah So there is like they're embracing it and a lot of older gentlemen who are like in their 40s and 50s. Yeah Amazing So on behalf of OSS thank you so much Ruby. This has been amazing. And before I let you go I'm really curious if you could pick a book for Yourself? What would you recommend? Okay, this is really hard to pick. Um, let's see. Ah I would say I Love love love ODEs by Sharon olds and if you haven't read are you happy? I don't say it's amazing It's just a series of poems that are ODEs to different things that women have to deal with And then there's the color purple by Alice Walker which I feel like I read every I chose that is like my second or third But for the club, oh, I already love that. Okay. Yes great choice so good. Yeah Yeah, there we have that is one of our picks. I'm I'm glad we're on track Yeah, um, but I would say we'll definitely I'm fine. Thank you. Thank you for having me. No, it's been great. I'm so happy I got to meet you. Me too
