Dottie Baynham, Cate Parker and Sam Settle - Enneagram Type 9 - The Mediator - Iain McNay

hello and welcome again to conscience TV I'm in McNay and today we have another program in our series about the Enneagram and this time we're talking with some type nines and we have three type nines in the studio we have dotty hi Dottie hi and Sam and Kate and we're going to start with you Dottie if you could just tell us a little bit about the any grab for people that don't know much about who are watching this program what is the any grand and as I understand it and I think the Enneagram is one of these things that is that is out there and open for anyone really to interpret in whatever way they choose and but so as I understand it and say when when we're born and maybe before we're born when we're still in the womb after we're born we start interacting with our environment and in that interaction with our environment we start building up patterns of behavior building up programs and over time these programs will develop into what we think we are or who we think we are so it's our personality is mainly developed through our interaction with the environment but the Enneagram does it offers a model which has nine basic personality types so everybody has to be one of these nine pretty much everyone is basically one of these nine but the other thing about the Enneagram is that the the symbol of the Enneagram is a circle and so there can be movement within that circle so although you are basically one type there is movement within the circle you are not just defined by a list of this is who you are there is movement within that so in the other types we'd also find part of ourselves it's just that's with you guys like Titan now you're mainly type 9 mainly type um and I think when we talk a bit about more about the 9 looking at what the driver is behind the 9 behavior why the 9 behavior is as it is so that to me is the fundamentalist finding what the driver is what what it is that makes you be the nine but the driving that but that personality okay so through studying the the Enneagram hopefully you find your type some people it's really easy and certainly for me as soon as I read the nine I knew that was me and some people have no idea and it takes them time to actually they really need to visit all the different types to find out which one actually fits most comfortably for them and one of the common things that that you feel when you first find your type in the Enneagram is some people say I thought everybody felt like me and they find out that they don't or completely the opposite that they realize that some people feel like me but actually some people feel people feel completely different to me and that understanding of not just yourself but getting an understanding about other people as well is really helpful in your life and but I find the Enneagram does not define you I think some people see it as something that can actually give you a definition you are a nine I don't think the any of RAAM defines you you find how much you have defined yourself and the same time you find how much you have defined other people and that gives you more compassion and understanding both for yourself and actually for others too so it can help in your relationships with other people you can say yeah very much so yes and so initially its they all this is all about me and it's fascinating but then you learn about how other people are different and you understand what's driving them and and yeah so that needs to much improve relationships because if you understand someone else better then you can some extent put yourself in their shoes urgently and you realize why they are the way they are and the way they are with you yes yes which I see the Enneagram as you can take it at whatever level you want it can be a development self-awareness tool but for me it's it's more about or a bag on through it it's more about the spiritual aspect and actually the potential for transformation okay so we'll come on to that later the potential for the expansion the potential yeah so how did you first hear about the any grand Sam I was living in Thailand in a Buddhist monastery actually as a monk and we were introduced to it there as a tool for learning more about ourselves and we used it as a community or some of us were more into it than others just to look at our interactions with each other and why how we could improve our interactions and very very very helpful and and complimentary with the meditation and the study of the Buddhist teachings as well so yes and I've used it studied it just fairly I don't want to say intensely but studied quite a bit and use it a bit there and then eventually came to England and was to the course with Judith priest and Tim Luca and in my marriage it's been very useful my relationship with my wife who's a type for just being able to unpick why things might be going wrong and see how I'm contributing to the dysfunction or the odd dynamic that's yeah very um very very useful tool so when you're in the Buddhist monastery were you interacting with the other monks there and discussing your types yes both formally sometimes in workshops but also just as as we were interested in it we would we would use it a bit to look at look it yeah the dynamics so the image I have of Buddhist monks is their kitten cells very much themselves and they may take a lot and don't speak much but obviously this is quite a modern monastery in one way was it yeah I mean the man who introduced it the monk who introduced it to us um Santa Clara was now in America and not a monk anymore either saw it as a tool for for spiritual development and I remember him saying once actually this may be as useful as meditation rather than that and as useful as the Buddhist teachings but definitely as a complementary thing very helpful because when you're meditating for long periods a day then you can get very lost can't you encourage your inner world and this must give you more of perspective yeah and as solitary and relatively quiet as we were we still came together to do a bit of work and around mealtimes and projects on the outside so it's very useful okay I know you've been working with the Enneagram for a long time now as part of the school you're in I think almost twenty years so how do you find you've changed during that time using the information you learned about the Enneagram well energies I'm not going to answer your question directly first because listening to what you are Sam I realize the relief of reading about the Enneagram and feeling that somebody really understood what it felt like inside and it was actually I think facets of unity written by Amador edge el mas that really how he understood the sense of deficiency and lack in a way was just such a huge relief and recognizing that which are still a lot of the traits I have like to go towards the other more than think of myself because that's a way of not feeling the emptiness and being fascinated by other people and that's how I felt was by relating to other people so what do you mean by not filling the emptiness both well I think what I'm learning and it's still in process is that going towards others is my nature in a way but not negating myself at the same time and what is difficult for me is to stay with myself when I'm with another and to really feel into myself that's what I feel so you know you lose your you lose your own kind of agenda so much but your own desire or what you would like to do when you're with somebody else you get pulled into there I mean it's I just lose that and it's I was remember the first time that I really noticed how much I did this was driving it this was years ago and driving with somebody who I was a bit frightened of actually she was an 8 and it was when we were running a center and I was driving her long and as usual asking her a massive questions which was very interesting and she suddenly said and what about you and I couldn't get out of the car and escaped this question and it was terrifying so it's just the focus on myself is frightening in a way and I'm getting much better at staying I think it's frightening because it's unfamiliar and you don't know how to deal with it I suppose for a long time um I um it was so difficult to feel myself and the only way I could feel filled was by sort of going out towards the other and I think even before I'd done any spiritual work I always remember my biggest fear was to be in solitary confinement and I thought what am I going to do it I've just got me and so I think what what's helping more more is the work I've done with her meat I mean in the in the Damned approach and also more recently I'm doing more meditation with Dan Brown pointing the way and because before in meditation I would just sit and come to most wonderful spacious place and very smooth very calming and having to be more alert is really helping me okay so take it out just to you Sam that issue that like you in a monastery where you very much encourage to stay with your process were you able to develop what was right for Sam when you were given that space possibly a bit I think I think I started to wake up to the fact that it was more comfortable for me to to sort of stay in that spaciousness as you called it I remember once or a period of realizing that there's this great feeling of just inner peacefulness a sort of inner smile and for a long time I'd mistook that as what it's all about and and actually four nines it's for me and I think for most lines it's not about that it's about knowing what I actually want knowing my agenda as you put it when I'm with other people and and being able to act on that and not not feeling like I just have to put put it all aside and go with what the other person wants really knowing in the first place and then acting on it acting on what are you so so Dottie what are the other sort of factors people might want to look for if they think they might be number nine or watching type motivate watching this program what their one of the clues if I can describe what where I think the driver of the nine is hmm and and it's looking at the essence of the being of the nine in a sense again going back to birth or maybe before birth and that the belief that we are all loved unconditionally there's this sense of of everyone being loved and been in a state of unity sort of almost like a non-duality so that's that's the perfect essence that we move further and further away from us as we develop our personality and I move further away because that's the way the rest of the world is that right yeah because that's what we learn and that's how our life is the you know you start off being educated being domesticated by your parents you pick up all the societal beliefs and that's that's who you think you are but underneath it this this desire for the sense of being loved and in unity is still there okay so what the nine then does is they then try and recreate what that feels like that sense of love and unity and and kindness and they try and recreate that in the way they live their lives so they will do anything to avoid conflict they make themselves invisible because that gives everybody else space and this is how they are trying to create that love but it all goes a bit wonky because the nine goes into this state of being asleep to themselves it's described as not knowing what I think not knowing what I want not knowing what I feel but finding it's so easy to tune into someone else Nine's merged with other people you know what other people are thinking you know what they need before they do their personal thing so it so you just you find you are then to some extent almost living vicariously because because you're you're living through somebody else so recognizing that that isn't what you're not actually returning to that wonderful initial state you're making a sort of false copy of it and it and it's recognizing that and then going okay this is this is who I really am yes and and starting to wake up to who you are to recognize and when you do fall asleep and personally at times when I first discovered the only way I realized it if I'd got something challenging to do I would actually start feeling really really tired and I could almost fall asleep and I think I am so tired I have to go and lie down and to realize I'm not really tired I'm just avoiding something here because it's going to upset this sort of equilibrium that I've created for myself so it must be quite a shock when you realize that you created this kind of false image in a way absolutely but it is it's a shock but it I think as Kate was saying and probably Sam as well it's a revelation that that actually somebody else feels like this it's not just me I'm not I'm not lazy I'm not eating all these negative labels we put on ourselves it's not about being lazy it's about this lack of self-awareness um and and to actually start real I I can do something about it I don't have to fall asleep when I used when I first started meditating I would let's go to sleep yeah yes and I think whether that's particularly for nines I think it can be for anyone but the nine yes wonderful space you can just have it's the duvet thing isn't it that's real 9:00 under the duvet and what you were saying about that be not just not knowing what you feel I remember when I was little people asking my family asking me but what are you thinking Sam what are you feeling and just not having any you know being really frustrated because I couldn't answer that questions I don't know and my wife is a four you know she's extremely in touch with her feelings and just can't get that you know how come you can't say what you're feeling so yeah that's that's very typical I think another thing that's that's fairly typical is that we did well I speak for myself you all have probably enlightened or highly evolved but nines can spend a lot of energy dissipating anger and just spending a lot of energy not appearing anger but it's a very powerful force you feel anger but you don't really put it out there so people can recognize it that what you say but I think especially people who know you well do sense it coming off of you but you I am not totally back holding back yeah and there was one it's a dream I had once we have a very dark character who I knew in the dream only came out at night and it wasn't evil but he was really strong and powerful I went to to meet him he was scary and I I woke up from that dream and was writing my dreams down at this point and wrote I must meet this character and it was this I'm shadowy form isn't it this aspect of yourself you don't want to do it knowledge and and later I I did meet him in a way in in something that happened of about a week later in my life and I was able to express for the first time feeling very pinched between two two people who are very close to and and I'd been pinched for years I couldn't paid one person would run the other person down and with me and then the other person would do the same with the other and I felt very squeezed in the middle and I was tired of just understanding them and not expressing how it how it actually felt and I was able to express that for the first time in 15 years was fantastic and it really shifted something in me and also shifted something in the whole so when you say it was fantastic what was the feeling then I don't have to hide anymore I don't have to keep my feeling or my understanding of a situation to myself what I what I say matters what I feel matters and I can express that and it's valid and actually it's essential in the functioning of my relationship with those other people I agree now that's happening but I remember the first few time for me anger my partner in particularly used to say you're angry and I used to say I'm not angry and then five minutes later I my jolly well happened but what happened for me the first few times I got angry it was terrifying I mean I didn't feel that sense of you know it was more like I totally destroyed them but the guilt afterwards and now and what I realized was I only got angry when I was pushed that you know I could accommodate accommodate accommodate and then suddenly it was all too much and so it came out in a very I couldn't believe it was me and now I'm beginning to be able to do what what you've done but I don't think anger for me is still it's not easy for me hate it yeah yeah is it this anger and there's losing your temper yes isn't that you know actually being able to say I'm you're making me really and exactly is very different to seeing more yes difficulty out is that I find that the nines because we're so accommodate yeah that people think that's the way we are and we can they can go on doing it so if they push you and push you and push you and certainly take advantage of take advantage of your good nature that's when you can go into this passive-aggressive and the aggressive starts to come out um and also I don't know if you guys are the same but it can be really really stubborn people think you're so easygoing and then all of a sudden you're just dicky hill's in they won't be able to move you going slow and just not pretending yes yeah so I wrote down a few kind of from a couple of books a few clues for people that might still not be clear where there might be a time line or not so I just read them all through and you might want to sort of runs comment on something often feel in union with nature and people yes yeah making choices can be very difficult we kind of covered that hard to know what they want when they're with other people and we've covered that really this is a quote others see me as peaceful but inside I often feel anxious that's something you yeah okay when I'm when there's unpleasantness around me I just try to think about something else that's something you guys connect with oh yeah I think we're quite into a diversionary tactics over doing something else or thinking something else if we're if we're challenged if in a challenging situation yeah yeah zone out yeah losing yourself in detail of work or small easy tasks instead of addressing the bigger stuff that might in your mind lead to conflict or lead to difference of opinions and then you get stubborn when you feel controlled yes yeah I tend to put things off to the last minute but usually get them done in the end yes yes Craster so you're you're ticking the boxes yeah yeah I don't know if there's anything on that list about Oviatt for me I've noticed this paradox of wanting to avoid conflict but in the attempt to avoid it actually creating it if they can think of an example wealth just if there's if there's a difference of opinion if I feel like in a situation if I'm if I have a difference of opinion rather than just expressing that I'll agree with the other person go along with them decide to do something and then down the road a few days or weeks I can't sustain that position of theirs that I've taken up and so in the attempt to avoid conflict I've actually created it and it's um it's a pain you've actually taken that into yourself in order to keep the peace but the conflict has remained within you that's that's where you say you've actually generated conflict it's actually it's in you they they're quite happy because you're agreeing with them yeah why didn't you why did you say that yeah but the nines are also known as the peacemakers as well so you obviously have this quality of being able to get together parties that are not getting on and to help be the catalyst for peace yeah yeah Lukas big postman it's very easy to tune into other people and we can pick up the vibe if you like about what's going on and and therefore not in a manipulative way but actually steer things to a more peaceful space because we can pick them up okay so your release you're really feeling how they feel you can understand their mindset yes and then somewhere also I presume appears a kind of clues of how you can bring them together more common interests yes well you're looking for a common ground if you're crystal standing opposite you you actually look for the common ground that they can that everyone can stand in yes it's a great quality actually yeah well these anybody said to a lot of negative things about nine it's having way but there are lots of positive yeah 9 well I know I know with Sam you actually work and how much you want to talk about it now but you do you work for an organization called the prison Phoenix trust fact you run the organization the UK which helps to teach meditation and yoga in prisons to prisoners so you must find quite a lot of conflict situations come up and I presume you find your you're too type 9 peacemaker ability helps in those situations I think in any any situation where you're leading or managing people yeah it's a great it's a great skill to have but the the the challenge is the challenge is to not only try to go with that easy skill of tuning into what other people think but you know knowing what you think and putting that into the equation if you don't have that then it's it's difficult so swimming around without an anchor somehow about that ID yes find your own anchor exactly and know what know how you feel and what your take is is that does that take an effort on your part Sam do you actually think okay what is my stand here it does so it's a conscious thing it's not an automatic thing you have to do okay where does take effort and I'm one thing that helps me is to think at the beginning of each day or maybe the beginning of each week what is important to me because I know I'll be hit with all kinds of other pulls from other people and situations arising and I can very easily get drawn off what is actually important to me so yes it takes effort it's not something that where but I can easily remember what's important yeah something else that I wrote down from my notes was the type nines are off and non-judgmental and accepting is that something you'll feel you have that is yes it's all part of the same thing yeah trying to have this environment where is everything is nice and there's no conflict and then yes but it is genuinely non-judgmental that's really quite a quality I think it is I think it's genuine gentle I think partly because you understand why the other person's coming yes yeah you're not judging them because you know there's something that's driving them yes as long as what Sam has just said is also in place yes it really is truly so it's not a a bypassing to say that you don't have to get anything yes yeah and also good listeners too is that right you're good listeners so they say people tend to tell a fella do you enjoy listening to people it's easy it's a way of it's a way of making the situation field harmonious making any kind of environment feel mmm yeah I'm not sure about the judgmental bit I think that I there maybe it's because I have a one wing that I I've come across as judgmental sometimes I don't know do you of experience do you have that or do you genuinely feel not judgmental I distrust my non-judgmental miss sometimes you know I feel that I've sacrificed truth for harmony if I really really look at it sometimes I and I'm really trying to be absolutely more and that means feeling myself more to really know can you give a practical example about how if you were more truthful to yourself the situation may appear less harmonious or you might well the thing that comes up is a long time ago so that's not a very but the first thing that came up I lived running a small gross Center with two other people and they were together and I was a sort of and sometimes it got pretty difficult now for me my terror was the whole thing was to keep things harmonious even if I could feel I could see what was going wrong it was more important not to rock the boat my eight partner would come in and for him the whole thing was to see the truth and to see what was really happening and I used to get terrified of that that that all my whole existence was sort of disappear if if things were rocked and now I really see the moments but I have to stand and say this is what I feel and I can do that more but it's still frightening because that tendency to want harmony in that and that sort of smoothing things over particularly when I get very anxious to sort of feel smooth and silky and so let's talk more dotty about the potential for the type 9 you've talked about in your introduction about the other there are other ways in which the type 9 can move forward from them from the from the neurotic let's say neurotic patterns we all learn with were quite young yeah this whole set of programs yes yeah and I think the key thing when you're and using the Enneagram as a tool is awareness if you're aware of what your behavior is then you can actually start to do something about it keep your very basic when you say awareness for someone that's watching doesn't know what awareness said what does awareness mean to you and it's it's like the story I was telling about when I have a challenge and I will feel sleepy yes if if I'm not aware that this is just a behavior pattern kicking in this is an avoidance if you like so having the awareness that this is a pattern of mine that I that I feel sleepy when I'm challenged think the means that I can go uh okay I've clocked that I'm aware of it okay so that's a pattern of behavior it's not in a sense it's when the behaviors driving you and you recognize that the baby is driving you so something like the falling asleep is a classic one so I think the first thing is is awareness and our the waste fortune we've got to practice that really haven't you have unless it could be is like Sam saying when I said do you have to consciously think okay today this is what I'm it's something it doesn't come automatically and but also in terms of potential and I've lost my train of thought now I can say it's very nine ish I do I think that they have at a huge capacity we have a huge capacity to to act and act decisively and to carry other people along with us it and in that that capacity to see where they are and to see what they're feeling as you move forward on a project or decision or it is is great and is and is um yeah it's perfectly possible to act into and to come to bring your position forward I think looking looking at the physicality I mean um I think other any gang programs of just explained how the anagram types fall into rule by the head the heart or the gut okay the nine is ruled by the gut and down here and that refers to how disconnected you are from your body or how connected you are in your body and for nine is the tendency is to be disconnected from the body so what's important for nine is to get into their bodies to actually physically be present and and that may be through grounding exercises it may be through doing physical exercise so actually going running or doing yoga tai chi chi-gong all those sort of things are really good to actually give the nine the sense of being physically present it's taking them out of thing that's hearing that present and that's being down in the gut which is in in yoga you call it the Hara one word yes Eric and I can't remember teas in G Kong but there's a similar word for it it's this sense of being grounded being very physically present yeah and and I think that's really important in terms of developing the potential for the nine and I'm sure there are lots of other modalities that help but fundamentally the Enneagram really it's like it gives you an understanding of where you are it's I remember I was driving through London which is something very unfamiliar to me and I got completely lost so I ran up a friend because I was going into that so they rang up a friend and I said can you help me I'm lost and he said where are you I said I'm lost I don't know where but what the Enneagram can be it's a bit like having your sat-nav because what the Enneagram says is this is this is where you are it gives you an understanding okay you are okay um and it can guide you from where you are to where you want to where you want to be yeah and but there will be different ways of getting there yes but the only ground can be part of that process there may be other modalities that you use in order to to achieve that but at least the Enneagram is there to show you where you are and how you can where you can move forward you can move out of this space of being inertia like that the oyster at the bottom of the sea you know it sits there and the water washes around it but it's a nice thing I feel about the the nine is that you're the oyster but if there is that stimulation in there so it's the grain of sand that's stimulation then the oyster will create a pearl because the two nines are capable of achieving amazing things we're not all asleep but you have to wake up in order to do it and that's what the any family the nice thing about and I just to say that I don't I don't think it's a steady linear progression of words I mean over the last just the last couple of months they're just a lot of up and down and but the nice thing about can about fruits for me about connecting with the sense of a sense of self or a sense of identity is that at the same time that means that my relationship where people are richer they're more once they profound but they're just they're richer they're more alive in life in general is more alive because of that tuning in to oneself and how practically have you done that how's the grounding work for you and the practical basis how do I do it yes it's communication with people who know me well to think together meditation very very useful very useful and in raising or bringing awareness to what is to what the internal processes or internal dialogue is and just not shying away from conflict not not not backing away and going into the usual mode of modes of trying to avoid it or get out of it technically to face face difficult it takes a degree of courage doesn't it would you say that was issue for you capable courage you have to definitely and the other thing I was just thinking for me is particularly when I get sort of overwhelmed my tendency is to not do the most important thing I'll procrastinate I'll do everything else and just to really realize that and to sit down and think what is the most important thing and not to run away and do all the other things but to just focus on what is really important and to face that I think that's and I think for me it is so much about awareness and so much about it really facing conflicting daring to say things that I didn't use to dare to say and the liveness that comes with that must be quite enjoyable as well it's huge but it's at that moment almost like going back into my patterns or actually really staying there I mean focusing to me is a word that I really really need ahead that's expression where where the attention goes the energy follows yes via if your attention is out here that's why your Energy's going so it's actually it's yes because it used to be still can be when I'm a sort of panicky that people could follow what I've done because I've done this and then suddenly thought of something else so lift that not finished and then done the next thing it's sort of like and to actually really finish something in some of my homework I was reading up and it showed his books at the end I cannot claim to read them all but I was dipping in and out last couple of days on the tight lines in his books and the word real action came up quite a bit so I don't know wish when I talk about what real action but through dottie I first need to be fired up nervously when I first came across it you when you first start learning the any ground this is what you're meant to be doing is real action well what is it to actually understand what real action is and it was actually a Lamaze I think as a quote from from a Lamaze explaining what real action is and real action is it's sort of connected to the being in your body to actually grounding yourself in the body real action is when you know what to do without actually having to go to a process of thinking and I'm not over yet because because I think as you're as you're studying through the nine and as Sam was saying I I have to I have to think at the beginning of the day this is what I'm going to do it's still a thought process we haven't got to the stage of the knowing which is the right action that we're working towards although having been working with it a number of years I'm now getting glimpses of that I'm actually oh I knew what to do and I did it without thinking it does it just happens without any yes so I'm starting to find the time doing that more and when when it happens you know our that's what that feels like so in a sense it's easier to do it again because you know what it feels like and it becomes familiar sometimes it becomes familiar because yes that's what your what that's what your you're working with isn't it when you're doing any sort of development is is the negative of you like has become familiar so I stick with that so it's actually then changing that so the positive becomes familiar and then it becomes easy so it's going through that barrier that Kate was talking about and of the fear of making waves by saying what I want and the fear of saying no to somebody because they might be angry with me so going through that and actually finding that the world doesn't fall apart and it's okay but but you have to and then the more you do it the easier it becomes it's the same as intere and then you get the positive reinforcement of i feels good and particularly when you were talking about right action or real action it because the more present i can be and really then it happens yeah so there's none of this I mean it can easily dip into that again but somehow it is extraordinary the more present I am it can just happen I don't have to go through all these procrastinating on that and I think the wonderful thing is and when you're looking at the other types in the Enneagram that this thing to us saying this thinking well I don't feel like that's true I have no problem making decisions and it's recognizing how different we are from other people isn't it yeah I think that's one of the great values of the Enneagram and then when I discover my Ania Graham type it was really quite a relief that there was a lease a ninth of the people around the world actually function and feel maybe in a similar way to me but I didn't always realize that I felt that maybe it was just me that was other than different from other people but when you realize that was it's about 12% of the world's population is roughly your type attack yeah a person that she isn't idea yeah so how is it how is it for people to be close to limited to tight lines do you think our frustrations possibly loves betrayal because you go along you can go along with what they want to do the nine will go along with what partner a friend wants to do and then discover that actually the nine doesn't want to do that so that's frustrating just not being able to know really what the nine is feeling this most is very hard so you tend to be I guess then nine both of your partners they're both seem to be quite opinionated spirited people so you're drawn to people that are more in touch with their feelings at one level so that's something that that maybe attracts you to them because they seem to be more assertive and in touch with you so that's true I don't know I don't I don't know about um you know if there's a better type or types that nines or tend to tend to be drawn towards I can't I can't comment I don't know do you I wasn't thinking much so much as a particular type but just knowing both of your partner's yours better than Sam's ager they just feel that they're very yours is very in touch with her feelings Norman is very certainly assertive should we say yes I think isn't it because I always remember my father saying why are all your friends much stronger than you and I never really thought about it you know he said what is it and and for me I still don't um I think for me being with somebody who is really able to say what he thinks and stuff it does help me I also feel very safe because I know exactly where he is there's a sort of honesty about it [Music] that's certainly true for me I appreciate knowing exactly where where you are yeah yeah yeah yeah and that's very useful for a peacemaker to know exactly where one person is and and that uncertainty that I have is taken away by the certainty oh yeah I think what you say is very interesting actually because I think people come towards 9 is because people say I mean I was thinking I'm boringly unthreatening but then probably there with other people does this incredible frustration who are you where what exactly where's the first person is this fog of a person what are you actually who's there that's what I hear my first husband used to get really really cross with me because he'd say well what do you want to do I said no I don't mind whatever you say baby ones you want is good and actually I think one of the things there's this somebody says what's good for lines is you give them a choice if you say what do you want to do and you can do anything it's like I have no idea but if you say would you like to go swimming horse riding or mountain climbing now go oh I think we'll go swimming so when you're given a choice it's much easier so somebody's actually giving you something to choose between rather than oh that's just all too much to have to choose but yeah you see a really I think he was at 8 but I became more and more and more invisible you know you've come through your relationship and you've found your strength but that marriage ended because I'd almost disappeared I really had because he was very strong and I just gave him yeah I think it's probably mind-boggling to some other types that that we that nines just don't don't know they don't have a sense of identity they don't have a strong sense of self it's just it's the unity yeah because if you if you if you think about duality and non-duality that the nines want this sense of non duality that is that is complete unity and the loss of individuality to a degree isn't it and if that's part of us then you can see how you've lost that you know the little bit that's me somehow does that make sense it does I mean the nardole non duality things very interesting it but how does how does how does a person how does nine fit into that nine - how does a strong sense of self exist at the same time is this non dual reality that's what I I'm trying to crack you know you know the Rumi one they're not from from Rumi where he says it's a little poem that you're the drop of rain water and the rain the drop of water falls into the ocean so it becomes part of the ocean but it is also still that drop and and that's the bit that sort of fries your brain a bit isn't it that you are all you were connected but you're also you're also click active and separate at the same time that's what's tricky so I brought a pile of books here and it's going to show some of these to the camera with a point for this just yet we've got a few minutes left but I know this book that any gram made easy which is one of my favorites I know you said you also enjoyed our Mia because it's basically it really is for someone that doesn't know much about the Enneagram and it has some cartoons in there very simple it's very simple questions and I I think to find your Enneagram type it's probably one of the best started but it doesn't go into great deal of depth but certainly it's a great starter and then there was I bought along two books by Sandra Maitri about the only ground one is the any gram of passions and virtues and the spiritual dimension of the anagram and these both very much take more that but but he was talking about the beginning this the spiritual side of it the bigger picture we've touched on that now towards the end potential if you like and you also mentioned non-duality how it fits in with non duality so these these two books if you've if you know you type and you want to learn more they're probably very good ones to further exploration and there's their the book that by I think Kate referred to a a charmers facets of unity which and the way goes further than Sandra matrix books um much more detail on the spiritual side than there and the bigger picture and this one that I haven't read but I hear is quite good the wisdom of the India Graham the complete guide to psychological and spiritual growth for the nine personality types by Don Richard areso and Russ I'd seen so there there's a few books there any last it'll have about three minutes left it last little comments you want to make can I ask you a question emails what what do you think about lines having had this well it was very interesting about how I felt during the interview because usually I'm quite assertive in these programs I try not to be I try let them flow but I felt my assess just go back it's becoming nine they're in training to the nine energy I thought that was very interesting how how you guys had influenced the part of me which of course I have as we were saying in the beginning we all have each type in us it's just one type predominant and I was feeling very high so I asked them be shy yeah quite sure well that's a wonderful expression and what 9ish this can be like yes it's good because I think I think the very much the one of the aims of this series we're doing on the intagram the nine different types isn't to come up with all the right descriptions and the right answers is to give viewers a feel for these types and it is very much sometimes the feeling of something that feels right and I think that came across very well here so we have about two minutes to run any any sort of words of wisdom from the other side of the bench that just makes you think when you say that how easy it is to be with other nine so in a way and I always remember ages ago there were four of us in a car leaving a retreat and the car obviously wasn't smoke was coming out and goodness knows what and two people immediately I think there was an eight no six got out of the car said we can't go with you the driver was of nine and I was nine and we decided just to go we had and it wasn't terrible we had such fun but because I mean there was none of that sort of oh well this is what's happening so let's go along with it and I just was suddenly thinking when you said you'll become non-irish do you sometimes I'm sorry--but might be wandering somewhere else but but when you're with a group of nines you're not trying to be anything else no so do you sometimes find it tiring if you're with a lot of people because you're you're not usual to holding the space body a new well nice toes what I feel is I like with being with people enormous ly but it's very relaxing if you let them all get on with it and you're still sort of part of it all without you have a deal okay I think we're going to finish on that notes really appreciate the three of you coming into the unconscious TV and share your knowledge nurse with the world and thank you again for watching conscious TV and do look out for the other programs in this Enneagram series which where we've done most of them now but we'll be finishing them off any soon thank you and goodbye you

Channel: conscioustv

Views: 42,519

Rating: 4.927536 out of 5

Keywords: Enneagram, The, Mediator, Dottie Baynham, Cate Parker, Sam Settle, Type 9

Id: T9wIiczGtE8

Length: 53min 50sec (3230 seconds)

Published: Sat Mar 26 2011