What Really Causes Autoimmune Disease?

when you go into the medical literature in autoimmunity related to lupus the epstein-barr virus is associated with seven different autoimmune conditions multiple sclerosis rheumatoid arthritis lupus type one diabetes ulcerative colitis welcome to the doctors pharmacy i'm dr mark hyman and that's pharmacy with an f fa or macy place for conversations that matter and if you suffer from modern autoimmune disease if you've had lupus this conversation is going to matter to you or if you know anybody who's got these problems because they affect 80 million americans one type or another which is more people than have heart disease cancer and diabetes combined so it's a big problem and has very poor answers with traditional medicine and we have today with us my colleague at the ultra wellness center dr todd lepin who's an incredible physician he's one of the leaders in functional medicine teachers all over the world he graduated from dartmouth medical school he's been working with me for i don't know god now 25 years together we've been on this road he looks the same as the day i met him i don't know how he does it he doesn't have one gray hair on his head and and he is is going to talk to us today about a patient of his with lupus who had autoimmune disease that is a very common problem with very bad outcomes it can lead to brain issues kidney failure lung issues joint issues it's a really horrible problem so todd tell us what is the lupus and what is the traditional approach in medicine to to this problem all right so lupus actually comes from the latin word meaning wolf and typically people with classic lupus have um we'll get a facial rash a little it's called the malar rash uh it's like a butterfly rash and um over time they can actually they sort of they say that you develop like wolf like uh uh appearance yeah your cheeks get all red all right exactly and that's due to photosensitivity and so lupus is one of those conditions which we see a lot uh interestingly it's about nine times more prevalent in women so that raises a question what's the difference between women and men and why are women still trying to figure that out well i actually i think i actually i actually think i have a i have an insight into that uh it's really quite interesting men and women are different how many of women are different right right and then the other thing that is also interesting is that uh we traditionally treat it with you know medications like steroids methotrexate plaque when ill those kinds of things which all have their you know significant side effects um and in my opinion one of the these are powerful immune suppressing drugs oh yeah and they even use biological agents biologics which really shut off your immune system and they they can work but they're often fraught with danger including the risk of cancer and overwhelming infection if you get a bad infection so right they're not they're they're very expensive up to 50 grand a year per yeah per person yeah and then also to you know one of the things that i always used to um it was intriguing to me uh when i was uh doing my training was drug-induced lupus because we were taught that lupus is an autoimmune condition but there is a condition called drug-induced lupus so that always raises my question well what's how is a drug causing lupus and what we see is that in i think one of the uh major drugs was an older drug called procainamide i remember using that yeah it was an antiarrhythmic yeah and in certain patients who got procainamide they would develop lupus looks just like you know what we call lupus sl systemic lupus erythematosus and that always fascinated me that a drug would be triggering this and when i actually went down that sort of rabbit hole what we find out is that procainamide can actually damage dna and it's it's probably theorized that that some types of things like drugs or stealth infections like viruses uh may trigger uh the body and cause some damage in the dna and when we test for lupus i mean some of the tests that are are double-stranded dna antibodies the traditional blood tests look at you know what what are the autoimmune antibodies yeah and it's interesting because there's a whole bunch of different markers that are are used uh in the diagnosis of autoimmune conditions you have autoimmune panels like the traditional one is a a the anti-nuclear antigen typically in patients who have lupus that's positive and then you can look for other other biomarkers like double-stranded dna and and such and the ana can be positive in many many people even if they don't have lupus and there's this whole phenomena pre-autoimmune disease where you're starting to have these autoimmune antibodies but you don't really have a lot of symptoms yet right and that's pre-diabetes like pre-autoimmune disease exactly and i i always tell my patients that's like when the check engine light comes on in your car exactly if you ignore that you're going to get you know smoke coming out of the hood soon which which traditional medicine ignores if you don't meet these five criteria for this diagnosis then you don't have it and we can't treat you right it's like the patient i had who's came with blood sugar of 120. i said geez the doctor checked that out he's like oh yeah i said what's happening what do you recommend he says well he said i should watch it until it's 126 and then he'll give me treatment for diabetes is that is that crazy yeah it's yes we'll wait till the horse is on the bar and then we'll try to corral it yeah yeah it's it's unfortunate but uh i i guess you know when you look at how many people do have uh conditions that are you know even subclinical hypothyroidism there's a lot of things that if you look early enough you'll it's a lot easier to treat them when you catch them early you know if you're starting to have early cognitive decline alzheimer's is a lot easier to treat when you catch it early diabetes is a lot easier heart disease autoimmune conditions so preemptive uh personalized medicine is the way to go that's what we do at the ultra wellness center here in functional medicine so so this patient had had this condition that was treated by traditional medicine we shot a bunch of drugs um she actually came in um had done courses of uh primarily plaquenil and prednisone and she was actually pretty proactive uh in her uh uh sort of self-care um by the way for those listening is the same as hydroxychloroquine that they're using for cova-19s right and and we also realize that plaquinol is actually an antimicrobial yeah it's used for malaria that's the original use for it but they found somebody somebody must have somebody must have had malaria and then develop lupus and you know they said hey this is working so it's you know that's sort of like how they sort of discover other uses for uh medications um so but this uh particular uh she was actually involved in the health care field i think she was a therapist uh if i recall properly and so she had done a lot of stuff on her own the big thing with her is that and she told me this that she felt that her lupus was actually triggered by stress she had a son who had some medical issues and um was having issues both with you know dealing with a teenager who was had some illness and uh that sort of tripped it over and oftentimes in if i take the history of patients who develop an autoimmune condition it's oftentimes followed by a period of chronic stress that's unrelenting it's a very very common thing and well let's talk about this just for a minute because you know my thinking about stress is it sort of sets the table for other things to sort of take over so it doesn't cause not in and of itself it may it may cause some illnesses for some people but for the most time it exacerbates whatever's going on so if you're stressed your immune system's suppressed you're gonna get more inflammation and then if you have underlying issues like this woman did they're gonna come out absolutely so tell us how you approach this from a functional medicine perspective how do we think about autoimmune disease in general from a functional medicine perspective and lupus when i see a patient who has lupus and i go down sort of the checklist so i look at okay do they have sensitivity to gluten the other thing which i find in a lot of lupus patients is epstein-barr virus so epstein-barr virus is the virus that causes mono and mono stands for mononucleosis because the virus infects your white blood cells and the thing about epstein-barr virus is it's very common about 70 80 percent of the population has it and most of the time the immune system will clear it and it's a herpes-class virus just like a cold sore and once you get a herpes uh cold sore that virus stays in your body all the time most of the time the immune system keeps it in check but there are certain individuals where the virus will reactivate and the herpes virus will come out or the mono can actually reactivate so cold sore in your lip is basically a herpes virus herpes and it doesn't come out all the time it comes out under stress under stress cold weather emotional stress too much sunlight getting a cold something like so it's sort of a latent virus that we all live with hundreds of viruses in us when we're stressed it allows those viruses to emerge exactly and so this is what happened with this patient yeah and and and so i've i've i always like to uh go down uh and ask the question so why is this what's you know like why do women have lupus more than men well that's functional medicines why why why right and then and then and then uh interestingly when you go into the medical literature in autoimmunity related to lupus the epstein-barr virus is associated with seven different autoimmune conditions multiple sclerosis rheumatoid arthritis lupus type 1 diabetes ulcerative colitis so what what happens is the the um in some cases patients will reactivate and it causes a stimulation of the immune system and the immune system will then start reacting to it and then interestingly i've always been curious about photosensitivity like why why does photosensitivity happen in patients who have lupus what what's going on there why is that when they get sunlight uh uh is it affecting them and what i found out in the in the literature is that the uh uh causes the body to produce more interferon gamma and interferon gamma is our bodies uh one of the uh cytokines uh that help our bodies to fight off viruses and when we have high levels of this interferon gamma it sensitizes the body to sunlight so that's why you get that that sort of lupus-like photosensitivity especially with exposure to uh to sunlight um and interferon is one of the treatments for looking at for fighting so they have what they do is they have an overabundance and it may be a genetic predisposition there may be some single nuclei polymorphisms that certain lupus patients have and they produce lots of interferon gamma and and and that and that actually gets involved in the skin cells and it can make them more photosensitive so it's it's an interesting it's an interesting phenomenon um and then the other thing about you know when and i've seen this with a lot of regular mainstream doctors they'll say well you can't really check for episode bar virus because everybody's you know if the antibiotics are positive it just means that you've been exposed to well that's true but if you actually do uh specific testing for epstein-barr virus so there's a panel that we do which checks for antibodies to the nuclear antigen and uh the um cytoplasmic antigen and then also the early antigen and then i'll also throw in the uh epstein-barr virus by pcr so pcr is checking for the dna of the virus you're actually seeing if there's live virus around circulating in your blood not just your immune response exactly so what and typically um in the panel that we that we use um if you have the uh three out of four uh antibodies that are positive especially with the early antigen and or with the pcr of the epstein-barr virus you know proved positive that the abs the epsilon viruses is react react exactly reactive uh and that's where then you then you then say then you have to ask yourself well what do i do to you know calm down that uh that particular uh virus um so it's it's there's a lot of things that you have to look at yeah i mean that's true i function medicine really has a different perspective and that's why we we see so many patients here at the ultra wellness center who've tried so many things and then they get better because we look at all the factors so when i think of an autoimmune patient or just any disease in general they're really only five main triggers it's a toxin so i've had patients with lupus who have autoimmune disease triggered by heavy metals for example could be mercury an infection like lupus or it could be the microbiome changes yes allergen something they're eating like gluten yeah and it could be poor diet which is inflammatory and has you know for example a lot of the emulsifiers in our food like carrageenan and all these gums yes they cause leaky gut driving inflammation and it also can be stressed like you said and often it's many of those things together exactly yes so for her it was a few of those things for her with stress and the virus and also um her gut was a mess too yes uh her gut was a mess yeah so the other thing that that she noticed is that if she ate foods that were high in lectins things like the nightshade family that her symptoms actually uh got worse and there's interesting some of the work by peter d'adamo who is the author of the blood type diet he's the guru of lectins and what we find is that in certain individuals when you have high lectins in your diet and these are compounds that are found in plants which actually act as a defense mechanism for the plant so that uh animals and insects are less likely to eat them lectins there's a in the medical literature a case study of a hospital that thought they would have a healthy eating day so they served everybody red kidney beans in a in some type of a casserole or a soup and then everybody got sick from because it was very high in lectins and it actually caused transient leaky gut they had an immune response to the lectins in the plants and i've had a number of patients is not everybody will have that response to lectins i mean there's a lot of uh uh promotion out there of lectin-free diets as the cure for everything or low lectins low lectins yeah it's impossible to get a low lectin diet and i think i think it can be helpful for some specific patients i think i think that the thing is that everybody finds the latest fad and think it's the cure for everything it's really not and when you're in functional medicine you get humbled by understanding how complex things are absolutely how everybody's really different how you know one person may tolerate gluten in another piece may not one person may be fine with lectins another person may not but if if you have an autoimmune inflammatory condition it's something worth trying absolutely it is and i'll i'll interject here because this is an interesting finding i stumbled upon this and again this was actually by peter d'adamo who uh got me down this uh this rabbit hole because i i just recently had a patient who had five autoimmune conditions including lupus and um i checked uh for a uh a lab test called manos binding lectin for it um actually no but i know about it right it's one of those things and he's the one who got me to uh understand this so manos binding lighting is a is a compound that our body makes to bind mannose and a lot of sugar it's a sugar it's a mouse as a sugar and uh what you find out is that uh people who have mannose binding lectin deficiency are at higher risk for lupus and hers was undetectable yeah i think the other thing i want to just point out is that you know you're talking about this patient with lupus and she had gluten she had got issues she had stress she had this virus she had electing sensitivity but that was her and you take ten of their patients with lupus they're all different they're all different hey everybody it's dr hyman thanks for tuning in to the doctor's pharmacy i hope you're loving this podcast it's one of my favorite things to do and introducing you all the experts that i know and i love and that i've learned so much from and i want to tell you about something else i'm doing which is called mark's picks it's my weekly newsletter and in it i share my favorite stuff from foods to supplements to gadgets to tools to enhance your health it's all the cool stuff that i use and that my team uses to optimize and enhance our health and i'd love you to sign up for the weekly newsletter i'll only send it to you once a week on fridays nothing else i promise and all you have to do is go to drhymon.compics to sign up that's forward drhyman.com picks p-i-c-k-s and sign up for the newsletter and i'll share with you my favorite stuff that i use to enhance my health and get healthier and better and live younger longer now back to this week's episode problem with traditional thinking is that everybody with lupus gets the same treatment once you make the diagnosis you stop thinking and in functional medicine when you have the diagnosis that's when you start thinking it's just the first step of solving the problem it's like okay this is what your picture looks like okay what are the potential factors that we need to think about to get to the root cause and then we have to treat the cause not the symptom yes and that's the beauty function so for her how did you treat the causes of her lupus and what happened well for her it was really uh focusing on she already actually was doing very well i actually tested her even though she was uh she said that she was eating clean diet i made sure so she said she was avoiding gluten avoiding dairy avoiding lectins and her testing was negative for any reactions to gluten so i said you're doing a good job keep it up it was negative for leaky gut you're doing a great job let's let's do that but what i did do and she had never had done is she did tell me that she had a bad case of mono when she was a teenager and my my theory with her is that she probably when she went under this very stressful time period that the epstein-barr virus reactivated for whatever reason and hers was she had a positive pcr so the dna of the virus was floating around in her blood and also she had positive antibodies three out of four of her antibiotics were positive that was to me a smoking gun that that her epstein-barr virus was really driving her uh her lupus symptoms so initially what i did is i treated her with some medicinal mushrooms things like turkey tail i used also lysine which is an amino acid which can help and i combine that also with some monolaurin yeah lysine is often something people take to prevent herpes outbreaks on their lip it works and it works incredibly well it works quite well because that in that helps inactivate the virus and other foods that contain arginine like nuts which are good for you but in this case they act have high arginine levels that actually can activate herpes virus yes that's an interesting uh observation but um that was so that was one of the ways in which i initially uh treated her and um she did get some improvement with that um and then another thing which i uh added to her uh regimen is low-dose naltrexone uh and i i'm sure you use that yourself and i've been really amazed at what is so so naltrexone this is an interesting thing so naltrexone is an opiate blocker and i'm not sure how they actually stumbled upon this but if somebody takes too much uh opiates and they overdose you can give naltrexone to block the effect of the opiate and when someone has an overdose of heroin or narcotic they give him narcan which is naltrexone and that stops him from dying exactly and it's theorized that when you give naltrexone at very low doses what you do is you block the body's own opioid receptors and the body senses that and it starts producing more natural feel good molecules endorphins these are these are our own bodies pharmacy for uh the pain pain molecules which in turn modulates the immune system so when you upregulate opioids you're actually modulating the immune system and i've been very i used to use it primarily um in patients with ulcerative colitis and multiple sclerosis but now i'm using a lot more patients and i find that it works really quite well in a whole host of autoimmune conditions um so i used it uh in her and it's very low toxic it's probably the safest thing it's very safe to use yeah you can have a couple of side effects in a few people but it's probably one of the safest medications that i prescribe absolutely very very has to be compounded um and you slowly work your way up on it my experience with it is it can help but unless you deal with the root cause again it's a symptom manager so it can help mitigate the symptoms but it's not going to address the underlying biology exactly it it it you're actually true it's not going to reverse the condition but it's one of those things where the risk benefit is so good that it's worth doing in a lot of patients so i actually added that uh to her um and then we went to the next level which is that she you know we tried the uh the the natural route and then she got some benefit but it wasn't really where she wanted to so i said well let's go ahead and we'll give her an antiviral so i actually gave her some valtrex at high dose uh i gave it to her i think three times a day i think you've probably done that yourself uh high-dose valtrex or epstein-barr virus um there is no simple one-size-fits-all treatment for epstein-barr virus i've learned that it really isn't um and she actually responded remarkably well to that uh within a couple of months she was like 80 percent better using the valtrex and i've had a few patients that that was very very uh yeah i think that's right i think you know what's interesting the more you do this you will realize you know what works with one person may not work with another person sometimes i have seen bar you can balance it may not do anything and i think i've had the same experience that some patients you know you give them as relatively benign antiviral yeah like baltrex and it works well otherwise don't respond to that about other patients use something called valcite which is very expensive has higher levels of toxicity but it actually can be effective in select patients but i think there's other therapies that uh she used which are also important to mention because you know as i've gotten more experience in this i'm more interested in how do i activate the body's own healing systems how do i use therapies that are regenerative how do i use therapies that are facilitating the body's own ability to fight things and and she ended up using one of these therapies so can you talk about that sure yeah well before i actually talk about that um the other thing that also i've used in patients is intravenous vitamin c and that's actually in the medical literature yeah high b vitamin c at a fairly high dose is about 25 to 50 grams it's been shown to be very effective also for epstein-barr virus that's another thing in her particular by the way how does that work how does that work well uh at high levels uh it actually works as a pro-oxidant so we think a vitamin c is an antioxidant but actually it's working as a pro-oxidant right which goes into the next her therapy which is the therapy how does it do that you do you want to explain how um well it's a ying and a yang because there's there's um uh reduction which is the adding of electrons and oxidation issues the removing of electrons and it has to do with coupling coupling of the oxidative forces versus the reductive forces so it's a little bit like a magnetic pulse and at high doses vitamin c increases the release of hydrogen peroxide from the white blood cells so people don't understand this but how does our white blood cell kill bugs we bleach them we bleed it produces bleach hydrogen peroxide and ozone which are all oxidants yes right so that's exactly how our bodies kill things and it sometimes can't do the job and using these other therapies like high-dose vitamin c can help actually increase the body's ability to kill infections exactly and they're they've actually studied it in icus they're using it at cobit 19. you yeah you bring up a really interesting point which is that you know these we actually there's a term in medicine called redox signaling molecules and when you have uh these redox signaling molecules which of ozone will be one it actually up regulates your body's own uh reparative uh forces so talk about what she did with with ozone yeah ozone was a game changer for her she ended up uh using ozone and she said it was it was like a game changer which is really interesting because it was the first time i had a patient who had lupus who responded to ozone in that way it was really quite quite amazing it was it was how did she get the ozone she got it she um she got it um uh actually she got it uh she was administered by a local uh a physician who she was seeing because she was seeing me in consultation and she actually got it directly and uh intravaginally so i'm not even interviewing she didn't even get intravenously yeah and she had that response it was really quite you can give it intravenously you can give it in the muscle you can give it rectally vaginally yeah it gets absorbed and it can be very very effective and rectal and vaginal treatments you can do at home and you don't even need a doctor to order it yeah i mean it's basically it's oxygen on steroids that's really what it is yeah it's high dose oxygen and a little bit of ozone right so if you ever go out after a thunderstorm and you get that nice clean smell afterwards that's ozone in the air that's that's the lightning producing ozone it's it's it's an as it's a special uh species of reactive species of oxygen and it's one of those oxidative therapies just like vitamin c that it gives you a little bit of a stress but it also activates your body's own anti-inflammatory mechanisms antioxidant mechanisms absolutely yeah it can be anti-viral and kill bugs which is powerful so i think it sounds like a wacky therapy but it's something we do here at the ultra wellness center i mean it's something that is i know we were talking about earlier that when we both heard our patients talking about this and i often heard this but you know dr hyman i tried everything and i did ozone therapy and it was the thing that made me better and i was like oh that's interesting and i you know had a little footnote in my head but i was like that's a little weird i don't know about that and when i got sick with mold toxicity and autoimmune and colitis it was the thing that actually flipped my body into a healing response and it doesn't treat any disease it just activates your body's own healing mechanisms yeah and that's very powerful very powerfully and very quickly i mean i i had uh you know autoimmune disease brain fog and within a few days it was it wasn't like it took weeks it was in a few days i really turned around dramatically absolutely yeah the other thing which i'll mention uh as it relates to lupus and women and i've found this and actually again i whenever i i see something that's sort of out of the box thinking i'll go into the medical literature to see if it's substantiated and what i found is a pattern in patients who have lupus is their estrogen detoxification pathway and when we check estrogen levels and hormone levels in patients we don't just check your estrogen and maybe your progesterone we check all of the hormones and then we also check the metabolites of the hormones and i found this pattern in not all lupus patients but some lupus patients is they have a increased pathway for metabolism to the what's called the four hydroxy uh estrogen and four hydroxy estrogen is not you're not gonna go to your regular doctor you're over there they won't check that they're not gonna check it it comes down to urine it comes out in the urine exactly it comes on the urine and i learned about this through uh jeffrey bland and it's one of the things we test here at the ultra wellness exactly and jeffrey bland uh he basically called this you know like the uh the dancing shiva and uh in some individuals because the woman's hormones go up and down and they have to be detoxified throughout the monthly cycle and you oftentimes will see patients who have lupus they'll flare with their cycles and when you measure their 4-hydroxy estrogen they're very high and the 4-hydroxy estrogen is what's called a quinone adduct so it damages dna and when you have a high level to this over time it actually increases your risk for breast cancer this is why you think women might have a higher risk of lupus absolutely absolutely and i've got i've got actually i have a literature paper that cites this and i've been doing it in my own little cohorts of patients and i oftentimes check it and then a lot of patients they have that and then the other thing that's so wait wait wait before you i always want to unpack that because that was very powerful what you just said really said is that is that there are some women who have trouble metabolizing estrogen and it goes down a pathway that produces a toxic estrogen that damages dna which is what we see in lupus and that by fixing that and we know how to fix that with functional medicine using food and various nutrients and herbs that actually help upregulate or fix those pathways these patients can get better absolutely yes absolutely and and the other thing is so by the way most traditional doctors will not be looking at your hormones if you have lupus right and then the other thing that we then then do is we then look at the genetics so we look at your genetic pathways so there's a specific polymorphism called the 1b1 pathway and when that has a variation you are more prone towards producing the 4 hydroxy estrogen so typically you start you know how would you fix that well what you do and there's interestingly the the the particular uh uh snip that's involved in uh that that particular pathway uh get that gets actually up regulated by polycystic aromatic hydrocarbons basically if you eat a lot of charcoal boiled food and barbecue you're going to be operating up regularly in that pathway so a patient's got lupus they don't you don't want them either whether you're grilling your vegetables or grilling your steak it's exactly the same problem exactly it's the ash it's that it's that those complex and stuff blackened stuff exactly that up regulates that enzyme the other thing which you can do is by adding through your diet cruciferous vegetables um supplements like dim helps to shift that pathway in a different direction yeah so it's very it's very very powerful stuff and when you start you know doing the testing and start looking at it from all different angles you can really move the needle and i had i'll never forget this one patient when i first learned about this uh the patient basically told me in her history that everything started after she got mono as a teenager and her life changed after that and she was never able to clear it and uh when i checked her uh her estrogen and estrogen detox pathway she had the highest four hydroxy i've ever seen she was very very sick and that's where i sort of understood okay this may be playing a role with the sex differentiation yeah between men and women and lupus because it's it's it's like nine times more prevalent in women yeah so this is such a great example in a case of someone who has an autoimmune disease which is so common that you acted like a medical detective and you found all the various things that were going on with her she had sort of this chronic epstein-barr infection that was reactivated by stress she had gut disturbances she had lectin intolerance she had gluten sensitivity uh she had uh this hormonal dysfunction with abnormal estrogen metabolism and these are the kinds of things that that we do here at the ultra wanna help us navigate to how to treat each person as an individual this is really personalized medicine personalized nutrition and it is very sophisticated it's very effective and it's something that helps relieve suffering for so many people when they get stuck and i feel like this is where we're going in medicine it's where the science is going functional medicine is just uh an approach that helps us apply the science of systems medicine and network medicine today rather than waiting 10 20 30 years we actually know how and we're learning every day i mean when i think about how little we knew about the microbiome when we started this 25 years ago and how much we know now we were literally groping in the dark but we we had the basic idea and we were able to apply these principles and get people better even if we didn't quite understand what was happening right yeah it was it was quite amazing so i mean i think it's important people understand that this is one case of lupus and this was her issue but these are common themes and for somebody else with lupus it might be something else and this is really the beauty of functional medicine is why you know we have such great success here we have providers a collection of doctors and staff here who've been working on this for 60 years over collectively treating these complex patients from all over the world we're now doing virtual consultations given cover 19 we've switched over because now we have the ability to do that and i just encourage anybody who's struggling to think about getting help and they're welcome to come see us at the ultra wellness center they go to ultrawellcenter.com and we're here to help you and navigate through some of these complex issues and figure out what it is that is your issue that needs to get treated and i think that's so so encouraging to me because i i love doing this because i remember working as a traditional doctor and you know i was good at prescribing pills and matching the pill to the ill and people would you know manage manage their symptoms but i got sick of managing and i wanted to fix things yeah and uh that's the beauty of functional medicines that we help relieve needs of suffering for millions of people uh all over the world from practitioners in every country and and this is the future where it's going we're just a little ahead of the game uh so encourage people to uh not lose hope and to seek out answers and to learn more about functional medicine uh and uh i encourage you to share this podcast with your friends and family on social media if you liked it that leave a comment we'd love to hear from you and subscribe every year your podcast and we'll see you next time on the doctor's pharmacy all right thanks mark [Music] you

Channel: Mark Hyman, MD

Views: 500,871

Rating: 4.9196281 out of 5

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Id: 5krmzztYr5o

Length: 32min 48sec (1968 seconds)

Published: Mon Jul 13 2020