Discovering the Truth About My Identity (Part 1) - Jackie Hill Perry

i think it would have been super helpful for me if  when people gave me the gospel they actually told   me about jesus they often just said repent go to  hell god is holy he requires this all of those are   true but you have not told me about the beauty of  god you have not told me about the beauty of jesus welcome to the focus on the family  broadcast helping families thrive jackie welcome to focus on the family thanks for  having me hey let's jump right into your story   uh you say you started feeling this attraction  toward women before you could even spell your   own name yeah you know again people are going to  be all over the spectrum of understanding this   topic in the listenership and people that really  have not encountered that kind of thing and then   those that have in their family one of the one of  the more frequent requests we have here is help   for parents in this area where their teen has  declared themselves same sex attracted etc so   this is a really important topic some people i'm  sure saying why are you covering this we need   to cover it folks because this is one of the deep  cultural issues today so let's paint a picture for   the listener um what was that time in your life  like how old were you what was going on yeah uh i   i don't remember exact age but i know it  was kindergarten first grade second grade   earlier somewhere in there yeah yeah um and i the  best way i could frame it is that the same way in   which you know little girls like little boys on  the playground was the same way in which i liked   both you know and it wasn't something that i  saw because this is early 90s so it isn't as   if i was exposed to it and therefore saw it and  saw oh they're gay on tv let me be gay i'm five   i don't i didn't choose those kinds of affections  or attractions but it was something that i noticed   i didn't have a name for it until i went to  church let me ask you this the uh you know that   attraction i mean i can remember the the giddiness  of thinking about girls in elementary school but   i didn't understand what that was yeah i mean  did you have a greater sophistication of that   did you understand what a physical attraction  was i'm not sure i just knew i liked them okay   and wanted to be near them and close to them in a  way that seemed wrong and i say wrong just because   i do think that the conscience speaks you know  i do think that i was young enough to know that   this isn't something that you you expose or allow  your teacher to know or tell your parents about   um and i i partially think that disney movies  help me to actually be able to identify that   what is happening is an affection is an attraction  because the same way that princesses have princes   is the same way i want my own princess what was  going on in your life at that time spiritually   were you did your family go to church what was  your family life so my close intimate family is   non-christian um but i went to church every  weekend with my aunt merle who is a christian she   was one of the most saved still is one of the most  saved people i've ever met in my life i've never   seen her wear one pair of pants ever on saturday  friday wednesday so she's proper oh she's safe and   so being around her i think gave me a real good  foundation for who jesus was and what he required   and that was a good influence on you at the time  or did it create this um kind of unwanted uh   conflict for you oh for sure which is i think  a mercy um just because i think i had a level   of conviction just because even though you know  when you're in sunday school they're not teaching   you romans 1 but they are teaching you john  3 16 which is that gospel of the world that   he gave his only begotten son whoever believes  in him shall not perish we've got to deal with   the parish part like there's obviously some reason  that jesus had to die for sinners and i think what   i'm doing is the reason that jesus had to die but  i don't want to die for him so yeah no that's true   you compare your struggle with homosexuality  at some point there i guess you're recognizing   more formally again i don't know your age but  you compared it to the struggle of adam and eve   what was that comparison yeah i mean genesis 3  to me has so many parallels to a lot of our own   issues in life but primarily one of the things  that stood out to me it's many but one of the   things that stood out to me most is how when eve  looks at the tree she said that it looks good for   food there's delight to the eyes that it desired  to make one wise that desired part was interesting   it's like oh she had an affection for a created  thing and that's literally what romans 1 says that   we do is that we want the cree created thing more  than we want the creator and so i think what i was   experiencing was the fruit of what adam brought  into this world which is that we have this desire   and this lust and this this affection for those  things that god has told us that we don't or we   shouldn't eat from you know yeah it's every day  i mean that's part of the struggle in this life   that's what it's about in fact you uh you describe  something and i think people if you're struggling   which should be just about everybody with  something oh yeah i want you to lean into this   question you said the devil made more sense than  god at this time i think a lot of people that have   addiction that have desires that they're not able  to get control of can really identify with that   statement fill it in for me yeah i mean because  so many of god's commands are not normative for   us i think they're counter-intuitive i think  what the devil offers makes a lot of sense hey   go uh lie on your taxes so you don't have to pay  as much like to to be honest and to give more than   you make and to do all these things that i think  god would have us do doesn't make sense to us and   that's why i think uh to do what god has told  us to do takes faith and so for the person who   has same-sex desires to say don't give in to those  desires crucify them take up your cross daily and   follow jesus that makes absolutely no sense until  you actually believe that jesus is worth following   until you believe that he's worth it then you're  willing to crucify those things that feel so right   yeah it's so true i you know i often use this  example because for me it's a good example and   i don't mean to bash peter but before you know  the lord went to the cross and before the holy   spirit was given he's with the lord in the  garden strapping on his sword he's going to   go to battle for his guy right the lord and and  you know what a good thing a guy would do a man   he looks like he's in there it looks noble bang  he was going i don't think he was going for the   dude's ear number one he was going for his throat  in my opinion and then jesus rebukes him and says   hey you live by the sword you die by the sword  this is not the way of my kingdom and then you   see stephen who's filled with the holy spirit  who's able to pray for those who are killing him   you know for the lord not to hold this against  them i think it's not humanly possible frankly   to do that i think it works against our flesh  against our nature as human beings for vengeance   for retribution all those things but when you're  in christ you do almost the opposite of what your   flesh wants you to do yeah right yeah because  and that's what you're describing because you   need you need god to obey god you know and i think  that's the frustration of many that have grown up   in church that deal with uh sexual identity is  that they have tried honestly i think by virtue   of just wrong communication as to how to fight  this they have tried to do it in their flesh and   that that is an impossible feat when you have  an affection and an attraction for women or men   that will be there possibly for the rest of your  life and to have to fight and push against it   you need the resurrecting power of jesus to help  you do that jackie let me also fill in the picture   for the folks that are listening about your  relationship with your dad your mom at the time   etc all the stuff that's evolving you you've in  your early childhood you had some really difficult   experiences with with men help paint that picture  for us well i mean but there's my dad who was   very inconsistent he would be in my life for a  year drop out for two be there for five months   drop out for three years um and so i think  that that just created a narrative like men   are not trustworthy not consistent in fact you  called him the sometimes dad that really i mean   that's true for all of us as dads we've got  to be careful not to become the sometime dad   yeah because all the time he dropped in when it  was convenient right uh which is so contrary to   the father and then the other instance is that  i was molested i don't know before i was seven   uh which going to therapy uh one thing my  therapist said that stuck out stuck out to me and   she was like do you ever remember being hugged or  kissed or touched by your father before you were   molested i was like no i don't and she was like  that tells me that your first male affection was   through abuse and so what does that do to the mind  or even just your memory to never have experienced   affection from a man in a healthy way and you  know jackie's something you mentioned in your book   and i felt this too having an alcoholic father  um the resiliency of a child's heart for their   parents i mean they they can take a lot you  still have this unbelievable love for your   mom and dad even if they harm you or ignore  you or whatever it is isn't it true it's hope   you always have hope you hope that they'll love  you back one day i think that's exactly why jesus   said you know if your heart's not like a child  i mean that that childlike hope and desire it's   a beautiful way to say it but you describe the  day your dad said some words that cut you really   deeply what did he say yeah we were uh at his  sister's house uh he was drinking not drinking   a lot but he was drinking and they were you know  playing cards and all of this and he mentioned how   he notices that i don't call him dad you  know i just i just i would never call him   by a name i would just speak um just because  i didn't think he deserved to be called that   and he said you know what something is something  that's interesting about me which is that   i love you i love you i love my other children i  love my wife but if tomorrow you guys never wanted   to speak to me again it wouldn't bother me and he  was so sincere he wasn't even trying to be cruel   he was being honest and that scared me because it  told me oh you won't change the hope that i have   stored up for you actually is a waste of my time  did it again did it nullify the first statement   the second one i mean when you hear that you're  excited about the first one it didn't cause my   dad was an interesting person one it's been said  that he might have been bipolar so that's a factor   he was depressive he was mildly narcissistic so  that to me when i became a christian i actually   had empathy because i saw a man that just was  incapable of serving someone other than himself   and so when he told me that it was kind of like  he wanted me to understand why he can't be as   present because he just doesn't have the ability  to that's not to say that he he shouldn't have   been uh held accountable but it is to say that  he needed more help that i could give well and it   reminds me too for all of us as parents especially  you know we can tease a lot i think dads have that   ability to tease your kids and you're doing it  for fun be careful yeah because what you say   can really cut their heart even in a way that's  unintentional and you're going to be having that   conversation 10 15 years from that moment and  your son or daughter is going to remember that   you're not going to remember it at all yeah  but they're going to say dad do you remember   when you said this to me and you what and uh  i mean that's the kind of thing i bet your dad   you know if he were alive today he might say that  and i never knew that i said that but many fathers   will have that lack of recollection yeah yeah  a good reminder today on focus on the family   uh with jim daly our guest today is jackie hill  perry and we've got her book gay girl good god   at our website or call if we can be of help to you  our number is 800 the letter a and the word family   and online we're at focusonthefamily.com broadcast  and jackie in light of what you experienced with   men and that conversation with your dad where were  you emotionally uh in the aftermath of all that   with my father yeah well just in life generally  probably numb um i think now i'm relearning to   feel i think having a husband and having children  but i think my coping mechanism was instead of me   allowing people my father the abuse all  of this to affect me i'm just going to   withdraw emotions and not feel anything  which is really super harmful i think   but that's all i knew how to do at the time  so to pick up the story then uh maybe around   junior high i'm not sure correct me if  i'm wrong you started to dress more like   a man high school after high school yeah and uh  and you obviously were recognizing or accepting   this same-sex attraction that you had was it  exclusive to that did you only have that desire   for other girls and guys were like not not even  interesting to you i mean they're cute and they   were cute um but i think the thing that women  had was they had the ability to have my emotions   because again i was afraid to give my emotions to  someone that would abuse them or take advantage   in my entire life women had always seemed faithful  and so for me that's what it was i think the   dressing more masculine honestly i think that's  super complicated i think a part of it is that   i never was the hyper feminine kind of female  i didn't like pink don't like lip gloss still   don't wear purses kind of sometimes because  i don't want to hold my phone in my hand all   the time but you know i i wasn't that kind of  person but i think when you grow up in this   culture where you don't want to wear dresses the  automatic thing that they tell you is you're being   a tom boy or you're acting like a boy i think they  do the same thing to boys that might lean more   emotional you're acting like a girl as if emotions  are a feminine trait they're actually human   and so i think a pro i was being a product with  the culture telling me that i was not woman enough   because i was not fitting the mode  of what they said women were to be   um and i think that's one thing that i would like  the church and people to change is how we inspire   and inform people about gender i think our trans  uh the the the wave and like trans and identity   is a product of what we have been telling people  women are and what telling people what men are and   so i think we're just reaping the fruits of not uh  teaching what the bible says about gender well the   obvious question is how can that be done i mean  how do we reinforce those the binary gender i mean   i think we need to deconstruct our understanding  of gender and look at what look at it through the   lens of scripture for example absolutely does the  bible say that being a woman means you wear pink   does the bible say that being overly emotional  makes you feminine does the but you give what i'm   saying like we've made these kinds of things bible  and they don't exist in the scriptures that's true   i i want to come back to something you said  as well which is um that having a girlfriend   became or felt like as natural as smiling for you  that's a pretty lie that yeah i mean fill it in   what what are you getting at yeah the the first  time i interacted with a girl i thought i would   be more nervous i thought it would feel strange i  think i thought it would feel forced but it felt   normal to me which again goes against  romans 1 romans 1 calls it unnatural   but it felt natural and so i think this is  why uh hearing you know homosexuality is   unnatural are wrong i think that's why we have  to have a sense of empathy when we preach it   because it is wrong by faith i know it's wrong  but it doesn't feel wrong it didn't feel wrong   ever um at that time and so that kind of goes back  to your statement about the things of the enemy   are more natural than the things of god to  our flesh and that's true i mean that's where   that connects for me um you have a compelling  story about a time when you and your girlfriend   encountered a violent man and this is really  interesting to me you know i'm always when i'm   talking to somebody i'm looking for that gold  nugget what was that thing the lord did that   was profound this strikes me as that moment for  you in your life it was one of them uh we were   at a hotel and there was a guy he was mad about  something i don't know what he was but he was big   bigger than me he had muscles and he was mean  um and he was i guess there to attack somebody   and i'm playing you know the masculine role the  male role in the relationship and so i'm supposed   to be the protector and you're there with your  girlfriend yeah but i had this strong sense of   i can't protect her and i need somebody to  protect me and i think it was the holy spirit   that also just brought it just reminded me  of who i actually was like you are a woman   and you need to become the woman that god  created you to be again and so it was a weird   yeah strange little situation but i think the  holy spirit used it to bring me back to truth   well as you as you're talking jackie i'm thinking  about the dichotomy between the flesh and the   spirit and how natural things are and how we're  encouraged through our culture to follow your   desires just be who you want to be do what you  want to do it's all good yeah that's not the   case though and scripture is pretty clear about  that yeah um was there a conviction going on in   that moment well the the interesting thing about  me i think because i kind of was raised in church   i was convicted the entire time i was never at  peace uh when i was actively a lesbian and i think   that it's just it's hard to do that when you've  seen uh or heard stories about jesus when you've   seen him lived out in someone's life when you know  that he has more for you when you know that he   died and rose for you like it's a hard thing but  it also felt impossible to obey him it's like i   don't i know i'm supposed to but i don't know how  to and so i rather just continue to be disobedient   than try to force myself to be something that i i  can't be yeah you know jackie one of the difficult   things and you know i've i've reached out to the  lgbt community i have a couple of really strong   friends in that community and we don't give  up on each other's convictions right we start   almost every conversation hey i believe marriage  is between one man and one woman and they'll say i   totally disagree but what else can we talk about  you know it's hard to start a conversation or   develop a friendship on the differences start in  that place of humanity what you suffer from what   you know what's difficult in your life and i think  that's where more in the christian community if we   had connection with people in the lgbt community  we would have that empathy yeah because that's one   thing that i noticed it's not monolithic  both sides if i can refer to it that way   the shocker to me is that there is a variety of  expression within the lgbtq community and i was   able to convince my friends that there's a variety  of christian expression as well and in fact one   of them said i thought all of you christians were  just like westboro baptist which is you know it's   ironic they're very in my opinion they're a very  unchristian group of people that want to do harm   to people they were the ones protesting at the  military veterans funerals and things but the   point of it is um jesus empathized with everyone  he connected the woman caught in adultery etc and   the i guess the point i'm driving toward is when  we look at scripture what they fail to sometimes   recognize is we didn't write the book i mean it's  there for everybody to read so when you look at   romans 1 and romans 2 which is convicting to the  believer you know that you do these very things   that you accuse other people to talk about so be  careful when you're a hypocrite i mean that's what   that scripture is talking about and i i think  the point is we're all fallen we all fall short   of fulfilling the law and we need the grace that  jesus provides to us speak to that issue though   of how you can't tap dance around the scripture  yeah i mean it's there in plain sight especially   the new testament yeah i mean you can't but  people are trying and sort of succeeding   you have people who because of their own passions  they will accumulate for themselves teachers who   suit those passions they have these itching ears  i think the emphasis has to go back to the god of   the scriptures you know i think the scriptures are  repulsive if god is not explained as he is meaning   i think it would have been super helpful for me  if when people gave me the gospel they actually   told me about jesus they often just said repent go  to hell god is holy he requires this all of those   are true but you have not told me about the  beauty of god you have not told me about the   beauty of jesus you have not even told me about  the power that he would give me to be able to obey   you just told me to obey without power and so it's  so i think we have to get back to explaining the   bible and explaining the jesus of the bible  in the same way that the apostles did and the   prophets did in the psalmist when you look at the  way they talked about god we don't use that same   kind of language and i think we should yeah i uh  you know one of the scriptures i had the team just   pull it up first corinthians 6 9-11 let me just  read it and then you respond to it because again   we're followers of it we're not editors i remember  encountering a activist a same same-sex attracted   activist and he said when are you christians  going to get out of your hyper medieval sexual   thing and come into the 21st century and i  just smiled and i could tell it irritated him   he said why are you smiling and i said we're  we're followers of the book we're not editors   of the book it's very kind of you to want  to make me the editor but this is written   by the hand of god through people over a long  period of time and we're compelled to follow it   and i'm sorry if it offends you but i i would  suggest it could set you free and let me just   read first corinthians here it says or do you  not know that the unrighteous will not inherit   the kingdom of god do not be deceived neither the  sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor   men who practice homosexuality nor thieves nor the  greedy nor drunkards nor revilers nor swindlers   will inherit the kingdom of god and such were some  of you i mean that's the beautiful part you were   there but implying they came out of it in fact  it goes on to say but you were washed you were   sanctified you were justified in the name of the  lord jesus christ and by the spirit of our god   man we're all there yeah that's the only way  yeah and that's hopefully the compelling reason   to continue to speak lovingly yeah to people  not judgmentally jesus said i'm not here to   judge the world the father will do that yeah  that's i love that verse i've taught it a lot   one to encourage christians to when you do first  corinthians 6 9 through 10 and 11 don't leave off   11. because we land on 10. you know don't be  deceived neither sexually immoral nor dollars   nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of god  but we got to get to 11 that's where the hope   is and such were some of you but i think  another important aspect is that when paul   wrote that letter he wrote it to a church so  it is fascinating that he is telling a church   you don't be deceived about this um you know and  so i think there's so many things that we could   glean from that but i think one is  that god is able to save anybody   and jackie those are great words and again  as i started this program you're coming from   that experience you know what it felt like when  you weren't walking with the lord and what you   were battling with and that's one of the reasons i  wanted to talk with you and hear your heart you've   done the journey i've not had that journey i had a  different journey i had my own issues but i think   in this culture right now we need clear voices  and i think those that have struggled with it have   come to appreciate the love of god in their life  and moving toward that sanctification process   this is what makes you so powerful in the culture  right now your voice for god so powerful right now   i want to come back next time and continue the  discussion because we've just kind of laid the   groundwork about where you're at what you're  experiencing but we've got to hear the rest of   the story where god really uh you know exploded  in a joyful way in your life and you came back   to him or came to him um can we do that for sure  all right let's do it and man i'm telling you   guys i know you are having conversations about  this if you're not you probably should because   the culture is definitely talking about it and you  need to get a copy of jackie's great book gay girl   good god and uh this is again the kind of  information that you need to be equipped with so   you can have the discussion with a family member  with extended family with the neighbor next door   and i'm telling you help us be a part of  the ministry a gift of any amount and we'll   send you a copy of jackie hill perry's wonderful  resource as our way of saying thank you yeah jack   you've done a good job of combining your story and  weaving scripture throughout so this is a very uh   very good resource a weighty book to help you  think through this issue and if you need to talk   to somebody we do have caring christian counselors  here we all struggle we all have issues and   sometimes you just can't let go of of something or  you can't get through the hurdle call and schedule   a free consultation with one of our counselors and  they can kind of help you get some traction toward   healing and some victories in life and even refer  you to somebody in your local area our number is   800 the letter a and the word family or fill out  a counseling request form and get jackie's book   gay girl good god at focus on the family dot  com slash broadcast on behalf of jim daly and   the entire team thanks for joining us today for  focus on the family i'm john fuller inviting you   back as we once again continue the conversation  and help you and your family thrive in christ you

Channel: Focus on the Family

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Keywords: discovering the truth about my identity, truth about my identity, jackie hill perry, gay girl good god book, gay girl book, jackie hill perry book, truth about sexual identity, leaving sexual identity, sexual identity the truth, gay girl author, former lesbian jackie hill perry, lesbian saved by grace, formerly lesbian now christian, focus on the family, focus broadcast, focus on the family broadcast, focus on the family broadcast youtube

Id: GgNMz4CkHqQ

Length: 26min 56sec (1616 seconds)

Published: Tue Jun 23 2020