HOLIER THAN THOU - Podcast Interview with Jackie Hill Perry

[Applause] all right revelation wellness community this is a big day you have actually requested this guest time and time again and i said we're trying we're trying so as of today this is groundbreaking we're even upgraded our video stuff for youtube just because jackie is here you guys jackie hill perry is on the show jackie welcome to the revelation wellness podcast thank you for having me i'm super super stoked so some of you may or may not know jackie um first of all you got to follow her on instagram always a treat always a treat on the instagram never know what you're going to get from a post from jackie that's accurate actually it keeps you on your toes i love it real time um and jackie wrote her was gay girl good god your first book okay so gay girl good god great book and now she's come out with her sec well that's really your third book because jude right yeah because jude feels like a book but it's a bible study so technically this is my second book okay okay and this book is called holier than thou how god's holiness helps us to trust him first of all let me ask you do you enjoy writing books no thank you any men me either no no it's really tedious i enjoy the learning part of it and and i think writing is just a necessary evil to process through what it is that you're learning and therefore trying to communicate but i'm not a fan yeah i mean i like it's one of those things maybe somewhat like a workout for some people like i don't really love it to show up to it but then when i do it i'm like wow that's good yeah that was good look what i didn't know that was in me i didn't know i was capable of that so well you just keep showing up so jackie this book holier than thou why why this book man we need it uh we and it's not that we need my book you know because we have plenty of books about the holiness of god i think my book pushes you to consider all the others if you haven't read aw toaster or rc scroll and all these people uh but i think that where the way the culture is i'm not gonna say shifting the way the culture is and the way our hearts are i think are symptomatic of what we believe about god and i think what we need is not more books about ourselves but more books about the holy god and therefore by seeing him we do see ourselves in our right perspective and i yeah i just wanted to write something that i also felt like was i guess framed in a different way because holiness is often framed really negatively when it's just god's righteousness and our sinfulness and how we want to go to hell and it's just like man it's bigger than that yeah it's so much bigger than that that god is holy and so i don't want us to just look at holiness and a negative viewpoint because if that's the case then that's how we see god is through a negative lens paint some colors put some colors on that canvas for us for holiness that we're not seeing that you've you are highlighting well holiness again i think we've done a good job at speaking to how holiness which means separate set apart i think we've done a good job at saying god is set apart because god is morally pure god is morally righteous he is ethically clean i think we understand that that god cannot sin but it's not just that god is also set apart god is also separate and unique because he's transcendent meaning he exists differently than us and so how does that broaden our understanding of holiness it means when god says cast your cares on me because i care for you the moral purity part of that is oh he's not lying he does care for me then the transcendent part of that is because he exists differently and because he's sovereign over everything he can actually handle our cares without him even being in our room you know or being in another place it's like he exists outside of space and time yeah you have this god who's able to orchestrate your circumstances in such a way that they work out for your good a human god that one that does not transcend it could not do that for you and so that's what i mean it's just that widens your understanding to say oh if that's what it means for god to be holy then he's really really good and really really trustworthy and why do you think we miss it why do why do we not see this holiness as the captivity and the beauty of god man i i don't know i think there's a lot of reasons for that i think it's the time that we spend in our bibles i think it's the lenses we have when we get in the bible you know i think i think we've been taught in some some pastors preacher's approach to the bible is so self-centered that it's trained us to be the same way when we interact with the scriptures and so we go into the bible you know let me do my 10-minute devotional let me you know learn a little bit about but it's like we don't go into it with a an intention to say i'm going to learn about god today come on and i think if that was the motivation a lot of these things would be very plain yeah i saw you just at a conference i don't know it was but basically a conference about god like not about you like about god imagine that that we have a conference that is strange just talk about god and it's interesting because i say that because i also encounter a lot of people in this ministry and avenue god's put us in people are in pain people are really hurting people feel overwhelmed grieving just depressed and a lot of things that they do in in response to that with their bodies so i'm always holding this tension of meeting people where they're at and you know understanding there is pain without negating it but also how do we draw them up to the beauty and the match like how do we get the fix and the gaze on god to be greater any thoughts there that's a big question um but my mind went to exodus it's somewhere before chapter 19 where while the people of israel are in egypt and groaning and under the oppression of the egyptians god talks to moses about how god wants to deliver them but what precedes god's uh what perceives god's deliverance is god's awareness of their needs he says like i know the sufferings of my people i've seen it and i'm gonna come down and so i think how we model even holiness and meeting people where they are when it comes to suffering is compassion you know and embodying empathy where sometimes yes but the fix isn't merely just okay let's just go read the scripture it's me embodying that in that moment right me letting the holy spirit use me and say you know what i'm sorry and that's where we're gonna sit i'm sorry come on it feels i think for people that are like me who are super uh achievement driven it feels like it's not enough to just be there it really is it really is how did the lord meet you was there an empathy moment that the lord met you that was like oh my gosh he's greater than he's he's not the god of you know this he is a god of wrath but he's not the god that's trying to bend you and hurt you and break you was there was there in your own story was there even i think it was it your aunt or your grandmother has really could embody like some compassion or patience or something with you yeah your cousin could you tell that story um i wouldn't point to that story though as the moment i think my conversion really is the thing because yeah you know i was out here i was ratchet i was sinful i loved sin enjoyed sin promoted sin shame hung with sinners i just was a center through ever and uh when uh i was 19 i felt god speak to my heart in such a way where i saw that everything that i loved and enjoyed would bring me death which is compassion you know our society now is like no don't tell us the truth about where we're going don't tell us the truth about our condition but to withhold that truth from you is to also withhold mercy um and so i think god was being kind and compassionate and saying hey this is where you are and this is where it's going to lead for the wages of the city equals death but jesus and what came to my mind uh in that moment where me and god were wrestling for lack of other words was john 3 16 for god so loved the world that he gave his son so that all who believe in him will not perish but have eternal life and it was like wow like god is god is saying turn from the sin and don't turn towards yourself like okay let me fix myself let me be this morally you know great person on my own strength but rather god is like no turn towards me and we'll work the rest out and so i think that's when i first was introduced to the the compassion of god is when he met me where i was and told me the right place to go and don't you think you know it's i always say that you know it's god because god only god can confront us convict us and yet comfort us and not condemn us like there's this no one else give your aunt or someone else says it you know that there's i don't know i think there's always a resistance when it comes out of human mouth but when there's revelation which is why we're the ministry is called revelation wellness because there's an element of wellness that and i know wellness is an overused term but to be well with our soul to be well with our mind that has to come from god revelation of who god is not out of all these blogs and things i've read about so i i what in that moment when you were wrestling with him was there anyone else around were you like what was that moment in your room and you just felt like god yeah it was legitimately not to like uh you know connect myself with paul like i'm somebody special but it felt like a damascus moment i'm headed towards a particular direction with no intention of wanting or loving god and he interrupts that my world without my permission without any foresight that this is going to happen and it completely redirects me towards life and so that's what you put like with no help no altar call no nothing and that's what the holy spirit does he goes where he wants and he saves what he wants when he wants how he wants and so uh i think it's a beautiful thing to say man even if you don't go to church god will get to you anyway that's a good word right there especially for all the people that carry a heavy yoke of all the religion not religious but feeling like people are going to hell and like it's our responsibility to turn them sorry yeah i think it's our joy to pray like and this just always reminds me somebody prayed that moment for you jackie like some people have prayed and prayed and prayed and knocked and knocked until that moment of awakening for you just so so ridiculously holy okay so what is the difference between gay girl good god that book and this book and what's similar what what connects the similarity is the [Music] is that in all of my work one of my aims that undergirds everything is to present the beauty of god in such a way that it engages your affections yeah um and so i'm always trying to to lift god up really high and say no like yeah he's good he's this so that's that's the same i think the difference is it's more theologically forward uh because it's a doctrine um yeah dealing with it it's a it's an attribute of god and so there's much more theology much more uh exegetical work when it comes to certain passages uh but i think if you read gay girl god it will read and feel the same um and you'll see growth because i mean i wrote gay girl good god what was that six years ago crazy so good do you love uh learning let me ask you i know you must love learning now but did you always love learning i always loved learning about what i wanted to learn about hmm so in school i was terrible i was terrible the only reason i graduated is because i had a friend who had access to the teacher's computer and he changed all my grades to aids come on it's the only reason the only reason i graduated uh so yeah but it took me a while to realize oh it's not that you don't want to learn is that you just don't like learning about things that you don't like about yeah geometry and all i don't i don't care but when it's something i care about i i go deep okay and so you're you're in seminary school now correct i am yeah how's that going um it's on one hand it's fun because it's like you've been introduced to ideas and thought processes in a higher way uh yeah in a way that's you just can't kind of get at home uh it's hard in light of everything that i have going on and so part of me feels like you jackie you being crazy it's like i mean why not do it now why not that's one more thing if you all may or may not know jackie has three girls under the age of five six good gracious and she's pregnant right now with her fourth and it was an epic moment we all watched on baited breath prayed on our bent knee with preston for the boy and everyone we got the boy the boy is coming it's so exciting how is the pregnancy going it's fine it's harder than the other my first two only because uh i'm five months pregnant and my youngest is nine months and so my body hasn't had the time to heal and so it feels like i'm just stacking injury on top like legitimate injury on top of the injury and so it's difficult but it's only all it's only ten months all the time and you're how far along right now five months five months okay when it's all done and you're ready to engage your body you come talk to me i'm happy and give you all the love and care and tenderness pelvic floor therapist yes you will have that for she will need that for sure all right well speaking of the body i mentioned before we got going this community revelation wellness really is is for many who have struggled and they're obsessed neglect with their body relation to their body if i ask you this question what does holiness have to do with our body what would you say everything come on we're embodied beings you know like we're not these spirits that just float around without some type of physical reality containing it and so i think when jesus says or god says um what is it uh something about your submit your body as a living sacrifice holy employee yeah and then in thessalonians this is the will of the lord that you would not uh that's sexual immorality but then it's just the tongue and talking in james yeah renew your mind yeah all the things whatever you do whatever you eat or drink do it to the glory of god like all of all of what we do is is with our bodies and so it's a huge deal and what's that has there been a um because of the lifestyle that you once were in enjoying and sinful life is there continually like a re learning or healing that the lord is doing for you because so many people here in this community have had many diverse stories of where their bodies been how they've engaged it used it sexual immorality violation things that have almost and we know that paul says that it's then when we sin um with the body it's a sin against the body so one of the separates us in a sense from ourselves how has that journey been for you and what's been some maybe some big things that you've learned and could share with other people that feel a little still disconnected to their where they've been in their body and to where they are now i have never had that question before i know welcome to this community no i love it it's fascinating so that i say that because i don't know how good the answer will be um you got the holy spirit in you yeah i had the process a little bit um i think one i started watching porn for example when i was around seven yep and then i was sexually abused probably between five and six i don't remember how old i was yeah and so you already have the sexual component which is sexual abuse on top of sexual perversion that you're ingesting and so i think coming to christ it's and it was and still is this reorienting of my mind to to say like the images you saw are not real life you know one of the fascinating things about porn that i didn't understand is that i didn't know that porn was rewiring rewiring my brain yes understand sex a particular way but also my body that my body is not good enough beautiful enough uh sexy enough uh like the ones that i saw but i think abuse also makes me want to guard my body where i'm triggered really easily by touch and intimacy and all those things so like in marriage there's this i'm walking through therapy where it's like okay all touch is not harmful yeah you know like there are some people that you can be willing or not willing you can make yourself willing to open up and say okay you can touch me and it's a safe place for that to happen so i guess i don't know i guess that's where i am yeah it's unfolding i just i think thank you for sharing that because you know people think you've got it figured out look at you write books and you have all this stuff i've never written a book about uh sexual abuse and things because i don't i don't it's too it's too much of a constant thing for me yeah yeah right constantly in a process of relearning everything and i feel the same way my my story isn't you know same as yours but the exposure to pornography our line family of sexual immorality and licentiousness and so it's it's it's this grace of god by the grace of god jackie i'm not divorced i am not like all these these the statistics that i should have been absolutely by the grace of god but i think that um people just need to know that it's you're not alone and god is great good and this is why holiness back to the holiness and i know you know this that holiness also would mean wholeness like the shalom the completion of who god is the completeness of who he is that we find our completeness in him so i just really encourage everyone like this this pursuit of holiness is a delight something that we can delight in and even though it feels maybe like a discipline and you feel like you're getting it wrong that just as you just show up every day to you know do the best you can with what you got there's so much more that god wants to give us in in the revelation of holiness and i do think it's a timely message so who should who should read this book uh everyone that the lord leads to do so it feels like a pitch to say everyone that's how the lord leads read it um but yeah because when i was thinking when i was writing the book i wasn't thinking of academics and scholars and all those i was just thinking about the regular jane and john's uh who want to know god more and who recognize that the knowledge that they have of him right now is is not enough that there's there's so much to know but also those who say man there's this area in my life where i really want to trust god and i don't you know and so what what holier than thou is offering you is another object by which to hold or clean your faith too because i read in this commentary one time it said faith needs an object and and that's the tension of not reading and studying the nature of god is that your faith has nothing to cling to and so i think what this book will offer is resources and scriptures and perspectives on the person of god where our faith can now have yeah some of the clutch jackie how do you renew your mind i know you're going to say read god's word but is there there are other ways like is there i know it's god's word but sometimes do you ever feel there's other aspects or ways that you find and encounter the voice of god and not just as in his written word it's a lot of the bible um and not just reading it but thinking about it yeah you're really good at getting us to ask questions and not questions that keep asking more questions right because if we just always ask questions we get into some of these deconstruction mentalities right so it's like what's the line of asking the question to then receiving the answer i think curiosity is human yeah you know i think there's something there's something really good about being curious because if we weren't curious what we ever learned no um but i think the the curiosity isn't the problem it's the heart it's the motives it's why are we asking are we asking to know are we asking for evidence and fuel to accuse that's a whole nother situation that's good that's right but i i think for me renewing my mind is it it really is reading the scriptures thinking them over asking questions of it but people like people who love god and are thoughtful they do a big like i just a lot of the ways in which my mind has changed it's just been in conversation with other christians you know like they'll just say the smallest thing and it was just like huh yeah that's good so i i think that's a huge way and even uh worship music yeah music music like bypasses all your guards and it's just easy you you know yeah it's not like a lot it's just you just put it on it's like oh they keep saying god is faithful 22 times and he is faithful like by the 19th time by the night i got it it clicks it's so true yeah i know and i see it do you fill your home with uh worship music often did you just feel it uh nice house i had i used to i think when i was freer you mean freer oh freer in the sense of being pregnant makes everything harder and so i'm less i'm less jubilant in the mornings that's what i mean don't want to hear praise music right now i don't i just i just want to order ubereats to get some bunches but typically my car or if when i'm in the shower or like you will rarely see me without music playing at some point it's just it helps my brain yeah i've seen you wag your finger at some some gospel letters i'm i love it and i can feel you like yes and i'm right there with you i'm the same way to my soul oh i'm just totally the same way of continually there's just music and like if it's not music then i do appreciate silence and solitude as well are you a silence kind of gal rarely rarely because i i am introverted but silence in and of itself makes me think of everything i have to do yeah and so i think i do have to i have to find how to how to be silent without allowing my brain to control the way i experience the silence yeah which i've never thought about until you asked me that question well i invite you to find that with the lord because i used to be i'm the same way the silence scared them out of me growing up in my home there was always tv was always on mom would go to sleep with tv on wake up tvs always this noise so i never could really be just sit in silence and then the lord just kind of broke me down of this need for people or noise or whatever now and maybe it's just i'm old 50 50 years old you know i could use some quiet you all need to shut it just get some quiet oh it's so good okay now i'm going to ask you some fun questions um what's your favorite way to move your body when you had a body that wasn't being rented out that's a good word uh favorite maybe on a vacation okay so going to a place okay um but when it came to act activities and stuff like that i used to run um about three to five miles a day and nobody told me that uh i should probably do weights for my do something else yeah because i i actually found out i haven't been able to run in two or three years and i finally went and got an mri and found out that i had runner's knee yeah so i didn't know that was a thing yeah you can yeah in jesus name there's definitely some healing and cross-training you can do a good thing it's not like torn meniscus or things like that but yeah i have a trainer who's been giving me every lateral workout there yes and foam rolling are you film rolling do you do that i don't like that one why the lighting like a little horror foam that you put on your back and you roll back and forth yes it feels uncomfortable do you get massages rarely okay second again so yeah i don't want them i just don't think about it oh man okay how about your um favorite like activewear line if you're gonna do you wear yoga pants amazon whatever is whatever is the amazon bestseller seriously it's the crz brand it's crz on amazon it's like 20 bucks i am convinced that it's the same material that lululemon uses probably because lulu is is up there ain't she no it's not it's not amazon price no but i'm telling you i've done done my comp compare and contrast and that cr it's called crz but yeah on amazon the yoga do you so do you will you put on the yoga pants or your sweatpants kind of girl not i'm leggings yeah so whatever i prefer leggings that have like little pockets on the side that i can put myself on because you feel crazy when you go to the gym and it's like okay where i'm gonna put this phone you need a fanny pack i i i don't have one i get them with the pockets on the side and then i know it's like how did it take us so long to figure out let's throw some pockets just a little sling right that's kind of important yeah i use the same thing and then um finally your uh go-to drink coffee tea kombucha or something else what's your fave coffee and water water equal parts throughout the day no because coffee when i'm pregnant too it's i started to get the jitters but i'm pretty much just in general since high school i've been a just water drinker i don't drink juice soda uh none of that only when i'm pregnant will i start to uh drink a lot of ginger ale because it just makes my stomach feel bad yeah but in general water is the thing good job that's my i have a son he's 20 years old to this day he has not had soda punched he just drinks water and milk i'm like please get some something to grow your bones that's it oh man all right what's up what's next for jackie hill perry what are you gonna do what what's the lord calling to you besides birth a child dot dot deal there yeah child uh school starts in a couple of weeks for me and my daughter um i have an event called glory uh that we've just begun doing it where i just teach on the holiness of god uh from there i'm gonna start recording an audio bible uh version of the esv bible for crossway i saw that that's so awesome yes what to get to i'm really nervous why because the bible's really long it's a lot of words there's a lot of words a lot of names you have to pronounce yes i i think that's gonna take most of the time it's not even read the bible it's getting the pronunciation of these hebrew names down but you can read a little cheat sheet phonetics just oh yeah i'm gonna go on youtube [Laughter] that'll be amazing though i have all the things on the lineup but i think what's most important is that i've also been eliminating a lot of stuff so i've been trying to take a survey of my life and saying oh come on what things can get cut because i i can't i can't i may be a i may be gifted to do all of them come on but i don't have the margin to do all of them some got to go some got to give so i'm i'm cutting a lot good for you and it's funny to say that that feels like an affirmation of the holy spirit for me because i've done doing that same thing you know even yesterday i had just a big day of meetings and things and things and things and then my day was kind of done and i sat in silence because my kids are out of the house i'm an empty nester now so it's like i've got i know girl it'll happen it sounds so quiet it's so quiet yeah and i sat there and quiet and then this thought was you should go write more of the book or you should the shoulding kind of showed up and i was like i'm not i'm going to do nothing i'm going to read a book that i wanted to read and that felt like a violent act of no i'm if i have margin i don't need to fill it so i'm in that same place of taking out things that i don't know how i said yes to them stacked them up but i feel you on that so awesome way to go the go-getter culture is killing us oh come on yeah did you read john mark comer's book ruthless elimination of hurry have you heard of that one didn't but i need to write it ruthless elimination of hurry it's a good read he talks about uh the the sickness called hurried sickness it's like something we all have right now and uh yeah it's it's a good book good easy you want to know a funny funny story huh tell me uh i was at i went to trader joe's once and uh a big part of my personality is also my mother my mother's a very uh this type of woman so like for example if she says be ready at five she's in the car at 4 40. so she doesn't really mean five and so that's in my brain as always i'm always rushing yeah i'm just late to rush about right yeah i said trader joe's and i had this cart and i was just walking really fast and i really felt like the lord was like why are you rushing wow and so i just like you're right and so i just started to walk through the grocery store if this sounds so small and take my time come be okay with that i was like wow i never take my time everything feels like i have to get this over with and i think it's it's doing something to our anxiety yeah emotional health and our mind absolutely absolutely did you know in in one day we receive more information in one day than someone who lived in the middle ages did in their entire life are you serious true statement that's a lot of what we teach here is just this anxiety and depression of the input of information our brains are overwhelmed and so we feel disconnected and we feel anxious because we're just going and it's not a bad thing right information is good but hey what tree did we eat from right yeah knowledgeable like we're just a lot going on and it's absolutely proven chronic stress changes the shape size well yeah shape size organization and structure of our brain so you can have all the knowledge but be actually kind of punching yourself in the brain and wondering why do i not have peace i know god but i feel like feel that phonetic energy so well done like i want to just i'm going to walk i'm going to slow down i think we're just living in a time that god's people that can do that i mean right look at the israelites they did not enter the rest because of their unbelief there's something we just just we drink from that cistern not knowing that it's not one of real pure peace and calm i used to read the old testament the new testament with jesus and i used to think he seemed so aloof you know like what's so sup like why don't you be more like let's go oh he's just peace he is not he refuses to punt on his agency for urgency or like he just i want that like whatever that is jesus that's true give me that in my old age all right um where do they get the book jackie uh you can go to holier than thou book.net and you can get it there amazon has been shipping them out pretty early so and honestly i i would get both books get gay girl good god if you haven't read it especially in the culture we're living in now pretty topsy-turvy when we here think and consider the body and so i know you guys listener would love that book tried to get her on way back then but she was too busy you're too busy for me back then you see that that's funny maybe i don't know so i think you're just everyone was one and wanting lots of jackie hill perry and we still want it so now we have this book you guys holding down so get them both follow her on instagram tell her you heard her on the revelation wellness podcast and we're all going to be rooting for your pelvic floor oh yeah yes lord let's go kegels right now everyone let's do a kegel in honor of jackie go there i did it that was the quickest ganger in the world it's a good one that's true all right jackie thanks again for hanging out with us today and um we're all things jackie so whatever you do again we're watching and we'd love to talk to you at any time i appreciate that i i enjoyed this conversation thanks sister we'll talk soon no problem [Applause] you

Channel: Revelation Wellness

Views: 4,705

Keywords: Jackie Hill Perry, Holier Than Thou, Revelation Wellness, Podcast, wellness, the wellness revelation, revelation wellness, alisa keeton, faith and fitness, faith fitness, faith, fitness, christian, biblical teaching, bible, new book release, good body gals, mindfulness, health, healthy lifestyle, mental health, emotional health, book talk, new book

Id: wBg3_pPI7vc

Length: 35min 55sec (2155 seconds)

Published: Thu Aug 19 2021