Debunking The Pre-Trib Rapture With Joel Richardson

foreign welcome to the wonderful world of Remnant radio today we're talking about the pre-trib Rapture we're going to attempt to debunk it we got Joe Richardson with us it's going to be an exciting program you guys stay tuned see I clicked the button and it didn't it didn't do the thing you were watching The Remnant radio a crowdfunded show where we interview pastors teachers historians and theologians from different churches and nominations my name is Joshua Lewis and this is my co-host Michael Roundtree together we want to help you break outside of your theological Echo Chambers if you're interested in learning about history theology or the gifts of the Spirit this is the show for you you know it's just kind of the nature of going live onto YouTube sometimes you can't push the button in time you know it's just it's fun things but if you guys are watching radio for the very first time I want to remind you we're crowdfunded if you want to support the channel there's links in the description you can do that make sure to hit the Subscribe button make sure to like the video because we're coming out with content like this every single week uh before I introduce these fellas over here that I'm quite excited to introduce I want to remind you guys about the remnant 2023 uh conference on healing and deliverance you need to go check that out there's links in the description if you want to go to that conference I've realized that all of my Graphics are just displaced there's a new update to the software so everything's everywhere check out the links in the description you can go check that out we're gonna be talking about healing and deliverance at that conference in North Carolina so if you're in the area want to register uh I don't know that we have any like a ton of spots but you should go check out and see if we do uh Roundtree how are you today are you is there is it safe I'm good I'm wondering like with that graphic it was back in the day when I had a little uh facial hair and Josh I feel I feel like you're subtly trying to like get me to grow facial hair again because there's also like the remnant Radio logo is like two dudes with facial hair and so like do you have a problem with my with my face well Joel will explain to you um how it's necessary to have facial hair to be a man of God and he will that will be one of his first introduction points Michael you'll you'll figure it out soon enough in fact when Joel hopped on the call before the show I said Joel your hairier than the last time I saw you so um yeah Joey been growing the beard out on little bit you know there's not a single Prophet or a man of God in the Bible that uh has a clean shaven face and that's that's amen facts I'm kind of outside the bounds here really so uh you know maybe I should take a look I mean both of you guys are are really instructing me today so I appreciate that uh so actually no I'm real excited uh to have Joel Richardson on the show Joel's a friend and uh he and I have uh have connected really ever since you came on that first episode and we talked about the Islamic Antichrist several years ago maybe it's like 2020 or something like that and uh great episode encourage you guys to watch that and uh so Joe and I have just kind of stayed in touch but uh Joel is one who does his research and uh and we always love to have you on the show so excited to talk a little bit about pre-trib Rapture Joel I'd seen you on on the twitters uh tweeting quite a bit about it and I just thought well we should have Joel on the show talk about pre-trib Rapture now River radio we have people from all perspectives we've had Jimmy Evans arguing in favor of the pre-trib Rapture and and you're going to go the other way on it so um excited to kind of hear what you have to say and and digest that a little bit and wrestle through it so uh so yeah really excited to have you on the show Joel uh could you take maybe a moment tell us a little bit about yourself and uh and maybe any books or projects you're working on right now so I think most folks know me primarily as an author um I tender and Minister I work with a few different missions organizations that work mostly in the Middle East um in the underground Church in Iran that's Global catalytic Ministries um another Ministry that works in Iraq Syria throughout the Middle East is Frontier Alliance International so I would I would say I'm a missions guy at heart but publicly I'm probably more known for talking about the end times the return of Jesus uh and these type of things and I've written quite a bit on that as well um my passion more than anything is the return of Jesus and um preparing the church for what I genuinely believe are the difficulties ahead okay all right uh seeing family members daughter dog walking in the background so fun times uh well hey let's just let's just jump in here Josh is that you are you laughing no my mic's muted I'm a professional okay so uh so Joel Let's uh let's jump in okay so pre-trib Rapture why have you been tweeting about this so much lately why is this so much on your mind I know you're big on you know return of Christ and and all of that but why is this for you not just one of those like you know what let's just all kind of get along you believe in a pre-trib I believe in a post-trib you know at the end of the day Jesus is coming back and like this is a major deal too you want to talk to us a little bit about that and why like it's just been stirring inside of you especially especially recently but more than recently too well first of all let me just say this um I have always avoided the topic specifically because of what you said I don't want to talk about something that's too divisive um or controversial or this type of thing you know my kids are running around I'm also a father by the way I did mention that of both people and pets but um and let me just say this too with regard to Twitter um I often use Twitter as kind of a sounding board a lot of people don't understand um I'd say the way that I approach Twitter and I sometimes I take it very seriously but sometimes I throw things out there sort of shots across the bow so to speak because I don't want to just understand what the those who are teaching a particular issue teach I want to know what the average late how does how is it received by the average person out there in the congregation because that's just as important as how it's sort of taught from the books and podiums and so I often use Twitter as a way to sort of draw out from you know what the public believes so sometimes people go like I don't like the way you behave on Twitter and I go there's actually a specific strategy to it um but I'll say this you know as I chat with different friends and ministers I made a comment recently I said you know it's been over 10 years now that we've been saying that were in the 1930s you know we've been saying that we're in the 1930s for more than a decade now and I think the past two years have turned a lot of um Skeptics quite frankly to conspiracy theorists um it's been a it's been a very unusual I say two years the past three years really with covid and in so many different ways just it's been a very disorienting time for a lot of people but here's what I would say the reason that I'm finally going after this very um aggressively is because specifically when I look at the warnings in scripture when you look at the warnings of Jesus and the all of the discourse he defines the last days primarily as a time of tremendous deception and then he says in Matthew 24 verse 9 he says at that time many will fall away from the faith and so to me this is one of the greatest uh most terrifying statements in all of scripture to say that many so he actually says and the love of most will grow cold and so when I look at the the dogmatism uh with which the pre-tribulation Rapture is frequently taught not everyone not every teacher but the majority you teach it they don't teach it as well here is one of a few options it's most often taught as absolute I mean almost it's it's almost right up there with some of the essentials um of the faith I personally believe that a large segment of the body of Christ is in tremendous danger legitimate pastoral Danger and so by going after the pre-tribulational Rapture as I'm beginning to do um in teaching yeah I'm going to lose a lot of friends quite frankly I'm going to lose a lot of you know I'm an itinerant Minister there'll be different Ministries and churches that will break ties with me and this sort of thing and I'm okay with that um I think this is one of the Premier pastoral issues of our day I believe that we very well may I'm not making predictions but we may be the generation that will actually live to see The Return of Jesus and if that's the case I mean this is not just a um it's not a theoretical issue it's not just sort of uh end time prophetic trivia something it'll all just pan out I mean the bottom line is if indeed as the body of Christ we step into that final period before the return of Jesus if the Antichrist himself emerges you will have a vast segment of the body of Christ that will not only just be tremendously disappointed that will be profoundly disillusioned that will absolutely completely lose all faith in any pre-tribulational teachers but they will be set up for potential shipwreck in a really dramatic way and deception quite frankly um when I talk with a lot of creatures even teachers and pastors and I use this term deliberately very knowingly but there's a cognitive dissonance there's there's actually a very strong I would say cultic mentality it often it reminds me of when I talk to Mormon Jehovah's Witnesses I go this is the complete disconnect from what the text clearly says what the scriptures Clearly say and what you say it says and to me when I see that level of deception when I see that level of determined refusal to acknowledge what the Bible says I say there is a legitimate demonic stronghold here in the body of Christ and you know as I said I'm not going to make any friends by making these type of statements they're great men and women of God teachers friends of mine that believe in pre-trivulational Rapture but I think being pastorally responsible in this hour requires us to call out this Doctrine for what it is it's a novel modern uh completely unbiblical doctrine that has no support in the scriptures of whatsoever so Joel let me just jump on the tail end of that I'm I am no eschatology buff like you and Michael Roundtree um I I what I do know about eschatology is that I wouldn't hold my or wouldn't find myself in a pre-tribulation Rapture for some of the reasons you stated it's novel there's new interpretations this is this has not been around historically as far as I could dig around it doesn't seem to be a very long-standing tradition within the Christian church and additionally there seems to be passage of scripture that that seem strongly contradictory to this position but but let me just ask you this Joel um would you place this as a tertiary issue like you wouldn't if you're a pastor of a church you know you're not excommunicating people for being a pre-trib Rapture person you're not um you know you're not you're not calling people out on Twitter saying hey if you don't repent of this you know we're going to have nothing to do with you you're not saying that this is a tier one salvation level issue but you're saying this is a tier two issue that is actually really important and is going to affect people's long-term walk as persecution begins to ramp up is that is that what I hear you saying I just want to make sure for the audience I can I can you know compartmentalize and then regurgitate what you're saying in a way that you know I can sound bite wise people grasp how important you think this doctor knows yeah I appreciate that I I would prefer that you mirror it back to me rather than regurgitate it but look I don't judge um it's reflex man I'm drinking coffee you know just you never know this is by no means is this an issue that I would ever divide with anyone over when I talk about those who hold the pre-tribulation Rapture these are my brothers and sisters um again very good friends of mine men and teachers that I highly respect that said this is a doctrine that genuinely has the potential to do tremendous damage potential even lead people into losing their faith the actual shipwreck of their fate and so it's important um to me this would be one of the dumbest doctrines imaginable to divide over although I do frequently hear of people who are actually asked to leave their churches because they don't believe in the pre-tribulation rapture um so you know there are people who do divide over it I think that's really silly I mean I've been banned you know by numerous Ministries over the years because of my pre-trib um and that's fine but it is a very pastorally relevant issue look the bottom line is I hold to the post-trib uh or pre-wrap probably kind of a hybrid between the pre-wrath and post reposition but the historical I mean historical three millennialist I believe that will be raptured when Jesus returns now if I'm wrong and there is pre-tribulational Rapture worst case for me worst case I'll be pleasantly surprised but for those who are pre-trib if they're wrong as I said the potential for a vast number of Christians not just to be disappointed but to be tremendously disillusioned potentially wide open for deception in the Shipwreck of their faith that is a very legitimate real pastoral concern that should that should terrify pastors out there who are teaching this you're muted Still Still muted my bad Josh you're the professional one uh you talk about uh clear biblical case and uh maybe you could begin making that and and maybe just like point one we could pause and talk about it point two we could pause and talk about it but maybe we could just begin to walk through your case for a post-tribulational Rapture where would you begin that argument biblically so biblically I would just Begin by saying that literally every single verse in the Bible that makes any reference to the Rapture places to the tribulation uh in the Olivet discourse Matthew 24 and verse 29 Jesus says immediately after the tribulation of those days and then he lifts the cosmic signs the sun will be dark and the moon will not give its light Etc and then it says and then they will see the son of man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory and he will send forth his angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together his elect from the Four Winds from one into the sky to the other so he describes the Rapture now our pre-tribulational brothers and sisters will say this has nothing to do with the Rapture they'll say this is only for Israel this is only for the Jews it's not for the church and I say here's Jesus's sermon on the end times are you trying to tell me he never even mentions the rapture and that's what they'll say they'll say no this part of the scripture is not even for us it's only for Israel and this is what dispensationalism does is they literally break up the New Testament into sections well this is for us this is not for us this is for Israel this is for the church it's actually very similar to what the Jehovah's Witnesses do the Jehovah's Witnesses say well this part of the New Testament is for the great crowd and this part of the New Testament is for the 144 000 anointed class they have these very strange categories and quite frankly they rob Christians of applying very critical important parts of scripture to themselves they say let's not for us that's for someone else or that's for the tribulation Saints but when the scriptures speak when they speak clearly it always places the Rapture as being part of the return of Jesus the Rapture the resurrection and the return of Jesus are always intertwined and portrayed as One Singular event okay now so oh go ahead uh sure all right so I'm gonna I I can I can hear my dispensational pre-trib friends chirping in my ear right now so I want to represent them well Joel and offer the sort of pushback I could imagine them them saying Okay so let's take the all of a discourse Matthew 24 he begins like you know uh these signs are gonna happen and Kingdom against Kingdom and Nation against Nation Ward famine and all these things at the beginning of birth pains then you see the abomination of desolation and uh and of course that's the the abomination of desolation that's the beginning of the tribulation so the Saints are gone and to your point he's not mentioned any sort of of rapture yet but I can hear the the pre-tribulational Rapture folks saying but he does mention in Matthew 24 when he gets to no one knows the day or the hour and he says for as were the days of Noah so we'll be at the coming of the son of a man for in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking and marrying and giving in marriage until the day when Noah entered the Ark and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away so it will be at the coming of the son of man two will be in a field one will be taken the other left Etc and so they'll they'll look at that and say that's the Rapture and and they would they would also say like these other like massive signs and Cosmic disturbances and and and like there's so much going on on the earth like that sounds different they would say qualitatively then people are getting married and just having a good time it doesn't sound like a tribulation whenever you get to the no one knows the day or the hour but then when you get to after the days of those tribulation and the Abomination desolation the Antichrist is risen up and so on and so they'll in other words they'll say this part of Matthew 24 is about the Rapture this part of Matthew's 24 is not about the Rapture it's about the tribulation and so on uh what would be your response to uh to that sort of pushback so look I could work through the gospels and unbelievers do this Skeptics do this and they say well here's one part of the gospel and here's the other account notice that Matthew's account has differences to Mark's account or Luke's account and on the surface there does seem to be differences but as we know when two different people tell the same story oftentimes there are differences in the descriptions in these seeming differences are very easy to reconcile well likewise this is what they do they look at different passages and they try to impose differences they say well this seems to be a little bit different than this and this seems to be and therefore it must and it's bad logic it could be you know they're right there could be a difference there but it doesn't demand a difference they say well this demands that there must be a pre-tribulational Rapture separated by seven years in all of a discourse this is what Jesus says very early on because again at the very beginning he just says you know you'll hear of Wars rumors of course he doesn't say anything about a Rapture but what he does say in verse 9 is this he says then they will deliver you to tribulation and they will kill you and you will be hated by All Nations because of my name that's the name of Jesus now again our free trip brothers and sisters will say this entire passage is not for us so when you ask him you go well Jesus said to his disciples this is for you and they'll say well yeah but they were Jews they were Messianic Jews and so Jesus here is actually only talking about tribulation Saints those who get saved after the Rapture during and I just go that's just such a like I'm sorry but that's just such a silly explanation it's just very strange Jesus is talking to his disciples he says you I'm going to receive that warning as applicable to myself as a disciple and they'll say no you don't need to you don't need to heed that warning because it's not for you that's only for those who get safe after the Rapture but there's no mention of a Rapture where you say it happens the only place that actually describes the Rapture In this passage is verse 29-30 31 and yes again later he says it's going to be like this in the days of Noah in other words people will be going about their life they'll be continuing to do things like get married and so forth the unbelievers many of them will and look you know this is just the way mankind is we have sort of a um uh what's the term sort of uh determination to snap back into normalcy you know when the United States was bombing Baghdad 50 of people were still driving to work that day you know there's a degree to where people are determined to pursue life as normal and yes there's a lot of apocalyptic language used to describe the last days there'll be all sorts of cosmic signs and obviously it gets worse toward the end but the idea that be nothing but this Mad Max hellscape and people won't still be going about their lives is not to take into consideration the full description that the Lord uh in the description used with regard to the last days so is it your understanding that the taken that takes place in this passage where one is taken is the same as in Noah's day they were Swept Away in judgment the one is taken is not one that's being raptured up to heaven rather it's one who's receiving uh the brunt in of tribulation in such a way that they die and pass away yeah this is a thing there's a tremendous debate regarding um which is which and I think I'll be honest video I think the pre-tributors some of them make a really good case that those who are taken could be those who are taken and saved um and then others make a good case that those who are taken to those who are taken away in judgment so to be honest with you I don't have a real strong opinion on that okay so one of the uh one of the arguments that dispensationals uh will often make they'll appeal to the Jewish uh wedding ritual and tie that to John 14. uh could you talk us through maybe that argument and just your response to it yeah let's begin with John 14 verse one through three because this is one of the more common texts that are preacher brothers and sisters will quote um Jesus says look I'm going away but I'm going to prepare a place for you um In My Father's House are the King James says many mansions um if we're not so I would have told you and then he says but I will come back and receive you to myself so that where I am you will be so they'll say well clearly Jesus went away to heaven to prepare mansions for us and he's going to come back and take us to be where he is from a now that sounds like it makes sense again from a Christian perspective who's not really familiar with the language that's used here throughout the Bible throughout the scriptures uh my father's house or the house of God is referring to the temple and so you have other statements that Jesus makes for example in Matthew 19 he tells his disciples he says I tell you the truth you have followed me in the Regeneration in other words in the resurrection when the son of man comes back and restores orally sits on his throne of Glory or his glorious throne in other words the Throne of his father David that he will restore he says you will sit on 12 Thrones with me judging the 12 tribes of Israel so Jesus says after I come back you're going to sit and says to his disciples you'll sit on 12 Thrones with me judging the 12 tribes of Israel now in John 14 he says in my father's house are many and that by the way the word is not Mansions that's only in the King James it simply means Rose or spaces so any Jew in the first century when he hears the phrase my father's house in fact every time that phrase is used in the New Testament it refers to the temples he says you know to his mother and father he says you should have known that it would be in my father's house you know why if you turn to my father's house into a den of Thieves you know you're selling all these things so basically what he's saying is he goes when I come back I'm going to come back and receive you to myself so that where I am you will be and where does Jesus say he will be when he returns he'll be on the earth he'll restore the Throne of his father David he'll be in Zion this is the city that I have chosen where my feet will dwell and so all he's actually saying is he's saying I'm going away to heaven and in Hebrews 9 it tells us exactly what he did he entered into the more perfect Tabernacle and he sealed the New Covenant with his with his blood um in the Heavenly Tabernacle and so he seals he guaranteed our future inheritance and he says I'm coming back the Bible says there's only one coming and he will descend in the same way that he went up Acts 1. the angel said in the same way that you saw him go up in the clouds he's coming back he's not coming down grabbing a bunch of people and boomeranging boomeranging back up to heaven he's coming down the Bible says we will meet him in the clouds and then we will continue to escort him as he descends to the Earth and so you know it's a bit different than what most Christians have been taught that Jesus is just going to receive us we're going to go away to Heaven forever and the scriptures don't teach a Heavenly Destiny for believers rather they teach a redeemed Cosmos so if you simply use biblical language in that text it doesn't support a pre-trib Rapture at all it supports a simply an Earthly resurrection now with regard to Jewish wedding rituals because pre-tribbers have literally not a single verse in the Bible to support their position they have to look primarily to types and shadows in the Old Testament they'll say well what about Noah what about lot or Enoch or this sort of thing or they look outside of the Bible and they'll say well if you look at Jewish wedding rituals they seem to validate imminency the idea that we won't know the day or the hour and therefore if we truly understand Jewish wedding rituals then we'll understand that hidden intuous wedding rituals are the key to understand that we'll be raptured beforehand the problem is one they oftentimes uh make up aspects of Jewish wedding rituals that don't exist that you will not find in your Bible background commentaries or biblical encyclopedias and this sort of thing you just won't find it they literally make up Traditions that don't exist that we have no evidence for to try to validate specifically a pre-trib rapture um and again you don't ever want to face any particular Doctrine on some you know whether it be the Mayan calendar or some extra biblical prophecy or Jewish wedding rituals you want Doctrine to be based on the scriptures if outside sources uh add weight something okay wonderful but this often becomes the source that people say I believe in the creature of rapture specifically because of what I have been told about Jewish wedding rituals and quite frankly some of the teachers who are teaching these things are actually making stuff up out of thin air they're actually being dishonest Joel can you give me some Source material for that I grew up in a classical Pentecostal church and in the Assemblies of God in particular and the assemblies is they require pre-tribulation Rapture as a belief system to be a part of that denomination and one of the things I was often you know was was uh having having my focus drawn to is these these feasts and there was these little pamphlets and booklets that would would you know go around and they would explain hey uh this marriage would take place in this way and this is representative of how Christ is going to return um can you maybe just speak into hey he's going away to prepare a place for us and then he's going to snatch us up and that some how somehow that has to do with the the way that the Jewish people would have understood the text so so there's you're saying there's this new doctrine that or this new historical background literature that doesn't really exist and that is being imposed onto the text and people are I suggesting this tradition in the ceremony over the text of scripture in order to come to a pre-tribulation Rapture position this is I mean it's news to me I've heard the the wedding thing for a long time can you maybe shed some light like um who who out there right now is very popular and is saying that this is all about uh you know a symbolism within a marriage and and and and is pushing that without Source material can you maybe draw our attention to people who are doing this right now sure so for example there was a very popular film it's alleged by the filmmakers to have been the number one Christian film of 2020 um it was called before the Wrath and the film interviews um uh Jack Hibbs uh amir's party a couple very well-known names particularly in the Calvary Chapel movement um uh JD farage is another uh Calvary Chapel Pastor and um Jan Motel a very popular radio host so they're the probably oh and another um the main voice actually in the film is a another Calvary Chapel Pastor named Jay mcfarl so the film claims that the key to understanding the end times would have been to understood that Galilean Jewish wedding rituals are distinct very different from other Jewish wedding rituals this is actually the premise of the entire film they say that recently discovered anthropological uh discoveries have shed new light they've shaken the very core of the theological community and again all of the voices in the film validate this they go of course the disciples would have understood when Jesus said this or that of course they would have understood it to be referring to it Galilean wedding ritual well I've reached out to the creator of the film uh Brent Miller Jr I've reached out to Pastor James Carl I've done immense Research into this and in all of the authoritative sources that I found they not only do they not validate the foundational premise of the film they actually say it's just the opposite there is no evidence whatsoever that there was any profound difference between a Galilean wedding and any other Jewish wedding um throughout the film they make these very dogmatic statements they'll say and then after the groom went back to his father's house the father would never tell him when the day was coming the groom would wait and then one day the father would say now now go get your pride and this type of thing so as you hear that if you go well this is true you say well that validates the idea that no one knows the day of the hour the problem is there is absolutely zero evidence that a father would uh make this statement or that that day was a surprise it's literally made up out of thin air and I've reached out again to Jay mcfarl he's the primary Pastor that they cite as uh you know because the film is actually based on his book and I asked him can you show me where you found this this is the statement you say any Jew would have recognized this anyone from the first century would have heard this and understood it it would have made sense to them and he just beats around the bush and you know he's kind of sucking and jiving and refusing to give me uh any citation he says well it's found in a broad Ray of sources and I say give me the citation Jay I'm an author you know I understand research and I understand how cited if you make a claim to the body of Christ you need to be able to back it up and you know I've done my due diligence my Matthew 18 I've given them the opportunity and at this point I'm just saying the creators of the film that James Carl the the pastor that Brett Miller Jr they're dishonest the film itself is actually a fraud that has been fed to the body of Christ and many people believe the claims of the film um but it's literally it's it's a genuine fraud yeah well uh and just so our viewers know Joel sent us in advance his email exchanges so both Josh and I have read these email exchanges uh Joel I found that your uh demeanor your tone and the letters and these emails was very amicable very much like hey I just I I got another against you personally I just want to get at the truth I'm just trying to find some research you were you were trying to give him like outs over and over again and let him save a little face but like at the same time you you were pressing the issue you uh in other words you you weren't just trying to throw mud at him and you invited him on your program multiple times yeah so I I found that your tone was was very respectful uh but also kept pressing issues and when I read their responses I thought uh this is dishonest the The Source he couldn't just give you he took so much time writing explanations for why he didn't actually have sources that it's like if he had sources it would have been much easier to copy and paste than to write these long notes about why you don't have sources and then I didn't see the original it sounded like just and I was kind of reading between the lines on this Joel it sounded like they like maybe as PR folks claimed he was an anthropologist and then in the email he's like actually I'm not an anthropologist is that correct yeah throughout the film it says Jay mccarl Middle East Anthropologist so he's this Authority you know like he lives in the Middle East or has this tremendous knowledge of the Middle East he's a Calvary Chapel Pastor he I asked him I said do you have any formal training in anthropology and Carl admitted he said no not at all he has a degree in chaplaincy um and he leads tours to Israel and sometimes to Turkey and so apparently that is his um you know those are his credentials and they said well and he doesn't and I can't remember if this was his friend for speaking for him or himself but it was like and I think it was his friend he doesn't have a PhD but he knows more than lots of people who have phds because he's studied it a lot on his own and I'm like yeah but it's not the same as uh as what the films seem to be claiming to to be an anthropology to to kind of wear the label Anthropologist people are thinking somebody with a PhD not somebody who on their own time read a lot of books right so look people have put the wrong label on me on various times you know and I noticed it afterwards and I go ah technically I'm not this or that and so I understand that the problem is the creator of the film was delivered in doing that Brent Miller Junior the creator of the film chose to deliberately call this guy an anthropologist to bolster his credentials knowing that he was not a real Anthropologist and when asked about it rather than say yeah that was an exaggeration he's like well this guy knows way more than any Anthropologist and then he goes well and to back this up he's been received by hundreds of pastors and theologians and things like that and so and I go no this is nonsense it's a lie quite frankly he is lying on purpose to try to create a sensational film in the body of Christ reserves better well I have to ask you this Apostle Joel um I'm just kidding he said people give you the wrong titles I was just being silly okay uh I want to know about the resurrection this has been something that's uh it's been one of those things that I have a hard time wrapping my head around with a pre-tribulation Rapture view it appears that when Christ when Christ appears it appears that when Christ appears um that we are transformed that we we we get caught up with him we have these glorified and transformed bodies it happens like in a moment um and yet it appears in the pre-tribulation Rapture view that people will get caught up to heaven and they kind of wait there like in spirit or they embodied or like when do they get new bodies like what I'm confused with that timeline there could you one explain to me the pre-tribulation timeline but then also maybe debunk that as you go so let me just Begin by saying that there are two very clear Concepts that the Old Testament teaches it teaches that someday God Almighty Yahweh God Almighty would come from Heaven to save his people I've written a whole book about this Sinai to Zion um Deuteronomy 33 have a cook 3 in so many places God will come from Heaven he will judge his enemies he'll execute Vengeance against his enemies salvation deliverance and rewards for the righteous so you have these two concepts God will come and then you have the idea that and someday the righteous will be resurrected they'll be raised up out of the ground so when you get to the New Testament Paul was simply answering a very simple question okay we know that Jesus like all the references in the Old Testament talks about God coming from heaven we know that's actually referring to the return of Jesus and we know that someday when that happens we're going to be resurrected because Jesus said I will raise you up on the last day he always says the resurrection is on the last day not seven years before the last day but the last day so when Paul says he basically goes look here's a mystery if you are still alive when Jesus returns here's how it's going to happen we're going to be caught up in the clouds so he explains the transformation the change the twinkling of an eye and that's all the Rapture is is just an explanation of what will happen to those who are still alive and explains the dead will come with Jesus and then we who are alive will be caught up to meet them all and then of course the assumption is then they continue their descent down to the Earth because there is only one coming there's not two Comics now I'll pray to our brothers and sisters what they say is that Jesus will come down from heaven in the clouds he'll probably not be seen we will be raptured and caught up with him and then of course the dead in Christ will be transformed at the same time and then we'll all have into seven years and enjoy the marriage supper of the Lamb um and then at the end of the seven years after Israel has suffered uh seven years of tribulation on the earth and the earth the earth dwellers have suffered the wrath of God then we come back and we inherit the Kingdom um so that's the pre-tribulational uh time frame they they have almost a decade where we are caught up and we are in Heaven There there really is no reference in the Book of Revelation to us being in heaven other than the martyrs whose souls are in heaven there's no reference to some great number of raptured transformed people in heaven it's just a misunderstanding okay you know uh as you were talking Joel I was thinking about this um and I just had this bookmarked uh from a while ago but this is from uh Dr Craig Bloomberg and he uh he takes the historic premillennial position but one of the things and and just like you post post trivia post-tribulational um and uh and so one of the things he talks about is the purpose of the ratchet Rapture is to meet the Lord in the air uh the Greek word for meet there apantesis and um and so here's what he says about that word so this scholar Craig Bloomberg he says uh this term appendices is used for the meeting with Christ the term regularly used in Hellenistic Greek to welcome to refer to a welcoming party leaving a city or house in order to go down the road to meet an honored guest visiting dignitary or triumphant military leader and form an escort party to accompany the person back to his Homer town this imagery then virtually requires that the Rapture be the caption capturing up a Believers from Earth into the air to meet the Lord's descending in the clouds and escort him back to Earth and Triumph imagery that is consistent only with a post-tribulational Rapture in other words the purpose because I and you know usually I try to be a little more neutral on this but cat out of the bag I do not believe in a pre-tribulation Rapture okay and so usually what I'll hear from somebody from the other side is like man it doesn't it's like this big yo-yo meet the Lord in the air and then come back down to earth like what's that all about no you meet the Lord in the air and you're with him in heaven forever but the whole point of that word and meet the Lord in the air according to Dr Dr Bloomberg is that we're meeting him to give him a Victory Parade we're meeting him to escort him back to the Earth because if if anyone deserves a Victory Parade it would be Jesus and so uh anyway I'm just offering that up there uh Joel have you ever read or heard that before yeah the pattern was established with his first triumphal entry into Jerusalem uh they went out of the city to meet him and they said Hosanna to the son of David they laid palm branches in the road and they escorted him back into the city that was in appendices and appendices and this is exactly the exact word that Paul actually uses referring to the Rapture and that's the picture that would have been understood yes that we will go out of the city to meet him and Usher him back and sort of a cute little comment with regard to this is because the our pre-trib brothers and sisters will say well this yo-yo they'll try to sort of you say well it's like a yo why do we go up and come down well the bottom line is if we didn't if we just went directly to him we would be cutting through the earth I mean like we live on a globe um you know so people on the other side of the world like they're still going to have to go around the world or through the world or something so the idea of going up in the air to meet him and then come down um that makes a lot more sense when you think about it than they like to give us credit for yeah yeah okay now what okay Josh sorry you know how I am eschatology no it's okay it's okay chomping in the bit chomping it a bit no I I like the the verses that you're you're throwing out as Joel one of the things that I noticed you mentioned was like hey uh this is what Jesus says Jesus says directly following the tribulation right he's going to send forth the Angels so so Jesus says that does Paul say anything like definitively that we can look in Pauline writings Pauline literature that says explicitly that there is going to be an antichrist revealed there's going to be a tribulation and boom uh then Christ comes back to kick the butts of the bad guys like is is that same Clear timeline articulated in pulse writings or in John's writings yeah Paul reflects the the teachings of Jesus very clearly let me just give you a couple quick examples in second Thessalonians 1 Paul is talking about the Thessalonians being persecuted and about verse 5-6 so II Thessalonians 1 he says for after all it is only just for God to repay with Affliction those who afflict you so again he's going to come back to render judgment against the wicked and he says and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when when will our relief happen it says he says when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from Heaven there's the word apocalypsis revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire dealing retribution to those who do not know God so from a pre-trip perspective you say okay there are two comings one is sort of the invisible Rapture coming and the other is the later coming in glory and fire with his angels well Paul says that our relief from tribulation and affliction happens when when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his angels and flaming fire not seven years before like that's crystal clear um so that's one example in uh second Thessalonians chapter two Paul is very clear here I don't honestly I don't understand I've heard a million explanations I don't know how they get around this Paul says we request you Brethren with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to him so he links two things together the coming of our Lord and our being gathered together he says don't be quickly shaken or you know somebody sent you a letter had a prophecy or a message he says if someone tells you that the day of the Lord has come so now he defines the coming of the Lord Jesus and our gathering together he calls it the day of the Lord he says don't let anyone deceive you for it will not come unless two things happen first the apostasy and the man of lawlessness is revealed so the coming of the Antichrist and the apostasy must happen first before the Rapture in the return of Jesus fault I mean you could not be more clear here and I've heard as I said numerous explanations and it's just it I don't know how our pre-trib brothers and sister I don't know how their conscience allows them to so twist such a clear passage but passage after passage I mean this is these are a couple of the clearest ones every single rapid passage that you look to is very clear that his coming and our gathering together is One Singular event [Music] back to back oh well just the uh the pre-tribulational response on that typically has been that the two things that he says must happen first are the uh the apostasy and the man of lawlessness and then you have the day of the Lord the day of the Lord and this other these other things that come after that right so they'll say well the apostasy that comes first they'll say well that Greek word can be sort of like a departure and a taking away like could refer to the Rapture uh are you familiar with that argument yeah they say it means departure not in a negative sense but it's actually referring to the Rapture in a positive sense um there have been numerous studies done on this I mean everything from every use of the word uh apostasia in you know Greek literature from that time period Etc and even pre-tributors there's actually a book by a man named Lee Brainerd who he himself is a died of the wolf preach River he does a thorough study of every single use of that word and he concludes there is no way that this is referring to the Rapture it's clearly referring to a negative departure either from the military or from the faith or walking away from a community in a negative sense this is just another example if I'm to be blunt of our preacher brothers and sisters trying to literally twist the meaning of a particular text to mean the exact opposite of what it's saying and removing this critical warning of scripture look what how do the false prophets of how are the false prophets of the Old Testament defined they're the ones who say don't worry everything is going to be okay we're the people of God judgment will never touch us you look at you look at these references in Ezekiel and Jeremiah it's always those who Proclaim peace when there is no peace um who try to remove and and console people concerning the very somber warnings of scripture and when I look at many of the um pre-trip teachers today pastorally speaking that's what they're doing because they're telling people you don't have to worry you don't have to concern yourself with These Warnings these are not for you and in that sense and I want to be careful in how I say this but in that sense they are functioning uh in a similar way and to the false prophets that were rebuked very very partially throughout the Old Testament and that again that's something that needs to be taken very very seriously hmm uh Joel the the the the the criticism towards the pre-trib Rapture folks that I'm hearing um from you I want you to maybe give me a chance to like understand what you think their motive is like you talk about distorting and twisting and like it sounds extremely malicious where I mean the the the the preacher Rapture folks that I disagree with frankly um I I don't typically I don't typically speak of it like that that it just seems so intentional to want to distort and misrepresent the scripture and I just I want to know like what do you think is motivating this I mean you you really sound like that you know you and I don't put words in your mouth I'll let you you know correct me in any way that you want um but but it sounds as if you're you're really concerned with their willful neglect and manipulation of the scriptures um you know do you think this is good intention do you think that these people are doing so because they've been caught up in a tradition that they can't see past um you know uh I I'm trying to understand what you think their motive is because I know so many people who are in the pre-trip Rapture space and they think any other position is liberal they think any other position is like a depart Archer from the scriptures and the historic Christian faith and and granted a lot of those specific people that I'm talking about um you know have hyper fixated on one area of eschatology and haven't really studied outside of that outside of that space um but but can you maybe tell me what you think their motive or intention or posture is when they're approaching the scriptures I mean I don't think that you think that all these people are you know like the money grubbing profits of Jeremiah's day who are her prophesying peace peace when there's war I mean I would imagine that you you probably think that they have better intentions than that absolutely yeah in no way shape or form am I trying to malign the motivations um of any of these guys I mean as I said a lot of these folks are my friends what I'm talking about is functionally what they're doing um and I think you said it well they're part of a culture where every all of their teachers in seminary all of their favorite pastors and father figures Etc all teach this and so people essentially defend their teams um they as you said they think anyone who doesn't hold this view is liberal they don't you know we create a bubble we don't talk and and rub shoulders enough with people who disagree with us and so they think they're defending the faith against liberals and Decay oftentimes or they're defending their denomination you know their team and this type of thing but functionally as I said they're they're functioning as in the role of the false prophets of old and I don't think they're money grubbing like uh I'm gonna make more money in line to see if that's not it at all but deep down inside a lot of these guys know that if they taught something else it would affect them financially they would lose massive they would lose their whole platform they would lose massive support and so while I don't think that's you know something they're consciously processing that's something that's in fact like as a minister I've I'm very introspective I've always been a blue collar guy um and I entered into Ministry very hesitantly I I I I always tried to maintain a you know intent making occupation this type of thing but I I'm very well aware of the fact that you know for example hard-working people if they support me they're sending their very hard-earned money to me like I take that very seriously but I'm often thinking of okay if I say this I'm going to lose support and then I check my heart okay what is the motivation of my heart am I saying this because I care about the flock I care about people or because I care about my platform and my reputation and that's something in my opinion that ministers don't do often enough they often think about growing their support base and getting more likes and we live in this age of you know all of these type of things and it's dangerous it's deceptive we we are very good at deceiving ourselves and so in no way shape or form am I saying anyone has evil motivations um but what I'm saying is there is a culture you know again I was discipled in the Assemblies of God I loved the Assemblies of God but whether it be the assemblies or Calvary Chapel I mean if you're not pre-trib oftentimes I I know a lot of people have been kicked out of their churches and if these guys are teachers and leaders and they're part of a culture where them and all their friends are teaching this there's tremendous peer pressure not to acknowledge what the scriptures say in this tremendous pressure to develop the greatest News latest argument to defend the pre-trib Rapture and that's what some of these guys have done with this uh trying to claim that apostasia actually is referring to the Rapture as I said literally making the text state the exact opposite uh what it's so clearly saying okay well um man so many questions that I wanted to get to uh I'm just gonna ask one more here it's gonna but I I'm gonna be real clever and technically make it two questions um but they he's never done that before yeah never done that before Josh and I have become experts at at multi-layering questions so just get it all in all right but uh we're gonna go book a revelation okay the two two of the major pre-trib arguments there's Revelation 3 10 uh since you've kept my command to endure Patiently I will also keep you from the hour of trial that's going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth okay so so for a lot of pre-tribbers this is the slam dunk but let's walk even like Revelation two and three you have church church church mentioned dozens of times in chapters two and three with this sort of climactic moment of you will be kept from the hour of trial to the church I believe it's Philadelphia if I remember right okay and so um maybe it's Smyrna ah anyway but uh but you move into Revelation 4 John sees a door open in heaven he's caught up into heaven sounds pretty raptury so John's representing the church being just going up into heaven and then from chapters four to the end of the book you don't see the word church again and plagues are starting to fall on mankind because the church is dining with Jesus enjoying uh wedding supper of the lamb and then down on Earth you have all the chaos breaking out so I've kind of walked through the whole book of Revelation argument uh or much of it anyway for the pre-trib Rapture just wants you to respond to to that what would you say okay let's we'll begin with Revelation 3 10. so as you said this is a statement that is made within the letter to the Church of Philadelphia this was a very specific Church in the first century that was dealing with a lot of persecution and the Lord said since or because you have kept my command to endure Patiently I will keep you from the hour of trial that's coming upon the whole world so first of all we have to acknowledge that this is first and foremost spoken to the Church of Philadelphia in the first century you can say Well it has application to all of us throughout time and this sounds like it's speaking of the Great Tribulation therefore it must also refer to that well first of all it's it's a statement since or because you have kept my command it's not because you believe in me because you have faith in me it's because you behave a particular way I'll keep you from the hour of trial well if this is talking about a Rapture it's talking about a partial Rapture only for the the most faithful and that's not what creatures teach they teach everyone in Christ will be raptured will be delivered before the tribulation they don't teach some are raptured and other Christians who are not quite as devout will be left behind second no one in the first century in the Church of Philadelphia was raptured no one and so you go well if this is talking about the Raptor then why was no one in the first century raptured and then third when you uh when you actually look at the words of Jesus himself um he says in John 14 he says father I don't pray that you take them out of the world and then he uses the exact same phrase he says rather I ask that you would keep them from the evil one and then our preacher brothers and sisters say yeah but that's only for the disciples and then three verses later Jesus says and I don't only pray it for them but for everyone who will believe in me through their words so Jesus specifies what he means when he says keep he says I don't pray that you would take them out of the world rather you would preserve them so what this is talking about is preserving them keeping them from the evil one just like we preserve pickles or jams and jellies we don't you know teleport them out of the winter we keep them we preserve them that's all it's saying I'll keep you now if you want to say that Revelation 3 10 is for all Christians then you also have to say that Revelation 2 10 is for all Christians and when you look at Revelation 2 10 he says behold I'm about to uh give you tribulation for 10 days you're going to be cast into prison and this type of thing you go okay so if you're trying to say that this verse to the Church of Philadelphia is for everyone you have to be consistent and why is it that you say Revelation 2 10 is not for everyone so you have this very inconsistent approach um Revelation 3 10 is not talking about a pre-tribulational Rapture it simply isn't now the other argument that after Revelation 4 you never see the word church this is I hate to say this is just like a really dumb argument the reason the Book of Revelation uses the word church like quite a few times in Revelation two and three is because it's seven letters to seven churches after Revelation 4 it refers to the church it just doesn't use the word Ecclesia it says Saints God's people those who keep the commandments of Jesus Martyrs etc etc and the church is mentioned numerous times throughout the Book of Revelation it just doesn't call them the church rather it calls them the tribulation Saints and then they'll say well the tribulation is Jacob's trouble it's not for us it's for Israel it's only for them and I go but you've got Saints on the earth throughout the Book of Revelation they go but those are tribulation Saints and I go but I thought you said it's not for them it's for Israel and they go well they're they're just kind of incidental like they get saved afterwards so they're there they go did Jesus die for them because the thing that delivers us from Wrath is the fact that Jesus died for us and they're like well he did die for them but and then you'll get crazy answers you'll have people say Well they're saved but they're not born again they don't really have the Holy Spirit or they get saved according to the law and like you just almost radical answers because they can't explain why there are Saints present on the earth when their their foundational argument is that it's not for Christians it's for Israel and it's you know they undermine their own argument the the problem of tribulation Saints is one that preacher brothers and sisters they just can't argue they can't answer Joel we're at that place in our show where we're we're going to wrap things up so I'll do this I'll have you guys uh give me some closing thoughts um Joel I'll start with you I'll have Michael give some closing thoughts and then we'll wrap everything up um maybe you can have us just uh what would your plea be I would ask you this Joel for people who have been raised in a pre-tribulation space who maybe still believe in a pre-tribulation Rapture and you would just contend with them study these passages maybe read this book what would be the thing that you would say Hey you know uh rethink your position and and why uh and give them a quick pitch as we wrap this up yeah look my appeal my heartfelt appeal would be please consider the possibility that you may be wrong and be prepared to face the Great Tribulation in the Antichrist we have to face tribulations and antichrists every day that's Christianity 101 but at least be open to the possibility that you may be wrong be prepared win-win like there is always wisdom in being prepared um if you want to read a real simple book that does a great overview of this Dr Michael Brown um co-authored a book um terms based on his author's name but it's called not afraid of the Antichrist it's uh Dr Craig Keener Keener yep sorry you mentioned blomberg earlier um so that's an excellent book to read um if you want to consider uh a different view I'll be teaching through this particular issue on my channel on YouTube Joel Richardson as well as Frontier Alliance International on YouTube um all this year I'll be doing probably 30 to 35 sessions um look the as I said the warnings of Jesus that at that time many will fall away from the faith these are to be taken very seriously we're already living in a time when people are walking away from the faith and positive sizing in droves the church is hemorrhaging particularly among young people and when we Face trials and difficulties that will increase exponentially so this is this is my part it's just look take care of your soul as all the Apostle says test yourselves to see whether or not you are in the faith like even Paulie Apostle goes I don't want to run the race get right to the end and then Bonk out and not receive my inheritance and you know I I have I view the sovereignty of God and this is not a Calvin Armenian thing but the reality is there are many many serious warnings throughout scriptures to test ourselves and to be prepared and to recognize that we are not Beyond falling away from faith and um so to me that's this is really what it boils down to it's a very practical real pastoral matter yeah okay well Josh you you also started out with just uh I thought you're gonna volley it over to me first for a closing thought so uh anyway I have one so I'm gonna share it um you know this is an interesting topic and as some of our viewers know eschatology is something I've read extensively on and studied a lot of and um and I have friends in all circles and you know Joel Joel and I have some disagreements on uh eschatology and Joel is a friend and um you know Jimmy Evans is a friend of mine a very dispensational very pre-trib and uh and he's a man of God and does a lot of good things and so um you know with that said I you know I have my own opinions and very very slowly I am writing a book about the Book of Revelation and one of these days it will come out but uh you know I think that hopefully before the rapture yeah hopefully Josh I like what you say about the Rapture I reserve the right to change my opinion on the way up and that's correct um but uh you know I I do think that uh that we'll be I I do think that the post-tribulational Rapture approach is the correct approach I think we need to show Grace to each other and I think that it's okay to feel passionate about what we believe and to share that and uh and let's uh and Joel I like that you kept calling them my pre-tribulation brothers or brothers and sisters you kept calling them brothers and sisters even in the midst of of sharing some passionate remarks and so you know that's just kind of an ethos at at uh Remnant radio that we want to uh always maintain and um and so Joel really appreciate you coming on the show I appreciate you guys very much what you're doing and um you know just a little bit of trivia um Michael you just took over the pastorate for Sam storms down there in Oklahoma and a lot of people don't know that Sam was actually my professor he was my teacher my my eschatology class when I was in Bible school and Sam you know uh is a devout a millennialist as I believe you are as well and Sam is one of my absolute most favorite people uh one of my favorite Pastors in the world I love him dearly and I could say that about many others you know within their eschatology I disagree and so I can tend to be you know a bit of a passionate guy um but I want to be absolutely clear this is not intended to be hostile or adversarial in any way shape or form it truly is for me it's a pastoral issue that's great hey guys and I think uh you know for me if I had a closing thought it's just going to be that we need to be ready um no matter what you know Jesus Promised there's going to be tribulation right like you're gonna be you're gonna suffer because of Jesus Jesus suffered because of the message he brought and we're supposed to continue to carry that message and since the time of Jesus um the time he rose from you know the grave sent it into heaven there has been tribulation on the earth and I think that in the west we have had an unprecedented period in of time where we have been able to live completely free of any meaningful persecution not to say that there hasn't been persecution here or there but the kind of um you know the kind of persecution that you see uh in coliseums the kind of persecution you see and the underground churches across the world it's not this the kind of persecution we're seeing here not not unto Bloodshed for sure um so I would I would in one sense just encourage the body of Christ if you're pre-trib um just just realize that real meaningful in times level persecution has been on the earth uh since the time that Jesus has left and that we need to be ready to give our lives for the cause of the gospel for the sake of the gospel and not hold out that you know God wouldn't let me suffer because that has not been uh ringing true for the historic Christian church for the past 2000 years since his resurrection so I would just encourage those of you out there hey hold on to a preacher Rapture if that's going to be you you know uh uh I'm willing to call you brother and sister with with ease there's no no hesitation in my heart if you hold a pre-trip position uh that you are brother and sister in Christ I would just Echo what Joel said in saying well if you're going to hold that position uh just be willing in your heart of hearts to endure persecution and don't let that that kind of escapism mentality rob you uh of faith during persecution when I do believe it probably will arise in our lifetime whether it's a in-time level tribulation or just general persecution as it appears that our rights are being eaten away at chipped away at bit by bit um okay Roundtree what did you oh oh yeah and I kind of I just just thought was it came to me because I was I was thinking about Josh you just made an appeal and Joel your whole segment was an appeal and and you talk about like a pastoral approach I think that sometimes when we talk about like hey let's have a respect for everybody's Viewpoint people think that means we shouldn't have like a very passionate Viewpoint like I I would disagree with that I think we can have an ethos of like you're my brother you're my sister I love you I care about you while at the same time having a passionate appeal for someone to come over to our side like I uh I don't think you know you hear the joke sometimes where somebody says oh pan millennialism it'll all pan out in the end and and I actually don't think that's good and I don't think it's good I don't think pan millennialism is our blessed hope and uh and so I think that we should actually seek more clarity than that I don't like the joke I don't I don't laugh at it when I hear it and and so I I think that I I think that the alternative to disrespecting people doesn't mean don't have an opinion or ever make an appeal I think there's a way to be passionate to make appeals while still holding respect so yeah for example I respect Michael Roundtree but I think his stupid beardless face is ridiculous um Joel agrees with me that that needs to have some hair on it for it to be a respected scholarly face I just that's an opinion it's a passionate opinion I think you're a brother I just you know what you know what your hair is ridiculous from my wife's opinion sorry right here so I'm actually gonna side with Michael what matters is what Michael's wife has to say about this matter that's right dude when I had a I'll tell you what when I had a beard I got way less kisses she's like it just pokes me so yeah you know so the trick with this Michael is you have to ease her into it you have to go for a beard three weeks beardless one week and gradually you build in I love it that's very okay guys after all of you this is this is where I cut off the beard conversation I can barely take it anymore guys thank you so much for tuning into this episode of Remnant radio if you want to support the channel there are links in the description you can do that we wouldn't keep you from it uh you can give a one-time gift on PayPal or you can give a recurring gift on patreon so it's five bucks a month if you have on patreon you get access to extra content and as a reminder always please hit that subscribe button hit the like button so that you get uh notified you know in the YouTube algorithms or the Facebook algorithms when we go live next time so thank you guys so much for watching uh Michael and I and the other Michael actually are filming another episode in like 60 seconds can we tell them about what it's about Roundtree yeah we're going to be talking about Andy Stanley big a big kerfuffle with Andy Stanley and uh seems to be unhitching from more than just the Bible uh so we're gonna talk about it after this we'll show the show on Tuesday and guys just so you guys know we've been not doing our Tuesday episodes we've been doing just Monday and Wednesday and then Tuesdays are a little more sporadic if you might have noticed but we will have one this Tuesday so yep uh anyway guys thanks so much for joining us God bless you all Joel what a pleasure to have you on the show look forward to our next time having you on the show you're uh your great guests and really appreciate what you bring appreciate you guys very much blessings to you

Channel: The Remnant Radio

Views: 78,997

Keywords: The Remnant Radio, Theology Podcast, Remnant, Remnant Radio

Id: PmOAMKzZBVk

Length: 72min 53sec (4373 seconds)

Published: Mon Jan 30 2023