Debt Isn’t The Answer To Your Problems, It IS The Problem!

ramsey show you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story [Music] live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of choice anthony o'neil ramsey personality number one best-selling author and host of the youtube very popular show called the table is my co-host today we're here to help you and talk to you about your life and your money open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five so anthony forbes is reporting this and anthony by the way number one best-selling book debt free degree which apparently a lot of people didn't get the book or the idea right uh because the student loan crisis is at epic proportions according to the washington post president joe biden will not include any student loan cancellation in his annual budget while the annual budget which is expected at the end of the next week only contains major policy plans that have already been released by the biden administration it's another major setback for student loan cancellation as a presidential candidate biden called for congress to cancel up to ten thousand dollars of student loans for student loan borrowers but hasn't enacted any policy for student loan cancellation through an executive order the exclusion of student loan cancellation isn't a surprise based on the latest news on student loan cancellation it's easier to read the writing on the wall about where biden stands on his executive authority to cancel student loans it's not that biden doesn't support student loan cancellation he does however biden wants congress not the president to enact student loan cancellation through legislation so turns out um and and you know that there's no we used to say things when i was a kid anthony see if you've ever heard this saying that's like an act of congress which means it's impossible right yeah you know you can't get you take forever and if you do if you do get you know that's why it's easier to get an act of congress people say my i've heard people say that my whole life and so um now biden is saying it but um yeah so the uh you know the problem though is that people quit paying their student loans because they think that aoc and biden is going to come and elizabeth warren is going to come save them yeah and so the default rate on student loans have gone way up because they're all anticipating a forgiveness a political uh some kind of a political activity to forgive their loans it appears if it does happen it's not gonna be anytime soon and i think the thing that is so discouraging for me dave is i've been criticized on my show telling people take advantage of paying off your student loans because you're not you're not gaining any interest right now but the number one critique that i'm getting from people is well wait i want to see what biden is going to do with counseling the student loans and now look we get this we get this like biden is not going to fight for it and i believe now dave i could be wrong let me say this on the on the ramp so i could be wrong but i do not see congress coming in and making it happen now it could happen but history is showing us that it's not going to happen well it could happen um but one thing's for sure not anytime soon that we can count on yeah because it requires an act of congress right and so uh it's not gonna you know so the problem with this is this is where piss-poor leadership yeah sends a signal that causes people to engage in self-destructive behaviors yeah yeah meaning i'm not gonna pay my student loans because the government's going to let me out of them and so now i'm in default and default by the way screws up your credit by the way it builds up late fees and interest and penalties and by the way it's going to make it harder for you to get out and by the way most of you owe more than ten thousand dollars yeah yeah the average owes about thirty eight thousand that's the average nationally and we talk to people on here every day with over a hundred absolutely um the i think the thing is this folks what you really need to get your head around from an economics perspective not a political perspective not a moral or philosophical you know is it your right to have your student loan forgiven is it philosophically all of that really doesn't matter here's a real practical fact for you the government is not good at anything definitely they're not efficient at anything and so anytime anywhere in your life you are waiting on them to fix your life your life is going to continue to suck yes it's a simple principle of life yeah yeah you know if if anybody wearing a superman cape with an r or a d on it is flying across in your vision promising you that your life is going to be okay and you believe them when they do that you are screwed now dave would you agree uh if i said hey listen keep riding your path keep paying your student loan student loans keep doing it and if congress comes in and says i'll forgive 10 000 then you take it but if they don't you're still moving forward i wouldn't say not to take it there you go you know if it comes but i would not adjust your current life and your current plan based on false promises coming out of washington d.c because they've been coming out of washington dc as long as it has been there yes yeah and so you're i'm old a hundred percent of my success has been the blessings of the lord yeah customers that loved how we served them and my heart but work yeah i have not gotten any money from washington dc they have not sent me any money i'm not waiting on them to create a successful life for dave ramsey and if you wait on them to create a successful life for you your life's going to continue to suck yeah the same thing when you're waiting on i'm waiting on biden bucks to come in the stimulus money if 600 dollars changes your life your life was already messed up baby you were already playing small ball you weren't playing big it's t-ball you know so you need to get you get in where they're throwing fast pitches and swing for the fence honey if you want to be you got to play big you got to think big and you know you're playing small ball when you're when you're looking for the government to bail you out of anything now if they start handing me some of the money i have paid them back in any form or format i agree i will take that now when i take it it's a different kind of criticism than you get when you talk about this yeah if i take it it's called corporate welfare oh lord corporate welfare oh no that was me getting some of my money back that's what that was so any challenge i can get my corporate welfare i'll be signing up for that but but i am not waiting and i'm not adjusting my success patterns the behaviors in my life to uh wait on the government to fix my life i'm not going to let them influence me into violating common sense in order to do that and that's what you have is another failed political promise right here absolutely so tomorrow sorry america is pay off your dadgum student loans go after it and if they give you some money use it use it wisely but until then if they do not pay your bills bottom line as fast as you can yeah the secret to million becoming a millionaire is not waiting on the government to do it for you oh wow that was insightful who thought of that i did [Music] destroy your student loans if you want to do that there's a book by anthony o'neill at ramseysolutions.com right now that'll really get you out of debt but we're not paying any of it for you darling you're going to pay it this is the ramsey show [Music] we were drawn to christian healthcare ministries because we both had young families and we wanted to have more children and we had also just started a real estate company and needed to find health care coverage that would meet our needs we were attracted to chm because of its low monthly costs and the ability to negotiate medical costs down established in 1981 and accredited by the better business bureau chm is here to meet the needs of your growing family or small business check us out at chministries.org backslash budget we absolutely believe in it [Music] anthony we could do student loan forgiveness we could just say i forgive you i was about to say wait where are you going with this day it's worth about what when one of the politicians says it right it's about as good it's about as useful wow i forgive you wow dave i've got student loans i forgive you oh yeah you just made somebody upset listening right now you know it's i've been doing that for 30 years it's a spiritual gift all right sarah's with us in raleigh north carolina hey sarah welcome to the ramsay show hi thanks for taking my call my pleasure how can we help so um we just recently heard about your plan in this last year and we've worked really hard and we've got rid of 20 000 in credit card debt and have about 6 000 left the problem is is that um recently well about ten years ago my in-laws gave us ten thousand dollars when we were getting out of medical school and my husband was um going to get his first job and we're moving across the country and they said okay just pay this back whenever you have it it's not a big deal well recently we offended them and they want their ten thousand dollars back so we don't have they didn't let's rephrase this when someone says give it back to me later that's not a gift that's a loan okay right you just pay us back whenever no big deal right that's a loan isn't it right yeah they loaned you money and uh so uh but it just didn't have really good clarity and good communication in good terms there was no date certain no interest rate no payment rate nothing it was just you know pay us back someday when you can yeah right right yes okay and how many years ago was this 10 10 years and you told me that and i already forgot already and so uh your household income now is what it's about 150. and you have six thousand dollars left plus this ten right um yes of all we have a mortgage and we have a car payment oh car payment is part of the debt snowball hunt so six thousand dollars plus a car what do you owe in your car um we it's around thirty thousand okay all right so you have thirty six thousand forty six thousand dollars in debt and you make a hundred and fifty yeah yes how much do you have in your savings right now wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait okay okay sarah hold on i got this dave i got this dave so sarah when we asked this question on how much debt did you have that's everything excluding a mortgage okay so you're new to us so i want to step in before you know you know uncle dave comes in uh so your brother is going to come in and help you out here so how much debt do you have excluding your mortgage right now all together okay so um 6 000 um credit card 30 000 the car payment and about 100 000 in student loans we went from six thousand america to 136 thousand dollars in debt forty six years a hundred brother in law yeah uh huh goodness gracious okay so here's the thing that and i'm going to say this too because you're just starting off with this you're going to work the debt snowball and you're going to put the ten thousand dollars inside of that debt snowball so you think she ought to pay him back i mean well if it was a loan yeah did it sound like to you she said give it back to us later that's a loan to me okay i'm just making sure we heard the same thing okay am i wrong no no no i'm just just checking you know checking in with you i mean i wish you could see you're running around since you're running interference here i thought i'd check it out uncle dave over here looking at you know brother day i mean anthony over here like what you're thinking um but yeah i think you need to add that in there until so to answer your direct question yes you need to pay it back um and i think family owing family money compared to owing a bank money is worse in my opinion because it just creates so much more drama and so i want you to get to it as much as possible um as quick as possible but what is the uh six thousand dollar debt yeah that's six what is that that's a it's a um normal credit card the low rate okay and then you have another thirty thousand on a one single credit card no that's a car that's the car yeah that's right okay good okay all right cool so our debt snowball sarah that we teach the fastest most efficient way to get out of debt is list your debts smallest to largest regardless of interest rate and attack them in that order do you all have any money in savings that is not retirement i bet you they do um we have a roth ira no how much money do you have in your checking account right now um about ten thousand okay that's a pretty good bit all right so what would i do if i woke up in your shoes today is how we answer questions here knowing what i know of 30 years of teaching people to become wealthy the shortest distance between you and wealth is to be debt-free before not counting your mortgage as soon as possible because if you had no payments making 150 000 you'd have some money agreed right okay so we're going to list the debts smallest to largest and attack them out order today i'm going to write a check and pay off the six thousand dollar credit card by the way you need to cut it up and close it and only use a debit card you can't get out of that while you continually go back in okay yeah and we're well on our way for that one i think thing number two is you're gonna as soon as possible in the next two months write a check and pay off your in-laws now okay here's the problem the only reason they want the money back now is they're trying to punish you because you didn't mind them right they told you to do something and it offended them right what was it well um because we've kind of seen a pattern of behavior they wanted to move to the same town with us and we said that we didn't think that was a good idea so they were very very upset yeah that would hurt them so what was the point what's the pattern of behavior um just that they get offended very quickly and easily over small things and we were like if you're living right next to us they're gonna you know they're gonna be upset at us for this or that and things like this are gonna happen for the rest of our lives for their life so we go ahead and give them a big thing to be offended at like don't move to my town that's not a little one that's a big one okay yeah that would hurt most people's feelings so you've already drawn some uncomfortable boundaries with them um that you felt were necessary uh and i'm not saying they weren't but um so you telling them when you're gonna pay back a loan that you choose to pay back on a moral ground not a legal ground because they have no legal standing in this at all this was a handshake yeah okay right so you get to choose the terms okay uh so in other words no you don't get to choose to punish me by doing this but i will honor your request and repay the loan on my terms you don't have to say it that way but you just take that stand and your terms happen to be that it's the next thing on your list of things to do since you paid off your credit card today okay and then you're gonna save up real quick like i mean one month or two months and you're gonna write one check for ten thousand dollars and be sure in the four column to put paid in full that just says another message for them to be offended about but just in case in case they decide to come back and go now we want interest or whatever because this is all they're getting right and they're not getting anything else so because i'm not having you pay them back because their feelings are hurt i'm having them pay i'm having you pay them back because you were obligated to do that morally anyway when you took the money it was alone and we're all in agreement on that are we not sarah yes yeah even though you don't really want to because they're instituting this on pure punishment and they're being childish i don't blame you for those feelings but i'm executing i'm executing on principle here and on mathematics and let's just go ahead and get this out of the way oh and by the way now you're free the borrower's slave to the lender and you're not anymore beholden and so now you can be kind and strong and gentle with them and continue to set appropriate boundaries [Music] stop paying your overpriced wireless provider and switched to puretalk they use the same network as the larger providers for much less for just 30 dollars a month get unlimited talk text and six gigs of data with no contract the average family saves over dollars a month by switching to pure top just go to puretalk.com and enter the promo code ramsey to save 50 off your first month pure talk simply smarter wireless [Music] anthony o'neil ramsey personality number one best-selling author of the book debt-free degree is my co-host today open phones at 825-5225 now on the debt-free stage in the lobby of ramsey solutions stephen is with us hey stephen how are you good how about yourself better than i deserve brother where do you live charlotte north carolina oh beautiful town very cool and all the way to nashville to do a debt-free scream that's it love it how much have you paid off eighty-nine thousand dollars love it how long did this take it took me 364 days oh he beat the year just i had a year so that helped i love it i love it and your range of income during this year it was uh starting at 79 and went up to 94. good for you and i had a a 20 000 gift from my uncle very nice what do you do for a living i'm a technology analyst for a large consulting firm good for you and what kind of debt was the 89 000 dollars it was all student loans oh wow yes sir what's your degree in yeah um so it's a multi-faceted one it's industrial engineering and accounting and paul alisai oh wow from where where'd you go clemson okay good so you get out of school how long you been on school it's been about a year and a half now okay oh you started attacking as soon as you got out as hard as i could yeah wow so what inspired you to do that um i think well i first i found out about you guys through the podcast and i've always had kind of a proclivity for personal finance and as i started learn more about it i started to learn uh just about how there was seemingly only one model you know that everybody had to follow this one path it was unilateral and everybody did the same thing as far as leveraging debt to help them achieve their goals and um listening to y'all's podcast it was it was the first one that didn't try to detach personal finance from the rest of your life it was the first time that that you know a financial advisor would talk to people about how there's relational iq we talked to people about how there's financial iq and talk to people about their goals beyond just be wealthy it's to also be generous and when when i graduated i didn't really know exactly what my student loan debt was at i kind of just kind of floated through college financially and did what i could to get by but never really took things too serious and then one night my dad and i sat down and and summed it all up and that was kind of the night that i just you know i remember my world was spinning around me i could look and see my feet but i didn't see the ground it was just it was crazy um and then i thought back to to matthews 21 12 when when jesus he cast out the money changers in the temple and he cast out both the sellers and the buyers and he said anybody that participates in that system they're thieves and i wouldn't do that anymore and i saw from that day on i was like this is it you know i can't i can't be part of a system that is an oppressive debt system where so many people struggle and just to line the wallets of the bigwigs you know in the city skyscrapers so let me ask you this question stephen doing the math you got a 20 000 gift so that means she has about 69 000 in student loan debt but then your range was 79.94 so this means man you were you were you were living way and i mean way below your means yeah um talk to the listeners on why you make it that's what i was trying to figure out like how did you do it and then one why did you go to that extreme well um so the the gift was an inheritance from my uncle when he passed away um his dream was always he had one rule you know go to college just don't go to law school and so uh so that i don't want any lawyers with family well and so uh that was his thing was he really wanted me to use that money to succeed and so um that was part of it you know i think building a big why is a really really important step in finding out a lot about yourself and about your personal motivations yeah um you know i would you know clinch tight to my why throughout the whole process um and another big thing ao actually you say it all the time and it's just become something i live by but you when you say to speak what you seek until i see what i spoke um that's that's been big for me yeah and so part of my why is is i actually want to go on to law school and so i want to keep going and i want to succeed financially i want to be generous i want to leave a legacy and i hold on to that and i tell myself you know if i've done this i can even go further and i keep talking about what my goals are because it's not a i wish for them it's one day i'll get there i just know it's hard work between me and them and i don't want to get too much into your personal business but were you living at home during this time or yes i was oh yeah because i was just trying to make sense with the math i'm so happy you say yes you were yeah my parents they were very very generous i am very blessed i love it i love it man so now you're making almost 100 000 a year and you have no debt in the world that's it and you're hauled yeah i am 24. are you single i'm not i've got a girlfriend oh i was about to hook you up right here in the ring anthony's going to play matchmaker oh she's right there she is beautiful yeah i love it i'm sorry you're in what i said stay trouble of the love business right there i'm just saying oh man way to go way to go man thank you okay so you were living at home and you lived on nothing still pretty genuinely i mean you truly didn't go out to eat and um i mean you were like the ultimate cheap date oh it was awful i mean well one thing for sure she doesn't love you for your stuff or for where you were taking her no it was uh because because there was none of that you were just getting out of debt and you're free now way to go man thank you okay so you you just listened in detail and attacked it exactly like we teach was there anything else you did special well so um i i was you guys could consider me like a ramsay super user i was i was listening to every single hour of every single podcast i worked nights and weekends at a second job what was the second job i was delivering pizzas oh good and um yeah and i mean i was constantly listening to the podcast consuming every bit of media listening to debt-free degree listening to about the student loan crisis i mean everything i could just to stay laser focused and at no point did i question that i would be on this debt free stream it was a question of when not if come on man and it was that focus that really really helped yeah that's a big deal yeah you know uh that's the difference when people actually make it out of debt or they don't that is that they they just put blinders on and it's that's their thing for a short period of time 12 months in your case not quite 12 months one day short you know you had one thing you're focused on and when you do that you can do almost anything but we live in an add culture where we're all distracted by squirrel right i mean everything right everything comes along gets our attention and pulls us off pulls our eyes off of the goal and the problem is not how tough the goal is the problem is all the stuff you have to give up yes sir to stay on goal yeah with anything and this is no exception way to go i'm so proud of you who are your biggest cheerleaders so i've got a list of people but but really all my friends david and caitlin i want to appreciate you guys for always inviting me to things knowing what my answer would be um and candy mills leland miranda and clarissa they always cheering me on my mom my dad my brother for loving me and helping me to find my why and of course my lovely girlfriend for for everything and then some tolerating you being a cheap date really there we go wait he wasn't a cheap date yeah she was yeah she was he was a focus date that's what it was but that made him cheap and there's nothing wrong with that it was intentional cheapness it was intentional cheapness yeah but when the millennials he can do anything he wants exactly that's what i want to ask him you're making six figures you debt-free what's next so i've got a couple short-term goals um probably the one i'm most excited for is i am cash flowing a trip to europe touchdown i'm pumped about that i'll be there in a year and then um of course law school off in the future i want to buy a house and and get all that settled and your uncle's not going to be happy no he won't he won't but i think he'll probably laugh at that uncle be happy because he's going to pay for a cash yeah uncle said no law school and then he passed away so anyway yeah all right way to go man we got a copy of the legacy journey for you that's definitely the next step in your uh in your process i'm so proud of you very very well done and we've got a copy of another copy of the total money makeover for you to pay it forward and give away and so thank you man very very well done steve it from stephen from charlotte north carolina 89 000 paid off in 364 days making 79-94 busting it count it down let's hear a debt-free scream three two one i'm debt-free [Applause] this is the ramsay shot [Music] [Music] so [Music] anthony o'neil ramsey personality is my co-host today we're taking your calls about your life and your money open phones at 825-5225 jump on youtube or podcast land wherever you listen to podcasts and join anthony at the table subscribe wherever you listen to podcast or subscribe on his youtube channel the table there's lots of people come to the table and there are some wonderful conversations there that will cause your life to improve and you will be substantially cooler after having listened to the table i cannot give you that promise with this show but anthony can increase your cool it's possible it is possible it can be done christians with us in california hi christian welcome to the ramsey show hello dave thanks for taking my call sure what's up um well i just want to say my daughter donnie she turned me into your the reason i'm calling is me and my wife we live in california we are 50 i'm 53 and a half she's 52. um really thinking on stop maybe hopefully working from my company in the next two years 55 56 we own two properties one house i live on the other house we rent and i'm trying to get the best advice on what to do um both homes have equity the one i live on i my loan is 570. the house probably worth a million for the house i rent is worth about eight seventy five i owe 143. we were thinking of paying off the house it's a 15-year loan i have six years left the idea was let's pay it off keep renting it get 35 3600 every month use it for my primary home and maybe move out of the state to rent the two houses and buy something somewhere else i love the weather i hate the politics in california so i've been working 32 years for my company between me and my wife when you tell me if i'm talking too much i'm giving you too much info or you want you're fine you're fine so what do you make a year okay my wife we make 190 and then the rental property give us about 42 000 uh yeah so where would you move well i'm thinking right there man can you see she's thinking what tennessee oh okay all right i don't know i'm thinking nevada you're looking at i i hear great stuff and when when would you make this move we i would like to stop working from from a company in two three years and we were thinking right now i i have 120 000 dollars on on my own stock account private account that i i've gone with and i'm thinking that's possibly enough money especially if i retire to have cash on hand and the struggle is do i want to have cash on hand and get a new loan on my rental which i have a three percent loan 15 years six years left to pay [Music] and get cash so if i want to leave the state buy some property outside the state and still if i do that my rental okay let's uh let's play a pretend a minute okay um you have a hundred and twenty thousand and it's in your company's stock right now right no uh is it in your company's stock yes or no no no what's it in he's saying uh i have uh some cash on the on the e-trade account and then i have facebook stock you have what facebook facebook okay okay yeah so let's play pretend that you sold everything okay i got a million two in my pocket if i did my math right yeah yeah that's your network yeah millions maybe not counting not counting your retirement accounts but the facebook stock and your two equities are roughly a million too is that about right um well how are these hundreds i know yeah you gave me the numbers that's about right okay so if you take a million to a million two and you come to tennessee missouri kansas texas nevada whatever you could buy a house to live in and buy a rental house and pay cash for it yes well let's just do that yeah you know my wife loves the ocean well i didn't you said you told me you were moving i didn't tell you you were moving yeah no i'm moving okay the only question now is she's coming with you it's ugly she i think she is yeah okay so i mean maybe maybe you're going to florida i don't know where you're going i'm joking i'm joking around with you here but here's the thing if i don't like the politics in an area that means that those politics are going to affect economics they already have and they're going to again including the real estate that you leave back there when you try to leave there and leave keep this rental property and have a long distance rental property no go put a rental property in an area where you believe in the area and is near where you live and you're going to do better on the rental property at that point and you know you've completely cleaned up everything because i would not have 120 000 in any single stock right anthony right right right right that and that's the key thing for me too david i like how you're talking about how you just broke that down 1.2 he can he can move to nevada buy a home for a half a million buy another rental property for maybe two or three hundred thousand dollars and still have some money left over to invest in mutual funds you have a diversified portfolio exactly and you know have your income to offer the rental you have no house payment um no taxes no income taxes anyway and uh if you pick your state wisely and um uh you know and and you can do some investing but i i don't buy single stocks well particularly high volatile tech stocks like facebook yeah um and i don't have long distance landlording and i don't have debt and so i'm trying to give you the gift of all of three of those things with this proposal yeah no long-distance landlording no debt and no high-risk stock investments when we're done and then you can settle in and enjoy the next portion of your life because i doubt you're going to do nothing you're too young yeah you're probably going to go do something you can only play so much golf or fish and he said anyway you need to do something and create some income just for the fun of it not because you have to but the natural progression doesn't have to be you put your feet up and quit at 50 something years old yeah so now he's definitely not going to florida he's not going to to that ocean either you don't think so no state tax right no they don't have it they don't have anything i'm going to florida well there you go when will you be back [Laughter] because i was kind of expecting you to be on the show next week so hey dave we're we're in a new age we're scheduled we're scheduled here i could do the show from the beach house in florida yeah that's assuming we let you [Laughter] see you're making all kinds of assumptions now no they don't have an income tax it's one of the reasons that people uh tend to go there's a ton that half the time in florida when you're walking around you're talking to new yorkers you know i'm just messing with you i'm from florida i'm not from but you know i can't i was living in florida before i came here you were in jacksonville when you came here it was beautiful yeah and as far as i know you don't have an outstanding income tax bill from when you were there before dude absolutely okay good i'm glad to hear that absolutely so that's what i would do christian is i would just have a clean break a one fell swoop you'll have no income tax at all on the sale of your personal residence up to 500 000 in gain married filing jointly 250 000 for a single and i think you're married still and the uh the rental you will have capital gains on it or you could do a 1031 tax deferred exchange and sell that into a 1031 escrow and buy your rental out of that when you get to whatever city or state you're going into and have zero taxes you'll roll the taxes the capital gains over so that's another move you can make there facebook whatever you make on that you're going to pay some taxes on but dude you need to get out of that by friday anyway absolutely not particularly into facebook just predicting volatility in that world this is the ramsey chef have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of ramsay advice in their life let them know about the ramsey call of the day podcast it's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes check out the ramsey call of the day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts [Music] this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story [Music] live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of choice i'm dave ramsey your host anthony o'neil ramsey personality is my co-host today as we talk to you about your life and your money it's a free call at triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five laurel is with us or laurel is with us in houston texas to start off this hour hi laurel how are you good how are you better than i deserve what's up so me and my husband are 31 years old and we're in baby step 7 and we just had our first baby wow congrats yes thanks so i was planning on going back to work after my three-month maternity leave but now i'm thinking i might want to be a stay-at-home mom and i'm kind of nervous about the decision because i make over half our household income and more importantly i'm worried about getting back into a career career after maybe staying at home for seven to ten years with all our kids until they go into school so i just wanted to get your thoughts on is this an okay financial decision and also do you have any advice on getting back into a career after being out maybe up to 10 years your home is paid for yes and you guys make how much each i make a hundred and forty thousand dollars and my husband makes a hundred thousand dollars before taxes what do you do i'm a chemical engineer [Music] okay well i i don't know a lot uh about the tactical aspects of what it takes to be a chemical engineer on a day in and day out basis i do grasp the idea that it is chemistry and a lot of math and neither of those are going to change right chemistry is not going to evolve to where you don't even know where you don't understand the formulas in seven years and certainly math and certainly math is not going to uh there may be some discoveries and some things that there will be some discoveries and things that um you know will affect things you may keep up with those just by reading and staying on top of things but i don't know that you know for instance if you were a uh a software engineer seven years from now you would be an absolute idiot you would have no idea yeah what's going on because it will have completely changed in seven years agreed agreed but i think your the world that you're in is much more stable because it's based on uh formulas and suppositions is it not that's true so um it's not a rapidly evolving completely turning over set of information that you would become irrelevant in seven years and you would in some industries i mean there's a lot of things that are moving very very fast and in seven years i mean i look back seven years in broadcasting how much it's changed you know but uh but you could you can come back in with that skill set now you know you may have a a process to do that but you're a hundred percent debt free he makes a hundred thousand dollars a year you guys can live on that can't you yeah so we're confident of that but i would definitely want to go back to work at some point so i guess it just makes us nervous to have such a big change but we could easily obviously have a good life on a hundred thousand dollars and i don't know why you couldn't take on a a a lightweight consulting gig ever so often to keep your toe in the water that's what i was going to say especially like the last two years like mainly with the not with a money goal but a goal of staying relevant right okay and i was and and i'm not a father so i mean listen to dave more you listen to me but i'm also thinking like maybe you spend the first five years and then the last two years you start just inching your way back into picking up some consulting stuff going out around it so this way when you're ready to go full throttle in it you're already immersed back into any changes that have already been there but i would say the first you know few years yeah focus on your kids you guys have worked so hard to get to this point to be able to make these choices yeah and you're in a position to make the choices and here's the thing you will not get to 84 years old and look back and go oh darn i didn't maximize my career yeah you will get to 84 and say oh darn i miss those kids i missed their childhood i could have stayed home yeah that's what i'm most scared of yeah so quit yeah okay all right thank you that helped me feel a lot better yeah that's what we would do at the ramsey house anyway because money's only good for one thing causing the things in your life that you want to have happen that's what it's for and that includes generosity yeah and the only reason we invest is so we can cause more things to happen in our life we're controlling more variables in our life and you've done that with baby step seven way to go you know what dave i like how you just said that man it even got me kind of emotional because when i heard that i heard her say man i wish my parents would have been around maybe a little bit more i'm grateful that they did what they had to do they had to walk yeah and work um but hearing that she has the opportunity to be more involved into the younger people's life that is to me that is more valuable than making a whole lot of money because that's a strong investment given that that's their situation that's what she's able to number one number two it's her desire yes where you know we've got that's not to put shame on a lady who chooses to say i want to work no i know i get i get joy out of being at home with the kids when i'm at home but i also like good joy out of my career yeah and um and but she just had a baby and she's like no i'm done tap out tap out yeah and so that that's cool so yeah we don't we don't shame stayed on moms and we don't shame uh not stay-at-home moms absolutely my moms are not that uh but i do for me and my future i i want to give the chance the opportunity yes yes yeah it's not a matter of if they need to work exactly it's do they want to and it's like hey it's like if you want to quit whenever you want to quit quit you know do your thing i think we for me i really i really love what we teach because i believe when you're debt free and you're making good amount of money it brings options and you can choose to live the life that you want to live not the life that you have to live and sometimes just getting rid of the debt does that come you don't even have to be all the way into you know paid for house and everything but i mean the number of times i've taken a call here and um you know we have a minivan yeah that the payment is 700 on and i could quit work if it wasn't for the minivan got rid of the minivan just now it's gone say bye bye odyssey goodbye see you baby out of here i mean really i mean but we make choices and we like feel like we're trapped then by the debt and you can just amputate the minivan and get your life back yeah amputate the tahoe baby yeah get your life back and uh we trade out chunks of who we are in order to pay payments on stuff that really doesn't change our life absolutely yeah so way to go good choices good thought pattern i love it good critical thinking this is good this is the ramsay show [Music] hey folks i got a great option to help you pay for your education the army national guard the army national guard believes you are the next greatest generation because you have proven that even in adversity that you have what it takes to succeed that's why they offer benefits like tuition assistance career training and a paycheck to help you avoid debt no matter what your goals are the army national guard can help you get there visit nationalguard.com to find out more [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] anthony o'neil ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at our famous ten dollar 825-5225 is almost over learn how to make faster and real progress with your money when you check out this ten dollar sale you can save up to sixty percent on over 40 best selling books like the newly repackaged graduate survival guide it's beautiful ready to uh help the graduates out and there's graduates everywhere this weekend there was everywhere around here man it was oh yeah like the high school is all busted loose around here big time and uh anyway shop for a ten dollar sale online at ramseysolutions.com total money makeovers ten dollars coleman's book rachel's books christy's books deloney's books all ten dollars everybody's books are ten dollars it's pretty cool plus uh we got a gift for you you can enter to win our ramsey cash giveaway but hurry the giveaway ends may 31st here any second we're giving away 500 cash every week and a grand prize of five thousand dollars cash of course no purchase necessary you can enter daily must be 18 or older to win text cash to 33789 ramsey solutions.com check out the store open phones here triple eight eight two five five two two five daniel is in nashville hi daniel how are you hi dave hi anthony thanks for taking my call yeah what's up um so my wife got my wife and i got married about a year and a half ago we graduated about two years ago um and we set a goal for about five years we want to move outside of the united states to just share the love of christ with a place that doesn't know it yet and so right now we're living in nashville we're both teachers here and we were going to move closer to home to new mexico and so our plan was to buy a house for about five years and then to sell it and then leave but just with the way the market has kind of exploded over the last six months 12 months 18 months um we are just not quite sure what to do i've run some numbers in an excel spreadsheet so i have my own idea but i was i was curious about what you would do if you're in my shoes what are y'all going to do in nashville i mean they're leaving nashville i mean mexico to new mexico are y'all going to be missionary work or are you going to still teach and we plan on continuing to teach okay for five years still okay so we're building up a war chest to do the mission field after five years is that right yeah just growing in maturity okay in our marriage and professionalism all that stuff good for you okay good well obviously if the housing market continues like it is for five years which it won't um you would be more than okay buying a house right definitely because you'd make a brazil you'd make a bazillion dollars but i'm not assuming that's going to happen and i'm guessing you aren't either that's right so what is your fear of buying a house and holding it five years um i'm just not sure what the timelines are for like when it's better to rent versus when it's better to buy some something say two years something say you know you should have at least seven years on the higher end but um i think after running the numbers i think five years is safe but what i don't want to happen is like the the same sort of bubble that happened like 12 years ago 10 years ago or so um and then you know we because people are overpaying about you know 15 or 20 000 asking price um and so yeah i don't want to overpay by you know 20 000 and then the uh the house is not worth as much and we end up paying more um trying to just like resell the house than we would have if we had rented for five years okay none of us know what the market is going to do exactly and um but i i do not do anything financially predicated on the crash and the end of the world okay if i'm going to do that then we just need to buy bullets and water and a tent right so i don't i don't but could real estate uh offset if you go back and actually look at the numbers and and the bubble of 2008 was a real estate bubble that burst right it was the first one some of the other than the great depression it's the only time we've had a we've had some economic downturns but we've never had a real estate downturn like 2008 was but here's the interesting thing in almost every market within five years it had fully recovered okay i mean look at the history of it you can look at the that's a database thing that's not a feeling and so you know i remember saying well you know the people saying well you know scottsdale arizona phoenix arizona oh my god you know it was artificially high it dove vegas took a big drop it was the fastest growing city in america and it dropped way down most areas dropped down it was the first time we'd seen homes single-family homes actually go down in value in some of these markets they were all back in three years okay they were and that was a dramatic one now so now the question then is how much money are you going to make or are you in a stagnant market so here's two here's a couple of numbers if you want to nerd out further on it just for the fun of it get with the real estate agent out there and number one you got to be debt free right anthony yep you got to have the emergency fund got every down payment before we even talk about this but assuming you've done that you put it on a 15-year fixed rate where the payment's no more than a fourth of your take-home pay these are the guidelines we use around here so you don't buy too much house and you don't buy a house when you're broke but once you're doing all that then you can look at two statistics with your real estate agent out there and uh i would say pre-2020 i wouldn't use 2020 numbers or 2021 numbers because they're they are unusually high in terms of how fast properties have gone up in value there's very few times in history you can look back and see this much escalation in value or cost on property uh this fast so i would say you know like 18 17 18 19 in this market pull up on the mls for me ask the real estate agent what the average appreciation rate was in the neighborhood that you're considering okay okay and then that will tell you if you're going to make enough during your holding period to offset your costs okay so you would just take that rate and then that would be the rate i would use because that's probably more average than what we're experiencing right now that's you know what we're experiencing right now i don't think is going to continue for five years that's unrealistic i could be wrong but i don't i don't think so the second thing you can ask them for and this might be the most important number in this whole conversation is ask them for average dom prior to 2020 average days on the market how hot a market is this and if the average dom on a house the price range you're looking at is 270 days that's nine months don't buy you're gonna get stuck but if the average dom is nine days prior to 2020 then that market was hot before the pandemic i see and you know you got markets that were that way already they were already running 20 day 30 day 40 40-day doms and if you've got average days on the market then that market's going to move you'll be able to get out of the house i'm not as concerned about how much you're going to make on it i'm fairly comfortable you're going to make some money but i am concerned you can't sell it when you get ready to leave and you end up with a rental property in the states and you're on the mission field oh shoot me get it over with i hate that idea sounds good does that make sense to you yeah yeah hey man good question and thank you for your willingness to serve the lord in that way very very cool this real estate market's got everybody talking you know it does dave i mean it's because i mean you can move in a place in 20 seconds make money on it right now oh yeah trust me i know i'm tempted i'm tempted right now you just bought that i'm and i'm tempted how long have you owned that property seven months seven months and you already make some money on it oh my goodness i have offers on the house right now dave let's see there you go yeah that's how it works when you're anthony o'neil i'm tempted he's just a money-making machine listen look at him listen man he looks like money doesn't it no i don't know about all that i look good but i don't know like money [Laughter] but you know what told me that's i mean i'm just you know but i'm not going to sell i'm not going to sell yeah until next friday when he comes back in here and tells me he's sold already now someone comes to me and says i give you they already they already are now but i'm talking about they give me a lot more money well that's a lot i need give me six figures over asking price whoa [Applause] [Laughter] why are you looking at me like that kelly uh i'm kelly kelly gave it she just gave him the aunt kelly look that was aunt kelly looking in there i saw that eye roll i sure did i saw it it was real hey listen it's a wild market wild market this is the ramsey show [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] anthony o'neil ramsey personality is my co-host today on the debt-free stage right here in the lobby of ramsey solutions philip and leah are with us hey guys how are you hey dave welcome where do you guys live dayton ohio oh love it very cool well welcome to nashville thank you and all the way down here to do a debt-free scream how much did you pay off 84 000 all right and how long did this take three years and 10 months got it love it and your range of income during that time we started at 80 and then took a dip down to next to nothing and then now we ended at 165. wow and they went a double okay so uh what do you guys do for a living now so i am a sales operations and incentive leader with a large electrification company and i am the director of city lights which is an outreach organization for our church and i manage a team of teaching pastors and i'm a lay counselor and teaching on the teaching team at our church oh wow cool which church south brook christian church yeah okay very cool good well welcome you guys very good what kind of debt was this 84 000. uh we had it all we had the student loans we had the car the credit cards the medical the taxes man everything you're just like normal normal normal normal people but then something happened we knew that we wanted to get out of debt we didn't know how to we didn't know a path other than just do the normal make your monthly payments it wasn't a clear line of sight of how to do it quicker we saw a conference of yours in september of 2016 in dayton and we were like we want to do that that makes sense that was a great night hall that is a great theater in there i remember this yeah and it is uh it's fabulous i think we got uh really great seats because my parents work for wfcj 93.7 radio station is the only radio station in ohio that does your entire show live yeah not simulcast so i think that was probably the hookup that they you know said you guys need to be in the front row you got connections i like it okay so you get on the front row and you get the fire hose go up to a water fountain to get a drink and we turned on a fire hose wow it blew my mind how much it made sense just simple things to do so then that following february of 2017 we did the home study with another couple and we were like okay we can do this and i'm the numbers guy i just laid it out at the current income level if we have our budget set this way three years we're done and that was all fine and danny the first year we actually were ish only about 13 000 out of the 84. and then i got laid off a year into our debt-free journey i was laid off for the first time in my career and you went to zero income zero and it was protect our four walls and let's get to the next position let's grow our family and what's up next for us and luckily thankfully the lord provided and i was able to find my next position even get promoted slightly higher level and we were back on board um and leah steps into her role and then yeah so then leah got a found a role that's more up her alley and literally march of march 15th of 2020 right as was my start date oh that's great yeah so yeah i went to work everybody else went home and and then that just created our snowball so that 2020 was an interesting time because there were so many we were meeting so many needs we were feeding so many people and i was seeing so much you know devastation from shut down and yet i was making money and then getting a promotion and a raise during that time and then he gets a promotion and a raise and it was like it felt uncomfortable but it felt providential we because i kind of felt like we we paid our dues we have also been both not working yeah living off of a severance yeah well i mean you know and the best way to have sympathy with broke people is not be one of them right right yeah i'm curious throughout you all's journey i know you lost your job would you say that was the hardest part of this journey or was that one of them what would you say was the hardest thing to do throughout this journey persevere persevere i think it's those darn envelopes i don't ever carry them with me at the right time they're always in the buffet and i and i'm out shopping and i need the envelope that was always our gripe i'm like would you please take the envelopes when you go somewhere i'm not going to shop anywhere yeah you'll end up somewhere oh okay yeah perseverance perseverance was the hardest thing just because it was it's it takes time yeah and it doesn't just happen overnight yeah yeah you know we had uh our entree leadership summit in dallas last week and i was with business owners and business leaders uh almost 3 000 of them and an amazing number of them had the best year ever in 2020 and there's almost like a survivor's guilt like you know other people are hurting but i'm having the best year ever yeah but you did you know you did completely overcome change adapt pivot whatever you want to call unprecedented whatever the number whatever the words where we were all using to try to survive um and ramsay ended up having a better year than we had originally predicted uh but the amount of work we put in and the stuff we did to cause that to happen i don't feel any survivor's guilt at all i don't feel guilt at all we earned every penny of it and we helped a ton of people in a time when they were hurting so it was exactly what it should be but there's a thing out there that a lot of it's there's an amazing number of people in america that it was their best year of their life income wise right that was us and they and and they're looking around and going yeah but i really can't tell anybody because all these other people are you know it kind of feels weird yeah but we wouldn't have had that best year ever if it hadn't been for some of the planning and some of the things that we had put into place a couple years ago and the route we need and stay on budget and spend the cash only yeah and uh yeah to kind of go is that what you attribute this to what would you say the reason to get out of that is well the best ways what's the technique what's the thing you got to do it it is just keeping the main thing the main thing and understanding but i would say we also helped some other people once we got on board and saw what we could do and because he's so brilliant with math and the spreadsheets we there's another couple that we walked alongside and they were like oh we'll never be able to be out of debt it'll be 10 years phillip said let me run the math and it was more like five and then it seemed doable to them so then we'd find somebody else and we'd say hey why don't you come over for dinner on friday let's go over your finances and let's do it together and just tell us your life story and we'll help you just just let's go through your underwear it was because we could see like sometimes we'd be like okay well we don't want to make that mistake again we don't want to do that yeah let's just we did dumb too it's okay and so empathy was you know was built through that process so that kept us motivated just keep going keep going because we really could see the end in sight very cool yeah real quick before we let you do your debt free scream you're kids you have kids what do you think what is one thing they're going to learn from this journey bring them in what are their eight names and ages yeah we have three children our 18 year old is flowing the nest and she's working really hard in columbia south carolina doing her thing working good for her yeah and then this is presley she is our 12 year old and then this is aven and she is eight almost nine so i would say they all had different experiences our 18 year old got told no a lot there was a lot of things unfortunately for alex that was like you know we started this journey i think she thought we were crazy she was a part of building those i think we had a picture but it was like the the thermometers and the color she understood all that and her perspective is probably a little bit different and then even she said this morning we were laying by the pool at the hotel and she said man in 10 years because i said something about us being millionaires in 10 years and she said in 10 years i'll be 18. it made sense to her like what that looks like and she said how old are you guys be he's like we're not telling but anyway i think what they're going to do yeah what they're going to learn is um you know i remember a shopping trip with you presley and we had the envelope and i said this is what we got and you want to spend it all that's fine but if you want to put something back what isn't really important then just decide she made a really good decision and i think just those little things along the way of just being disciplined that we have the money to spend but do we want to spend it that's it we're not in congress we have to have a limit right i love it way to go you guys we're so proud of y'all we got a copy of the legacy journey for you that's your next step thank you is moving on to wealth and just outrageous generosity continued you've obviously got big hearts for ministry and for everything else way to go very very well done and another copy of the total money makeover for you to give away and pay it forward with one of those dinners where you go through your friends finances that's right we will do it philip and leah presley and haven from dayton ohio 84 000 paid off in three years and 10 months making 80 to nothing to 165. count it down let's hear a debt-free scream three two one [Applause] this is how it's done boom [Music] [Music] anthony o'neil ramsey personality is my co-host today paying off debt is smart saving and investing is smart being generous is smart but there's one key to winning with money that's often forgotten and that's protecting your family from emergencies there's offense and there's defense there's ten kinds of insurance coverage you really might need depending on your life stage and we've built a tool to show you what coverage you need to add drop or adjust and it only takes five minutes we are not in the life insurance business we're not in the insurance business at all but we will teach you and rank your to-do list by importance and email it to you so you can get your plan in place fast it's called the coverage checkup it's completely free and it could be the most important five minutes you spend today donald wrote in and said i feel and i kind of like how he put it he said for anyone who has not completed this checkup do it right now you never know when something will happen you never want to leave your family in a bad situation amen so get your phone out text check up to 33789 or you can visit daveramsey.com checkup don't let an emergency sneak up on you you got to play offense and defense if you want to win with money lisa is with us in washington hi lisa welcome to the ramsey hi there hi dave hi anthony hey what's up my call sure well we sort of have probably maybe a boring question but we my husband and i have spent the last 30 years getting ready for retirement we're retired and we realize we've been foolish we have not had a will this entire time and so putting together we want to put together a will and we were asked are we going to do a joint or a mirrored wills and i don't know the difference i can't really find a good answer so i thought call dave i have never uh known anyone to advise a joint will because you need to have separate wills because you're separate people and the chances of you dying at the same time a joint well is just like the two attached at the hip is all it is i would do a mirrored i i that's what sharon and i have done we have a mirrored will and a mirrored will is if we both die at the same exact moment or within seconds of each other or something plain wreck or something like that everything's the same when we're both gone that's a mirror okay and so the only thing that's different is what happens if i die before her what is how is it handled with her and if she dies before me how's it handled and by the way that's exactly the same we just changed the names out in other words she gets everything if i die i get everything if she dies and we both die it works the same either way after we're both gone does that make sense so that the reason anybody brings up a mirrored will they're identical except you just change the names in and out is it's a lot less expensive because it it they don't charge you two full will prices okay emotionally they shouldn't they shouldn't okay i think that i'm like have that con i have a little bit of control freak on me after i'm gone we work so hard no we did not inherit our wealth we built it we worked hard we sacrificed and i think i just thought of problems i didn't know anything about this and then until i asked somebody asked me the question well that doesn't neither one of these address the control freak issue okay the only difference is see they're two separate documents or or those two same some a similar version of those two separate documents attached at the hip joint versus alike except mirrored that's the only difference in your question now then as far as control freaking then that's a matter of setting up a trust leaving the money into trust and the terms of the trust help you be a control freak from the grave okay and i've done some i've done some of that now i believe in that to a degree i mean i don't want to be overboard with it but um i really you know if i got if i got a 29 year old doing heroin i do not want to finance that right exactly and i'm thinking if if there is you know dementia or alzheimer's on either one of our parts the other dies we have a will set that we know this is what we want and then you know i'm just trying to control something like that where it's changed after let's say my husband dies and i have um you know dementia the will would be invalid you would not be of sound mind if you change it with dementia you ever heard like the movie say i dave ramsey being of sound mind yes yes that's what that means okay that's that's the missing piece that's why we called you for your brilliance so thank you it's okay it's all good yeah you cannot execute a contract of any kind including a last will and testament if you're not of sound mind and if you do it can be undone yeah yeah dave in your expertise i've never heard of it so i'm asking to learn too have you ever heard of someone where a joint will is not a good idea no yeah i'm not i'm not an estate planning expert but i've never i mean i've because it complicates yeah it over complicates it if you'll treat it as two individual people yeah that have the same wishes yeah okay i mean we're not trying to act like we're not married or we don't care it's not trying to separate the marriage or something like that it's not like a prenup it's not that kind of thing but you're just it's a lot cleaner and it helps you through think through okay if you go first here's what we do if i go first here's what we do and you have to kind of think through that because it might be different if you had step children right or uh you know like if she had children i didn't have children and we married second marriage or something you know you kind of think through you got to really think through how things are going to play out then yeah and so forth so the sound mind thing is wild yeah i actually got the weirdest deal when i was in my 20s i was buying real estate and i bought a mortgage note on a house okay i bought the bank sold it to me the money was owed to this little ripoff finance company yeah okay and i bought the note from them it was it was like a twelve thousand dollar note and it was uh i bought it they couldn't it hadn't been paid on in four years and so i bought it for 500 bucks so now the guy owes me twelve thousand dollars and i paid five hundred dollars you're following me right right it's a second mortgage on this house so i go to collect it and it's up in the country and the son of the guy turns out the guy had died and the son of the guy gets mad and threatens to whip me and so i said well dude you know you can threaten with me if you want but i'll just foreclose on the note so we got to figure this out and he still it was not it was not pretty so i just got out of there while i my my scalp was intact and uh started foreclosure oh wow and they sued me to stop the foreclosure on a technicality the suit got thrown out but while we went to court it was just a little it was it like going to traffic court it wasn't it wasn't a big time but it was just very interesting because i got in there and they brought doctors and nurses and everything and it turns out that the old man had financed windows with this rip-off window company and he had alzheimer's and didn't even know what he was doing and so the note was actually invalid wow but because of a technicality i beat it and was able to continue the foreclosure but i couldn't do it because i just knew it was wrong yeah yeah and so i walked up to him afterwards now he ain't gonna whip my butt because i'm in the court right i'm sitting in front of the judge and i'm like dude i had no idea all you had to do was say dad was ill right i said i got 500 bucks in this and i paid that lawyer over there 600 so i got 1100 in this if you'll give me the 500 i'll eat the lawyer fee just to own this story because this story is awesome and so uh because your daddy shouldn't have gotten ripped off and i'm not i don't participate in that yeah did you get the 500. yeah he gave me 500 bucks and i walked out and he he had no problem after that because otherwise he's going to lose the house right to somebody yeah i wasn't going to take it but it just was wrong but see that's that's a person of not of sound mind entered into a contract to buy replacement windows on his house he probably didn't even need for 12 000 puts a lien on his house dies and now i show up in this story what six uh probably three years later four years later after that but that contract was not enforceable because if that if if that little technicality in the court case which they you can't bring a court case within so many days of a foreclosure or they can't be heard so they didn't even have the court case but if that doctor and nurses had gotten on the stand and said i'm here to testify that man had alzheimer's at the time this contract was signed that contract would have been thrown out i would have gotten zero and because i bought an invalid contract i didn't know it wow i mean i didn't know it was all fraud wow but it was scummy people i mean i knew the finance company i bought it from was coming but i had no idea the whole deal was wow was was bass ackwards like that very interesting though i learned a lot yeah yeah learned where not to go and ask somebody something because you get your butt whip number one number two i learned when you get in front of the judge that you can win on a technicality and still be wrong uh you know number three i learned that when you do the right thing you get a great story absolutely absolutely did not take the family's little house they can have it oh my goodness gracious wow wow that puts this hour of the ramsey show in the box [Music] hey it's kelly associate producer and phone screener for the ramsay show if you would like to do your debt free scream live on the show make sure you visit thermsyshow.com and register we would love for you to come to nashville and tell dave your story [Music] this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of choice anthony o'neil ramsey personality is my co-host open phones here at 825-5225 triple eight eight two five five two two five you jump in we'll talk about your life and your money samantha starts off this hour in dallas texas hi samantha how are you i'm good thank y'all so much for taking my call sure um okay a quick summary um so my husband and i are paid off except for our house um our debt free um and we're currently saving a lot of money because for our next house we want to buy land and build a house on it cool but i also went to move some old 401 k accounts into an ira and they told me it would be about twenty thousand dollars to convert it to a raw and so i'm wondering is it better to put more money towards the land and next house or is it better to pay the tax bill now and go ahead and convert that into a roth account we'll have the cash either way neither one is under the dumb column i mean you're going to have tax-free growth on that roth from this point forward that would be awesomeness and of course paying cash are almost paying cash for the land and the property going forward is be awesome as well either one is fine either one moves you ahead in your wealth building um let me think which one i would do what what what would you do i'm doing the land you're doing the land yeah mr real estate over here oh yeah i'm going down to the land hmm i don't like the irs that much they come second well i don't like them i'm trying to keep them away from it later that's the point so that's true what's your household income um our household income right now is probably around 170. i eventually want to be a stay-at-home mom though so we're living off my husband's yeah right now you're making bank okay so how much do you need for this land the land we're looking around um 150 how much 60 i'm sorry 60. we already have 60. okay so you're 90 away see i think you're gonna do both but you don't have to do the but the only question is the order do we do the roth now and then the land and pay cash uh do both or do we do the land and then convert to a roth by then the account will have grown a little more and it will be more than 20. but i still would convert it later i'm probably with anthony i'm probably going to go ahead and save up and pay cash for the land but then i'm also going to conv you can convert this to a roth anytime you want right you don't have to do it on this current transaction right so go ahead and move it to a traditional do your land deal but come back and flip it to a roth later when you're debt-free okay perfect pay your cash pay your taxes at that time of course when you do that that that that i would do i like it that's good i like that now how long do you think that would be dave it didn't sound like it's gonna be two years yeah so then 20 000 is maybe what 22 maybe yeah but you know may it might be you know i don't know it depends on what the account goes to but here's the principle too that we can go back to okay we tell people not to let's say she was in baby step two right we would never do that right we always you know need to get out of that first right and i wouldn't do it in place of baby step six i would say finish getting your house paid off before you convert to a roth yes and create extra tax money yes while you're doing that and so this is kind of like that i see you now yes and so that's that that got me over to your side on doing the land first i think your your instincts were right on that thank you for admitting that dave thanks a lot very good and i'm i'm dave ramsey you're anthony o'neil now okay we can switch my stock just went up considerably i'm way cooler than i was five minutes ago you're cooler i'm richer yes wait a minute that wasn't a good trade right pam pam's in akron ohio hey pam welcome to the ramsey show hey dave and anthony thanks for taking my call sure my husband and i are on baby step six and he is 57 and currently eligible for retirement he has a pension and if he takes that pension as a lump sum it would be about 387 000. currently he has about 135 000 in his 401k and our question is should he retire and receive the lump sum and should we dip into our 401k to finish paying off our mortgage or should he keep working until the mortgage is paid and then consider retirement what's his yearly income right now right now he makes about 45 and i make about 55. what do you owe on the house 77 000. oh man well you understand he can't access either one of these until he's 59 and a half without penalties right yeah we were thinking under the rule of 55 he could access the 401k money yeah you can probably get some more he'd probably get some rmd out of there but i don't think you can get it all um okay i don't know he might um hmm well number one if you're going to retire yes you take the lump sum always and yes you roll it to an ira and you don't pay taxes on it when you do that okay that's number one move um our concern i guess too about retiring um in the lump sum is this like he's eligible right now and if something happens to him like say before you know now and two years from now when the house is paid or whatever he keeps working then if he passes away or something happens then we lose that pension money we would only get about a year's worth of salary as a benefit instead of the whole pension is he ill no he's in good health okay he just drives too fast okay we hear him in the background like he is right all right i just wondering why you didn't think he's going to make it okay you just never know i guess yeah the other thing is this okay um i'm gonna read into this that this is not his dream job okay you're correct yeah okay okay factory job he's only 57 years old i'm 60 okay and i'm gonna work 20 more years just because i love what i do i'm gonna work till they won't let me talk anymore because i don't make sense so um that might be tomorrow but i'm hoping for 20 more years anyway but the uh uh so the point is is that he doesn't have to stop creating an income just because he retires and so we thought about that yeah what i would do is if you can pull the money without paying any penalties on it under 55 rule if you've already looked into that and you can confirm that with a financial advisor with a tax person without me doing it on the radio because that's not good a good plan then yeah i i'm gonna quit either way i'm gonna roll it to an ira either way and if i can pull enough out without paying any penalties to pay off the house i'm gonna pay it off now i'm gonna pay it off later otherwise and i'm gonna take a bow and then they give you a standing ovation and then you get what's called an encore career and for the next 20 years do something you love with your life and make twice as much as 45 while having fun doesn't mean you have to make nothing for the rest of your life i love it [Music] what makes our show unique is that we genuinely care about our listeners we're intentional about choosing the best advertisers to recommend blinds.com is no exception they offer high quality window treatments at unbelievable prices and they make it simple to shop blinds shades and interior shutters with easy online ordering free shipping and a guaranteed perfect fit go to blinds.com and take advantage of this week's special savings [Music] so [Music] anthony o'neil ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five if you're tired of feeling stuck with your money like you'll never get out of debt or you'll never have enough save for the future it does not have to be this way you can make progress with your money and you can make it faster than you think the only way to make it happen is with a budget and that's why you need a ramsey plus membership you get access to the premium version of the world's best budgeting app every dollar and you'll plan out every dollar that you're going to spend and save before the month begins it connects to your bank so you never miss a transaction you get customized budget reports to show you exactly where you can find more money you can get into financial peace university and go through the whole class plus a bunch of other classes and all kinds of groups that you can participate in and even online coaching as well when you budget and you get intentional with your money you will make progress fast and you can start a ramsey plus membership today for free if you want to start the free trial of ramsey plus text trial 233 789 text trial 233-789 our question of the day comes from blinds.com find out for yourself why blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window coverings you get free samples free shipping and with the new promos they run every month you'll save even more use the promo code ramsey to get the best possible deal so dave today's question comes from sean in missouri sean says i'm 21 years old and currently making 31 000 per year at my job i've been able to complete some college courses in the evenings but it's challenging to keep up with school while working full-time i have a plan that will allow me to work part-time during school and graduate without loans is moving is moving to a part-time job worth the risk or should i keep my full-time job and continue with college courses part-time uh great question sean and and one of the key things that i personally teach our young people is to work part-time while you're in college and part-time meaning anywhere between uh 20 and max 22 hours maybe and so yes i don't have a problem with you going down a part-time so you can focus on getting your education because i want you to do that i do not want you to go down to working less than part-time the only time i am okay with full-time work is if you're full-time it's not intervening with your education and or your full-time going part-time in school but in this situation when you're going full-time uh part-time hours are good especially if you can do that and still graduate 100 debt-free yeah i mean 12 hours a day that's not bad yeah that's part-time it's half a day right yeah i mean 12 to 12 half days 12 hours a day yeah well wait no i thought you mean like 12 hours a week you know come on dave davey's he's trying to confuse me y'all that's half time i mean let's work in half no you're not even working full time it's just half i mean now you're talking about working 12 hours maybe on saturday and yet he doesn't have to work monday through friday okay you know come on dave come on dave don't don't do him listen the deal the deal is this man what most people call work in real work so stop whining and finish your degree debt-free if you can do that part-time that's fine if you quit your full-time gig and your part-time isn't enough crank it up and take three part times and call it full-time and get back after it whatever it takes to get that degree debt-free that's what you're gonna do yeah um and so you're not at risk as long as you're willing to work there we go and don't listen to dave do not work 12 hours that's part-time anthony no whining it's just a half a day there's 24 hours it's only a half day work my gosh just light weight you know in the last segment dave you said you're going to be here for 20 years unless you say something crazy i think uh unless i quit making sure that does make sense it's still just a half a day i think you're down to one year dave i'm losing traction fast josh is in atlanta hey josh welcome to ramsey show hey guys how y'all doing better than i deserve what's up fair enough fair enough um so little context i'm a new listener um and first time homebuyer and yeah this market as i'm sure you're aware it's just kicking my butt um this morning the real estate market yeah you know real estate's um you know buying a single family home yeah um it's wild in it yeah a little bit so my question for you is um you know i put a couple of offers in you know got blown out of the water because you know everyone right now is thinking with their emotions so it's like i gotta have this house and you know they're going 20 over asking and i'm putting offers in for five over asking um i guess my question is do i restructure my my budget for a house because i've got a sizeable down payment you know and luckily that makes you know pretty decent money how much you have down and how much you make so i've got down about 50 to 60. good um and i make around 100 000 base good how old are you i turned 26 this week actually good for you you're single yep oh well i'm gonna you know yeah yeah you're not are you married you're not married okay good no i wasn't asking about your dating life i just asked if you're married okay the uh uh so a single guy 26 making 100 was 60 saved well done sir very well done no no debt josh no pay for car in cash you know got one credit card just for two percent cash back that i pay off no club every month no student loans um you know people sometimes yeah okay all right so so um what you're calling about is down in your heart you have recognized that people have lost their freaking minds absolutely and you're trying to not join you're trying to not join the crazy parade please don't exactly right like i gotta text my real estate agent today she was like yeah they're going with another offer yeah and she's she's she's the drum major at the crazy parade yeah sure yeah she's just trying to keep all the stuff in order here yeah well she wants you to buy a house and if you don't go crazy you're not gonna buy a house right now so here's the thing have you ever seen one of those movies or ever been to a live auction where they're auctioning off something oh yeah like the jabbering auctioneers yeah yeah and uh there's an old one with the old comedian jerry lewis and uh dean martin or something at auction and he kept scratching his nose and accidentally bidding and all this stuff you know what i'm talking about but what happens at an auction is people get excited and in the exuberance and the emotion of the moment they overpay for stuff and that really does happen that's why it makes a great movie scene as well that makes sense yeah totally that's what you're in the middle of yeah so you need to you need to emotionally steal yourself put a buffer up in your emotions psychologically called your intellect that says i am willing regardless of how many crazy but people are around me to pay x for this house if it goes for x plus 20 grand that is god saying i'm not supposed to get this house yeah fair enough um i mean it's it's every house though that i put in hey josh it's the market but you know what you think it's gonna be every house for a decade no no you think it's gonna be that way for two years no no it might be that way till christmas it may be next year before you buy a house but don't get in the crazy parade and josh why are you in a rush to get into a house not really there's nothing on fire here yeah you're young you got some money yeah i know i've been i've been dying for my own space you know well go get an apartment okay what are you living at home so yeah we're we're renting at home right now okay um all right so rent a home big deal don't join the crazy parade don't do it bro it's listen if you can buy a house and you have done it in a way that you feel proud about how you did it instead of ashamed that you joined the crazy parade then buy a house i'm okay with that i'm okay putting in some bids but don't overpay i looked at a house the other day for fun there was a million dollars over the comps heck the dude is smoking crack all he's doing is fishing for the king of the crazy parade i'm not in the crazy parade so i just kind of looked at him and i went dude i'm going to stand back over here and watch this this is spectator sport right this is not a game i want to get in so we'll stand back and watch and if some idiot wants to pay that for it that's fine but over comps no man just calm your butt down take a cold shower you got house fever it's down you're gonna get a house you're gonna be wealthy if you don't join the crazy parade but pay x no more [Music] [Music] anthony o'neil ramsey personality is my co-host today on the debt-free stage right here in the lobby of ramsey solutions michael and amanda are with us hey guys how are you great how are you better than we deserve where do you guys live raleigh north carolina all right and how much debt have you paid off 128 000 um or 128 712 ah okay and how long did this take three years we were originally on a four-year trajectory and finished a year early jacked it up yes sir cool and your range of income during that 36 months 144 000 down to 127 000. the miss the miss here went from full-time to part-time all right love it and uh what do you guys do for a living i am a police officer and a retired captain in the north carolina national guard thank you for your service thank you oh yeah and i'm a registered nurse all right and you work whenever you want all you want absolutely what a hospital in raleigh um i actually work at wake med it's in cary north carolina yeah yeah i know about carrick yeah yeah my father uh was in fayetteville fort bragg so familiar with fort bragg myself yes i bet you are you know very cool what kind of debt was this 129 000 it was uh it was everything we were normal it was mostly school loans but uh car payments uh credit cards and uh 401k loans sally may took the bulk of it though yeah just just trucking along normal yep two good careers but loaded up with student loan debt and and then other stuff starts piling in there how long you all been married um gosh just since 2017. three years four years okay good yeah funny story we um as we were going to recon our wedding venue we listened to your show the whole way up it was about a four-hour trip from raleigh to the mountains so that's how it got started and the first thing we did as a couple was to was financial peace and then the rest was history oh wow so dope well only the military guy recons his wedding absolutely so romantic yeah he's just blossoming over there yeah that's great so you the trip though gets you turned on to it and then you dive into financial peace yes sir yeah we were kind of doing our own thing and then as soon as we were married then we merged everything just like you suggest and then it was game on um we actually kind of uh had to hit pause a little bit about seven months in um we found what we were expecting yay it was a happy you know happy pause but we did have to kind of reign it in just a little bit for a while there yeah very good it's a good reason to pause baby comes and hit play and go again and there we go finish it up finish it up that's a lot 129 000 is a lot did that feel like when you started like you were never going to get through it yeah it absolutely did and um we just continued to listen to your show i have a 30-minute commute to my job so that's what i did as i was on my way in and on my way back i'd listen to the segments so it just it helped keep me motivated and you know i had the spreadsheets out and you know did all i could to keep us on track and we did it so i'm looking at the math here and assuming y'all were very aggressive you know um especially being a newly newlywed uh new parents what would you say was one of the hardest things throughout those three years probably getting to the 129 i think it was every time i looked at it it seemed impossible but we for one um she was a good support system for me and vice versa and we had our monthly budget meetings and we kept each other on track and accountable and that that was key for us so just trying to you know saying no sometimes especially as a new parent you know in your ear the whole time you're hearing you know you have to do this you have to have this you have to whatever and it's and you don't it's okay or being newlyweds it's like well you know we didn't take a honey we still haven't taken honeymoon but it's like it'll come you know in time it'll be fine we don't have to do anything yeah and now you can go where you want to go that's right absolutely and uh how old are you two i'm 44 almost 45 and i'm 42. okay okay young people very nice of course you're younger than dave's that's good very good well you'll be honeymoon in the rest of your life yeah very good so um this is impressive very well i'm proud of you guys who were your biggest uh cheerleaders i would have each other yeah i was gonna say i i really do i um we did tell people along the way i think we got a lot of crazy looks for it a lot of people didn't quite understand like why don't you just keep on doing what you're doing you make good money you'll be fine it's okay it's all gonna work out exactly and and sure maybe it would maybe it wouldn't but um we just had to boost each other up and just keep each other on track primarily i think so i think we're really each other's biggest support system yeah i had a crew crew at work too that were um they weren't weren't crazy enough to go down the uh the baby steps road but they helped you know keep me motivated along the way even though they're not doing it but they were they were always they're at least positive yeah they were keeping up on what i was doing instead of making fun of you too yeah that's cool but now you're done so i mean no debt this is a how does it feel we finished up uh new year's we were done i guess december 31 and so we made the last payment and so to wake up on the first of the year and say this is it like it's a new year everything is a fresh start it was amazing that's cool it's a great feeling so what's next i'm curious is honeymoon in the future or maybe once our little guy is two so maybe once he gets a little bit older okay okay we might just save up and do something even bigger than we thought before sure yeah we we haven't talked about it yet we're def we're halfway through uh baby step three and then we're negotiating the rest of the steps and then i think we'll get uh aggressive about a a good good good honeymoon so yeah good for you guys i love you very fun so as you're going through the 129 how much of it was sallie mae about 75 000. a little over half that two master's degrees in there so at what point when you were going through there did you kind of top the mountain and you go ah we're gonna make it you know that kind of that breakthrough emotional thing like you go over and you go yeah we got this i think for me i think at the halfway point it was just like because it's that upward upward upward climb and then once we got to the halfway point i was like it's downhill from here so like 65 000. yeah and for me at least i mean certainly there were times that were tough after that where you were like this is never going to end but really and truly once you crested the hill and you were coming down the other side it was like you know like the wheels came off it's like let's go when we got through everything that wasn't student loans it got real to me i was like all right this is this is serious let's do it and then i looked down i was like i'm running downhill now yeah oh wow okay but it was still 75 000 to go yeah yeah which is a lot but yeah but but it's not it's not about the math sometimes it's just the way you're feeling about it and you're going got it got it wow we're doing this you know there's that moment where you kind of break through this is really gonna happen absolutely this is not a theory this is happening to me yeah it's really there's this there's a thing that happens somewhere in there for everyone and it did for sharon and i too so way to go you guys i'm so proud of you again we've got a copy of the total money makeover an extra copy for you to give away and that'll be a way to pay it forward and help somebody else get started on this and copy the legacy journey for you guys because that's the next step for you because you got a two-year-old legacy we're changing our family tree here absolutely we got real reason to do all of this very very cool so proud of y'all thank you well done well done thank you all right michael and amanda raleigh north carolina 129 000 paid off in three years making 144 to 127. count it down let's hear a debt free scream three two one we're [Music] dead [Applause] [Music] we've been doing this a long time and you know what the only thing i'm positive of if you're listening to us right now you can do this absolutely 129 thousand dollars 28 in debt paid off in three years if if you don't get encouragement from that i don't know what else can give you encouragement but in every case it's someone who looked up and saw a mountain and said okay we need a path to the top of the mountain yeah we need a path we need a way to get there we need the climbing gear we're going to learn how to do it we're going to you know and it's always you know we're gonna listen to podcasts we're gonna get on the budget with every dollar we're gonna go through financial peace university and ramsey plus we're gonna read total money makeover we're gonna read debt-free degree and send their kids to school debt-free in every case they got the toolbox yes and they filled up the tools and they said there's the mountain and there's the path and here's the map and let's go do it and it's not easy nope but it's worth it yes so and with the plan it's easier and it's there for everyone yes sir you i'm talking to you yeah you this is the ramsey chef [Music] [Music] so [Music] our scripture of the day matthew 6 34 do not worry about tomorrow for tomorrow will worry about itself each day has enough trouble of its own margaret thatcher said you may have to fight a battle more than once to win it now that's the truth uh some of these battles are just what are known as ongoing oh well this is what happens uh better a wounded warrior than to have never been in the battle open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five you jump in we'll talk about your life and your money anthony o'neil ramsey personality is my co-host today jake is in san diego hi jake welcome to the ramsey show hi dave very excited to speak with you i am currently 24 years old and i just graduated from law school i have 130 000 dollars in debt all of its student loans i am starting a job taking the bar in july and starting a job the first week of october that job is going to allow me to refinance through a bank at about two percent and then uh fixed and then on top of that i'm gonna be making 190 000 plus bonus my question for you today is does it make sense while i'm in baby step two and aggressively paying down the 130 000 to max my 401k and a health savings account no that's that's that's uh baby step four yeah well what did you what did you make this year this year i didn't technically work but the firm i'm going to be working for sent me about 40 40 000 and i had another job so it's 46 000. so did you pay any of that on to the student loans i paid tuition for my final year and before i started listening to you i actually funded a wrap okay okay all right so what my challenge would be would be to live like a college student you know what if i woke up in your shoes i think you have landed an unbelievably awesome job absolutely and you have an unbelievably awesome future ahead of you would you agree with that uh yes did i understand you correctly to say at 24 years old you're going to be making 190 000 next year uh yes okay and you owe 130 000 in student loan debt yes you know what i would do i would live on nothing and i would be debt-free in one year absolutely okay can you stay home jake um i can't because of where my job is but so i'm gonna have to pay rent and stuff um where's the truck i'm working it's gonna be in new york city and the hours are gonna be very long but um as in manhattan yeah okay you are not gonna be debt-free in one year you're not yeah okay but you're going to be debt-free in two years yeah okay yeah you're not gonna definitely you're not gonna you're not gonna be able to buy housing and you're not gonna pay for housing of any kind in new york city and do what i was talking about so you cannot live on absolutely nothing but just the same you've still landed a wonderful income yes and congratulations you obviously were quite a star pupil in your law school because you got recruited by a big time firm that's paying you big time money way to go i'm so proud of you yeah well done but listen don't fall into the trap of doing what a bunch of the goobs that got recruited with you will do don't do it these goobs will be in debt for ten years because it's two percent you don't want to pay out two percent bull crap son pay it off now [Music] fast okay fast attack it bro as fast as you can and jake this means you you need to look for roommates in new york you you need to really i mean bro you are living as cheap and as low as possible they're going to work you 80 hours a week anyway you're not going to have time to do anything but work right yeah what i'm expecting yeah your first year out they're going to try to kill you that's your job yeah so yeah just just work all the time do nothing and pay debt and do that for a year and a half to two years you'll be free and all of your compadres all of your peers will still be struggling with 100 to 200 to 300 000 worth of student loan debt and they'll all be walking around the halls with their lips stuck out and making a ton of money and have no money yeah and you son will be on your way if you'll do what i say to do not many people will do this but let me tell you wealth is weird even in the hallways of big time law firms in new york city wealth is weird there's a lot of people walking around with their chest stuck out act like they've got something and all they got is payments don't be one of those i want you to look and act like you are poor because you are you are deeply in debt and clean this mess up as fast as you can now i don't know if you'll do it or not but man if you don't this conversation's gonna haunt you later sure will it sure will man he could be free so what a killer job man he'll be uh he's a stud yeah and he's a lawyer i mean his and if he works it right dave his income is gonna go up yeah and he's making a 400 million dollars with no debt no doubt in no time at 24 years old man what was i doing ding ding ding ding well it wasn't law school my show was so and i'm so mad if it hadn't been i wouldn't have been one of those but anyway i i didn't qualify for that but it's still very cool and the point is mathematically if you will lean into this he has he has a future that's so bright susan's with us susan's in memphis hi susan how are you good and yourself better than i deserve how can anthony and i help i have a question kind of twofold i have a daughter who came out of a four-year undergraduate program debt-free we were able to get our gifts to each four kids is four years debt-free now she's in a graduate program in a veterinarian school and you know welcome to adulting she took out loans to pay for school so after four years of school she will be in debt probably around 160 to 180 000 so you know as a parent of grown children i've been really kind of talking to her about you know do you want to just pay some interest off can you get in the habit of even if it's 100 a month just just pay something off on it to get her to be disciplined toward that she's asking me mom do i need to open up a roth ira right now with the money i get from grandparents from just the odd jobs that she's able to do she's very industrious she's already gotten a job over the summer but i think she's a little confused about what she needs to do first or second while she's living on loans and just studying you know 21 hours each semester so do you guys have some steps for her well suzanne here's the thing that i really want to challenge you on it that you may not like um i think but instead of for taking the money to have your daughter pay towards her loans i want to kind of challenge you a little bit and suggest a different route which is have her take that extra money and start paying it towards her school now okay as far as so this way she can stop borrowing as much money now you're right it may not be a whole lot but if she has an extra 500 she needs to put that towards her school not into a roth ira not into investments not even into paying off the key thing is i want her to stop borrowing as much money as possible and then from there once she graduates college then we can have a conversation on how to start paying off debt but i want her to stop building up the pal that that's the conversation i will be having with your daughter at this present time yeah as fast as she can as much as she can limit the borrowing or down to no new borrowing and then the next step will be to clear the debt and the roth iras are way after that she does not need to worry about investing right now she's broke yeah and getting brokered about a minute yes she is and she's actually going down on her housing by moving in with somebody else by 500 a month so she is trying to lower her her monthly quote installments because she only gets a certain amount and where she's trying to borrow the least that she can but you guys would not even if it's just a little bit of her getting a habit okay the habit is don't borrow more exactly okay everyone he's wonderful thank you yeah every one of those dollars is avoid going further into debt further in debt further into debt um because that's just the l that's less of a mess to clean up when you get out absolutely and um that's where because the opposite is what usually happens is that people just go and borrow for everything they buy a car they run an apartment with a skylight at jacuzzi and racquetball court and it's all on government-funded student loans yes as if that were necessary for education and that she's not doing that that's what a lot of people do right good show anthony hey thank you dave thank you america good job man james childs and kelly daniels in the booth i am dave ramsey your host we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace christ jesus [Music] did you know you can listen to the ramsay show on your smart speaker just tell alexa google assistant or siri to play the ramsay show podcast check out all ramsay network shows on 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Channel: The Ramsey Show - Full Episodes

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Id: sVeM9ur_B3U

Length: 121min 50sec (7310 seconds)

Published: Mon May 24 2021