Cyntoia Brown: Free At Last | expediTIously Podcast

the things that you know adults are teaching children consciously and subconsciously and I really think that it's time for you know a shift in our cultural norm today is a very special installment of expeditiously today's guest is a person whose real life story I first learned about it a few years ago and just like everybody else I was outraged after her case went viral me and other celebrities and other just people who want to maintain fair and decent treatment of women and children and we stood up announced at the car after being convicted and sentenced to life in prison in the 2004 murder of Johnny Allen a 43 year-old Nashville real estate agent I guess today say Allen picked her up for sex in East Nashville she shot him as he lay in bed next to her to defend her own life and escape the terror that she was being subjected to she told police that he was reaching for a gun right for the soul she did what was necessary in those circumstances she was 16 at the time her story galvanized the celebrity community and the community at large who began championing her release and now her new memoir free centaurea my search for redemption in the American prison system centaurea chronicles her journey leading up to and during her time at the Tennessee Prison for Women in Nashville please welcome finally after all this time to expeditiously the Queen sentorria Browne long what's going on Amen today man this old man is it's just truly feels like a blessing to see you here enjoying the the liberties of life as you should be after so long I can't start this conversation without saying how proud I am and many others are of you your story it angered and inspired and motivated people around the world and I be remiss not to make that statement my first course of business do you ever get tired of telling this story or hearing about it you know sometimes it's not always comfortable and you know sometimes it can be like well I'd rather talk about other things but I just keep reminding myself that God gave me the testimony for a reason right and so many other people can be helped by it and I mean who cares if it's a little repetitive who cares if it's a little uncomfortable like you do you know there's a lot of sakes oh I get it I mean so how many years like did you actually serve I actually served 15 years to the to the tea man I mean like so what was your mindset like let's say before your case went viral were you already kind of like digging into the law library and what was your mindset at that moment before all of this came to a head so from the time that I was arrested I was told that I'd be tried as an adult you know I started learning everything that I could about the law I asked my lawyers you know bring me in whatever you can write the Black's Law Dictionary but she brought me I still have it it's tattered so I started digging in to really trying to understand everything that I could and I continued that I always made sure that I researched I didn't really rely on just leaving in the hands of lawyers although I had capable lawyers so I had always know how to go love you like you you're always your own best advocate is real and so I would I was in that place and I was getting lawyers who were extremely experienced who knew judges in appellate courts and I'm thinking each time okay this is gonna be it because this guy knows this guy obviously yeah but appeal after appeal it just kept getting denied and I kept holding on to the hope that I would get out someday right but in November 2016 my last appeal was denied my federal habeas corpus mm-hmm and clemency there's literally a slim to none chance that anybody ever even received a recognition of their petition by the parole board it's less than a 1% chance and that was my only chance that time and I remember it was like March 2017 okay I was talking to my husband and I just really just broke down because I was like I may actually do life in prison mmm you know and when he had first wrote me he said you know God is bigger than any sentence he's bigger than any judge any jury he can turn it around and he will he's already said he's gonna do it for you right uh and so he asked me point-blank are you gonna believe man's report are you gonna believe what God said I said you know I'm just gonna have faith in God and when I started getting closer and developing a relationship with him I started to see how things just started turning around without me doing anything right the appeal that you know a federal appeal federal habeas appeal you have to get permission to appeal that they told me it was dismissed and I couldn't appeal it it was dead it got real prejudice it was dead and it got reopened and it was like wow and fast forward four or five months out of nowhere out of nowhere all of a sudden I'm going into the school and the teacher says girl have your people been on Instagram I'm like she said T I tweeted about you I was like that's it's probably not real it's probably a fake account fake account and it just kept coming so rapidly and I started to see how God had such people all across the world yeah I was coming from a place where you know we're not seen we're not heard from and to see so many people just just stand up like it really did give me hope man I think you know it it it it infuriated me that a judge couldn't see that a 16 year old found reasoning to take such a necessary action due to the the what she what she was being subjected to and said that that's no reason for her to take this white man's life that's what I saw when I and that made me upset and that's why you know I began to make phone calls and post stuff and just figure out what's the play and everybody said only way to do it is to get to the governor and you know I thought that if but you know what before I get into that let me ask you this when Haslam the former governor of Tennessee took the rare step of granting you clemency commuting a mandatory 51 years behind bars the 15 years time surge what do you think inclined him or promoted him or motivated him to do all of a sudden because this wasn't the first he'd heard of you cases yeah um well this actually was you know in the beginning we had already before the the things started to go tomorrow we had already been in contact with his chief of staff the attorney and the counsel for the governor to and so we were really just getting advice on how to move forward strategically with filing the clemency petition okay and so when you first reached out to him about it he was receptive well we hadn't talked to him we had talked to these people who kind of giving me some pointers some pointers and everything was done very quietly oh and so whenever this happened I was like really nervous because in a state like Tennessee they all like attention no yeah it's and that makes them even more critical that makes him even more skeptical and you have to think we're dealing with a man who this may not be the end of his political career he may decide to run again he's a Republican governor sure so we were really worried but he made it very clear that he was gonna focus on the petition he wasn't gonna allow the sheer amount of attention to make him pay any more or less attention because he didn't want to come across as him being unfair to others or here to me so I was really grateful for that that was Noble yeah and so you know he decided that you know fifty-one years is too long for someone and especially when you see that they've made such strides to change their lives and I mean especially when their acts were taken in self-defense I mean of course I'm by you so you know this is not going to be a neutral interview have a have a point and position and I'm maintaining it so if you don't like it you can stop listening now you said in an interview that you spent time with the former governor and his wife and I think this is a true example because I saved people all the time it's not about black or white it's not about Republican or Democrat it's about decent and indeed you know fair and decent people who feel like you know people should be treated the way they like to be treated they behave a certain way the other people who think that they should be treated differently from everybody else because of the color of their skin they behave a certain way and whichever side you own whatever color you are that's just what it is but you said that you you spent time with the governor and his wife the former governor and his wife and he shared with you that he wish he'd read your book before leaving office why do you think he said you know one of the things that I've learned about being in prison the people that can really change things they have the power to change things they don't always know what's really going on they don't always know the truth a lot of things get covered up by the captains by the wardens of Commissioners and a lot of times they're really going off of information that people are feeding them and they're being did they're being given oh yeah and it's not always definitely these and advisers have agendas you know more so than anybody else yes I think for him it was it was just sobering like seeing how many times that I had had interaction with the state how many times there were points of intervention how many times they could have get got it right but they didn't right and you know for him to for that to come to his awareness it was like there was things that I as a governor could have done mmm and I wish I knew these things and that's amazing I mean so what you think back to sixteen-year-old centaurea like what was missing or going on in your life that you felt that you had to resort to such such a thing it's such a it's so young in your life you know and that's another reason why I wanted to really just dive into everything that happened leading up because there was a pattern okay you know there was a pattern of wanting to feel like I was accepted me feeling that I had been outcast and I wanted to find somewhere where I belong right and it had got to the point where I was just desperate desperate to be accepted desperate to be wanted and you know there was someone who picked up on that exploited that right I mean I think a lot of good and I have daughters you know so it's incredibly like important and a priority for me to to make sure that that their options are always listed in abundance but to young ladies who may may be in homes that you know aren't as stable or whole as they should be for their proper upbringing what advice can you give someone you know one of the things I had to learn especially being in prison is you don't have to be a product of your environment that's right you don't have your actions don't have to be defined by the circumstances you're in or the things that you're taught there's always people who are willing to be positive influences there are so many groups out here in the community who are working with young girls working to temp our young girls and you know my thing is I spent so much time trying to peas other people right I didn't have to do that all along like I don't have to do anything to deserve God's love that's right I don't and there's always gonna be somebody who has something negative to say there's always gonna be somebody who feels that you know I don't belong that they're gonna try to count me out cast me out cancel me out right so I mean it's it's it's pointless to try to live my life to please other people and I wish I knew that when I was 16 right I mean I think a lot of people you know go through that there face some some phases are longer than others where you know they just they just search for acceptance they search for validation everywhere but within you know what I mean and I think that that's that's an excellent message so now so in during your sentence because time is hard to do you don't have saying like it's like did nobody know anyone who's been in these situations a certain that ever was like oh yeah that [ __ ] was a breeze you know what I mean time is like time is hard to do to be away from your family it's the little things waking up and opening the refrigerator seeing the light come on you know what I'm saying like the little things that you miss that that make it more mental than physical a lot of people think oh it's dangerous and you know you get stabbed and beat up and but that's you know that's trivial compared to the mental anguish that the end the psyche and the psyche at the psychiatric issues that you face going through a lengthy period of time especially if there's any solitary confinement involved with the CEO will be some real dicks too you know I'll tell my life for real you ain't never ran none of your life have you imagined - absolutely no authority nowhere else this is the only place where you come and assert some artificial authority on people why would you do that like why would that anyway so during your time to take your mind off the [ __ ] tell you know tell the people like what are some books that you that you've read they really kind of help your growth and helped your evolution so one of the first books that I read and that I really lived was called I am now by Martin Buber and I endow I am thou okay and it's a it talks a lot of it's a philosophical book it's a hard read like I have to read it like five times and I was living through the dictionary right and taking notes all right and it's about relation it's about like honest relation not the the superficial and not the you know the the meaningless or really just trying to use people but like really getting to know like people for people in their relation and the second book was Jesus and the disinherited by Howard Thurman and I would start to read that book years later and it's actually a book that Martin Luther King jr. would carry around with him okay yeah and so that was a really good book rules for radicals by Saul Alinsky was a solid key I think was Saul Alinsky rules for radicals okay so that just really taught me like you know how to be your own advocate basic that's real so those three books were some of the closest to me but the most important the most meaningful okay was absolutely the Bible I had always heard a lot about it and assumed I'm you know what I actually sat down to read it the thing about the Bible and I always give the Bible I will at me I get a Bible a tough time you know I'm saying because of how many times man has gone in and rewritten it to suit his own needs but I can say that it still holds true to this very day no matter what you're going through you could just pick up a Bible open it up start reading and right there where you start reading will be an answer to something that you're going through in your life at the time what was like a groundbreaker I tell me like some groundbreaking lessons early on in your sentence that you kind of had to learn to allow you to mature and kind of adapt somewhere to your environment really just start paying more attention and observant to the people right around me you know I was used to always just walking in a situation just kind of blindly and you know I was on solitary confinement for two years before I was ever allowed to be out with other people kind of just jumped in the mix not really knowing what was going on found myself back on max for another year it was well I started in solitary moment at 16 in 1618 and then when I came to prison I had got in a fight and went back for a year when I was I think was 18 I had just turned 19 so you spent your 18th birthday in solitary confinement Dan you know I think in a lot of kids I hear men who run around and I really like you know just carry on with actions and engaging activities with no consideration of the consequences where it could land them how it could affect their futures they don't think about those things you know I didn't know no I know that like they never they never think about those things and I think it's important for all us who have who have experience they'll endure those types of those types of horrible conditions to let kids know that you like don't over spot yourself find out what you can handle some of y'all kainene take being on punishment can't use your phones you can't right so let alone being tossed in a 5x7 you know what I'm saying and and and can't see the light of day and have all of your freedoms and liberties snatched away from you forced to do nothing but read and speak to yourself like if that's not really where you want to be and anyway you want to take your life you should be considerate of that as you choose to engage in certain activities I think that's and like you said kids are usually used to just walking into situations no strategy no evaluation of it just kind of died here first into the frozen lake hoping they Nick strong you know I'm saying I think that these kinds of testimonies are incredibly important now with your book I mean when did you start writing a book I had tried to write for several years I was always told that I should I should write a book you know I should tell my story and I don't know if it was because I didn't feel that it was finished I didn't know I struggled with how how to put it and just I would start I would stop at one point my manuscript even came up missing shakedown and it just was never coming together and so I want to say December either late November and December 2018 okay actually at a church service where I had worked in the chapel okay and one of the volunteers had said God said write the book are you serious yes just that the blue yeah God see it write the book and I was like you know so I go back and I call my husband and I'm like what do you think about this and we pray about it and he was like write the book and so I start to write it and it just starts flowing out of me I'm okay I was cranking out like two chapters in a week and within three months I had my manuscript finished that's amazing started working with a writer that took three more months so now free Center you're my search for redemption in the American prison system is available wherever people go audiobooks as well for those of you lazy [ __ ] to steer I don't want to read and okay so we we mentioned you know we've made mention of your husband and and you recently got married to a young man that many of us may have came to know as part of an army group that you know had quite a few hits in early 2000 but I want to offer him an opportunity you know to speak and share his perspective as well could we could we get another mic set up as well so tell me how how did how did you guys meet what was what was the beginning of this romance so the beginning of this there we go we want to hear him I would like for you how did it begin it began I was sitting on my bed after mail call and I opened up a letter from someone in Texas okay edges a little were burnt I was like that's interesting like that before in I started reading sauce pictures and wrote him back okay didn't really know if anything would transpire from there but you know we started riding back and forth talking on the phone as you know I'm very expensive phone calls right oh like hours a day and you know I met my best friend and he was there for me on all those moments that you talked about when it's hard when you feel like you're trapped and like you just feel helpless hmm and you don't always want to talk to your mom you always want to talk to your family and know what you're really going through a very personal stuff yeah and he was that he was that person for me whoa been a while man he knows there so so for those who don't know you were you a member of no the supergroup Pretty Ricky back there about 12 years ago after after pleasure and left I came in I was there for a little while right oh it was a job meet oh it was a job when I was trying to you know okay so you wasn't around so you weren't a part of the original got you so I came in did a job no I wouldn't look for fame and I like that right you seem like a pretty reserved kid like to you soon I mean according to the internet I'm not I'm a cloud chaser I mean I'm pretty sure you know don't nobody care about me I will I know you have Christians in the room but you know I will lean on the benefit of the forgive the blood of Jesus for my forgiveness when I say [ __ ] them people man you know I really don't care in the back none of that [ __ ] that [ __ ] is for the berries because as long as you can't you must live your life for you you must I mean but at the same time man you know we we there's so many eyes on us man you know and uh we want to be the perfect examples man because it's my wife situation it wasn't just for her it affects a lot of other people if we could control the narrative and keep the narrative true because we live in our truth now ok so let's take let's go back to before the edges of the letters were burned let's go before ok we want to get into what made you burn the edges of the letter but even prior to that what made you write this until you how did you find out about her honestly man like I say I was I was sitting in my room I had writer's block one day I was doing still doing other things 2017 January 2017 ok and I seen her on YouTube in my room you know it had been posted on there for a few days and I clicked it I seen it was like an hour long in our lay no way off in the watch this whole thing cuz i don't watch TV that long right I would later I'm looking at the TV like wow that was crazy yeah this ain't right right I walked out the room before I could get back to the other part of the crib I was going to I felt it in my spirit - right I didn't know what to say right you know I put the pen to the paper and it was just like hey how you doing my name is Jay my name is Jamie people called me Jake yeah you getting out of prison prepare yourself your friend to get out of prison and put the paper and I put the little hash tag the freezing toy your hash tag at the bottom I put it in the envelope before it was actually it's like putting in envelope and some told me pull it back out and burn the edges and that's what I did and you know that's what caught our attention you know I'm saying so I didn't expect no reply back I was doing what I was doing I mean I don't think at that time in my life I was like yeah I'm about to marry somebody in prison you would have told me that Dad I would black you crazy you know I mean I'm living a pretty comfortable life got a business running successful can do it I want to do go I want to do yeah I money straight I'm good okay what any fears or concerns or like apprehensions going into it like what a person who was not only facing who was not only like serving the life sentence but who had become the face of a very taboo topic you know what I mean like the death scene like about that type of topic I mean sexual abuse sex trafficking you know I mean like was there any apprehension there no fears in faith man our story is a faith story that's really no fears and faith brother you got to pursue it be obedient to what the Lord is telling you or go sit down somewhere and let somebody else do it that's really he gave me an assignment I did it and you're looking at it so I must not have been lying no really they say a picture's worth a thousand words and presence is worth of millions I mean so as you begin your advocacy efforts like what are the greatest challenges that you're facing right now at this stage in life for you you know honestly I feel I don't really feel I have any real challenges hmm I think that I've I've overcome the greatest challenge of all so everything else is just I mean that's that's small you know what we get out of pretty and I say that like I said I don't say I sir why no time compared to you but but a guy told me man who had been surfing like you know about 12 years when I got and you know saying like you know I cats were asked me you know saying about my time in my experience I mean I don't want to talk about I'd be damned if I talk about my pain and you know me not wanting to be here for my goddamn hearing the day in here y'all this it doesn't been in here year then the old man said look this is something I've been here 13 years and I no more ready to go today then that was the first day I got here yeah I mean but one thing I can say that once we get out of there though nothing else seems like a big deal anymore know what you said like the challenges that I'm facing it's a blessing sure that I can be dealing with these things right and I always carry them with me the people that I find I always think that they would love this opportunity so for me if I didn't have to say something that you know that I carry that I feel like you know this is this is a challenge that that I'm facing you know getting people to understand like to look at me and say okay well maybe there are other people who deserve second chances maybe you know I was wrong maybe we do need to change things reform is necessary because I know they're counting on it I can remember when I was sitting in there and any time I would hear someone speak about prison reform about changing laws you know we get so hopeful we get so happy you know because I mean they depend on that they're trapped in there a lot of them don't have a pills left and they're they're just hoping for change I mean man do you have an amazing spirit both of you I support you you know saying I look forward to what you guys will be able to do in the future and speaking of what you'll be able to do in the future tell me what's next what's next for Centauri so we're actually working with our attorneys on starting a non-profit the jframe foundation or also known as the foundation for justice freedom and mercy mm-hmm we're hoping to be operational by next year and one of our first campaigns is actually gonna be the Glitter project which was something that I had started when I was in college there at the prison okay and it's the grassroots learning initiative on teen trafficking exploitation and rape mmm and that was actually the interview that that just started everything going viral was actually supposed to be me talking about the Glitter project and I had only mentioned clemency just enough for people to know I wanted and you know that became the story but it really started with me feeling that it was necessary for us to begin to talking about you know all the different factors that come into play with making girls more vulnerable to being exploited so the messaging that we take in around us the things that you know adults are teaching children consciously and subconsciously and I really think that it's time for you know a shift in our cultural norms when it comes to that and and so that's that's all you're working on I think this this phenomena and you know our efforts are aligned because I'm after finding out the Atlanta was the number one who ever liked the capital for sex trafficking and like for the sake of my daughter's I feel I feel the need to get involved you know so now I've spoken to my governor who reached out to me after he saw a video that me and tiana Taylor did and and we we working with his wife to do PSAs and just kind of go about putting some kind of programs together that they could kind of offer alternatives and you know and kind of just prevent preventive maintenance for girls who feel like they don't have another way out yeah I mean a lot of people don't even know what I happened to missing yeah you know what I mean my children are coming up missing it's a real sex slave trade that is you know the dark web is real the the real like secret societies and super rich people who think that they could actually buy human beings and use them for whatever they want to and if you have runaway girls if you have people who feel like you know both of their parents are kind of uninvolved they don't have no real guardian so well nobody miss them if they come up missing I - it is real even down to the uber drivers and you know I'm saying like they it's some overdrive or some people who have scanners who try to take figure out what uber driver for uber drivers say he's gonna come pick you up here it's people out there who trying to beat the uber driver there impersonate the uber driver to get you in the car and it take you to a unknown location and do whatever they don't always have to kidnap you mmm thank you turning the treat most domestic minor sex trafficking you know it doesn't happen like that you run into what you call these Romeo pimps you know a lot like my situation where you can be dead in the center of it and not even know when I was doing what I was doing you couldn't tell me that that was what was happening with me I was in a relationship what do you mean like this is my man I'm just doing what I'm supposed to do to bring stuff to the table right and you know there's a lot of people in society who reinforced that belief who will say that they're just some young girls who are fast some young girls who were just promiscuous right and you know when doing that that's misidentification of people who are actually victims and there's no such thing as a teenage prostitute there's no such thing as a minor who was consenting to her own exploitation and you know we as a society don't really understand that there's people in law enforcement who don't understand that so I mean that's that's a big start we need to really understand what it means to be a trafficking victim in this country absolutely not and for that reason I'm glad that we're having this discussion I thank you so much that we could do together and I would enforce your efforts to bring awareness and prevention and I would ask if you are okay with it that we do a PSA together I would love to okay cool cool Evelina you know sure you guys get a bang and J what what you say you have a company like what is it that you would like to share about your company congratulations rose congratulation man good for y'all I'm happy that you guys found love and that you were finally United and you know your union is complete yeah me I really do appreciate the opportunity to sit down with you and thank you guys for making yourselves available thank you for everything that you're doing to just you know help give a voice to people who can't use their own you know what happened man my kids started getting old enough to have to actually go out and live in the world when my daughter you know my oldest daughter she started driving and she got her own career dan I got a 19 year old son and he got his own car he going you know you're going got his own career - going back and forth to school I got another son alright that was 18 out on tour you know I'm saying so also as all of these things began to happen to young teenage boys and girls I was at a position where I was having to let go kinda of my children and send them off to create their own lives for themselves so I felt that if I hadn't gained all this notoriety all this influence and did absolutely nothing with it that would help make the environment or the make the world a better place for them to live in and I will I feel like I would have squandered I mean it affects us all even people who don't think that it affects you because you've never done anything in your life doesn't mean it can't they're just one decision away yes this is true especially the way you know policemen deal with our young black boys and women you know the males and females men and women girls and boys are all being shot down and murdered tune with no accountability and the atrocities that are happening in our communities every day they was you may stay right man okay so here expeditiously right we have a thing we do it's called word of the week all right all right so word of the week is a word that we select from the dictionary of my vocabulary and it's a word that I think that that is indicative of the discussion and it represents the guest for the day so this word for the week is clemency now clemency is a word that we hear but I want to make sure that we understand what it means in both regular sense of the word and legal sense right so the definition of clemency is mercy lenience kind gentle or compassionate treatment you know I think that we can all agree that clemency was definitely warranted in your case but i'ma use it in a sentence just for those of y'all you know I'm saying who too lazy to do it yourself and he said you know when I use it in a sentence just use your context clues you could take it to work tomorrow take it to school use it like you've been knowing at all your life centaurea brown was rightfully granted clemency after 15 years in prison that was a short sentence you can go and make another fancy one for yourself if you like but that was - so thank you missing toy you're brown long and Thank You J for coming in and and being a part of this discussion today thank you guys for listening this has been expeditiously watch your favorite episodes of expeditiously right now on the expeditiously you to pay [Music] you [Music]

Channel: expediTIously with Tip T.I. Harris

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Keywords: T.I., Tip, Harris, Podcast, Hip-Hop, Atlanta, ATL, Rap, kodak black, tip harris, podcast clips, podcasts, expeditiously podcast, expeditiously, ti podcast, cyntoia brown, cyntoia brown long, cyntoia brown free at last, cyntoia brown expeditiously, cyntoia brown prison, cyntoia brown clemency, cyntoia brown ti, cyntoia brown podcast, cyntoia brown ti podcast, cyntoia brown full episode, cyntoia brown long jail, cyntoia brown interview

Id: w3o6Aky3zLE

Length: 37min 55sec (2275 seconds)

Published: Tue May 12 2020