Conversational Narcissist | The Signs

[Music] hi i'm kyle kittleson with med circle joined by clinical psychologist dr romini nice to see you dr ramon it's good to see you too kyle we're talking about perhaps everyone's quote favorite topic for lack of a better term narcissism specifically understanding the conversational narcissist a term i have not heard what is a conversational narcissist you know what they are kyle you just didn't know you already knew these are the folks that monopolize the conversation but in a unique way they always make it about them so let's say you and i i don't know we're talking about florida okay and you're telling me about a vacation you took there and a place you saw and a fishing trip you went on and i say well i've been to florida and then i start yammering on about blah blah blah what i know about miami and i might even use that as an opportunity to say oh kyle nobody stays at that hotel they only stay you know what i'm saying so it's it's a sort of a conversational hijack but it's not something that happens once it happens all the time so much so that over time the conversational narcissist is someone who's sort of seen as the person who's always holding court it's really not a conversation it's more a performance and everyone's sort of going to listen to this person and in a way there's also a really there's sort of this sort of superiority they bring to it they often know better than other people oh you don't know this or i happen to know somebody who's in charge of this or in charge of that they always seem to know someone or they seem to have some level of authority in it and and so over time i think a lot of people almost feel you know kind of cowed over by such a person in the sense that they feel like well they're talking and i've got nothing to say because a lot of us sort of feel a certain insecurity and what we think we know and the conversational narcissist not only hijacks the conversation they can often leave other people like i said who often i wouldn't even want to call them insecure i think a lot of us just sort of know what we know and know what we don't know we'll hold back you know and they'll just keep talking and talking and people will assume that they're right so it's actually a very it's not a conversation it's sort of a one-sided performance when you're having a chat with a conversational narcissist oh yes i i've met this person many times and in fact when i was living in los angeles i used to say the only thing i'm looking for when i meet somebody new is if they ask me one question about myself it was such a rarity that if i met somebody who asked me one question and not the question so are you in the industry because then they're just trying to figure out if they can use me somehow but a question about myself it i was just oh my gosh you're a diamond in the rough why is it important to differentiate this from the more traditional definitions of narcissism i think the conversational narcissist actually i think it's sort of a style that gets embedded into the larger sort of picture of narcissism now not all people who are sort of narcissistic in the traditional way the ones who lack empathy entitled grandiose the usual laundry list i've talked about repeatedly on med circle not all of them are conversational narcissists i think it's sort of a sub it's like a sub behavior if you will in narcissism i do think though kyle that and i think the term is a little unfortunate because we might be better off almost calling them conversational hijackers because there are some people out there that they're not necessarily they don't may not necessarily have the whole toxic spectrum of narcissism but for other reasons they may be the people who hijack the conversa the conversation these may be people who hold a lot of privilege they may be so in other words nobody ever calls them out and they kind of get away with it they may in some cases two pile people be people who are socially anxious they only know they're it's almost hard for them to just be present with someone else's saying something and they're not necessarily trying to overpower them but the conversational narcissist may be somebody who doesn't know how to keep the conversation going unless they talk about something that they're an expert in and that kind of almost helps them feel more comfortable but because of their anxiety they're almost too overwhelmed to fully be aware that this is not cool for the other person however if the conversational hijacking style is much more due to social anxiety if you confronted that person and said hey i just wanted to tell you you made that whole conversation about you a person who does it from solely a socially anxious place will say oh my goodness i am so sorry and i feel so awkward and they may integrate the feedback they also may also feel quite terrible about it but if you went to a narcissist and said you just hijacked the conversation the narcissist will probably just let you have it get angry they'll deny they'll deflect they'll do the whole usual bag of tricks so it's a different approach depending on what sort of driving that conversational hijacking but i think it's sort of a it's a pattern we see in a not unsubstantial not insubstantial number of narcissists for the conversational narcissist or conversational hijacker would you find people who only do this in social settings but when they are one-on-one or in a romantic relationship they're able to be quiet and let that other person share and speak no i think when it's embedded in the pattern of the conversational narcissism it's pervasive and it's consistent so in other words they'll do exactly the same thing to their partner they'll never listen they'll always turn the conversation back to themselves they'll talk over the other person um they'll always try to come off as the expert they'll often be quite contemptuous and dismissive of the other person saying i know this you don't know this that sort of thing so i think that it's a it definitely um it definitely is something that is across all settings they're like this at work they're like this at family gatherings they're at distant social gatherings they're like this with their partners i don't think that they ever really turn it off and they don't implement feedback i love to talk okay i love it my friends that i hang out with the most i notice allow me a lot of space to talk and so i'm naturally attracted to them because i get to speak which i like is there a uh is there signs i should look out for that would say hey kyle it's great that you like to talk and you know have fun with your friends but you're going too far you are now being somebody who doesn't add value to the conversation you're being somebody who hijacks the conversation a couple of things first of all i want to give you because i have the luxury of having a position of having having known you for years and having spent many many hours with you kyle i will tell you having been in your presence even though you like to talk your curiosity about other people is sort of endless so you may like to talk but you have no idea how often you're talking is actually asking questions i know this only because i've been in your presence and i i know that for example i've never looked forward to being with a conversational narcissist because unless i really am interested in what they have to say like it's going to school by and large you find it boring and i actually look forward to seeing you and i'm not saying that to blow smoke i'm saying that as another person in in your world who says oh i'm going to see kyla this morning this is going to be great versus like oh god you know i don't want to do this so i think one thing is you for anybody who might suspect this in themselves number one that's already a good sign if you even think this is something i'm doing you're there's a good chance this may not be you because you're even willing to take a step back and say uh did i make that about me the second thing is to take take a step back from that conversation and say what did i learn about the other people what do i now know about the other people and if you're like not as not as much as i should that's another sign that you might be that this kind of conversational narcissist a third sign is are people not inviting you back because over time suddenly it may come out the people like this isn't very fun to be with them so maybe when we're having a more intimate get-together and i know we're not in that time right now but we will be again but for having a more intimate get-together you're not being invited to the six-person dinner party because they don't want you to sort of sort of suck all the conversational oxygen out of the room that might also be another sign of it so but i think that anyone who's willing to be self-reflective enough to wonder is this me there's a decent chance it's not you and even if it is i think then it comes down to that i know i i must sound like a one-trick pony when i say this which is mindfulness are you able in a conversation to sort of sit with what the other person is saying i almost tell people always go in equip to any conversation with questions like aren't you genuinely curious about something and that's another thing to ask yourself am i genuinely curious about other people if somebody's saying the answer to that is no that's actually quite concerning because there's nothing more interesting than another person they've already got they've always got a story you just have to ask them the right questions to get to it but i think a conversational narcissist is genuinely not interested in the experience of other people when we were in social groups and social settings and you found yourself listening to a conversational narcissist how do you respond to that it depends on what they're saying kyle it's actually i do a couple of things i if it's really boring and i don't have to be interacting the whole space i often just go off i do some sort of mindful exercises i have like i um there's one mindful exercise i love like when someone's just talking at me they're saying nothing important they're wasting everyone's time i do what i call the descriptive exercise and it's a really great it's a great way to use a frustrating experience and turn it into a mindful experience and i just sort of look around the room and i write about the room in my head i'll say you know the tired morning light was straining to come in through the windows that were framed by you know and i really get lost and it's so good because honestly i'm so lost to the flight of fancy that sometimes they'll say romney romney and i'm like oh yes so it's great because it's like a little mini mental workout i'm doing and then i'm not actually getting worked up by the fact that this person is narcissistically sucking the oxygen out of the room sometimes i doodle sometimes i make grocery lists sometimes i answer emails it really depends on the situation but i think that it is a you know if they are saying something important i might take notes on what they're saying like they may just be that person who doesn't create space for someone else but when it's social kyle it is in my best moments i try to learn like are they saying something worth learning about even though i didn't quite sign up for a mini ted talk while i'm out to dinner i'll sort of see what i'm getting out of this and i'll pay attention but if not like i said i'll get lost in something descriptive i might excuse myself and go to the bathroom and take a really long walk back while i look at the surroundings i'm in like it just i think it's giving ourselves permission to exit when it's really really getting annoying because you know what's a very powerful intervention with a conversational narcissist to leave just leave you know and it's that's why i always say i gotta run to the restroom or or if there's a group and you can leave and leave someone else stuck holding the bag get up and leave because you know they they operate on the basis of an audience so if more and more that audience goes away i don't think that they noticed but if someday they looked up and nobody was there i think they'd take notice of that now i have for my own entertainment double down on the conversational narcissist so i feign incredible interest in what they're saying i ask really good questions about their topic i mean i'm all in as though i'm really enjoying it just because i get a kick out of their belief that they think they're really adding a lot of value because i'm irritated and that's how i handle it what do you think about that yeah we'd call that a paradoxical intervention and it you know it's amazing you have the patience for it i actually tipped my hat to you kyle so i don't think i have the same patience but it is paradoxical here's what's interesting kyle they're learning nothing from it they're actually thinking wow kyle's really i have to say i must be so interesting so now someone else is getting bothered by this person again because like well kyle thinks i'm interesting so you might be enabling this yes um if we are in a romantic relationship with a conversational narcissist how do we navigate that yeah that's really hard because people in relationships like this will feel like they're in something deeply one-sided the relation the relationship feels extraordinarily tedious and for people who may not perceive or actually have any means of if you will quote unquote escape from that relationship it's not something that they can end that they are sort of stuck in it i often tell people that probably one of your best strategies is if you've got a white knuckle it you know step away when you can but if you have to white knuckle those long soliloquys that this conversational narcissist is putting you through or even worse telling you don't know anything that they're the expert especially when they're in fact not when you in fact do know it i tell people one of the most important antidotes is that you have your own healthy robust social network that is reciprocal and mutual and listens to you because that literally can fill you up so you don't feel like you're living in an alternate universe so that when you are put up against that conversational narcissist again if nothing else it sort of becomes a tired exercise in mindfulness and just sort of tolerating it enduring it trying to find ways to avoid it and you know uh and putting up with it until you can figure out i mean a if if there is a way is if there's a pass out because in in a true conversational narcissistic sense it is not amenable to change these are people who will be will really face down with resentment being told that they are the ones who overwhelm the conversation or constantly bring it back to them or what really is challenging kyle for people in these relationships is let's say they do stand off against the conversational narcissist and say come on you always make it about you you always make it blah blah blah but whatever you know but the conversational narcissist quite often will turn into the victim stance oh i guess you just don't i mean i guess i do talk too much i never know when to shut up like i guess nobody wants to hear you know what never going to talk again the vault is closed i'm just listening and you're like oh my goodness you know so it's you know you're kind of and sometimes that sort of dramatic reaction can be really exhausting too and that then that victimized sense of later on you might actually genuinely ask them their opinion on something and they'll say i wouldn't want to talk too much and then you'll find yourself in this passive aggressive vortex and then you're going to ask yourself which one of these is the lesser of two evils is it possible that the only narcissistic trait somebody could hold is conversational narcissism where in the rest of their life at work anything outside of communication they're very empathic and giving and present it would be a little dicey kyle because conversational narcissism is almost predicated on a certain lack of empathy and lack of self-reflective capacity right and empathy a big chunk of empathy is self-reflective capacity so in that moment you're literally doing no self-monitoring and you're just going on and on and that's i guess that's why i said i gave you that little section that's corded off solely to social anxiety that there are some people out there that kind of will overtake a conversation because they are so anxious i think that subgroup of people are not at all narcissistic they're socially anxious and as a result you will see empathy and you won't see entitlement you'll actually see that they're they're actually quite kind quite helpful some in some cases too kyle and this is an interesting other sort of subset of these i call them more conversational hijackers are people who are deeply lonely and this is something we may start seeing in the post-pandemic world to be frank with you i don't think we know how to socialize anymore i think that a lot of us have been like zoom isn't the same and we're going to see someone else you know and i think that's going to be i'm noticing this even on social zoom calls is we're talking over and interrupting each other and that matters in zoom right because zoom's only set up for one person at a time or facetime or whatever to talk one at a time but when we get back into real life i think we might see some of this conversational hijacking happening a little more because people are lonely and i think sometimes lonely people who never ever ever feel heard may have a tendency to talk talk talk talk talk talk talk but there's ab this it's not from a um it's not from an unkind disrespectful place it's actually from a lonely place i would say that you'd almost want to pay attention to other behaviors they're showing is there an empathic kindness a presence and all of that in other areas that only when you're talking do they seem to overwhelm it this is a pattern i've seen in a few people who are in either who are truly lonely alone or and this is an interesting twist kyle talk about sort of the whole thing turning in on itself people who are in relationships with conversational narcissists so they're never heard that person when they go in with other people never being hurt in their primary relationship will be a little bit talk talk talk talk talk with people who are actually listening and it's so sad because they're actually really lovely people but they're not being heard in a very primary space so this is what i'm saying this is a lot more nuanced than we think but again that person may turn around and say oh my gosh i am taking up this whole conversation because i'm so excited to see you tell me a little about you and there's a correction then we wouldn't use this term really great insight i understand that perfectly dr romney this has been really wonderful uh to discuss there's always new layers of narcissism to peek into and thank you for providing that for us if you're interested in learning more from dr romini she has lots of videos and series at watch.medcircle.com or just use the links below this video and tonight we will be doing a live panel with dr romney and some of the other med circle doctors you can uh join that live panel submit your questions interact with other participants it'll be a very educational and inspiring evening we hope to see you there you can join using the links below dr romney thanks again i'm kyle kiddleson and remember whatever you're going through you got this [Music] you

Channel: MedCircle

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Keywords: narcissist, conversational narcissist, conversational, narcissistic, narcissistic personality disorder, narcissism, personality disorder, personality, disorder, personality disorders, borderline personality disorder, bpd, medcircle, dr ramani, mental health, mental illness, antisocial personality disorder, histrionic personality disorder, multiple personality disorder, psychology, video, borderline, youtube, psychopath, sociopath, signs, behavior, covert narcissist, narcissists, npd

Id: VJw1K1EI3RA

Length: 19min 27sec (1167 seconds)

Published: Thu Feb 04 2021