All right. Today we have a special guest with
us, Jonathan Decker from Cinema Therapy and Mended Light. Hello. Hi. Thanks for joining us.
Thanks for having me on the show. And you're going to be on both of my channels as well, so
we're doing some cross-pollination here. Yeah. Definitely check those out because it's gonna
be a lot of fun. Yeah. Yeah. And today we're going to be talking about conflict resolution
and conflict management when you or someone you interact with is a highly sensitive
person. What what's that supposed to mean? [Music] Hey guys. Real quick: it's mental
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If you want to take some time right now to pick up some new skills to work through your emotions
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Emotions, How to Journal for Mental Health, Coping Skills and Self-Care. The Grounding Skills
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out with a new anxiety course in the summer, probably. Anyway, check out the link below uh for
35% off. We're just running the sale for one week, so now's a great time to pick up a course if
you're interested. Okay. Back to the video. No, it's just an example, just a little taste, because
I - as - like you, we're both HSPs. Yeah. I'm absolutely an HSP. Absolutely. And it's taken
me a long time to like come to terms with that, a little bit. I think for a long time I felt a lot
of shame - Yeah - about how deeply feeling I am. And even the term sensitive, I think, for a lot
of people is uncomfortable because sensitive can be used as like a negative term. Right. Yeah.
Yeah. Like in our Western culture there's like so much emphasis put on like achieving and like
being goal-driven and like checking things off, like accomplishing and like looking a certain way.
People who are highly sensitive might have these wonderful gifts and talents that you admire in
like a friend or a partner or, I mean - even like some examples of highly sensitive people, like
Albert Einstein was a highly sensitive person, and he thought about things very deeply, and
he was able to empathize with people. He was able to advocate against war because he considered
things very differently than maybe someone who is like the typical physics man who's like, "Okay,
let's like check off the list and do the, yeah, tasks that physics men do." I don't know what
- like a closer personality - Right - who was a physicist would handle things differently than
maybe an HSP as a physicist. Well, and I'm not getting political or economical, I'm just saying
like, matter of fact, we're a capitalist society, so we value "go out and bring home the bacon."
That's right. "Go get it done and contribute to society and build the economy." And
and uh and on the whole we value that, and we value HSPs until we don't. Like we've,
most - we value HSPs when they serve us. I mean, most people love to have someone who empathizes,
who validates, who cares; they just don't like it when that person gets their feelings hurt or has a
hard time with criticism or feedback. This is like we're seeing a cultural shift on where people
are recognizing the gifts of highly sensitive people. Yes. Like I think they're they're
showing that this new generation coming up, they're more anxious, maybe, than any generation
in the past, but they're also more sensitive and more understanding because those traits are
being valued and parenting has changed a little bit - Yeah - where parents are learning to be
a little bit more gentle, a little bit more empathetic, like to to value the emotions of their
children instead of just valuing like obedience, getting it done, grades, like accomplishments,
stuff like that. I saw a meme the other day. Yes, I'm quoting a meme. I have a master's degree, but
we're not going to quote - Memes are important. But it was talking - somebody commented that this
this upcoming generation has the lowest level of uh of mechanical intelligence or the ability to
fix things or or to manage things than previous generations, and some, you know, and a young
person in their 20s, they commented, "Yeah, but I also have the emotional ability to tell
my daughter I love her. So there's that." Right. Yeah. And like that that skill of like having
emotional intelligence is something that is now, I think, becoming more valued. Yeah. And so
if so if you are a highly sensitive person, let's talk about this for a minute.
If you're highly sensitive person, what happens when there's some conflict?
Right. What does that look like? Yeah. Well, we say we say highly sensitive person because
that's the phrase that we're using now, but that's that's still subjective. Right. That's still
that's still a label. What's highly sensitive to another to one person, to another is, well,
you're just emotionally intelligent. Right. Yeah. Um but but in in conflict - so let's let's start
with if you are yeah a highly sensitive person, and then we'll go to if you're not but you love
one or you have one in your life. Right. Yeah. If you are a highly sensitive person you probably
default to avoidance when it comes to conflict. Absolutely. You will bend over backwards to avoid
conflict. Right. Like even stuff that isn't even conflict. Right. Yeah. This is a terrible personal
story. I was at a book club on Saturday, and I, like, I'm just joining this book club, like it's
brand new. I'm like trying to make friends. And um they're - I was like the last one to come.
I was late. And they had this lovely layout of food and like salad and there were no forks.
And - Oh, man - everyone else had gotten all the forks. There wasn't a fork. So I had the option
of either like interrupting like these ladies mid-conversation and being like, "Hey, where's
your forks?" or like rifling through her cabinets, just like helping myself, like - both not
great options. Yeah. Or like just eating my salad with my hands. Please please please no.
You didn't. Initially I absolutely was like, "I'll just scoop it up to my pita bread
and like - because I wanted to avoid like interrupting or being rude. Yeah. And
like that's the sort of thing that like the average person would probably be like,
"Hey, Kelly, where's your forks?" Yes. Right? Or even or even, "Excuse me, where are the forks?"
Yeah. Right. But you were like, "I can't do that. It's just - It's so terrible.
Eventually I did. Eventually I did. Like, how eventually? How long
did it take you to get there? After they pulled out the dessert. It
was a natural break, and I could like ask for a fork. Right. That's terrible.
That is an example of - yes. Oh, gosh. How - I'm not judging. I'm deeply amused, but I'm
not judging. But like that's like such a simple example. That is not even conflict. Yeah. That
is like gently disrupting someone. And so for someone who's really highly sensitive, if you
think about like bringing up negative feedback, having to fire someone - Oh my gosh - um needing
to tell someone you really care about like that something they're doing is actually really hurting
you. Breaking up with someone. Breaking up with someone. Or like any type of conversation that
you know that someone else is going to argue back or push back on, your first tendency as
an HSP, I think - maybe it's just me - just to like avoid. Like how can I avoid this by
being polite? How can I avoid this by putting their needs onto myself? How can I avoid this
by eating my salad with my pita bread? Well, I think that's because HSPs value comfort - Yeah
- both theirs and that of other people. Like I like to, that - so HSPs - healers, right? - and
healers and dreamers are both people focused. But a dreamer is going to be uh people focused
externally. They like to be out in public. They like to be on stage. They like to be - whereas
the healer would rather have a small gathering of friends and just take care of them. Yeah. Right.
And so we value the comfort of other people. So the flip side of that is we are strongly opposed
to causing discomfort or inconvenience. Right. Yeah. Uh sorry, go ahead. Well, yeah, and part of
that's because you feel every emotion just really intensely. Like all the highs you can feel really
high and intensely and like love and connection and comfort and gentleness and empathy, but also
like any little bits of conflict or a little bit of disapproval, you'll also feel it like a nine
when it was maybe like a two to the other person. That you're being flooded with arousal. When I say
arousal most people think of sex, but arousal is just any emotion that gets so strong that you stop
thinking clearly. It's nervous system activation. Right. Like fight/flight/freeze response. You
get some adrenaline, some cortisol pumping, your brain shuts down a little bit, and your heart
beats faster. Yeah. And when you're in that space, once again, you freeze or you run or you fight.
Right. And so and so for you, potentially eating the salad with the pita, that's a form of running.
Like I'm not gonna - I'm running from the actual conversation about the fork. I'm just gonna use -
I'm going to avoid any potential disruption that I might overthink about later. Yeah. Oh my gosh.
Yes. Okay. By eating my my salad with my pita. So so the first thing is - and that's that's the hard
part is, when you're when you're a therapist and you do conflict resolution with people, you get
in your own conflicts and you know what to do, but you're so flooded, and your nervous
system is so set off, that you're like, "I know I should just ask for the fork. Yeah.
It's no big deal." I would tell a client of mine, "Just ask for the fork. It's no big deal," and I'm
sitting here freaking out. And so the first thing is to is to is to regulate. That is, to breathe
slow and deep - Right - to to slow down your heart rate, to increase blood flow and oxygen
to your brain. So it helps you to calm down, not feel so triggered, not feel so flooded, and to
think more clearly. Right. And once you do that, the next thing is to say, "Okay, in the
case of I'm an HSP and I'm angry or upset, I need to calm myself down and then ask myself,
"What am I really feeling?" And because all anger, as you well know, um all anger is actually
something else. Anytime you're angry, you're afraid, you're hurt, you're hurt, you're
embarrassed, you're overwhelmed, you're stressed, you're hungry, you're something. Anger is just -
we we step forward with that and power - because it feels powerful. And closers are more likely
to manifest the anger externally. HSPs are more likely to like just say, "I don't feel anger" and
just to hold it inside. And when you talk about how we take other people's problems on ourselves,
and when you talk about all the things we do to avoid, because we still feel the anger it comes
out in the form of passive aggressiveness. Yes. Resentment, passive aggressiveness. Absolutely.
Little jabs that - we have deniability that we didn't mean what they thought we meant, but we
absolutely did, you know? Totally. Yeah. Yeah. Like you can't just - as an HSP you can't just
like avoid all conflict and hope that nothing bad happens in your life. Right. Like you're gonna
just internalize that, and then it'll squirt out another - Yes. Yes, And so you - with some people,
like if someone cuts you off in traffic you're not going to calm down and then go have a heart
to heart with that person. Right. But when it's an actual relationship that you value it's it's
very important to to calm down and say, "Okay, what am I really feeling?" And then you can do
something where HSPs shine, which is you try and take the perspective of the other person. That is
one of the that is one of the superpowers of an HSP relative to the other personality types,
is perspective taking because we have such empathy. Uh it's a mistake to say, "I know what
you're feeling," but you can say, "If it were me I'd be feeling XYZ. Is that what's going on for
you?" And and to and to express vulnerability. And something to recognize is not everybody values
that. Yeah. And so sometimes you're going to get rejected or sometimes people are going to mock you
or sometimes people are going to be unwilling to open up. And that doesn't mean vulnerability and
honesty was the wrong track; it just means, "Okay, with this person they are showing me they're
not safe to be vulnerable with, they're not safe to be real with." It doesn't mean, "I
stop loving them." Or even, in some cases, you stop having a relationship because they're
not safe. In other cases, just like, we're gonna have a surface relationship. Can't go deep with
this person. Yeah, you can keep some people at arm's length. Yeah. Okay. So the other thing
I think that's really important is like, yeah, calm yourself down and empathize with the other
person, but that doesn't mean - empathizing with another person doesn't mean that you have to agree
with them or go along with them. Yeah. So even if you're feeling intensely, like oh, you feel like -
let's say you're a boss and you're trying to fire someone or tell someone they need to, even just
correct their behavior. Like if they push back on you or you're afraid they're pushing back on you
or you're afraid to even have that conversation, that's not actually being kind. That's not
actually being helpful to the situation. Yeah. So you've got to be able to set those boundaries,
even when you can validate and empathize. So let's say you have to fire someone and you know that's
going to hurt for them and you know it's going to hurt for you because you're sensitive, but you
still have to do it. So like being firm and direct is a skill that can be learned. and I think I'm
actually learning that, despite the fork example. Like I think I am actually learning how being
more direct with people is a lot more fair because if you aren't direct with people then you're
just going to walk around carrying resentment, bitterness. They're going to sense that. Your
relationship's gonna suck more. Right. You you can't you can't clear what you have inside until
you're honest. Yeah. And I think the - I love that you use the word "kind" because there's a
difference between kind and nice. And I think nice is an avoidance thing. Yeah. Nice is, "I
don't want to upset the apple cart, ruffle any feathers." Yeah. "I don't want it" - like but
kind is actually caring. I think sometimes nice is caring, but nice is also fear-based. Totally.
Yeah. Got to keep everyone calm. Gotta gotta make sure that I'm controlling other people's behaviors
by me completely bending around to make sure no one else has feelings. Yeah. You also don't give
the people around you enough credit when you do that. I mean, I I'm reading this book, Real Love
by Dr. Greg Baer, and he talks about - because as HSPs we really want to be loved, right,
and we want to give love. The issue is when we don't draw boundaries, when we don't speak up
or stand up for ourselves, when we're not real, we're hoping people love this pretend version of
us, this nice version of us that we're putting out there. Yeah. And he talks about how crucial it is
that in order to be loved we need to be accepted, and in order to be accepted we need to be seen,
and in order to be seen we have to tell the truth. We have to tell the truth about ourselves, what
we're feeling, who we are, and that means risking rejection. But when you embrace the reality
that if you are authentically you and you are authentically honest and there will be people who
reject you and that that says everything about them and what they value and not about your worth,
then you can start living in truth and finding your people. And and that is that's that's what's
helped me as an HSP to overcome my avoidance and my fear. Now, what if you're somebody who's not
an HSP but you're married to one or one you have one as a kid or a co-worker or things like that?
Uh and signs you might see is like if you give them feedback they shut down, they get super hurt,
they don't interact with you anymore, there's like a huge blowup. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I would
say in that case, uh manage your activation. Manage your activation or your your arousal. Uh
same thing: if you feel yourself getting angry, if you feel your heart pounding, if you feel
your fists clenching, like stop and calm down, bring it down, because tone is everything with
an HSP. You can say the exact same thing two different ways. And if your tone is frustrated or
angry they're going to implode with self-loathing. Um and then the other thing I would say is
HSPs tend to - if we want advice on how to fix something, we ask for advice on how to fix
something. What we really want most of the time is just to be heard and to be told that it's okay.
Yeah. Because they're constantly worrying like, "Am I doing a good enough job? What do they think
about me?" And they're constantly - Yeah - as a sensitive person you're constantly scanning
your environment for signs of threat or danger, rejection. Yes. Right. Yeah, for sure. And so I
I tell - there's fixers and validators, right, people who just want validation and people who
want to fix it, and they usually marry each other. And and so you - if I'm a fixer, you come to me
with a problem, I'm like, "Well, let me - here's what you're complaining to me about, so here's the
solution." And then the validator is like, "Well, you don't think I'm smart enough to solve my own
problem? I just want to be heard." And to a fixer, that's, "Ugh." What I tell the fixers, the
non-HSPs is, "It's good that you want to fix. Someone that you love is hurting. You want to make
it better. That's a that comes from a very honest, beautiful place. You're trying to fix the wrong
thing. You think what you need to fix is whatever they're complaining to you about: their awful
co-workers, their mother-in-law, whatever it is. What they're at - what you actually need
to fix is they feel overwhelmed and alone, and if you hear them and tell them, "That's
hard" or "You don't deserve that" or "I'm here for you" or "I think you're wonderful" or
or just hold them, they they they're soothed, and then they can go on and solve their own
problem. Right. Yeah. And so you want to fix it, that's fine; just switch what you're trying to
fix. Like don't fix what they're talking about; fix how they're feeling, just by being there
for them. Yeah. It's healing to know that if I if I develop in the areas where I feel weak, what
it's going to lead to is me feeling more confident and me feeling more comfortable in more
situations with more people. And if I'm seeking comfort ultimately, then I have to step into my
discomfort in the short term. Yeah. I think it's a skill that can be learned. Like absolutely.
Like you can learn to be more assertive, you can learn to be more direct, and you can learn to
tolerate those like really big emotions that come up - Yeah - when you're doing those tasks. Like
you can say, "I'm gonna have this conversation and feel anxious." Yeah. "I'm gonna have this
conversation and feel a little discomfort or fear or anger. And I value like being healthy, I value
this relationship, I value this business deal or whatever it is enough that I'm willing to like
learn the skill to do it." Yeah. Another video, another time: How can HSPs tolerate other
people's discomfort and negative feelings? I've been working on that personally. Because that's
like, "You're mad at me. Oh my gosh." Like that's yeah. It's really uncomfortable. Yeah. Speaking
of which, what are your thoughts on that? Like if you're an HSP how do you tolerate and manage
other people's discomfort? Let us know in the comments below. Yeah. Okay. I want to go back to
one other point. If you are someone married to or in a relationship with or interacting with an HSP,
it's like, as you're working with conflict - and you mentioned this, but it's like HSPs tend to
be - not always, but tend to be like scanning and checking to see if they're doing okay, if they're
performing well enough. And so sometimes if you have feedback for them you might feel nervous.
Or you might not feel nervous, you might just come out really bluntly and be like, "Here's what
you need to change." Yeah. And that - if you see your HSP getting really flooded or shut down or
overwhelmed, you might want to try a different strategy, which is - I think a lot of times HSPs
need a very gentle and very tiny correction, and they'll actually act really directly on
that. So if someone comes to me like, "Emma, you are like failing at everything," I'm like,
"Oh!" Right? Yeah. Yeah. Like, complete meltdown. "Hey Emma, like you leave your clothes on the
floor. Could you please not do that?" I'd be like, "Oh, I will take that feedback, and I will
worry about that feedback, and I will take action on that feedback because I'm already
motivated." I heard, to like fix this, I heard John Gottman talk about it one time, about uh
about expressing a need in a positive way. Yeah. I want you to be the hero of my story, and here's
how you can do it. And you may not use those exact words. But it's like, "If you would remember
to pick up your clothes I would feel so loved and appreciated." Yeah. Like it's important to me.
Right. Yeah. Like because - and so compare that to "You never pick up after yourself, you slob." Yes.
Right. Right. So saying, "If you would remember to pick up your clothes it would help me to feel
loved and appreciated." It's such a great way to talk to an HSP because like well, of course I want
to make you feel loved and appreciated. Yeah. And you're telling me what I can do to be the hero.
Yeah. And to get all that positive energy from you for being the hero I will happily do that. Right.
Right. Whereas if you say, "You never clean up. You suck," it's like I just want to die and I hate
myself. Yeah. It's so intense for an HSP that they will be more likely to flee. Right. They'll be
more likely to withdraw and to be like emotionally closed off. Yeah. And it's not the goal. That's
not the goal that you have. The other thing is like when you're in that conversation with an HSP,
like even though this might feel over the top, if you can do any kind of reassurance with them,
like, "Hey, I love you. I'm staying with you," like if this is your your partner, right, "I love
you. I'm staying with you. We're gonna solve this, but" - or "and I love you. We're gonna solve this,
and like can we work on this together?" Yeah. Or if you see the situation, like the conversation
going so intense that people are flooding, like you can tell they're shutting down, like "Hey, we
can solve this. Let's come back to it when we've calmed down," instead of like, "Let's just keep
pushing through until we figure it out" - Yeah - which is going to lead to emotional shutdown a
lot of times. Yeah. My wife's really good at that. She's like, "It seems like we should probably
take a break." I'm like, "Yes, please." Right. Yes. And then like 10 minutes later she's like,
"I'm calm now. Are you calm?" I'm like, "Yeah, I'm ready to talk." And it's better. So yeah. Wait
wait wait wait. Therapists have like arguments? Yes. Oh, yes. Plenty plenty of arguments. All the
time. Yeah, me too actually. Thank you for having me. This has been awesome. Yeah. It's been great.
Thank you so much for coming. Really appreciate it. And you're going to want to check out - Emma
is joining me on my Mended Light YouTube channel and on our Cinema Therapy YouTube channel, where
she's going to join my wife and I, and then over on Cinemat Therapy where we're going to talk about
Puss in Boots: The Last Wish. So check out both videos. Yep. Make sure to check those out. Okay.
Thank you so much for watching, and take care.
