London Hitman: Kevin Lane

kevin welcome to the show mate thank you for inviting me pleasure to see you good to see you um let's roll all the way back where did you grow up and how did you get convicted of murder bloody hill right so uh i grew up in the countryside in hairfield middlesex it's a small village i was it was reportedly meant to be the largest village in england at one point i don't know how true that is but a lovely village very rural lots of farms lots of pubs um we had a farm on our school which we used to have to attend which was great i said nip down to afternoon school sometimes a knicker chicken gladly are chasing around the yard i tell you to get them smack them over the head i'm chucking my bag i walk out of school and bags bumps and them out like that well the first one i nicked i got home they have like rings around their feet for different colors different ages than that of course i had to bleed an eldest one in there about three years old yeah it tasted like cardboard but still three happy days unplug it cooked it up took it home plucked it you gotta get it and stuff and then it was cooked in a stew and what was school life like for you growing up growing in those sort of uh teenage years i loved school i did bunk off school i thought i bunked off school two or three times but then i went down the lakes and uh messed around there i liked school i liked it because you the sport i wasn't too keen on on educational side of matters until i had to sit down and prove to everybody once that i i could do it i've got a's and b's um and i got expelled so he spelled for what a number of things i'd punch up with a teacher um punched a teacher a couple of times he bit me uh i was caught in a sixth former's hut yeah with a friend of mine and he was manhandling me out and you know proper man handling me um i punched him he bit me i punished him again i got expelled and how old were you at that time uh 14 15. did you grow up did you grow up in a family of or around people that were violent as a young kid do you see a lot of violence or you're around it no i was lucky really i grew up in a loving family um got three brothers one i don't see from childhood but my dad me married and i've got four sisters so i did grow up in violence as a child in that school violence my brother and i've said this before but my brother had an accident and he used to have to wear what's called like a mr magoo crash helmet you'd remember that wouldn't you uh and what would him stop him banging himself in he had all places in his head okay he nearly died he got run over run out from behind the bus okay slipped my mum's and bosh got straight out on the road so he nearly died um and he had to go to school that crash arm on that brings problems yeah so from very early age i was fighting at school for my brother my brother took care of matters himself when he got older yeah by the time the skull has grown over the plates and he's you know he's out of danger but as a young child it was very problematic and then with that my brother went on he like he started drinking at 14 so in the pubs was he younger older than older he was older so he was sick i'll be 12 he was 14 yeah um and there's a lot of travellers in the village rise to come from so take your top off and find the hardest man in here yeah he was doing a bit of that young man you know full of testosterone bit of beer in him yeah like you do and um so that i was fighting at a very young age and i don't like to talk about the violent side but yeah i was fighting as a young man it was a matter of course not because i want to go and have a fight and what was your what was your journey from school then from that sort of 16 year old onwards i was younger than that i was working from 12 years of age full time that was i was working before that i was working in a baker's at five o'clock in the morning uh paper round and it's very dark i mean i've got to tell you you needed a bleeding a bravery award to do a paper around me on there because some of the lanes the trees are grown right over like a tunnel yeah pitch black yeah right you're absolutely crapping yourself really um at 12 years of age because you're it's still pitch black in the morning wind and rain and snow whatever in the countryside i started work and then i just went along that course um did very very well working and i went out and got an apprenticeship when i was si i started work when i was 15 when i got expelled from school and they sent me to a school called southbourne originally they wanted to send me to a school called the phoenix which was a special school where was that in the country that was actually in west straight and i'm not about to bike there they said to wear myself down and stuff like that and i just didn't go so they sent me to another school called southbourne which is in uh waistline manor and i used to have to sit in a class in a store room on my own and i had two classes that i was allowed to mix with and i think it was french and english i believe so that was half hour sessions i was put back in a bleeding storm well the devil finds work for idle hands doesn't he so for instance it was bonfire night so i bought a load of bangers one little one down the corridor four more in the classrooms went back to the bleeding store room of course it was me they knew it was me that didn't go down well yeah they didn't go down well that i rode in a school on a motorbike parked it in the bleeding car park so i see myself as well i believe an adult at the time yeah i've got my own flat i'm sure well i'm sharing with a friend of mine i was working with a local builder getting four days work release and i was working in a chip shop in the in the evening and weekends so i and i loved it you don't feel like you're working yeah if you like what you're doing didn't you so career-wise i then went off and got an apprenticeship carpentry and i did that for three years in various different companies and then i stopped all of that started by understanding cars um and what sort of age were you buying selling cars either 18 roughly 18 okay and what's your life like outside of work at that time um well i i i had just had a baby i was with i met a girl when i went to southbourne um i fancied her mate actually standard but i was told she fancies me she was prettier yeah so i went over but that was a better deal because i ended up having two children and she's still she's an absolute lady uh kim purcell real class act kim so still friends with her i see her yeah of course we speak if we need to she lives in another area now um we had a first son aaron and then tommy had we got a flat i bought a flat as well at that time i got a mortgage and bought a gaff so we had a council place and i went and bought one but i bought it to sell it and i did i sold it on took some money out of it yeah uh so i was already going off on that on that path of life and what was that what was that journey between then and the day you got convicted it's a bit of a rollercoaster ride really because i started working licensed premises uh that i didn't what night clubs i was 18 i looked like a bleeding manager yeah so i could come up to you i wasn't the size i am now i was 11 stone seven and i was boxing yeah so i'd approach you and talk to you yeah and you're not you don't feel threatened dodge do you when someone's small comes up to you more for them for don't you know of course don't know anybody absolutely i could talk to you and you would have to put your hands up and if it got to that i said look i'll talk to you by the door yeah get your door when you're gone but i started working supremacy's licensed premises um as well as buying sending the cars and wherever else that journey takes you yeah um and it does take you on quite a journey doesn't it you know up in london so you're running the doors of these guests 120 doormen you have 120 dawn on your books at the time when if you needed a doorman then you needed a doorman because it kicked off there yeah not like now where there's dormant right across the spectrum yeah if you've got a clean license you can have a pass yeah they were proper bouncers back then yeah a fight yeah or be able to talk to people yeah um but i have to say to my lads listen you're here to manage our guests yeah you're not here to bleed and beat him up yeah because if you beat him up you might think oh listen he deserved it but you're not here you were to restrain people at emma mel so if you lose me a gaff and that gas gives me 250 pound a week probably back then it wasn't a bad [ __ ] enough for a puff but i had 16 pubs and six clubs on the go yeah full time yeah uh was it that many 16 i'll have to look at there's about so 12 pa 12 pubs and and six clubs sorry then you get your little bits here and there didn't you so if i'm getting two and a half a week out of there that's a grand a month that's 12 grand a year yeah so i'd say to you if you lose me that place you just took 12 000 pounds a year out of my pocket pocket yeah i'm not gonna be very happy yeah as you wouldn't be yeah so be mindful of that lads but it took me off into an area where it's problematic but i purchased the the name of the company to go into camera security so it was a stepping stone what year were we talking about 91 91 okay early 90s okay this story yeah okay so bounce is only coming on the scene then so i grew up living above pubs my old man was the first one to bring bounces on the door big lumps because you had to but there was no badges back then it was literally you're a big lump come stand on the door with a bomber jacket or even even back then you put a suit jacket on something yeah yeah the zip-up jacket yeah flight jacket that's right all my lads had them all had matching uniforms yeah i tried to take it a little bit more professional at the time walkie-talkies had to sign a contract but not all of them did but no severe records but yeah um the funny thing is back then you you can have a criminal record you can still stand on the door yeah that's all changed oh choice yeah i've never had i did have nickens on the door but um that was me before i started my own company um because people used to think they could take a piss out of me yeah and did you find that you were a target at all well you looked young yeah and you're not a big size yeah so people would be a bit gobby to you in the end when they're drunk or might try on yeah so there was a portion of that but once you get a regular door people know you are now you are you meet the customers get a bit of a base don't you yeah yeah and what was your route then from then from then on was running the doors did you get into trouble at all well you do get into trouble don't you because it is problematic um a few nickins violence um it's yeah it was problematic for me i started ringing cars um that was very lucrative like i'd buy a car for four thousand pound and sell it for 14. it only be missing its interior at the time you can bonnet and a few doors and that and you could go and get them from scrapyard yeah or you'd nick them yeah i wouldn't do it now of course yeah but when you're 18 yeah and it was quite large at the time what else did you get nick for in that period of working the doors handling stolen goods okay so i had a yard and i split the yard up and took some rents from the yard just give me 500 pound a week in my pocket after expenses but i had the air an aircraft hanger or what's called like a nissan hut which is a mini aircraft hangar you can get a juggernaut in there so we'd have a lolly load of whiskey or um bits and pieces i'd computers never forgot it i'd um i could have mentioned the name of the computers i had but uh that was very good a whole bleeding lawyer load is good to drop down to me of these computers and i was selling a basic computer then for 750 quid wow in the 90s 91 wow but it was a big computer-wise system yeah i remember those that was very very lucrative for me um i have said this so i'm going to say to you now the best seller i had was women's town packages was it cleared them in a week the whole pleading bad ban loads of them gone up the school mate all that bag out of a bag yeah yeah yeah yeah gone yeah and washing powder yeah okay so anything you can get your hands on to turn a pound no you're on it yeah yeah well there's there's always something you might not be you'd say no more interesting there's too much hard work yeah uh but pretty much if it if it's cheaper did you ever get involved in drugs i don't like drugs no uh i ain't saying i haven't taken drugs and i've tried an ecstasy here and there yeah back in the day when there was a lot cleaning on what they are now yeah um i don't like cocaine i call it a c-u-n-t drug you talk like one you act like one you fortune you're in the toilet all night pretending you're a gangster and you're a dust win in the week yeah but you become good aggressive a lot of the time yeah i i don't agree with it i've had uh family problems that i've had to put into rehab and such and i think it destroys life yeah look at society now if it was a recreational drug like ecstasy back in the day that didn't destroy lives as cocaine does so that gave me a bad feeling um dealing drugs i'm not really a drug dealer in terms of i like to go to work because i'm not really a drug dealer when i was 18 19 and people were talking about the rhubarb and custards and dennis and menaces and that yeah and you got your pals oh listen i know someone wants hundreds of them yeah so you're passing them on into getting a drink out of it yeah but it's a bit it's different it's difficult you are dealing in drugs yeah but you're a middle man yeah and it wasn't to the proportion of proper what i could have done yeah and uh it just never appealed to me so what happened between the period of 91 and 96 um so i went to spain yeah i got nicked for kidnapping first of all and i kidnapped the wrong fella but i say that now he he was we were giving him as a uh as the person that was meant to have committed the crime what crimes are so i worked for a company called scots and fetzer and i thought there was money that i'd go and work yeah so i had the security company that was bringing between eight and twelve hundred quid a week into my pocket i had a head dormant i was paying him a quarter of the profits so i passed that over i then in one i had a uh a venue where a lad that used to work for me called paul blessing he could never get enough work on the door he stopped working he pulled in driving a 944 porsche i was working that night on the door and i thought yeah he's jumped up a bit so we're doing some sort of maneuvers i said i could sell them kevin it ain't like that mate i said get me an interview i went for an interview sending these kirby hoovers i sold 26 in a weekend and i delivered 16 due to finance and such i broke the world record i went 4 700 pound that weekend i thought this is a bit of me yeah so i went off set in the kirby's which took me into other areas but i ended up earning fifteen thousand pound a month basic wage and i got an unsecured overdraft on my wages each month happy days happy days so selling hoovers i went on to irish life doing mortgages what did you why did you kidnap that bloke right you've got me i lost my truck there thank you so a friend of mine was a factory distributor and he had a hundred machines stolen from his factory this individual was put forward as the man that was part of he was installment slipping the machines out but it wasn't him was the other fella but he was put forward for it and they threatened her a girl who had notified my pal about the thefts she was threatened with a knife and so was a young baby um they went to the police the police couldn't do nothing about it because this was a bit of a football hooligan gang down there my friend called me up and said can you sort it so i did i went down there and i took this feather away in the back of the boot oh he went straight in the motor yeah i took him out of a car put him straight in mine um took him away and i've you know i'm not proud of what i did i ran him over a couple of times severely beat him because i'm just looking at him thinking put a knife to a baby yeah yeah you can have another dig yeah and whatever reasons you know and he spent a week in hospital didn't know his own name because obviously the beating he had taken i got arrested for that for kidnapping so um i went to prison for that for two years but did you get convicted for two years was it i too what did you do and you did what okay i got bail on the first trial because the police were caught out lying in the dock they said that they'd contacted a witness where i kidnapped the fella from there were staff they did an id parade and they said it looks like him but it's not him yeah the detective inspector but it looks like him yet it's him she said i never said that and then she come forward and said also i was asked to meet the police officers at the end of my road they phoned me up i got in the back of the car there's kevin lane's fire she kept saying kevin kevin yeah my brothers said why did you keep referring to mr mendes kevin yeah she said i've seen his file yeah wow and then she said i wrote a new statement now of course i got immediate bail yeah i was on bailly for about 14 months i did six months remand first time i've ever been in prison whereabouts with what about your prison reading okay um how old were you when you first went to prison 21. what was that feeling like whether you're in the dock and they weren't right you got to put inside well at the time i was in an old victoria in prison i became jim wardly in there but that feeling that feeling of 21 getting convicted did your heart sink thinking um what's going on with my world right now or were you okay with it i was okay but it was a case of going into the prison it was a small prison and it seemed exciting that there was no act like there was no there was a lot of fights and things like that but nothing like this today yeah and i only got a relatively short period of time i've got two years and the second trial the jury came back uh with a guilty verdict but then came back again within 20 minutes and said they made the wrong decision um the judge said i'd have to take your first answer and he said i know there's going to be an immediate appeal and a bad application well i told my boss not to make a bad application i've not given evidence i've not lied in the doc i've been found guilty i'm happy with ascendance yeah and i've got two years two years two and two years to run concurrently and i thought i'd be out in no time at all [Music] i went off to burlington then which was a brand new prison um and then i went to springer after that because my father passed away whilst i was in burlington where's bollinger in the country oh it's bista oxford yeah okay um so that was the hardest part for me my father passed away and not getting to speak to him was he a big influence in your life you're dead you might hear up you know your daddy's really yeah of course but i didn't see my father much from when i was a child my mom dad split up my dad went off his way um difficulties with access and maintenance and stuff how old were you when they split four four okay yeah four or five copies about that age um have you ever dealt with that that trauma back then i had some when i came home from the lengthy sentence i went and saw some therapy from as a psych therapist in belvedere i actually had two sessions a week and i was with him for quite some time i've nearly seen him for a year and a bit and he said i would never known if you'd been in prison if you hadn't told me yeah but i did deal with it and the fact is that he made me sit in a chair opposite me where my dad was meant to be sitting he said talk to your dad as if he's there yeah now you sit and then talk to you as if you're your dad it brought out a lot of emotion i bet i bet it was strange because i was how old were you at that time when you did that i was 47 47 wow so you might have been carrying 44 years of hurt without realizing the time dodge i had because also during that period of time i hadn't seen my children for nine years due to the categorization i was held at and you've got a lot going on around you in the prison system when you move into the high security estate and the special secure unity where i was held and you're a young man in in an old school system where people have morals and code of conduct not like it is now yeah so it's like you've arrived in a country you've never been to before so it's pretty new for a while not exciting but it's electric fine there's a lot going on with me is the atmosphere can be electrified at times or it can be very tense um [Music] it was difficult i must say so just rolling back there i want to know what happened on how you got your big sentence what actually happened you got accused of murder so during the my my path with work i went into sales with the kerbers then i did irish life mortgages and from that i thought i had a relative go to turner reef doing and he's talking about the time shares yeah so i went to tenerife whilst i was out there um i had some trouble out there um i came back to england as a result and i was arrested two months after i came back for murder of bob mcgill what year was this 1995 i was arrested the murder was in october 94. i got arrested on january the 10th i uh hexa magistrates court so i'd been up there and again i looked younger there and then i'd had a couple of five a couple of rugby players and i got arrested for it and charged um i went back up to a pier and they was waiting for me arrested me brought me back down to london at high speed flashing lights on police and that straight into watford police station and i thought you know like what's all this about um but i knew something was wrong by the line of questioning this doesn't seem like the question is if i [ __ ] did it and they would so the question said was just totally out of the blue that they were like we need to nick you take you down to london did you know did you know anything was coming did you know nothing about what was going on did you know there was a murder at that time i knew there'd been a murder it was big in the area yeah but i didn't expect to get arrested and charged with murder yeah i expected to get pulled in because i've been led to believe that i had a car in my possession that was used in the murder it's so you what you owned the car no no so i came back from spain yeah i purchased a ford cosworth yeah sapphire yeah the day i purchased it was stolen from my drive right i was then offered to be a loan of a car the car was off to below was reportedly used in the murder it seems transpired that the actual car wasn't but it was duplicated slightly different color different color interior different wheels but it was a different character scene to what i was loaded yeah but that didn't come out until some years after i was convicted because the reports of that car would have held from the evidence so my evidence was chopped and changed to get me guilty factual that as it's in my book fit it up and fight him back so i came back from spain got arrested at western i was bailed at the time i was in watford police station there was a corrupt police officer in my case called spackman smackman was roger vincent and david smith's handler and we've had police officers who's roger vincent and david smith so personal but i'll show you them so roger vincent and david smith were working with this police officer called spacman and they're giving evidence in a number of cases over the years whereas uh their charges were dropped well smith wasn't but vincent's was other people got guilty they were the original suspects they were the original suspects of the murder of mcgill yep okay and why was mcgill murdered nobody knows was he a was he a criminal was he was he did do people money he was a face he was a face okay enforcer okay and where did he get murdered and how he got murdered in rickmansworth but he was he's dead now so let's not talk bad about him but he was a force to be reckoned with uh in the area and with that comes problems and he got ironed out and we don't know why yet but what did you ask me how did he die he died he got died with he got killed with a pump action shotgun uh so the police say a mossberg pump action shotgun uh shot at close range and executed in rickman's worth what at home in his car walking down the country lane really so roger vincent was arrested for david smith they put me forward in a number of confidential chats where roger vincent did and he said i want to work with the police discuss a number of murders that have been committed he said i committed those murders unsolved murders as a result of that the police operation completely focused in my direction um when i got arrested on the 10th spackman shut up to see vincent in woodhill prison the speckman's the copper that was a cop yeah he went to prison for four years for theft what the copper did detective inspector um always been corrupt yeah everyone knows that yeah but i mean he was going around roger vincent's house on his own and going in and going up to see him in prison as a as a solicitor not going as an old billionaire but they were working together to get more the evidence on me so this that is roger vincent if anybody can see that he looks very happy doesn't he he's just that he's just been charged with murder doesn't look very sad does he no he doesn't because after being charged with murder he engaged with the police in a number of confidential chats where he says i want to work with the police and this is what he says he says following the charge of roger allen vincent we've been concerned in the murder of robert mcgill i spoke confidentially with mr vincent at his request i've got his sign custody record where he signs it in five places and his custody sergeants coming off and on duty where they've signed it and he says i want to talk to the police without my solicitor being informed or present and he's taken off the interview room on a number of occasions mr vincent he reaffirmed that he had not been present when mcgill was shot and was shocked that he had been charged with the offence he wanted to do a deal whereby the charge would be dropped in return he said he would supply through his solicitor a statement accounting for his prince being in the car and he was supplying a confidential basis details of the two persons responsible for the murder the person who put them up to it including how much was paid he stated it had in fact been paid to kill mcgill and they are responsible for another one whereby he's been blanked out that had been killed from the limited details he gave it was clear that he referred to the murder being investigated in surrey he said that the killers had been paid that's been blanked out again the intimate he intimately intimidated that's some poxy teeth that turkey teeth they're still certain [Laughter] i did a channel five documentary you know it's only just had them done oh my god it looked like a bleeding squirrel but he says let's get back to this um he said from the limiting details he gave he was clearly referred to the murder been investigating in surrey and if killers had been paid he intimidated that the purcell family including such had had an involvement he's just making up all these names to bring attention to make the case give some more meat on the bones because these people are known by saying their names the police are going all really uh he stated that a former police investigation would net everyone involved with the exception of someone who referred to not mentioning his name is dead now he did not get his hands dirty and it just goes on there's more of that type of stuff so what was that what was the headline then the headline was hitman were you we were they saying that you were a hit man yeah vincent said i could they would if i'd have got acquitted for the murder of robert mcgill there was three police forces waiting to dock arrest me based on what roger vincent had told them and he told them what that i'd committed thr uh a number of murders i was responsible for them so more murders than mcgill another other other ones yeah there's a murder they said i commit for a prime minister of another country in this country that and as a result uh they suspended links of england over this and i've got the documentation what country is that uh it was uh kiev um chechen the foies yeah so yeah so there was that that was quite difficult because i'm thinking that's danger well i'm thinking hold on a minute yeah based on one person say so yeah but they clean the books up and as a result they said he's going to prison and that's what i did they sent me to prison with no evidence circumstantial evidence that was conjured up fabricated cleverly chosen words and theatrical performances and the evidence that they convicted me on they built around me once they arrested me i wasn't arrested due to the evidence that they already had in their possession so where were you that day of the killing i took my kids to school yeah i was in bedfordshire she was miles away miles away wow and then spacman the copper he went mountain of my house and threatened mom the mother of my children he said we're going to nick you now bear in mind we've had two lots of armed oh please go through the front door to your wife's house with the kids okay oh my god once when they nick meeting the second time they went back again she was a nervous wreck turning up at a school she was a working as a playground attendant um turning up phoning her up well you know the rest didn't yeah so um didn't go down very well where at the time i thought this isn't right there's something not right about this and then of course years later i found out so much information now that's made the book and my conviction unsafe so the two people who got come got accused of murder did they go to prison they're now serving a sentence for another murder of david king who got killed in hertfordshire of an ak-47 by that time spackman had been nicked and said to prison for stealing 160 000 pound um so spacman's the copper who christopher sparkman okay and he was he was in control of uh disclosure so he was in control of disclosure um exhibits and we were receiving information from the police saying contact the officer in the case spacman contact the officer in the case for disclosure spaceman yet when i went up for a pill they said his part in my case was minuscule he wouldn't have affected the trial but now we've obtained the evidence quite clearly shows he was in at the helm of everything and controlling the evidence that i didn't get and manipulating the evidence that he put before the jury to get me convicted whilst his little informer roger vincent walked off and vincent was acquitted at halfway submissions by the judge which we had no idea was going to happen the case was stopped and the judge acquitted him by the judge's direction yet vincent i'm saying if you have said you want to work with the police and give information on the murder and you're charged with murder then surely the jury should have been told about that that you're given information about how it was committed and who was paid and then you decide if you think he's guilty he was in a pub bragging he killed mcgill with smith he was in a pub showing off a gun where a gentleman was caught with a car that was loaned to me he was paid to burn it and he said he got off of roger vincent and david smith his statement was depressed and i got it 12 years later wow yeah because they couldn't go forward with that with the with the conviction against the trial if they disclose that statement to me because i said well older than you've got someone you're saying it's them yeah and there's other other statements why were they up for blaming you i was known in the area um easy to fit up i ducked and dived you know about doors security firm i've still to this day want to know why why and now it's come out he has been working with the police and i've got a statement from his psychiatrist saying that vincent told him he said the police arrested him and vincent said i don't know anything about the murder but i'll say whatever you want and that's when his psych is psychologist and i've got plenty of other stuff like that that i'm going to be doing a live powerpoint podcast soon with a barrister called dominic de souza who's a leading qc in the country and we're going to discuss the legalities of the conviction against me the investigation against me where police officers were refused to be interviewed about my murder when they was reinvestigating it and that that was by their own colleagues of hartford police force now if hertfordshire police force are paying for a review of that murder and you conducted that review you can't tell your bosses you're not going to take part in that investigation where's the hierarchy in that yeah and then and the investigating officers of hartfordshire police force were denied access to all the papers in the case so how can that be a thorough investigation it's not transparent is it and that's because they're hiding stuff yeah how long did you get put down for i served 20 years in one go uh they asked for 30 in court stood up and asked for 30 years so you were getting put put in prison for 30 years for something you didn't do yeah in the court bay oh the old bailey caught two high security call my god all the flashing lights the armed guards helicopters snipers on the roof of the call i'm not billed behind the judge 24-hour arm guard on all jury members complete 24-hour guard you don't stand a chance i had a hung jury the first trial and uh ten to two majority on the second but spacman for instance stopped my solicitor during the second trial down the first trial should say going down the corridor he told him the split of the jury dodge now what goes on in that jewelry room is meant to be sacrosanct that's 12 there's 12 in the jury right yeah yeah okay and he told him to split eight to four we don't know if that's four against yeah but how did he find out that yeah where's spacman today i don't know i think he's down south down this way somewhere because he's had some interviews in the hilton hotel in southampton i got released as a result of some paperwork was sent to my solicitor from an anonymous source and it was a springboard for getting me out of prison and i went through the prison system at a great pace of knots when they refusing to take me off the book all of a sudden i've got the prison director waiting outside my cell to ask me if this paperwork's correct i said it wasn't and that's danny mcallister by the way big scotsman a man's man and i got a lot of time for him yeah i've seen him ever go out of staff how long ella when you got put away for 20. what was that feeling like when you're sitting the dog going i've not killed this man and i'm getting put away for 30 years to do 20. well no if they if they're that if they'd have given me 30 years i'd have to serve 30 plus yeah so well not in all cases vincent got 30. he had five taken off of a pill he's now in five wells i've got to say this by the way he's in a brand new prison called five wells which they don't take life as if it's a state-of-the-art prison he was moved from oak uh oak oak up i think your name is i've been peter barr he was moved from there for his own safety because of the being the wrong one and now he's in a state-of-the-art prison with the governor of that previous prison when he's not meant to be in there all right so when i got sentenced to my bleeding sentence i'd i wouldn't be in them in that condition in that uh situation now where he is i was still in qatar grey's system so just explain the litters what a cat a is compared to just being in a normal prison but the cat a system was brought in for the ira originally people not a lot of people know that or serious gun crimes or drugs because many years ago not everybody had guns yeah and you certainly won't give them to young kids yeah and you'll be frowned upon if you add yeah um she's looking on the landings you'd have i-o-a-r-a-r-a murder drugs yeah but no bleeding christ this there's that many uh cat eyes now yeah they've become the norm yeah um very difficult to live in what okay yeah because depending on what give an example of your day as a cat a prisoner well i was triple category a when i was first when i got a place it goes up again it goes cat a double a triple triple o yeah is that right not a lot of people know about exceptional risk but it's fact absolutely fact i was and i've had people commenting on websites and stuff about me being exceptional as he said there's no such thing well channel 5 said there is such thing on bell marsh maximum security prison last wednesday and they asked me about it so yes there is exceptional risk and i was the only man in the country there's exceptional risk and let me tell you about being exceptional risk i was in the special secure unit in white mall where the ioa escaped out of there uh i think it was october actually um 1994. so it had a massive security uh lift and on the outside of my cell door it's a typical day for me you have two dead bolts and a padlock you take the padlock off the dead bolts off and then you have to go to an intercom and ask for that door to be open where are you going you're in a prison within a prison yeah and then it's caged i don't know what they've and you're checked every 20 minutes so i never realized that i was forever doing this like i had a tick yeah when i came off the category 16 days later due to this paperwork coming to light i realized i was doing that and it was nobody at the door yeah because you're checked all the time that's triple a yeah when you get double a the checks are reduced and you get singular you check twice night and morning when you get when you're moved around are you chained up you're double cuffed with the big padlocks and i mean massive padlocks okay and then you're cuffed here cuffed there they can put a chain on you and if you really want to in a budgie suit yellow and green again the categorization means you've got to have armed police to move you you can only be moved from the uh the secretary of state it was michael howard and people like that at the time that upgraded me and they not upgraded me but agreed to impose a new set of uh guidelines into my handling so they agreed to bug my legal visits and said that in the interests of security national security the queen and the third pie they would listen to your conversations with your solicitor but they wouldn't use them to affect your trial um yeah yeah so you've got to go all through that your jury's selected the information that is used to convict you is also uh it's under scrutiny public community interest roger vincent's confidential chats were disclosed at court to him at an ex-parte hearing where i weren't that cool did they ever try to say to you speak up i'm gonna give you a lesser sentence right i'm gonna tell you something so i spent a lot of time in the block what's the block segregation but it you gotta understand this so isolation um it isn't like mainstream segregation where people are shouting out the windows yeah you're isolated from that because you're in your own prison not in you're inside of a prison walls yeah so you've got your own block i spent a lot of time in that block on my own and just four walls four walls nobody else so it is like uh cool and luke still shaking that tree boss when they sling you in the slammer you are on your own you ain't got no one to talk to so you become accustomed to your own uh personality um and how many hours a day you in there 23 hours i used to paint painting by numbers i thought i was brilliant [Laughter] so 23 hours stuck in herself nothing to talk to no one nothing nothing to do i had pigeons pigeon juice to come down the window i fed him wood pigeons mad you end up feeding you got pets didn't you did you did you ever think you might lose the plot in there um i don't think i'll lose the plot i thought that i was very determined that i won't let let them beat me so if i'm not going to get away with this and that was the approach but the obstacles you face are far-reaching gone prison was run on violence then it's so much now but cons are a lot more violent young kids with nothing to lose for years but very difficult to [Music] you're isolated from your family i couldn't touch no one i was on permanent close visits um you had to be specially cleared by the police to come and see me all your numbers have to be cleared um the number your phone calls always listen to staff sitting there the tape recording you at the time you said push a button say right make your call to check the number let you make the call table called you might don't know it's why you're making that call you're gonna be talking to someone who's died i've met family member who's my family member if someone's died my son so it's sometimes so my son tommy he says to me dad can i ask you something out of the blue now i've got a prison officer sitting where you're seeing i said of course you can't say and what is it he says when you look at sexy girl she's or will he stand up because mine does and so does aaron's grasp his brother up [Laughter] [Applause] were your kids how old were your kids when you got put away five and seven five and seven how heartbreaking was that for you i didn't get to see them after that one i've got put in a unit it's too traumatic for him that was it nine years didn't see him you didn't see him for nine years of course i didn't have a dad when i was a kid and my dad was whatever happened and then i felt that yeah very badly because i've always wanted to be there for my kids i'd be the only dad at the training ground if it was pouring down the rain or snow i'd be standing there yeah i played five of christmas at the school i want to be part of my children's lives and then it's taken away from me very difficult because you want to be there to install uh good building blocks for your kids to go out into the into society well balanced young men yeah of course i was taken away what was the feeling like being inside knowing you hadn't done it were you angry were you screaming and shouting at the screws to tell them it's not me i've been convicted for the wrong thing what did you do in those 20 years to really throw your weight around in there i didn't throw them away around what i did do i did hit some staff and i did it a lot of cons but i seemed to fall out with the [ __ ] yeah so i had quite a few prison officers threatening me i just whatever happened there i ended up asleep on the floor literally or would you not careful well i've got twenty i've got nothing to lose was that in your in your mind no just don't threaten me yeah don't [ __ ] threaten me because i won't tolerate you can wrap me up you can bend me up you can zip tie me on zip tie my legs carry me to a strip cell take all my clothes off me leave me in a strip cell till you see i'm fit to come out and believe me long periods naked in a concrete cell with no bed nothing all right just imagine a concrete room grey concrete that's it there's the slinging me in there naked you get sores on your bleeding size you can't lay down the floor's cold when the sun goes down you start shivering at night and they use it to break you but i i just decided you ain't never going to break me and i'm going to keep doing what i'm doing you threaten me i'm going to mature that was my approach and then what that did was that the staff was saying listen he ain't a bad lad yeah he's respectful he don't like bullies yeah he don't bother us he gets pissed but he dances and sings and puts his music up but we like his music yeah played a bit of a [Laughter] bit of soul i went around the boom boom stuff yeah so i've gotten well from the staff in terms of i just i just did my bird but i fought my case extremely hard so my cell became the war office and i had these had a whole if they moved and they needed a real long carry van to put all my paperwork in it they couldn't move in a small one or he has to send it down with another van but i wouldn't move it so i'm moving to the my paperwork comes with me we'll go and get kitted up and we'll be fighting yeah but i've had so many turn ups with the mufti by now what's the musty the mufti is a description of clothing where it's um it's got another meaning i can't remember now but it's the right squad crash helmet shields well they're coming in with in the right squad to pin you down tie you up yeah yeah bend you over wrap you up don't [Laughter] were they partial to smashing you to bits if they fancied it so jason de la hoya he was a screw taffy right last fella and i was in the unit and he says he left the job as a postman right you know works for children but he said i had to come in to wrap me up right and he said there was a protest going on so matthew williams got seven life sentences for uh threatening to impregnate manchester city councils water reserves he was holding him to ransom um he got seven live sentences the scrooge went in and wrapped him up he hadn't done a thing wrong not a bit of violence in him natural violence um next thing you know my flaps uh come i pissed i pushed the bell actually uh screws come and he said what is it kevin i said you know when two boxers are in the ring and the bell goes you and yeah so the bell's just gone off walk the back of my cell and wait for the door to come they come crashing in on me we had a big tear up uh after that happened i'm talking to the uh strip cell or the box they call it now and he said kevin he said we were told to get you out of the way because if we get you out of the way he said everybody else will fall right yeah and he said honestly kevin i sat down there did you look did you become immune to this knowing they're going to come in they can do this you strip you down wrap you up throw you in there yeah just come like oh here we go again it might be a little bit difficult for listeners and viewers to understand this but look at what's going on in uh russia and that at the moment okay you don't become you're not immune to it but you get accustomed to what's going on around you look at some of these places in the world where they've been bombed constantly it becomes the norm okay uh and you do yeah i did become accustomed to it it's just one thing for you if you're in a box and you're in category triple a and you were seen as one of the most dangerous people in the country how can you get your voice out to get this overturned you start writing letters and my first letter i wrote i wrote to david jessel so the ira boys told me that there was a wrong one in the in the unit and um they gave me his name he's now dead so i want to give his name but he weren't a favorable character at all um i landed in the unit in white mall um the lads were saying kevin shouting out the window just wait till did we get around to see you kevin don't do anything stupid because i was volatile yeah you know what you were saying screaming and shouting from the rooftop so someone who's innocent will scream and shout more than anybody else uh because they're just going nuts that was me yeah so i chatted my aggression at the [ __ ] on the landings i was living with yeah i'm on about cons yeah okay i think you [ __ ] yeah what you in for yeah don't you say no more yeah but that sort of day where they wouldn't be on the bleeding landings rapists and yeah pedophiles and [ __ ] like that right and if they had to smell it about them they got whacked yeah but i just shut up from the rooftops fighting my case um very difficult so i've gone to the unit this fella's in there the door's opened it's a jordy and he's walking along doing this yeah all right i thought there's only one jordan that's the wrong one yeah all right next you know to sleep on the floor absolutely unconscious had to carry him off he didn't wake up for five minutes that's been the best punch of my life if i lent over him and i said no one can say i've ever told him anything yeah [Laughter] like you've got a glass in here i ain't talking to him all right so i went i then got put in the strip cell and i picked a pen up and i wrote to david jessel so for those if you watch panorama last chance for justice you will see david justin on there he was the ceo of uh trial and error back in the day do you remember that dodge no i don't it's like rough justice and i wrote a letter to him and that was the first how did you know he got it i used to send all my letters recorded delivery and he replied okay i said every single letter recorded delivery whether it's a parcel or a package or a folder every single one so i started writing letters and seven years later sally chidzoy former bbc producer came forward after written some interviewing some police officers one serving one not serving and said kevin anderson spacman not to write a statement without naming lane for the murder and smith signed it and was put in front of the judge under public immunity interest sensitive material she said he's innocent and spacman told them he had to think cleverly about how he worded the statement so that's not me saying it this is bbc journalists being told by police officers and she did the first bbc broadcast on me when i was in white moore prison it was seven years later and from that it just grew but i used to work off the basis if i sell send a hundred letters yeah i'll get one okay and i would just keep doing that and doing that and doing that until it got me where it did how did you get your head around when someone said what did they actually sentence you for how long was actually this energy for so the judge sentenced to me he said uh i sent an issue to life imprisonment i didn't know the system and i said well how long have i got to do like a dope if he'd have i shouldn't have asked that yeah because then you get what's called a recommended sentence and the recommended sentence means you will serve if you said 30 years you would send a minimum of that and then we will look at you yeah all right he said take him down take him down took me down three years later i'm going to get down the surface he'd get a bit of grub or be cooked around food but it was new year's eve and there was this uh senior officer and he weren't a liked character lane he goes i got saying for you oh yeah what do you want you ain't got nothing nice for me and he gave me my sentence it was a tariff from the three years later wow they said 18 years i went [ __ ] now that's a result because i thought i was going to do 30 years i just took a few years how did you get your head round even then getting that piece of paper's going i actually know now i've got to do a minimum 18 years how did you get your head around that so pat purcell said to me kevin don't get bitter because it will change your personality and i like a laugh i like a bit of fun and i don't you know although i've had lots of physical violence in my life it's it's extracted from me i don't like it don't trigger my toes because i stamp on yours yeah but leave me alone so because i'm nice natured and polite people didn't think you're an idiot didn't you so pat said to me don't change your your personality kevin this is your life he said you're now in prison he said and make the best of it and i thought you know what you're absolutely right and i made my life in prison the best i could for me whilst i was in here for because this ain't no dress rehearsal yeah so i need to have a laugh carry on having a laugh have a drink purchase a few new dance moves two left feet cutting some of your festivals soon [Laughter] so what is it so actually inside the prison how easy is it get anything you want in there is there a lot of drugs in there there's a lot of outcome there can you get mobile phones who brings this in the phones weren't around in prison when i first went away drugs were heroin massive amounts of health is that right it was frowned upon but there was lots of it and then you're getting faces that were getting on the gear yeah because i just didn't say it would do anything i can get off of it they're strong characters and all nobody's falls uh not all of them of course but then it just it grew and then the spice came in crack what's the spice it's uh it's a tranquilizer like a uh i've been told it's the tranquilizers that are used to transport fish don't know how true that is but it's a herb and uh absolutely they don't know where they are what they're doing and they think they have a heart attack yeah okay and you started seeing people coming into the prison bringing and selling it because it didn't show up on on the uh on the drug test yeah yeah we started taking that wow and was it and did you ever make an effort to get on with the cons or did you see them as the enemy no i've got that click on their screws so uh a prison officer i know called wayne deadman died a few days ago still to go and see him george shipton phil prell i can go on gary fox there's a staff in the job that used to argue of other staff yeah all right and they used to be called certain names about oh you're muddy cuddling the staff he said no i don't like what you're doing yeah okay they're in it they're not in it to be punished any more than what they're in here for and you're bullying them and all this stuff i think [ __ ] hell like that's a decent man standing there a decent woman and people need to understand something if it weren't for the good in the job could you imagine how bad those places would be yeah for those people who have had a visit or about to get a phone call jacked up to speak to someone who's died in the family or a loved member of the family they've got to keep that in mind so i'm grateful for the goodness job and i've got on with staff and i still get on the staff now i've become friends and there'll be cons out there now to say what friends of a screw yes i am friends with ex crews and they left the job for for certain reasons but they're decent people and they could have been now the same as us just a left turn or right turn what would you do to the prison system today i would bring in segregation for islam because islam has got a massive has had a massive effect on the prison population you've got people going into the system signing up to islam for the protection of islam for people that are using their religion in the wrong manner listen my girlfriends are for reigning and half indian yeah i'm not bleeding racist but i don't like people signing up for it to bully people or to use it to promote their cause because most of the terrorists that came into the prison system were all about converting people so there was a fella from brighton and he was a nobody he was part of the um some british bleeding organization i forget it was you know uh i forget the name of it but fighting again you know he was fighting against the foreigners yeah i forget what he was now he came into the system converted he ended up with seven life sentences because what it is you're not liked no one really likes you you've not been liked at school you're not liked in society and then it's all come here brother come here brother cuddling him he's getting covered by 10 or 15 different people next to me he's got a great big beard yeah he's got the gear he's crashing on the floor in it in the mat yeah he's loved yeah he's brainwashed then they're going out in society killing people stabbing them chopping or putting bombs on them or committing acts in prison so what i believe if you come into the system and you don't like music being played you don't like galco you don't like drugs there's a lot of problems in the prison for that you don't like cooking bacon in the kitchen you're now stamping your foie well we cook bacon in this country and we eat it for years i know you want to change that and as a result of that there's a lot of problems so i'm saying if you come into the system and you don't like all of that it would stop people being converted because they're frightened so have prisons for just uh muslims especially the terrorists so they can't uh eradicate uh convert people and i would change that definitely okay is that a big problem is that massive okay there's people who have converted i would never believe were converted unbelievable because they're frightened make no bones about it in the prison system now i see a system where they're boiling up fat or melting plastic bottles or putting batteries in them slinging them in someone's face their face goes like crackling yeah ears fall off yeah that's that is very frightening and i've seen that yeah so to the average man who thinks i don't know that i'll just convert right because they don't want all that people coming in their cells saying nothing brother you've got to convert you've got to get off the wing wow but they never [ __ ] said that to me so i'd have punched them straight away but they knew that i know but i had a bit of a i was well liked and a reputation had a reputation but i was like for the right reasons so i was dead keen to get me to convert were they yeah there's a fella forget his name now the ministry of sound he got done for the bomb in that lot com planning to bomb him yeah do you remember that that long i was on the right machine it's a rubber lock yeah he's sitting down on the mat one man talked to me about various stuff i said listen i'm trying to work out here and i ain't never converting you ain't never going to change me so like leave it there and clear off but that's what they do and i would also have prisons where and let's not let's not just focus on that too much but it's a massive problem the prison system have got uh and it's it's way out of control now so they need to segregate people for their own reasons during the prison system for the benefit of the bigger population i would have prisons where if you want to come off the drugs you go to a prison and you're on closed visits permanently for at least six months to give you a chance to get off of it and get that thought pattern let's say 21 days starts becoming a habit yeah um 90 days to change your habit no it does change so have prisons where permanently closed visits if you want to come off drugs then go through this to get yourself clean are there any prisons you've been to what are the toughest prisons you've been to white moor long large false i've been full sun franklin very very very violent so this as you what's the feeling like you come out they're moving you from prison to prison you're cuffed up armed guards that move his next prison as you're walking into prison did the prisoners know who you are who's coming in yeah they go oh here comes kevin lane they know he's on his way so i was known in the prison system but please don't i'm not doing none of this no right yeah talking to realize i had no idea how it worked so i'm in white i'm in belmar shooting it banging out a screw a month big bodybuilders they were threatening me threatening to kill me and stuff like that i knocked him spark out he slid down the wall gotta go hospital i got charged for gbh yeah but the staff said he's been threatening them all day and the member staff made a statement saying he has been threatening lane all day yeah he's done nothing she's quite loud so what's the question again i was saying about the how dangerous the prisons are yes my question was when you come into prison as you're walking in everyone's looking outside kevin lane's on his way because they've heard about you knocking out staff yeah in the unit yeah so when you get there the hell is kevin lane yeah but they fix you to be six foot six and six foot six wide yeah they see a young boy baby fresh in front of him yeah happy go lucky yeah i think blimey but then the same goes on you're not having a few run-ins here and there so you're known before you get there and you walk into the prison system and because you're making a stand where let me tell you now not everybody makes a stand like you would think yeah they suffer people on the landings not everybody i believe there's a lot of very dangerous men in the prison system with good morals but you then become a bit of a lone soldier because people want to go home they don't want to make a stand yeah because he shouldn't be on the landings because you've got to go and tell your family that you've got a paedophile living next door to you or a rapist so on your landing give an example how many people would be on your landing depends on the style of the wing you could have 24 you could have 120. and you would know within time who's who and in each cell yeah okay yeah my next-door neighbor in one prison in white mall was involved in torturing war veterans from poland across europe for their savings i found out who he was said you better get off the [ __ ] landing if you're here when this door opens things aren't going to be very good for you so i tried to do it the right way yeah you've done yeah and as well as a few other matters you know staff used to tell you listen you ain't no good that one one fell off he was seven or nine counts of robbery by knife two of the women pregnant and he had one of the women captive in his house you know else with her children well he got it yeah and uh but i realized that that my moral code for this isn't right yeah because i was suffering for it and i've been bounced around the prison system i had 18 moves in four years 18. you're just bouncing bouncing bouncing bouncing all the time did they reckon the prison system felt like car kevin like he's a nuisance we don't want him in our prison because he's banging out banging out the staff would staff stop leaving me alone after a while i said don't [ __ ] on my record it says don't threaten lane because you'll have a problem yeah if you try and tell uh lane black is white you will have a problem and he will do something yeah if because i'm very angry about being in the first place so i'm not gonna have you threaten me yeah and i don't see why i'll suffer suffer your bollocks and your rules that are wrong in the first place after time and and i was very angry young man are you still angry today that you got put away and you did 18 years at that time when i'm talking to you dodge it comes out in me because i start thinking about some of the people i used to live with and there's so many people go to prison but they're not bad people they've just done something wrong yeah or but they come back out and they change their lives now however um i am i'm angry i'm still battling this today and the criminal justice system is still trying to push it under the carpet although the book clearly highlights that i've had i've been fitted up yeah clearly you don't have police officers come forward do you want to say you're innocent if you're [ __ ] gilly did you do the full 18 years did 20. you did 20 in total you got an extra two for banging people out well they said you're never going home late you're never going to go on we don't know how you this is happening where'd you get the other two from now what you do you get released when they feel you're no longer a danger to society yeah so i a screw come up to me said i don't know what you've done he said it's written on your file you're not to be released until you're very old or dead is that right yeah and i know through looking at other people in the system that have no trouble just sitting there in denial can't get off the book look at mickey still he's 77 he's just come off the book jack rollins for the essex boy murderer jack's been home a little while okay but charlie bronson i'm doing a documentary with uh um with i can't go into the details but charlie he's got a parole hearing coming up does he deserve to be in prison that long because you're put in a prison in a system that is run by violence you're put in a jungle where violence runs it so you've got a the staff can't protect you so you've got to resort to what is normal you need to do you need to defend yourself because they will come in they will and for anybody don't believe this sexually assault you rape ya stab ya who cons take your food off you take your possessions off you blackmail you make your phone your family up to send money over how do you do do you want to staff of course you don't because you're in your grass yeah a lot of the cons do but then it comes out so you make a stand because you're in there with violent people but you get punished for being making a stand in your defense gets used against you because you've defended yourself yeah and it says you're still being violent but you i'm in a system that is violent yeah and you can't protect me yeah so you don't go home yeah you go over your toe for longer but i've got powers in the system or no problem to anybody they can't get off the book and you've got vincent and smith in five wells prison with a handful of years left and they're flying through the system why is that is that claiming working with the authorities of course it is because you see other people like i said i've no problem who just stagnated tread water so it was very difficult what year did you come out 2015 then i got recalled for common assault we did 14 and a half months so you come out and then you got done again yeah well i had a girlfriend at the time and she got pissed out of her head yeah um hid my keys my car keys house keys and all the rest of it in her freezer giving it to me drunk uh and i'm on video five times putting her back in the house and on one of the occasions she's coming out and i had a nice range rover an autobiography sport like you fully loaded new she's only running up down the side of it with her keys kicking it and punching it and scratching it i got out putting my arms around to put her indoors she's then come out with another plate off on the fifth and final time when she's walking around the road it's hardly any clothes and she's got a shirt on i went and grabbed her and threw her i've got 14 and a half months for that and saying don't worry about provocation you're a lifer you're a life licensed you resorted to violence you're a fruit blood yeah i went to prison for a non-custodial offence for 14 and a half months and i'm glad i've got that on camera so i can show people if i want but i wouldn't do that okay it's bad enough i went to prison for it's bad enough what we went through um and then i got recalled again so you did so you did the 14 and a half months how long were you out for before you got put back in again two months you're joking me and i had a new probation officer i'd never met and he was reporting on me uh and he reported a number of facts that were proven to be wrong and i was released again by the secretary of state on a friday night at 7 30. and when you're released they just go off you go you open the door you're away no one's waiting for you or anything like that what's that well they opened the door i said lane get your kit the second mistake wants you gone immediately i would shut the door a minute i've got a few things to do yeah i did yeah i thought i'm not making it out i've got my fast slippers i don't want to get out of here but stuff was alright you know so i got my kit i thought right there's legend in ain't got nothing yeah and i just boxed it all up and said to my pal next door jason i said give this to everybody yeah who needs it yeah and i've got an uber cab and i had a barn annex in um bad shot lee for palomin guilford you should get him one here okay all right name gary mccann okay i done under 68 fights knocked out five world champions in the gym it was forced to be reckoned with this day but now very philosophy it's a great story okay anyway um i've got uber cab there and so we're talking you've done your 14 months you've come out yeah and i've got an uber cab to him yeah okay uh on the second time there's a pub on the corner of the road he weren't there so i was straight in the pub and then i sat with uh three old ladies were in their 70s yeah and had a drink with them lovely bought them a drink and they bought me one bought me one back and i'll bless them they won't let me they said no we gotta buy your dreams and did you did you uh did you learn after that are you at a point how old are you now you've come out you've done your your your 20 years you've gone and done another 14 months how old would you come out the second time roughly very personal question you're looking good for your age to be fair well i'm not going to tell you how old i'll bleed now but actually i'm 54. yeah so uh so roughly 46 36 47 okay 47. and then when you come out that time did you think right i've learned my lesson now i'm not going to be doing anything i want to go full-on straight i'll set up a company straight away and that company turned over seven several million pounds doing what a building company yeah i had five sites up and down the country i did 1.7 million off of one company in one year and i'd have a bits and pieces and i set up a haulish firm so laurie's taking mucks out the ground and bucks in that's still going uh i just we had covid and bits and pieces so did you stop though with that the second time you come out you think you know what i've learned my lessons take a long time to be banging people out and and staff and stuff did you go i've come out now i'm i'm done look i can trust myself to behave yeah that's the thing you can't trust other people yeah okay so if someone winds you up or gets in your face or in your grill you'll be like i've got to deal with this i'll deal with if you get anywhere near me yeah so don't come past there because they're coming into my space what do you want to get so close to me for yeah and you can pretty much tell dodge can't you if someone's gonna have a popper yeah so what you must understand is in prison you cannot become a master avoiding problems yeah and calming situations that's an art it's an art yeah you can see always look yeah that's not that's you know that's defensive yeah you know that's like begging not begging but reasonably and there's a way of talking to people so i've become pretty good at that because towards the latter part of my years in prison there was very minimal amounts of violence um you're always going to get advanced when you're known yeah that's a fact um did you find that people wouldn't have a goat yeah because you're not one of the toughest in there everything hold on let's have a go i'll have it i'll have a go of him did you find that older people like you know what i can't be above to have a tear up with kev when you're listening you're knocking up [ __ ] quite big lumps yeah you're fighting you'll fight a few people in one go yeah and be quite successful yeah um as a young man of course not now but people they stay clear they don't want to make a name for themselves because they know that if they come to you it's going to be problems do you think that do you think the system criminals being in prison leave prison with a better criminal mind to do more crime a prisoner will stop committing crime when he's had enough is it a life-changing experience he's had children uh or he'll just continue to commit crime because that's his life and he accepts that yeah i came home i like work uh it's a waste of life going to prison the complete waste of life unless you bring stomach out of it for you but um i didn't want to go back so i moved i changed my circles yeah to a certain degree yeah um but i can be out say we was out in a boozer yeah okay and i turn around i bump into someone spit it over drinking him you [ __ ] idiot i'm sorry listen i'll pay for your shirt i'm sorry buddy it's just a bit tight in here they ain't good enough yeah they look at you because you think you're a bit of a bloody soft touch yeah okay they're hell bent on putting on you yeah what do you do they're putting around on you you're going to tell your probation officer yeah i've knocked him out he put his hand on me you've used violence kevin yeah and as soon as you lose use violence again they look at your record that's not going to help so i've got a custody record not customer i've got an access for my son okay and it's been going on four years and because i've been in prison for contract killing i'm heavily scrutinized and it's difficult so i didn't see my son for a year once because cafcast and social services were investigating it closed the case but because of my criminal record i was knackered fell out with the ex wallop and i have to go for all of that what's it like coming out of prison knowing that people are saying he's a contract killer he's a hitman but he got accused of something that he didn't do well that's it's it's warming when people fight your cause but it's yeah it's very warming for everyone but the flip side is when they use it against you yeah for personal matters like i've just explained that's very detrimental and hard yeah because you think i've just spent 20 odd years in prison and now you're punching me still and i'm innocent yeah but to have people stand up and start shouting from the rooftops if you are innocent yeah whether it be journalists nick hopkins louise shortier um as the marching etc etc then you and mark daily of panorama um you start thinking about quite large people yeah believing in you yeah and it's rewarding must be a nice warm feeling right it's unbelievable so i've got a producer contacting me from cbs fox soon in relation to a documentary for channel four yeah that's going to go viral yeah that's going to america and i'll be doing that and i'll be talking about the prison system and the parole system and so on and so forth and i'm hoping it'll help certain person to get his parole yeah um do you think they'll ever do a netflix movie on this story i have already spoken to someone in relation to next fix and he's uh and quite a few other people i believe they will yes because the book itself is absolutely fantastic you've had ray burgess you've had leon f butler he works at vidcon elbara isn't it um ken scott and his uh leo greg says other people that have come to me and said kevin this is a film it's unbelievable it's a bit like ruben carter smith the hunger you can never believe it happened the guildford four yeah what went on with them in the name of the father my book is exactly the same as that and for the listeners here tell us about your book so my book fitted up and fighting back okay it's on amazon um waterstones um fitting up and fighting back website excellent read i donate to four charities i don't make a penny out of it okay um it's been excellently received and uh may it continue i try to write messages in but i do like messaging all the books that i purchased from the office a nice little personalized message but it goes into detail about the case yeah and there's there's no been no no orders have been put on that saying you can't publish that no more because it's all factual it's taken from documentation i've had disclosed to me through the criminal justice system yeah and it highlights stuff so all of that is all in there in the whole book of facts facts and there's stuff in there about coppers visiting people uh investigations that have taken place that have been pushed under the carpet so a gentleman contacted my solicitor called tam jewelry he bought the gun off of vincent that was used in the murder he said it was a pump action shotgun he came forward and said as an innocent man in prison they fitted him up harfordshire police shot up to see him threatened to nick him for perverting the course of justice he said what have i got to gain he said i've got to face the wrath of the criminal fraternity for coming forward yeah he said i will do that and i'll get in the box and i would do that because you've got an innocent man in prison and those pair of arseholes have been admitting to this murder and other murders they've blamed him for yeah very difficult have you had any trouble since leaving prison so i've got a contract on my life i've already gone up to 200 grand now i was just told that the weekend but i've had three warnings whilst i was in prison i don't know i'm not bad now i've had that many i don't even keep count of them but that is because people don't want the truth to come out do they and they're desperate to shut me up so yeah i've had people threatening to kill me i've had a couple of blokes going around uh three years ago in watford well i couldn't go because i'm not allowed in her fortune and they went up to someone so i'm god parent a brahman one of a brand well a brahman which is personal bodyguard uh i'm i'm godparent to his child and these two fellows went up to who they thought was a brahman which is bodyguard but it was it was my powered brother that makes sense yeah yeah they said listen blah blah blah we're going to kill kevin lane we're going to put one in his nut we're friends of such and uh we're going to do him so i'll get a phone call i couldn't go there but my pal's good my pals were sitting there photographing them how stupid are their men i'm actually what do you want to do i said i'll just take photographs of them we've got them in me if you ever need them i like to go and find them and talk about their ways or their uh the error of their ways so i have that i have to be mindful of that because it doesn't take there's kids running around with guns now yeah look at little boy blue in liverpool yeah it's disgraceful yeah so it doesn't take nothing to kill someone in these kids eyes no more so yeah i have to face with that but i won't be shut up yeah i go where i want um i'm mindful of it of course you think well you don't want to go somewhere you're an easy target yeah so yeah i have got a few people want to fill me with holes which is a bit sad really because all i'm doing is saying well look if roger vincent is saying them confidential chats are uh they're wrong that he hasn't made them then that means that the police have made him up and they were disclosed to vincent's legal team at the court the old bailly so if the police have made him my conviction is unsafe and if vincent has said him then he's fitting me up with the police so either way it's a win-win for me do you lose sleep over this every night no no no i don't know no i sleep pretty well but the case is getting now to the pinnacle where people are actually saying well he's got a point here yeah if you were to wave a magic wand today would be the best case scenario right now roger vincent comes forward and says look i was a young lad at the time i had a nervous breakdown uh i did tell the police this because uh it got me off all right and or whatever he wants to say but he'd do the right thing and more people have more respect for him for the right reasons because he then gets my conviction squashed i go off into the sunset and carry on and what are you allowed to do right now i can't leave the country without permission i can't go on holiday abroad i can go to work which i do go to work i've got business interests abroad which i go um i'd be able to go into a court over say access to my son and not be tarnished because of my criminal record right okay that follows you about follows me everywhere i go yeah and it's disgraceful i've had one family called judge said just because mr lane's a convicted contract killer doesn't mean he isn't a good father yeah what a touch yeah but it isn't always like that yeah so a scenario just get on with my life start a new life move uh move somewhere where i'm away from people because i've been banged up in a house for people for 20 years and i'll come from the countryside so that was a bit uh abnormal for me i don't want to be in the fresh air listen to the the wind and the trees rustling and a few animals and watch my grandchildren grow up and my children and is it freedom for you it's not freedom when you know they can just come and take you off the street and put you back in okay and the difference being when you're a lifer an investigation has to be conducted but in the meantime you will be in prison yeah okay and then you might spend a lengthy time you know i spent like say 14 and a half months during coving yeah no courts are open yeah banged up yeah that's a big it's another 14 and a half months how long have you been out for june last year june last year what's it like when you haven't seen the world the outside world for all those years and now you're coming out and seeing everything change if you know it's a massive change when you come back out there's loads of foreign nationals in the country loads of them i i went to um [Music] hull on my first town visit escorted town visit and i had all these languages i think bloody hell different colour there big bumper trainers and stuff you know but i thought listen the country needs it the the the industry's growing he needs extra staff that was strange no blue i didn't understand bluetooth sat nav memorable information different colored bins yeah all that type of stuff uh but i adapted to it because i was hungry for for life yeah i didn't find some people suffering and they find it hard to adjust what about coming out any food you allow any food you wanted to eat are the chinese yeah i was in i had a chinese right and uh yeah it was yeah it's nice it's things like that booze i found i could stand up and drink yeah because i was brewing my own booze in prison yeah and that can be thirty forty fifty percent yeah strong i had it tested once after three days it was uh thirty one percent you know i got a bit of bang up for that i've got a 28 day lay down what's it what's a 28 lay down carmen carmen off period i spent 17 days in the block all right just in that what force at the four corner walls yeah so i spent 17 days in there yeah then i sent on a 28-day call and off pier to bell marsh unit and i sent to franklin i thought you know that's a bit strong and belle marsh is the toughest prison out there high security um you've got the maximum security unit but i would say long lantern um white more are the most dangerous i mean in 2011 or 12 i might be wrong on the facts here there was five murders in the high security estate that you've never heard of wow giza heard his penis cut off stuck in his mouth his goat bells were intestines were gutted that was in franklin you had one in grenden but five murders now when i came in in 95 there'd been one murder in eight years right what does that tell you about the people are coming in now very violent i've seen knives made that big that would go from what from what they only had a bleeding uh pen a still shop yeah in long large right okay a still shot for crosstalk yeah of course they're all making this bleeding great nice you know yeah make your shiver when you look yeah dangerous kevin this has been fascinating i don't know i think i'm a waffle a bit too much no no this is really fascinating i really thank you for coming down here and telling your story well thank you very much yeah it's been an eventful life and um i really hope you can get your uh name put out there and and get that freedom that you're after there's another thank you there's another side to me so we're just discussing a system that evokes a certain personality in me but you take me out of here and sit outside there there's a completely different person yeah that's what i've seen and you're like a fun happy go have a laugh person but if someone flicks your switch there's a lot of people like that isn't it of course don't touch me i won't touch you yeah but uh i talk about this because i hope it brings recognition to not just myself but people like pete well taller as innocent in franklin and others like that uh and there's quite a few of them and there could be a lot of documentaries coming out on you as well there is you get the fitted up and fighting back website it's got documentaries panorama on that they said is a game changer yeah what they've and i'm due to go back to the criminal cases review commission for them to reconsider my conviction again yeah but let me tell you something about that quickly this is very important that people don't realize so i've had several applications to the criminal cases review commission i subsequently found out that uh the chief council of police at the time of my murder was one of the 14 commissioners in there also the barrister convicted me he's now dead he died of cancer tumor they set up a trust called the kalasha trust the candidate trust supports barristers in their training working in the ccrc so if my case comes before them they're never going to squash my conviction are they i'll go up on my appeal when i got released from prison based on this paperwork that was sent to my solicitor from an anonymous source who do you think i go up in front of on my appeal law chief justice raffi law chief justice rafferty was sitting at khalisha's bed when he was dying and said we set up the trust she stepped into my appeal two weeks before i went up on it is that not biased further to that in the ccrc i wrote to them and said do anybody in the ccrc knows police officers involved in my case they said yes it's inevitable staff within the ccrc no police officers involved in your case or know someone who knows them but we do not feel this would cause the impartial observer to form the view of bias what do you think and i'm only touching on the on this if you have come away from the violence here yeah okay and spoke about the criminal justice system and what really goes on yeah and i i just continue a little bit so um private eye magazine heather mills not the heavens but a journalist she was sitting in the shawn knicker woods kingston crown court and there was a derrick webb was a police officer that was following the royal family and he worked out that he never changed their cars by keeping the same number plate as a result mi5 radio dls took every bit of paperwork out of the else and then there was a file called the misco with justice of kevin langford he was going to sell that to the media okay who was derek webb former police officer yeah turn private right yeah i wrote to various police forces looking for this file they denied it existed heather mills wrote to my solicitor and said i've just been present during a public immunity interest hearing a hearing shall i say in relation to this derrick webb's case and the miscarriage of justice file came up and they placed it under public community interest and yet they denied it existed yeah and derek webb says there's information in there that says kevin elaine is innocent and it's stuff like that that goes on that's in my book yeah that i haven't discussed here today but people say well that can't be right how can i suppress it because i'm entangled with the royal family and mi5 i'm never going to get it yeah they will never disclose it yeah because they would never admit it exists but it was mentioned in open court so i'm i'm really looking forward to reading your book look all i say is this yeah get a page one yeah if you don't like it give it to someone you don't like all right that's a that's a win-win in it but i noticed for a fact based on people who have read it a hundred thousand in a book club book of the year yeah you can't put it down julie christie oscar winner yeah couldn't put it down kevin and it just goes online yeah so i'm pleased of it and thank you for giving me the time to end my show but i would like to say this to your viewers and listeners violence is a terrible thing but why is the world run on violence and force where if someone like iran for instance and their children have died why don't our country give them all the medical supplies they need and if it was your child it was saved by the medication we'd give you you'll say england saved my son or my daughter why's it always got to be violent yeah it's sad isn't it yeah i don't like violence and i wish the world could be a little bit different yeah more giving rather than i agree totally agree kevin probably enjoyed that mate thank you very much thanks for making the effort down here thanks to all the listeners and viewers [Music]

Channel: Dodge Woodall

Views: 260,681

Keywords: podcast, Kevin lane, murder charge, crime, corruption, life sentence, panorama, innocence, story, life, full, episode

Id: GdGJ97JrV2A

Length: 92min 9sec (5529 seconds)

Published: Fri Jul 15 2022