Caught With £300k Coke & Surviving Venezuela’s Deadliest Prison: Natalie Welsh

there's San Antonio prison in Margarita it's like a village it's a self-sufficient Village like contained within the perimeter of the wall prisoners with prisoners shotguns with shotguns patrolling the roof of the prison the police are just letting them get on with what they got if it kicks off when they're going to get involved you can do anything you want in there Etc it's kind of highlighted that they haven't really got any control and they don't appreciate that you think you know the worst thing could happen here or were you just not caring I was at a point where I didn't really value my life did you ever think about escaping Natty welcome to the show thanks very much thanks for having me yeah I'm really looking forward to so I really do appreciate you flying over from Spain for this one this is a very uh special moment this one okay well it's my pleasure yeah let's um let's start let's get cracking let's roll all the way back and uh where did you grow up and how did you end up in venezuelan's most deadliest prison so I grew up in Gloucester um and I had quite a particularly evil stepfather so um I ended up being put into the system and then going up into a children's home when I was about I don't know 12 13 I think so then um you know I was just messed up you know like um most children that come from like damaged homes they kind of struggle as they start to go into adulthood you know they struggle to haven't quite learned their kind of basic cognitive skills that most people learn so um to then like when I came out of the children's home um I had some difficulties in there as well I had a relationship with my social worker um who's the father of my child um hold on hold on yeah you're in a relationship with a social worker when you went into a social home yeah Social Club what age did you go into the social care home 12 or 13. and how old were you when you started a relationship with the 14 my God and how old was he 32 you're joking no yeah so it kind of like went from one kind of extreme situation to another extreme situation and then like in the children's home we just we just ran Riot there was just there was no consequences to actions you know I got expelled from school from one day and took like temp in Bowling the next day you know got caught shoplifting one day and then was in the office the next day getting my clothing Grant you know so it sounds like quite a bizarre concept but I really didn't understand that if you do something wrong there are consequences to that which sounds like absurd really but if you're not grown up you know taught these things and you just don't kind of grasp you know the consequences of your actions how did you what was the bit where they who is it your mum or your dad put you in Social care um it was like the police really um so I was I didn't react very well to um how like my stepdad was treating me and so I rebelled against it quite a lot um and then um so is your stepdad who was evil yeah why was he evil I don't know man like what did he what he used to do oh he just abused me like mentally physically like literally like tortured me like physically tortured me and like physically mentally like abused me and like my mum I don't really know like I just don't think she knew I think that by the time it kind of got like that I've I think that he'd probably kind of like worked on her and had her like you know it's quite good yeah I think so and I just think that she was just in a position where she just didn't know what to do you know there she had like children with him and they had a house and I think that he had like mentally abused her so you know she didn't really like stick up for me but I was just trying to like defend myself all the time and um so it was just full-on like um like I said violence and torturing in the in the family home it was horrendous so what age what age did were you introduce your stepdad as soon as I he's like from whenever I can remember from birth yeah up until the age of 12 13 you were mentioning physically tortured by this guy yeah constantly yeah and then like so it really affected me like with my friendship groups because he didn't hold back in front of of like friends either so no one wanted to come around my house you know so I'd like go you know like most people most kids they go around each other's houses aren't they and play around each other's houses and like my friend I could come right under my stepdaughter like he didn't care he just like still beat me like physically just annihilated me like what Punch Yeah Yeah I'd be like black and blue and broken bones and yeah it was pretty bad is he still alive this man yeah yeah have you seen him since um I saw him like when I came back from Venezuela my mum died while I was in Venezuela and um so I had a brother and sister that lived with him so when I came back from Venezuelan I went back to get my sister out of the house because he he carried out he did the same thing with her you know it wasn't just um specific to me he did the same thing with his own daughter that's his name I can't say that why not I can't do that because um I could get into trouble oh yeah do you feel hugely angered of what's going on uh I did yeah for like a long time um because of like I used to think if he wasn't in my mum's life how would my life have like gone in the direction that my life would have gone in but you know everything happens for a reason and I was strong enough to to take it it's taken a long time but to come to terms with it and when I think about the direction that my life has gone in and where I am now I wouldn't have any of that would I without any of that and I think if I hadn't have been me then maybe it would have been someone else that wouldn't have been strong enough to handle it and wouldn't have done the things I have so you just have to kind of like accept it and find some peace with it was it a relief for you when you got to put into social care oh so much yeah yeah yeah massively like I did I didn't want to go back at all like my mum wanted me to go back and like just like there was there was just no way so you were you're going to social care in a real vulnerable state and did you find that a 32 year old took advantage of a vulnerable 14 year old I don't think so at the time yeah I didn't think so at the time um like I want to say I played my part but you know I was like a messed up kid really you know and he was in a um position um where if he's got a messed up 14 kind of making advances at him then it's his job to um you know decline those advances not to feel flattered by them it's you know but then it's also like I find it really weird that like because he was my key worker so I find it really odd that social services allocated me a 32 year old male key worker yeah like that's absurd you know to for a 14 year old vulnerable girl that has been having that has a history of you know abuse and also a history of you know inappropriate relationships with older men like who in their right Minds then you know and especially in a in an industry that's supposed to be Savvy in in this kind of area then allocates you you know with a you know a 32 year old male figure to for you to then kind of confide in then to take care of you and trying to get to the root of your problems you know I just find that um you know absurd absolutely and did you have a relationship with him for how long I was 19 I think in the end when it when it finished yeah and what age were you when you had a kid with him 16. wow wow yeah he was still working as a care worker when you when you had a kid with him people didn't know you know he lost his job because of that yeah okay yeah and he was married as well like married with kids I know I couldn't write it I know yeah no he lost yeah he lost his job for um gross misconduct um so we should have yeah that's a piss take I know and I'm like you said that I know you've taken responsibility as well by saying well actually you know I was making advances and so you have taken responsibility there but still a 32 year old man getting paid to protect people like yourself typically refusing those advances immediately like I try and think of if I had a younger boy like me can advance as you you know you just like yeah you don't even go through your mind no no no yeah no so it's all but I mean Social Services I mean it was just an absolute nightmare the the things that the the social workers were up to in the Children's Home that we lived in it was just like the culture that they had um you know there was there was a social worker that was a heroin addict and he used to lock himself in there we used to love it when he was on duty you know because we just like absolutely ran Wyatt because he'd be like in the office you know like smack that like just not a not really very responsive you know and give us anything we wanted because he just wanted us to go away because he's like gay tonight in the office he sold his story to the newspapers um what's his name he's dead nice um Gary his name was Gary I can't remember what his last name was but yeah he died of an overdose in the end and he used to send he we used to go at him and he used to send us into the pharmacy to pick up like he wasn't alive there was certain like cough medicines and things like that that the pharmacist wouldn't sell him anymore because they had like opiates in them and he was just known so we'd be out in like the Children's Home car he'd like picking us up from somewhere or taking us out from somewhere I need pull over at the Pharmacists and like get us running in to let like get these medicines and stuff but he wasn't allowed and then there was another one um that kidnapped one of the boys and took him away to a holiday home abused him and then hung himself in the holiday home with the boy there so it was just you know it's just a horrendous culture and what year are we talking here roughly so this was let me think 25 30 years ago so what we're talking here in the 90s in the 90s yeah yeah in the like mid-90s like mid to and just explain me what what is a Care Homes a care home is where all the kids are in one home yeah and people are coming in and out looking after you the whole time or they sit are they sleeping and staying there they're sleeping and staying like I don't think they even exist anymore from what I can gather like I don't think the children's homes even exist anymore I think they just have like um you either go into foster care or they have like supported housing um because of this culture because I think it got discovered that it just really wasn't um helpful for the for the because you know you've got messed up kids there so what you're going to do you're going to put like there were 50 I think there were about 50 of us we lived in this massive you have a good laugh in there yeah all these stories that I think at a right laughter too yeah yeah yeah we were just like we were wild you know and we had like it was this massive mansion house you know we had these huge grounds and there were like 50 of us living there from the age of like nine up to 16. you've got 15 messed up you know rebellious kids living together you know you can I remember once we were um causing so much Ruckus that the manager of the children's home just got so fed up with me and uh he locked me and my friend into this in the top room of the children of this mansion loxus and he's had enough um so I managed to get out through a bad window you know I started showing my uh you love your training yeah yeah I think that's where it came from it was just a little practice run so I managed to like get hikes with this bad window climbed up onto the roof they phoned the police so the police came brought their ladders climbed up on the roof um negotiated with me to get down so I got down then I ran off with a ladder and left the police wanted so they couldn't go down left the moon on top of the children quality oh yeah we were just because again like I said it was just like this no rules no well there were rules but to be broken but yeah because if you broke them what could they do like we'd go out and they'd say right you have to be at um like Gloucester bus station at you know eight o'clock you know their car is going to be there to pick everyone up at eight o'clock and you're right eight o'clock comes you're like I don't want to go home and they've got to pick you up when you phone them up at two o'clock in the morning and you know and you say come and get me they can't say no they have to come and get you and how old were you when you left the home 16. is that is that the rules 16 you're right and you're right I left on my 16th birthday were there drugs in the home um he yeah there was it was amphetamine it was like smoking harsh and and speed yeah and Phentermine and what was your journey at the age of 16 obviously you got pregnant with the care home worker what was your journey from 16 onwards there then in your teens so um I were taking drugs like not when I was pregnant but I was got into the Rave scene um so I was going to a lot of raves like the Dreamscapes and the fantasias and like the free parties you know the illegal ones in the Barns and the warehouses they're the best times yeah so I was into that so I was taking pills and sniffing the coke and you know it was like Mitsubishi turbos at the time and you know um Happy Hardcore and all that kind of thing so um and I was taking amphetamines as well so I was like kind of like really into that um but I was still I was I was just messed up still you know I had not really I was still quite young like emotionally under developed really I think in an immature so I still kind of wasn't processing anything from my childhood for my stepdad or like and I think I was just kind of like processing that this relationship that I'd had with this social worker was that it wasn't right you know but I was still just kind of struggling to deal with all that so I just like masking those feelings and instead of like dealing with it and trying to come to turn to an understand a bit just kind of pushing it all to one side so I was taking like the pills the coat the speed and then um whilst looking after your kid not well she'd be like no I'd go out and take like those things how are you earning money to look after your little um so I was on I used to work for the fair um like I used to run away with them all the time when I was in the children's home and then when I left the children's home I was still working for work what the Fanfare yeah okay we go and work all around the cup yeah okay yeah yeah I'd run away and go and find them and work with work with them um and then Sam then I'd work on like they had um uh food stall in the Town Center so I'd like work for them and then I was on benefits as well you know as a single man I had a council flat and benefits and then I just like have a babysitter and like go out to the parties and the wave and that's when I take the pills and everything yeah but then um so split I think when I was like 19 like I really realized like how wrong this relationship was and like how messed up it was and started to feel like quite conscious like that he was like a lot older than me and like it was just you know I really started to understand that it just wasn't right so um a parted ways and like split up with the social worker which was quite difficult really he kept saying to me all the time he was going to leave his wife and then we were going to be together and you know bloody blah blah you know all that kind of stuff so it took a few years for me to realize that that was just lip service um and then the area that I was living in there was um like all the yardies had come over from Jamaica and it was just a massive influx of like crack cocaine and you know in Gloucester I don't know what it's like now but in Gloucester like towards the end of the 90s and they had loads of like Crews that had come over like proper organized um Crews coming over and they just flooded the area with crack cocaine and I suppose I was a prime target really you know I didn't really have much family support I didn't have any family support you know I was quite venerable and there was a a girl that lived in in the area and she just kind of made a beeline for me you know she came around and started bringing you know cracked grind and sharing it with me and I thought that you know it was really nice of her because I knew that it was expensive and but like that was it once once I tried it it just completely like had me do you remember the first time you tried crack I remember yeah I remember the first time she brought it round and it just um just like blew my head Away really it was just like it was such a an intense feeling like the the rash and the physical feeling of it just um I didn't have title just wasn't able to like think about anything you know because it was just like a yeah you know like an explosion of pleasure in the brain um and how long does that last for car not very long okay yeah not very long and you're like climbing the walls for the for the next yeah for the next hit so she was like bringing this around all the time and um because I didn't have any money and then I remember like this had been going on for like maybe a couple of weeks and I got my gyro and that was it man it was gone in like in an hour yeah like every penny just gone like and then I just got into this Loop then of just you know and then just kidding myself being like I won't do it next time and it doesn't work like that and then just getting involved in crime and stuff to support my habit was at the time when you realized you had an addictive personality um I was disappointed in myself yeah because I couldn't I didn't I don't think I really knew much about addictive personalities or anything like that but I was embarrassed you know I was really embarrassed and um was trying to hide it from my friends and which is silly because it because they could have helped me and instead of me kind of admitting what was going on I was just like no no no and it was so obvious because I'm like hanging around with yardies I'm looking like a skeleton I've got no money but no I'm not smoking crack yeah there's a few sides right yeah you know just like this kind of um I don't know a world that I'd kind of created for myself all this I don't know just naivety of just kind of kidding myself really and what did that lead to then you're doing crack you got introduced to this girl obviously she had a Bee Line on you thinking hold on a minute I can get her to do things for me what was the next steps for you to be earning money by that woman there yeah well she introduced me so they're not all the crack leaders then they they would they she was kind of like her kind of role was to kind of was to grow and find people and like get them hooked on crack and then bring them to the dealer so the dealers were then like get in own them yeah and just getting you know more custom and new customer so they used to give her a crack to then go and find to give to the people get them hooked and then you know introduce them and meet them so then I started doing um credit card I was doing fraud and credit card working for a crew um and again just being kind of manipulated really earning loads of money for everybody else and actually kind of being like bullied a little bit and not really getting earning much myself out of it kind of just uh trapped then really did you feel like you were completely owned at one point yeah massively like totally owned by the drug and owned by the people yeah and I just didn't know what to do I just couldn't I'd keep saying every day I'd wake up and be like I'm not going to do it today but it just doesn't work like that and then it just becomes such a routine and a habit that you don't know what else to do because your life has been consumed by that you know so you wake up in the morning and you're like how am I going to school today I'm going to do this I'm going to do that so you've got a structure to your to your day you know and you have these this circle of people that you're around so if you don't do that all of a sudden it's like well I didn't you don't know what to do like with yourself and you're just kind of sat in your house like with your thoughts you know and it's just easier to just go and take the drugs and not be left alone with your thoughts and have that structure again of being busy and you know plotting and scheming and were you it was you waking up every day going I need to earn enough money to get me a gram of crack oh yeah my whole life was just literally like it was totally revolved around how I was going to score if I didn't have any money or if I didn't have you know something set up already it was my whole thoughts were consumed with what I was going to do and how I was going to get money completely trapped everything oh it was horrible and I was like I said I was just like I was so ashamed of my like it was just Soul destroying you know and what was your what was your route then what was your route the age of 19 you probably got a three-year-old kid now daughter yeah what was your what was your route when you were so trapped in that was there a route there saying like you can earn some bigger money here um it was yeah so I got off ered to start smuggling and there were like a couple of reasons like why I wanted to do it it was uh sounds like crazy but I think the biggest thing for me was it was an opportunity to get away from the crack which sounds crazy you know but it was like do you want a gun it was like right yeah if I go there like I can't get it that you know even though I might have a suitcase of it I can't just start like opening up a suitcase and like yeah yeah yeah so um and then so and then like when I was offered the money I thought right so I can go there I can have a break from it I can get my head together I can get clean and then when I come back because I had nothing dodged like I'd sold everything you know no sofa no TV like honestly my flat was just like so bare no clothes like just nothing at all so I thought like well if I go there I can get clean I can get some money and then when I come back you know I won't do it anymore and I'll turn my life around and I can decorate my flat and just you know the lies that you say to yourself and your kid yourself to justify your actions which is an addict where were you where were you what countries did you start smuggling drugs into and what drugs was it so I started off with Jamaica um and I was I was supposed to be bringing back some cocaine from Jamaica but it went wrong so when I was there I actually didn't have to bring anything back in the end so I was quite happy because I got a free holiday to Jamaica so give me example of that how much would they pay you to go to Jamaica to pay your flight will they get you to meet some in the other end there's a suitcase waiting what yeah break it down so um you have your flight paid for and then so in Jamaica I was staying like um I stay in it like it was a hotel it was it was I don't know if it was like uh it's not a hotel that any tourists would go to um and then I was supposed to swallow it in Jamaica like they took me to this I stayed in the hotel a bit and then they took me to like a house in the country and then I was supposed to swallow these bullets they were like probably right that big and probably about when I saw them I thought that no I went there for you're supposed to like swallow those um but then we heard like the people I was working for in the UK heard that one of the rival gangs had found out that I was over there and they'd grasp me up and we'd heard that there were the police were going to be like waiting for me interrogating me at the airport so the last minute I didn't have to do it which was like quite a big relief because I didn't know how I was going to do it when I saw the size of these like bullets I had to swallow I thought I don't know how I'm gonna do that so I didn't get paid for anything from that but I got a free holiday and how long are you there for uh about nine days I think and did you not get the what was going through your mind okay you're probably at Rock Bottom here like you mentioned a minute ago but what's going through your mind when you're going there again I'm going to bring x amount of Coke I'm going to swallow x amount of cocaine and it's gonna sit inside me and if anything bursts I'm in trouble I just didn't think about it yeah and I thought I was invincible for so many years you know again I didn't think it's this thing about consequences Dodge you know it's about not knowing that there are consequences and what those consequences could be because if you do think about that you're not going to do it how much how much cocaine did they want you to swallow I think it was like well it's as much as you can but they want you to get between like half a kilo and a kilo over it depends like on the side yeah it depends on the size of the of the person but when there's when you're swallow in it then they're definitely aiming between like you know around around half kilo I think for a girl and if it's like bigger guys and stuff they want them to try and get a kilo over I bet there's relief on it when you got there and he said you could yeah happening yeah definitely so that was your first smuggling do you remember your next one yeah I went next one was Holland so I used to do a ren from Harwich to hook it was on the boots so that was quite different um and I think this is where I really started to like the the levels and the depths of Despair that I had just got even worse because so I'd gone to Holland brought some stuff over it was all packed on me so I had like about you know and I I was like still I had like a few people holding the bricks on like this and then someone like walking around with like the gaffer teeth like with the electrical tape just like electrical tape and it all to me so I had like bricks there bricks hair bricks hair bricks there all kilos yeah um yeah it's quite a bit I mean I was making somebody a lot of money um and I was getting paid four grand which is you know nothing but to me that was a lot of you know yeah I mean I was being taken advantage of um but you know these people they're professionals and it's their job to work on you and to smooth you and make you feel that you're you know looked after and you know and that they care about you and that everything's all right you know it's all so were you getting the 4GS at four grand up front or when you landed back two up front and then two when I got back okay and how long were you in Holland for and who were you who who are you meeting where were you meeting and how long are you there until they were wrapping around x with probably 10 keys of coke around you so I'd get to hook and then from a hook I'd go to waterdam and then um I was met in Rotterdam by it was a bunch of Moroccans so it's like a Moroccan crew that would like take care of me in Holland um and I was there like a couple of days and they'd like take me out and and buy me some clothes and take me out for food and you know they just treat me nice and at that time were you like I feel good about this people are being nice to me yeah and it just felt good to be a way like to not be smoking crack and just to be away from you know my just to change the environment and then so I was fantasizing in my head this whole time I was fantasizing that um I sound so bad it like makes me laugh like when I think about the mentality that I had I'm just like you absolutely off your head or what I'd fantasize fantasizing about being you know an international drug Smuggler like at a career you know because I could see like people that I was working with me had nice houses and nice things and you know and I I wanted that life you know and I was like okay I could do this and I could fly across the world and you know and have like nice things and many and like really considered it as a as a viable like career option you know um which is just insane Bonkers how much money street value do you reckon you had wrapped around during cocaine car got street value it's like 100 pounds of gram isn't it so what's that so I mean I'd like one two three four five six that's like six kilos so what's that a hundred times a thousand for one kilo is hundred five six hundred thousand and you're getting four grand I was getting four grand yeah that's insane yeah and you're taking all the risk apart from the Financial Risk wow yeah what did you wear do you remember were using your own passport what were you wearing on the day did they put you in did they kick you out to say yeah it looks okay yeah yeah yeah they kidding me yeah that's the example yeah they took me um clothes shop in sportswear so it was um but this isn't like a lesson for anybody by the way on what to do if you're smuggling but um they they'd have like I'd have tracksuit bottoms on you know like from Nikes or Adidas or something like that and then like a baggy t-shirt and then there's like a sports jacket on top of it or just loose baggy sportswear so you just looked like a normal Bud blending in yeah coming back on the boat yeah and what was that feeling like when you're going through customs that end and also this end um I wasn't really that phased because you know I had these professionals working on me saying that you know it was okay and that they knew this Rue and the people were in on the route and um I'd been staying with before I went over there the first time I was staying and hanging around as part of the crew like in London and Harwich I was staying with people that had already been doing it or so they said you know who knows so you know they were talking me through it the whole time and telling me that they'd been doing it for years and so it was just I've been prepped quite quite well really so I didn't expect it to go any other way apart from the way that it went did you fly did you was Customs easy did anyone didn't give you a tug anyone clock you yeah yeah yeah how nervous were you you got stopped yeah I got stopped yeah got stopped and um they opened my soup and I had like all this stuff like like uh struck to me and uh they'd asked like what I was doing and I said that I'd just gone to Amsterdam they'd ask me if I'd gone to the cafes and I was like yeah of course I went to the cafes who goes to Amsterdam and doesn't go to the cafes and they'd asked me if I'd bought any hat like anything back with me and I was like of course not don't be silly opened my suitcase look for my suitcase close my suitcase and let me go a friend you're joking I know I know and I was just as cool as a cucumber like really just like yeah it's called as a cucumber so then that just gave me the confidence and uh to do it again but it was horrible when I came back because like I came back so I had this you know fantasy that I was living that you know I was clean now when I was a professional drug Smuggler now and and um got paid my money and I was like that and I'm not gonna take drugs anymore I'm not gonna smoke crack anymore and I got back to Gloucester and the very first thing I did straight away was when and scored yeah and that two grand was gone like within a couple of days wow yeah I completely kidded myself that I'd be all right and then I think I thought that I just like have one as a reward I'd just be like oh I just just as a really cute yeah yeah doesn't that doesn't work like that no it does not wear it like that and how old were you this time yeah and how many times were you going back and forth were there any other countries you were smuggling in from no it's just so I'd gone to Jamaica like I said I didn't do it and then I was just doing runs from Holland and do you remember how many runs you've done in total in Holland a few three maybe oh yeah and then what was the next step for you was there a bigger step to say I can actually earn more money here because it was a dangly carrot someone gave you and said there's another trip you want to go on um well they were prepping me like four bigger trips Holland was just kind of um trial runs really I think maybe to build my confidence app to see like how I handled it so I knew that there were going to be you know that there was a a bigger plan and again I carried on with this same disillusion in my mind you know do you know what the definition of insanity is stored It's when um you keep doing the same things over again but you expect a different results and that's whereby that's exactly where I was you know I was insane you know doing these same things but thinking that you know when I came back this time you know I I wouldn't you know go in school I wouldn't you know and I was just just kept doing the same thing over and over again the age of 20 though yeah yeah that was ballsy yeah steel mate still yeah geez and then what was the what was what was that next step then so the next step then was Venezuela um and yeah I was Keen as well because I was getting bored with Holland as well too easy yeah wow as you know I'd been there a couple of times I was getting a bit nervous about starting to think that I didn't want Customs to clock me yeah you know I was thinking oh you know if they start to recognize me then maybe that's a you know a different I just didn't feel confident that's when Robert's the Holland one just there did you ever think about consequences like if you did get nicked you did get clobbered what you would say and how much how much percentage you would get didn't even cross my mind not one bit no not even how much sentence I'm gonna get for this nothing and not even what excuse would be no it didn't even I said because like I said these people that I was around you know that had been doing it you know and I was staying with them for a bit and they just spent the whole time telling me that it'll be okay and you do this and you do that and we've been doing this for years and yeah it didn't even cross my mind for a second that there was going to be any other outcome apart from me getting through with the with the drugs so if you've got a tug and they would have seen half a million pounds worth of cocaine wrapped around you yeah what would you have said I don't know it was personal yeah I don't know and if they would have said right you're going to get 15 20 you're going to 20 plus years for this or tell us who is involved do you know what you'd have done I probably would have took the 20 years yeah I had really I was which is also like stupid because these people wouldn't you know didn't give there well I did you know because when I was in Venezuela I got off you know to tell us and then I was like no no no and then when I was there thinking up you're right I'll get looked after and uh you just get abandoned tell us that Journey about Venezuela so I've got asked for one to do Venezuela and it all was going wrong from the very beginning like all the signs were there to like not do it and I had my daughter you know I was told to bring my daughter with me so you took your daughter to Venezuela yeah yeah she was three years old on a on a cocaine drug smuggle yeah yeah because I was told like um I was told that everyone was in on air I was told that the Guardia in the airport were in on it and that all the Customs were in on it and that it was like part of the deal that that's how I would get away with it I was so naive I was so stupid and some people would say like oh I don't care how naive and how stupid I would never have you know taken my daughter but you know you didn't live my life so you didn't know where I was in my head so it can be really easy for people to judge and I'm not there's no excuse for it you know it's it's not okay it's Madness but that's what happened you know that's where I was um how old was she at the time three years old she's three years old yeah so you flew from where to where I flew from Amsterdam to Margarita but like I missed the first flight I had my boss with me he'd come with me to Holland and we missed the first well he wasn't coming with me on the plane but he was coming with me to the airport and we missed the first flight we got there like too late so there's sign number one isn't it yeah like don't do that it says the first time ignored um then went back to the UK rearranged the flight was at the airport again and like I had the strangest feeling come over me Dodge like I know what it is now it's called Instinct you know yeah it's all about you yeah and I but I just didn't understand then how to interpret you know I didn't know what Instinct was I didn't understand how to interpret those feelings um but it was just like the universe was just absolutely like screaming at me you know don't do this um and I had my boss with me and I said to him that I had I was like I got the funniest you know feeling um and he actually said to me like don't do it like he didn't try and push me forwards he said don't do it but I wanted to impress him yeah you know because I wanted the next job and you know I wanted to be this successful um drug smoke there um so I pushed that feeling to one side you know because I wanted to be like you know and again there's balls of steel you know I didn't want him to think that I was a chicken yeah and I wouldn't get any more jobs it's just as I'm talking about it I like I just know it just sounds so ridiculous but like just shows the mindset yeah you know I was like young and naive just showing the mindset so you missed that flight from the dam to Margarita first one okay second one got the second one same day no no like um maybe a week later like maybe even less than a week later I think yeah got the next one and it just it just wasn't right like from the beginning none of it was right I landed at Margarita and there was no one there like I expected you know there's three people to be waiting for me I was going to get picked up and I just like there's no one here what do I do where do I go you know I was quite lost and you know and scared really as well you know I'm confused so I phoned up my my boss and he was confused that there was no one there you know to greet me and then told me where to go I can't remember if I got like a coach or if I got a taxi I think I might have got a taxi I think he told so there was no mobile phone no there was no one to meet you there you've got your daughter yeah did you have a pound note in your pocket to get into the hotel do you know who you're staying did you know nothing yeah nothing I was just stood like in the middle of a margarita airport not having a clue like what were you told I've told that there was this guy going to be there waiting for him and you know he's the guy who the guy's name his name was that no and I didn't know anything about him so you just flew out there yeah got off the plane yeah went through customs yeah they're looking around for someone yeah and then like eventually like everybody that had gone on the plate like were gone and there was like nobody there how much money do you have in your pocket oh flipping neck I can't remember if I don't even know I don't even know if I had any money in my pocket so I just I don't know maybe end of a quid or something if if that because I was told that I didn't you know I didn't need it yeah everything was going to be sorted yeah yeah yeah I was staying in there had um all-inclusive hotel so you know so I didn't need I didn't think that I needed any money what did you do that night when no one was around um well I got um I phoned the guy I think I might borrowed some money off someone or I made a phone call and then um to get a taxi to the hotel he gave me the address of the hotel anyway well I think I might have got a coach I can't remember when I got to the hotel and then I was told like he told me when I took and why she told me to just go to my to my room to my Charlene and my Charlie there was a there was a phone so I got there and I got a phone call when I was in the Chalet I got a phone call from the Venezuelan contact telling me to stay there not to go out anywhere and that he'd come and visit me the next day and uh I was pissed off man I was like quite put out yeah you know because I thought as well I've come to do a job for you and this is how you treat me so I wasn't um I wasn't happy and then the next day um I thought I'm not waiting here would you know it's boiling hot yeah you know there's a swimming pool just there I've got a three-year-old and you want me to just sit in this Chalet like twiddling my thumbs until you wanna to you to site because you know I waited a bit and I just I don't know I forget there's like you can he'll find me yeah you know so then I just went out with my daughter and like hung out by the pool and um just just like hang out in the hotel and then I think he eventually turned up I did ring or we turn up by evening or something and then took me out the next day um and again just didn't treat me like how I expected to be treated like I'd been treated in in Holland you know so I think it was a total setup from the beginning Dodge you know so this is why this guy was not invested in me you know because he knew that I was going to get nicked at the airport like I was a total decoy like I didn't obviously I didn't know any of this at the time but when I look back on it now and you know when I was in prison and I looked back when it all and everything it was like it was quite obvious really how much cocaine what was the deal were you meant to bring cocaine from Venezuela straight back to Amsterdam and yeah and then to London or was it straight to London no I was taking it back to Amsterdam and then I wasn't sure what was going to happen from there and how much cocaine were you meant to take from Venezuela to Amsterdam do you know it's like five kilos again wrapped around you no in a suitcase yeah in my suitcase this time and that was dodgy as well because I got the suitcase I went the day before I was leaving and put the suitcase up and it just it stank of glue like so bad you know just freshly obviously freshly like glued it I mean it looked very professional you know so you opened it and you look and it wasn't it wasn't just there yeah no in the suitcase it was hidden in a secret compartment but it just reeked of glue and um I mentioned it to the guys I was like this they're like they're gonna smell this you know and he was like no no no no it's all fine you know it's you're just being paranoid and again I just ignored all all those warning signs and I had to open like all night long I was like had it open trying to like air it I you know trying to get rid of this so he gave you he come and met you at the Chalet with the suitcase no he took me out to get the suitcase he took me out to get the suitcase brought you back to the Chalet and then you had to make your own way from that Chalet to the airport the following day yeah there was a coach yeah there was a coach that went from the airport like to there up from the hotel to that what was going through your head that night with you obviously clued up at this point you've got a gut instinct that doesn't feel right from the coming from the damn missing you're playing and Venezuela not getting treated well to get in some fellow who doesn't really care about you to giving you a suitcase that stinks of glue which all just been glued up to work the coke inside and all the signs are there all the signs that we're always going for your mind that evening before you're about to jump on a plane the next day I was very nice to eating about ditching it yeah I did contemplate like not taking a suitcase or like just like ditching the staff and then and I didn't you know because I just thought that I was just being again like I said you know there's this thing about consequences tax and you know I just and again I've been reassured that everything was going to be okay so I just pushed all of those feelings I just pushed them all away you know and just thought you're being silly Natalie you're being paranoid you know just get through this it'll all be fine and just you know just chose to ignore all of those feelings and and just trying to push it all to one side so we're looking at roughly about quarter million pounds worth of cocaine in this suitcase yeah yeah how much are you getting paid for it four grand four grand again yeah tell me the moment the next day when you woke up what time was the flight the next day I was in the morning yeah I think we have to leave the hotel at like 11 o'clock or something and even on the coach there was like it was weird there was this guy that had come on the coach and he'd lost his passport and he was just like he had the attention of everybody on the coach you know telling this story or whatever and I just had like the strangest feeling that something wasn't right something was amiss with him and that it was something to do with me yeah and I don't know why you know and to this day I never know but I kind of like feel now that I was a decoy and he was the real one that was going through with it because I don't know there was just something that was just like just seemed and that was what went through my head and that's a random thing to go through her head from like why would that go through my head and this is the first time you've ever felt something like this yeah yeah go show the power of the gut right yeah so tell me when you get to the airport what were your movements from the airport going through customs of your little and hmm so when I went through the like bag exchange to give my suitcase like it was like a [ __ ] in a brick as I handed the the suitcase over to the you know the baggage thing on those things are you checking in yeah handed your suitcase yeah like and it goes on that conveyor it doesn't actually stamped you you and your daughter walked through yeah like but I was thinking I was thinking she's gonna like stop me in a minute because of this smell yeah I was like she must be able to smell it and I was like I don't know it's fine not to you know they've told you everyone's in on it it doesn't matter if she can smell it yeah you know everybody's been paid off so I got through and then got through to the departure Lanes and I'm sat down with my daughter and I see these two Guardia coming in like next and next to the table that I'm on the two two old build two places yeah so on the next Table to where I am there's a family site there like a husband a wife and I think they've got a kid or maybe two kids and I watched these National Guards coming in um and they looked like they were on a mission you know and they went up to the table right next to me and um obviously asked to see their passports it was all in Spanish and I could see the family pulling out the passports and I just knew that it was me they were looking for I knew that that was not the people and that it was me they showed them the passports and then they come over to my table um and asked me to show them they were like passport passport so I showed them my passport and then they wanted me to go with them and my stomach's like really going now but I'm just trying to saying to myself part of the plan like you know because I was told yeah no I was told that the guardian on it you know don't worry they might take you to one side you know so I just like even though it felt wrong I was just kind of saying to myself it's okay it's all part of the plan you know don't panic um and by that point you're kind of like on a roller coaster anyway you know once those wheels are in motion you know there's kind of no no stopping it so you just kind of like forced along with this kind of like flow you know that maybe you don't even want to go along with but it's all you know you're just the the wheels of emotion it's already happening so then they took me into this room and uh my suitcase was on a table there was a light you know like literally like this light bulb and then just like it's just like such a cold room you know with a table in the middle of this room and my suitcase on the middle of the on the table I don't think I don't I don't know if that's supposed to be there and then it's like it's all part of the plan utterly like it's fine it's fine you know I think you know when you're a kid and maybe you've done something wrong and you think if you close your eyes and like I wish her hard enough you know you're weaker that's that you know until and you learn don't you you know as you grow older you kind of you learn that that's not how things work but when you're a kid you that's what you try doing don't you you know if I go really hard like you know I'll wake up and it'll be the morning again and I won't have done that you know and that's where I was at you know with this kind of mentality just like you know this blind you know belief or I hope that everything was going to be all right and then um yeah they pulled a knife out and when they pulled a knife out I was like yeah this definitely isn't support you know this I can't I just couldn't Kid myself any longer you know that uh this is all right and this is all part of the plan I was like now this isn't this is not part of the plan this is not what's supposed to be happening hmm wow and the knife Blends it in the suitcase and a good idea he's like haha you know he's like he's struck gold you know and I think he'd like even like did a little thing on the on his tongue you know and uh yeah he was uh overjoyed that was it for them for me I just like but you know what I still thought I still thought that I'd get on my plane yeah I still I was just like again thinking right okay this has gone horribly wrong I hope they hurry up and like deal with this so that I was like I was watching the time you know thinking about like what time the the plane was supposed to go and I just thinking that I I thought I'd just get like told off you know a little sap on the wrist or whatever get processed really quickly and that I'd be on the you know on the plane still and then what happened there because normally they get all really excited and take photos all around with a thumbs up where were you taking what was happening with you what happened your daughter yeah so they um they let me speak so they they used um a woman from the airline to come in and Translate because this was all in Spanish and she told me instantly she was like you're going to go to jail for 10 years and like straight away as soon as she came in and they were like she was translating and when they asked me they said was there somebody waiting you know to tell them was there somebody waiting at there at the other end for me and you know I was like no no no there's nobody waiting um I can't really remember I think I can't really remember the questions that they that they asked Dodge it's all of it you know like and go just in a state of of shock and then they put me on the phone to my Embassy wow to it I spoke to the concert um and he told me the same thing as uh the woman from the airline he was like yeah you're [ __ ] you're gonna you'll go to jail for ten years this is what's going to happen you know you're going to get taken to the police station uh it's horrendous in the police station you know the the circumstances the conditions uh horrendous you're gonna spend I don't know however long there he said and then you'll get taken to the prison the prisoners is horrendous as well and he said and you'll get a sentence you'll get sentenced to 10 years and there's nothing we can do about it there's no extradition and you know there's girls there that have been there five years already and I I don't know I think I still just thought that everyone was just trying to fighting me yeah you know I couldn't kind of comprehend really the the seriousness of the of the situation it was just it was too much to you can't even if someone's telling you all of that anyway it's just it's just too much for for the brain to process really and then where was your daughter at this time she was still with me she was not in your arms yeah what was the point where they had to take your daughter off you um it was the next day so we stayed that night instead of taking me to the police station because I have my door turn they took me to the Guardia station that was next door to the airport so we spent the night there and I was just trying to keep her calm the whole time you know and telling her that it was okay and that this was supposed to be happening and there were some stones in my suitcase that weren't supposed to be in there and you know just trying to um Not freak her out really um and she just went along with everything I've told of course because she was three years old she's gonna believe you know and I'm not freaking out in front of her or anything so then we stayed the night in the Guardia station next to the prison and then the next day they took me like as always like on tour of the island like taking me to all these different places there was one place where I had to go and they took um like samples like drug sample like swabs and stuff of um my fingers and then um they took me somewhere else where they had the suitcase again and they'd like laid the suitcase out they'd taken all the bricks out of it and they were taking loads of photos of that and then they took me and I was really ill as well I remember because I've been drinking the water and I was just like so clumped up I was like physically just in so much pain and so much Agony um and then they took me to the courts and then when I was in the courts um that's where they took the keys off Me Like Somebody came in and said that I was gonna let them Nikita was going to be taken off me there I was going to go to a police station and that um Nikita was going to be put in a orphanage whilst Arrangements were made with the British Embassy for her to go back to um the UK oh my God yeah my God Charlie yeah wow just listen to this can you remember that moment when they actually took a Nikita of your hands yeah I think yeah um I had like a mixture of feelings because I was kind of relieved that she wasn't going to be part of this anymore you know like um and it's just the worst feeling in the world to know how much you've failed as a mother you know like you you can't fail really much more than than that so to to kind of acknowledge that and accept that and and realize you know how stupid and how naive and you know the risks that you know not that I put myself out but that what I've done to my daughter you know there's I there's just there's there's no worse pain in the world really and they're even worse is not knowing where she's going yeah it's like hold on a minute I'm in Venezuela I don't speak the language yeah where's Nikita going yeah I've been taking up my arms yeah like how do you know where she's going yeah yeah well they said she was going to I think I thought it was going to be like a foster home um of like English-speaking people and that's just not what happened like at all um because I saw her like before they flew her back um I got reunited with her for a little bit I'd been in the police station for months oh no was it months my battery I think I think it's a little bit less than that and Arrangements have been made for Nikita to go back to the UK and I got taken to court from the police station I didn't know it was to see Nikita and I got there and the judge strike I didn't go in the sales or anything I was put in a in a office room and a judge came and told me that the Nikita was going to be going the next day that I wasn't going to see her for 10 years and that the judge had ordered for me to go to the courts that day and ordered for Nikita to be brought there so that I could see my daughter because it was going to be like the last time that I was going to see her for 10 years were you allowed to hold her yeah yeah yeah we um how long we've got maybe like an hour together I think yeah it was heartbreaking um it just broke me like when as soon as she walked through the door it just completely broke me because her just her face you know she was terrified didn't have a clue what she'd been in this orphanage and she couldn't um obviously she couldn't speak Spanish and nobody in Spanish nobody there could speak English and so she was telling me that how you know she'd been like having accidents like Westing herself and stuff like that because she'd been telling people that she needed the toilet and nobody understood what she was saying so like just hearing her say these things it just like yeah just completely and then I've got to try and be strong you know why she's saying that I can't just suddenly like burst into tears and start crying or whatever because that's not just going to make it 10 times worse for her so I just had to like try and like hold all this pain in and and um you know just reassure her that everything was going to be all right how do you know she was going back to the right people in the UK oh she was because she was going with a friend of mine I think I'd arranged I think I'd been able to speak to my friend or um I'd ask the embassy to contact my friend actually and and said like you know please maybe ask my friend if she can look after her so the embassy told me that they'd spoken to um my friend Eve and that had all been arranged and that Eve was gonna look after her which is just like a massive relief you know it's like okay well at least that's yeah she's safe yeah yeah so then what for you what was the next movements for you obviously you're at a in an office space at the moment it seems like from is the point where you had to go to court and said right you have now officially got 10 years so I got back to the police station then and I can't remember like I think I was in the police station Fair about three months did you ever think about escaping or was it impossible in the police station it was impossible like yeah there's just uh yeah it's impossible um it was so Grim in there it was like got this Maureen there's like 20 women in there like just like one light bulb it's so hot you know there's like they've got a little hole in the corner of the room there's like this little hole and there's a bucket and then you're piss in the bucket and you pull the back and there's no curtain or anything like that and if you need a poo then you put a bin then you put like a carrier bag in the bucket and do a put in a room you know like with no partition or anything of all these women um yeah it's Grim you know it's the walls are wet from sweat and it's dripping off the ceiling and yeah it's disgusting when were you taken to the prison um was there a point you're going right you've now been sentence you are now going into no I didn't get I think I went to the prison I got to prison first before I got sentenced so I'd been in the police station for a while like three months and then I got transferred to the prison um till whilst I was waiting to be sentenced but like I knew I was going to by this point you know it had been made really clear to me and thought I was going to get sentenced like I knew what the process would go and going to be I had a consulate and he'd come and see me a couple of times and I'd spoken to the Embassy on the phone and you know and it was just repeated to me over and over and over again this is what's going to happen you know you'll go to the prison and you'll go to court you'll get sentenced to 10 years and there's nothing like it was it was it was it in Venezuela if you get 10 you'll do five the same no no you do 10 you've got to do 10 yeah yeah okay yeah 10 years 10 years over there what was the name of the prison and what was that feeling like what was the moment like can you explain to me what it was like when you walked into that prison yeah so it's San Antonio it's San Antonio prison in Margarita um it was kind of a relief to get there because I'd been told what it was like like the consulate told me what it was like and prisoners in the police station like Spanish prisoners there had told me what it was like and just anything sounded better than where I was you know I was told that it was all very open plan that it was mixed prison there was men and women there it was a it was a mixed prison mixed prison yeah yeah it's men and women all integrating with each other I remember there was a girl in the police station Spanish girl and that's used to say to me you're San Antonio you're [ __ ] [ __ ] mucho mucho [ __ ] you [ __ ] it and I thought this can't be this can't be right and the concert at the time you as well told me as well that there was men there as mixed prisoner but I thought there'd be some kind of divide you know but no there's like just at night time was the only time that you were separated yeah it was all integrated and mixed together so it would explain to me the moment when you got out cuffed up walking into that prison for the first time a young 20 odd year old girl 21 from Gloucester in England going into Venezuelan prison not speaking the language not having a clue what was going on when I got there and as we go in there there's all these men patrolling the roof and uh I was just I was shocked at the state of them you know they're like wearing they just look ref you know like bare chested you know with their guns they've got big shotguns and they're like patrolling the roof and I was surprised that I just didn't understand why they didn't have to wear uniform I thought God that's strange maybe it's because it's too hot or whatever and then I find out afterwards that they weren't God they were prisoners prisoners with prisoners shotguns with shotguns patrolling the roof of the prison yeah because the prison was divided um so you had the women's bit and then you had two separate men's side because these their gangs you know this gang warfare that's coming in from the streets so you can't have ordered these men like interacting with each other because I'll just kill each other because of you know beef that they've got with each other from the street so they're divided but even though they're divided they still trying to kill each other so the you have like the one side like patrolling like the roof to make sure that none of the guys on the other side are like trying to get over to their side and the guys on the other side have built bunkers as well like these little bunkers and these little Stone hats like that with these little slips through like that and they used to man those to make sure that the guys on that side weren't going over like to kill them um but when it kicked off like it would just it would be crazy like it just it was like a war zone in there sometimes like the Guardia wouldn't even come in sometimes like where there was just so much shooting so it was the was the Guardia the police are just letting them get on with whatever look off the prisons if it kicks off when they're going to get involved you can do anything you want in there except get out it's like a villa it's a self-sufficient Village like contained within the perimeter of the walls there's like a restaurant there restaurants yeah just someone cooking a bit of no no restaurants they've built restaurants like so the men like the the men they've got like a gang leader now if he's a gang leader you know he get you know because they're all selling drugs in there so everything you can get every drug in there is usually Coke and quite as crack really yeah um I think it was called bazooka it's called over there because it's like just the process before it's like refined as crap so and then the the gang leader you know if he wants to stay as gang leader and not have like Mutiny amongst the ranks and get killed in his sleep or killed by his own people then he his part of his role is to provide for the prisoners so he'll like with the drugs that are being sold he invests that money into the prison right so there's workshops with like great big swords you know these great big discs with the jagged claws on them and if there's a piece of Machinery that breaks down that's down to him you know really to make sure there's a budget there yeah because the director of the prison he spends all the money you know any money that comes in for the prison you know the director spends on his new car or you know so the prisoners are dealing crack cocaine to generate more money so they can have better facilities for themselves yeah those Bonkers yeah yeah it's really like it's quite self-sufficient you know yeah okay what what was what was going through your mind actually like you go back to that woman a minute ago [ __ ] [ __ ] what were you thinking think were you thinking the worst thing could happen here or were you just not caring um when she used to say that to me before I got there I thought that they were trying to I thought they were winding me out okay you know I thought they were just um kind of taking the Mickey out of me yeah you know I thought they were thinking oh look you know as the the gullible English girl you know we'll wind her up and tell her this and tell her that so when I got there and saw that like why this is this is real um it was hard to comprehend really Dodge you know it was just but when you're thrown in the middle of something you know you you have you know it just it is what it is you know and you're just like I think I like the first night I woke up in the morning and I was just like this can't be real but it but it is real you know so as as time goes on you just adjust to it you know and then it just becomes your new normal it just becomes your your reality did you get bullied in there not um not there um and there was a couple of incidents where some girls like tried it on but then I was at a point where I didn't really value my life you know so um I fought back and did all right so but I think if I'd have had value on my life then because they were trying to rob me yeah so I think if I'd have had value on my life I kind of would have been like yeah like you know take the stuff but I think because I just want it to be dead you know and you've got a knife to your throat and it's like would you know what and can do me a favor come on um and then so they just said that I was a crazy gringa and then like left me alone because I thought I was nuts but I wasn't nuts I just like I said you know they're a person that doesn't want to live it's a very dangerous person very dangerous somebody that wants to die is a dangerous person because they don't care about anything and was that your mindset that was totally where I was just like bring it on yeah yeah I wanted them you know I hope wanted them to stab me and kill me did you see a lot of violence in there yeah yeah I swallowed yeah there was um there was a war that went on for three days and with the guys and the Guardia wouldn't come in because it was just so dangerous um and the men like they'd made a big hole like in part the war next to arbit and they were the guys were getting shot and they were bringing the dead bodies through and then arbit was like right by the kind of Courtyard to the reception we'd like wear their um what do you call it the like hospital kind of wing was but the hospital Wing was full it wasn't being manned you know because all the prison guards had locked themselves in behind you know closed doors and the National Guards who were like based on the perimeter just weren't coming in you know because they're just not getting paid enough and they haven't got enough artillery themselves you know compared to 700 men that are shooting at each other and killing each other so then these like the the bodies just piled up because the ambulance wouldn't come in either like so you've got these dead bodies and because everyone's shooting at each other three days it went on for Non-Stop so that ambulance people wouldn't come in couldn't come in either so you just got these like pile of dead bodies just did they leave did the gangs fighting with each other did they leave the women alone was it like women go to the side we're cracking on with this yeah okay yeah yeah yeah totally there was like it was quite um they're quite protective of the women okay because everyone always says oh there must have been loads of rape and things going on like not at all okay the men were really you know protective and it was just even if a man had even thought of doing something like that he'd get killed yeah you know if it came out that somebody so there was respect in there yeah totally okay yeah with the whole was the whole prison in there built on respect yeah there was a hierarchy yeah okay yeah yeah totally there was a hierarchy in there with like the commander and the lieutenant and the soldiers and the foot soldiers okay how many people in total were in the prison male and female probably about 800. and the prison size was maybe for 800 or for Less so probably indefinitely not no okay no no no definitely not everyone's like on top of each other and where were you sleeping you sleeping in a room with a load of other girls yeah yeah it's just a bit was it just a floor I started off on the floor um because you're not provided with any furniture or anything um so you have to work your way up the ranks really or have the money to buy you know beds and mattresses or you know wait for someone to go and donate you one or get a boyfriend and you know get your boyfriend to buy you one yeah did you get did you get a boyfriend in prison yeah yeah um after how long I've been in there so when I first got there I'm kind of like there was an English guy and it just I don't know I just wasn't really um into it but it was funny I also get love letters and food sent to me all the time like they try and woo you with food over there you see because you don't get food from the prison you know there's no meals no canteen there's no nothing no there's no like meals like cooked meals provided by the prison so you know I said you've got to really like fend for yourself or you know or buy food or so um I'd get these love letters I like delivered to me at the gate from these guys that I didn't even I didn't even know who they were you know like just declaring you know their undying love for me you know with a with a burger and chips or a beef steak or something you know um other prisoners yeah yeah okay yeah um but then towards the end so I moved from there and I moved to a prison that was near the Colombian border and when I was there I got into a relationship with the prison guard did you yeah we fell in love with each other rip proper love Yeah proper love yeah real love how long was you in that prison for till you met the prison guard and fall in love so I'd been in there let me think that I was effort so I'd probably been there about nine months I think and what year are we talking roughly here two thousand and three so you've been there for nine months yeah you met how did you make the guard to fall in love he he was new he'd been sent there him and his friend had been sent there they'd been working in another prison and they'd been caught bringing weed in to the other prison so it was like punishment they got sent to work in this prison and which was like miles away from like their home and stuff like that um so um he just like called my attention a little bit I thought he was um attractive yeah um so and he just came like you know we'd go down and do aerobics you know again this is another mixed prison you know men and women so we've got go down and do class or go into aerobics or you know he'd be just like walking around or whatever um and so I don't know we just started making eye contact and like flirting a little bit and could you speak English no no okay no but I can speak Spanish by this point okay yeah because I've been in jail like two years now yeah two and a half years so my Spanish is you know getting there and I had a mobile phone so I gave him my phone number and then he just started ringing me like every night and texting me all the time and that was quite nice wasn't it yeah after all that yeah yeah yeah someone someone showing you a bit of attention love yeah yeah it was a bit like I wasn't sure at first if it was just something for him to pass the time yeah you know because he would work there like two weeks on and two weeks off you know so at first I thought okay is this you know am I just like a a toy for him to play with whilst he's here to to make you know the two weeks yeah like easier fair for him when you're in that prison again the second person the second prison nicer than the first one well there was another prison in between that so that was the third prison there was another prison in between that but I wasn't in it for very long called enough in Caracas which was just a girls prison which was brilliant but I was like well as prisons go yeah yeah it wasn't like a five-star hotel or anything yeah you know compared to what I'd come for you know um how long were you in the girls prison for um I don't know six months does that feel safer in there yeah 100 yeah yeah definitely and there was a lot of structure there as well there were workshops you could earn money there was canteen they were tires you know there was um education tires um yeah workshops okay you know like sewing workshops and they made the flags there for Venezuela that's where the flags were made yeah um and I remember I remember oh God we used to have to sing the Venezuelan national anthem and I hated it like every day we'd have to go with after liner and we'd have to like put our hand on our hearts and sing This and like one of the sentences in there something was like glory be to the country and I was like are you kidding me with this you know but if you didn't sing it yeah you got into into trouble was there any point in prison where the guards the real gods are getting paid about to come in and and get everyone on the floor or get everyone down or really really take control yeah yeah like so in um after that what you know I said about that three days in your first prison yeah after that three-day War like it's um the the Army like there pissed off so the Army come in yeah then that's what's the National Guard okay yeah yeah they were like pissed off because it's kind of like uh it's kind of highlighted that they haven't really got any control and they don't appreciate that like at all so um like when the when the war was like over and they came in and they got all the men and there's like this massive Courtyard like tarmac Courtyard and they made all the guys they made them all lie down you know and it's boiling hot over there oh you know you're 45.50 yeah you know it's like it's right on this 100 degrees really close to the equator you know and they've made them like light and they've got under guards they've got these big swords as well but they're not pointed you know them um but batons yeah they're rained you know and um so they've got them in and they've just got them lying down from like nine o'clocks in the mornings or like eight o'clock in the evening yeah and they'd walk around you know when they've got these buttons and you know when anyone's trying to move you know the guys it's just like yeah beating them with the buttons yeah just to like assert their like Authority you know and again they did it all the time you know when like um prisoners male prisoners like misbehave themselves they'd like line them up against the wall you know and get them to drop their shorts and you know like beat them on their on their bums and stuff with these with these swords so in your third prison here you've fallen in love what was his name Jose Jose local lead yeah yeah Jose yeah so you fall in love with him was there any point in your mind in that third prison going I've done what three years now roughly you're thinking I need to escape yeah yeah I totally started um considering it like definitely especially when I find out how close it was to the Colombian border right you know because you know how close was it three four hours away okay yeah I mean everybody that's in prison fantasizes about escaping Dodge you know everybody anybody you know it goes through it but you know it's whether you can or can't um so yeah I totally started to like consider it um and I had a business there I'd set up a shop of my own and everything and um there were some girls like malandres that had been transferred in which is like um troublemakers and they were going around and they were robbing people um one of them got that got killed got shot in the back of the head by another prisoner like in the female Courtyard and you know it's definitely it was like Steph was kicking off within the women's bit which is quite rare you know the violence and the guns and whatever you know it's usually quite male orientated it's not often that while it's not it's the first time ever that apparently a girl had been killed and shot and I knew that things were getting dangerous because I had this shop you know and I'm like they're gonna and I was being told that they were gonna come for me you know they were gonna rob you know try and like Rob the shop and I did value my life at this point you know um so I applied for my day releases I was like just try and and I had I had bars put on my shop like bought metal bars welded because I knew what they were gonna do I was like they're gonna come and they're just going to jump over you know I can be locked in but they're just gonna jump through the hutch so I had the guys come and like wow these metal bars on like rehab so that they couldn't get through and then um I applied for my day releases um and I'm with Jose while this is going on and um I'm seeing him you know I'm going out I'm getting my day releases you know I'm he's getting as much time working outside of the prison getting Hospital you know shifts to like where he's supposed to be guarding people at the hospital he's totally not he's gone there you know giving them some money some cigarettes some food or whatever and then we've gone out for the day or you know spent the weekend day or um so you know it just came like a real possibility you know I was thinking because I was going out you know I thought I mean you know maybe this could it could really happen um so yes we started to to plan a route and I was thinking about my daughter as well the whole time you know I was thinking you know I want to see my daughter you know I've got my daughter because if if I hadn't had my daughter I'd have just stayed there and and done my sentence so you would have stayed there you would have stayed okay yeah yeah I could have stayed there with Jose um but I just like thought how how dare I you know how dare I yeah you know and how dare I be happy um and hide how my duty is to go back and to to see my daughter um and if there's a possibility to do it without having to wait another five years and yeah let's do it so we started to plan this this route um and I was told that I was going to lose my day release because I was proper taking the piss yeah like I was out for weeks at a time you're supposed to go out in the morning and come back in the evening and I was going out and coming back two weeks later with like doctors notes Jose was friends with the director of the prison so the diary we took the director right it was Carnival and yeah it was Carnival and we met the director like I went out in the morning we met the director for Carnival like just got him absolutely you know completely drank and then it was time for me to like catch my best back to go back and Jose said to him like oh can't you phone the prison up and like give Natalie permission to stay out because he got him like right last step and I think we had to like buy him a bottle of brandy or something so then he phoned up the prison and like gave me permission to like stay out for like three four five days so I was doing this all the time you know and um it got and I was supposed to be working now I was supposed to be working as hairdressers I don't think I'd even stepped foot in the hairdressers you know and then like people got wind end of it and I was paying the judges off like I kept paying them off so that I could you know so they wouldn't take my benefit off me but then it got to the point where you know it was like you can't yeah there's only so far you can you can push it too and it got to the point where it was like and we got a phone call I think we were right and I got a phone call saying they're gonna take uh your benefit off you take your day release yeah you're gonna take it away what's the point where you say right now I've got to make the move that was it then I remember the date it were I don't remember the exact date but it was July I think okay July 2005. yeah and this is your time to get away yeah it was like right you gotta could we we were planning it but we hadn't quite finished like sorting everything out you know really we wanted I was going to do it like in another two weeks but it was like nah you got to do it no because in two weeks you're not gonna have day release you know and so basically you kept everyone buttered up bugging everyone kept them all inside they were gonna they've given you the tug now to hold on mate we're going to get you back in because you're taking the Mickey yeah and then you went right I'm off yeah tell me were you thinking just get me over the board and I'm away yeah yeah totally so um do you have to get a passport to go over the Border yeah yeah well I smuggled myself across the border um so I got into Colombia like completely illegally but I got a passport I'd already got a passport because I'd been preparing because I need a passport to get out of South America and back to Europe so um I got the password off my precious Embassy so the British Embassy gave you a passport to get out of the country well or to help you get out of the country with a kind of a wink they they didn't only know I didn't tell them that I was going to use it to get it I just said that I was you know I needed ID to to get a job you know so I'm imagining that they probably suspected you know because I suppose what would they do if they had a passport and they were right you know so so what did you so what did you do jump on a coach jump in a car cab what did you do to get to the Border Dodge man it went so badly wrong like every everything was planned we had this root plant because they have um did you have the gut feeling this time or not no we didn't care no no oh yeah I didn't care you know and it was just like but the elements were not on our side so like we had it all planned out I was going to leave in the morning Jose was going to leave you know a little bit afterwards and then we were going to meet at ahido bus station which is like the kind of last stop before you cross the border but they've got checks everywhere in Venezuela like roadblocks you know all the time and you get stopped and you have to show your idea or whatever now part of my conditions were that I'm not Allied out of Medi that area you know so I can't really go through any of these roadblocks and it's a big risk you know because you've got the the National Guard go idea we're like one minute they're based in the prison for three months then they're based at the airport for three months then they're based on the Block so there's a very high chance they'll clock that I'd be recognized I hang on a minute you're supposed to be there not here so we had this route planned where we had like Guardia that we knew were working on the the stops and that they were paid off and that we could get through like most of them so the day came and um there'd been torrential rain that night and and there'd been landslides um and rivers that had burst their banks in like my whole route was completely blocked like there was and there was no turning back because I was having my benefit taken off me the next day yeah it was like now or never if I go back to the prison like tomorrow the paperwork comes back and I don't get out so you know we've just got a gopher but it's also if I get recognized you know probably going to get a shot or beaten you know but it was just like you just gotta just keep going forward so had like this one room and the best couldn't get through him because the had been landslides in the mountains you know so the bus couldn't get through that way so then I got a taxi so I just went completely off yeah you know off course and after it's forgot a taxi and the taxi went a different way got so far and then the taxi couldn't get through you know again because like I don't know Road slide or the landslide or Riverhead burst explain or whatever taxi couldn't get through so then I've just got like one option left now which is another bus that was going a different way so I got on this other bus and then we get to like this kind of Riverbank and it's it's you know the it's bursts now and everybody's being most people are being turned away like the Guardia let's just Guardia everywhere as well you know it's like this is a national crisis you know it's it's just an absolute disaster so there's just Guardia everywhere you know and I'm just on this bus like this just like trying to hide you know as we're going past them or looking in my bag or something and then we get to this other bit in the rivers bursts it's bank and some vehicles are getting through but most vehicles are being turned around you know and there's like the Guardia like you know waving them through or turning them around and you can see the four by fours like getting through and I'm watching and I'm looking and I can see the the kind of path that the 4x4 is taken to like Meander through this River and then get to the other side of it and then all the little cars are like being turned around and told to go back and I can see like the best driver contemplating and I can see that he's just not keen at all I went and begged him like I went up to the to the bus driver and I was like please like look you can do this like look how big your wheels are you know there's there's only a little bit smaller than the than the four by fours and look in the four by fours going that way and I was like almost in tears you know because this was just like this was my last chance you know yeah this is literally my last chance so I was like pleading with him and then like everyone else on the best then kind of like joined in you know like yeah go on you know you can do it so I think like that that energy that was generated you know and the the peer pressure you know like motivated him to have a go and he was going through and the water was coming through a bit like the water was coming like then I was like keep going keep going keep going you know you can do it think you know God and the war was coming in like through the stairs and everything um but he got through to the other side and when he got through just everybody was just like cheering and clapping and you know my heart was just you know like I felt like it was gonna like come out of my chest and I was just like so happy but then I was like worried about Jose because I thought right like because we were supposed to meet hours ago you know and I thought I wonder how he's got there um and if he'd waited or whatever forgot to the the best station and yeah he was there like yeah he just waited uh and his friend saw me first because his colleague of his who was also a prison guard was coming with us like to only as far as Colombia just uh like keep an eye yeah just to keep us company and um so he was coming with us so I bumped into him first and then he took me to Jose and then I remember saying to Jose like I just had you know he'd got there fine like I'd come up against all these obstacles and he was like yeah I just got the best okay how did you do that and I had to go for this um and I asked him like how long he would have waited and I remember him saying that he just would have waited forever said he would have just stayed there like you know until until I got there um yes so then we got a taxi from a heedle to kukuta which is the first Village in Colombia on the other side of the border with a couple of Mexicans we we should we just thought it would be safety in in numbers yeah yeah we thought it would be safety in them so how did you get through the how did you actually get through the Border just in the back seat of the taxi there was no old Bill there yeah yeah but they were just like come through yeah fine yeah yeah so the taxi driver told like we said like the Mexicans said that they were going shopping like because they're on the other side of the board of Colombia it's quite well known that it was a lot cheaper than Venezuela so a lot of people would do like you know just to run for the day and whatever so you know everyone just told the taxi driver that we were just doing like a run there for the day and then I just like pretended to be asleep you know as if that's going to work you know like on my cloak of invisibility is going to go into like come on or something um so then when we got to the Border like I kind of remember hearing like the the border control person like asking for the passports and the taxi drivers saying like oh look they're just going shopping and she can't even speak Spanish this one so anyway and the guy would just like just let us Trail yeah and it was just like everything was in my favor like oh my God you know the gods were shining and there you know their love on me and did you did you know once you're in that border in Colombia they can't come and get you yeah I knew I was safe so when you saw the signs welcome to Columbia what was going for you yesterday like me Jose my friend John harzo and these Mexicans in the car like and the Mexicans didn't know like it was you know in the taxi driver like didn't know and I was like like is this it was almost like I didn't believe it yeah you know it was like this is okay now like we're safe now and it was like yeah we just kind of like we'll kind of like that kept looking at each other like in disbelief really it was like I think I was like have I really just done this if I really just escaped prison and like smuggled myself across a Colombian board area like is this really like what is going on in my life like right now you know it's just uh because you're just so tense up to that point you know and just so focused you know and like right we need to sort this out we need to do this we need to do that then when you do it like the reality of what you've just done is just like holy [ __ ] it's like I've just done that you know so what was the movies there were you thinking about getting me away from the board to get me deep into Colombia or are you thinking get me to an airport and get me in flying into Spain or back into it totally the plan yeah was to get to Bogota and then from Bogota we were flying to Spain why Spain and not London because I didn't know what my legal status yeah so I thought how did you know it was you you're okay in Spain I think because I know Dodge you know they don't communicate with each other so I just you know I just wasn't sure I thought if I went back to the UK I thought there'd be issues obviously um but in Spain you know I'm not nobody knows who I am in Spain yeah no at all um so I went to Bogota went to Bogota and we got arrested in the airport um because they suspected us of drug smuggling your joke no I know how I want it okay I know right yeah story goes goes on yeah yeah because so I'm with Jose usually you know the prison guard yeah and um so how many days after we come for the board how many days after were you at the airport okay next day and who paid for the flight Jose no I did have enough money yeah well we we both like put our friends okay together and both of you booked a flight to Spain flying into where Malaga or and no um Madrid okay yeah well we went to we we didn't book the flight until we were in Colombia yeah so we stayed in like kukata the night and then guys ref there yeah you know it's really it's really rough there and then we've got the coach debugger time if you're saying it's rough yeah after coming out of those prisons yeah yeah and then then we went to Bogota and we booked um we went to travel agents and booked the tickets and then I think we stayed a night in Bogota and then we went to the airport the next day I got arrested by immigration because we didn't have the entry stamp on our passports so they wanted to know like how on Earth like we've got into how are you in Colombia yeah how we got into Colombia and what we were doing in Colombia so we kind of had a story throughout ready because I I knew there was going to be an issue you know I suspected that there was going to be some obstacles to overcome with immigration because I thought they'd want to know that so we had this story together we tried to stick to the truth as much as possible and set the obviously Jose was Venezuelan and we said that um we're a boyfriend and girlfriend and that I'd been living in Venezuela and you know we'd been traveling around and that now we were going to go to Europe together and that we'd been in married dad and so that we'd come across that you know that border um and that we just hadn't had our passport stamps and they were like well you know were you you can't just not get your passport stamp so we just played dumb yeah you know I just like played super dumb like well I didn't know you know we went through and the things were there and they didn't stamp them and they were like well you should have got them stamped I said well I you know I didn't know that and they were like this isn't right this is so you know dodging so they slightly separated us and then they searched like our suitcases then they asked me if I consented to being taken to hospital so they could x-ray me to see if I had any any swallow that yeah yeah so I was like so Keen that I was like like can we go now and I'll pay for the taxi like rather than wait for like a police car or something like that let's let's do it now when I pay for the taxi because if we go now maybe there's even enough time to come back and get there get the flight sale and they were like this is weird you know something is not right here and so then they said right you know what we're not going to take you because this isn't why you know we can see you haven't got drugs and they're like what is going on and by this point you can't kind of like insult their intelligence you know so and we had a bit of money put by to to pay them off because you know like I said we thought they'd be obstacles so I said to them like look okay yes there's there is something but it's not drugs and it's nothing to do with yeah you know we just want to get to Europe you know when it's there's no issues with Colombia there's no totally no drugs you know I can't see what the issue is how much will it cost to sort this problem out and there were two immigration officers and we gave them 200 each result yeah and they let us get on the plane my God flew straight into Madrid and then did you were you like I'm totally free now no one can get me yeah did you still have the fear in Madrid that they could someone think give you the tug um I wasn't really sure what my status was one for a bit I was all right because I knew I'd bought three days grace yeah like so when I'd left 72 hours breathing space okay so to make sure that I get out of South America you know I was pretty sure that once I got to Europe you know I was uh I was on a lot safer territory did you hear anything through Jose about she's escaped did he hear through his mates working at the prison again oh she's escaped listen to this right Dodge so um we were in Spain for nine months we were like trying to make a life for ourselves in in Spain we thought we'd lived there work there and the plan was I'd get Nikita and bring her to Spain but it wasn't working out you know and after nine months we were running out of money um so I said to Jose like we should go maybe we can go back to the UK as I could go back to the UK I can get many you know I'll get i'll get given a house I can get a job that'll put me on benefits whilst I get a job and you know which he struggled to understand like the concept of all of that because it doesn't exist in Venezuela so I was like right let's find out what the what the deal is so I phoned up my British Embassy where I phoned up the foreign and Commonwealth office in London and asked them what my legal status was I was like look what happens if I come back to to UK you know do I have to finish my prison sentence off of the UK are you going to send me back to Venezuela do I have to finish my sentence off there like what's the deal and I didn't even know that I'd Escape jail in Venezuela Venezuela hadn't even told them they were like well what do you mean obviously you can't come back yet Natalie you've still got five years left on your on your sentence I was like you do no don't you that I'm not in prison they were like well what do you mean you're not in prison like where are you I said well don't worry about that yeah yeah don't don't worry about that just you know can you find out what and they were like how long have you not been there when I was like nine months and they were just blown away you know because they thought I was still in prison and the Venezuelan authorities hadn't even notified them that I wasn't there so then um I told them I'd ring them back like a week later and find out like what was going on give them a chance to find out what's going on so I phoned them back a week later they'd liaised with Venezuelan authorities and Venezuela had said that as long as I didn't go back there for the duration of my sentence they weren't interested and because I hadn't committed a crime on English soil yeah England weren't interested so I was totally freeing to go back to England what a result yeah so after that nine months after doing Escaping The Prison in Venezuela flying back living in Spain dying to see your daughter with the fear that if you do go but you could get nicked in England and then as soon as they give you the heads up you straight back to see Nikita yeah straight away and what was it how long was it from the moment you had to hand over Nikita that horrible day to when you actually she was back in your arms again what four and a half years so she went from a three-year-old to seven and a half year old yeah yeah she didn't even recognize me did she not no she didn't know who I was yeah until I told her my name so we got like we got to the UK and as soon as I docked like I think I was in I think it's Plymouth or Portsmouth so I phoned her but nobody in the UK knew either I hadn't told anybody that I was scared yeah nobody so um I phoned Eve who my daughter was living with and um I was like right okay I'm in Plymouth and come to go so can I come and see nakisa and she was like hang on a minute like what do you mean you're in England and you're in Portsmouth and you want to see Nikita I don't understand I was like yeah I did a runner from Venezuela so she just put the phone down on me she yeah yeah she just yeah she put the phone down on me so um especially if I was saying I was like I think she's I don't know if she's very happy with me like the girl would just go to Gloucester and uh it gives her a bit of time to process what's going on so then I got back to Gloucester and my friend had a hairdressing shop there so I just went straight to my friend so I didn't know what to do I had no money by this point I'd literally used the very last little bit of money so I didn't even know where we were going to stay that night you know so I went to my friend's shop and was like right you know and everyone was just like what are you doing here so then I phoned Eve again who'd had time to kind of process process a little bit she said afterwards it was just such a shock you know because she's been looking after my daughter and loved her as if it's her daughter and you know and if there'd been some preparation she could have kind of got a head finder so uh she said well you know you better come around then haven't you I remember her saying that she just didn't know how to town Nikita you know she just just didn't know how to say or you know you know if if there had been a date or something that she could have like pre-order and prepped her yeah so she just didn't know so she just didn't tell her so we went around her house and it was like she lived in a cul-de-sac and as I went around and I had Jose with me and we walked around the corner and I saw these two girls like playing on a like a little trailer and she got closer I was like I'm sure that's I'm sure that's um Nikita and her sisters called a Kiana to call her sister then I was like I'm sure that's the Keystone Kiana and we got closer and uh I was like 99 but she just grown up yeah you know and I was like that is hair so I just started talking to her and I was like okay you know and what are you doing and where do you live and like what's your name and she was like pointing out you know so she pointed to Eve's house and told me her name was Nikita and all that kind of stuff and then I said to her that she shouldn't really be talking to strangers and telling them like what their name is and where she lives and stuff like that and then I asked her if she knew my name said no and I said my name's Natalie and she just stopped like dead in her tracks and just looked at me and she was like are you my mum yeah Jesus yeah like she knew as soon as I said my name she was just like what yes I said yeah I'm your man and then she just went running to Eve's house going ma'am ma'am my mum's here she was like so excited and then what happened there then because you've got Eve Who's looked after for four and a half years was was even that time angry towards you for you taking your daughter on a drugs smuggling mission was the anger around everything because at the moment I'd imagine Eve's four and a half years in looking after a little three-year-old girl who actually would become the kind of mum she probably didn't have at the time what was that relationship like uh brought between me and evil between the kids you and you and she was she was so good I mean they're the mum yeah not the mum the the stepmom I guess yeah yeah she was amazing I mean we'd had the thing like with Eve is she does not mess around with her words at all you know she is very direct and very very blunt you know um and sharp you know she can cut you with her tongue if she wants to but we'd already gone through that you know like when I'd been arrested and I was in Venezuela and I'd spoken to her on the phone you know she we'd already gone through like what the hell are we were you thinking and then she moved on from that because she says what's the point in going out you know it's kind of it's done isn't it and what was the relationship like with your daughter from seven and a half years old to now did you take your daughter back off Eve yeah immediately not immediately um it's like we did quite a good process really like um so I had to get somewhere to live I got somewhere to live and then I got a job and then I got like a nice apartment and then Nikita was just coming round like all the time and then she'd stay the weekend yeah and then just blend it in and then and then Eve just said to me one day she's like isn't it about time your kid come back to live with you so that's how she would how was Nikita today she's 24. and what's your relationship with little Nikita like at the moment uh at the moment it's it's pretty good yeah I've been staying like since I've she came to see me in Spain uh probably about probably about a month ago yeah she came over for 10 days and came to stay with me in Spain and likes when then when I I landed here Tuesday night and I've just been just been staying at her house Natalie this isn't actually an unbelievable story for like mind-blowing like you couldn't write this when you were in it did you know this was a ridiculous ridiculous now you're retelling it to me at the moment do you ever sit there and think this just sounds like it's made up it just sounds nuts yeah yeah like harrowing yeah yeah but like at the time it's like it just becomes your normal yeah you know it just becomes your reality like it it took about a year for me to kind of accept what was what was going on um and the reality of the situation because it's just the conditions and you know and we're conform to think a certain way you know when you you live a certain way you don't understand that there's other ways you know because that's just what you're used to so then when you're exposed to you know these conditions and stuff it's just like mind-blowing but then you just get used to it and then that just becomes a new Norm so when you when you came back to England were you thinking right I'm going to stay on the street and narrow again I don't want to be going to prison or whatever did you have you stayed out of prison for the for these last sort of 10 15 20 years well well that was my intention was to go on the straight and narrow like I'd had enough you know I'd had like before Venezuela um you know I've been getting in trouble um I just you know Savage drug addiction and my mum died while I was in prison in Venezuela um you know so I came back and I just wanted to do the right thing um and have a normal life so I settled down I had Jose I settled down um and I got a job and everything was doing really well you know everything was going well when you came back here we used to be off the crack we offered yeah yeah straight and narrow okay yeah it was totally clean I was off the drugs um and then I was working I had a job when I was working for the clergy like not directly but my role was I was a financial services administrator for the clergy and my role was to process um and invest stocks and shares for you know Bishops and Arch Deacons and then I know right you can't write this did they see your CV before they go here we go right okay so no no no I uh I didn't tell them okay and then I was working for them and my book got published so just as my book was getting published I was doing like a lot of promotion for it um I did some interviews on some radio stations and in the newspapers so before those interviews got aired I went to my employers because I knew it was going to be like on the I think a spread had been done by the the local newspaper um so I knew that I was going to be on the front page of the other papers with this story uh and I was I was quite naive in thinking that the church was all about forgiveness um and encouraging and supporting people in reforming their lives to do better so I thought that everything would be okay so I went to my employers and revealed you know my ex what had happened that I'd actually been in prison in Venezuela and I published a book about it and um there was going to be some media attention around that and I lost my job and because they said that um if art Deacon so and so find out that uh convicted International drug Smuggler was in charge of processing his stocks and shares that um it was not good for the for the company what would you call it um conflict of interests that was it um and I was just really shocked by this dodge you know because I really thought that you know it was before I knew what the church was really like and all the church the churches about many in power yeah you know it's not about anything else and control and but I didn't know that at the time I thought it was about you know forgiveness and love so I lost my job and at the time um I had a mortgage I had the financial responsibilities that came with you know having a a good job um so I tried to get another job and I couldn't because I was in the because I was in the papers for this you know promoting my book um so I used all my favorite so I'm paying my mortgage I'm not earning any money you know by this point I'm living in a really nice area you know I'm I'm in a you know a nice on it I've got a nice house living in a nice area uh my kids go into a nice school that's in this area like it's a life apart from you know the Natalie that before Venezuela you know and I'm really proud of these achievements and I'm really happy like that my daughter is growing up in this safe area you know um so I'm paying my mortgage and just my friends are just depleting you know rapidly all my savings everything it's just going I got to the point where I had to go I thought I'm gonna have to go on benefits which was just so destroying you know because to have to achieve achieved all all this you know and be in this place and then feel like I have to go back on benefits and go back down the job center and back down that route again it just reminded me of this you know 16 year old in you know drug addicted not you know and the places and just I just thought oh God so I was just you know so destroyed but I had no other what you know that was the only option that was left to me so I went down there to the job center and I was told that because I owned my house like not outright but because I had a mortgage I wasn't entitled to any help I had to have my house they said before they could help me I had to have my house repossessed and I had to be homeless like with my daughter and they said and then by and win which case then I could go to them um and they said that they would put me and my daughter up in a bed and breakfast by the way there were no bread and breakfasts in the catchment area that I lived in so they said they'd probably have to send me to Bristol which is just to get from Bristol to my daughter's school you know with those hours and stuff it's just absurd you may as well say we're going to send you to Mars you know and if you can just drop your kid off at school in Gloucester every day and go back in was just mental um and then they said and then on top of that it wouldn't be like they said every night I'd have to phone up and get like probably like a different placement in a different bed and breakfast like every night and then he said and then when I was in that situation then I could go like then they would pay my rent for me like for the bed and breakfast and then I could go like on a waiting list and get social housing but until I was at that point um I wasn't entitled to any financial aid um so I just didn't know what to do you know well I just I didn't I couldn't bear that thought of just I felt like my whole life was just being like ripped away from me and I couldn't bear like put in my daughter through that I thought how is she gonna how is she gonna cope with that how did you explain that I think she was like nine or ten or something at the time um so I made the really bad decision to get involved with Strokes again to like pay my bills so I could pay my mortgage so that I could keep the roof over my head so that I didn't have my house um repossessed and so that I didn't get made homeless with my daughter and after living bed and breakfasts and I thought that I got just Justified it to myself you know that I'm going to do this and pay the bill until the media tensions you know worn down and then I can get a job again and then once I've got a job you know I can stop doing that and pay my bills again but um yeah I got I got caught with what five thousand pills and a couple of ounces of Coke 4 998 pills I don't know where the other two went wow so you would land it back after escaping a Venezuelan prison you learn about for how long were you how long were you in the UK for well before that happened yeah three year three and a half years you're three and a half years back in the UK yeah and then you're like I need to get back at it because I need a quick hit and earn a load of money I didn't know what else to do I mean I knew like it sounds silly saying it but I was so desperate I just didn't know what else did I just did not know what else how did you get caught with 5 000 pills and how many ounces of coke it was two ounces of coke yeah how did you get caught um it was um it was in the house I didn't know that it was in the house like right I was doing it with somebody else and um I thought that they had um they told me that they'd stashed it somewhere that wasn't in the house they told me that they stashed it um and the police were watching you know I lived in a little so this is us so this is after you publish your book so you're promoting your books and you're an international drug Smuggler they've read her on you and then you go serving up again yeah silly isn't it wow yeah I know Jesus yeah and it's like and again it's so easy for people to judge and it's like that point of desperation you know looking back on it now well yes you know it's what did you lose the height you get the heist repossessed and you're homeless and you're on the streets and but just the the thought of that at the time you know because I'd gone through so much you know to get to get there as well and um I didn't Heritage many as well how much like I'd inherited like 30 grand I think and all this many had gone into the house yeah okay you know so I'd inheritance you know I'm a mermaid and I felt like I was achieving something and I'd inherited many from an auntie and it was just to have all that like taken away from me it just felt so unfair you know it was like hang on a minute so all that many that I've inherited and many from the book and all my wages that I've thought I've tried my best to do the right thing no I mean I made a really conscious decision when I had this money you know it was like I was like oh yeah I can go on holiday and blast many and I say that's not the smart thing to do this is using correct cocaine when sir when you were dealing as well no so you were clean yeah and dealing yeah yeah and when you got clobbered were you in the house no I was in the car okay yeah and what sentence they give you uh six years nine months oh Natty yeah my God yeah and how old were you at that time roughly 26. hmm I think I was sorry 30. okay yeah yeah and how old was Nikita when you got caught she was it never and I think she'd been with her for three four years yeah and then she had to get taken away from you again yeah wow yeah she went to live with Eve again wow yeah [ __ ] out yeah naughty isn't it but you know but what was it what was it like for you when you when you when you were in the English Court this time did they give you a bigger sentence because what you had already been done in Venezuela I think so yeah because that sounds quite yeah a lot right yeah yeah yeah I think so and what prison yeah what prisons did they send you to and what was the standard of prison like compared to Venezuela so I went to Eastwood Park and Draco uh there's no comparison you know it's they're just so give an example on a scale of one to ten Venezuelan prison versus a scale of one to ten uh British prison for one it's like a walk yeah well it's a lot more frustrating like English prisons like a definitely a lot more frustrating because there's rules like in Venezuelan prison there's no rules but there's there's horror but there's also that freedom yes there's freedom and then they try and counterbank balance that hover with you know a party or whatever you know um but in English prisons like the Hoops that they make you go through at just so frustrating um and whilst I was in there I was having like my hat you know everything I lost everything anyway you know I lost it all and my house has got the house got to cough me and you know so it was a completely pointless exercise anyway trying to salvage it all because I lost it all anyway but I remember like they build these when you go in they build these kind of um sentence plans they're called and uh it's like all right we want you to do this course or whatever and they wanted me to do this like many coursing and I was like and I was like are you actually joking you know I've just been turning over how many thousands a week and I've got a mortgage and I've got this and you want me to do like this basic you know money management course like I was like I'm not doing it you can like go could you Rebel in the British prisons yeah totally you did okay listen I've done yeah five years of Venezuela don't tell me what prison yeah okay yeah yeah yeah totally and like I said just the frustration of it of like trying to get me to do these like stupid courses like I understand some people they struggle with these things and like okay you need some help whatever but you know I think I said to the governor I was like listen I would earn more money than yeah than you do and I've got a house and a mortgage and this I don't need to learn what two plus two is did Nikita come and visit you in the English prisons did to begin with yeah how old was she at that time like 11 12. okay she did to begin with and then she got fed up with her okay and who was bringing her Eve uh um different people social worker would bring her okay yeah yeah and then she just got um she didn't speak to me for a long time and when you come out of the prison how old are you 33 34 33 and yeah did you go on the street and narrow when you come out of the prison that time yeah but like I lived outside I lived in Fringe societies because I lost everything yeah you know Dodge which is it's my fault you know I accept responsibility for that but then I had a proceed to Crime court case put on me how much around your neck oh it's like I think it's like something like 350 400 000 totally exaggerated yeah one you know yeah massively um and which I couldn't pay yeah you know and it took my house and they took everything which knocked about five Because by the time the house got took the mortgage hadn't been being paid anyway and then before the police get the money the bank have to get their money but because I'm not there to sell the house the house got sold at auction it got sold for like 30 grand my mortgage was 94 000. so so then on top of my proceeds of crime I also owe my bank now like 60 odd thousand um so I've come out of prison and I still owe all this money which the British government can take at any time so what am I supposed to do now I can't if I go and get a job what am I going to you know what what's the Ambit what's the goal the goal if when you get a job you know the goal is to buy a house isn't it that's your goal that's why you're working you know I can't do that yeah because I still owe the British government 400 000 pounds you know so I go and work in the British system at any point they can turn around and be like well you've still got your site standing there yeah you know you've got a house we'll take it again and they can add to it yes that's why I moved like the country okay because I just think so when you come out of the prison system British prison system I was angry you're angry yeah I'm really angry yeah human angry so what have you done over the past six seven years then since you come out did you go straight to sports and get me out of here no no no so I worked I am I lived in um I went on the road on a lived and traveler communities did you know yeah Caravans and trucks and on sites and um fruit picking and worked festivals did festivals for like three I did the whole festival did you yeah for like three four years and boom tying Glastonbury I just kept on the road so that and just avoided um interaction with the government yeah really um you know so if I'm not renting and I'm not buying a house and I'm living now so that's just a free spirit yeah and then what made how long were you doing that for before we moved to Spain uh I was doing that if I got out 2013 and I moved to Spain in 2018. okay yeah and how's that life in Spain been for you this last four years I love it amazing do you feel like it's a new Natty yeah yeah 100 yeah I just like I feel like um like I can build a life okay for myself over there like I'm completely legitimate over there I've got all my Spanish papers um I've got my residency um I live on a spiritual healing Retreat over there where I've done so much work on myself medicine work you know Ayahuasca and Camber and and really addressed all these issues psychedelics is it psychedelics okay well not really I mean cambo's not psychedelic cambo's a fog poison that's like a real detox frog yeah yeah go on canvas are frog poison um which like you you have some like little burn marks put on your Vine and there's a ceremony and a shaman and then the Frog poisons put into you and it just like really purges you of illnesses toxins you know negative energies negative thought patterns um so that's not psychedelic at all and then Ayahuasca I mean you can't say iOS because it's psychedelic because it's one of the main ingredient is is DMT yeah um so what does that stand for dimethotriptyline okay uh it's in the pineal gland so everybody has like the pineal gland and they say that the well the the site the evidence of scientific evidence is that DMT is stored in your pineal gland and it's released twice in your in your life cycle like um when you're born and when you die and they call it the The Spirit Molecule because they think this is where them Consciousness is is held and where the where the soul is is held and that's what this release of dntm is the is the soul entering the body and then the Soul leaving the body but DMT is finding everything that grows every you know leaf plant blade of Blade what's that feeling when you have taken Ayahuasca it's quite difficult to explain um it's an out-of-body experience yeah you're you're vibrating a a different frequency so it's like it's almost like you're in between two worlds so you're still like on this plane but there's a higher plane you know and a higher Consciousness and and Ayahuasca kind of puts you in between these two planes and it really makes you confront um you know your traumas like everybody has traumas you know they're not might not you know some people's traumas might be you know abuse other people's traumas might just be that they got told no or something you know there's different levels of traumas and these traumas they they affect us all now sometimes we don't really understand or realize that those traumas are bubbling away you know and they're still driving us you know like subconsciously they're the reason that we make certain choices you know and and negative behaviors and negative patterns but if you're not even aware that that is the trauma that is driving through that decision making then it's difficult to to change that decision making do you feel do you feel that you've dealt with your childhood trauma yeah you're doing that at the age of 41 40 44 yes it's taking a long time but wow yeah do you feel like you're on the right path right now 100 yeah yeah eventually yeah I feel and and I feel that everything's led to this as well you know I've like looked back and I'm like that's mental that's mental that's mental that was tough that was tough that's crazy you know but I feel like it's all part of the process yeah to lead to this point you know because without any of that then I wouldn't be here today doing the things I'm doing today and have the awareness that I'm doing today so it's just part of who I am and if I hadn't have gone through that the lessons that you learned through these experiences is that you can't learn them in a textbook you know you can't learn them in school and you can't learn them in college and you know the only way to you know um I don't know Excellence you know you've got to go through some serious stuff to learn certain Essence so that you can be a better person so now I'm just trying to be like the best version of myself Natty let's talk about your book your book Escape from venezuelan's deadliest prisons by Natalie Welsh yeah when did you write this so I started to write that when I was in San Antonio in Margarita the first prison because it was so mind-blowing I was just like I knew that it was there was a a story to tell there and I wanted people to know you know I want people to know that this isn't just in the movies like this is what it is like over here so if you're thinking about you know doing a drug friend to Venezuela then you know at least have all the information available to you if that's a decision you want to make sign whatever you know everyone has their own choices to make but at least you know be making an informed decision and it was kind of like I think it was my way of like processing as well what was yeah what was going on you know it's just like this is insane and I think I wanted it for myself as well for like future reference to just be like flipping out you know like this has got to make a Netflix movie this has to make a Netflix movie has two we're on it yeah I'm working with um I'm in collaboration with two writers so they were based in France I went to see them and now they've moved over to Spain and we're collaborating together and we're um we're it's a series we're making a TV series five seasons 13 episodes and we're in negotiations um I'm not I can't say too much about it at the moment um but it's going to be wild and when you see it on TV you'll be like okay yeah that was that was all the show she was on about I heard it firsthand yeah Natalie I've really enjoyed this episode thanks for having me thanks for listening yeah thank you thank you for coming on and for your for your pure honesty and you have been to Helen Back yeah with some of the stories yeah and to where you are now having your daughter beside your side you must feel really proud yeah you know and listening to your voice a minute ago it was it was heart-wrenching yeah at some of the points in this in this episode and I really appreciate you coming on your your you're gonna you're gonna be a huge success with this Netflix movie thanks very much thank you you take care all right

Channel: Dodge Woodall

Views: 41,119

Keywords: dodge, Dodge Woodall, venezuelan, prison, jail, crime, crime podcast, drugs, smuggler, drug smuggler, drug mule, Natalie welsh, escapes, escape prison, escaping prison, border, police, drug smuggle, caught, sentence, tough, venezuela, corrupt, warfare, gun, South American prison, survived

Id: 1oE48uqJlwE

Length: 138min 39sec (8319 seconds)

Published: Wed Feb 01 2023