- I was on "American
Idol" this past season. (participants applauding)
- Nice. - I told them straight up, in order for me to be
my most optimal self, I'll need some of these accommodations. I was the only non-minor
there who had his mom with him during that time. And I'm proud to admit that. I'm a mama's boy.
(participants applauding) (participants laughing)
(dramatic introduction music) - Hi, I am Gen and I explore
issues through both sides. And I'll be moderating this
"Middle Ground" episode of "Autistic and Neurotypical". And the first prompt is, "I find the word 'disabled' offensive." Can the agreers please step forward. (footsteps clicking on floor) - [Christine] I think
you should go back there. - [Abbey] Okay. - Well I guess I'll start off first. So being on the spectrum, the autism spectrum, myself, and being someone who masks
my autism pretty well, I have a hard time accepting
the fact that technically, yes, I am disabled. Because throughout my entire life I've had to deal with things like sensory overload, you know, dealing with
high emotions at times and stuff like that. But I also was raised to be a go-getter and if I put my mind to anything, I can accomplish my goals. And I have accomplished stuff. I'm a writer. I've written about being on the spectrum for "Insider", the "Dough"
and places like that. And I don't let my disability stop me. We live in this world where having a disability is a bad thing, and most people kind of operate that way and view disabled people
in a negative light. And so, for me, whenever someone calls me disabled, it's definitely a trigger for me, to be honest.
- Yeah, I would agree with exactly what you're saying. That was kind of the
reason I came up as well. I feel that as a root, it's not an offensive word, but the stigma that our
society has made it today has created to be an offensive word. - My son is nonverbal. He's never said a word, never had anything, use communication with his language. What I find the problem with disabled that I've always had an issue
with is it looks at my son in a way where he's supposed to be fitting into everyone else's world. Even movies that are made
about autism that are supposed to be these movies that
make everybody love autism. Usually at the end of the
movie they do something in everyone else's world
that makes them special, like, they catch a touchdown, they go to prom. My son's not gonna catch a touchdown. My son's not gonna go to prom. He doesn't care about those things. And sometimes you can just be who you are and you don't have to be labeled, well, you don't do these
things so you're disabled. - Can disagreers please
step forward, please. (footsteps clicking on floor) - I never read too deeply
into the word, disabled. It's just a descriptor of me. I'm disabled, no one's
really used disabled as an insult to me, at least not in any
way that I've been able to pick up on it. However, people have
used the R word to me, and that is what is offensive to me. Disabled is just a descriptor. At the same time though, I feel like this is a real
test for the gray area here because I still somehow agree
with what every single one of you just said, even though I disagree with the prompt. But everybody has their own relationship with words and terminology, and I think that that's
what's so beautiful about the autism community. - I find myself agreeing
with what James is saying, where his son probably
shouldn't have to conform to the ideas that the
world is setting in place. Maybe he's perfectly happy being nonverbal and he shouldn't be expected to talk. But at the same time, if we try and say disabilities don't exist and that everyone has to
fit in this box, right, and we get rid of the term altogether, then that's kind of maybe
forcing people like James's son to conform to the world. - Just to piggyback off of that. Say, James, have you told your son about this episode, and has your son ever
communicated any degree of advocacy to you at all? - I talk to him about everything. People always tell me when
they find out he's nonverbal, they're like, "You should talk to him." I'm like, "I talk to him more than I talk to anybody else on Earth, it's constant." There's things he doesn't understand, like fundamental things
that he doesn't understand. He doesn't understand
that I'm going to do this. He doesn't understand what autism is. He doesn't understand things like that, but I tell him. I'm like, "We're gonna go, we're gonna talk about you. We're gonna have all the
great things about you." When I relate to my son, what I try to do is I try
to put myself in his shoes. So I write a blog about him. I try to do autism appreciation, I call it, where I talk about the positives of autism and how he's a great kid, not despite autism, but in many ways because of autism. - That makes me very happy to hear. I'd love to read your blog. - Thank you.
- And "Jubilee" viewers, you should read his blog. (participants laughing) - That's my (indistinct) man. I have a new (indistinct) man, thank you. - So, back to the prompt. - Just like what you have said, I was one of the few people
that faced the R word, especially in high school. I haven't been called disabled for any reason to be offensive, for me, anyways. But I do see how it can be
debatable and questionable because it can come off as, like, you're trying to say this
person can't do something just because they can't think accordingly or maybe
cannot walk accordingly or can't concentrate accordingly. - Do you identify or view
yourself as disabled? - Yes, but I don't personally find
it offensive for me because I feel like
there's just uglier words. But I do respect where everyone
else is coming from, though. - What do you think of
that word, disabled? Does it bother you? - Disabled, for me, the kind of autism I have
is a communication disorder. Like, for example, when I was a little girl I
walked around in circles, talking to myself. I wanted to join the conversation
but I didn't know how, and my brain wouldn't do
what I was telling it to do. And I've had 20 years of speech therapy, 15 years of occupational therapy, to be able to talk like everyone else, to get where I am today. - So you think it's okay to
use the word, disability, because it helps people
understand how hard you've worked to be in the conversation?
- Yes, it does. I'm even in the therapy right now. - That's true. And I would agree with Abbey on that. I would say that because
this autism word and spectrum now has successful people and writers. - Yeah.
- Who are neuro different and people who have had 20
years of speech therapy. - And I'm one of them. - And you are.
(Christine chuckling) And and rockstar over here. (Abbey chuckling) But it's confusing. So I like the word, disability, because when we're in
public and Abbey has a stim, her arms are flailing, you know. - Yeah, and some people
on the spectrum tend to rock back and forth
and flop their hands. - That's a stim. - Why you gotta call me out? I was doing that just now.
(participants laughing) - Literally, I've been
holding my hands like this. I was trying not to.
- I do that too. - That's a good stim, though. - I even do this but I
don't rock back and forth. - Right, but that's not your stim but other people do like that. - It's not mine.
- But whatever that thing is, I just feel like if you understand that autism can be different, can be a disability because
I don't have to stim. I can stim, this is a stim too.
- And everybody stims. - But it's not imperative
for me to do that to be in this conversation right now. - I do have a question though, 'cause our word kind of came
up amongst a few of you guys. Is there any nuance with that in that being not offensive or offensive? - No.
(participants chuckling) Just straight out, no. Because, the thing is, we've come such a long
way in terms of, like, well, I don't know if a long way in terms of understanding autism. I think that's why we're all here. (participants laughing) But just more like, we've gone past that word. And I remember, I used to work at a coffee
shop and there was this guy who would never call people that word, but he just would say, "Oh that's R word." Like, that's whatever. He was kind of one of those
people that was kind of, like, "Well, it's just a word
and it's just a word." I'm like, "Well, there are several other English words (participants laughing)
to use." So it's just like, I don't really see point. The medical field has gotten past it, we should get past it. - Yeah, the year is not 1940. And at this point in
today's modern language, it is really an insult. Especially going to a public high school, I hear that a lot. - Yeah.
- Yes. (dramatic rumbling music) - "I have trouble making friends." Can the agreers step up? (footsteps clicking on floor) (Adin sighing) - I get emotional thinking about this. I still am struggling, especially now. It just feels like everyone is, you know. I'd never had any friends until 3rd grade. I only talked about Pokemon with him and that was it, and he was probably likely
also on the spectrum. And I was so severely bullied at my public elementary school. Girls tended to be nicer
to me as opposed to boys. - I see eye to eye. - Yeah, I have a lot of trauma
that I'm working through, regarding bullying in that way. I find it harder to talk to men, even today, for that reason. I'm lonely, I'm so lonely.
(chuckling emotionally) I really, I channel all
of it into my music. I channel every aspect of my loneliness and trying to understand other people and trying to connect with other people in my music and my songwriting. It is my coping mechanism and I just try and keep myself busy, to cope with the fact that I've really, really struggled to make friends. - When I was a little girl, life was very, very hard. I didn't have any friends. I wanted to join the conversation but I couldn't because
my brain wouldn't do what I was telling it to do. And in high school, I sat alone at lunch and I
didn't really have any friends. I didn't start making friends
till I was like 17 or 18. - Same here. - Somewhere around there.
- Same here. Truly, yeah. - That's why I've always
wanted to be an adult because I knew I'd have more language. It'll be easy for me to communicate and life in general would've been easier. - I actually can relate
with Adin to an extent. I had a difficult time
making friends because, well, at the time when I was younger, of course, I didn't know I had autism, but I was also a little bit different. I was those autistic kids who kind of was a social butterfly at the time. So believe it or not, aside from how I appear, I was such a extrovert. I was being seen in middle school as kind of like a class clown. And then by high school, the first high school I went to, which was a really bad school, I was put the little gay
stigma because of my voice. Because all the guys there, their voices are more like, low like this.
(Austin's voice deep) But at the time mine was like, more high like this.
(Austin's voice high-pitched) But it was hard. And by the other high school, which I spent the rest
of my high school years, I made a little bitty friends, but people who actually
did not just disregard me and did not see me as like a walking joke or some potential lost cause. 'Cause a lot of them was
weirdly enough afraid of me of what I could do, so. - Well, I would like to chime in, in case it were to... Okay, never mind. - In a sec. - Yeah, well now I don't remember. (participants chuckling) Well, no I do. I have friends. I do have friends, but I only have friends one at a time. I have never in my life, ever, truly been a part of a friend group. And I have some of the most
beautiful friendships ever and they're so quality
because it's just me and that one friend. But man, I just wish I
could be a part of a group. I was out in public recently. I saw four artsy-looking
people that were about my age and they were all talking
and having a blast, and I was just looking at them, just like. - The jealousy kicks in.
(participants chuckling) - Yeah, when am I gonna have that? That's what I wanted to add. You can move on now.
- Thank you for sharing. - It's funny 'cause I disagreed. I was the only one on
my side who disagreed but I also can pinpoint each of you in something that you said 'cause I definitely can relate. I think I've gotten good at developing surface-level
friendships as an adult. I still don't really know how to find that line between opening myself up, but also not expecting the same in return from the other person 'cause
sometimes they don't know how to give the same in return. (Adin sighing agreeingly) So it's not just necessarily that the other person has bad intentions. It's just the way we communicate and the way that we think can be different and just not always work,
(knuckles thudding together) and I think that's still
something I'm struggling with. - Even here, hearing you guys over there when I was disagreeing, the level of openness that you're willing to share these stories is, it's what we always say we want. Like, as a parent you go, I wanna have a kid who's
honest and who doesn't lie and who doesn't do these things. And then I'm like, he has autism. (James exclaiming sadness) And no, but that's
exactly what we all want. I mean, it isn't a bad thing. (participants laughing)
And they don't get it. And I've struggled with my son. My son is not, I mean, social was always in my
opinion out the window for him. He's not very, like, he doesn't wanna socialize, hang out with people. But, what ended up happening was my girlfriend's son is minimally verbal and he's known him since he
was like three years old. And whenever we would get together, he would always try to play with my son, and Lucas was just kind of like, whatever. And we noticed about a year ago, they were in the pool and Lucas started following
him around the pool, trying to tag him. I was like oh my God is this happening? And we've noticed slowly that
he's been doing that too. I see that and I worry about him having people be his friend. I worry about people
taking advantage of him. I worry about neurotypical
people sometimes having the worst intentions.
(James smirking) These people who don't have
disabilities are the ones who sometimes do some of the
cruelest and worst things. So it's always been, I'm not so worried about him and friends, I'm worried about the
other people around him to be his friends sometimes a little more. - As far as developing
friendships, it's ironic, 'cause I am insanely social. I traveled Europe by
myself with a backpack and I'm still friendly with people I met for a week on a train in Venice. When Abbey was, as she told you, a little kid, she almost didn't see them. - It's like I didn't see them. - It was like other kids, she just walked right past them. She was so in her own world
which is her kind of autism, so. - And can I explain the whole Ariel story? - You can. Sure, why not?
- And when I was a really little kid when I first saw the movie, Walt Disney's "The Little Mermaid", I really understood Ariel
and she inspired me. Ariel was my inspiration
because it's just like how where she wanted to be with the humans and I wanted to be with with
the neurotypical people, just like that. And when Ariel became human, she couldn't talk. That's how I felt. (participants humming in agreement) - [Adin] That's exactly the kind of autism I have too, Abbey. (Abbey gasping)
- Really? - [Adin] Yeah, except I never
verbalized it like you did. - "I have looked down on
someone for being autistic." (footsteps clicking on floor) - I'll sit next to you, why not? (Ian chuckling) Yeah, I mean I have. I mean, I'm not proud of it. 'Cause I was diagnosed around
three or four years old, and my parents got me
intervention very early. Because of that I was able to get coping skills and learn how to mask and learn how to, essentially, be like everyone else. I'm at a weird point. The last couple years I really have come to realize that the mask I've had to put on has really been
kind of cemented onto my face. (Ian chuckling)
And my autistic self is something I'm still
trying to chip away at. Like when I was younger, I was never the one to bully anyone, but I would take note of other kids who I felt like were autistic, like whether they stimmed
noticeably or not, and I kind of subconsciously
would just sort of be like, well, I can mask. Why can't you keep it together, for lack of a better way of saying it? And I'm certainly not proud of it and it's something that
I definitely am working towards correcting about myself. But for me to say that I haven't
done that would be a lie, which is why I'm sitting here. (clicking instrumental music) (footsteps clicking on floor) - I never really spoke
or never looked down on those on the spectrum, and this was obviously before
I found out I was autistic. 'Cause I was diagnosed at two and then I later found out by, like, I think middle school year. But I never looked down on them because at the end of the day, for me anyways, they're human. And let alone, aside from me being autistic, I also can be looked down because I'm, as you all see, I'm alternative and stuff.
(Austin chuckling) So there's just no point, for me anyways, to look down on someone
that's on a spectrum or anyone who's with special needs or
has any other disabilities that they may not have asked for anyways. - From the information I've gathered, the four of us who are on the spectrum were all
diagnosed very early. I would be very, very curious to know somebody who was diagnosed much later's perspective on that, especially since for so many of these later-diagnosed people, they don't realize they're
on the spectrum immediately. - I've sat at parties with Asperger kids, which I know you're not
supposed to say that word, but the intelligence in an
Asperger person is such a gift. And I've learned all about astronomy from this one kid in two hours. And his mother was saying, "Oh, leave her, leave the nice lady alone." And I was like, "No, please let him stay with me. This is so cool." That's 'cause I'm coming from that place of looking at neurodiversity, autism, Asperger's in a different way 'cause I've been around it for 25 years. - I am a teacher's aide for the beginning theater
class at my school, and there are quite a few
kids in the class with autism. Sometimes they'll say something that's a little crazy
or a little out there. Some other kid might take offense to it, but I just know sometimes
there's no filter, it's okay. And I'm just like, okay, let's talk about why that might not work, why that might not be a thing to say, or if it's something that's, like, whatever, we can just move past it. So yeah, definitely no judgment at all. I understand that sometimes there's less of a filter or something else like that. - So both of my parents are special education preschool teachers. They've bounced around
throughout the grade levels. But when I was in preschool, I went to the same campus that they did and I was in a class where myself, and then later my sister, were the only two neurotypical kids. Everyone else there either
had autism, Asperger's or some sort of physical disability. It's not something where I would look down on a person for having that, just because I've been around it so long. But I know that, like we were talking
about public high schools and kids in general can be really cruel. And it's not uncommon to see autism or the R word being thrown
around as an insult. - Yes.
- And it happens on social media all the time, especially TikTok.
- Unfortunately. - TikTok is like a war ground, a battleground for the rudest, meanest, most judgmental people. And sadly, a percentage
of them say they are on the spectrum. - Prior to my son being diagnosed, I remember one of the things
that worried me was that, as a parent when you first have a baby, autism is almost treated like
something you have to avoid. It's almost like, "Be careful, don't feed him this, don't do this, don't tell him that."
(participants chuckling) And then when he had autism I was, like, "Okay, now what?" And they're all like. And I'm, like, "But what does it mean?" Nobody could tell me what it meant. Nobody told me what it looked like. I mean, he smiles. He hugs me. And they're like, "Some people hug." "Is he gonna talk?" "Maybe." I'm like, "You're not
gonna tell me anything. What am I gonna find out about him?" So I was preconditioned to
be fearful of this thing that once I saw how it
affected our lives, personally, it wasn't bad. It was one of those things where I was expecting the
worst possible situation. I think a lot of times people
have opinions on something that they don't know anything about. - What I actually just realized is one of the key defining moments
was actually remembering. I was having a hard time
socializing in middle school. - Same here.
- I remember one commercial. - Yeah, me too.
- From Autism Speaks. - It was like the (beep) black plague
(Abbey gasping) was among us and just
talking about autism. It's like autism was basically
treated like this curse (Adin chuckling)
and, you know, it's gonna creep on you when you're least expecting
it, and everything. And I remember that commercial
vividly and it's just like, what kind of message are you
sending out to the whole world who won't take the time to
educate themselves on things? - Yeah, I'm so happy that "Autism Speaks" has really stepped up their
game in recent years since then. (dramatic rumbling music) - "It's harder for autistic
people to get a job." - [Narrator] Join our
Middle Ground Patreon to watch this exclusive prompt. (dramatic rumbling music) - "Accommodations should be made for autistic people to
be included in society." (footsteps clicking on floor) - Something that I've
written about quite a bit and why I've felt like I've had to write about my autistic
experiences a lot as an adult is because there are no
services really for adults. (Ian smirking)
And that's a problem. At least, besides like speech
therapies and stuff like that. I mean in terms of for me
learning how to be social, it was something I had to learn on my own. And I know that other autistic
people, unfortunately, will struggle with substance abuse and alcoholism and stuff like that. Because putting on the
mask can be so exhausting and you just kind of don't
know what else to do. Taking THC for me has
helped really kind of learn, helped me learn about my autism, actually, which just sounds like
such a stoner thing. I don't consider myself a stoner. (participants chuckling) I don't think those are concrete things and I do think that the medical industry, in part by updating their understanding and updating terminology, I do think that there needs to be more. - What are some specific
accommodations you would like to see? - I don't know if I can think
of specific accommodations, but I think, again, just this overall misunderstanding
of autism, really. As cliche as it is, I mean, it really just affects
every single autistic person. - Well, the problem is that
autism manifests itself in so many unique ways.
- It does, yeah. - And it can differ so much from person to person.
- Right. - That the moment that you're out of the public school system, right, they stop providing an aid, right. - Yeah.
- Exactly. - Yeah, and navigating life yourself like that is probably really difficult. - It's difficult for a
typical person coming out of high school in this day
and age with the pressures and social media in your face. - And inflation.
- I see it with her brother. It is so hard, I think, for a lot of the people, let alone someone, and then the parents of the
person who just turned 18, trying to help their kid build a life. - Yeah, with no support, - No support, it takes a lot of fight. I'm a fighter,
(Christine chuckling) so I speak from that. I've been there, done that. I have cried more hours on the phone, trying to get accommodations
and programs going for her after 18 than I did
when she was a younger kid. - Not to mention, colleges are one of the few places that has a piss poor reputation. I'm not saying all
universities and colleges, but most of them has
a piss poor reputation for not having appropriate accommodations. But not just for kids on spectrum, but I mean other kids, whether they're neurotypical, but they have special education. - Oh, absolutely.
- Who could be overstimulated. - Yeah, they can be overstimulated. 'Cause when you're out of high school and you're trying to figure
out what you wanna do, a special college and you
try getting your IEP, I mean, sorry, IEP,
(Austin chuckling awkwardly) it feels like you're going under. Because I'm trying so hard to scream, "I need assistance," but it's like they still won't hear me. I'm in a new college. I'm gonna be attending that one soon. But the other one that
I finished my AA in, they made a big reputation for not taking appropriate matters when dealing with people with IEPs or that really does need help, even if they're not on the spectrum. - Congrats on your AA.
- Yes, thank you. - Let's hear disagree? - All right, just to be clear, I do not disagree with any of you. (participants laughing) But I do disagree with the
prompt because, obviously, people on the spectrum
need accommodations. I had an IEP growing up. I feel like I often need
accommodations all the time. But I really am hopeful
that we can get to a point where we won't need accommodations to be included in society. You know what I mean?
- Yeah. - Like, for example, Best Buddies, an organization. They say it firsthand, they exist to not exist. They're doing these amazing services for including disabled people, but ultimately the goal
is for that to not happen. - I always try to be
respectful of everybody else. Like if we are at a loud restaurant and he's yelling in a loud restaurant, everyone's yelling, he can yell louder. But if we're at a library, if we're at a recital or something, I take him outside. So because of that, there's things we can't do. But in the last few years
we've been going to, like on Broadway, they'll have autism
friendly presentations. We saw the "Rockettes". We saw "The Nutcracker". And it was so great to not only
be able to do that with him and let him be able to see
that and be a part of it and to not stand out. But on top of it too, people who are affected by
autism differently than my son, to see them given fidget
toys and they squeak, I'm like, this is such a beautiful thing. And I think sometimes when
we talk about accommodations, a lot of people who are
neurotypical see it as, okay, what are you gonna do to my thing now to make it easier for somebody else? And what I'm saying is, you don't necessarily have
to change what you're doing, but maybe make something that
my son can go to as well, where if he's not gonna
interfere with what you're doing, that kind of a thing. That's how I saw it
when I sat down for it. - Just 'cause you were
talking about Broadway shows. I know the show, "How to Dance in Ohio".
- I just saw it. - I saw, "How to Dance in Ohio" in New York.
- I really wanna go see it. - It was great.
- But if I remember correctly, I think they do have like a sensory room. - They do, they have a sensory room. - They have everything.
- They have spinners. They have all kinds of
stuff that's accommodated and the performers are
on the spectrum, too. - Right, and so like with that, I think we can normalize things like that. - I was on "American
Idol" this past season. (participants applauding) Well.
(Adin chuckling) - Nice.
(participants laughing) - And told them straight up, in order for me to be my most optimal self and in order for me to be my best self, I'll need some of these accommodations. I understand that
schedules are a bit loose when it comes to entertainment
industry-related stuff, but if you can just give me
some degree of a little push as to giving me some sort of ETA for this, that and the other? And they were great. They were great. I had a wonderful experience on "American Idol" for that reason. I was the only non minor
there who had his mom with him during that time. And I'm proud to admit that. I'm a mamma's boy.
(Adin chuckling) (participants applauding) (dramatic rumbling music) - "Autistic people are
not accurately represented in the media." (footsteps clicking on floor)
- Let's go, people. - I have so many thoughts about this. (Ian chuckling)
- It's okay. - Obviously, I'm a white autistic male, and a lot of the mainstream
representation are, quote, unquote, like "super intelligent
white autistic males." But that's all there really is. And for me, I'm not like Sean on "The Good Doctor". I think we've definitely
made some good progress with certain things, but I just remember growing up, it was always like superficial stereotype. And I just would love to
see autism represented in a way that's more nuanced, particularly with women. Not all autistic women are Temple Grandin. (Abbey gasping)
- I know her. - As brilliant as she is. As brilliant as she is. The problem is they
wanna take these pillars and just kind of think that
these are the only options. It's either like the worst of the worst or the best of the best
and that's not fair and that's not true.
- No, that's so true. - I wanna see an autistic character where their autism isn't
necessarily their whole story. - I have some friends who think that, and I think this is
probably kind of prevalent. If you say they have autism, they have savant syndrome, right, where they're just a genius and they can magically
do something perfectly, like play piano. Or they're a person who has
really low functioning autism and they can't do much. They need able people to help them. It's unfortunate that that's
kind of the two stories that are being pushed, and there's not a lot of nuance there. And people assume the worst or the best and they don't look at it the other way. - So my thing is, I wish that the term, spectrum, keeps getting bigger
and bigger and bigger. And what it doesn't do is honor
the individual skill sets. - Right.
- Like, you have an incredible skillset. You just got your AA, congratulations. - Thank you.
(Austin chuckling) - And your son sounds amazing and loving and sweet and
you know what that is 'cause you spend all your time with him. And this charm right here is amazing. But what bothers me the most.
- Thank you. - Is that in the media, like TikTok, for example, I guess it's trending to be autistic. - Oh, it's trendy.
- And I'm very worried about this, it's trending.
- "MagicWithThomas". - But what I'd like to say is, if you have sensory issues, you're now called autistic. I grew up with a brother
who had sensory issues. He is not autistic, but now you're clumped in with that. So then what is the representation? If there's literally not three levels, but 50 levels of functioning.
- 50 levels of functioning? - Yeah, it's confusing.
- Right. - Like, on TikTok, you'll see, like someone
eight million followers on TikTok who's a comedian, who's the funniest person ever and who I'm an amazing fan of, is looking for an autism diagnosis at 35 with a college degree and two kids. And you go, oh, I wonder what that is for them because did you have any speech therapy? What is it and why do you
feel you need that diagnosis? But that media attention is
what's permeating the rest of people who are not familiar
with autism, thinking, oh, I don't like loud noises, I hate the sun, I must too be autistic. And that's a worry for me. - I'm curious, do you think
that media representation, could you see it in a
positive light in the sense that now people are
wanting to identify with it because they've seen the
positive traits of autism? - There's something positive
going on with it being, I use the word, trendy. But I will tell you, if I didn't have people that
attack me on social media for helping Abbey to get her, what do we say, what's our sentence? To get your brain?
- To do what I'm telling it to do, of course.
- Right. To get her brain to do what she's telling it to do.
- I don't like the haters. - I know, there's some really mean people and it's because I'm helping her. - The haters are ugly and the haters are extremely overweight. (participants applauding) - That's quite an insult.
- Oh, yeah. - Now, why don't you tell them
why is that you said that, 'cause you're thinking in categories. - 'Cause I think in categories. This is the way my mind works, and I wrote a song about it. - Right, but that is part
of what we're dealing with to be in the conversation
right here, right now. - In media, there's
the gender stereotypes, there's the racial stereotypes
and people are saying, "Oh, we need to fight the stereotypes," but everyone's okay with the stereotypes about autism happening. And there obviously is a small group of people trying to fight those, but there's not as big of a realm of, oh, we need to fight
the racial stereotypes, we need to fight the gender stereotypes as there is for the rest. (clicking instrumental music) - Okay, once again,
(Adin chuckling) I totally agree with everybody. But the reason why I stayed back is because I can't lie here, I really do feel like I have
been represented quite well. But I think the reason for that is. - You are the representation.
- I am the stereotype. (participants applauding)
- Yeah. - I'm a blonde boy. I was diagnosed as a child. I was in my own world.
- I was in my own world too. - Yeah, I was considered
gifted with my piano skills and perfect pitch as a child. (Abbey gasping)
- Me too. So was I. - A lot of people called
me a prodigy as a child. So I fit that stereotype. Another reason why I stayed back is because I think we're headed
in a better direction. For example, "How to Dance in Ohio". There's another series
I watched just recently. It was a British series. "Heartbreak High", the
character I mentioned earlier. - Yeah. Yeah. No, there are some great stuff out there. My personal favorite, Disney Pixar's, "Loop".
- Yes. - I think you would really enjoy it because it features a
non-speaking character and it's played by a non-speaking person. - [James] Oh, yeah? - You should definitely check it out. - Do you think it's offensive when someone who's
neurotypical plays a character that is autistic? - Yes. That was one thing I
was gonna to bring up, especially where Veronica was bringing up about the more inclusive, basically, inclusive appropriation. I do feel like it's so
offensive where someone that's neurotypical to portray
someone that's autistic. Sia did that with a little girl who was of not on the spectrum, and she had a lot of backlash for that. And I see what they're trying to do, but they don't think about why not someone that can understand it, especially for the fact, this is something that's not temporary. This is permanent. - Something that's kind of important is that in the media a lot we
see characters with autism. Their entire character
development is either learning to cope with autism or
learning to mask autism. And it's not often something
where it's like yourself, where it's like your story
is learning music, right, and becoming a teacher. And that's such a more
wholesome story than a person who's basically learning
to suppress themselves. - [Adin] Yeah. - I think the reason why
I have such a pushback against "The Good
Doctor" and "Atypical" is because I went to drama school, I've surrounded myself
with industry professionals who are not autistic. I know the intent, and in my opinion, they're doing it for money. I'm sorry. It's selfish. It's greedy. And no matter, even if they think they're
doing the right thing, because they're relying most
of the time on stereotypes, they're continuing to push the narrative that we are not just one monolith. And for me, that really bothers me. And in no way, shape, or form trying to downplay.
- No, and I totally agree with that too. I think it's better that people on the spectrum, yeah.
- I just get angry about it. - That could be said for anything, though. - I feel the same way about LGBTQ films. - Exactly.
- With straight guys who try to pander and be all, you know, clearly they're playing gay
characters to win an Oscar. I mean, I think of "Saltburn".
- "Gay for Pay". - Yeah, "Gay for Pay". - I think media as a whole is superficial. 90% of the time, there's some deep movies, deep shows, things like that. But the reason why they only deal with, how they deal with their autism or where they got their autism from, and not something deeper like your story, is because they don't tell those stories. They just tell you the quickest
thing they could tell you. - That's why I was so honored
to be on "American Idol". I am very, very happy with how they portrayed me. They even included my
meltdown in there as well. It was very raw and they didn't skew it. I can truly say that, you know. That's another reason why I say, I think we're headed
in the right direction, because I'm a firsthand
lived example of that. Last point. - And then you were talking about how, oh, LGBTQ films or actors
of different races, and there's not that much
happening with actors without autism representing
characters with autism. That's just 'cause
there's not enough movies being made about that. Like, you saw Sia's "Music", and there was tons of
backlash against that. But there hasn't been that
much backlash in recent films because there just aren't
enough films being made. - Which is ironic because Sia
actually came out last year and said that she was
diagnosed with autism, which is a whole other
ballgame that intrigues me. But anyway.
(participants applauding) I just, I had to throw that out there. - A lot of writing prompts there. (participants applauding) - Let's move on to the next prompt. - All right. - "It's better for autistic people to date within the community." (footsteps clicking on floor) - You know what.
(participants applauding) You know what, I gonna just pop a squat. - You hesitated, I'm
curious if you wanna start? - I hesitated because that's
such a superficial thing, just in the basis of it. I don't wanna just be with somebody just because they're autistic. But, you know, it's good to find commonality in someone. And I think autism is a
huge part of my identity and how we see the world. I personally don't look for... I mean, granted I've never
been in a relationship and I think me being autistic and not trusting guys in
particular is something that I struggle with. But I can see how it is better
because it's easy just to, 'cause that autistic person
might be able to see you. Just even sitting here just
talking about our experiences, you can say something and I
can see you in that moment and it feels good. But ultimately, I don't think
it's the end all and be all. - So Abbey, do you wanna
talk about dating David who's on the spectrum? - David, my boyfriend, is also on the autism
spectrum and we like to go to the Century City Mall
independently sometimes. - And what's great about David that you always talk about?
- He understands the way my mind works. He understands my autism, and we just went to the zoo yesterday - For her autism, dating someone within the
autism community is right. And David understands her autism. Just the other night, we had a big dinner in a restaurant and there was a crying baby
right next to our table. What did David do for you? - He covered my ears and in some ways, that baby actually really liked me. When he was crying,
(Ian laughing) he was a lot and you know
who he reminded me of? "Curious George".
(participants applauding) The little monkey. And his mother reminded me of
the man with the yellow hat. - She's great with the analogies, right. But what was great is
that when she started to have a meltdown and
a real anxiety attack because of that screaming baby, that auditory sound, they wouldn't change tables. We asked to change our table, the restaurant wouldn't do it. It's just one of those unfortunate scenes. The family was really nice, it was just unfortunate. David leaned over and covered her ears and let her experience that. And I'm not sure a typical
person would get that or understand that or
have patience for that. And that happens by the way, a lot. - Would you feel uncomfortable having a neurotypical person date Abbey? - Candidly speaking, I
guess I kind of would, because the innocence. She needs an aid and a helper always. We're still learning life skills. I don't understand how a
typical person might be able to have that level of patience. I'm not saying it's not possible, but I just think in general. And what I've witnessed between David and Abbey literally makes
me cry tears of joy. It's the most beautiful thing ever. - Yeah.
(clicking instrumental music) - I've never been in a relationship either and I a hundred percent would love to date someone
else on the spectrum. I definitely think that
there would be a lot of beautiful connection there. However, there really
is something beautiful about a neurotypical person
who just gives a crap. I'm personally no less attracted to autistic people than I
am to neurotypical people. But man, I'd be lying if I said I did not only want to date someone on the spectrum. - I actually do agree what
y'all was saying earlier. I do see where y'all coming
from about having someone on the spectrum date with someone on the spectrum just would lead less, it will bring less problems. But it just depends on
the person, I guess. Because I know me, 'cause I can relate within. Just to state, I'm pansexual, and unfortunately, some
people who I had feelings for, I had to try find many reasons not to have feelings for them, especially at work.
(participants applauding) - Story of my life.
(participants applauding) - Yeah, no. I hate it 'cause it's just
weird and inappropriate for me. But any who.
(Austin chuckling) I just think people on a
spectrum should be able to make a choice if it's safe to do so. Because we are living
in a garden of evil and (participants applauding) we do have unfortunate people that will manipulate those of us, whether we still have
our innocence or not. - What about you, what's your dating life like? (participants applauding)
I'm just kidding. I'm kidding. I'm totally kidding. - So, I'm 16.
(participants applauding) (indistinct) You obviously should be
aware that, you know, sometimes people will prey on those who they think they can manipulate, even in neurotypical relationships. But at the same time, I don't think that anyone, kind of regardless of who they are, should close themselves
off to someone solely based on a group that they're a
part of or a stereotype, right.
- That I agree with. I do agree with.
- I think we should treat everyone as individuals
and look at as such. And so maybe we should be kind of open to whatever comes our way.
- Exactly. - Let me put it this way, the autism label should not be the reason why a neurotypical person would not wanna date
someone on the spectrum, the autism themselves, you know. You see what I mean?
- Yeah. - It's hard to explain. The label can't get in the way. If someone is, like, "Oh, by the way I have autism," and then they just
immediately walk away just because of that, you know, then I think that that's
a little bit of a problem. - I think dating is probably
a struggle for many people. - And, yes.
(Christine laughing) - Whether it be neurotypical or autistic. - I mean, that's why I
have respect for you, especially for a fact you're a single mom. You taking care of two
kids with a full-time job. I have total respect for you.
- Thank you. - 'Cause my mom is in a similar boat. I completely have full respect for you, so I understand completely. - How did you go about, I guess, setting up that blind date? Is there a way for maybe autistic people to be able to date easier? Is there such systems?
- Well it's interesting because she was on "Love on the Spectrum" and so that was like a random thing that came from Australia to the US. And I'll be honest with you, even saying yes to doing that show, she didn't really know what it was, I didn't really know what it was. But then I saw Australia season
one and it made me nervous because they were driving
cars, college grads. They were going to Europe by themselves. And I was like, well, we don't have that, and there's a big
expressive language issue. So I think you want, pardon the term, Asperger's in love because these folks have
a different skillset, and I didn't want her
to be in over her head. She didn't care really
one way or the other. So obviously, it was a great thing we did, but I will say that the
team once they came over, they were really kind about it and they let her kind of
be her and do her thing. - Yeah, that's right, 'cause I couldn't focus and sit still. I needed to be moving.
- During the interview? - Yeah.
- Yeah. - You made it through with flying colors. (participants applauding)
- Thank you. - And and flying colors
means victoriously, by the way.
- Yes. - And you're doing it here now. - Yes.
(dramatic rumbling music) - "Autism can be a strength." (footsteps clicking on floor) (Christine chuckling) - [Christine] I had to
think about that, huh. I don't know. - I know people say it's a superpower. I don't necessarily agree
that it's a superpower. One of the reasons why, like, I write about autism
appreciation with my son, and I haven't really told
the story of the reason why. When my son was first
showing signs of delay and we were getting him diagnosed, that's all I thought about was, like, it's worst thing in the world. Terrible things are gonna happen. Terrible things are gonna happen. As I was worrying about it being the worst
thing in the world, I had a heart attack and it turns out I needed
the quintuple bypass. So I had a quintuple bypass. I was 35. I had no idea. I had no health problems
before that or anything. And I remember being in the hospital and I didn't think about
what he couldn't do. I didn't think about my worries, I just wanted to see him. I wanted to get my son back. And since that day I've seen, I've tried to focus my
entire life on positives, but especially when it comes to him, the positives that come with his autism, and the fact that I said before, he's true, he's honest, he's genuine, his soul is pure. The things that he does
are for a good reason. And a lot of the things that I think sometimes I'm guilty of, as somebody who's neurotypical, selfish tendencies sometimes
or conceit or arrogance, things like that, he doesn't have those things. And it's almost like the removal of those things are his strength. - I actually agree. I see your point because I do
think autism is a strength. As you said, being autistic, I guess, my meaning, double the innocence
versus how you would be when you're neurotypical. Because when I was in high school, (James chuckling) imagine all the crap I
have to eves drop on. And I'm just like, yeah, I think I know how you're
gonna be growing up. (participants chuckling) But it's not all of them anyways. But the whole point though is, some of them do remind you the times where those innocence
is almost so valuable. 'Cause you only wanna have
them once, and sometimes depending on what you do, you may get it partly and
some days you may get it, but not the same way
like you used to, so yes. - Personally, I'm a little on the fence about the pure thing. I was called pure a lot as a teenager. I just, I'm not totally
sure how I feel about that, but I totally understand
what you're saying in every other way. And, for me it takes the form of, autism is my superpower. Autism is my strength. Autism is something I have, it's not something that I am. That's my relationship with it. And I will accommodate your
relationships with your autism. Autism is not always a strength, though. Some of the most traumatic moments of my life have been sensory overloads, meltdowns in public. So I think that that would be kind of ridiculous
to call that a strength. But at the same time, autism is very much a strength
in so many other ways. - For me, I ditto that.
(participants applauding) But I will say, I am slightly different
in the sense of, like, I identify as an autistic person, rather than a person with autism because it's not something
I need to otherise, for me. I understand why other
people would kind of, everyone has their right
to their preference. In terms of it being a strength, I see it as a strength because, frankly, I don't know who I would be without it. (Ian chuckling)
Because, for me, in terms of how to
incorporate my autism to that, I use it as part of my arsenal. Not as like a crutch, but just more as like a, I can do this because I have this mixture of my autism and my upbringing, and I kind of bring them two together because that's what I know. - But you can't simply
look at autism as a deficit as opposed to a strength, because that's basically saying
part of who that person is, is a deficit, and that's not correct. And so, it's better that we try and have this positive outlook
on it instead of saying, hey, this person has a problem. It's, hey, this person is different. How can we help them or accept them? - But see, in Abbey's case, there is a deficit and
that's the difference. So that's why the spectrum
and the language is confusing. If you have to learn to
talk and you have to learn that the world is happening right here, because some people come in so isolated, just shut down. And I wish that the industry
would change the language so that those that have
overcome deficit are honored, and those that have just
a difference are honored. Do you see why the
language and the confusion and new diagnostic things, it's all sort of blurred
lines until we get this clear, and it's to me the biggest problem. - Hey Abbey, I wanna ask you a question. What do you think your strengths are? - My strengths are singing, swimming. I can see things before anyone else. I can remember things. I can hear things far
away in the distance. - Yeah, no, it's very, very important that we all acknowledge
the fact that everybody, whether we're on the spectrum or not, has strengths and weaknesses, things that make us unique. Just because the weaknesses or deficits, if you will, might seem a bit more
outlandish or might be things that an overwhelming majority of society does not struggle with, doesn't mean that that unique
struggle is any less valid. - I just wanna say that it's wonderful to get to talk to everyone, and I'm really glad to be able to hear about all your experiences. Because I didn't know a
lot of the experiences that you guys have had. I'm really glad I was
able to understand those and learn those today. - So to conclude it, I know you were recently
on "American Idol". (participants laughing)
- Yes. - [Gen] We would love to hear you sing. - Oh well, before I sing.
- Before I sing to you. (participants laughing) - Go stream my brand new EP, "Regroup". I've worked with some
absolutely incredible people, including my drummer, Logan Sheppard. Shout-out to you, man, who is also on the spectrum
and is a touring drummer. Anything is possible and. ♪ You are the best that will never be ♪ - Oh my God.
♪ In my life, in my life ♪ (Adin chuckling)
(participants applauding) - Whoa, what about me?
- No, your turn. Yes, - Do you know Taylor Swift, the singer? - Yeah.
- Oh, yeah. - Yes.
- She's great. - She's amazing. ♪ I have this thing where I get
older but just never wiser ♪ ♪ Midnights become my afternoons ♪ (participants applauding) - That's good.
- That's amazing. - Do you guys wanna hug, shake it out? - Yeah.
- Yeah. - Yeah, I have a voice coach. Her mother used to be a
singer, my grandmother. How's my singing voice? - Oh you sound great, Abbey.
- Thank you. - How's my singing voice?
- Great. - Whatever you wanna. (participants laughing)
- You too, man. (participants chatting festively)
