If we just take God out of it, might there not be some things right that your scientific beliefs can't explain? My name is Matt, I'm 41 years old. I'm a pastor. I'm Gyokei, I'm 40 years old. I'm a minister of a Buddhist church. I'm Andrew, I'm 42, and I'm a chemist. I'm Jess, I'm 36, and I'm a volcanologist I'm Don, I'm 64. I'm a paleontologist and geologist. I'm Amy, I'm 53, and I'm a Rabbi This is literally my greatest fear that I'd be all alone in the circle. I believe that this world was created I've placed my faith in a God that is Infinitely creative in what he's made. He then deserves my worship and my affection. Seriously last night I was talking to wife. I was like 'what if there's a question that I'm the only one that agrees to?' She's like 'just stay where you are,' and I was like 'I don't know' The big problem is that means they start talking with creator and I've battled Creationism most my entire career as an evolutionary biologist and paleontologist, it brings in a whole category of things that violate my rules as a scientist as well and When I step back from that, especially when I step back from where I started as a religious person when I was younger I look at this and I say, you know if anything what we see now about the universe shows how poorly designed it is how sloppy it is and how painful it is and all these things which don't speak to a very benevolent creator because if anything it makes him look bad. I don't believe in a supernatural God. I'm a reconstructionist Jew. For me, I don't rely on a supernatural creator in order to remain astounded at the beauty of this world, that's sloppy. It's the world right? It's the world. We're sloppy, the world is sloppy, but it's also incredibly magical and and and worthy of awe and and respect and That it's here is amazing that we're here is amazing and I want to live in relationship to that amazement I never looked to science to go, like, "Is murder right or wrong?" I look to science to say "How many murders were committed last week?" You know? That - that's what I want to know and then say "Is there a trend?" "What is the cause of these murders?" And then we use, you know, we use different, tools, I guess is the best way of putting it, to, to assess whether or not we should be murdering people. - Where did - where do those morals come from? - I think they're innate in humans. All societies have had certain things that agree on. A Makar, that's a religious background, and so on. We don't require a deity or any kind of religion to give us those things. And we come with them as part of our species. And for me, it's not so much that science can answer moral questions, but science certainly can guide us in a lot of ways, especially when moral questions in conflict with realities we've now learned it. - I've got serious gaps in my faith that require a supernatural answer. I mean, I can't. I can't understand and fathom the complexities of the universe all on my own. I'm a Christian. At a church service, someone had a hurt shoulder and they said "My shoulder really hurts. Will you pray for my shoulder to get better?" I'll be honest with you. I have about 5% faith that that's gonna work out. But I prayed for him. I put my hand on his shoulder and I said, you know, "I want this shoulder to get healed in Jesus name," and I walked away thinking "Oh no, another disappointed person who didn't get healed today." Well, the next morning that person called me and said "You wouldn't believe it. My shoulder feels 100 percent better." I still don't have a good answer to that. But I just know every time I get an answer or an opportunity to exercise my faith in a supernatural way, I want to take that opportunity because I just don't know what the answer might be. It could be something terrific. - I totally agree with you. I liked when you said 5% I pretty much feel the same way, yeah. But in my hometown in Japan, like, we have this kind of service to instead of consultive spirits in the line When we chant for like an hour, you know half an hour maybe then Everybody feels a whole I feel so peaceful But then can quite explain it like logically and that's the stuff That's it's efficient in that situation Science is all about understanding what we can understand and the science You're pretty much not allowed to even consider is the supernatural because it's beyond testable hypothesis It's beyond anything that you can evaluate in any- what we might call an objective manner We are comfortable with the idea that we do not know something and we say we do not know something and that some day We might find the answer, or we may not. There's a lot out there that we can't explain It has absolutely nothing to do with my beliefs I was raised Catholic and I'm just as confused now as I was then about what's really going on, you know? There is a small amount of stuff we can explain. I don't need to have a belief about it I don't even need to go beyond that just to decide that it's magnificent and terrifying all at the same time and just kind of leave it at that So I think your your answer to the question would have been yes. I mean because I think you might agree that there's Stuff that you can't even know to test Yet so- maybe there's something beyond scientific theory and proof that we don't even know yet, and I'm not saying God, If we just take God out of it, might there not be something, right, that- that your scientific beliefs can't explain. That's right, certainly But and also in my philosophy, I don't see any point in putting any kind of supernatural label on it as an explanation It's just not solving the problem I'm so glad you're with me because I didn't want it to here all by myself. I Yeah I mean , I just see purpose for our lives that extends beyond the here and now that there is an eternity that God wants to have with us, his love for us is so deep that it desires to have a continued relationship with us as As far as time goes on. Because I live in Long Beach I go down to the beach and I see the waves of the ocean At the beach they- they come ashore and leave - we compare that to life We take different shapes in different forms and the length of the wave, we have no idea. You'll show up in different locations Which you have no control The idea of this momentary shape that we have, this life and trying to preserve it You know and then we're kind of missing the whole point that we are actually that greater ocean In my limited capacity as a Individual human like in this form and this shape. I have no idea how could I possibly have any idea about what that being ocean is gonna mean or be and so I know that I will continue to be part of the universe but not as me, not as this. I would agree with that I mean, I see no evidence from anything that I can observe or anything that that goes on that it's more than just wishful thinking that humans in some form are gonna exist in some afterlife or they're recognizable and their identities carry on When I was a kid, I asked my dad Mm-hmm. If our pets would be waiting for us in heaven when we died and my dad said no and I was shocked and I was like Why would there not be pets in heaven and my dad's like well? there are animals and I'm like why not my animals and he's like well There's just like, a generic cat and a generic dog. And I went "wait, what?" and so at that point that's when I started to question. Like wait a minute what happens next? And uh- and yeah, I'm kind of you know with a lot of you guys here I'm just saying that look You know It wouldn't it be great if we could go on and on and on but I think because we don't see any evidence for it I have to be in the camp of, well we get this one shot, make the most of it, do the best you can and then when it's done, you know, don't have any regrets, you know, live with doing as much as you could that is good so that you will live on in the memories of those who stay behind. I'm so sorry your dad told you your dogs not going to heaven. What what a crushing thing to hear as a child You know all good dogs go to heaven Thats what the movie said! It must be true I think he was trying to, you know like, let me down gently. Yeah, I know. Like some days I'm like totally Zen I'm totally like solely there like it's okay. It's all one and I will just not exist I'm usually not as afraid of death as I am of dying Like I mean, I'm afraid of dying because I've seen some really bad dying I'm very afraid of pain and a you know, the process of dying I lost both my parents from cancer, so I witnessed the whole process. My mom died Over 30 years ago and It was it was painful to witness that part I mean, my mom's kind of has health deteriorate my dad went through the same process But then he was once writing letters as it just really Coincides with some Buddhist teachings that I'm having a wonderful day and really grateful for everybody who support us We have a saying that every day is As you say the greatest day I can see that, you know intellectual I can understand it intellectually but I just wasn't sure if I could I Could feel if I I would be able to say something like that if I'm put in the situation Man, I'm such a skeptic and that includes questioning my own My own beliefs, especially if I form a hypothesis, and I'm working on an experiment I mean you always kind of want it to go a certain way and you have to do your best to remove that That bias and then some a lot of times if you're in research just doesn't work one of the things I tell students because I work with students a lot with my nonprofit organization and I tell them you know as they're journeying into becoming Scientists and they come from all sorts of different backgrounds and I just say look don't ever work with anyone who's afraid to admit that They don't know something or that they're wrong Like those are really important qualities whether it's in science or any aspect of life The whole fun in being a scientist is trying to break things and I actually wanted to start a journal of scientific mistakes so that we could share with each other what went wrong because too often we only talk about the successes and I think it's very its very valuable to also know what failure is and what it teaches us the questioning. Is that such a healthy thing I always think it's a healthier thing So whenever I see younger man asks a priest like yeah Go ahead and question question me a question what you do and then be okay and you need to understand? understand intellectually But at the same time I want to understand there are things that's beyond this intellectual understanding so that's an Unrecognizable part of understanding that comes only through experience Nice to meet you. Thank you good to meet you Hey guys, this is John I'm Kendra thank you so much for watching this episode of middle ground make sure to let us know what you think in the comments below and as always please be sure to click subscribe and Watch more of our stuff. We'll see you next time
It’s easy to have rational discussions with Buddhists. Rabbis as well. Throw in a Baptist preacher or an imam and you get a very different conversation.