Black Desert Online – The Reality of Pay 2 Win | Asmongold Reacts

yeah well look at this the reality of pay to win this is the game I'm about to start playing here okay guys so this [ __ ] is is BDO dead I don't know there is a negative stigma that comes along with Black Desert since the beginning since the beginning of time and that is pay to win when you talk about Path of Exile no one in chat's gonna be like oh that pay to win garbage right obviously it's a very different game just using this as an extreme example for those of you watching on YouTube and on Twitch when you talk about Black Desert online immediately you're gonna get people in chat for example that say pay to win garbage now I know we're talking about pay to win a little bit earlier but I do want to focus on that on that subject right now in this segment let's talk about the pay to win situation Choice can you kind of walk us through one more time uh I guess a tldr version I want to know like where I can spend the money how I can spend the money how much money we're going to need to get am I gonna need to do a sponsor for raid Shadow Legends I gotta figure out like you know what are we really getting ourselves into right now and of the whole pay to win issue with Black Desert what it was like at the start and how it how that's changed if it has because I feel like there's no better person to talk about this than you and I believe you actually made a video on this I think you did a non-pay to win Journey as well Choice the floor is yours okay so I think that instead of just saying Oh no you're wrong and all of these these things that people say online are wrong is I think that it's more healthy to actually reflect on the reality that it was right like I actually think that a lot of these rumors and a lot of these like things that people say about the game are absolutely completely and utterly true yes yes all right boys we're going to be well we're going to get the best gear on the server we are getting the best year on the server all right we are good but the game has absolutely pivoted from those days a lot and a lot of those takes I feel are extremely old and outdated because you were faced with all kinds of roadblocks as a new player when you first started the game like we were talking earlier about how you you did not get free pets so you couldn't grind and you'd have to manually pick up your gear unless you wanted to spend money um silver Wade had weight uh items and trash should have way more weight which means you needed to buy a lot of weight for your character or else you had to stop every 10 minutes it had issues with you know you dropped a whole bunch of items while you're grinding instead of stacking it into boxes which means that you needed inventory slots they didn't give you Maids they didn't have like you were basically just face they didn't even give you a horse you basically just had to ride around you had to find some random tier V horse I remember when I first started the game one of the selling features of the game of the like conquerors pack was that it gave you a tier V horse because otherwise they didn't give you a horse to ride you just were like running around on foot and so there's a lot of reasons why the game had that reputation of being like yeah it's pay to win because you literally can't really enjoy it the reason why it's pay to win is you can spend money and it makes your character stronger I mean that's the reason why people think that it's pay to win like that is the generally accepted opinion incorrect can you buy costumes and can you sell costumes and can you use the currency that you sold costumes for to buy things to upgrade your gear oh isn't that interesting I wonder what you call that the game unless you're paying money to play there was an initial investment of like 300 to get all of the what most players would consider necessary um conveniences that three I would not even call them conveniences I'd call them just necessities and and so that was super prohibitive as a new player and that's where this stigma comes from but I actually think that they have fully with the exception of maybe um you know the ferry system is a little bit still a little bit um you know it needs work and the the pay to win 10 for sure needs a little bit of work but all in all they've done a really good job in making it where you can play this game without investing money for the first like six months without even feeling like you need to have a like a value pack because they even just give you that along the way and I think that I bought the uh [ __ ] 70 version of the game because I thought I would need it did I waste my money because he's talking about how it's not paid a win so I deleted my money you dumbass you should have bought the 100 one there was no 100 I bought the I bought the biggest one no you do need it okay we'll see um you can actually play this game and try this game without feeling the need to spend money and if you want to continue to play the game without spending money it's possible yeah but I definitely think that you know having a value pack active is probably the bare minimum um for just not having to only sell your items every two weeks is the value pack being active the equivalent of what the crystalline Aura is in Lost Ark yes I'm completely okay with that because that's probably a huge one too but that's kind of like a subscription cost I feel like that's a bit more fair exactly I don't care about it yeah I don't know they that's about the negative aspect of the game by the way yeah a month is what you would expect for a value pack but yeah I I started this game over again on EU I spent 60 dollars and I quite frankly I couldn't hardly tell the difference between my North American account that has every luxury in the world and this EU account that has all the election how they brought the Cosmetic cat girl in she just sits there this is just like you you know like in uh on on Tick Tock and like these other [ __ ] short form videos where like you're watching a podcast of like this guy talking about how women shouldn't vote and then below it there's like a dude that's like doing CS go surfing or is driving a car through like a uh uh like some sort of like maze in a video game realistically sixty dollars is gonna get you very far and after after that you buy a value pack every month if you really want the she's here on your convenience of that and she you can enjoy this game so successfully like you won't even feel prohibited in any way or I don't feel incentivized at all here in EU to buy anything ever because it's not it's not needed it's totally unnecessary okay Ellie what's your take on that uh I agree you know um with Choice uh about the earlier half that people do um have this idea that Black Desert online is pay to win because initially it was a very predatory game well the reason why people think it's pay to win is because there are videos of a guy that says I spent a hundred and twenty thousand dollars on Black Desert online like that is a big reason why people think it's pay to win can I know why you're at bias in your Tower fantasy interview you've typed that 10 times now I will remind you I'm never biased it doesn't happen there's nothing biased about what I said I was accurate in everything that I said it's just how it is um if you wanted to continue grinding you had to swipe for um weight and this is per character which is still a thing in the game hopefully maybe if in the future they'll alleviate the per character weight restrictions but um in in the beginning you you absolutely had to because there was no way they were giving you any like free weight any like maids they made it so easy for you to swipe in fact they threw it all in your face hey here swipe swipe swipe you want to do this more swipe swipe swipe yeah and that is a very bad way to enjoy a game so I can see why people have been left with this stigma of this game being paid to win however none of that is as strong or in your face as it was in initially um with the uh silver reduction people don't really mind if a game is pay to win as long as they can play it casually and still be able to keep up that's why games like gen impact and honkai star rail are successful that's the reason it's that you can still play them casually and keep up with people and keep up with the content if you can't do that then the game's bad and it doesn't cost silver anymore um with the free amount of free stuff they give you with um all the other ascenta um games gains you get in the game naturally just progressing inventory quests and all that I think they they've definitely made the whole pay to win thing just uh a thing in the past you can definitely progress in this game without having to swipe in the game and every time that I do have a new person that comes to ask me hey what do I need to buy in this game I'm like first of all you don't need to buy anything you have to buy them just buy the game for five dollars at a discount however it costs you'll get it for free because the game goes out for free a lot of times so you can do that um not swipe just enjoy the game enjoy the game if I had to say to somebody hey if you do want to swipe in this game this is something that you can't get in the game by any other means and that is the tent the tent is a very quality of life thing in the game and it is something that I I almost almost would say it's something that is probably needed in the game if you buy the tent do you have to re-buy the tent at periods of time it's forty dollars oh that's fine definitely enjoy the game which really sucks and I wish there was a free way to obtain this even by just logging on for like a SAT 90 days straight to acquire this item because I think it's a very important item um aside from that I think they've done a really good job at clearing the whole monetization thing I don't feel pressured to swipe I don't feel pressured to do this I don't feel pressured to do that I if I wanted to buy something I just buy outfits which can also be bought from the market board itself from other players so you have the option to buy things that other players like to spend on and put on the auction house so they can I don't know well out yeah sure but I think uh somebody is the game paid to win I don't know if that was your question um directly or talking about the monetization I don't I don't think so I think it definitely has pay to win and pay for convenient features but I don't think it's pay to win in that way I don't know I don't know one time only convenience I really really hesitate to call it pay to win because Path of Exile like that's kind of their model like I I don't really mind that very much like the type of pay to win that is problematic in my mind is the pay to win that separates a 100 player from a one thousand dollar player and that pay to win also separates a one thousand dollar player from a ten thousand dollar player like like unscaled pay to win is the worst that's a good answer no no that was it was great it was great totally um so if I may inject my my thoughts on this matter here I believe that there are two mechanics two two things that are in this game that are paid to win when I say pay to win I mean something that you can purchase that will allow you to progress your gear or your power faster because everyone has a different definition paid when let's just use that as the Baseline for the definition of pay to win uh everything else is paid a convenience and I feel like this game very much I think pay for convenience is just as bad as pay to win if it's on a consistent cycle I think one-time payments like a stash tab or like this tent thing it's not a big deal but like pay to win like oh you have to do it una's task skips oh well you have to pay for this and you get uh your [ __ ] reset on your Trailblazer power oh [ __ ] take me out of the of the [ __ ] the [ __ ] box for 10 minutes so I can play the game just to put me back in it for ten dollars oh great thank you so much just what I wanted encourages you to get paid for the convenience and it's justified by the players purchasing it because well first of all the prices are reasonable second of all you get a lot of discounts and third of all it's permanent so like once you buy this tent that these guys are talking about that is upset about permanent it's a one-time purchase and you're done it's very comparable to systems in the monetization uh well this specifically is very comparable to a game like Path of Exile which you are very much encouraged to purchase it gonna be the same as Diablo 4 soon where you're able to purchase extra character slots bag space extra store uh extra storage chest items yeah so they're not going to add that until season three though yeah that's going to be my minus five hundred dollars anybody that forgot about that I bet a guy five hundred dollars I told them I'd buy them every single thing in the blizzard shop at the time for Diablo 4 at the time or 500 whichever one uh whichever one came first and uh man bam this those those those storage slots right so when it comes to the paid convenience I feel like a lot of Black Desert online players they do try to justify it by saying it's not pay to win it's paid a convenience but it I feel like it doesn't change the fact that this game does encourage you I feel like pretty aggressively I'm not saying that's a good or bad thing by the way I think they do aggressively encourage you to pay for convenience because let's be real here hey there's a discount going on and if you buy this disc if you buy this it's definitely cringe that they do that but after you buy it you have it and that's it and Black Desert receives continuous content updates it's a live service game so like they've got to find a way to make money with the game over time if they're going to continuously develop it over time like games are not free what the [ __ ] yeah package which is like a 40 discount you also get these 20 discount codes coupons that you get that expire a week later so and discounts are great don't get me wrong but like I feel like I feel like the game certainly does encourage you to pay for convenience like what choice was saying it's no longer necessary to pay for those conveniences weight is significantly less important now than it was in the past because of just the way the game is designed you have all these Maids which are also given to you but for free you get a lot of inventory slots you make the maids cat girls for free you get you get a lot of maids for free there's a lot of things in the game now that prevent you from having to have some of these convenience items and a lot of these convenience items are given to you for free especially if you play for a long period of time pets are another example of this so for me my opinion is that there are two mechanics two things two items or two main things that back in the day the pets uh you buy a pet and it loot stuff for you it's really good or pay to win and the rest of it's paid a convenience in regards to those pay to win items I feel like that for me personally is also a non-issue because it's just simply not worth paying for those items to progress I feel like there's a reason why that the vast majority of people that truly will in this game that aren't content creators aren't streamers do it by paying Pilots to play their account to grind because that is literally the most so you see choices in doing that bro you think he's paying attention bro look at this [ __ ] reflection he's playing the game the whole time this guy literally never stopped grinding look at that he's playing the game at this exact moment on the video the efficient way to grind not to mention there are limits to how much you can purchase uh when it comes to some of these items uh I'm not encouraging that but I mean I'm just calling it what it is let's be real let's not act like people aren't doing that you shouldn't do it it's against terms of service let's not act like that doesn't exist that certainly does exist but I think that in itself is also a testament to just it being the most like you're progressing your character simply is the most efficient the efficient most efficient way to progressing your character it simply is grinding like what choice is doing right now how much are we up to right now bro I don't know man I sold my trash earlier yeah I'm not sure but no it's all good yeah got three more since the jeez man man that's like one every 10 minutes on every anyways sorry uh I thought I would throw that in there but if you're wondering what those two items are those would be Artisans and costumes that you could sell for silver so what I've done here I've written out all the items that could be considered pay to win and paid a convenience let's talk about each one individually so that the viewer can decide for themselves the value of each item so let's start with the Pay to Win items which I feel like are by definition pay to win okay starting with artisans Choice yeah can you give it to can you briefly tell us what Artisans actually I will I will I will explain what Artisans are Artisans is it is an item so in Black Desert online you upgrade your gear and when you upgrade your gear if you fail your upgrade you lose maximum durability on your item and in order to replace it on it uh [ __ ] it unlevels your item it does both oh oh [ __ ] bro you can prevent that now oh okay cool the maximum durability the durability on your item because obviously if the durable ability goes to zero it's unusable yeah you have to use something called a memory fragment doesn't matter what the name is you just have to use an item that repairs the maximum durability and Artisans allow you to repair five times the amount one memory fragment would be one uh would be one durability the using Artisan would give you five durability per memory fragment so you're it's good you're using less memory fragments to repair your gear allowing you to to uh enhance more right choice can you enhancing is honing by the way for anybody doesn't know enhancing literally honing to us about Artisans like what is this a Pay to Win thing why does it not matter if it doesn't matter it doesn't matter break this down for us Okay so I think that cronstones like the ability to purchase costumes and Artisans definitely both of them I think are pay to win now the the big question here becomes in the whole pay to win discussion to me has always been how is this actually affecting your gameplay as a player and the reason why I I don't necessarily think that it matters that people can pay to win is what is it that you are really missing out on by not being a high gear score player in this game like will you be able to have better gear and do more damage right I mean like I don't know I feel like I feel like that's the main reason you can still do node Wars and Siege you can still do almost absolutely everything that a non -geared player can do in the game except for red battlefields that is like one of the only things even open world you can just go on a season server and do open PVP through season so to me the whole discussion around pay to win is okay if the definition is can I pay for power to get stronger in this game absolutely but you're not winning anything by doing it this game is honestly very solo oriented and there are alternatives for every piece of content so it's paid when okay yeah it makes sense I mean the thing is like if even if a game is solo oriented you can still like is honkai star rail pay to win yeah yeah except red battlefields that you can enjoy the game without needing gear so therefore I just don't really see the need and that's why it's something that never really comes up is that most players are kind of playing their own game in Black Desert uh everybody keeps saying a lot of the time in these videos that I watch on YouTube they're like oh man this is a force PVP game so it'll flag up on you and and die and that's why it's so pay to win I haven't been flagged up on in Black Desert in like you know how long like how how often does this happen and if it does happen you just hop one channel and it's never gonna happen again for three months it's like it doesn't really that type of thing doesn't really occur and so to me the question can you pay absolutely are you winning what are you winning like what do you what are you able to do with that that you weren't able to do that really matters in relation to another player so like I don't I just don't think that other people I mean like I I think this is kind of a bad argument personally I think that uh if it if it's pay to win then it's pay to win and the game wouldn't be designed that way think about it right from the developer's perspective the developer wants people to buy these things in the store because if they didn't want people to buy them they wouldn't be in the store so in the developer's mind there is an incentive for an individual to buy these things the game is designed in a way to make people want to buy them but winning what though being able to kill monsters faster so in open world PVP does your gear matter so that means if somebody that spent a lot of money they would have better gear and they'd have an advantage like I I mean I feel like that's I I feel like that's pay to win what he's saying is that if Elon Musk plays this game and swipe 750 gear score he'd still lose the choice is what he's saying that doesn't matter that that's silly because of course that's true of course a player who is really really good is going to beat somebody who's really really bad and pay to win but if two equal players are go out and they fight each other and the person who spent a thousand dollars has an advantage then it's pay to win like of course of course one of the best players can beat someone who's never played the game before that's silly spending money on this game has any effect on me whatsoever so I it's just not really something that's thought about by me or I don't think by many BDO players quite frankly I actually like when people spend money so I can progress my character by buying their costumes off the market like it's more of a solo thing right so um I'm gonna let you give your opinion here LA but I do want to actually just knock out both of these items the The Artisans that I just spoke about and these costumes uh for those of you who aren't aware you can buy costumes in the cash shop you're limited correct me if I'm wrong you're limited to 35 costumes per week that you can purchase and sell on the market I think also um like I'll play it and see for myself but we'll see what we'll see what's going to happen but like I I understand that like people think that oh it doesn't matter that much that's fine if like it doesn't matter that much but it is still pay to win Place uh each costume will sell for about roughly I think you could average it to about a billion silver some sell for Less is about a billion guys like 842 million 840 million okay it's just under a billion silver you can sell it for we need to buy them keep in mind choice just grinded if you heard what he grinded how much he did he's already made twice that put that into perspective that's kind of what I meant earlier uh and you could also melt the costumes what do I mean by that you could just essentially turn the costume into an item called KRON Stones KRON stones are items that give you protected enhancement so if I want to go from uh second to highest level to the highest level by enhancing my gear it allows me to go for that attempt but not downgrade my gear because you can downgrade your gear if you fail attempts in Black Desert online now the cross the silver that you can make on a week to week basis is not limited however or excuse me it is limited to 35 sales a week but the KRON stones are not limited you can buy as many costumes as you want and get as many crosses as you want KRON stones are also very much purchasable in game it's the main way people purchase them outside of the free ones that you get you'll get a lot of free ones you can simply buy these Crown Stones as well for what was the price per KRON Stone like a million two million in the armor two million per KRON stone that is the system uh well wait it's 2 million that ain't [ __ ] that's like a dollar right I mean like uh you need a lot but how many do you need three thousand oh oh thirty thousand you need three thousand six hundred oh wow three thousand six hundred Ellie floor is yours yeah well I um agree heavily with choice that um you're not really winning at anything there is like there is no end game right the end game is PVP and when you get to that in-game it's all equalized so like what are you really winning I think you're winning as long if you can do more damage you're winning it's that simple in my mind if you can buy something that makes your character do more damage you're winning yeah if you decide but the the the the whole game isn't though like PVP isn't the whole game so like that's not the It is Well if it's the whole game then why they make an expansion based on Boss Rush down that route um okay the simple answer is this game Pay to Win by definition of everybody around you know who's swiped in the game yes game you can swipe for power [ __ ] that is the thing in this game but I honestly don't see how in Black Desert that affects anybody you just described the 35 item limit cronstone that you can list if somebody does decide to swipe that's this limit weekly it would take them a year in like four to six months to get to 730 gear score if somebody is willing to swipe that much go have fun enjoy your game like you deserve to enjoy it go pay to win that is a long time to get any to see fruit of your labor if that's the right quote like that is so so much time and and yeah you could go the other route where you can uh I guess infinitely swipe for KRON stones to melt but I also think that that's a pretty stupid way to do it it's you're not guaranteed anything where you're swiping for that at like a two to five percent chance to enhance something you're talking about somebody spending over like ten thousand dollars easily within their first month that is crazy and I think that those people that do that are at the very small portion of who even plays this game I don't think those players are like I think those are like a handful of players not even a lot of players so in short yes the game is pay to win Point Blank it is you can pay for power okay but I mean it has never affected my game it has never affected my play time and I'd be very very surprised if it would affect anybody in the game gotcha okay that's the big one right there is it just has really other people paying in this game doesn't have an effect and there aren't really many um I actually have a bit of stats from when I made my pay to win uh video and it's that around 11 000 costumes um were sold in a say a given I think it was two week period which means that around 300 people maxed out their costume order assuming all of those were done through so there's 300 winners you know one person each sold 30 35 each it would be 300 people worth of actual pay to win in a week to week basis out of how many you know 300 several thousand players like I don't know tens of thousands hundred thousand I don't know how many kids it's all very it's hidden it's hidden to know how many people really play video but it's a very small minority you would have to spend fifty dollars an hour by the time you're an endgame player to replace an hour of grinding is really what it comes down to and so even then that's actually a really good metric I really appreciate that metric that's a very useful metric really doing like you're you're supposed to be progressing and playing a game for fun yeah that power doesn't do anything other than yeah you make a little extra money per hour but right that's all solo stuff right it doesn't just doesn't have an effect like I think if you can ever buy something that's like an advantage over somebody else it's [ __ ] pay to win that's it especially if it's expensive like that um runs 100k um that sounds like a good idea to lose money

Channel: Asmongold TV

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Keywords: asmongold, asmongold reacts, asmongold wow, asmongold highlights, asmongold youtube, world of warcraft, asmongold funny, asmongold tv, asmongold channel, ZackRawrr

Id: 9D22r6f1760

Length: 31min 28sec (1888 seconds)

Published: Mon Jul 17 2023