Ben Shapiro Clarifies Gay Marriage Stance | Joe Rogan

so the other thing is uh same-sex marriage so the other thing that i think that we disagree with well i we agree with the marriage thing right government should be involved i think where people should be protected is through assets and you know the contract yes i think that that all makes sense to me all that stuff in terms of like alimony and child support and all those things make sense to me and that then the idea that the community reinforces it which would then become the government reinforced and all that stuff that all makes sense to me i understand it but um why do you care if uh two gay guys want to get married um so from a religious point of view sure let's go from a legislation so so i mean why would a secular point of view first so the the idea is not that i care deeply whether two gay guys want to get married to each other the idea is that do i prefer traditional marriage to to same-sex marriage okay well let me let me phrase it this way what do you think a gay guy is do you think someone's they're making a choice or do you think that this is how they were born so the religious point of view on this and and i think this is actually just the general conservative point of view on human action generally is i don't know meaning that for the vast majority of people i would assume that they have a biological drive to engage in in that behavior but the traditional sort of will point of view is that biological drive does not necessarily match up to the activity you ought to engage in right men for example have a biological drive to impregnate many women that's not something religion is cool with either right so the the idea is that right but religion is cool with a man being with one woman and impregnating her but you're not cool with a man being with a man so i can give you the religious explanation and i can give you the secular explanation so the so the religious explanation is that there is something different about a woman than there is about a man and a man is made better through his union with a woman and that if you pervert the sex drive to pursue mere pleasure instead of a lasting relationship upon which the basis of society is built then you are foregoing the proper use of your sex drive right because if you wanted to step in and argue against that you would say that just because someone can't get pregnant doesn't mean that they don't have a loving relationship that contributes to society well that's true but it is also foregoing the more productive relationship of being able to bear and we're children and also and also recognizing that the sexes are not different right and and recognizing also the sexes are not the same so you know being with a man is in a relationship different than being with a woman i would assume i mean i assume that's why gay guys are gay if it weren't then i assume that they would be fine with being with a woman right so that's so that relationship from a from a religious perspective is more valuable because women have different qualities than men you round off each other's harsh edges it changes you i mean you're married being married changes a man in a different way that being married to a member of the same sex would right but i don't want people to have to do it but if you're not forcing anybody right but i want them to have the option and if you're a gay person and we just say no no i mean of course because legally we agree right yeah legally and i keep making this distinction because whenever i talk about my moral perspective on things then people immediately assume that i'm a theocratic fascist and i just want to keep underscoring like my personal views on dave rubin's marriage are of no consequence to public policy in any way whatsoever right but i i agree with you on that and i don't think it should be a part of public policy and i think people should absolutely be allowed to marry and divorce and do whatever the [ __ ] they want to do no matter who it is but why do you care like as a person who's a rational thinker it's pretty clear that people are gay and i don't really think that this is a decision they make in term in terms of like i'm going to make a clear choice to defy god and be gay i think they're just gay well again i think that's a conflation it gets everyone it's a conflation of identity and drive with activity which is something that religion fundamentally reject okay right so religion fundamentally rejects the idea that you are driven to do something therefore it is your identity therefore you get to participate in a behavior that's it that's a chain of thinking that religion so in religion if a man is gay in your religion if a man is gay and they're in love with another man they should just squash those thoughts and find a woman well ideally they would be honest with the woman they married so they're not like messing about they would want to ideally ideally you would still get married and have children in a heterosexual relationship if you're not up to that then you wouldn't get married at all too when you describe this to a gay man they will tell you imagine ben shapiro if someone said to you you should stop being with your beautiful wife and you need to now marry a man because this is what god wants you to do so you're going to have to stoop this man and he's going to stop you and because this is how the rules are set up yeah so far this sounds pretty terrible right well this is how it sounds to gay folks when you're telling them they have to find a woman and like i like one i'm not saying you have to find a woman i'm saying well i'm saying you can't do x right i'm not saying you must say you can't but by whose determination if you decide to participate in this religion right then there is a buy-in to the precepts of the religion and the buy-in is no the buy-in is that you can have whatever sexual orientation you please but there's certain activity you can't participate in so you can be gay but you can't have gay sex correct that's that by the way that's what the bible i mean if we want to go direct to the text of the bible that's what the bible actually says right i mean even the parts of the bible that people really hate those parts say that a man shall not lie with a man it doesn't say a man can't be attracted to another man that's old testament right yeah that's right that's our stuff right new testament that it gets a little harsher in the new testament in some places romans korea yeah but in any case you know again when it comes to this is what i'm puzzled by is the idea that this is a unique area of human behavior that religion is supposed to treat differently meaning religion treats virtually every human activity like this sin is a failure to abide by a covenant right that's that's the definition of sin right right when when you commit a sin in judaism and aveira in judaism what you are doing is failing to do a mitzvah which is a commandment you're violating a commandment well there are lots of commandments that go directly against what people are driven to do just because the drive is stronger does not make it morally more morally non-culpable to violate that commandment so when people pick this one out and they say well this one is particularly intolerant for example i don't see why it's more particularly intolerant than saying to a man that you have to marry one woman or saying to a jew that you are not allowed to eat this stuff or like it's it may be harder i don't think there's any question it's harder to abide by those commandments but it is well within religious tradition like literally every religious tradition that there's a bunch of stuff you are driven to do that you can now again you don't have to agree with my program i'm not trying to convert you this is one of nice things about my religion i don't give a crap whether people are jewish or not like we we actively discourage converts but if you're going to proclaim that you are you know abiding by traditional judaism this is the buy-in right there's lots of buy and you have to wear a funny hat sometimes you have to you have to go to school on saturdays you have to keep shabbat like there's there's a lot of buy-in and as long as i'm not bothering anybody else i frankly don't see what business it is of legitimately anybody's what i think about personal relationships i'm not imposing my view on anybody else well um i i do acknowledge that out of all the religions judaism probably makes it the the most obvious they don't give a [ __ ] what you do go ahead do your thing like they're not trying to pronounce it you're doing your business my uncle converted and uh when he converted it was a grind man he had to learn a lot of [ __ ] like three years of a grind a long time yeah for sure it's a long time so that was the religious perspective and the secular perspective when it comes to valuing traditional marriage over over same-sex marriage that's a very simple calculation which is one type of marriage produces traditional children it produces children in the traditional biological way and then you have both parents in the house to take care of the kid right that's the value of marriage and i fully acknowledge that when the value of marriage shifted from it's about production and rearing of children to it's two people who love each other the case for same-sex marriage against same-sex marriage went completely out the window right so you are just sticking to your rigid ideology in terms of like what you believe to be a sin and not believe to be a sin based on your religion based on this very strict moral fiber that this religion is operating in a religious context meaning it applies to me it applies to my family it doesn't apply to you right but is there any room for growth in that when people have a better understanding about biology like it so if it was proven if there's proven like oh this is why a person develops blue eyes this is why a person is gay this is why there's nothing wrong with it it's just a very no it's red hair it's freckles it's gay it's strange you can tell me that homosexual orientation is 100 biologically driven and i will almost completely agree with that i think that there are some cases where it's not but those are rare but this is particularly true by the way the research tends to show that there's more sexual fluidity among females than males males it tends to be either heterosexual or homosexual that research is all done by dudes who want their wives to hook up with chicks keep going don't let me stop you but honey let me just show you the paperwork but something's wrong but again that it's a question that i've always found actually not particularly interesting simply because it doesn't take into account the world view generally which is that a biological drive does not equal excuse for behaving in a certain way but but this that's where it brings me back to this like is it possible that these laws in this religion were written when they're what i mean who do you think wrote the stuff do you think people wrote the stuff or do you think god wrote this i think either way even if it were i mean because i am a an orthodox jew i believe that at the very least it's god inspired and god written right but even if i believed on a secular level that human beings were at that stuff so i think that people 3000 years ago had never seen a gay person before like the very reason to have a commandment is because certain people in your community are behaving in a particular way presumably right there's no commandment not to take your head and shove it into me grinder well this is also the argument against pork it's because they didn't understand trichinosis they understand you have to cook the meat to 145 degrees and pork parasites which are very dangerous for people so i'm not a huge fan of naturalistic explanations for religion do you think that's a good one though for pork i mean i don't know like i think you could make an argument maybe that kid just died in india and there was horrific x-rays of his head he had parasites from pork that had gotten into his body and they had nested in his brain started developing all these cysts inside of his head and they couldn't do anything about it because it was so deep in his head that if they gave him the anti anti-parasitic uh medication it would cause swelling of the brain and they were like it was it was so how you feel about so far it's actually pig [ __ ] apparently people accidentally coming in contact with pig [ __ ] produces this particular type of parasite yeah that's not kosher it's more rare but but trichinosis was pretty common again their attempts to sort of paint back into the bible certain rationalistic explanations like doesn't that make sense though um i i think why else would you would it be bad to eat pigs like jesus loves pigs is that what's going on uh well i i think that the the reversal of the kosher laws in the new testament you know from from a jewish point of view where we don't believe in the divinity of christ i think that there he can make an argument that the the gospels which were written he was just a prophet and significant no no we don't even believe he's a prophet what do you think he was what do you guys i mean what i what do i think he was historically i think he was a jew who tried to lead a revolt against the romans and got killed for his trouble just like a lot of other jews at that time who were crucified for trying to lead revolts against the roman and got killed for their trouble so he became legend in story and it became a bigger and bigger deal as time was yeah he had a group of followers and then that gradually grew and then do you think it was resurrected no that's not that's not a jewish belief okay i just want to check yeah no we're we're not into you know we're not in the miracle stories no that's that's no you don't have any miracles no not not by jesus right there they're ones in the old testament yeah you've got moses splitting the sea and all that what do you think happened there what do i think happened there yeah well i'll go with the maimonidean explanation that there was i mean it says in the bible there was a strong east wind so there's a naturalistic explanation for a physical phenomenon that makes sense i mean that's so that's what my manatee is constantly trying to do is read nature back into the bible um yeah that that is the problem with these texts right is that you're trying to decipher translations from original texts which were written in ancient hebrew thousands of years ago and were told in an oral tradition for longer than that right i mean this is this is where you know my my book which i always hesitate to pitch my own stuff because it sounds gauche pitch away but the new book the right side of history number one new york times best-selling non-fiction book wait a minute you got number one in the new york times best-selling reality yeah we sold enough that we knocked michelle obama out of the number one slot for a week so that's nice is there a protest uh well no protests yet but suffices to say the new york times book reviewer didn't like it but i'm not super shocked by that but the the basic contention that i make is that judeo-christian values on the one hand and then human reason on the other greek reason really that that tradition is a tension and that that tension is where western civilization lives that basically civilization is a suspension bridge it takes certain fundamental precepts of judeo-christian values on the one hand and then takes greek reason and they're pulling against each other and sometimes reason feels like it's going to dominate religion and sometimes it feels like religion is going to dominate reason but in the best of all available worlds you have a bridge that is that is capable of building upon that where you can actually have a functional civilization and if you lose reason in the name of theocracy then you end up with tyrannical theocracy and if you lose and if you lose religion in the name of reason you end up in some pretty dark places because human beings don't have a very good track record of creating their own purpose creating their own meaning creating their own systems we tend to get very utopian very quickly and things get really ugly which is sort of the story of the particularly the first half of the 20th century so this is the benefit of sticking to the rigid ideology that's prescribed by religion is that you don't allow the human beings to keep updating it and changing it because if you do they will eventually slide into chaos well yes but there's there which is not to say there's not play in the joints right i mean there's certainly religion has morphed over time judaism as it was practiced originally probably in many ways does not resemble judaism as practice now right in fact the talmud even says this i mean there's this kind of fascinating and counterintuitive section of the talmud where um moses is it's it's uh what is called the godita which is some of these stories that are just kind of put into the into the middle of the talmud where moses comes back and he's watching from on high as a bunch of rabbis in you know 2nd century palestine are are talking about judaism and he's like i don't recognize any of this stuff like i brought down these books from the mountain and i do not recognize any of this stuff and and god says to him you know god says to him right i mean this is how this is morphed and moses is pleased in other words he he's not judaism has always had a common law tradition where you're using reason to try and develop the ideas behind the commandments and then try and extend them or broaden them and i think that's a good thing but you have to be careful not to completely undermine fundamental roots or or get rid of basic precepts in other words you have to you have to acknowledge there are certain fundamental truths that exist there and then there's play as far as how those are implemented does judaism have one of those pray the gay away traditions no that's not that's not a thing i mean it's what do they want guys to do like what say what would you do if not not not to sin but again sin is a sin is a thing that everybody does meaning that masturbation is not is not okay according to judaism i assume that a vast majority of young jewish men even the orthodox are masturbating so people sin i mean that's that's a recognition it's it's always again i think i can speak on behalf of i will audaciously speak i have both using christians here i think that religious people are are told that when they say that something is a sin this means that they are looking a scant at the people who are committing the sin and that is not correct i mean what judaism and christianity say is that we are all committing sins on a fairly regular basis where we get uptight is when people start saying because i have a desire for the sin the sin is no longer a sin hmm yeah the the real problem is like what why is it a sin like who says it's a sin so again who again this these rules you were assuming are influenced by god right but clearly written by people well the this one you would say if you're a fundamentalist or at least somebody who believes in the the idea that the torah was given by god was given literally by god but again that doesn't the the logic behind the rules which you know people like maimonides have tried to explicate the idea is as i said a secular this you can do without god right this part you can do without god the human sex drive was made to procreate within a stable relationship in order to progenerate and have future generations of people misuse of that sex drive in any way whether you're talking about from masturbation to homosexual activity is therefore a diminishment of the use of that drive that's the natural law case against against homosexual activity and again i will reiterate for media matters for the one millionth time i'm not in favor of any of this being encoded into american law because freedom is freedom people should be able to sin how they choose so long as they're not harming anybody else right no but what about people that have had vasectomies and what about women that also judaism is not cool with vasectomies not cool with it but neither is catholicism from what i understand right right yeah well i'm not a big fan of that one either that one i have more experience with but uh so if what if a man is sterile and the woman sterile are they allowed to have sex does they both know so yes because there are ancillary benefits to married couples having sex like relationship building but that's not a generalized case against the favored view of sex right that's that's sort of like arguing that intersex people mean that there's no such thing as two separate sexes there are two separate sexes and also they're intersex people who have a condition yes right and that's the same thing here the case in favor of heterosexual sexual activity does not change based on the fact that some people can't actually participate in that what would you do if a young gay guy came to you for advice if someone said hey ben i'm an admirer of yours i love the way you think and follow your philosophies but i've i've got a problem i'm a young jewish man and i'm gay and i don't know what to do what would you tell them to do i mean i can't tell them to do anything right would you advise would you tell would you tell them to not act out on those feelings i would say you do the best you can as a human being and from my moral perspective you try to avoid sin as best you can but everybody sins the problem is that sin though it seems to me that it was defined by people that didn't understand biology because they were dealing with humans that existed thousands of years ago again i really i think a real understanding of why people are gay i mean again i really don't think that biblical commandments are linked and religious commandments generally are linked to a view of biology meaning that you don't think so no i think that all sin is a recognition that we have drives that we are supposed to forego okay that's pretty much i mean that's that's fundamental to certainly judaism it's to christianity as well i would say islam even has has this basic precept right when i think we can agree that there's some real benefits to discipline there's real benefits to having structure and and it doesn't mean that you can't be creative it doesn't mean that you can't be free and do whatever you want some of the time too but i think we can both agree that this is one of the one of the best benefits of an ideology and one hopefully a positive ideology right and one of the things that i the reason i keep coming back to the governmental regulation point is because my view is that if your view of discipline is not my view discipline good on you right like go do what you want to do like i've never had a conversation with dave rubin about about him being a gay guy right but you did say that you like wouldn't go to his marriage right well i said right as a religious person i can't say i i can't actively participate in something that i consider to be a sin but i would go out to dinner with dave and his husband anytime like my wife and i would do that of course we'd have him over to our house with his husband there's no you don't find any contradiction between your religious perspective and your personal perspective in that regard that you would you wouldn't be there for religious reasons but that you would be there for personal reasons like if it wasn't would you go to the after party like if you wouldn't go to the wedding would you go to the after party anything that was a celebration of same-sex marriage no wow so anything but even go to the party no i mean is it and that's it if the next day would you consider it you know it's it's it and again like i'm not sure why i'm not a good party person so i'm not sure why anybody would want me at their party frankly i haven't been to a party with you but i went to a dinner party with you that's true we had a great time yeah that was a good time that's good that's a funny picture man that is why people don't know what the [ __ ] to think about that picture that is certainly true eric and jordan sam you and i it's like what all the white supremacists in one place right yeah all the

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Id: nmihGvY8NIk

Length: 21min 18sec (1278 seconds)

Published: Wed Apr 03 2019

Reddit Comments

[u/Dzotshen]

~Writes book on universities indoctrinating youth and brainwashing them

~Fails to see hypocrisy and irony of his own religious indoctrination and brainwashing

[u/3DXYZ]

Been Shapiro is a pathetic joke.

[u/spattybasshead]

I feel like I accidentally pressed the x1.5 speed button when I listen to Ben talk...

[u/MikeyTheGoblinKing]

This is the first time I've heard that guy speak. I didn't like it.

[u/willbo2013]

I loathe Shapiro. That being said, I think it's long overdue for Rogan to start getting heat for giving these assholes a platform in the first place. Rogan is so married to his centrism it's almost laughable.