Air Traffic Control
versus Pilots Nobody cleared you
through the bravo but me. Then clear me through. No. Yes. **** Coming up! Hey, 74 crew! Welcome back! If you don't know me,
my name is Kelsey. I'm a 747 pilot. My channel 74 gear
is all about aviation. After the first Air Traffic Control
versus Pilots video did so well I got a bunch of messages
from people asking if I could explain other interactions
between pilots and Air Traffic Control. All right! Let's get into it. 3927 declaring an emergency
turning around direct Kahului airport N3927 enter left
base runway five. I need vectors right now 927. 3927 left turn direct
maui VORTAC I need a vector sir 927 927 turn the left heading 140 Left 140 927 927 go ahead with the
nature of your emergency I'm in a spiral descent in
rain and turbulence 927 Okay so you're not experiencing
mechanical, it's weather-related That's affirmative 927. Give
me that vector one more time 3927 fly heading 090 Left turn 090. You
want it left or right? N3927 fly heading 090 left turn 090 left turn, we're at
4000' in a hard descent 927 For those of you
that aren't pilots, there's a lot of
terminology being used here so I wanna clear them
up for you very quickly. Declaring an emergency. 3927 declaring an emergency It usually means you
have a major problem and they're going to give
you a bunch of attention to help you get down
on the ground safely. Left base. N3927 enter left
base runway five. This just means the direction
of coming on the airport. If you're on a left
base or a right base, it just means it's the final
turn before you turn inbound. You're 90 degrees from the
landing direction of the runway. So you can be on a
left base or a right base. But it just means you have one more
turn and then you're lined up to land. Vectors. I need a vector, sir. this means you're
asking Air Traffic Control to give you a heading,
a certain direction, so if you need to fly East,
you would get a heading of 090 Vortac Direct maui VORTAC Imagine you lived
on this massive farm and your house was on the
middle of that massive farm. And you were out
30 minutes away. And the instructor said:
"Go directly to your house". That would be kind
of like using a Vortac. And if you had something
on your plane that gave you the heading
that you needed to go to get to your house that would basically
be what a Vortac is. It just gives you a direction
to fly towards something. A lot of times that Vortac might
be in the middle of an airport. So if you have it in
the middle of the airport and you're a little bit
lost, you could say: "I need to go
directly to that Vortac" and that will, at least, get
you going towards the airport. Or if you're on that big farm, you
go directly towards your house. It's the same concept. I'm guessing from some of the
things that this pilot has said so far that they're not a
very experienced pilot. But it's always better to play it
safe and get back on the ground. Than to get way
outside your comfort zone and outside what you
think your capabilities or your plane's capabilities
are to handle what's out there. Some of the things that
he said led me to believe he's an inexperienced
pilot like this one. I'm in a spiral descent in
rain and turbulence 927 If you fly into a rainstorm
and you want to get out of it, you'd be better, as you hit it, to just
turn around and going away from it. But what he's doing is spiraling
down underneath the rainstorm. That doesn't make any sense. If you fly into something
that you don't want to be in, the best thing
to do is do a 180. Go back the other way. Not circle down beneath it. And then he said this: We're at 4000 feet
in a hard descent 927. If you've been on the
channel a long time, you know on that Hollywood versus
Reality that I did on "Air Force One", the guy said they were
coming in "Red hot". That's kind of like saying: "We're
in a hard descent at 4,000 feet" To me, a hard descent is doing
10,000 feet a minute or more. That to me, is a hard descent. He's at 4,000 feet which means if he was in a hard descent,
he's going to be hitting the water in less than 30 seconds. I'm guessing that he
was probably at a 1,000 or maybe 1,500 feet a
minute in his descent. And to his experience, that
may have felt like a hard descent. But Air Traffic Control can
see exactly where you're at, and the speed that
you're descending. You don't need to tell them what
type of hard descent you're in. So based off of those
few things that he said and everything
that's going on so far, I'm guessing that he's an
amateur pilot which is totally fine. You got to learn somehow, and the only way to learn
is to go out there and do it. Obviously, he must
have enough experience to be able ready
to fly into the clouds and maybe he challenged himself. He realized he
got in over his head He said: "Okay, I'm
way over my head. Let me get out of this". I'm not here to bash him or talk about what
he did wrong here but I just want to
kind of lay it out so we know what
we're dealing with. And I think what we're dealing
with is a pilot that's probably new or definitely an amateur
in the world of aviation. All right, let's see the
next part of this video. N3927 affirmative
4000 fly heading 090 090 3927 N3927 ATIS information
is Charlie and I assume you want to do the
ILS approach runway 2 I need vectors for a visual 927 N3927 the Kahului airport 2 o'clock
10 miles the Kahului airport insight Negative contact 927 N3927 report the
Kahuliui in sight when able Wilco 927 N3927 advice you
have information Charlie Working on Charlie 927 HCF approach 927 N3927 go ahead Airport in sight
off my 3 o'clock there are some clouds between us
but I currently have the beacon insight N3927 cleared visual approach
runway two enter right downwind A few more quick
explanations here. He says he has
information Charlie. Working on Charlie 927 About every hour, the
weather at the airport updates. If the weather's really
bad, it might update quicker. But instead of saying: "Do you have
the weather from 30 minutes ago?" They give each update a name. So you have Charlie,
Delta, Echo, and so on. So he is saying: "Do you
have information Charlie?" Do you have the current weather that's
happening over the airport right now. The next thing to know, and this
is important for later on in the video, is the pilot says he doesn't want to
do the ILS. He wants to do the visual. I need vectors for a visual 927 If you aren't familiar
with what an ILS is, it's the way that pilots fly
through clouds to land in an airport. Instrument Landing System. I made a video
about it a while back. It's kind of boring to
be honest with you but imagine it's the tools that we
use to fly through the clouds. If you've ever flown
through the clouds and then you come out like a few
hundred feet off the ground, that's what we're using to
get down onto the ground. He's saying: "No,
no. I don't want that. Just get me to the airport.
I'll see it and I'll go and land". Right after this, is when
things start to heat up. Remember, he said he wanted a
visual approach to the runway there, and he says now that he has
the airport at his three o'clock. Which if you think about it like a clock,
it means it's off his right-hand side. And so he's saying:
"I see the airport" and earlier he requested a
visual for landing at that airport. Also it's important to remember that the controller
offered him to use an ILS to fly through that
approach through the clouds. The controller offered him that and
he said: "No, no. I want the visual" All right. Listen to this part. That's not helping me very much. Give me a vector give me an
altitude to fly and I'll fly it 927 Ya. You know what
I don't understand You told me you got the
airport in sight and now you're asking me for
vectors. Which one is it? I declared an emergency. I told
you I had got the beacon insight and there's clouds
between us so it's intermittent give me a vector give
me an altitude 927 Do you have the airport
inside or not? Which one is it? I don't anymore Okay 3927 cancel your approach clearance,
maintain 4000 feet turn right heading 140 Right 140, four
thousand feet 927. 3927 check your altitude.
I'm showing 37000 feet that's an incorrect altitude.
Maintain four thousand feet You can hear that the
controller is now getting irritated because the pilot is basically
giving him mixed signals. He's saying: "I want a visual
approach. I see the airport". "Okay, now I want you to
give me vectors to get there" So he's getting a
little bit irritated now. If you tell a controller
that you want a visual approach and
that you see the airport, that tells the controller: "I'm going
to go land at that airport. I can see it" Listen to what happens next. I'm climbing to 4000 right now Listen I declared the emergency.
Take a deep breath get me out of it. N3927 maintain 4000 feet Maintaining 4000 927 N3927 let me know if you see
the airport 1 o'clock seven miles Wilco, thank you sir N3927 Roger 927 with the airport in sight Be advised there are layers of clouds
both above and below my altitude, 927. Him saying "Listen",
when he says that Listen I declared the emergency. If you've had a
girlfriend and you're saying: "Hey! Stop being
crazy and calm down" It's kind of like that. The fact that he's
telling the controller that he has clouds above
him is totally irrelevant. It doesn't matter. You're not
going up, you're going down. So, he's saying you have clouds
below you. It doesn't matter. You see the airport or
you don't see the airport? If you're ever in this
situation and you tell the controller that
you have the airport, they're going to
expect that it's over to you now to get yourself
down on that runway. So if you don't feel comfortable
to do that, then don't do that. I've had it in a 747
where it's a very clear day, calm, beautiful,
not a lot of traffic, and the controller
will tell you: "Hey! The airport's right there
at one o'clock. Do you see it?" And they want to clear you
for a visual approach there. I've had pilots say: "No, I don't want to be cleared
for the visual". We don't say that but you just say: "No,
I don't see the runway" and what that means
is under the controller's responsibility to
get you lined up lower and closer to the
runway until you see it. Once that you say:
"Yes, I see the airport" They're kind of
hands-off. It's over to you. So they're kind of passing
that responsibility onto you. If the pilots don't feel comfortable
or don't want the responsibility of it, then they say:
"No, I don't see it" even if they do see it,
they say "No, I don't see it" and then the controller goes: "Okay, I'll
get you lower and closer to the airport until you do see it". If he told the controller:
"I need your help. Get me a little bit lower.
Get me a little bit closer. I'm a little bit nervous
and flustered." I'm sure that the controller would
have done everything to help him out. Instead, he's giving a
little bit of a bad attitude, and then in return, you
can hear the attitude that the controller is
giving back to him like: "You're not maintaining
the proper altitude" That's what's gonna happen. So there's really no reason
for him to flex on that controller and the controller's
obviously irritated. I mean. They're in Hawaii. Relax, bro. All right! Let's
see the next video. For this next video,
it's important to understand something
about the terminology. In aviation, the whole world is
covered in different types of airspace. There's Alpha airspace and
Bravo airspace and Charlie airspace. But this Bravo
airspace is what they're going to talk about
in this next clip here. Bravo airspace is the airspace
that's around a major airport and your typical small little pilot
usually can't come into that airspace. Because there's big jets that
are in there, we're flying fast, and we can't have a small
Cessna crossing in the middle or messing up when
you got 400 people on board. So they kind of have
this sectioned off airspace for the big
boys to come in and out. That's Bravo airspace. This doesn't mean that you can
never go through Bravo airspace because it's something that you have
to do as you go through flight school. Now, he's going to fly into
Las Vegas Bravo airspace. Now, I did my private
pilot flying out in Vegas. That airspace, they usually
don't let people go into it. I got to go through it once. I remember it like
it was yesterday. I was so excited hearing
all the planes talking, and all the big jets and all the
airliners going in there and I was like: "Oh my gosh! One day I'm
going to be able to do that" but I know because I
asked, I don't know, 30 times and I only got permission
to go through one time. I know that they don't let a
lot of planes go through there. So listen up. This guy goes into the
Bravo airspace without permission. 1NR I need you
outside of the bravo Negative Negative what? I'm inside You were not giving a clearance through
the bravo. 1NR exit the bravo immediately I've been talking to you the whole time.
That's the whole point of talking to you You have to have a bravo clearance.
You have to request a bravo clearance I requested a bravo
clearance about 15 miles ago Nobody cleared you
through the bravo but me Then clear me through No Yes **** She's being an as... That's
not appropriate language Southwest 779 traffic
12 o'clock 4 miles it's a Cessna Centurion
descending out of 4700 inside the bravo
without a clearance Okay we're looking Southwest 779 I've asked for a
clearance multiple times N1NR I've told you to
remain outside the bravo 1NR possible pilot deviation advice
you contact Las Vegas approach at I'll give you the number
when you're ready to copy. Not ready to copy, I'm flying. 1NR Henderson tower Henderson tower 1NR This is what entitlement sounds
like when it comes to aviation. This guy felt like because
he requested permission, he was now cleared to go into it even
though he wasn't granted permission. She actually starts to roast
him a little bit by mentioning that he's in that airspace
without permission. And a normal pilot would say:
"Oh, man! I really messed up" and changed his attitude. But not this guy. Now, as he got into this
airspace, had he said: "Oh! ma'am. I misunderstood. I thought it
was cleared into this airspace" "I'm heading this heading
and getting out of the airspace" "I apologize. I misunderstood". Had he said something like that? It probably wouldn't have
been too big of a deal. He may have gotten violated but it
wouldn't have made it onto this series, and he would have probably
gone into not a lot of trouble. People make mistakes, pilots
make mistakes. It's part of life. But instead what he does
is he starts being a jerk. It's kind of like being a jerk after
you've gotten pulled over by the police. Being a jerk to your cop is never
going to get you out of the ticket. It's just going to make things
worse which is what's happened here. You heard her say: "I have
a number for you to copy". I'll give you the number
when you're ready to copy. If you fly in aviation long
enough, you'll end up hearing this. It's something you never
want to hear as a pilot. You never want to get told
there's a number for you to call because it means
you messed up so bad that they don't want to have
the conversation over the radio. They want to have
it over the phone It's never good. One of the worst ones
I remember hearing I was flying during the
inauguration in 2016. I was flying in and
out of DC all the time. And I heard on a
frequency that we listened to, Guard. I heard on that frequency that a guy
from the Air Force had called this plane, and said in this very stern
voice that is not nearly as nice as your typical
Air Traffic controller: "You need to exit this
airspace immediately" And then he was
given a number to call. So I knew right there, they
were going to be in a lot of trouble. You never want to get
a phone number to call. And if you get a phone number to
call, you probably shouldn't say like: "No, I don't want
to copy it down". Again, that's not going to help. This is all going to get
recorded and that they escalated, now you're going to
be sitting with the FAA, or whoever the governing
body is of that country. It's not going to
work out well for you. At the end of the day, you need
to realize that flying is a privilege. Whether you're flying a 747 or a
Cessna 152 or anything in between, it's a privilege. It's not a right. Asking for something you
may get it, you may not get it. But if you don't get what you
want throwing a temper tantrum is probably not gonna
help you get there. Okay, let's see the next video. This one's funny. Right behind that
Lufthansa 747 once they... He exits the alleyway
there. We'll be able to make a right turn and
head into the gate area. Thank you for remaining
seated until I will turn off the seat belt sign
once we park at the gate. Until that time,
please remain seated. Again welcome to
New York, it's a beautiful evening here about
70 degrees right now. Let the abuse start. Come on!
You can't let him get away with that. Nice! Welcome to New York. Welcome to New York. Thank you. What was the temperature again? Where's our gate? Flight attendants always would ask me to
make an announcement to the passengers if we were delayed
in getting into our gate and tell people to stay in their
seats and keep their seat belts on. Because they would make the announcement
and people didn't always listen to them. So I would always be fine:
"Yeah, I'll make an announcement". I'll tell them to stay in their seats
I don't have a problem with that, and they will listen
to the pilots more than they will listen to
the flight attendants which is annoying but this is the world
that we live in. What happens is that up there
you've seen on the flight deck, there's a lot of different
buttons up there. And sometimes
you hit one button, and you hit the wrong button. One to make a PA. Make
an announcement to the back but you hit the wrong frequency, and you transmit or you
don't hit the button hard enough and you're transmitting talking to
Air Traffic Control ground frequency at I'm guessing JFK. Which is what it
sounds like here. He meant to be making that announcement
to the back to all the passengers but he made it there and
of course, JFK being JFK. They weren't going to
let them get away with that and so they instead of
roasting them themselves, they let all the
pilots roast them. Now pilots love roasting other
pilots because we have all done that. I've transmitted on
the wrong frequency, I've transmitted on Guard
an announcement I mean, I just... I don't know. A week ago, heard
a guy coming in, he was on a corporate jet and he was on Guard. Guard is a frequency 121.5 that we listen to and monitor
in the case of an emergency. You can hear the planes
that are around you. Air Traffic Control can
reach you there. It's a frequency that I've talked
about in other videos but it's something that we're always
listening to on top of the main frequency that we're talking Air
Traffic Control with. It's just a monitor frequency. This pilot as he's coming
in is flying a corporate jet and I don't know
who he's got on there but obviously there's somebody
very important because he says: Hey! Calls up on
the Guard frequency Meaning to call the
people in the private area of the airport that
handles private jets, meaning to call them. He calls up these people
on Guard and says: "Hey listen. Our
guy's coming in. Make sure the cars are ready. It has
to be ready or they're gonna be pissed." And I hear one of the
pilots get on there and go: "Don't worry, Sir. The car will be
waiting for you as soon as you land". He's like: "Great,
thanks! Appreciate it". And I thought: "I don't know
who he's got in that plane" but instead of letting him
think that he just called Guard, he now thinks he
spoke to somebody there and that's just kind
of who pilots are. We're for children. If you enjoy me explaining
these Air Traffic Control videos, you'll probably enjoy me
explaining these aviation videos. If you want to see one of
those, I put a link to it right here. If you want to see
me explaining some Hollywood videos,
what's real and what's not I'll put a link to
that video up here. I look forward to
hearing from you. Until then, keep the blue side up.
