Hey guys, it's Adam from tested And if you watched my TED talk last year or heard me speak for any longer than 30 minutes You know that I'm obsessed with the movie Excalibur when I was 14 My father took me to see John Boorman's Excalibur and it started a lifelong obsession with armor Particularly the design of the armor in that movie which turns out to have been designed by master Armour Terry English and where am I standing right now? I'm in the rolling hills of Cornwall, England standing on the property of none other than Master Armorer Terry English who's going to take me under his wing this week and Together I will help him make me a suit of my dream armor from Excalibur I can barely wait! Adam: Hello sir, Terry and it's such a pleasure to meet you. Terry: A pleasure to meet you. Adam: I am such a fan of your work that's really weird because That's what I've understood. You were a bit of a fan of my stuff Excalibur realism But the funny thing is I'm quite a fan of yours Music to my ears what your programmers thought well will fun these guys average really? Yeah Amazing shall we shall we discuss some armor? Why don't we do that? Excellent. Ok, come in, please Welcome to the Museum you and I like to fill our spaces with a similar amount of it. Whoa. Oh Who is this? That's the elf House armor that I made for Harry Potter film. Oh my god I made that and a 10-foot high jaw, which I think it's the biggest armor ever made Well sadly the scene was cut, but you do see the troll armor yeah in the last film when it pans through a store and They're both on display at the Harry Potter museum so much to look at It like that, you know So you're here to discuss a suit of armor. Yes. I want to talk about armor in Ghent all things armor Let's talk about all things are. Ok. Sorry never Sit down So Terry, this is is this correct this is your very first suit of armor you ever built How old were you when you made this? I was 16 Finally got a job and I wanted to be a commercial artist when I was at school? eventually, I was that subject and I've got this job a theatrical costumers is called L&H Nathans they're one of the oldest established costumers of that time. Adam: yeah, they're super, they're still super famous. Well they are now Burnhams right? I used to work for both of them But I just got this little copper leg that really fascinated me, a little bit of vintage leg that I found a drawer And I decided I'll try and copy and then finished up making this whole little suit. Adam: a little miniature armor leg. Yeah, just a new leg and I was just fascinated. But before that I think when I was about 10 years old Remember mom and dad one Christmas took its big Store called Selfridges and They had these little plastic kits of armor. Yeah, that was when I was 10 I remember I've still got them somewhere and I remember making those and I think that kind of triggered off the fascination but then finding an actual metal leg I definitely wanted to make it and it was kind of through that, that it Started me off on the road to where I'm nowadays What was it about finding this little articulated armor leg in the drawer that compelled you why, what do you think was it? Nothing. I think it was just a fascination with how it moved. Adam: the mechanics? yeah, yeah and being armor and liking that we've always loved the films Ivanhoe and that stuff, you know, so I guess it was always in me blood and But to actually hold original armor, but the Nathans, the armory, I was really theatrical metalworker. We do some of the first films with 351 Fahrenheit, Dr. Varga no charges are like began to do him the 14 principles on that, but that was mainly badges buttons swords daggers shields theatrical versions of yeah right those my crowns at specialize in making crowns and the jewels and something and But they had an old stock of armor that dated back to Victorian times But they used to produce the stuff for films and theater And they were continually being hired out and getting smashed up It is through repairing them that I learned to make them. Adam: Ahh, so you started out by resuscitating things that have been dented or broken or hinges gone. Yeah, but they were theatrical armors It was only then that once I start specialize in that, I started to do work for antique dealers, collectors, Tower of London. So you got you started getting work repairing real armor. Terry: exactly, and it's through repairing the real stuff That's when I really learned how it worked It's not all riveted together. It's all leathers, it's all different mechanics all together And it was then that are started to specialize in best poke made-to-measure custom built armor So, how long was it 16 you make this beautiful, beautiful figure? How long was it before you mean your first full suit of armor? And that was when I left nathans and decided to start my own company In fact laughs the West Montgomery who said look you've got you've got to leave here. He said you're too good How old were you then? I was about 21, I think You've been there for five or six years on and off. I actually worked in that time as a commercial artist Which I always wanted to do at school and when I finally got a job in commercial art I didn't like it So I went back into the armory. Adam: funny how that works. Terry: Yeah. Yeah. I was a sign writer as well but you say that because it's a combination of the fact that Being an artist I went to art school for a few years as well And so I'm an artist, a painter, if you like a designer and that's where the skills come in now with the film especially with the film stuff is I'm able to use my artistic skills in designing and drawing stuff and it's not enough just to build it you have to be able to communicate to the art director and to the director what you're Actually going to make. Yeah. Yeah But there is that combination of skills when me father was a tailor; bespoke tailor That's so cool. Terry: He was he was actually a cutter, so he cut the patterns. Adam: That's like the hardest part from what I understand Yeah, exactly, and that's kind of where I learned a lot from that And then being an artist and various other things I've done when you put it all together. It makes an armor So this you you leave and you're about 21 22 What you formed your own company? What was that company doing? Yeah The very first film I worked on on my own when I formed the company which was then called English arms and armor snare English arms and armor The very first film I worked on was with Vanessa Redgrave and Timothy, Dalton Or Mary Queen of Scots and I made their breastplates and helmets. Adam: Wow Yeah, and you just started you opened up a shingle and started making making yeah I kind of just progressed from there and then I was like you you'd never stop learning. You know, it's learning to something and yeah, it's just a progression and You know who's gonna go now don't know My first exposure to your work was I was 14 15 years old when Excalibur John Boorman's film about King Arthur came out That Armour compelled me to a lifetime obsession of all kinds of armor I actually collect spacesuits and I think it's also because I love armor, right because these are all ways of protecting ourselves. Yeah From my memory, I just sorry. I mean my recent memory I watched Excalibur last year There's a shocking number of armor full armor suits in that film how many suits of armor Jimmy? Well, it finished up from made 106 Armors for that did it kill me? how Let me stop her. Just thinking about how long did it take to make a hundred six suits of armor worthy It started off when I met John like all films even now Yeah, it's a bit like what you do as well You meet the director you get a fear of what he wants the film to look like now you read the script Yeah, you go through the script and then you meet the actors that can actually play the part and all the time you're doing that you're building a visual image of what that armor should look like right and It kind of so you don't make armor you build it It's a creation. Yeah, it like sculpture And you say different aspects of their look their face the way they stand and and you pull that together And I start to get an idea and then they'll do the sketches of what should look like So ever met John and done there they were talking then about 14 principle armors for the film and I thought the main character Yeah, nothing great, you know no problem and I had three months to do it and I said yeah fine good Then they came back a week or so later or a few days later. I said we look a bit wrong on that the first half of the film is very dark and free me even though you Know wow, really? Yeah. Yes. We need another full teaser suit. So there know it Okay, fine and those are I mean just the difference between those it's really marked because the the principal characters their armor is very symmetrical and beautiful but the dark the darker stuff is Asymmetrical there's bigger shoulders. It's big face. Well, John said to me and kind of sparked off visually accessibility thing and he said I want him to look like American footballers. Ah With these big shoulders and stuff. I'm not sure. How accurate do you look to you? I mean because King Arthur is supposedly from the sixth century, right? Yeah, I mean clearly Borman and you were Taking from all sorts of different periods. What was your jumping-off point? Does he tell you I like this kind of armor I don't like that kind of armor. Yeah, kind of what we did though because there was a lovely coy I'm Tony Pratt, who is the production designer and We me him and John went to the Tower of London spend an afternoon there. Look at our original armors We sketched pants and stuff to get various ideas and blow over and it kind of always just progressed from there I mean Tony got together and we did sketches all of them here the original ones and It just kind of happened from that. But the first half of the film was to be very menacing powerful. Yeah I looked at things like stank these to us I still do I look at my hero look up and the Gertz we could see a shape in there be a home Yeah, I think many artists do things like that sound good All he was a prime example and often well have done a design and and it's all agreed And once I start making it I'll look at it and I'll change it Yeah, because I think no that'd be better if that did that So it is very much an organic building thing and that's what creates the magic that hopefully about. Why do In each piece of armor, you're taking a flat sheet of metal and you're hammering it and moving the metal you yeah You're pushing it until it describes it describes the outside of a shape of the body Who who was your mentor and teaching you how to move metal like that? Well, it was two guys that I mortise everything to really and part me dear father ago, but there was Arthur West who managed the Nathan's armory And there was another guy that I was George Clifton and he worked for a company called Chas H Fox another costume is but they were mostly repre company and He actually made armor a theatrical armor it was him that first showed me how to do logs how to beat stuff When you say logs, you mean actual wood restrung scoops in them. Yeah, so you don't use an anvil they really for making horseshoes Yep it is the Georgian Arthur My mentor I mean they were just wonderful wonderful people really old school, you know, and I just learned so much from them guys But then when I started getting really into it having learned what I learned from them, I just took it so much further. Mm-hmm and Moving metal, you know It's it's weird because you can get you so flashy or metal when you go hammer and you beat it boundaries like your mode Can you beat this metal and but often when you do things start beating it? It's not so much about the stretching of the metal to get it. It's also about shrinking it right straight It's a shrinking process as well. And it depends where you learn the hammer how hard you hit it and When we get into it you'll notice when I'm using a hammer You'll hear the difference in the weight of the blows can be very hard Yeah, and then softer to get because there's no straight curve in a suit of armour Compounds cookers. Yeah, and that's the way it all moves on each other. So there's no gaps Its way all kind of kind of works and that's the sort of thing that I had to learn for meself really It was to save really if it wasn't for repairing those old armors in that company There's probably none of this would have happened it was anything and so I'm curious about that because when you're making Armor for films you're you because you're a designer you are drawing from all of your knowledge of history of armor to deliver Characters and personalities in this armor and stories right? You're helping tell the director story but then you also do all this restoration for Tower of London and museums of real pieces of armor from Hundreds and hundreds of years ago when you're touching those pieces of armor. Do you feel like you're talking to the original maker? That's exactly right. You've got in one If I'm working on original, it could be a sword, you know, I would appear original swords that Peter Maivia bronze missing off a rape here or where I'm able to match them in but also aged in perfectly as well. So you'd then you would never ever know. It's been done I and that's what happens You're like you can see you feel like you learned things about the person that originally hit me I'm working as a piece of armor or saw or whatever really and You know, I've kind of talked Talked to the person that originally made it and I say to them, you know, and how did this bit go? Am I doing this? right and I actually do that and I don't know what that means or where that comes from. What I don't question it or don't know it happens. Yeah, and And that's what makes it work. This tires me. Just thinking about it when you made a hundred and five suits of armor for it Was that the biggest job you've had done up till that point? I think he's probably the biggest job of thumb Since and was there a moment in production when you got to see? this a huge crowd of of actors wearing your armor well, yeah, it's kind of another story there because Because not a real ISO taken on so much and just kept saying yes not Appreciated that the time versus real answer You would always say yes, exactly and it so I'd this sort of them shock went through me I thought oh my god what I've done and Now I've decided that because I've made one suit before a part of a suit for some filmic Um, we were a lion in winter. I think it was I was believed that he'd wrote all yeah. Yeah early films I did all the daggers and swords And I did the jousting it was suggesting scene I made the armor for that and I did it in aluminium some strange reason any kind of work nothing that capable and Wendy listen late for the actors Yeah, so when I did Excalibur and because the time factor, I thought I'll do in aluminium and I thought mmm Yeah, well do it so I made the whole line element and that's what I've been doing ever since it was Is very light to where he is it compared to easier to make it's much easier to men saying so little dent might be easier so much quicker than easy to get them out and The most important things that don't go rusty in the rain So all hundred and five seats for Excalibur are all hundred aluminium. Sorry. Yeah, but it was funny because when I've made about Sixty of them we move the whole workshops out to and and the finished up making the rest of it as you know on Location and we were at the time factor and we're literally following the script When the armors we were being needed we were literally making them almost the day before. Oh But we we did it and Say we don't seem agree got guys would be them. That's it for of you. Yeah, and it was just me and do you partner and so I might Peter Peter lie a lovely lovely guy I we were friends from school kids and we did all the finishing the most of Work and the other guys were really cutting out and doing rough beating polishing stuff like that and I don't I they're not at about sixty suits late and John and Tony threat and a couple of people said Could we see something more dressed just as a chess, right? I said yeah sure. So just sixty of them We had Nick clay on a horse of the Lance alarm and which was then complete and we were up on a bank at the studios looking down on this army of knights and The first I would really used aluminium and John said can you all just walk around so they were walking around great and They said, can you stop just trotting and running a bit? No Okay fine, you say could you stop crashing into each other So that was thought best bet that's been the den started happening. Yeah bit started falling off and I've had run although this is not going to last six months It's not gonna last two weeks, but it did that it does I've never used anything else since when you were working on Excalibur originally, were you here in Cornwall? No, I was in London and I was just outside London s in Essex. That's my first workshop. It was the original stable for Peugeot palace, which was the Queen Elizabeth the first Hunting lodge. Oh, they dated back to 5050 and Formed here links in them. That was your shot That was my first day lovely a lovely bit of lineage to be making an ancient armor Yeah, the same sonic launch things just meant to be I don't know think it's come to me is weird, you know It's just them. Yeah, well good thing has come Are you still learning about how to make armor? Have you've been doing it for 50 years you feel like there's there's there's still challenges and still complications that Not really and I think I'm always covered it pretty Much everything. I mean, I know it's a move metal well sign about you know from a flat sheet Yeah, you make a shape and I'll say this about much much about shrinking as is stretching the metal But also you often find when you make especially visors and like Excalibur with the big brows on the horns of them teeth and stuff when you're making stuff like that a Lot of the time the metal actually does it for you? So although you you can work a big dent in it making armies really people say, oh, how do you make armor? So it was just a load of dense Dense it's where you put the dead body. That's a and Jamie Hyneman used to say as model-makers we take large things and make them smaller in precise ways. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, things gonna get soon We talked about medieval armor also get a great thrill out of them doing stuff Which is really futuristic I've recognizes this is from Oz aliens for alien 3, that's brain I have pictures of this in my alien reference folder. Yeah, big damage nailing Stuff like that, you know, if I did the the alien arms for the clone. Ooh Marines for aliens yeah, Bill Paxton god bless it and So I really enjoy doing this stuff because again, it makes me brings the allows me to use my artistic design and skills And so you're doing all these designs. Yes sketches to show the show the art director designer the erector there's a lot. Mr Frese, you know dude, we had the pleasure of working with Arnie. He's just as I called you Barney it's just for wasn't it just see this good on you, mate and yeah, we became quite good buddies and I made the complete freeze for him and I was in Hollywood for six months on that and It was a nightmare because I made for them For the stuntmen and right so when you're making armor like that for mr Freeze, you're not just making a suit for Arnold. You have to make it for a stuntman Your stand-ins backups, right? Yeah. There's a lot of a lot of work and so seeing it on film It's it's not just about sketching it. It's not just about making it It doesn't come into its own for you until it's been used for its purpose. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, you see it yeah, as I say you're so busy making it and You and you're seeing bits as you make it, it's not when you actually see it on the actor or artist For real and you see it moving and of course the glories when you see the film I mean as you see the finished result and then again It takes me probably four three four times watching a film. We've all been appreciating as a film Right, right. Like you're just kind of seeing your work. Yeah, I'm not looking at that I could have done that better or that didn't or I'm hiding behind that rock when that shot was taken So you never really relaxed enough to see the film for what it is Until about four or five times and then you look at anything. Yeah, I bet hopefully Totally makes sense I am and I see you've got the action figure in but that the other day in London Just as it is it looks like they did a very good job young bad. Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty good Um now I am hotter than God again. That was that came about with David fincher was now happen And they called me up to the studio at Pinewood where they were shooted Made the helmet with a totally different visor on And he didn't like it and I am sure I didn't either but so I had a discussion with him I said well give me a clue. What do you want? And he said I'm kind of looking at almost Gladiator as soon as he said that I've got me sketch pad out not just drew in front of them, right? So it was like that half sort of gladiator type man break The old arm would have you on one side but not on the other seems Excalibur. Yeah And I actually drew it in front of him. He said that's it. I want to know whatever I made him but Nothing. I did I saw those. I think you see three in the film if you blink you miss them Denis Now I am I've come here hoping that you would bestow upon me some of your some of your incredible knowledge In the making of armor. Hmm when I was 14 I went and saw Excalibur with my dad when I was 15 We made a suit of armor for me together out of roofing aluminum, which is like o2 or oh one Oh really thin stuff pop riveted together and I I mean it was fully articulate and full harness With buckles that I'd salvaged off of luggage or photos officer and not a single photo exists I wore it to class. I wore it to school on Halloween and Passed out of heat exhaustion in math class and when I woke up they had cut the armor off of me and they had stored It in the art room and then school ended a couple of weeks later and over the summer. They threw it out So I only ever wore at the one time and I have no pictures of it but it starts again Like I said I have for my whole life and obsessed with Excalibur armor Well, I can say is I hope than when I make you is gonna be as good Okay Shall we head to the shop? Why not? This is where kind of all happens Okay, they use armor in every corner I'm in heaven Holy cow Patrick Stewart looking at your leg. Oh, yeah I'm overwhelmed You know One of the things we we spoke about was the armor Different stuff and I expect but it's also more important than these that is making armor to measure Okay, I do with animals and I make horse armor really more important. Then horses. Can't talk shit. Right, right They have to be very comfortable. Yeah, and that's a yeah, I was made for Harry Potter Oh, and that's the hair for the shine from goes over. The horse's head. Wow It's so lovely on padding to protect the horse. Yeah But can you I mean obviously You know horse is gonna have armor on his head and on his back but a human there are some main Components that make up all armor. Can we do a anatomy anatomy 101 of a suit of armor? Yeah. Basic is Is what it is. It is really a metal suit. Mm-hmm fish you as obvious as comfortable as possible, right and unrestricted movement, so basically when you make it armor and you got the Breast and back plate, which I might you obviously fit so dig in your neck you don't Do that in the arms. I must about the same. They just work on leather so you can If you move unrestricted no, I just did some I did some studying this is the pauldron Yep, the elbow cop you go the Greve No, well, that's that part of the gauntlet. No, let's go to the Vans race Oh vambrace, right? Let's go to the rear bridge Okay, then you go to Goldman. And these are the Greek's they're the Greve got it. Okay Um, we've trying to test it tacit, he doesn't have a placard on this one on that one Okay, mostly earlier arm There's the ball 14th of 50 cent. Three homes add placket of the Gothic arms later ones with one one piece And we've got a chainmail inside here Yeah, and this beautiful helmet, this is all aluminum. Yeah, yeah We're doing cactus like things still I've made them in steel brass. Yeah coffin. I can do it nitty. It's just Yeah, and almost all types of armor are going to have roughly the same the same components putting it together already my friend combinations. Yeah Mr. Colleges leeway different long design aspect more than anything but the actual plates or what they are, you know It's just cover the body a better suit. That's basically and it depends what shapes put into those And this was this was for Harry Potter as well the breast and backplate yeah, that suit was the headless knight Again, like filming and they spent so much money on this and I did so much time putting all this work into it But in the actual film you see them gallop out of a paint in this lines Is there a part of a suit that is That is the most difficult part to make work right off the helmet. She's pretty helmet pretty long. Go ahead Yeah I'm get together that dead front but the most difficult part is the grieve the the calves because up to the end is much Um, there's a hell of a lot more shrinky in that. I mean you're shrinking metal down You've gotta keep working in side to side You keep pulling it in pulling it in and so you get all Creases and things and your bang the creases out and you'll do it again But you so eventually it makes it concave you get that lovely shape But they are the hardest things to make especially in steel So I understand that when you hit a piece of metal with a hammer the metal expands it moves But I don't understand how you make metal shrink by hitting it with a hammer. How does that work? Well, it's wrong I'll to explain it really but you should be hand and that's a flat sheet Yeah, then you will make it round like a grief. Yeah around But then you have to beat it here And in what happens is it kind of buckles up and then you gently hammer the buckles out And it's got to go somewhere so it so it goes thick. Ah, so the bell actually becomes thicker when you're shrinking it It's obvious like a helmet out of one piece, which is what they used to do Yeah, it actually becomes thicker at the top that is on the sides when you be try and beat it out with one piece It's almost impossible because what happens you go so far, they'll become so Sid. Yeah, they're just splits and it's not gonna protect your head Why the helmets were shrunk down? Yeah. Did you have a specific actor you were working with when you were designing? Uh, so you just had measurements. It was I did actually meet the it was an actor. It was a stuntman. Oh, okay Well, it's not many wonderful brothers. I think it was yeah work with all the family that one family or something Greg Tao and oh Yeah, now I just touched this this Chainmail and I feel like I recognize this Well, that was actually came from the film sucker punch. Oh, okay So it was a brilliant movie some reason never seemed to make the great that other knows you're greater Now finished up all the chainmail off of that. Sorry. I'll correct myself male off of it Explain that chainmail is not the right term though It was never called chainmail that came about kind of late Victorian times where because it was like change their associated chain now But originally it was always just called a coat of mail. Oh cool male not chained them I will not make that mistake again. I'll still do funny only this is what people expect to eat, right? of course, of course, we may oh I'm looking at this and it looks like there's well over a hundred separate pieces. Oh, yeah, they put this together When the articulation of it and everything has to be worked out a lot of mathematics go into although you don't actually use Formulas is such like XY equals blah blah blah. Yeah, it's not that complicated. You do it all by eye really but All these lines have to move so you get this freedom of movement so that you can move your mouth. This is a gap Should never be very big in other words a saw blade or daggers gonna go into it, right so it's got to work We're almost almost all stays together. So that's where you get this curve Just so important if you get that slightly off that don't work the same stepping back with this Now when you design something like this Do you keep the patterns you have patterns that you work off of as base as based designs perhaps and I do on occasion I mean I've kept patterns been very bill just start off fresh every time really I guess I've got used to Doing it so much that yeah kind of yeah I mean, I've got the original patterns of King Arthur for instance for your so it which means I got to make them I'm amazing Yeah they've got incredible memory for shapes and Lines and they kind of bury me memories the ones I've done and I'm not doing this what 55 years Yeah, so if you don't get good to something bomb in your mother give up. I find that mind-bending because I mean these are not Everything here is a compound curve There are all these angles and when you say these shapes have to match There's that's a tremendous amount of complicated engineering going on there and you're doing it by it is yeah, I'll go off conical uses I didn't really think about it but wins anyway you say that is true And this you guys you you made this here in the last few years even though it looks like it's a couple of hundred years old you you you have techniques for bringing this armor that yeah you and You know, I was working on a film Yeah, first night. I think they've shown and wishing gear and there was a lovely guy and the production designer, I think it was a Box was his first name John box. I think it was and you'd want a string of Oscars lovely lovely man But we have this production meeting, you know, I was explaining the arm and distant stuff know several. It's gonna be made in aluminium and Straight away John said Oh Alan Williams had low load of rubbish and said don't Farrukh photograph. Well always a rubbish in Agra Hang on me I said you ever see my stuff ever you sir when Maurice hello minion Valentin So I went away. I went in the next meeting. I made it I done original iron rusty breastplate Yeah with all the rough spots and pit box in it, and I copied it exactly in aluminium So I have a technique for doing that and I can still all out but I'd the two of them identical No waiting said Oh John, by the way, I said which one steel which my own a minion we went Through that one me He could believe he said I'll take Bob Bob words back So a Kadesh your bike on that meeting the group 500 years old Terry I really appreciating you letting me come into your shop and apprentice with you this week You mentioned that you had the designs for King Arthur's armor from Excalibur in your head and that's awesome because I have always wanted to a Suit of King Arthur's armor. Well, you helped me achieve this desire I certainly will also do a memory of Nigel Terry Excellent. Thank you. Awesome. Shall we begin?
Yes! Yes! Yes!
One of the best tested videos I've seen in a long time.
Anyone know if they have the build videos up yet?