Access The Awareness Beyond | Russell Brand & Mooji

all right it's me russell brand look i'm very happy to bring you this version of my podcast under the skin which you can get only on new on luminary a subscription podcast network don't panic manually said numenery that would be a good alternative name uh it's a subscription podcast network of original shows you won't find anywhere else my guest today is bloody good as well under the skin's got amazing stuff on there there's move eckhart tolle there's maybe fricking face there's me with tony robbins there's a great bank of glorious episodes reaching right back into the annals i said annals of history my guest today is the renowned spiritual teacher muji for over 20 years muji has been guiding countless seekers worldwide in search of true happiness peace and freedom it was a wonderful conversation he taught me a lovely meditation technique which i think you all enjoy i can't remember where it is on the video just watch all of it it's good it's brilliant conversation also what i like about muji here's a sort of a lucid and easy way of helping you to recognize that you are already in a state of awareness and that you can unclutter yourself from the various sort of accoutrements of your own identity for more conversations like this and guests like this join me on luminaries sign up and start listening with a seven day free trial at lumarypodcasts.com save up to 40 when you sign up for the annual plan not available in all markets subject to local currency terms apply i sincerely urge you to sign up for luminary you recognise now the way the world's going subscription models is the future check out this episode with muji you'll love it muji thank you for joining us for under the skin it's a pleasure man thank you i've wanted to speak to you for a long time one of the things i enjoy very much about your meditations is the way that you make it very straightforward that you say that we're already in a meditative state that we're not more than just a vessel for thoughts and concepts and ideas how did you evolve or develop this method of teaching um i don't feel i developed anything at all to be honest i don't feel i developed anything i'm poor at that anything that req i am for that so i'm not going to make that claim it comes also and i also share this very often that as you if you follow the pointings they are very straightforward i believe that and have this impression that uh of course that they are very simple and they are simple whether my pointings are very simple what seems to be difficult what people find is that the mind their own personal noise come up and some resistance come so it's the struggle with the resistance that comes up in the mind that gives the impression that it's difficult to discover what i'm pointing to so but once once it begins to somehow percolate through and we get a real valued sense a real experience of what the pointings are thereafter you see unnatural confidence emerge inside and it keeps expanding little by little sometimes quickly unexpectedly and we find that we don't need to bring in the personal mind or the background of the mind because it doesn't really contribute anything here apart from a sense of being distracted and and bring back in the sense of personhood which is a thing i say it's worth transcending you see so to answer your question uh as you come into that experiential recognition you find that a growing a natural expansion is taking place a kind of coming into without the mind deliberately making any construct it's just taking place the growth is happening just like the growth in the body happens but i'm not growing myself it just happens so in the same way this this happens that we come to a deeper understanding something comes more natural for us and it's wonderful to share this because people are a little bit afraid that they may have to learn a lot of things and they have so many things to overcome and it's going to take me a lot of time and i said don't that's your mind speaking actually what i'm pointing to is already the reality that you are so don't worry just take one step at a time and you you come there you come there i find it hard even still i've been meditating for a little while now but i still find that yes i have roaming thoughts i sometimes feel quite extreme things in meditation a lot of violent thoughts for example or like and sometimes drift into erotic thoughts you know things that like that all of these things are in the landscape of my mind and i thought that was very interesting what you just said that it's not something we need to engender or act upon it's something that will something that will happen it's something that's already present how do you characterize this existing presence that is waiting to be realized what is it what do you see it as uh okay first of all you know we use the word already that it's it's already an existing presence it's already existing by itself so therefore it's not something that we are going to create and i'm happy always to share that because there is a so the mind from the mind often comes the sense that you have to develop this and create or i said no no no you are merely discovering this you see you're only discovering this and so like you mentioned now that sometimes all kind of random thoughts it i would say random because they just fly up out of nowhere they come up inside the the mind space as you nicely put it and i think where the where the trouble is felt from many people is that they feel they need to get rid of that or that is a statement about the level of maturity that they are or how good they are or if you say you have violent thoughts may come erratic thoughts may come all kind of thoughts that are not desirable uh may just flood the system so to speak and uh i remind people don't worry about that actually the trouble is not that these thoughts just come but you identify with them as though they are some indication or a reading of the value of yourself i said no no no no um don't think that somehow some awakened being like christ always have christ's thoughts or the buddha always had buddha thoughts you know and just poor us human beings we have all these devilish thoughts no thoughts don't belong to anybody they they come and if they get the the kind of reception that we often give them by identifying uh our self personally and then that is the that's opening the door to to them returning so to speak and with increasing uh uh potency and virility you see like this no if you what i advise is that yes let the thoughts come don't rush to put them or to stop them or to be distracted from them how about if we just try just allow them to just happen because before they appear you didn't know they were going to come you see like that they just simply come and how about just letting them come but you remain as uh a sort of detached uh witness to them this is very important you see and perhaps a thing that needs to be heard that you can witness them without logging in to them so to speak you know uh you want to say something no yes sir that is perhaps the one of the most important and most commonly recurring tenets of the can i say spiritual attitude this idea of disidentification this idea of separation from the thoughts sometimes i think for people that are not familiar with the kind of language around the spiritual consciousness say the idea that you are not your fault seems um an unusual one because i think that that is the sort of the nexus of identification i'm russell i want these things i'm from essex i support west ham these things happened i take that okay let's let's let's back up a little bit then for someone who would feel that way uh if it were in the moment and i was with them i perhaps wouldn't just say you're not your thoughts because i i'm aware that at one time i believe myself that i'm my thoughts you see so i can well understand if someone feels like that so i'm not going to try and convince them that they're not them their thoughts i'd rather say are you open to a little exercise of just looking and if you can say look the thoughts are coming up and say for people who who say that they suffer their thoughts it's often because they take them very personally and uh so you know i would say okay let the thoughts come and whatever their their claims are let them let them simply arise okay but you just you are here no and you simply pay attention to that they're coming see if you can look without identifying with them where i said without logging into them meaning that see if it's possible i know it is possible uh maybe in the beginning we feel no no no they're coming sometimes people may say no no they're it's too loud i can't no no sorry i can't and then what do you want to do so like i feel like somehow i embraced them or something i said no no no let them come and as though your lights are switched off your lights of involvement are switched off so you're only able to perceive but not to log in or to subscribe to them for a moment just try it and surprisingly most people allow that space in themselves and they begin to say yeah okay and sometimes i even say just say where you are right now in the looking and say well all these thoughts are coming but i'm able somehow to not grab them so very good very good simply uh stay like that doesn't matter how strong the thoughts are or how personal they are just let them run like you're watching a movie okay and and if you do this that is already a great step because you will see that you're able to stay out of the traffic for a moment no that's if they're able to to do that soon this experience a kind of spaciousness like wow i can actually do this so i i would put that as an important uh step and gradually instead of tackling the thoughts and try to change them or find some distraction from them i said no let's just let them swim up because you did not order them you know and it's it's as though the thoughts are either auditioning for your attention or that there are thoughts that you have given some amount of investment in them they keep coming back keep coming almost as though they feed on your attention if they don't get your attention or interest or identity they somehow just collapse into a kind of oblivion you know they actually actually happens you see and so fresh are these exercises that you are experiencing immediate results to them you see so i'm happy that you stop me there for a moment to say okay some people won't be familiar with that language that i'm not you i'm not my thoughts or any such things like the mind doesn't exist i'm not going to say that to anybody i say that that the world and the mind does not exist is not it's not a great teaching it's a great discovery but it's not a good teaching so i would not want to present someone especially someone unfamiliar with this type of expression i would not speak to them like that i'm pretty sure about it mooji when i was uh listening to you and you said observe the thoughts don't engage with them but i began to do that and in the moment i felt some sadness and i felt some visceral movement the first thing it makes me feel like the structures of my ego be they biochemical or neurological patterns movements habits of thought habits of being almost exist as a strategy to prevent me experiencing for example sadness or other sensations that might be regarded as unpleasant this idea that we formulate an identity that is not absolute but rather a habitual recurring psychic phenomena this comes again and again too in a lot of teaching yes i would not want to put that on you to say that you formulated that in any conscious way or deliberate way we don't know how these things come in some people may have a similar kind of environment of experiencing and come out with very different different responses different memories different experiences you see so what i would say is that uh you say that uh for instance as i was speaking you were trying to do that and then what emerged underneath even more coming up some visceral feelings maybe some sadness so don't end your observing your detached observing prematurely let them come up also and let that also have a chance to to to show itself let it also come you know um i feel it is quite healthy because a lot of times we don't allow space for that we either suppress it i know you are someone i'm sure many people love you because you you almost do that for them you you you express yourself and what's coming up in a very natural way and a way that helps people to feel like whoa you know russell brand says that so i can do that you know so there is something in that that allowing those feelings to come and uh and and you can be alone or you can be other people good if you're alone then you you know even your own mind functioning may try to judge that so judgments may come up about that also but just keep in this kind of neutral observing just let them come don't get into anything don't log into anything quite yet just allow them to come and somehow stay in that neutral field now something important may happen is that if i say now you're observing the more subconscious things that we we often don't look at they may show up in our subconscious state and dreaming and so on but now in the waking state they are emerging deeper layers of feelings may be coming up to the surface but nevertheless stay don't subscribe to them just just let them play and you can do that but what happened now is i would often say try simply now to be not only aware of what's coming up on the screen don't don't don't get involved in the traffic let them flow let them flow but it's sort of be aware seem to chance that you're aware that you are simply that there's a perceiving of them and noticing of them be aware of the awareness itself and i may say that at different stages depending on how capable the listener is able to to actually respond to that guidance if they are able to then they will find that a shift takes place um away from the from the from the noise the traffic noise from the from the whatever is happening in the carnival or the mind or whatever and it's like as though the attention turns back towards where the seeing is coming from and that is a second stage secondary stage that happens very naturally whereby you begin to experience the environment of where the seeing is arising from that's also very very natural thing you see and that's very different the minute you you sense that ah whoa whoa i'm it's possible to just be here now and then i'll may ask them some question what what does it feel like when you're when you're simply aware that you are aware and not just telling the story of what you are aware of which are things that are constantly coming and going in fact all that feel is quite unstable even when we try to describe it it's already flow flown by but we are retaining some impression through memory you see but if you simply observe without trying to control or to direct the traffic but just stay as the awareness of it a great um step has been made that you are aware you become more self-aware rather than activity aware become self-aware that's very very important stage russell i would say that to you i felt it just then i was as i was paying attention to what you're saying i felt the transition into the awareness and i felt that that was transcendent of the initial feeling of sadness it made me think of yesterday how i felt when learning something about ayurvedic diet and like not eating garlic and onions and not drinking coffee and not having stimulants i've already in my life given up um one day at a time chemical dependency to drugs and alcohol and sex addiction and pornography all of these things that i one day at a time no longer engaging but i still have this appetite for stimulation and i suppose in a most sort of in a culturally acceptable form in a behaviorally or behaviorally ordinary form this activity oriented consciousness is part of that and i thought when is the when am i going to transition from a life of essentially living within the confines of a culture that is predicated on activity action materialism to this new phase uh what about we change something a bit not rather than waiting in kind of like when in linear time is it going to come to the stage when this dependency on these um these habits or whatever it is will be transcended how about that you look more from stay on the same let's stay on the same place we are merely observing without judgment because one thing that happens there is that personal identity comes to the front meaning the idea you have of who you are is the basis on which those actions can act and report to and against you see so um i would just say just stay faithful to that just be present in that field of neutrality if i can use this time now you know and because by now if i was actually doing this uh which i hope we we are to some extent um that if we are actually doing this you would be able to in real time with me just confirm that you know actually yes you know if i stay back here and and just be the the looking or the seeing or the the perceiving um then i may ask you in this perceiving place the place of awareness itself is there are you a person here he said i don't want to ask that are you a person here because the minute you touch you know yesterday and listen then i see that you know my addictions and my habit and the need for stimulation and so on i say okay okay okay let's stay in the now and and and just look for a moment you know that even that would be brought up in front of that neutral seeing it is still there you see all i'm trying to do is to point to a dimension within yourself that is not caught in any scenario it's not inside any box of personal description it's actually a place where the functioning of perceiving is itself perceived i don't know if we've gone too quickly to say no no no no i get that i get it man like that thing we said um we said that you know at this point of perception are you a person there and it made me recognize that these are acquired conceptual uh their acquisitions they're kind of a mental property that have been gathered a kind of personal zoo identified with you know okay it might seem to some people that this is a bit unfair because how can we not identify with them we are all brought up like that uh you know where is the place to not identify with them well perhaps right now is a chance to take a look and to say yes you come to that place of uh uh that space of kind of neutrality you know like this where you're only the seeing uh you're only the seeing uh where you know somehow yes that is seen these things are seen and even the sense a strong sense an intimate sense of a um uh an involved uh person that i take myself with and i can talk about that um is uh is you know is is really reaching for connection to the habits in order to validate that you know i'm the one who has them is also seen you see don't leave the seeing and then you see that whatever it is that is emerging is actually showing up on the screen on some kind of screen in front of you you may say it's in the mind or some people may say consciousness but the fact is that you are aware of them arising and that awareness itself is not the thing you're aware of you see this is so radical in the most pleasing way the most open way that you're becoming aware of a dimension a layer or you may say a dimension within your own existing self whereby there's only a sense of awareness of just being aware now i know that sometimes the mind wants to hardly bring some questions yeah but i can't live i can live like that and so on we'll come to that i would rather say taste the fruit first before asking how good it's going to be and how much how much calories it's gotten so just taste that because that is already present this is not a construct it is not a place you've got to reach it's already here so i'm only pointing to a kind of a recognition that is an experiential recognition not merely an intellectual conviction but something that you can pay attention to and by doing that uh observe and be aware of the field or the the the environment internally how does that feel again no imagination is required no creativity is required it's just a question of being guided to to to look from a deeper and truer place within oneself you see because the minute you go back to the reference of yourself from the past it's already got so many tendrils hooking into so many things that it can keep on bringing up more and more and more things well yeah i did it just then and it definitely works it was amazing um muji though uh this is some questions now this aligns a lot with a lot of the cultural post-structuralist arguments that are happening now uh you know what is a man what is a woman what is a nation all these things dismantled like you know like i think in a sense it's a kind of an intellectual version of looking for a kind of freedom a kind of a oneness a kind of a pure truth happening at a cultural level in in one way but when when we talk mooji of this uh receding into this crucible of consciousness that is observing even the most basic uh tenets of self the the the begin to seem or or become become realized as conceptual even oh yeah russell that's a concept oh yeah no it's not happening now my childhood my addiction or even yesterday only this moment is real i can you're very good at guiding people to that space and it's wonderful how you do it however the context in which most of us live is this sort of rapacious aggressive materialism like that our culture our religion our faith is in this direction but only by habit and conditioning i see only by habit and conditioning and whatever we have learned is a is a subsequent to or secondary to to what we are we are already here before learning happens something is already here that you may say learning or experiences happen in front of that so my point is yes there may appear to be so many different approaches to to breaking down the structure of thought and and so on but some of them uh they are doing their little thing but they they sometimes burn themselves out because they are much too in themselves you use the word conceptual or or you know um intellectual in some in some way yes whereas the pointing i'm talking about it is immediate and it is actually um bypassing um i used to say you have i used to say and i do say sometimes to some of the people some of my friends or listeners or so on that you must become like the cow that jumped over the moon and what i meant by that is uh the moon being the moon mind something has to jump a bit over that and it's not as perplexing or you know sort of mystical as that what i simply mean is to to bypass lesser victories in order to come to the quintessence of what is the real because sometimes the mind itself can appear to be searching um but it's only another decoy to of destruction you see to then develop some complex theory uh about something which in the end amounts to um just throwing a stone in the bush as you're coming closer to a discovery is that though the mind throw a stone in the bush to to put you off the scent so to speak and uh um i i i do see when that happens with people when we come to some elaborate explanations about the mind and the world and so on i said you're not going to reach there like that because i sense in that often a kind of a kind of an avoidance parading as a a genuine sort of like search for the truth and it may have some genuineness behind it but there must be a a willingness an openness to bypass many of these what i'd call obstacle thinking uh to get to the core of what it is that is acting in such a powerful way to distract the attention from the from the real the real um discovery you see do you think this deep place of perception is the same in all of us and do you think that this is what people mean when they say god yes yes yes yes yes yes it is the same in all of us it's the same thing this is what's so beautiful you know it is not limited by religious expressions or any sort of like doctrine and so on that's more on the surface i would say in a deeper and yet at the same time i would say closer than intimacy is is that which simply is in our self rather than that which is continuously trying to become or to reach something i point to the alreadiness of what is perfect within ourselves and you quite beautifully um equated that with what you call the god self it is the god center the god self within uh the living beings i would we're let's let's call human beings for now this is time if this is timeless and spaceless and beyond concepts then there is no agenda there is no objective and does that mean that that that this is not that this phenomena this uh true self this unified field however we regard it uh is not in a discourse with the ego itself because sometimes i feel like when i feel like that for example to put it more simply when i was taking drugs because i'm a 12-step person the 12-step method teaches us what you were looking for all the time you were taking drugs was this connection to god to feel safe to feel real to feel part of something to realize and actualize yourself to be free of your ego this is like basic 12-step stuff so and sometimes when i look at the the the the appetites that i've had that that the yearning i sometimes think what does the wanting want what does the wanting want you know i try to give the wanting sex i give the wanting drugs i give the wanting money power none of these things enough none of them mean none of these things mean anything if the wanting wants to be whole to be connected to be awakened to be realized then do feel that this thing this uh god self has an agenda and an intention wants to be realized or is it beyond that kind of simplistic attraction attachment desire yeah yeah it is both it is both and beyond actually because i would say that um you know um let me see how i can put it now um okay let's put it this way that um i stated before that fundamentally we are one with that supreme being or you know but in our um in our dynamic expression where that consciousness which needs the body in order to taste experiencing uh gets identified with the body you know and the whole the whole world play supports that not in some oh we're going to get you that didn't no no in a natural way it seems we all develop a strong personal identity with the body and it seems as though the consciousness the the supreme self wanted to have that that let's talk like that for a moment like it wanted to have that experience of um of uh individuating in in each body believing it is a separate autonomous self in each body uh and in each body have it having its own unique identity and desire and temperament and uh its own unique kind of play or journey or something like that okay um and that you know wherever it came from originally it's lost contact with that but uh where it came from i would say is not at a physical distance it's a distance of subtlety and of knowingness of waking up to something because clearly it seems to me that we were intended to believe for a while that we are merely personal vessels personal beings during our own journey and having our own sense of a personal reality and so on that seems fairly acceptable and i wouldn't argue with that from an experiential point of view as most people would present that however we see that we are constantly outgrowing our concepts and that whatever we believe is not reliable we may feel very strongly about a certain thing but after a while their force is acting upon our belief and our claims that cause us to feel differently about them so even about ourself the idea we have of ourselves is constantly changing all the time so what of any of that is substantially dependable and reliable you see it keeps changing it's like a constantly changing self-portrait so to speak you know but however changeful that becomes there must be a place from where all these changefulness is perceived also and it must be coming from inside it's not something outside telling you look you know i can see all your change from within uh this vessel of conscious expression is that uh to observe uh the sense of one's life and so on and the changes that are that have happened or is possible in the sense of time and and change and all of these things are witnessed by something which itself seems to be much more stable than the things that we are seeing in in and through the mind you see so i want to continue for a moment that um because you mentioned that is it is it be could it be that this supreme state or godhead or whatever it is is completely you know um in uh uncaring about our little world and our own little projections and sign um it is always present you know even in the most um seemingly arrogant expressions and so on it is always there because uh because we are we we are consciousness you cannot know anything or perceive anything even the sense of yourself were you not conscious consciousness is the substratum it's the ground of existence without consciousness i mean if if say some great being were to appear in front of you and saying you know my dear russell you know i mean you know i'm aware of you because i was there before this body of yours was born i've been with you all this time um [Music] ask of me whatever you want whatever you want and i'll give you every i'll give you the entire universe anything you want i can give you in exchange for your consciousness good deal of course not it's not a good deal because without consciousness you cannot be able to say well that's a good deal or a bad deal i mean so this is why i'm saying that the consciousness is fundamental to life to existence to intelligent existence and even to non-intelli unintelligent existence it is always present but it is not the ups and downs and the you and me and this and that the kind of constructs that we often feel so deeply steered by it it is not that and that is what in fact triggers all true searches because until we are again aware of this at an experiential level our lives very really feels fulfilled it's like there's always some another thing to go and another thing to do and i would say whatever it is that may appear to be the goal of many people's search ultimately i i this is this is the only answer that's going to it's more than an answer actually the only discovery that is going to bring inside your being the quality of peace and joy and happiness and an intuitive knowing that what you are uh essentially is imperishable and that will remove a lot of this um the fears and anxieties of a human human being's life moody what kind of relationship do you have with the man you were the child you were uh their your childhood and early life at least in jamaica and being in london and the with a tragic point where your life intersected with political disruption in brixton and the loss of your sister god rest her soul how how do you relate to this life that from what i have learned and read it seems more identifiable as a an immersed life of a ordinary person to a kind of a life where you are extracted from the definitions of culture and into sort of a state of awakening how do you relate to that person what what of the man you are now was present then what of the man you were then is present now uh honestly um i don't dwell on any of these things they're not significant for me now honestly that is like that um they are not a reference for myself nothing that happened historically i can say i may comment about it if it feels appropriate to a discussion somebody may ask and if i feel touched by something a response may come about that but to be honest i feel i've outgrown that that way of relating about myself as a sort of historical self the lineage of personhood or something i it's not it's not deep there it's not totally erased i can speak about the passing of my sister or my mother or my brother and and so so but it doesn't have the gripping quality that it it might have had years ago or something like that and uh to be honest i would say that um we made one book called writing on water and the reason why i'm mentioning it right now is that many things in fact in everyone's life years or so that many things happen they they they they are not stored in any place they they're they're like a writing on water you cannot read it uh two seconds later it's gone um because um when there is within you not a strong personal self-reference as a person then the consciousness doesn't waste a lot of its power in recording things on a personal basis um you know it becomes uh just like if you asked me about yesterday i'd have to struggle to talk about what's yesterday about there are much more significant things at play than to recall or to have a diary about what happened yesterday it's it it's or this morning or something now that may uh may concern some people because we have a lot of our way of valuing our life is to do with memory and what we preserve uh in memory although i have found that memory also is quite unreliable um as a you know when people used to say you cannot change the past itself you cannot change the powers you change in the past all the time i mean the past was also subjectively perceived in you and you feel differently about what you call memories and so on it's not it's not so reliable for me so without trying to dismiss people's sentiments about past or whatever it is i just say that as you discover more fully and the the deeper truth in yourself and i'm telling you it far outweighs and outshines our memories good or bad about a life um which is uh very subjectively is perceived and recorded you know so it's like you see that the activity that defines the narrative of our lives or biography is taking place on a superficial level all the while the presence and awareness is here but until this becomes the sort of a dominant awareness or defining awareness i suppose you it's a kind of living in a a a place that has for you now has no tenacity but i wonder then i suppose it relates to my idea of do you think that that there is a see i think sometimes the reason people narrativize their pasts or mobilize their pasts is a sense that there are injustices in the world more broadly or at least there is darkness in the world there is deception there is manipulation there is domination control um and that it would seem to me that the answer to many of these problems is a kind of individual personal spiritual awakening but that uh the more people that experience that the more likely it is for there to be social or and indeed global change how do you relate your own awakening and your own teaching to these more ordinary domestic political struggles that happen in the world do you think that spirituality is the solution to for example oppression and violence say if i can say and i dare to say that um at the heart of all suffering and and sorrows and evils in the world is um is uh ignorance of our true nature i put it like that now by saying that i'm not saying that whoever it is uh from their own standpoint and their own level of maturity um doing whatever they feel touched by in order to create positive change as is perceived in their own inner language that that is not of value it surely is of value the more we are not running away from the world but uh in a sense discovering the truth of ourself the world changes in fact uh in in in the way that you see it but also in the way that you become effective as a presence in that in in that field which you may call the world you know it's not about changing what's happening in my head and so all that's really all good and and well with you he's jumped off the bridge so he's fine i'm not saying like that i'm actually saying that the opportunity of the life some people may call it purpose i'm going to use a milder word such as opportunity is to discover the truest truth of what your life means and is and it is not going to be gained merely through reading books and having a intellectual conviction about something it really has to be that the food we chew must be swallowed and by that i mean we must be brought again and again if we are fortunate to have someone who can remind you when the mind raises up as forces of distractedness because it will happen and forces of uh resistance and rebellion because it will happen to keep guiding uh uh whatever whatever remains in you of some openness and some earnestness and urge to go beyond the limitations of personhood that if a voice can help you to keep you know again look from here again at some point it becomes so self-evident that you're not being convinced just mail mentally but experientially you're you're actually experiencing what it's like to simply be present as yourself as the truth in yourself not a truth i believe in it's not a philosophy or you know something some religious kind of fervor or something only i mean everything has its power and everything has its contribution but i'm talking about a very direct experience that puts you back in touch um with uh not just the the singular sense of a personal self but the universal quality that's there in the heart of every human being you see so i would put it that that would be yes we must make whatever um you know the consciousness is playing through all of this it's it's impossible to to try and capture what that means you have to only come to see it through the realization of your of what's happening inside your own self you'll come to an understanding experientially that's much greater than the capacity to verbalize that you know will you please do a guided experience for us mooji okay okay because you at the beginning thank you at the beginning you were kind of doing it naturally and also i have many many questions to ask you what is your practice are you continually trying to stay in this state of awareness as opposed to doing structured meditation i have all of these questions all of these inquiries but really i think what i want to experience i want to experience okay let's do this and then you can ask me those questions if they're still alive afterwards thank you yeah let's try let's let's look at that and i would invite um your listeners and so on to to to participate because it's a very gentle um uh um exercise legacy and available for for for any and everyone you see so a very um simple and immediate way supposing that just supposing let's play that nothing exists but you suppose nothing exists but you i know that sounds crazy but let's try it because there was no world and no memory of a world and so on you know there's only yourself so that the attention did not have anything to go out towards and to talk about this and to talk about something from yesterday or or some future there's only your being i'm i'm really having a big shot at this one because there's a slower procedure of slower way of tackling this but let's go straight into that that you're only here and so your attention and everything has nothing to to keep referring to apart from uh being aware of just being you're just here just here okay and anything about how i was yesterday or how i want to be next to tomorrow or next week or whatever it's simply some kind of myth that doesn't all that really exist is is only here right now okay let's suppose that you could leave aside for a moment every idea you have about who you are just for a moment just for just this short time we're going to spend now as you've invited me to just leave every description about yourself your self-image and so on just leave it outside for me aside for a moment let's say we're not going to ask you to destroy that no no no just leave it aside and then when the exercise is finished you can reclaim whatever it is that you're leaving aside for the moment but really be earnest about it and just say whatever it is about myself such as who what i've done in my life and i've been meditating for so many years of this let's just not include that in this present moment and whatever i may want from something called a future like how i would like to see the world and so on let's not engage with any thoughts about that not not thoughts about that and any desire even for enlightenment or something any desire at all let's just um leave that aside for the moment okay so the past your lineage your background the person you consider yourself to be uh your relationships uh and your desires or aspirations for world all these things you're gonna leave leave leave just be empty of them empty empty empty empty and genuinely genuinely uh participate in this exercise so empty empty empty beyond even the idea or concept of emptiness meaning not holding onto anything at all let's imagine if everything that you have learned or you believe or think was somehow could be taken out if everything could be taken out and everything is taken out there will remain here whatever it is that this is something that cannot be taken away it's just here it's not an object nothing it cannot be removed take everything that you have learned everything that you have experienced everything that you could desire just take it out remove if you were taken out so you're totally empty of any content to memory past present future desire even for enlightenment and you're simply here you are aware that what i'm calling you now even your personality the sense of personhood your rights your your whatever self descriptions everything you will suspend for a while leave leave it aside for now and i'm asking you to do this so that i could just ask you just a few questions which are yes or no answers very very simple if you have come so far with me to leave these things aside that which is here now which remains which was not which cannot be taken away whatever it is i sometimes just call it the what is or sometimes i refer to it as just the is-ness may i ask you just a few questions whatever it is that is here now you see is it an object of any form at all no no may i ask if everything could be left aside everything this which cannot be taken out does it have any uh shape or form or design at all that's left here no and what about could it could you say that there could be a boundary beyond which this does not exist you can answer this did you say no it's not a boundary beyond which this does does not exist can this whatever it is become depressed or addicted to anything or become sick no no um can it be for or against anyone can it take sides with anyone at all no it's beautiful stay like this stay with me just as this just like this are you creating this have you created this or are you imagining this at all no no this which is therefore having asked you that previous question can this whatever it is can it fade no no cannot fade may i ask you maybe what seemed a strange question was it created or born no no the next question is can it perish or die or end no no is it a philosophy can what we call mind exist apart from or independent of this outside of this no let me ask just perhaps one more question how close are you to it is it a question of some centimeters a meter a mile what is there any distance that separates your natural sense of being from this no no distance no not distance so therefore would it be unreasonable to say that if all your answers are as they have been and are and you did not have to even think about your responses it seems to me then could i deduce that all these answers are about you what you are yes yes uncreated not merely an object cannot be sick or depressed or become addicted to anything at all it cannot fade that there are no natural boundaries beyond which it ceased to exist that is not merely a philosophy or a belief system that it was not born that you did not imagine it and that it cannot die is it could you say it's just a feeling that you're having no no and then i think i asked you after this how how how far is it away from you and you you say this there's no distance i said if all these things are so as you have responded then what you are confirming is your own true self and that if this conversation should continue in whatever form will it make a difference to this which is is this in waiting for some thing to happen so that is it that's all i wanted to share you know that that you could have this direct recognition and that that is here irrespective of what is playing within the field we call the mind and person and so on that you may call it a background could he even say it is a background even and not the foreground it's it's it's it is is it limited in any way at all no no it's very good very good and that's simply what i endeavor to share um uh with with each one who is open to take a look and as uh rightly uh promised that after the exercise is complete uh we may go back and pick up the usual stuff that you we i asked you to leave outside i mean you know it was not a trick of course we can go back and and even if we don't go back to claim them these these this play these these things these characteristics or whatever they will keep coming somehow appearing in a space we call the mind will come but can they push this out of the way or are there merely happenings inside the immensity of this non-happening space i am saying that this is what the um the buddhas of the world the christ and all the great masters or not not recognized to be great whoever have come to that recognition that's the first stage thereafter one would be so impacted upon by by this inner seeing that you would want to to continue marinating your attention in in this you see and i'm not asking anyone to stop smoking and stop going out and having a good time and it's got nothing to do with that that can be if that if that's what life wants to do to play and so on it can only be a play that arises in this and and ends in this or whatever happens in that but can this itself end or be affected by the actions of the body-mind or sense of person you see thank you thank you and and russell this is all i've been wanting to share i say that one comes to this purest of recognition in what in fact i feel our soul longs for but haven't come to recognize the importance of this recognition and so we continue on a more shallower platform of uh body-mind personal existence which is also an aspect or mode of consciousness but as you indicated at some point earlier in our conversation that's that's more of a superficial layer of ourself and this this awaits the recognition it's not sitting there waiting for recognition it is the unchanging uh self that we are i mean everything else are like clouds uh coming and going some slowly some quickly and it is fine that in the realm of changefulness change happens i mean it's healthy but now one sees that if whatever is experienced as being beautiful we need not try to cling to it because other beauties are coming also the traffic is flowing by but this place which i point to i say that is not flowing by the thank you the biases of our culture are if they are not an expression of this whilst i acknowledge all things take place within this these biases are likely derived from uh biological impulses for fear sex desire status sort of primal animal drives this it seems is what our culture is an expression of acquisitiveness domination um i wonder then if you consider it to be significant and important to uh that our cultures become an expression of this in a way that um influences the balance of these aforementioned more uh appetite led forces thank you so i i would not be so naive as to as to you know be out telling people this you must do this you must do that i feel that each one is ripening at their own speed and people are coming more and more into this understanding not i i would i would not say that this will happen at an evangelical proportion or something like that and it's not necessary for me i think it's a very uh i don't i don't feel the god self which which is what we are what we are speaking to from and about um is impatient waiting for human beings to do something it's already perfectly there the layers of what we give so much importance to what we may call our human uh level of consciousness and behavior superficial as they are does wreak havoc in the world so to speak and as someone an intelligent being um would wish to um alleviate or to to transform that destructiveness into a more constructive or more a more peaceful um way of being of course of course of course [Music] what i would say is that as each one comes to this recognition in a very in their own time and natural way and the universe is somehow i would say the universe in some way a bit unbeknown or unrecognized to so many people is actually coaxing us towards this all experiences if we are smart enough to learn from them is ushering us back to self-discovery it's like to become ourself again so to speak and so what i would say about that is that um as each one experiences this the the power of this recognition that is so transformative to first of all your own sense or way of life um it will automatically bless every other aspect of your expression and also in some way enter into the orbit of other points of consciousness you know it does it actually and i would say in in if i would give an example of my own um way or life as perceived here um i came into this into this way of sharing and pointing out um and it seems quite a number of people are touched by that and and their lives have changed in profound ways including very deep anxieties depressions and addictions and fears and all kinds of ways have been transformed not by force and not by suppression but by allowing space for these energies to arise within us and to be seen increasingly from this this fresh discovered place you know more and more yes so it's in a sense it's not about the exertion of these practices or or access to this state it because that is more likely to be an expression of egoic individualism to sort of say right i'm going to make sure that everybody in britain or the world get gained access to this state that's you sort of already crossed over into the other fuel into the other strata into the sort of egoic force it would mean that you never really crossed back in the first place to have such an idea because what happens is that the sense of the egoic drive subsides into a more universally uh expressed way and so uh uh what i would say is what you discover and uh is you don't have to push life about uh so much there is a there is a flow in life what i would call the cosmic authentic flow of life which is actually perfectly suited to each life form um as we come into into the greater consciousness from which all life is flowing it is the source and the womb of all uh of existence as we discover this more and more no you find that uh instead of pushing the river so to speak we we are more somehow finding uh just discovering that life takes care of life i want to say that you know i don't want to miss the chance to say that because we may feel that the previously held ambitions and the sense of nobleness and zealousness for changing the world uh subsides now some people might think no i don't want to i don't want to give up my my drive to change the world well um if you're trying to change the world from a very uh subjectively distorted perspective i wonder how much true impact you're having on what you call the world i feel that as you you must there's a saying i'm sure you know about it where it said it was something that had impact on myself many years ago before i came into any of this it said you know that uh you must become the the the change you wish to see in the world or another one that says i am not uh um seeing the world as it really is i'm seeing the world as i am and it's through my own lens of uh sometimes distorted perception and and uh uh subjectivity that i'm perceiving a world which is only inside my head from for most of us our world is inside our head the way that we perceive um what we call the world is uh something that is not stable it's it's it's it's of influence by so many different moods and at the time of the year and some untraceable factors contribute to how we're feeling in each moment and we are somehow presenting this as though they are facts you see where for me i see that they're fiction and this is why i said earlier that i don't give so much importance to that yeah it is a reality that's much more profound and that from this uh deeper disc discovery as i i hope we have engaged in that and others can experience also one finds that the kind of hastiness that we uh we come to in life um is not necessary you see somehow something drops back inside a more a quieter flow which can be quite dynamic when it wants to be but it's not driven by any human agent it's it's just the the natural life i would call and it's not something to preach about it's not to go and say hey listen guys you have to start living naturally i don't care about that you know so at least i'm freed from that burden of feeling that we must preach about this or something my friend came to i guess you did an event either at brixton academy or a fridge or somewhere some brixton place and he's described he's a this guy as well he's a very spiritual man actually but he backgrounded not a spiritual background and he's you know like but he's talked about he said that he goes oh mate i win that muji thing man and like a blue light come through my consciousness and everything was won and i see one listening i started to think hold on a minute i like he goes he goes enough don't matter when my kids die nothing matters nothing matters everything is one and then he goes i thought i wanna it doesn't matter when my kids die it does matter like you go i don't wanna go in that blue light here like had an argument with experience of enlightenment it's but it's a remain for us a point of reference of the possibility of transcendence the liberty of transcendence the beauty of this state and i'm very grateful to you because i've experienced it many times when listening to your youtube channel and i i'm familiar with and uh student to a degree of your work and uh but it's very beautiful to experience it in such a direct and intimate ways as i have experienced if i could say something i mean it is true that um people uh do have uh um certain experiences through satsang through these kind of talks that we have and depending upon their temperament and so on i often say you know just keep quiet within yourself and don't make any premature conclusions about anything you're experiencing for the moment because all that is also traffic for now um so people do sometimes uh feel like some sense of explosion with inside themselves that's not my goal or aim you know sometimes you may experience like the vanishing or the depressurization of the mental stuff and that can create a tremendous uh you know blast of just pure joy or something for a while and some people go out and say this happened and this happened and so on i am not going for these kind of you know grenade moments of so on but more that that that very quiet and steady very much as i have endeavoured to guide um and respond to your um your request to to to do a guidance online with you um that uh we must continue to somehow marinate the attention because what tends to happen is that as soon as a profound experience uh occurs within us of of beautiful kind very glorious kind uh sometimes a strong sometimes i say a storm is coming because it is as though it triggers all this all the heavy stuff to come flooding to the surface and then people go oh no no i can't handle this man oh no no sorry sorry i can't i can't can't do this so um i i i'm very happy always to to to just to make people aware of that that that is a very uh normal reaction and and not to not to somehow um take that to be the outcome of of your initial seeing um because it may come stuff that you we have consciously or subconsciously suppressed start to come to the surface and it may act as though the mind is trying to sabotage your opportunity for freedom so this is really an earthquake that many people feel oh this is too much i can't handle and when authentic when an authentic experience of truth uh first the impact of that so for many and i'm happy to say they are large numbers of people who go through that um initial you know uh quaking but they persist and i say just keep marinating in this marinating your attention in this stay with this rather than to be talking about it and reading about it better just sort of keep looking from this place of emptiness and see that whatever traffic appears in the in the mind space is just that it's just appearing and disappearing everything comes and goes there's never been anything that's come and stayed everything is coming and going and the noticing of this is fundamental to to what i'd call really being liberated and liberated means to be liberated from the the hypnosis of psychological conditioning and and and from the strength of egoic identity you know that's the real freedom and it need not be you know some evangelical outburst or you're going to change the world it may come in in differing ways some beings just become very quiet others become much more creative there's such a wide field of uh expression arising as an outcome of authentic seeing and it's not like it's a bang in the head and it's finished we continue somehow maturing and refining in this discovery and at the same time all this is seem seemingly going on against a background of unchanging awareness it's a kind of paradox but you really experience that when you when you when you genuinely take it on you know what happened one that's one more thing because you say your friend was saying like nothing nothing it matters nothing exists like family and so on and you freaked out at that because i know you you're very much a family man and and and how how much i i've i've seen an ex heard your expression a kind of loyalty and love that you have for your family quite rightly so it is not that we just feel oh i don't care about some people do express that i don't care about this i don't care about that but if we follow them we find that gradually their mind properly integrate into the heart and they do see that what they really meant is that i don't only care about my family and the world becomes my family i think that's much more an authentic thing uh you will care but the level of uh attachment and fear that often accompanies um our our love for our loved ones and so on uh gets distorted by all the stuff that goes on inside our minds that's not been cleared up as yet you know so ah thank you mooji mooji thank you so much for uh spending this time with me and for this personal teaching i know that you are very busy and i'm very very grateful to you for this direct focused clear passionate and yet relaxed experience thank you well it's been i have to say that it's been uh you you allowed that you know you you you you gave the space for that i'm very grateful for that because you know i i don't expect anything you know i just discover as we go and i would just like to um say thank you and to bless your work because i know that with all the the jokiness and the fun and so on people love that about you but i see that there is really a deep level of care and compassion flow that flows from you that's why i wanted to i was happy to to to meet you like this and i i just blessed that you you reach more and more people in this authentic way because uh people always need uh each other at least to show a way that it's possible to release ourselves from so many things that we have buried and feel like you know nobody wants to see this or this is too ugly to be seen and i feel that people like yourselves and so on um give a space for for for people to feel it is okay to to that these things have happened to me and i'm not the only one that they've happened to like that you know and that to be honest if i can just share that if people could look into the lives and the background of many awakened beings they went through exactly similar things of turmoil and uh even sometimes to the point of suicide and things like that before they somehow they needed that friction or that tension in order to somehow break through or break out of of that you know so uh the people need not be so scared or judge themselves to too much there isn't anyone who is coming to this world who who is exempt from this and uh and if you were exempt i would tell you it would not be such a great life life is really for transcending and for growing and for for for sharing and empathizing and the consciousness allows all this play to take place because at heart and that is the most important thing what you are fundamentally is uh perfect in fact and that's not a compliment to people it's just a reminding that we don't need to be so hard on ourselves don't believe your mind you know we have got a very strong and unhealthy relationship with our minds in a psychological sense and we don't often get enough um good uh examples although there are many many good and great people in the world and sometimes we feel if we listen to the news and so on we may feel that you know wow you know my you got very little uh good role models for this type of discovery in life so i want to just myself thank you mooji thank you thank you that was really cool i want to come there i want to come here ashram i was trying to organize it and i will organize it with your permission i i would love to come yes yes actually since then you know i've uh because it's we call it an ashram for so long because you know so much of my spiritual um experiences have uh come through the many years i've traveled to india sharing like this as well too a bit strange that uh for for many people that a jamaican man is giving satsangs to indians and so on and many indians are coming but the point is here that um we felt to to to give it a more appropriate name to what we're doing now and it's just called the center for self-realization mantissa a center for self-realization rather than ashram because an ashram comes with with so much you know particularities and so on sure our teachings is very very universal it doesn't exclude anyone yes open to everybody and like that so it's not that we want to have more and more people come it's just that it's more of a true reflection of what happens here it we if you come here it very much feels like an ashram it's a very loving place very free very i in fact uh uh i i would like to re-extend the invitation to you to come because i know one time you were taught about coming but it it just didn't happen at that time so you know i feel it would be very good for you to come and take your family with you and spend a few days with us yes i think so too mooji thank you love you i love you thank you thanks for listening to under the skin with mooji let me know before they on instagram sorry bear dropped piece of paper my dog there tag me at russell brand tweet me at harvest the rockets hashtag under the skin shout out to my mailing list at russellbrand.com gain exclusive mailing list only news and video content and also soon a live show which you will like i'll be back next week why don't you listen to some other episodes if you enjoyed this with muji as well as checking out muji's own website mooji.org why not listen to some other episodes eckhart tolle byron katie sharon saltzberg do you not want to be a living embodiment of god the great oneness we already are it seems but let's live in that truth keep checking out my youtube channel thanks for listening to under the skin from luminary peace

Channel: Russell Brand

Views: 635,433

Keywords: Russell Brand, Brand Russell, BrandThe, Russell Brand video, Russell Brand news, Russell Brand revolution, Russell Brand politics, russel brand, russell brand podcast, mooji, moojiji, mooji satsang, mooji 2020, russell brand mooji, under the skin, podcast, spirituality, enlightenment, meditation, guided meditation

Id: 1NjPdqd7mQM

Length: 86min 54sec (5214 seconds)

Published: Sat Aug 29 2020