A Dialogue with Ram Dass and Eckhart Tolle

welcome everybody welcome everyone here with us in Maui as well as people who are tuning in live to this broadcast is a special historic moment the first time that Ram Dass and Eckhart Tolle have ever been on stage together this is a whole lot of now be here now and then the power of now two books that each perhaps more than any other two books published influenced hundreds of thousands and continued to influence hundreds of thousands of people and introduce them tear a veil away to the present moment and when we have now and now together there's a type of multiplication I think our experience together here I'd ask everybody to listen with the ear of your heart sometimes Eckhart asks people to listen to this space between the words that that's where the real impact often can be found not just in the conceptual messaging but in the space and listening with the ear of our heart is a similar type of listening as many of you know I'm sure most of you know ROM das as he puts it was stroked by God in 1990 and so his speech can be quite slow on occasion and I think if we listen with the ear of our heart will be tuning in to what's most essential so to begin with talking about the heart I really want to start right off right here at the beginning to ask a card and round-offs to speak some about love as another word for now is it another word for now is it the feeling dimension of the now I mean apart you so often speak of stillness it has a different flavor than love at least in my experience so love as the feeling dimension of the now I use the word sparingly there are certain misconceptions around laughs because there are so many different types of love it's sometimes hard to get away from the idea that love is some kind of wandering and in the Spanish language the usual expression for I love you means I want you and that's very true in romantic love you want the other person and as don't remember who said it in true love you want the other person's good in romantic love you want the other person and so other languages have different words for love to distinguish between the emotional wanting and something deeper agape meta so on the Dalai Lama says my religion is kindness he uses that word kindness so these words point to something point to something within you an essence from where you perceive and interact with the outside world in a very different way from the usual mental mental eyes conceptualized perception of reality around you including other new beings the usual way to relate for people who have not awakened to that deeper level that I often call essence or your essence identity the usual way is to relate to other human beings through mental concepts or judgments they become the veil that comes in between you and your perception of reality and awakening is to become free of the compulsive the compulsion to judge continuously to interpret continuously to label a name continuously what's around you and whoever you are with and when that compulsion to label everything mentally the conceptualized reality when that subsides and that subsides when presence arises then there is you sense something in whatever you perceive that is a kind of recognition whether it's a human being or whether it's any other being natural a tree or an animal you recognize something in the other that before when you were naming and labeling you couldn't but you and labeling the other was always the other and nature also was conceptualized especially human beings become conceptualized in that the other in the egoic state the ego actually emphasizes the other nests of others by continuously criticizing judging have opinions and mistaking every viewpoint for the truth every thought that comes in that's how he is that's how she is and so there can be no love there although that egoic entity sometimes talks about love or it says you need to love your neighbor as yourself it says you are trying very hard and that with that phrase of course comes from Jesus said love your neighbor as yourself which really means you recognize your neighbor the other as yourself and that recognition that sensing when you look at another human being in the spaciousness of just this let's see sometimes call it the formless dimension what you're looking at is form what you're looking at is the physical body and also what you are perceiving is the mental form the psychological form of that person if you go beyond form what you perceive in the other you sense through your own presence the presence of the others that which cannot be seen it's the essence of everything if you have a we have a little dog that's at the moment we think oh hope he'll serve our she will survive she has a heart disease when when this dog dies hopefully not for a while all you're left with is the the fur and the what's what's behind the fur the bones and the intestines and so on the essence is no longer there the essence of that being is no longer there but when you look at the live dog you can sense an essence of beingness the beingness in the other sometimes it's easier with animals and with humans because what you have with humans is a lot of mental identifications so you sense the beingness because you sense your own beingness and that's the heart sometimes I don't use that very often but that you could call it perceiving from the heart you use the word more often perceiving from the heart to perceive from the beingness and then you sense the beingness of the other and that recognition is the recognition of oneness and that's love love is is sensing that you share the consciousness which gives what you love in the other ultimately is the consciousness you don't love it's nice to touch the fur of the dog or to touch another human being to touch the skin but ultimately what you love in the other is something that you cannot perceive that is beyond the senses you cannot mental eyes so the to be to perceive through that space of love is to be free of the compulsion to mentalize and conceptualize and that's in practical terms it looks like this I'm looking at Ramdas without conceptualization if I conceptualize I have some image as a Oh he'd here's the famous guru he wrote that book or applicants whatever concepts I have can I look at him without any concept and there's just there's suddenly a meeting in stillness because that's really what it is when you look at something without naming it you look through the stillness and I'm inviting I know he's already in stillness and I'm inviting everybody here at this very moment to perceive and look the totality of this room the environment whatever is around us not through any naming but it's too simple the enlarged space of stillness be the space I would like to speak the love is not only appears the moment you conceptualize and so that's the how stillness and love are related to the very closely and then now of course it's all part of it it's all the stillness is the essence of now love arises let's see that's our destiny is to live in that way as a normal or normal state of consciousness and then because the world would become transformed if enough humans live in that space too we'll come back to that because this basically we're always talking about the one we're always pointing to the one essential truth which is the truth of who you are I would like to speak that that love is not part of the emotions rather that love is is soul talk it's all talk because I the eyes see here where are each souls and then we are one these are two different levels of consciousness when the individuals soul meets another individual soul there is a recognition that that is it is a soul the ego is rooted in in negative negative stuff and the soul is rooted in love so that when you were in your ego you are anxious and you're you are separate from everybody else when the soul the soul is separate from another soul but but they have they have a recognition of the shared shared consciousness when you have your when you are perceiving from your soul you will other people look like Souls like for example if you go into a store there are different people playing different roles there's the customer and the clerk but I go into that store and I see these are Souls and they have they they planed they're playing these roles only on this on this incarnation and they've only chosen to these roles because of their unique Karma that a word that's yeah I guess so question about this which is not only do you use the word love sparingly in your teachings but you don't use the word soul very much either I often hear you talk about how our conceptual thinking keeps us separate from this field of oneness and being but the idea of an individual soul I'm curious if you could comment how that fits for you I never decided not to use the word soul it just didn't come up I never decided not to use the word soul it just didn't come up in the same way I don't use God very often so to me means as Ramdas just said you walk into a store or anywhere at any place you see all these different human beings different forms and it's it's lovely to see the multiplicity of life forms around you without needing to believe that the essential reality of every human being you see or coming to contact with is the form that you see or the role that they play it's only a temporary thing but you can still enjoy the multiplicity of life forms and even enjoy you see the roles that people play you can only enjoy it really if there is a recognition of something deeper in the other and if you have that recognition of something deeper in the other and you can only do it through recognizing who you are beyond your role and beyond your form which is consciousness the light of consciousness the formless consciousness has taken on a temporary form and so the universe produces billions trillions infinite life forms even on this planet alone even in the human alone every human being different in some way it's amazing but if you only see the differences then you're trapped on that level you need to be able to sense your essential reality of consciousness to be able to enjoy the play of false because otherwise the play of forms not only keeps you trapped you pursue some kind of you seeking some kind of thing through forms fulfillment through other forms other humans but you want that's the ego again other humans wanting to fulfill you and now for my next song that's a that's the role that comes with this so as we sit here these are just temporary forms this form will be gone soon this form will be gone soon and sooner or later all these forms will have dissolved like soap bubbles and all that remains is the one that expressed itself through the many and if you know yourself as the one which happens when the mind this is the stream of thinking stops and there's just an aware presence spacious aware formless presence that's who you are beyond the form and from there you can enjoy the play of forms if you're not there the play of forms is threatening or you see continuously to fulfill yourself through grasping and forms the the player forms is never satisfying unless you have you've touched within yourself the root of all satisfaction which is beingness itself consciousness itself the Buddha already taught us that the unsatisfactory nature of things it's all it says whatever wherever you go you will find dukkha suffering no matter what situation you go into there's always a crack in everything and of course in the words of was it Leonard Cohen there is a crack a crack in everything that's how the light gets in so our meeting here the things going wrong are actually beautiful because that's how this for example but not being able to talk for a while an opportunity from stillness so it's welcoming whatever arises and then being touched with that which doesn't change consciousness itself to feel just at this very moment a sense that that still alert presence in you so is that is that an individual presence or is it a an impersonal presence the isolate the you can't really distinguish between that's the the sense of I that is the formless consciousness is at the basis of every everybody sense of identity except that it gets mixed up with stories in the mind but if you really go very deep where does the sense of I really come from not the I my story or the I want and I need and I must have it so on that the deeper sense of eyeness the I am I am I am the way said Jesus I think they left out one word I am is the way so just sense and then this distinction between personal and impersonal doesn't really arise anymore it is the the essence of anybody's sense of identity beyond form is consciousness and that's the that's the universal soul expressing itself as an individual now is that the answer I'm never interested I never asked myself am I going to survive as this personal self no I don't have the sense that the person but the the essence of Who I am is timeless I know that I don't really need to know the details of what the essence of Who I am what's the essence of who I am the time is going to do in the future to make that distinction no these are because they're a lot of it is just what's become Buddhism in tourism you have in Hinduism Atman this the God within Atman the Buddhists say no there is no Atman it's just emptiness they're talking about the same thing because the Atman is formless so it emptiness is in some ways more helpful because you can't believe in it the moment you say that there is an at man you can see it start believing in something you have another mental concept so the Buddha was very good at making it very hard for people to believe in what he said very hard because you can't say oh we believe in emptiness welcome well maybe the George in the Buddhist monasteries but that wasn't meant to be set like that it wasn't meant to be realized and then and the moment he realizes his cause it's Atman and emptiness is the same the from this a song from individual songs and as we agree that we we see in each other the admin of the the the the I've thought thought well it's not a fun the soul is awareness and since my guru said to love everybody I said the soul was loving awareness and when he said to me love everybody I first of all the politicians I hear oh yeah I mean I love them I mean I mean certain ones I could bear but I guess I said Maharaja I can't do it I can't do it I can't love everybody and that was my ego because ego judging judging judging judging the soul doesn't judge now I live in the soul and I can love the walls and the ceiling and all of you and me and the wheelchair and that's art and everybody and I just I thought I was I was psychotic because because as I love the wall it gets closer and the love becomes Melvin to me and to the wall and the trees and the ocean because I think that we we we are one but we will only feel that when we when we love everything love everything and when I was I was up here and my ego I was judging and judging and and judging myself and love that person but loved that person and loved that person but the soul you you like the ocean of love that you're floating in the ocean of and that makes you love everything including that wall I had a humorous experience I told an audience that I loved everything and I said I love this rug and it was a it was a restaurant and the the rug was spotted and would I could live that love that and a friend of mine mickey lammle was coming came up it had been in the audience and he said look I I love the trees that Co gam had it painted but I can't love that rug I said judging judging judging and so so he sent me from my 80th birthday a piece of raga and with the spot in the middle and he said maybe you'd like to substitute this for your guru on the wall I wouldn't have he didn't see that I could do that and he was losing he was losing by his judging minor because I was moving towards oneness with love that's the interesting you should mention the walls and what looks like inanimate objects I also find often I I pick up an object it could be maybe just about soap or the pen and there is an appreciation of its that its existence just a moment of appreciating the mind could explain it and say well that's because ultimately everything emanates from the one assumes a form and then changes again so ultimately whatever you see or perceive is an emanation of the one and if you see if you recognize the one in yourself you can recognize it in any form and one wouldn't usually call that love but in a deeper sense it is it is a love it it's an appreciation of whatever is around you and again it's to do with the world of form to live in that balance between relating in the world of form and being rooted in the formulas which traditionally perhaps what we called spirit whatever still in this this dance and in yourself you can sense this isn't just described a brief moment when we were driving here today there's always of course there's this temporary body sitting in the car and there's the mind there's a name attached to it and a personal identity so you're always there's there's two of you here so to speak don't take it all too literally it's just you're using pointers only there's two of you here the form this is a cart the spiritual teacher concept who is going to meet another spiritual teacher another concept and even they're going to have a dialogue but there was very little of that in that back in the periphery of consciousness I knew that that was also true but the essential truth was he is a he is a space of consciousness moving in perceiving so at any moment you can be either more on the site of form or you can be more on the site of the formless and the most satisfying way to live is to be more in the dimension of the formless so as as I was travelling in the car that I was really not there as a person but simply as a space of consciousness there was no and there's no thought that's what happens just that and then if a person were traveling to an important event how can a person not be anxious you would be thinking motorized how is it going to work out what's he going to say what am I going are they going to like us what's all kinds of stuff will happen but if you are and really the essence of it all is to be able to be and I know the people here and the people who are tuning in from elsewhere are able to recognize the truth of what I'm saying and that is more and more humans are now able to enter that state where they don't need to think think the compulsion to think goes and thinking is replaced by presence stillness a lot beautiful space of stillness so if you can be at any moment be that do you still know of course you're still a person for a while and there's no need when somebody asks you how old are you or what is your name you don't need to say I am nameless and timeless Yuki you you can still go with the conventions and say well that's my age and that's my name you are quite a normal you use the conventions of form you still can operate in the world of form but you're rooted somewhere else in in spacious consciousness for a while when the transition happened to me I was so much in the space that I thought while I couldn't operate on the level of form very well and then after a few years the balance came back that's so really the essence I think you will agree I'm sure is freedom from thought to access that dimension in yourself Ramana Maharshi said the true criterion whether you are making progress on the spiritual path that's what somebody asked him that question how can I measure my progress on the spiritual path and Ramana Maharshi said the degree of absence of thinking is the measure of progress on your spiritual path it's easy now you know you mentioned earlier the word karma and I wanted to ask you something about that I think that many people would say that the sudden awakening at heart that you had was some kind of fabulous good karma extraordinary Karma grace itself Ramdas your experience meeting your guru neem karoli baba and the kind of heart awakening that happened very good karma extraordinary Karma and then your stroke being stroked somebody might say well that doesn't look like such good karma to me in fact that looks kind of like yucky karma and I'm curious what you feel about that both of you this idea of the good and bad karma of our lives well this is this question of grace and karma my my meeting meeting my girl he knew that was going to happen and because my knowing that my knowing that and seeing his mind now his is awareness I it would make me thinking Oh grace I would I was graced to have this meeting and I will would think this his grace to me but I think it was my awareness of his awareness that led me to that that conclusion because if I if if he if he had an awareness of my life through the through my entire life mean what is his game my mother my mother died of a GI spleen illness and my girl said she was big in the stomach and they get big in those stomach and and and this is this is all in Hindi and he and then and he said and then then it was the spleen he he and the word spleen he can in English it was my mother's dying was being used to help me help me that was that was a CD a a power he had that's what led me to let me to say it was grace in fact I should I just live in grace there because like I was a psychologist and what would the psychologist say I wouldn't I wouldn't read the bhagavad-gita I'd be bad funny book and then I I down the hall from me in my office wisdom malaria and and cell and so I took mushrooms and that opens me up to meet Maharajah and meet the bug of the Gita I look at all these stages and I had and my guru knew that that's that's grace that's grace I don't see grace as happening that's the result necessarily of good karma grace can erupt at any stage it can erupt into bad karma it can erupt into a good karma it's somehow from another dimension something comes in in my case I would say it came because of bad karma without all the suffering having a childhood that was unhappy parents continuously fighting no harmony in the environment lack of often lack of money and then they got divorced and it was great shame for me when I was 10 not many parents what he forced at that time so I had to hide that fact in countless things came in my dad I loved him on one level and on another level I hated him I had a dream because he was like a caught up egg that could erupt at any mater clay like a unexploded bomb they could erupt at any moment so I lived my whole childhood with an unexploded bullet it often the unexploded bomb exploded so that's not good karma and so the the young adult became unhappy it had absorbed unhappiness from the environment and so on and so all that's not good karma but because of that bad karma the suffering became unbearable and then a surrender happened when the suffering became unbearable and there was the eruption suddenly of grace now the question may arise I may not be able to answer it but I'll ask it the fact that surrender happened in the midst of the suffering that must be grace that's probably right so who knows surrender happened and with surrender grace constantly flow in fully grace is the the essence of who you are coming through the form so that in grace then you're not the density of the the form lessons and as it lessens grace is able to flow through the density of the form lessons through surrender or acceptance of a simple thing for let's say acceptance of the present moment as it is as a spiritual practice think if you could make that your spiritual practice you may not succeed all the time that's fine you have compassion with yourself and if you don't succeed to in accepting what is then accept that at this moment I can't accept what it is so you have another level of acceptance behind the non acceptance I can accept that anger arises in me at this moment that's what is like if I denied or I should be accepting why can't I accept the present moment or even better the mind talk you have two peoples why can't you you see you can't do it you've failed again that's the self talk of the ego instead become passionate so when you cannot accept and recognize that and allow the emotion to be there you still have some space than in celestial grace because grace is space really all the parts are quite similar actually grace and space graces when the space comes into the inner the spaciousness of the unconditioned divine consciousness comes into your life so the quickest way of inviting grace into your life is as I sometimes put it become friendly with the isness of this moment no matter what form it takes because it already is anyway so why not say yes because it is can doesn't mean you can't take action but at the moment it is so in other words you've go with what it's an expression you go with the flow of life and the flow is always here and now you never go against it but this is what it is always the starting point is the isness of this moment so that's the then if with that acceptance the gate is open for grace to come in if you complain about the difficulties or the unsatisfactory nature of the present moment the the door is closed or let's say the shutters are closed the sunlight can't come in it doesn't mean you are more powerful than the Sun the Sun isn't concerned about the shutters but so when you when you deny this it is you exam how against the present moment or you treat it only as a means to an end because there is an important place I want to get to grace can't operate in your life or you only get a trickle just to keep you going just an occasional trickle occasionally when you when you go oh look at that sunset and for a moment the complaining entity subsides and there's a moment and grace can come in and you can live on that for three weeks one sunset but of course it's only a trickle and so to go from form to formlessness is done by accepting whatever form arises in the present moment whatever form this moment takes they immediately - well that's what is with the acceptance of form the formless opens up in you and the ultimate rules of that is in the the image of the crucifixion which I see as goes beyond religion religion or anything there is some people dislike it they say oh I don't like the image of this man on the cross it's all to do with suffering and it's unhealthy and so on but there is a deep meaning there that for a long time perhaps could not be expressed in an abstract way and that meaning is you here you have the image of complete suffering of a human he is nailed to the cross which is a torture instrument and this human is able to surrender and accept not my will but thy will be done and then suddenly the torture instrument becomes a symbol of the divine isn't that strange the the state the torture instrument has become a symbol of the divine so the through acceptance whatever looks like an obstacle or even a dreadful thing becomes transformed every situation accept it deeply and if it's a very big thing like a crucifixion that needs to be very deep acceptance and immediately there's a transformation so the grace is hiding also in that which looks dreadful the dreadful sufferings that we see all around us they are there but it's hiding and you can only see the truth of this in yourself I'm not saying anybody should believe in that you have to find out for yourself that grace is hiding in what the seemingly dreadful things evening little things that go wrong but even more so in big things that go wrong so to speak and ultimately you see it's not wrong it didn't go wrong that what it looks like in the moment when you charge it so that's the inviting grace into your life through bringing this deep yes to the present moment then your evolution accelerates and the more you do that the less you need that is asked us because you cooperate with the flowering of consciousness consciousness wants to flower into this dimension in this dimension so it's welcoming really what is that was my stroke yes yes and that I was in the hospital and I looked all these doctors nurses my family my friends were all you have a stroke and I I felt by their minds rubbing off I was feeling some terrible things happened and there was a picture on the wall of maharaja and he was this is the stroke is Grace and I know there are three fellows here they're my medical team and I would never met them I wouldn't have met them and we share philosophy and medical things but I had the stroke if they so that was a grace and then I had wrote a I had before my stroke I had a book how could I help it's called how can I help I was feeling I was helping and after the stroke I book how can you help me I wouldn't have I wouldn't have thought it possible that I would I was so dependent and find in in myself and I learned a lot about dependency and that was and that was positive was it many of you have probably seen the film eight of Ramdas life called fierce Grace I love that title yeah cause when something major like that happens it really is fierce and when surrender happens there it takes you very deep so it's been fierce grace comes into your life then that potential is therefore going very deep and that fierce Grace burns up the illusory self it's the fire in which the ego gets bound up it's it can also be a place where the ego gets strengthened sort of thing what happened to me life how can life do that to me how can God do that to me why did that happen to me that blocks it what is potentially a huge opening into burning up of one could say thousands of years of accumulations burned up in that fire so that's perhaps good to know for anybody who is at this moment facing the major very major challenge live in just a couple of moments we're gonna open up to your questions and questions from our online audience as well but before we do he is saying that the questions are nameless people didn't write down their names which is just as well it's fine before we go to these I just had one last question that I wanted to ask you both Ramdas you've mentioned a couple of times your relationship with Maharajah and how important he's been in your life and I know that people actually look to the two of you some people look to the two of you as a kind of guru figure for them believe it or not I've seen the photos in people's homes and I'm curious if somebody does look to you in that way how do you think they could benefit the most from that relationship Michael all processed to me you're not a guru are you I said no of course not I don't see myself of course as a guru I dunno some people look at a photo at first I was shocked when somebody told me they had their photo on there my photo on their desk and that's not what for but I then remembered I saw a photo of I still have it Ramana Maharshi there's a particular one photo of Ramana Maharshi that has incredible light coming through his eyes and I remember years ago looking at that photo and feeling sensing that deep stillness and peace and aliveness and but I also knew that that was not the form I was looking at that was in me I could sense that and I could I could see the reflection of that peace and aliveness in the photo also so it was a self recognition into acted a little bit like a mirror and it was a self recognition but what does what this mirror shows is not the it doesn't mirror the outer form to you it mirrors the inner essence whenever you look at somebody if the photo was taken of a an awake being or even a person at that moment is free of thought and in the state of just awareness and it something comes through the eyes that points to that it is recognized by something in you when you look at it's nothing to do with the person whatsoever and so what you sense a your own essential reality reflected back to you by somebody who is free of all the stuff that usually covers it up [Music] there's a line in the Course in Miracles it's supposed to be Jesus talking but of course it just means an expression of the awakened consciousness so Christ that say Christ Jesus is the person Christ is the formless so it says he in that that line says is in the first person I meaning I Christ or Jesus I have nothing that you do not have except that I have nothing else and so I'm now quite happy with people looking at my photo or looking at me as long as they don't think they're looking at a person the person is there on the surface it's it's not important you could say it's the window frame what you see what you put with your senses is the window frame but the thing that happens the important thing is the light that comes through the window and but the moment you recognize it it's in you because it's in you that you recognize it that's how the reflection works you can also I recommend looking at occasionally you can look it's into somebody else's eyes and the similar thing can happen if you both are able to enter the state of aware presence while you look into each other's eyes this cessation of thinking what's left when thinking ceases just awareness pure unconditioned consciousness and you look at the other and suddenly there is no other there is a merging of in the field of awareness it's a it's a beautiful practice where you transcend the personal in yourself and in the other and that's a beautiful way of connecting and so you you see yourself in the other with the merging that's a similar it's a lovely spiritual practice if you don't overdo it just from time to time and then you do the same in any situation when you look at a human being you're not conceptualizing that human being and you're looking at yourself the essential not looking but sensing the concept consciousness in the other through being consciousness yourself and so it's all barks in the same the same way so what how do you feel about people looking at your photo I'd say to them if you if you if you met a real one you know you are the real one yes hi so were you and so is everybody here yes ramana maharshi that picture oh boy yum-yum-yum haha that's the I read that the when that picture was taken of Ramana Maharshi the photographer asked no Ramana Maharshi said to the photographer is there enough light and the photographer said to him you are the light and it worked we have a question here from the audience that I think is really important as a part of our conversation which is how can you love violence crime and starvation to name a few examples I'd add in microphone noise how can you love these things yeah I'll start you don't you don't love what people do you love who they are in their essence and what often what they do is delude it it's based on delusion a because they don't know who they are so unconsciousness operates through those humans you don't love what they do but you look whenever you meet a human being even if it's the human being is a criminal or has perpetrated acts of violence there is in them somewhere something that is pure that is the essence of who they are and that's what you when you look and if the human being is heavily burdened by egoic delusion or a heavy pain body you need to be more intensely present with that human being and it can happen that this also applies to human being who is mentally unbalanced it is sometimes possible if you are absolutely present you draw out not through an act of will but just because it happens you draw out of that human being something that is beyond the delusion the essence of who they are it may only be temporary but it's there so you don't you love the individual human and now that how can you love a disturbing noise love is not necessarily an active thing love often is is the in the allowing it's the gesture of the Virgin Mary for example it's there's a feminine quality there which is the embrace everything so you can embrace the loud noise although you might get a little a shock maybe there that doesn't mean you resisted the noise there's the shock and immediately after the shock there is the allowing you can practice that when you bump into something I sometimes recommend that as another spiritual practice because sometimes you bump into something with your elbow or your foot and there's a sharp pain and usually of the pain and immediately after the plane there's you shout something it's it may be a four-letter word usually it's four letters and it's quite a lovely practice if you bump into something and the pain is there but immediate acceptance and no comment or commentary or further reaction except the physical reaction it's just quite lovely ended Oh nothing else so the sharp noise you don't say oh I love this sharp noise know this it's embraced in the I allow you to be here that's the love really rather than I love you know but allow you to be here at this moment in the way you are and the you can be a person or situation I allow you to be as you are in this moment that's love rather than feeding I I love you are there any instances where you are unable to accept what is anything that makes you impatient judgmental or angry there are moments of anger that can happen usually don't last very long they said they still in there's an awareness in the background that accepts the anger when it happens so it's one is not totally in the grip of the anger but a space around it or sadness can arise I sometimes cry when I see something sad or somebody dying or example I was we were walking in in Italy last year visiting a small town and the church bells were ringing the people with me were walking on and I was just standing at that square in front of the church and they were carrying out a coffin and some of the relatives were standing around and I wept i I don't know who died I don't have no idea of that person because to me that moment was the its it embodied the deaths of every human being that ever lived and ever will lived it embodied the impermanence of the human condition and I cried but not it wasn't a crying of despair it there was a beauty there was a peacefulness underneath the crying but I did cry I didn't say there should be no death des is a travesty no there was an acceptance but nevertheless it's just a bit look actually a beautiful experience but the deep sadness there was but there underneath it there was a knowing of it there is something that doesn't die that was that's there so that's how the an emotional can still exist within the spaciousness something would any more to say about loving what seems at first unlovable I love it all I mean even even even that even that I've even that and you've gotta be you bring it daughter told you told you we all had a chance to love a date a dictator this this year and he was a form that was causing suffering to many people does that make him unlovable I think that each form each form is a form of God sometimes in heavy disguise well every disguise sometimes Jakob yeah yeah there's another question here wondering how Eckhart and Ram Dass perceived psychedelics and or sacred plant medicine ROM das at this Parnevik or part point in your life as a vehicle to explore consciousness the expert first it's great the mushroom trip that I took lives left the group and a quiet room I and I was in a couch and I saw there was somebody else in the room but the room was dark is just fee I felt that somebody else and I looked over there the corner of the room and each of my roles my cello playing and my they were kitchen kitchen roll rolls rolls and I why the Richard that my parents gave me and I said oh this this drug drug I might say I might have amnesia at least I have in my body and I looked down and there was the couch and there was no body on it and and I was my eyes were open huh and ice ice I wanted to call help but then who wanted to call help all my roles are there my body was gone somebody or something some some and I I roll and the snow some the hills I roll and wrong and I I was at Tim's house and my father and mother's house only two blocks away snowstorm was up to my knees and I walked over there and there were their walk they were all and I was young and I I shovel from the garage I thought I'd really it's it's it's my heart told me that I shove all their walk and I shoveled and I was really out there and then I looked up at the window and they were both they were having peeved look I couldn't and there and but that I was they were they were up until then I always are the people's eyes whether I was being reasonable but they were they were they were peeved and I was I danced a jig around the around the shovel and I waved at them it was smiling that was the first time I'd ever stand up to to external external whatever that was well sorry yeah and then I found out that they were appeal it was it was 4:30 in the morning I was happy with my hand I was going to shovel their walk but they they all they live in little boxes when one doesn't shovel the walk no nobody shovels the walk in our psychoactive plants and what you consider there oh well it took me from psychology to Maharaji that's pretty good that's pretty good yes this let's is it that's release it must have been powerful yes look I I never tell anybody to do it on their own or to do it by my say-so all I'd say is what happened to me and I boy I yum-yum-yum-yum-yum and I'm being being facetious but people don't don't realize these are very very powerful plants and and they should not be used well they shouldn't should assume I don't know what they used they should be I should be they they should God should be your copilot yeah I think our question I really wanted your perception of course I can only go on the basis of my own experience which is very limited I'll tell you very briefly what it is and one quite recent quite a recent experience it's amazing that it took me so long to try pot but we were in Amsterdam last year and somebody got me high quality or to smoke and just know well might as well try it also people often ask me questions about it it's like is it like meditation or is it useful so I smoked and what I said when it took effect was it's like maple syrup for the brain it felt like the - kind of and I can see it can be a wonderful thing for somebody whose mind is very active and it finally slows down for months now since my mind is not that active it it wasn't I didn't feel it as great or even wanted to do it again but it was interesting but and I can see how it could be helpful to some people who are burdened by dreadful mind that never stops not as a permanent measure but perhaps to open a door and then go on and actually meditate and practice presents and so on in similarly asset but I don't know when it was 15 years ago I was already doing counseling and doing little workshops and often people said what do you is it was acid helpful I said I don't know I haven't tried it and finally somebody got me some and I took it and again very limited experience my experience was simply that [Music] the sense perceptions became extremely heightened so like everything was shouting at me the colors the smells the physical sensory touch everything wasn't like turning up the volume on everything and it's so much thought I can then I could see I didn't lose any awareness so the awareness was there observing what was happening it was interesting and I immediately realized that for some people it also stops their mind because the when you perceive so in such intensity you have no time to comment on what you're perceiving so you're just embodied by sense perceptions so the mind so shuts up for a while and you just go wow and this is the tip experience some people have with looking at a teapot and finding incredible depth scent aliveness there which I already have without it I can look at a teapot and feel its aliveness maybe not it's not shouting at me but there's a subtle there's a subtle thing there that's it has it has a presence so I don't need things to shout at me but I can see how for somebody who is totally immersed in mental noise it can be again an opening that's really all it is there's also sacred I mentioned of course two other substances like mushrooms and so on which I have not experienced at that time that goes back thousands of years that practice as part of not as a recreation but as part of a sacred journey the in within that cultural context and I think that's probably extremely valid and it may have to wait for another lifetime before I try there we have a question here from someone in the online audience who says when someone has dementia or Alzheimers their being seems to disappear as I spend time with my 93 year old mom I start to question what it is you're pointing to can you speak to this the with the probe as the there's a sometimes an intermediate stage in Alzheimer when people don't remember their problems I had a friend whose mother had Alzheimer and in that intermediate stage see for the first time in her life she became happy because during that intermediate stage she couldn't remember her problems she was beginning to forget who she was so that was something that also happens of course when you become more present but that's very different when you become more present you rise above thinking and when you develop this loss of memory or even when you take certain things like alcohol then you begin to fall below sinking which can be quite pleasant if thinking is a torture for you which was many people it is because they self-taught they torture themselves through their mind if you fall below thinking then you go but if there's no grocery no bionis you're moving toward sleep so in the intermediate stage of Alzheimer's there are some people it seems to experience that freedom from the mind but then you got more into it and you I see the mind or the brain as something through which the non-local consciousness that pervades the entire universe assumes a particular form so it the the brain of the mind is an instrument for consciousness to move through into this dimension and a focal point for consciousness and when the brain decays which seems to be the case with Alzheimer the the brain can no longer fulfill the function of being the focal point for consciousness and consciousness then withdraws from there and that gives the appearance that the being that was there is gradually disappearing and it is it's a slow death you die before the physical vehicle dies but the consciousness can no longer move through the brain the mind and so it goes back and what is left with is then just the beginning of dignity of death of the form so the the mind form dies before the physical vehicle dies that's how I see it the consciousness is still there but it's no longer in this dimension Rondo's who said something interesting when we were talking previously he said that the stroke affected your body but but not who you are and I wonder if you could comment on this is a vehicle in this in this in this plane of consciousness I'm using it I am using it hi I'm not identified with so it would it's either so I've said the body had the stroke I'm I didn't have a stroke and and I when I'm when I go into the present moment which is not time in space it's infinite that's who I am that's who I am and I don't think I'm I don't think I'm I'm ego either they're all they're all they're all ego and body they are part of this incarnation but I am not part of this incarnation because I have I'm just visiting this incarnation then I just wanted to end with one final question to make a full circle from where we started we started talking about love not as an emotion but as an experience of the present moment as an aspect of the present moment and to end I'm wondering if you were each only able to give us one pointer to how we could tune to this love in the now what would that pointer be I'm sure you all know it already two days ago we visited rum das and when I left I saw his license plate on his car on the license plate it had it was a normal license number but in above and below it said I'd rather be here now as a cause the usual thing is I'd rather could be fishing I'd rather be golfing so I'd rather be in now be and now is really the key because embracing the present acknowledging the present realizing that there is only ever this it's really all that's needed to be the presence rather than to be the mind made entity so sometimes put it like this it just didn't occur to me when I was writing the power of now it came later you are the now in essence on the surface now is what happens in the depths of now than now is the space in which it happens so that which is the world of form coming and going and coming and going and the space in which it happens is the unconditioned to formless timeless unborn the uncreated the unmanifested your consciousness itself the one or the light of the one you could say the words perhaps it's just it's the light of the one and so be the now be the space for what happens rather than continuously reacting to what happens and being hypnotized by the world of form so it's the D hypnosis the world of form includes the thinking every thought is a thought form very hypnotic every thought says look at me look at me follow me here know follow me and then you go on for hours you follow the thought which leads to another thought and it draws you in it draws gravity gravitational pull and then you become a personal lives like that completely absent only in in here even when they meet somebody they go they don't see you only their thoughts about you don't that's stepping out of all that into presence be the now be the space for what is you hardly tip top that I'll be there when you meet somebody and they say what who are you you give him namely your role or something like that but when you are alone and you see Who am I there is there is there is awareness and love and you can I am I am loving awareness I am loving awareness I am loving awareness I am loving awareness many thanks everybody [Music] you

Channel: Baba Ram Dass

Views: 1,815,076

Rating: 4.832602 out of 5

Keywords: hanuman108108108108, Dass, transformation, Eckhart Tolle (Author), Ram, Hanuman108108108108, consciousness, ram dass, ram dass best video, best ram dass video, ram dass eckhart tolle, ram dass sounds true, ram dass youtube

Id: zPmgTJGPzlg

Length: 120min 21sec (7221 seconds)

Published: Mon May 19 2014