40K - RELIC TERMINATORS - SATURNINE & IMPERIAL DECAY | Warhammer 40,000 Lore/History

[Music] so [Music] [Applause] [Music] so [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] we return into the darkness of both the void of m41 the heresy the crusade saturn volcanite weapons and the widespread fog of information that is the 40k verse and when i say frog of information i mean both inside and outside of the law itself it's always interesting to me how a video comes together and originally this was part of another insane weapons piece that i was assembling but then i went off so hard on a tangent it turned into this where now we will dip into the state of decay within the imperium and consider if it's even salvageable at this point but that i think will have to come to a far bigger discussion down the line for us to have any real conclusions primarily today we consider the evolution of relic terminator suits and i finally tried to clear up another significant annoyance of mine which is a terminator suit that people for some time for some reason started calling mark 1 or saturnine the short version is to the best of my researching it has never been called either of those things anyway i'll discuss that later in the video the astartes have always been the best equipped of all forces within the imperium and i'm sure that someone will take issue with that but objectively speaking they are the best equipped however like much of the imperium the astartes have not escaped the slow decay of technology and knowledge while at one time they had suits that were both ornate in design and capable of wielding the most powerful of weaponry now space marine armor looks by comparison drab dull practical most suits of space marine armor be they primaris or first born are largely unadorned except for some superficial detailing purity seals and of course this does vary from chapter to chapter still some are more embellished than others much of this likely stems from the fact that during the great crusade humanity and the emperor set out to impress upon the surviving human worlds of the galaxy just how impressive the empire of humanity could be once again why do you think the emperor dressed in a gigantic huge suit of gold so the drab plane warriors of m41 hardly create that vision whereas figures of the legions were far more embellished and impressive with gold trim filigree everywhere and you might say well who cares what's the point of that well the point is that in the imperium's past and specifically up until the events of the horus heresy humanity was still making solid progress on improving technology armor and weapons were continually being upgraded including obviously and primarily space marine's equipment later armor variations until the indomitus era would be effectively the same barring some minor adjustments but it was during the crusade when space marines really saw the widest scope in terms of upgrading improving their armor with different versions and on top of that they still were able to make them look incredibly impressive with tons of detailing now it is very matter of fact straightforward all about just the practicality in the modern imperium belisarius calls new war gear is all well and good his development to the primaries undoubtedly game changing for the astartes and the imperium but the issue that has been slowly dragging humanity into a state of stagnation and collapse still persists but across the wider imperium competency of technology remains incredibly low and even continues to degrade it has been 10 000 years since what could have been potentially a new golden age for all humanity ended but it was not to be and instead what humanity has endured is a slow burning fear of knowledge that has steadily rendered human civilization at a point of near collapse the imperial region gilman has made some attempts to begin reversing this but he faces an immense and perhaps entirely unachievable task and he is even aware of this turning around 10 000 years of decay is not something that can happen quickly and it's looking ever more like he is realizing as well he may not be able to do this at all given the state of religious worship of the emperor in the modern imperium his attempts to use historites to gather knowledge from all across the imperium has not exactly been welcomed and in fact resisted at every stage by both the ecclesiarchy and the inquisition and coupled with this he has had major issues dealing with nergol's attempts to consume ultramar the indominus crusade attempting to prevent the imperium from falling into a state of galactic collapse as it continues to be assaulted on all sides by both the ineffectual state of its own people and the terrifying hostility of all other threats zenos and the like the bottom line being it's unknown if humanity can turn around its technological decline and reclaim even a sliver of what it once was the ultimate fate of humanity remains a very large question and just what form that may take is only something to be speculated upon and for a simple video today talking about imperial hardware i think i came away with more questions for myself about the future of the imperium [Music] a significant amount of patterns for imperial hardware have been lost since the great crusade and what does remain struggles to be maintained as well as a considerable amount of knowledge in terms of manufacturing equipment such things since then have disappeared due to a variety of reasons likely during the period of the heresy itself things like forge worlds being raided patterns of a weapon type just being destroyed as noted though there are signs that the imperium is now attempting to revive itself we see weapons such as the volcanic appearing once again among the primaris these were best known for use in the crusade era only used by the astartes of the time in a very specific section of elite human forces known as the solar auxiliary and incidentally there is sort of a connection here between these and the next thing that i'm going to talk about so it's fitting to discuss these and valkite again now volcanic tech was practically scalable like most imperial hardware mechanicus are to put it mildly not fond of invention but what they will do is make an existing piece of tech functional in terms of scale and mounted as widely as possible for a individual level and on vehicles so for example the valkite it was used as a pistol a rifle mounted on tanks imperial knights and even a titanic scale the valkite represented something of a niche advantage over bolter weapons in specific deployments i suppose to a degree it may be considered something of an elegant weapon for a more civilized age and while the vault gun of the space marines became standard issue the core benefit with vulkite weaponry was that every shot would weaken the armor of their enemy a bolt around must either penetrate armor or cause enough of a concussive blast on impact to deal shock damage it was never really designed or expected to be especially great at dealing with heavy armor and during the crusade it quickly became clear that reliability and functionality was far more important when marines were often dealing with planets of moderately equipped humans usually lacking in heavy ceramic armor the downside for both weapons is that they could fail to make it through armor now or even glance off by contrast so-called melter weapons are something akin to a more powerful concentrated volcanite but because of this it is a short-range single point weapon then we have flame weapons and while they're capable of incinerating mass groups of enemy showering them with liquid burning promethium it is essentially a flamethrower and as such it's a surface weapon burning on the outside or obviously for clearing out bunkers nests of tyranids etc well armored target is barely going to be affected so the benefits of a volcanic weapon against other alternatives is a very fine line but really it comes down to versatility as a conflagration weapon it functions by burning through armor but in a more steady gnawing burn than a superficial flamer or a strong burn point weapon like a melter a valkite is slightly more powerful than a standard bolter but without its fire rate or accuracy whilst in motion not as devastating as a melt weapon but a volcanic's self-igniting penetration fire can leave enemy armor very weakened brittle vulnerable to follow-up shots so during the crusade the advancements in imperial weaponry the necessity of how they're being used the prevalence of new plasma weapons which when supercharged would deliver also strong armor penetration and an equivalent damage of a volcanite one might consider is there a place for such relic weaponry the answer is yes although i was somewhat joking before when i said it was more of an elegant weapon for civilized ages often do with these quotes but i don't think it's that far off actually because modern imperial weapons all seem to have their own pros and cons obviously with plasma weapons that trade-off is that if you want it to be powerful you have to roll the dice literally on blowing up in your face and turning you into a pile of shiny ash the volcanite on the other hand being a weapon design of a different age is more refined and stable it doesn't deliver quite as much punch when stacked against the others it's still highly effective now these kind of tools will be needed by the imperium and the astartes more than ever so the resurrection of volcanic weapons now called neo-volcanite have returned thanks to arch magos balisarius corps so it enables us to consider what else may we begin to see returning to the imperium relic weaponry and armor remains still in use among the space marines the primary reason being that despite new developments powerful relics can remain unmatched on a battlefield and that can be true from an individual level right up to huge starships one example would be the relic falcion super heavy destroyer a tank which wields a truly apocalyptic arsenal of weaponry two volcano cannons and two sponsons of quad laz cannons making eight in total this made it one of the most powerful tanks ever created for the imperium however this vehicle primarily appeared during the heresy and now few if any chapter will have functional super heavy falcions and any other extremely rare relics such as these will likely be locked away behind heavy blast doors in the vaults of an astartes chapters fortress monastery tended to and maintained by dedicated tech priests to ensure they remain in as perfect condition as possible there may come a time when such a vehicle may again be deployed to the battlefield but the inability to construct new versions now in m41 makes the decision to use such a tool and risk it being lost forever an extremely difficult choice it is though through the sheer respect for the power of relic technology and dutiful mechanicus repetition that the astartes have ensured some relics still exist and this could now be ever more important if we hope any of these masterpieces of the imperial arsenal to be once again revived or more likely adapted for use in the modern imperium it's been true for a long time that the imperium cannot simply reverse engineer its technology the meaning being that if you own a thing you can just simply take it apart study it and then make it again this is a bizarre oversimplification of that process as i've ranted about previously however in saying this there remains the possibility of a true genius such as the eccentric archmagus call who may be able to resurrect some of this presumed lost imperial tech cole is one of the very few in the imperium who seems to possess the ability to genuinely take technology research learn and then resurrect already invented because his outlook towards technology is very different than most of the mechanicus and even the imperium and an existing example of that would be something like the aforementioned neo-volcanide something we thought was lost in the technology about how to create those consigned to history now resurrected unfortunately however the archmagos is now far more concerned with the current situation involving blackstone and the necron pharos than creating new suits of armor for the astartes [Music] so we've talked a little about the state of technology in the imperium now let's look at some true relics terminator armor speaks volumes about the glorious history of the astartes coupled with their zenith level of skill and warfare and often attributed to the specialists honoured by being assigned such powerful relic hardware like that of a terminator suit there exists a few things more iconic than the space marine terminator armor when we're speaking about the elite fighters of any chapter for these warriors will be the most senior of veterans in m41 though none will exist who live during the heresy period or at least that's true for loyalist marines for the most part the oldest marine believed to have lived for some 1 000 years is dante chapter master of the blood angels but most marines are believed to survive anywhere from 200 to 500 years in age although death usually comes as a result of some kind of engagement or sacrifice more so than old age which it's speculated has never occurred for an astartes the exception of course being some of the most ancient dreadnoughts who would have remained in stasis for millennia and some of their number may well have walked alongside the emperor himself regardless unlike standard space marine armor which has steadily evolved over time terminator armor types have barely changed beyond some standard patterns and many will have existed since the great crusade itself this again is in part down to the steady collapse of human technology and in fact one of the main causes of this would have been the horus heresy itself tactical dreadnought armor was initiated by the emperor and was set to be designed in order to help stem the losses of marines during the great crusade as well as specialist operations in certain environments the mechanicum at the time was making progress in developing terminator armor but it was both time and resource heavy initially suits of terminator armor could be presented to the legions but few in number because of their difficulty to be produced they were limited usually only to given the first company of astartes or their important leaders officers by the time the heresy came mechanicum had not been able to significantly increase production of terminator armor and so as a consequence few of these early terminator suits were ever manufactured by the mechanicum this situation was only then made worse by as the imperium began hemorrhaging resources to fuel the war against the traitors by the end of the heresy unsurprisingly a significant amount of information had been lost by the mechanicum now mechanicas including much of the information and secrets regarding the technology's design consequently in the modern imperium every suit of terminator armor is treated as irreplaceable significantly venerated precious relics by the space marine chapters that own them and even more so if it is a rarer pattern design or even an ancient heresy era piece new terminator suits are almost unheard of in m41 if an additional suit is required it may be pieced together from savage remains of terminators killed in action if you were ever to see a new suit it would likely only be given to someone of an extremely high position such as a chapter master perhaps it is speculated that the mechanicum had originally intended to replace if not all than a significant quantity of the legion's power armor suits with a heavier version of something akin to terminator suits but that balanced increased survivability with maneuverability in the end the decision on this was taken for them as humanity was dragged into the heresy and any production of new terminator suits effectively ceased from this time in m41 acquiring the knowledge to enable the mechanicus to once again fabricate some of the more complex pieces of terminator armor on an industrial scale has become a desperate hope in the minds of the tech priests whose understanding of science and technology is significant comparative to most of humanity but has still been steadily decaying for the last 10 000 years if a new suit is ever produced like i said it occurs over a great many years and requires significant careful fabrication across multiple forge worlds by the mechanicus so the existing core relic terminator armor types are as follows firstly the most well-known indomitus terminator armor this is the standard type you see everywhere among the chapters and it is the most common in m41 technically all terminator armor would be classified as a relic even in domitus but this suit is the most widely available and was also one of the later stage designs so i mentioned it only as a point of reference saying that though not every chapter even owns this pattern of terminator armor some chapters only have suits reserved for senior commanders and it tends to be the case still that the more heavy hitting first and second founding chapters are commonly seen to equip a solid contingent among their numbers with indomitus terminator suits the cataphractide pattern of terminator armor is what most people would consider to be true relic armor for this was developed by the mechanicum as their prototype for the later patterns of terminator armor it was the first terminator armor used by the space marine legions and is heavily referenced during the heresy series it's notable for its hulking design to massive double layered curved shoulder pauldrons and the terrorists of adamantium thread that cover the suit's few vulnerable joints in the elbows and thighs i think sometimes people think those are fabric but they're not they're actually adamantium the suit's oversized pauldrons are not without purpose housing additional shield generators but the added weight and power requirements of such reinforced protection comes at a cost in speed and maneuverability the helmet of this armor resembled that used by the mark iii iron pattern suits of power armor and although the use of cataphractii pattern was rare before the horus heresy some legions such as the sons of horus and the iron hands possessed a large number of these suits the iron hands legion subsequently passed on these suits to their successor chapters during the second founding and they're some of the few second founded chapters to own these relics and then we have the considerably rare tartarus pattern armor this was developed adjacent to others in the closing years of the crusade like most suits of this period they're an extreme rarity ten thousand years later the tartarus is debatably the most advanced form of terminator armor ever designed unlike both the cataphractii and endometer suits the tartarus gives an incredible range of movement for its wearer but coupled with no loss in durability or protection the tantrus shares more with some forms of power armor than the other terminator armor but it also has been compared to contempted dreadnoughts especially in the design of the torso plates the tartarus really is a distillation of the best aspects in armor design produced by the imperium and something like the tartarus is likely where the mechanicum had originally been aiming to produce a suit that didn't impede movement significantly but also increased survivability for marines the tartarus was the result of these efforts and were it not for the heresy and scouring that followed we may have seen the tartarus take precedence over the indomitus suits which are now still the primary pattern used in m41 and perhaps there would have been the potential for the tartarus to have been used even more widely for standard marines but unfortunately it was not to be [Music] so those are the three core terminator suits that we might describe as relic but i will note that the custodies and grey knights both also wear specifically designed terminator suits but these are in fact so specialized that i don't think we can consider them truly a part of standard astarte's equipment the custodies use an aqualon and allerus type both of these are as you would expect for the custodies super powerful masterwork designs the best the best the best basically anything owned by the custodies is a masterwork the best the best did i mention it was the best then you have gray knight's aegis armor which again is near enough in dometis armor except that grey knight's armor is specifically inscribed with a complex suite of protective prayers ruined other wards it's also psychically charged by a psycho-conductive matrix to provide better protection against demons other servants of chaos and so on their helmet is also specific to the grainites it's reminiscent again of mark 3 iron power armor lastly and perhaps appropriately before we move on into the last section we have the so-called gorgon pattern terminator armor now this was a variant most similar to the indomitus pattern armor however this variation was specifically devised by the iron hands primark ferrous manus around the beginning of the heresy this suit replaced field generators embedded in standard endometus armor with experimental conversion fields which convert incoming electromagnetic and kinetic energy into bursts of blinding light thus incapacitating and potentially injuring nearby foes however the immense heat and electrochemical toxin fallout produced by these systems required the wearer to undergo extensive bionic surgery in order to wear the gorgonz suits so not especially practical and this eventually saw them almost entirely phased out however the idea of terminator armor being redesigned and customized by primox is something unusual and not something everybody is aware of it also leads us nicely into our next section where we see another variant of a pattern used during the heresy period or so we believe its origins are only speculated at but it is certainly a form that has led too much speculation and confusion so-called saturnine armor [Music] now this whole issue has become needlessly complicated and quite honestly it's no wonder people are so confused and confusion often leads to mythical ore which i think is a reasonable framing for this suit of terminator armor with now something of a cult following a fan euphoria if you will this terminator suit has been rarely referenced illustrated or represented in 40k miniatures since the first edition of 40k yet despite this there remains plenty of discussion surrounding so-called mark 1 terminator armor now first things first i don't know why or when people began attributing these two terms of mark 1 and saturn 9 to this image of terminator armor i suspect that yet again it's another one of those annoying fandom things that somebody just used it and it stuck but i have scoured over a lot of old material and for all that i have read and found there is no evidence for either term being applied for this terminator suit so firstly saturnine armor what is saturnine armor well satellite armor is a thing in 4dk law but it is referenced to my knowledge only in one place that being the forge world heresy books where it's quoted as follows several different terminator armor patterns were developed roughly concurrently by different forge worlds during the later decades of the great crusade including indomitus tartarus and saturnine patterns most of which were functionally identical i will note that cataphractide terminator armor is then listed separately as being quote one of the first issued tactical dreadnought r patterns aka terminator armor to my mind cataphractii was the first true iteration of terminator armor because it was slower and more resilient generally bulkier later they tried to balance maneuverability against its ability to withstand fire and then eventually we would end up with the tartarus suit the tartarus being more mobile but able to withstand just as much damage a small note here it is annoying to me that all relic terminator suits are now listed for tabletop as one unit listing completely ignoring all of their small differences but there we go to my mind it should have stayed as it was previously with all of their stats being essentially the same but the cataphract were moving slower than indomitus and the tartarus moving a little faster before we go on i thought it would be helpful to also answer the question that i've seen before which is who or what is saturnine it's a good question because often i think people think saturn line is a person but satellite it's a strange term and not something you see especially often but like so much of 40k things it gets immediately more confusing just in the spelling alone saturn 9 is first referenced in the supplementary heresy books which describes significant amounts of detail about the forces tech and campaigns of the great crusade and the heresy era these are the so-called red and black books however very strangely here in these older books it's spelt saturnine saturn y n e but in the more recent novels during the siege of terror it is now spelled saturn 9 saturn ine why i have no idea at all they are both definitely referencing the same thing this may well be just a very bizarre continuity error keeping things straight in 40k is already nearly impossible and things like this just add to that confusion because you think well why is that different are they referencing different things is there something that we're missing here if so where is that information and you spend hours scouring trying to find it and then you find nothing so i believe that they're both referencing they're both speaking about the saturnine ordos so satellite is a word generally referencing things originating or related to humans from saturn now wait i hear you cry saturn is a gas planet lutein yes indeed it is apparently humans lived in and around the rings and the moons of saturn serving as their home not on the place itself because it's not a solid planet it's a gas planet so we're just stating the obvious that we are far in the future at this point and presumably these were originally colonized during the golden age of humanity the dark age of technology incidentally saturn in the modern imperium is believed to be the location of the hq of the ordo malleus arm of the inquisition also as i just noted there is a major book in the recent siege of terror series with the title saturnine it's actually a really good and interesting book with a lot of revelations but what saturn is actually referencing in this is mainly a named place on terror being the home planet for humanity many locations and buildings on terror are titled with names drawn from the galactic empire so during the age of strife the rings and the moons of saturn served as the home of an advanced government known as the saturnine ordo this had a powerful military arm known as the saturnine fleet and after this period the miniature empire based at saturn would encounter the fledgling imperium of man as they were branching out through the solar system and thankfully they saw the imperium as a brother empire so a treaty was signed with the emperor that merged the two during the years leading to the great crusade and saturn was well regarded by the imperium it also contributed in the form of the solar auxiliary that i mentioned earlier designed by the emperor from a combination of terror and saturn forces these were one of the most elite disciplined and well-equipped fighting forces widely considered by many second only to the astartes and this force was based upon saturnine's void hoplites and wore saturnine void armor arguably more of an impressive name than it deserved basically a fully enclosed light armored environment suit but saying that it was capable of minor self-healing against small penetrations and lacerations was particularly resilient against radiation and thermal effects which i guess is pretty damn advanced for ordinary human infantry armor another example of where the imperium was during the early crusade comparative to where it is now in m41 i'm pretty sure many a guardsmen would dream of owning an environment suit that protected them was enclosed against hazardous environments also was able to somehow heal their body from all but the most severe wounds i note again perhaps the imperium may be able to return to this state at some point where not for the heresy equipment like saturn and void armor may have become the default for the imperial human soldier [Music] so i wanted to note all of this so that i can then say that there is no reference in any of this history to a saturnine terminator armor also to note the only place it is referenced notes it as being equivalent to existing patterns and that's all in addition there is no actual reference that i have seen anywhere to a mark 1 terminator armor instead i believe that this is referenced in that fashion because all space marine armor is designated in this sequential way and then additionally because the actual miniature of this design originated during the first edition the rogue trader era this has led it to being referenced as mark 1 because it was the first model which appeared although this miniature itself appears to have been referenced simply with the word exo and i believe this was even scribed onto the model's slot base exo of course because it's a suit of exoskeletal armor so both this idea of it being mark 1 and or saturn 9 i believe to be technically fundamentally wrong i should point out the absolute certainty of any of this is very loose and ultimately you can call stuff whatever the hell you like this is more my own cork board connections than it is something more of a straight statement but personally i don't believe this summer type is anything we would describe as being a mark one and i say that for several reasons the main being that like so many things in 40k i think sometimes someone just decided well it was the first edition the first model therefore mark one and that's that and you might think well there's a fair amount of logic to that except for one thing that when i have looked into this further there may be something which goes against that and that's why i don't like just arbitrarily assigning a term to something based on some very loose circumstantial situation now obviously how much do we really want to read into a miniature created in the rogue trader era reality check we probably shouldn't presume that all of this fits into some kind of grand plan or any kind of pre-planned continuity that's almost undoubtedly not the case nonetheless as you know it is seemingly my self-imposed penance to attempt to do so and i'll get to that after this rambling tangent because the bottom line is we have very little if any actual specific descriptive information to these armor patterns saturn 9 or whatever this is and as usual what happens in 40k is that people discuss in circles until nobody can remember what's what and it all becomes very confused and mythic looking at you being blade scout tanks and i will never stop referencing that because it never ceases to annoy me that it were ever something people took seriously now additionally it's curious to me how often people passionately exclaim to me and i'm paraphrasing here but things like humans could never just forget technology latin or human society would never get so confused to become up to a point where they no longer know what's real and what isn't real really as i think the hundreds of real world examples past and present i say to those people how's that working out for you a note to myself uh should make more videos about apocalyptic human societal collapse but keeping it just within 40k consider just how online the law itself is discussed rarely with references usually people saying things like i am sure i remember xyz but i can't recall from where it's immensely amusing to me that the way in which the verse of 40k itself is discussed so perfectly mirrors the galaxy of the imperium the confused blurring of knowledge where everything is passed down through spoken word hearsay inaccurate re-quoting rumor exaggeration and anybody who speaks out against the accepted is declared a heretic and burned alive it's very comical to me and as much of you know it also annoys the hell out of me i'll take widespread confusion and blurred rumors though over excessively anal argumentation about what is or isn't canon because that so much anyway what the hell was i supposed to be talking about oh yeah terminator armor so what seems to get people so fiery is this imagined version of a so-called mark 1 armor aka not mach 1 armor probably in part because it looks kind of cool and epic but simultaneously quite derpy so it fits perfectly into that slot of 40k itself being epic and simultaneously kind of derpy to make any sense of it we need to break out of the law and consider that during the very first edition of 40k like most things in this period miniatures were really being kind of tested out and designs were quickly consigned to the fog of imperial history especially with the coming of second edition now although it was some 30 years ago the coming of second edition of 40k really is still the foundation of modern 40k and while rogue trader was undoubtedly something some people seem to get weirdly defensive about despite it being very quirky and essentially a completely different game system it speaks volumes that when the second edition arrived games workshop near enough cleared the decks when it came to miniatures terminators were completely redesigned as were dreadnought space marines near enough everything else but here's the kicker space marines and even terminators were actually redesigned before the release of second edition just before it in fact this unusual design of terminator that we see only existed for a period of about five months that's all between the end of 1987 and the spring of 1988 then terminators were redesigned as a proto-indomitus style format in the space hulk game and then not long after eventually they would become the white metal terminators that remained the same for decades the raw reality is that this is not a mark one or some special pattern necessarily it's an oddity from a strange time when things were in a very fluid state either way people still have had this immense thirst for this very odd looking terminator suit design presumably because it looks absolutely bonkers the gigantic shoulder pauldron arch its weird hulking body it's a really interesting design piece and really seems to ignite people's imagination much like the forces of creek it has a curious ability to really fire people up and either one would very much happily look forward to seeing this terminated design be created somewhere in the future officially even if it was say a standalone feature model of a lost imperial relic or you know perhaps i'll take the idea sculpt my own i know that people have been making their own versions of these ones for ages and i'm sure that would only take me hundreds of hours so where does this leave us well i do not think it's at all clear still just where this oddity of terminator armor fits there's no existing model for it so we have no idea what it would be classified as i do not believe it's a saturnine pattern as there's quite simply no evidence for that association furthermore the only place saturnine is described speaks about it being essentially the same as other terminator armor of the period tartarus and indomitus and given those suits were quite comparable it wouldn't make any sense for something as huge and hulking as this really odd design of terminator armor it's about as incomparable as you could imagine but instead i will perhaps blow some of your minds if you hadn't read the heresy novel series all the way through including the short story collections then you might be unaware that this pattern of terminator armor may well not be some ancient proto terminated design but instead it possibly was designed as an experimental terminator suit by a primark during the crusade era similarly to the previously mentioned gorgon pattern and i say this because this huge pauldron terminator suit from the original first edition of 40k is seemingly referenced in the book shattered legions this is a collection of heresy stories and specifically within the story deeds endure but more interestingly this is also accompanied specifically with an artwork which is very clearly this pattern of terminator armor now in a section of the short story an iron hand centurion is welcomed aboard a salamander's vessel as this excerpt describes twenty figures were silhouetted against the light far bulkier than any normal space marine as his eyes adjusted kratos recognized terminator armor but unlike anything he had seen in a long time the wall plate of the terminators was far broader and taller than standard legionary power armor and these had an additional exoskeletal frame carrying slanted plates of extra armor all decorated in the dark green livery of the salamanders the iron hands had numerous experimental suits of terminator armor with modified heavy weaponry and ablative shields what stole the curse from kratos lips was the additional weapon systems mounted across the backpacks and shoulders of the terminators a plethora of armor-piercing missiles last cannons multi-melters and a conversion beamer were all pointing in his direction each was quite literally a walking tank the next thing that occurs is the iron hand centurion kratos is welcomed aboard the ship via an intercom and the salamanders marine then explains how these suits were designed by vulcan himself and were about to be sent to the surface of istvan when the massacre began the primark apparently ordered them not to be sent to prevent the traitors from capturing them so even with the supporting artwork the description is near enough spot on the design from first edition describing them specifically as terminators but being broader taller additional slanted plates of armor aka the huge pauldrons so case closed mystery solved it's not mark one it's not sat nine feel free to tell anybody who says otherwise they're flat wrong but also let's remember that terminator armor was meant to have originated from the dark age of technology for heavy industrial or zero atmosphere repair suits for operating the most hazardous of conditions like a dense debris field and so on essentially a situation where you want to be able to move around be practical so it would be surely completely mad to assume that such a quirky style of suit would be the basis of this or indeed at all practical for such purposes although i guess it's worth noting that the emperor likely took elements of whatever the original design was and then adapted them but still it's hard to believe that a design from the dark age of tech would end up looking so derpy when this was a far more advanced age so those two things need not necessarily align also for the sake of saying it this armor was seemingly adapted by vulcan we do not have any specifics about how much it was adapted and also kratos does note that the terminator was not like anything he had seen in a long time he didn't say that it was unlike anything he had ever seen now how much do you want to read into that will perhaps be the next question maybe these suits were as speculated a proto terminator armor or perhaps he was just simply referencing large exo suits that were already quite rare during the heresy and crusade era it may well be just as simple as that an offhand comment in truth until we have some more information until we perhaps see a version of saturnine armor that is different to this we really can't know because despite some references to the country i have been unable to locate like i said any specific references to numerical mark terminator patterns of one two three whatever if that changes or somebody can show me otherwise then we can discuss it again and if that were the case then likely we might consider this to be a proto armor type but as i had noted the fact that this model came first in terms of it being first in the rogue trader era it's kind of irrelevant in terms of where it's placed in the law just because the model came out first doesn't mean in the law that that actual pattern that design came first that's not how it works but recently games workshop announced some more 30k models from the crusade the heresy era but obviously those models are not sequentially superior to the stuff which has just came out like primaris so the relationship between the real world releasing of models has no bearing on how those should be ordered necessarily in the context of the law the only armor type we can be sure semi originated in a sequential order and that has been clearly and repeatedly documented reliably is that of marines power armor we can chart that very easily from the rise of the emperor through to the indomitus era and that is marked one two three etcetera the same can't be said for terminator armor because they're usually named indomitus cataphracti they don't go by a system of one two three four perhaps that's partly due to its rarity it's not exactly standard issue equipment and to lose even one suit of terminator armor is a total catastrophe for a chapter in terms of this unusual terminator suit i think the end conclusion here is that what we have is an oddity that appeared for a very short period of time and then disappeared its inclusion decades later as a smaller side in this heresy was perhaps an effort to simply place in context an unusual but endearing model for the audience ultimately whatever you want to call it is absolutely fine but for myself if you were going to call it anything at least call it something where there is even a shred of reference for so not saturnine vulcan pattern would be as good as anything else will we ever see it as an actual model who knows probably not but then we are still left to consider that in theory there exists these other patterns like i said the actual saturnine which we still kindly have no real description for or visual of will we ever see that either given the state of the imperium and the all-consuming rot and decay that continues to pervade human civilization it seems ever more possible we will never find out any of these things for even if the information does exist by the time it could be discovered it may well no longer exist and it's hard to see how the imperium and humanity will ever be able to drag itself up out of the situation it has created for itself but a lot is at stake right now and beyond that there are also rumors of the emperor himself stirring it's been spoken of for millennia but now there is the very real possibility that the emperor may begin to return what that means for the imperium and humanity is entirely unknown and potentially greatly problematic given all we know currently about the state of the galaxy and the threats which are already apparent and visible for the imperium and its defenders crafting or potentially inventing ever more powerful armor and weapons can certainly be no bad thing for all concerned at the same time saying that centurion kratos after seeing the vast hulking suits created by vulcan exclaimed that it is not the arm or weapons that makes the warrior it is the spirit [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] you

Channel: Luetin09

Views: 547,367

Keywords: Gaming, Discuss, Channel, Future, 40K, Warhammer 40K, Imperium, Humanity, Mankind, Doom, Fall, Space Marines, Heretic, Heresy, The Emperor of Man, Lore, History, Guide, Warhammer 40000, Warp, Immaterium, Rift, War, Slaughter, Horror, Nightmare, Tabletop, Inquisition

Id: XB2fjqy3GVw

Length: 44min 57sec (2697 seconds)

Published: Thu Aug 26 2021