13 Year Olds Murder Grandma For $155

at first I wasn't wanting to we attacked her I didn't really want to do it as much I didn't want to do it her whole topic was like gone her whole what was gone a few years ago the whole top of her head where did you hear that first swing and take the head but I didn't feel good we were freaking out this is 13 year old Antonio Barbeau and his friend 13 year old Nathan pop the pair are enjoying a good meal and some conversation at a local pizzeria this footage seems innocent enough however once it's revealed exactly how they ended up there your entire perception of this video will change on Tuesday September 18 2012 78 year old Barbara Olsen didn't show up at her daughter Judy offit's house as she normally did mostly every morning when Barbara failed to appear again on Wednesday morning Judy became concerned for her elderly mother Judy placed several phone calls to Barbara in the following hours but they all went unanswered by the afternoon she'd still receive no word from her mom Barbara lived just a few miles away from her daughter in the town of Sheboygan Falls Wisconsin so Judy made her way to her mom's house later that very same afternoon she lifted the garage door so that she could attempt to go into the home through the garage entrance her mother's car was missing from inside but what she did find made her run to a neighbor to call the police please send an ambulance to the police my mother is laying in the garage and there's a lot of blood and there's a blanket over her head how did the towel how did the blanket get over her I have no idea and how old is your mother she's um 78. and is she breathing I don't know if a blanket is over her head and I can't look okay who's here with you I hope you got the neighbor okay can the neighbor check if she's real you don't have to go in love go and check if she's breathing okay I'm working on it I need to know if she's breathing Barbara was lying motionless inside her garage a blanket covering her face with no shoes on her feet her arms and hands appeared badly beaten a trail of blood stretched from her body back into the house through the doorway that connected the garage to the interior of the home had the blanket been removed from Barbara's head the sight would have been enough to scar Judy for the rest of her life underneath the cloth was a black plastic bag that had been placed over Barbara's head and secured around her neck with a black belt had the bag been removed Judy would have seen that her mother's head was so severely crushed that parts of her face were either missing or indistinguishable the top portion of her head was all but gone the hunt for Barbara's killer began Barbara Olson was a volunteer driver for elderly citizens in Sheboygan Falls an avid Gardener and described by her family as generally peaceful and positive she simply wasn't the kind of person who would have had any enemies which left detectives without any real leads however conversations with Barbara's family as well as a few odd pieces of surveillance footage secured from multiple establishments around the area landed detectives in front of two 13 year olds Barbara's great-grandson Antonio Barbeau nicknamed Tino and his friend Nathan or Nate pop investigators were hoping that these two middle schoolers could help them get to the bottom of who mercilessly executed Barbara Olsen and why the following interrogation footage has never been seen before the first thing detectives do is remove Antonio's handcuffs likely in order to make him more comfortable and build rapport with him before the interrogation begins prior to him entering the room detectives have intentionally pulled Antonio's chair away from the table this way they have a clear view of his whole body which will allow them to more effectively read his body language all right first of all can I get your name it's Antonio Barbo is that how you pronounce it okay how old are you 13. all right so what grade are you in school mid 8th and you can understand everything that I'm saying so far correct or do you know what day it is of the week uh I think Thursday okay detectives are asking some basic questions to get him talking and establish a behavioral Baseline we've been involved in a serious investigation okay um there's a lot of different people that have been talked to already about this serious investigation and you're one of them we want to talk to hoping that you can clarify some things okay all right because you're sitting in here I do have to read your rights okay all right Antonio appears relatively calm and unemotional for someone his age finding themselves in this position this is likely not his first run-in with law enforcement do you understand each of these rights okay realizing that you have these rights are you now willing to answer questions or make a statement basically listen to me and answer the questions so that we can hopefully clarify some things okay okay Antonio might understand the literal meaning of his Miranda rides but he's likely too young to understand the repercussions of speaking without an attorney being present if a minor understands their Miranda rides they have the ability to wave them however a court will review the situation more carefully than a waiver by an adult before admitting an incriminating response into evidence the prosecution must know that the miner understood the situation and their rights and the waiver was voluntary knowing and intelligent the court will take into account the age and intelligence of the minor and any coercive or deceptive tactics by law enforcement as well as the emotional state of the minor at the time if a parent or Guardian was not in the room a minor may not have understood their rights or may have felt more pressure to cooperate with law enforcement um there was a serious incident involving your great grandmother I believe do you know who that would be um I said yeah I think it is uh then grandma Barb okay what's her is it grammar or Great Grandma I just say driver but is she a grandma or hey Grandma okay do you know anything at all about what may have happened to her have you heard anything do you know anything at all no what happened okay well like I said it's a serious incident she's not doing that well and I'll get more to it later as far as possibly as far as the other people that we've talked to what came up so okay this is a strategically placed statement by the detectives it lets Antonio in on the fact that detectives have spoken with other people before speaking to him this leaves him to wonder what they already know the detectives will likely reveal what information they've gathered piece by piece as the interrogation progresses in order to see if Antonio's story changes all right so you don't know anything about when's the last time you saw your game great grandma it usually indicates that someone is experiencing a negative emotion when their lips seem to disappear such as Antonio Zar here disappearing lips doesn't mean someone is being deceptive it just suggests that they're likely feeling anxious or upset telling a lie can be anxiety provoking for many people as they don't know whether they will be believed or not since we already know that Antonio is lying about when he last saw his great-grandmother we can presume that his disappearing lips are due to stress from being deceptive I don't know I've been in trouble the past like a month or two I'm thinking at least a month ago so last time you saw ours at least a month ago yeah and do you remember where that was that you saw her no in response to this question Antonio's hand flies up to his face pulling or pushing on one's face is known as facial Distortion it's an adapter Behavior to release nervous energy and self-soothe given that Antonio is covering one of his eyes it could also be a form of eye blocking which is a behavior that people may do when they are presented with something they perceive as negative it's a way to put distance between themselves and whatever they're hearing or seeing when an interrogation first begins detectives will start with basic questions so they can get a feel for how the suspect responds to low pressure questions they will then compare that behavior to how the suspect acts with higher pressure questions like about the crime that has occurred Antonio's Baseline Behavior involved very little movements and he appeared relatively relaxed however as soon as questions about his great grandma started he began showing signs of stress the detectives will likely interpret this as a deviation from his Baseline behavior and therefore an indication of possible deception when's the last time where you were at her house grandma or great grandma Barb Olson probably last time I went over there to work for her it was probably about two months ago uh I remember I went over there I put some leaves here when asked again about his last interaction with his great-grandmother we see more touching of the face and neck and very subtle movement of the leg these are physical signs of increased anxiety and potential red flags of deception these movements indicate the person is likely feeling stressed which could be because they're lying picture always leaves in the garage like a lot rather than the short answers he's given so far Antonio delves into a detailed explanation about the yard work he'd previously done for his great-grandma likely because it's a true story these kinds of Behavioral deviations are exactly what detectives are looking for um guess what two months and that was it your great grandma's house yeah so do you know where that is do you know the address by any chance or no there's no address do you know what street it's on or anything well the only thing I know is it's in Sheboygan Falls and then like I know the area that it's in but I don't know the address to it okay um and you were talking about getting in trouble and stuff what what do you what are you here for I'm here for Antonio seems to give this particular question quite a bit of consideration before answering he even repeats the question first which is a common tactic used to stall for time well I'm here because I ran from social care one where I had to go to social care all right because I remember it uh I was like my mom saw me like if I was like really good and all that I'd get out sooner all that type of stuff and then I was there for like a week and a half and like half a week before that I was talking to my social worker she said only a few days so then after that other half a week um I asked my mom do you know what I'm getting out like a few days or something and she's like your social worker said that it's me at least another two weeks so I didn't like that so I left okay the fact that Antonio ran from social care in the first place essentially because he didn't like being there gives detectives a good idea of the kind of kid he really is defiant and insubordinate with a complete disregard for authority do you know what you were doing Monday where you were at where you were staying were you at home or were you on Monday during the date I'm not sure I was sleeping until like at least two and then I started walking around where did you so Sunday night you slept Antonio begins furiously scratching his leg a new stress adapter skin scratching is closely associated with stress when a person is feeling pressured the body sends signals to immune cells to release chemicals like histamine which can trigger inflammation and cause itching most adults are aware that a lot of fidgeting can make themselves appear anxious and as such might try to stifle those behaviors in order to appear more innocent a young teen on the other hand May lack inside into their own behavior and may not realize that detectives are analyzing their every move aware of his discomfort detectives press forward with questioning about what exactly he did over the weekend where were you sleeping at Sunday night I was to see where I wasn't home it's peculiar that Antonio's having a hard time recalling this information considering that Sunday would have only been four days prior rather than trying to remember it's more likely that he's trying to think of a suitable answer to give detectives um quite sure I stayed at a friend's house that night red flags go up as Antonio Resorts back to giving undescriptive and vague answers an indicator that he might be nervous about this particular line of questioning or withholding information note also the pitch of his voices he answers quite sure I stayed at a friend's house that night this is called upward or Rising inflection when someone's statement ends on a higher pitch than it started this often happens when someone is asking a question or if they aren't sure about what they're saying it's a red flag that Antonio's inflection Rises when he's making this statement because most people would be able to confidently answer whether or not they stayed at a friend's house a few nights ago as he finishes this statement he looks directly at the detective possibly to see if the detective seems to believe what he said well today's Thursday it wasn't that long ago right so do you know which friend it was that you stayed at Sunday night I'm going to say probably Nathan and what's his last name it's pop we have to pause here what Antonio doesn't know is the detectives have already spoken to his friend Nathan at length about what happened on Monday afternoon in fact detectives that paid Nathan a visit at his home only the day before to discuss the ongoing investigation it turns out that Nathan told a completely different version of what happened on the night of Monday September 17th now detectives are left to determine which of the two is lying the following interrogation takes place on Wednesday September 19th just hours after Barbara was found um we're here to talk with you and we want to talk to you because we understand that you are friends or somehow associated with a person uh by the name of Antonio Barbo yeah Tino I understand he goes by the name Tino yeah okay so you're friends with Tino yeah okay when's the last time you think you uh you saw Tino yesterday yesterday and where was that at um just down on the corner of the stock did you expect to see him when you were leaving your house no did you know that uh Tino was a runaway yeah do you know how long he had been a runaway for yeah since last week Friday and did he run away from home or is he does he live at his house uh he was in shelter here in shelter care yeah okay and he had to stay for another two weeks and he decided just to leave and that was like right after school he started to ruin because his mom picks him up so he just decided to go on the other side of the building okay so in that time frame between Friday when he ran away after school until yesterday uh did you see him in that time frame between that Friday yeah when did you see him Sunday and Saturday and yesterday so you saw him every day since he ran away yeah pretty much there's a second of hesitation before Nathan reveals that he'd been with Antonio on Monday in the day of the murder he was likely debating whether to lie or be honest about seeing Antonio that day not only is he being stared down by police but he likely knows that Antonio is in custody already what he doesn't know is whether he's spoken to the police already or what all he might have told them until one of my neighbors who was actually related to me noticed it anyways huh notice that I was like staying at his house when there was a warrant out for my arrest and when was that again the day that I got picked back up would be two days ago both boys tell the same story that Antonio stayed at Nathan's at night on Friday Saturday and Sunday and that they spent their days just walking around oh no Monday I remember Nathan had to go to school so I was sitting in the house all day yeah yeah I was watching TV most of the day like she can check the records he was at school and all that I remember I was sitting there watching TV most of the day until he got home rubbing the front of the neck is a common soothing technique as it stimulates the vagus nerves and sends signals to your brain to slow down your heart rate people do this subconsciously when they're feeling insecure or threatened in addition to the excessive neck rubbing Antonio tells detectives they can check the school's records to prove that Nathan was at school on the day of the murder this is an example of a qualifying statement or an add-on that is meant to increase the credibility of a claim however qualifying statements are ironically a common indicator of dishonesty I'm quite sure we just walked around a little bit came back watched TV because it was already late by then and this is Monday what afternoon or evening or what yeah like around after school did you stay overnight again Monday night then yeah Monday night I said and then Tuesday I think he decided not to go to school but I didn't know that till I woke up and then uh uh we got up so walking around Antonio is recalling a lot of detail about his time at Nathan's house when just a few minutes ago he appeared to be struggling to remember where he was on Sunday night this type of a mission can be considered an example of memory of extremes which describes when a suspect remembers details of less pertinent events but will then claim to be unable to recall details of an event that occurred say only four days ago and then that's when Ethan came over like he was like Hey you know like I'm chief of all that type of stuff and then she was kind of like next to me a little behind me so I didn't see it and he just like grabbed me and then he just yells I got him I remember then um they called my mom she came picked me up she talked with my I think it's attorney and then she talked with him and he said just to stay at my house for the night um and then in the morning just to come over there and then we'd have our like um session or whatever it was like what we're talking about the case Okay so uh we went to my house stayed there for the night that was Tuesday yeah and then yesterday morning at I think like 9 30. we went there and then we talked with him about my case and then a huge check and see if there was warrants for my arrest which there was still in uh he was talking to my social worker and then I came here and they said today at 11 15 I have my hearing deciding where I go who else does Daniel hang out with um anymore you know why they don't hang out anymore he broke into this house before who broke into whose house special Antonio's pattern of shamelessly violating the rights of others is another sign of possible conduct disorder it's usually diagnosed during childhood and can be a precursor for antisocial personality disorder as an adult kids with conduct disorder consistently display Behavior such as aggression towards people and animals destruction of property deceitfulness or theft and the frequent violation of rules though he checks off multiple boxes to our knowledge Antonio has not been diagnosed with conduct disorder what do you know about that Nate I know he took money and I don't remember the times how long haven't they been friends did this happen right after he broke into the house it happened a while ago but I think they just found out they set up cameras so he broke into their house more than once yeah do you know how many times that uh four four times that Tino broke into Nick's house yeah how do you know that Nathan is very evasive about his involvement in breaking into Nick's house up until this point he talked about the break-ins as if Antonio was acting alone he only confessed to being there when he was directly questioned about the information he knew he seems to be trying to deflect all the responsibility onto Antonio when he was also present and very likely complicit in the crime were you caught on camera too then Nate yeah being entangled in this many legal issues at such a young age is an indication that these behaviors likely would have continued and developed into a criminal career without the proper intervention the greatest thing of note here is that Nathan has engaged in criminal Behavior with Antonio multiple times before they've begun to establish a pattern of behavior that the two of them have when they're together the combination of their personalities might have made them capable of doing things together that they might not have done alone after almost an hour of being interviewed it's suspicious that Nathan hasn't inquired as to why the detectives are there even more odd is the fact that Nathan's mother is present it hasn't spoken up in any way to protect her son request an attorney or ask any questions this is a possible indicator that Nathan and his mom are used to dealing with law enforcement in relation to his past conduct so you guys got caught on camera a couple weeks ago yeah did Nick or Nick's Family call the police yeah so she ran away on Friday you talked about when you saw Almanac and uh I mean aside from the times that he stayed overnight at your house on Saturday and left on Sunday it seems like it was pretty limited she guys didn't have an opportunity to go out and get into any trouble did you yeah okay you guys didn't do anything against the law together since Friday no did he tell you that he did anything against the law no the detective is hoping that Nathan will take the bait and at least admit to Antonio having done something illegal but he continues to deny at this point detectives have dedicated about an hour to asking ancillary questions once she begins digging deeper into the crime in question there's a good possibility that either Nathan won't be as generous with information or that he or his mother might request a lawyer with those possibilities in mind the detective is likely making sure that she extracts all the information she can get out of him before the real questioning begins and Nathan's mom when was she around because she worked or shares work but it's sometimes varies she does a lot of overtime otherwise I think she works Monday to Friday to like three I think Antonio seems to know a considerable amount about Nathan's Mom's work schedule he even notes her occasional overtime this knowledge has probably helped him and his friend Nathan sneak around in the past would there be any reason at all that some of these people that we've talked to would have said that you would have not necessarily been at Nathan's on Monday afternoon no because no one knew where I was that's why I was missing okay were you were you on any vehicles at all at any time do you have any other friends that have cars or vehicles of any kind that you were with uh innate see I remember Nate's mom has a car and he took the black out of the car and I was in it once and we went one time around the block Antonio may be trying to appear open and honest by confessing to the relatively insignificant crime of underage driving in reality he's only emphasizing his disregard for rules and the safety of others his ability to get away with Reckless activities of this caliber is evidence of an apparent lack of Parental supervision Antonio is being raised by a single mother which makes it nearly impossible to have eyes on him every hour of the day if a single parent doesn't have a strong support system with which to raise a child there is a significantly higher risk of that child developing behavioral issues of some sort the time his mom spends at work or taking care of other matters explains these wide Windows of opportunity that Antonio has to engage in these illegal and dangerous activities yeah what kind of a car is that it's pretty crappy red car I don't know what it's called I assume it's not a new car it's an older one yeah it's an older car and then when was that that Nathan drove around you were at um I think Sunday and Nathan was driving it you were in it where did you go then just just around the black ones would there be any reason at all that when we've talked with people and like I said we've talked to a bunch of people and we're still talking to people that anyone would say that you would have been at your grandma's great grandmas I'm sorry no I had no reason to but detective asks Antonio what's known as a bait question to see how he'll respond or if he'll at least admit to being close to the crime scene it's interesting that his answer emphasizes the idea that he had no business in that area rather than a simple no she like people would have known I was there I wouldn't have just randomly been there so you're straight out saying than you had said before that the last time you saw her at all was at least a month ago yeah um so you would straight out be saying that if anybody said that they specifically saw you at your great grandma Barb Olson's house anytime within the past two three weeks or something that they're lying yeah the suspect clearly seems unconfident in his answer here innocent individuals are usually definite and forceful in their answers especially if they're being accused of something on the other hand individuals who aren't completely guilt-free will give characteristically vague and weak answers that display their uncertainty do you know if any of the people that live by your great grandma know you from from seeing you there or anything you know okay so I don't know any of them would there be any reason that somebody would say that they saw someone about your size height with that type of a haircut at your great grandma's house within the past week in the past wow it's unclear whether anyone truly told police that they saw someone who looked like Antonio around Barbara Olson's house police will often reference evidence that they don't actually possess in order to get a suspect to confess this maneuver is both legal and commonly used in the interrogation of suspected criminals okay so you're straight out saying that you weren't there and they must be mistaken or lying or something yeah do you have any enemies that for any reason at all would would lie about something like that especially if there was a serious incident involving your great grandma that they would want to point the police to you basically not really for sure not in the Falls because I barely go there and then Sheboygan I really don't have that many enemies I tend to get along with most people pretty easily do you have a job or anything that you can make money or you get paid an allowance or anything like that we were talking about allowance but then like I started getting in trouble and then we never really finished it like finished talking about it the detective suspects that there might be a financial motivation behind what happened to Antonio's great-grandmother so so if you need something if you need new clothes if you want some soda if you want something like that does your mom give you the money or how does that work or you just don't get it or what um like if it's not that that much my mom will usually get it but otherwise I really don't get stuff Antonio's answer indicates that he comes from a low-income household oftentimes young people who commit theft and similar crimes do so largely because of deprivation this is concerning when combined with the fact that Antonio has demonstrated that he has no problem breaking the law in order to get his way if I were to tell you that your great grandma barbosam was killed would that surprise you this could be the freeze response when someone encounters a threat they may stop all movements so they don't draw unnecessary attention to themselves most innocent individuals would Express shock surprise or sadness adhering that a family member was killed but Antonio appears to be Frozen and shows no visible reaction someone who's guilty may feel panicked when they find out the victim has been found because they're worried about getting caught momentarily freezing is one way the body handles stress until the brain can kick in and decide what the best course of action is would you have any idea at all how that could have happened no no idea at all no I take it you're not real close to her as far as hearing that news and just I mean as I said I never like talk to her that often as I said as a referral statement it may be used by suspects to make their story sound more credible referral statements build on the idea of repetition the more you hear something the more believable it may seem Antonio needs to find a way to explain why he doesn't appear upset about his grandma he may think that if he can convince the detective that he wasn't close to her this will explain his lack of emotion it's important in this moment to remember that Antonio isn't the conventional suspect he's only a teenager thus the state of development that his brain is in plays a big part in his actions and reactions teenagers can be very self-centered and this can be due in part to the fact that the prefrontal cortex the rational part of the brain doesn't fully develop until one is in their mid-20s the prefrontal cortex is responsible for logical thinking and the comprehension of how one's decisions affect other people therefore it's entirely possible that though it's a tragic event Antonio doesn't feel that his great-grandmother's death affects his everyday life and doesn't yet have the cognitive ability to clearly see how it will affect other people which explains his emotional Detachment from the situation though this can't possibly explain his reaction or lack thereof in its entirety it's worth noting hey I did a little bit but not that much um do you use drugs at all any kind of drugs I have done drugs yeah okay when's the last time you used any kind of a drug at least a week ago the detective is clearing the possibility then Antonio might have been on drugs at the time of the murder if he would have committed this crime in an intoxicated state that could open the possibility for Antonio to use the diminished capacity defense in court and what would that have been just sweet um you haven't used any weed at all since about a week ago something like that yeah so again if I came and said that we've talked to people that have mentioned that you were smoking marijuana within a week like within a day or two what would you know how I would know because when I do do it it's usually just by myself and like somewhere where no one is around so if somebody was talking that said that they sold you weed within that week that would be a lie yeah okay and if you would take a blood test or something that's going to come back and show that it's been at least a week yeah this is a misleading statement from the detective no drug test including a blood test can reveal exactly how long it's been since the suspect lasted drugs rather a drug test tells conclusively whether a person has done drugs within a certain time frame based on whether traces of the drug are still present in their system a blood test specifically can tell whether or not a person has smoked marijuana within the last three days or up to a week for heavy users if you've ever been that card I think I've been in the back before if she's like bringing me to a modern Grandma's house that soon she might involves but that would have been a really long time ago like what are we talking a year or like four or five months ago but it was at least four or five months since you were in that vehicle yeah it's been a really long time so if if we get evidence and I'll tell you right now we have that vehicle and it's going to be able to show as far as fingerprints or whatever probably that you've been in there within four to five months if this claim sounds outlandish that's because it is it is not possible to date fingerprints this is likely another lie to intimidate Antonio into confessing in recent years States across the country have begun to acknowledge that lying to minors in an interrogation is coercive and poses a much higher likelihood of yielding a false confession than if the suspect were an adult some States insist that suspects under 15 years of age have a parent guardian or other interested party present with them during questioning this is because typically young offenders don't fully understand the gravity of the situation or their right to remain silent which automatically gives the detective the upper hand in a situation just like this I just want to make sure you're pretty sure that's the last time you were in there right okay so they shouldn't show that correct yeah yeah it shouldn't show it yeah okay any of your friends ever been in that car that you're aware of I have no idea I don't think so they actually the only friends you've even talked about is Nathan I think right yeah rubbing or covering the eyes as another indicator of possible deception as it can be a subconscious attempt to hide from the detective or the situation as a whole before you stayed is he ever been in that car that you're aware of and I'm assuming you would have been with them right or does he know your great grandma I think he's in there once that's your great grandmas yeah I think a lot of times when I was working he went with and do you remember ever being in your grandma's car great grandma's car I'm sorry Barb Olson's car with your friend Nathan in the car too no okay so as far as you know he's never been in that car correct unless he would have been there alone which is that doubtful or probably I don't see how he would have been this is another example of a qualifying statement innocent people typically provide a more direct response such as a simple yes or no instead Antonio is being careful and giving ambiguous answers that he can later turn around and change if necessary so you'd be extremely surprised if he's been in that car right yeah the detective creates a long Silence by pausing to take notes this is also an interrogation strategy as a suspect will often find the quietness uncomfortable and continue talking in order to break the awkward silence however it seems that Antonio has nothing else to say it's worth noting that the interrogation has been going on for over half an hour and Antonio hasn't pressed the issue of what exactly happened to his great-grandmother how she was killed or who could have heard her this line of questioning is often lacking when a person is guilty they simply don't think to ask because they already know what happened so what's the most recent time you would have been in your grandma's bedroom do you think probably to go to the bathroom which would have been last time I was working and that was a month or so ago yeah yeah so that would have been when I went in there goes to the bathroom all right and as far as being in your grandma's room would you have just gone in there to get to the bathroom yeah let me I would have used to tune to the bathroom like going from there went to the bathroom came back out one around and you've never seen um like if she kept her jewelry on a counter or what she would keep it in anything like that if you have any idea at all um it's about to take a guess I'd say they're bedroom like everyone else Antonio is yawning frequently he could be experiencing excessive tiredness in relation to his marijuana usage or he could genuinely be sleeping poorly in such uncomfortable conditions an alternative explanation for the yawning could be a heightened level of anxiety which can be relieved by delivering more air into the lungs in fact in just the last 30 seconds Antonio has pursed his lips yawned sniffled touched his face and scratched both his neck and the back of his head this is the exact kind of behavior the FBI looks for when interrogating a suspect for your more stress adapting behaviors and quick succession is considered a heavy indicator of deception Antonio has exhibited basically every body language Behavior possible for heightened levels of anxiety and stress I know I think I've seen a few things on top of her dresser when I walked by that's all I really remember about it could there be any reason that um you would break to somebody or anything about um stealing a car within the past couple weeks no and again is there any reason that somebody would say that I don't really know instead of outright denying this time Antonio claims he doesn't know his answer to each Bay question seems to be getting more and more uncertain as the interrogation drags on I haven't said that but I don't know why someone would have said it okay would there be any reason that there would be a text or anything that would say something like that yeah I have no idea I haven't had my phone I've never had my phone for like a month now yeah I know each phone doesn't work no no his mom's phone only goes on the internet a little bit did you have a cell phone before I did before like I was getting in trouble I had cell phone when you went to school on Monday what were you wearing black shirt jeans and my shoes another thing I'm thinking if this is okay with you and with your mom is that um just like to take some pictures of your shoes in the bottom of your shoes would that be okay yeah yeah then responds in the affirmative he certainly doesn't seem very enthused about the idea it's likely that while ransacking the home Antonio and Nathan left shoe brands possibly bloody ones at the crime scene photographs they'll take of Nathan's shoes will be compared to the prince found at the crime scene and used as corroborating evidence that he was indeed present at Barbara's house around the time the murder was committed when you got put in here what kind of clothes were you wearing I wear clothes with a lot of designs like a really designed T-shirt with like blue like coloring that was like shiny and then a black like over coat thing that I buttoned down the two bottoms and then I'm quite sure light jeans blue or what yeah like Bluer jeans and then my shoes do you have socks or not I'm wearing mistakes the same ones again yeah if we would look at those shoes would there be any reason at all that we would find any blood on them no and if we would find blood on them what would that be from can you think of anything were you ever near anything in the past couple weeks that there was any blood there not really not that I can think of this is referred to as a selective memory statement statements like these are hard to refute and easy for suspects to go back and change without it being obvious that they're outright lying though vague this is still a strange statement since anyone especially someone with only one pair of shoes would surely remember stepping in blood are you the only person that wears those shoes yeah so you never buy around Nathan you never borrow them to your other friends that you know not anyone the borrow shoes because then I don't have shoes to wear because I don't have one pair would it be okay with you if we took those shoes and checked them for blood um sure but I do have my hearing today so I need them for that otherwise I can't walk have you cleaned them lately at all not really I don't even throw them in a dishwasher you didn't put them on a bunch of bleach on them something like that no I don't like clean my shoes okay all right we'll get back to that I'm not sure but I appreciate you letting us do it and that might help us to clear some stuff up when's the last time you went out to eat anywhere you know to eat actually out someplace not just at Nathan's or at home or something or at school I mean like out to a restaurant or restaurants like that I don't remember the last time I launched a mesh restaurant it had been months ago when's the last time you were at Theo's Pizza suspects May repeat the question in order to give themselves an extra moment or two to think about how they want to respond to a particular question if they didn't have an answer ready and they didn't repeat the question they would be left with an awkward silence this uncomfortable lag and conversation could increase the suspect's anxiety and they may worry that the detective will see their paws as suspicious oh I've been there just like like two days ago maybe three confronted with the exact name of the restaurant Antonio changes his answer as if it had slipped his mind it's hard to believe that someone would have completely forgotten something that only happened two or three days ago So within that two to three months time well no I mean like two or three days right so that's within two or three months that you just said right so oh I guess two or three days ago which if today's Thursday you're saying either Tuesday or Monday um well I guess Tuesday Tuesday I think Tuesday when someone is feeling very stressed their mouth and throat may become dry this can lead to behaviors such as drinking more water increased clearing of the throat or increased licking of the lips do you know about what time oh I'm gonna say like about one this afternoon yeah it's just a guess though were you there alone or it was me and they go to a pizza so how did you guys get to Theo's Pizza it's not that far of a walk so you just walked yeah about how far probably uh about a 30 minute walk and who paid for that what's your mates we had a twenty dollars and where did you get that you know I remember we found that on the floor at his house that day or when I think so well it doesn't sound like you have a whole lot of money so if you found a twenty dollar bill it should stick out right okay so you're pretty sure that it was Tuesday that you found it on the floor at night it was either Tuesday morning when I woke up or it'd be Monday like late at night because I remember and then we were hungry so we decided to go get some pizza because it's not that much money it's only for like 5.25 for a pizza okay um I think basically I'm gonna give you one more chance to tell the truth okay um I've already told you that we've talked with a lot of people okay all right and we've had the State Crime Lab in we have a lot of evidence um you know it's a video world nowadays we have video evidence we have a lot of stuff okay and I'll tell you right now you're not telling me the truth this is another facet of the read interrogation technique called a positive confrontation without being too aggressive the detective is letting Antonio know definitively that they have evidence that proves that his story is untrue the detective puts a little extra pressure on him by advising him that this is his very last chance to tell the truth is there anything at all that you've talked to me about that you want to change your story and tell me the truth or do you want to stay with what I consider a lot of lies and you need to really think about this okay and you need to think about your future you need to think about the potential of being in front of a judge and saying he straight out lied about absolutely everything he never took any credit for anything and said that he had nothing to do with any anything at all as far as great grandma Olsen so think about it for a second let me just make sure here the detective is giving Antonio an incentive to come clean without specifically promising him any leniency by the prosecutor or judge in exchange for his honesty Antonio sits in silence for several seconds presumably thinking of things that an innocent person wouldn't have to think about through phase two Nate and said for your mom to hear too um you've obviously gotten in trouble with Tino before and I don't know if Tino's done anything or not here but it's really important that you take care of you do you understand what I'm saying yeah and not get sucked into uh any any trouble with him you know what I mean yeah okay you understand the seriousness of this right and you understand that you're taking a big roll of the dice here right and apparently you want to try that wait what's what was telling the truth or lying you're telling me that you are straight up telling me that 100 truth about everything that you've told me correct no I want you to clarify then what you haven't been totally truthful about I will sit here and listen to the truth but I'm not going to sit here and listen to a bunch or more lines okay it sounds like you've had pretty pretty tight time of being home here over the last few days but it's really important that if you know even if you know like you weren't there because it sounds like you've been here at home or here at school except for on yesterday that if he told you about something that he did and it doesn't get you into trouble by telling us if he told you things that he did but I don't want it to be any trouble for you if he did tell you that he did something against the law since he's been a runaway since last Friday and I know you don't want to get your friend into trouble but it's it's pretty important that you not try to call her for him you know what I mean you understand what I'm saying okay I want you to tell me the truth of what happened that's all we're looking for is the truth we don't want to pin something on somebody that doesn't deserve to have anything banned on him or her or whatever I want the truth and that's that's what we're going for here okay so what do you want to clarify and tell me the truth about her what else do you want to share with us turn it down can you write it down yeah yeah you can write it down Nathan is basically speaking in a whisper at this point he's likely experiencing symptoms of extreme stress one of them being the drying of his mucous membranes this dryness and the vocal cords can cause someone's pitch to sound different his raspy voice combined with the fact that he doesn't even want to make the statement out loud indicates that whatever he has to say isn't any good okay can he'll give you a piece of paper the room is dead silent but for the sound of Nathan's sobs and the pen scratching against the paper Nathan proceeds to scribble nine words then hands the note to the detective you can understand with what you wrote down it's very scared yeah okay Nathan seems to be having an extreme emotional response to whatever is on that note as it sounds like he's still crying he surely showing more emotion in this moment than Antonio showed throughout the duration of his interview so far and because you wrote that down Nate I want to be able to read Miranda rights to you you understand what I'm saying the need to read Nathan is Miranda rights at this point indicates that whatever he confessed officially places him in police custody realizing that you have these rights are you now willing to answer questions or make a statement yeah I know you wrote that down and maybe you wrote it down because you didn't want her to to hear to hear that is that why you wrote that down okay it's common for juveniles to withhold information when being questioned in front of a parent for fear of disappointing them a parent's presence is more likely to stir up feelings of Shame and remorse that can cause the minor to be dishonest this seems to be especially true for Nathan as he seems to start sobbing uncontrollably when the detective goes to tell his mother what he wrote down so Bobby you heard us read the Miranda rights to your son right okay and you heard us talking with him sitting where you at about basically what he's been up to and his association with Tino and what he's been up to since last Friday when Tino ran away from school right okay and you could hear us talking about that and everything that he's done I know Nate you just wrote that down on the piece of paper because you didn't want your mom to hear right yeah yeah and I know you're really scared right now you said you were with Tino yeah and when was that one day okay so me explain to you that we work with other police agencies on investigations and so so we're working on Investigation involving tinos um it's his great grandma okay and you said you were with Tino on Monday yeah yeah Tino did not go to school on Monday no okay and it was here he was at your house yeah when you left for school on Monday yeah Nathan is now answering questions clearly and without delay indicating that this is likely the true version of events on Monday when you got home from school what happened Nate we were talking and he said I know how to get money me Nate dude Monday and you said just kill his grandma but I think I thought he was just joking around with me okay and then I asked my mom to take us to Sheboygan Falls that I told her that we're gonna beat up one of our friends and then when we attacked her a very interesting choice of words when describing their crime suspects will often use language that makes the offense sound less egregious such as Antonio's use of the word attacked rather than killed you and date attacked her finish both of us with what like Hammer thing and then like a Hamilton with my ex at the other end and what time was it on Monday I don't know like probably like four or five and why why was this done at first I wasn't wanting to like we were in her garage freaking one of the doors just like waiting the garage totally so fit okay the garage door is open at his grandma's house he put over his head but she couldn't see how to do so he just took it off and then right his dad went to open the door to scramble and like walk down and said who's that and she's like is that Tina when she was like No And I'm standing behind the door and she's like tell us because I like stepped on something and then she said if we were cold and that's why we're in the garage and Tina said yeah it's heartbreaking to think that Barbara's very last Act was one of care and concern for the two boys who not even 10 minutes later would mercilessly end her life and then she brought it sooner because she said she was gonna call my mom and I was already missing and wanted with a warrant and I didn't want that done so then yeah Antonio's answer of AIDS the detective's question of exactly why he attacked Barbara his answer explains why he would have chosen that very moment to attack but it doesn't explain what he and his friend are doing at his great grandmother's house unannounced and armed with weapons his true motive will later prove to be one of the most chilling aspects of Barbara's murder so that's your thought process is that you don't want Grandma to call him or great grandma to call him you get the warrant and the police are going to come or whatever yeah okay so what did you have that you attacked your great grandma with there's like an ax looking thing at that so are we saying 12 15 inches something like that probably you know what a hatchet is or not I don't know what a hash it is but it was like an ax but then it had like a flat side on it like a flat metal side nothing they just had a normal Hammer okay did you see him with that hammer yeah that's not a family all right um where did you get this small ax or whatever that you were talking about garage from your garage and where did Nathan get that hammer I think that was just in this house since the boys brought weapons from other locations to Barbara's house and didn't tell Nathan's mom the truth about where they were going it's safe to say that their deadly assault was premeditated what's even more disturbing is how monotone and impassive his description of events is he's still maintaining his same cool demeanor and lack of emotion however Antonio isn't fidgeting nearly as much as he was before this lets detectives know that it's more likely that he's telling the truth now did you guys talk about this as far as what you were going to do obviously if you had a hatchet and he got a hammer and you got a ride from his mom there was some thought about it right what was the discussion we were deciding if and how we were going to do it and then like how we would get a ride there how we get a ride back all that so after your mom dropped you and Tino off by the roundabout at 42 and 28 what happened then Nate we walked to her house to school his grandma in order to get from where they were dropped off to Great Grandma Barb's house the boys would had to have walked about two miles it takes the average person approximately 15 to 20 minutes to walk a single mile this means that the boys had at least a half hour to rethink their decisions before they got to Barbara's dorm and then when we arrived there and we were in the garage I didn't really want to do it as much like I didn't want to do it but then when we were in the house I made all that so then I took the first swing Antonio's claimed that he initially wanted to bail on their plan to attack and Rob his great-grandmother means nothing the two will still be charged with acting in concert to carry out their crime the fact that he took the first swing makes this supposed change of heart seemed even less believable where is your hair it is that first swing take the head and you talked about a flat back and then like the sharp part yeah which way did you hit her the first time you know flat part was there a reason at all or that's just the way it ended up in your hand or what I'm quite sure just because it was a flat part and I thought more blood blunt would work as far as what for hitting just like in general well hitting in general as far as to put her down quicker or what do you mean yeah okay and why did you go there and come up with a plan to do this thank you is mainly just for money a statement filled with such coldness and attachment as if he were talking about a stranger to be willing to end his great grandmother's life in Pursuit Of Money shows a callousness and lack of Consciousness that one wouldn't even expect from a young teenager even worse is the fact that he's able to confess to something so horrid without a hint of emotion or remorse after shrugging Antonio then qualifies his answer with I think which is a red flag for possible deception as the reason he killed his grandma is likely something he does know for sure notice how he says it was mainly just for money which indicates that there was something else he was motivated by as well it's not surprising that he gave this answer though as blaming it on the money is an easier and more socially acceptable answer than saying he just wanted to kill someone all right so you go there to try to get some money and you bring the hatchet he brings the hammer you hit her the first time and where was this were you in the garage or in the house or we're in the house and you said she had let you in did you say yeah right okay um did she know it was you yeah so she saw you and opened the door or what yeah she opened the door like the garage door there's no window that she saw me but she didn't see that I had it like hit me on my back so then she told me to go inside and then like I was just like putting it under my sweatshirt and then she said she was gonna call my mom and then like Nate looked at me and he nodded here he's insinuating that his friend Nathan was the ringleader and driving force behind this attack this could be entirely true or he could be attempting to pass some of the blame off to his friend so that he doesn't look like such a bad guy for having attacked Barbara first so you hit her once with the flat end right yeah did she go right down or did she fight or what happened she think he yelled like once and then I hit her one more time and I think then I ran to the bathroom because I didn't feel good and then I'm quite sure Nate hit her once or twice with his like camera thing and that's about all this part of Antonio's story might be believable were it not for the fact that an autopsy of Barbara Olsen's body concluded that she was hit approximately 27 times in total her wounds indicated both blunt and sharp force trauma a truly brutal and merciless attack so how long were you back in the bathroom here probably about 30 seconds and then what happened and I'm quite sure I went to the front like over here and then she wasn't like alive and we didn't know what to do and we were freaking out and we were probably there for like two hours not knowing what to do um did you ever hit her with a sharp end of the blade I think I gave it I think that they took it from me and then did once like only one time though with a sharp end the title starts hitting it over and over again but when he stopped they looked at me and when he said Nate help Ed him this part of the story presents an interesting contradiction to Antonio's story Antonio alleged that Nathan initiated the attack by signaling to him to attack Barbara then according to Antonio after hitting her twice he ran to the bathroom because he felt sick and Nathan continued to hit her here Nathan claims that Antonio hit Barbara spontaneously and did most of the attacking he even has the same sudden change of heart that Antonio had in his story but claims to have hit her anyway because he feared for his safety both of them are telling versions of the story that make the other appears the ringleader and themselves as the helpless follower however this ultimately won't matter since they're both confessing to have taken part in Barbara's murder so he told me to help oh next Thursday and then he started hearing again and he told me to hit her I didn't want but I didn't want to but I want him hitting me so I hit her and why is it I walked away and he kept hitting there was just dead kennel her address something we he went a lot of round grabbing stuff putting it in a bag and then I had to go in the pockets and grab the keys to the car and he wanted to dump the body of a leg or something but we were selling up to pick her up and put it in the truck and then you sit there for like two hours trying to figure out what to do right yeah what are you throwing back and forth like what you're gonna do here I think you're gonna try to see if there's any way we could like get her into the trunk but that didn't work so then we were sharing like pulling back towards the main door but then we couldn't get up like one of the step seat in the house okay so you took her from the living room and got her to wear them you took her out into the garage by the car and I was at both you and Nathan yeah and then we came here in trunks we just like started pulling we're gonna go to the basement but then we couldn't get up the first stair so then of course we didn't know what to do so we decided just to like leave it there and then go so it was like one of you on the hands and one on the legs or what we were trying to like we like sat out right there and then we tried looking up but like we couldn't even move it a few inches off the ground so we just like stopped trying and then did you go back inside or where are we in this two hour spam we're quite sure we didn't go back inside and quite sure we ran into the back room grabbed like a few of the boxes and all that crap in there and just threw it in the bag then I think we grabbed like three sodas that were in part of the basement right here and then I think we just left and then Nate was driving that car so that's your great grandma's car right yeah it's haunting to know that two 13 year old boys are capable of such a cold-blooded crime not only did they murder a relative but they immediately proceeded to heartlessly rummage through her belongings for things they could take as if they hadn't already taken enough oh card like what it is though okay you know it's that you know that it's your great grandma's car though yeah okay which back room did you say you went into to grab some boxes Center bedroom yeah and what do you mean what kind of boxes hey I'm quite sure I had like jewelry but it all looked like as you said fake you know that and I remember she had like clip-on earrings and all that Antonio's explanation of the crime throws up several red flags it's heavily littered with Selective statements such as I think and I'm quite sure if they'd only use these phrases once or twice it might not have been suspicious however he uses these a half dozen times throughout his recount he also alternates between referring to the body as it and her perhaps this is his attempt to distance himself emotionally from the victim and then we I got in the driver's seat he got the passengers and we opened the garage door drove out and closed it and came back here and where did you drive her car to Nate by Church by a church yeah and then they walked to my house then you came back here yeah and then he went to the purse and grabbed the money and he threw it in the sword British put that bad at night yesterday yeah when we took the car and parked it at some bowling place and then we would because he was hungry so he wanted to buy Theo's Pizza and we ate there and he said just to leave the car there so we bought gloves and wipes to wipe the car down so that our fingerprints off then we just left the car literally walked to my house Nathan is leaving out a particularly interesting purchase that the boys made with the stolen money he's likely emitting this information out of fear that divulging it will make him look even worse in the eyes of the law and Detectives soon we'll find out exactly where the majority of the proceeds from their highest wind so then you go out and you say he drove yeah he drove and where did you go from there then should we take the car we I'm push our park by like some bank that was like two blocks away from his house and we just walked there are two blocks away from Nate's house yeah okay let me walk back to his house I think we were just there for the rest tonight and then the next day is the day he didn't want to go to school so what happens on Tuesday with you guys we went and yeah pizza but we took the car to a place across from McDonald's even park there and then we bought like we went walked Boston Pizza ate then when we were walking back we went and got gloves and cleaning stuff then we went to the car just kind of wiped it down a little bit then left the car keys to the car and then left it like unlocked everything oddly enough Antonio omitted the same detail that Nate did concerning how they use the money neither of them want to admit where most of the money went Remind me again if Gary said it what happened to her purse when we took that and then the actual purse thing I think we threw in our sewer and who threw that on and they did she ran outside and threw it okay was there anything in the purse that you guys took there is money like cash uh nothing else that we kept he just told us a lot of things Okay so and I know you don't want to keep talking about I know it's really hard for you to talk about it but I just have to ask some questions okay at this point the interrogation the detective is going to go back over Nathan's story and ask clarifying questions in order to make sure she has his story correct and also to note any changes he might make to his version of events when did he tell you or show you that he had the hatchet right when you got home from school yeah what what did he say he said she was somewhat Rich that usually gets a credit card pin to take all her money out and but he wasn't gonna kill her right away and she just sort of like scared her and then right here she go go grab for that he's gonna hit her in the back of the head he said that was what his plan was yes Nathan is placing all the planning on Antonio and making himself seem more like a bystander who's just going along with what Antonio says co-defendants often do this in the hopes that they'll get less time since they weren't The Mastermind behind the crime did he have anything else with him whatever a hammer yeah okay did he also get that from his house no here so he had the hammer too well he made me all that Nathan claims that Antonio made him hold the hammer but doesn't say exactly how he made him do this it doesn't seem very plausible or possible that Antonio physically forced Nathan to hold the hammer clearly attempting to downplay his involvement in the crime so you held the hammer and then did you guys take anything else with you no so then your mom you told your mom that you're you're going to see a friend you guys are going to see a friend out there yeah had you been to his grandma's house before yeah you met her before I really Peter he just went there to earn money but he was going to steal the money because he was gonna do like yard work to get paid uh-huh but when he would have died I guess he took a hundred that was another time yes months ago months ago yeah okay according to Nathan Antonio has stolen from his Great Grandma Barbara before this might explain why he was under the impression that she had lots of money or why she was the first Target that came to his mind when he was concocting his plans to get some cash you said you got to her house and the garage door was open do you guys walk in the garage I walk through the garage tried the bags didn't like really work out what were what were you doing with the bags putting over our heads why is that just so she couldn't tell who we were and Nathan's initial telling of the story he claims that only Antonio tried to put a bag over his head to conceal his identity it's not uncommon for suspects to leave things out or lie about Minor Details to save as much face as possible even after they've already confessed to the major details is it did it work out so I gave him my sweatshirt to wear to cover his face did you then hide in the garage or kind of stand off to the side I said she wanted me to open the door to go inside to her house yes so as far as I were to open it it opened and she was standing right there and he's like do you want to come inside and then he said yes we were inside and she's like don't steal none of my money this offhand comment from Barbara to Antonio indicates that she's aware that he's stolen money from her before she'll look at it look at me they looked at her and then she said she's going to call his mom and then right after she said that he hit it on the head he like stumbled to the floor here once to the floor and hit her three more times she said stop it if her hands were in the way I actually probably hit her hands and arms this account coincides with that battered state of Barbara's arms when her body was found she'd spend her final moments pleading with her great grandson not to kill her while attempting to Shield her head and face from The Vicious attack he should need help okay and then he took off the sweatshirt and I was panicking I didn't know if I should do it or not and I don't want him to 13 me so I hated this is a rather large deviation from Antonio's story according to Antonio both he and Nathan only struck Barbara a few times with their weapons Nathan is describing a scene where Antonio is savagely beating his great-grandmother even taking a second to remove a sweatshirt before continuing to bludgeon her to death she are not unconscious and then she started to snore it was here's the sharp shot and shut like hair really hard and it got stuck in there and her whole topic was like calm her whole what was gone up here so I'll call the whole top of her head if nothing else the sheer extent of the overkill seen here is enough to provide evidence of the intent to kill Barbara the attack was simply too brutal to be the result of a robbery gone wrong I started the Panic again and then I was patient back and forth because I didn't really want to do it um he was doing the same he could have liked to tell me to go wipe down the door handles that we touched their choice to clean up after themselves before leaving the scene of the crime is further proof that the two were indeed aware and thinking confidently throughout the ordeal especially Antonio who according to Nathan's story is instructing him on how to cover up the crime scene Nathan's version of the story does a convincing job of painting Antonio as the Evil Genius and when you realize you couldn't lift her back up into the trunk he dragged her back towards the door that goes into the house the two of you yeah okay when did you put the blanket over her body when we realized we could report it with the trunk so we were like gonna wrap her body up and see if we could like have the two ends of the sheet like twisted up so we can like lift it but then it works so he just left it right there next to the doorstep what about her her head and that did you guys um he put plastic bags over it and then he told me to give him my belt and he tied that around her neck why did he do that like so if we could have picked her out so like blood didn't spill everywhere where did he get the the bags from [ __ ] so she'd Gardens a lot she had garbage space and there's like throw weeds in I was actually there and saw your great grandma okay and there was something on her head do you remember what that would have been a bag okay what color black and how did that get there from in the garage there's bags in the garage and why was it put on there because I didn't like seeing it didn't like seeing her face or what yeah or the I don't want to put words in your mouth so what didn't you like seeing everything that happened it's not uncommon for Killers to cover their victim's face if it's a family member friend or partner seeing the face of their deceased loved one might trigger certain emotions that the killer would likely rather avoid the fact that Antonio felt the need to do this indicates that he felt some type of negative emotion when he saw what he did to her possibly due to lingering traces of an emotional attachment or even hints of remorse so that's why did you put the bag on her head I think so yeah and what kept that bag on her head Nate's belt so did he put that on or did you for sure he gave to me and then I did what happened with the hammer see if we put it in the trunk and what about the hatchet the truck okay and the the jewelry The Backs here and the purple bag action and um and there's a bloody coat in the trunk a bloody coat in the trunk yeah that's what we first went over our head he first put the coat over her head yeah okay where were the keys for her car at okay okay and then you said that you got the keys out of her pants pocket what was in the purple bag she had like shoes and camera case with the camera in it and then a wallet and then her purse and then we put like cleaning the wipes in it mm-hmm and that's all we put in that bag if he was just gonna run away and what how much money was there in there cash about I think 150. and where is that some of it went towards food and then um we got pizza and then some of it went towards weed which I think is actually still at his house upstairs if he didn't get it and then I think that's it so all of mine's gone yeah she just took the cash out of there yeah what did you keep from the purse the water just the cash yeah how much weed did you buy 145 Forest who did you buy that from old I don't know who he bought it from Tino brought bought the weed yeah were you with them when he bought it no where did you guys buy it at or where did he buy it at uh who were in high school who actually bought the weed and like almost we were both there Carl did you both actually have the money and give it to whoever you bought the weed from like I had like the money with me like I kept it in my pocket have you bought it from whoever that person is before or no yeah I have Antonio and Nathan managed to steal a mere 155 dollars from Grandma Barbara's house they proceeded to spend all but ten dollars of that money on weed and the rest of it on Pizza both momentary and fleeting desires they enjoyed getting high and having a meal at the cost of a human life their young age is certainly a reason for their poor decision making but their actions go far beyond the self-centeredness of typical teenagers their actions and mindset are very much reflective of children with severe conduct disorder and we woke up the next morning Tuesday morning yeah yesterday morning yeah um decided not to go to school what about the stuff in the trunk we just left it there from the keys are standing on the seat because Tino thought that if somebody should do a Blogspot she's the kids just sitting there that they can take the car and if they find the car and they would have thought he did it this half-baked plan is full of sizable holes it goes to show their immaturity and unsophisticated thinking which is to be expected from offenders of their age and you woke up today and went to school yeah and Tina wasn't at school the UK it's interesting that Nathan resolved to go to school the next day after the events of Monday afternoon he was probably eager to resume his normal life realistically Nathan said goodbye to his childhood as soon as he participated in the murder and he likely felt this do you have any questions for us right now or not um they need you so much time I'm looking at after ending his own great grandmother's life scarring his whole family including his mother and implicating his closest friend Antonio is still only concerned about the consequences that will affect him his fidgeting hands indicate that the amount of time he'll spend in prison is a source of great anxiety for him I don't make that decision obviously there's a district attorney um that is going to file charges and it's up to the judge or jury as far as that but none of us my hearing today or no I'm not sure um I can tell you that you're not going to get out if if you do have the hearing okay because you are going to end up getting charged you realize that right yeah and do you realize what you're getting charged with murder right so first degree intentional homicide of being a great grandma Barbara Olsen you do understand the severity of that right yeah Bobby do you have any questions for us right now no okay it's surprising that the mother wouldn't have any questions after learning that her son just helped kill his friend's great-grandmother in such a vicious Manner and that he used her to carry out their heinous plans Nate do you have any questions for us right now no okay we're gonna be collecting the clothing that Nate pointed out that he was wearing on Monday and his shoes and Tino's clothing that he pointed out in his bedroom okay okay we'll have to take Nate into custody right now and and from the house do you understand that Nate do you understand that Bobby yeah okay you realized what you're going to be charged with I've told you right right another thing I actually heard that you were a really good kid into sports and all kinds of stuff and then something happened I was hit by a car right so then is that what happened that you go from being into sports and a good kid to what we just talked about what else is in the middle of there not being able to do anything what do you mean like everything I wanted to ever do had to do with some sort of combat or like stuff I wasn't alone because in my head like I wanted to be in boxing and MMA in football and because of what happened to your head you couldn't do any of that no what happened I was hit by a car is fifth grade and what happened as far as why you would not be able to do any of that stuff though I got a concussion which he's saying I still have what I say I don't an interview with his Grandma Judy the victim's daughter confirmed that Antonio had indeed been hit by a car while riding a bike when he was 10 years old it's true that this accident might have caused traumatic brain damage that resulted in a drastic change of Personality Studies have shown that brain injuries that occur during developmental years can cause long-lasting neurocognitive changes such as memory loss personality changes intense aggression and lack of inhibition on the other hand as a teenage boy who was never able to do any of the things he wanted to do he might have felt as though his life was already over and that his actions didn't matter but they say it would just get worse if I join anything yeah is there anything else I'll give you one last chance anything else you want to make sure that I include in this report not really Antonio is escorted out of the interrogation room immediately following his interview Nathan is arrested and also taken into police custody but note that Nathan had written the note that would send chills down the spines of seasoned detectives read he killed his grandma and I was with him Antonio initially pleaded not guilty to the murder on the grounds that he was mentally ill a psychiatrist who'd assessed Antonio testified at his trial that Antonio does indeed suffer from cognitive issues caused by him being hit by a car just a few years prior however it seemed that this crime was simply too heinous to be overlooked even the judge would say that this was the worst case he'd seen in his 24 years as a Judicial officer on June 24 2013 he changed his plea to no contest as part of a plea deal on August 12th Antonio Barbo was found guilty of the first degree intentional homicide of his great-grandmother Barbara Olsen and sentenced to life in prison with the possibility of Parole in 36 years in the meantime Nathan's trial was still ongoing in fact Antonio would testify at his dear friend's trial he would take the stand and tell the court that Nathan was not the clueless follower the defense tried to paint him to be he claimed that Nathan was just as involved in the planning of the murder and just as invested in carrying out the murders he was on the opposing side Nathan's relatives argued that Nathan had the social development of a child and could easily be influenced into doing something that horrific by someone like Antonio at the end of the day the gruesome and severe nature of Barbara's injuries demonstrated by crime scene photos presented in the courtroom attested to the fact that there was very likely more than one active killer that was all the convincing the needed on August 13 2013 the day after Antonio was sentenced Nathan Popp was also found guilty of first-degree intentional homicide and sentenced to life in prison with the possibility of Parole in 31 years in 2016 Antonio attempted to appeal his sentence Nathan attempted the same the following year both appeals were swiftly denied in the original sentences were upheld Antonio was sent to the Waupun Correctional institution and will be eligible for parole in 2048 when he is 50 years old Nathan was taken to the Columbia Correctional Facility and will be eligible for parole in 2043 when he is 45 years old

Channel: EXPLORE WITH US

Views: 5,143,072

Keywords: documentary, true crime documentary, psychology, law, educational, analysis

Id: mxJeFECCfFA

Length: 89min 54sec (5394 seconds)

Published: Thu Mar 02 2023