10 Signs of Vindictive Narcissism

welcome to my scientifically informed insider look at mental health topics if you find this video to be interesting or helpful please like it and subscribe to my channel most is dr. Grande today's question asks what are the characteristics of vindictive narcissism another related question would be is vindictiveness a characteristic of narcissism and is there actually a type of narcissism called vindictive narcissism so I'm going to answer these questions by looking at the ten signs or characteristics of vindictive narcissism so when I talk about narcissism in the context of this video I'm really talking about pathological narcissism so narcissism is kind of interesting personality construct because it has a few different levels and types I usually think about as being on a continuum but having kind of a type one each end right so you have the grandiose side and the vulnerable side and people typically will move back and forth between these two types of narcissism although sometimes people really do tend to stay on one side the other most of the time so really quickly with narcissism we see this construct is characterized by being self-centered having a sense of entitlement requiring admiration and being antagonistic so being disagreeable the grandiose type is characterized by being socially dominant extrovert having low neuroticism being arrogant and being resistant to criticism this is also called overt narcissism vulnerable narcissism is characterized by shame low extraversion high neuroticism hyper sensitivity to criticism and resentfulness this is also called covert narcissism so if we look at these two types and we think about that continuum I was talking about the vindictive narcissism is really somewhere in between grandiose and vulnerable it's not a hundred percent grandiose and it's not a hundred percent vulnerable although sometimes it appears to be more vulnerable than grandiose it's also not the same thing as Machiavellianism and I'll talk more about that in a moment now taking a look at the ten signs or characteristics of vindictive narcissism number one vindictive narcissism involves dominance and this is really one of the key differences but queen vindictive narcissism and vulnerable narcissism but not the only difference and social and work settings we see that the vindictive narcissist wants things to be their way they want to be in control and they believe it's good that they would be in control why things are better because they're in charge subordinates are expected to follow orders without question to the vindictive narcissists other people are weak and incapable therefore again justifying the need to dominate so the need the dominate really follows more on the grandiose side but the mechanism for being vindictive for seeking revenge moves back to the vulnerable side I'll talk about that more with some of these other signs so now moving to number two we see the vindictive narcissist loves to have power they have fantasies of success and power this is one of the symptom criteria for narcissistic personality disorder we see that really though they should not have power in terms of what's good for society vindictive narcissists are more dangerous when they are given legitimate Authority in social groups or in work settings they tend to pick on people that they have power over subordinates or people that are equal but they're careful about seeking revenge against superiors so there's a lack of insight with narcissism but there's still an awareness of some of the consequences of being vindictive so it's kind of an interesting dichotomy when you have a lack of insight somebody really doesn't see how they're acting or understand their behavior but on the other hand they do seem to appreciate that some of their behavior could get them in trouble so it's not all about a lack of awareness number three they're not very good at manipulation when compared to other narcissists however they will still attempt to manipulate especially gaslighting trying to convince you that you're the problem so they're not actually that good at it and people can usually spot their attempts at manipulation right away so if we look at something like Machiavellianism which may seem similar to vindictive narcissism at first glance we actually see they're fairly different someone who's Machiavelli mystic is actually pretty good at controlling their own emotions but with vindictive narcissism we see high Ronis ISM just like we do with mul nerble narcissism so we hear this term feelings of revenge more often than we hear the term thoughts of revenge some use Machiavellian is stick may have thoughts of revenge but they're really just worried about how they're going to advance their own position someone who has vindictive narcissism has feelings of revenge someone whose Machiavellian is stick is too logical to get caught up in feelings of revenge because under normal circumstances revenge is not logical it does not help people and it won't advance the cause of somebody who's Machiavelli mystic number four the feeling of revenge comes when the narcissist perceives that they have been insulted often the insult is related to something the narcissist has heard before so a common theme like a challenge to their authority a commentary on their lack of ability or the denial of a romantic relationship so a rejection by a potential romantic partner this is by far the most studied aspect of this part of vindictive narcissism in terms of what precipitates the feeling of revenge what is the insult so the vindictive narcissists cannot accept any criticism no matter how logical it is accurate is or how gently the criticism was delivered no criticism or advice can be well received nothing can be said to create positive change they struggle to grow or develop they have difficulty learning especially about their own behavior they're trapped in a prison of narcissism but their goal is not to escape but to imprison other people as well right so it's not about escaping narcissism it's not about failing to be narcissistic anymore it's about dragging other people down into that misery that they experienced moving on to number five their plans to get revenge are sloppy childlike and simplistic much like the schoolyard bully motivated by resentment and jealousy the perceived insult or injury is intolerable to them people simply don't have the right to insult them or to doubt that they are perfect sometimes in extreme manifestation of their revenge is thought of as a narcissistic rage we see the term sometimes when studying narcissism kind of an extreme anger reaction when they are starting to get revenge the intent is not to punish somebody so that they can learn something but rather to make another person suffer imagine that before and the need for revenge that they have is stronger than the need for self-preservation again this is much different than what we see with Machiavellianism they are willing to destroy themselves in order to destroy others people are actually scared a lot of times a vindictive narcissist which makes it possible for them to recruit narcissistic agents sometimes referred to as flying monkeys a reference we see from the Wizard of Oz so for some people it's just easier to join the narcissist than to be a victim of a narcissist so again all these are kind of characteristics of this revenge that is not well thought out and not very sophisticated number six the moment the perceived insult occurs may not be when the plot for revenge is formed a process called rumination actually seems to be more involved so the development of revenge is actually gradual and rumination can generate a Rhian Singh of the memory of being insulted and each time that memory is Rhian stat a different way and one of those ways could be as an intolerable insult and that's all it takes just one interpretation that demands retribution number seven a tremendous amount of time and energy is committed to the revenge so the vindictive narcissist really focuses a lot of energy and thought and planning into this revenge plot even though again the plot is very unsophisticated this is not unlike what we see with substance use disorder for look at the definition without disorder we see that somebody spends a lot of time thinking about substances various ways that they're going to get it what it's going to be like when they get it planning all aspects of obtaining it and using it there's a true sense of satisfaction and relief when the vindictive narcissist can get revenge but of course this is only temporary in the end the pain and distress of getting revenge for the vindictive narcissist does actually outweigh any benefits but again without any learning taking place they just continue the same behavior over and over it's not like they exact this poorly constructed plan for revenge and then see that in the end it didn't work out for them and say okay I'm gonna do something different that's not the mechanism we see with this type of narcissism and really we don't see a lot of learning with narcissism in general which is one of the reasons it's quite problematic for the narcissist and for other people that are exposed to narcissistic behavior number eight we see that the vindictiveness associated with this type of narcissism is not always about holding a grudge because really what we see here is emotional dysregulation high neuroticism somebody can seek revenge get revenge and then move on and then move on to somebody else or move on and do something altogether different if they don't get the revenge they wanted or they don't feel like they got the revenge they wanted it could take a long time for them to move on and sometimes we do see situations where people really never move on the narcissist is always in a mode where they're chasing after somebody and trying to get revenge in a way this is worse for other people because now they're kind of victims of the narcissist continually but another way it's kind of better because potential victims can see that the behaviors not going to stop and it pushes them to take action like to avoid the narcissist or to confront the narcissist in a productive way so the sporadic revenge behavior in some ways can actually be more difficult it can actually cause a lot of suffering more so than one would think when comparing it to the more continual revenge behavior number nine the vindictive narcissist believes that they are the victim in the situation were they perceived an insult they believe that revenge is something that they deserve it's warranted and that anyone would expect to or want to get revenge if they are in the same situation they believe that they are setting things right getting even somebody took something from them and therefore they're going to take something from that person at some level they may truly believe they are just standing up for their own rights but of course their version of their own rights is really expanded because they have that sense of entitlement so that's standard asset they believe they have a tremendous number of rights and those rights are fairly strong which in a sense gives them more motivation enthusiasm and energy because they feel justified they have a just and righteous sense of purpose number 10 the attempts at revenge made by the vindictive narcissist can be considered insulting by another vindictive narcissist I've seen this happen quite a few times some of the worst feuds are between two people who are both vindictive narcissist nobody knows when to stop nobody will cut their losses and walk away simply attaining a safe and fair resolution is not enough so there's this theory of course that sometimes revenge is pro-social constructive and necessary for regulating social interactions but that's not what we're talking about here we're talking about an irrational commitment to revenge on both sides right because again both sides have somebody who has vindictive narcissism so every action must lead to another act of vengeance and in these situations where you have two vindictive narcissists we see that these are the most likely to escalate into some sort of physical altercation so these are 10 signs or characteristics of vindictive narcissism we see this type of narcissists can be very successful in the short run meaning successful meeting their goals but they're typically discovered in the long run after they've exhibited the same behaviors repeatedly people can really see it a lot easier now strategies to deal with them are actually pretty hard to come by in terms of effective strategies somebody can walk on eggshells be apologetic but this usually just leads to suffering right the vindictive narcissist is going to continue their act of revenge this type of narcissism leads to a great amount of suffering for so many people right it's not just the narcissist it's all these other people around them another tactic is avoidance this could work out fairly well but it's not always an option for everybody we see that somebody can stand up to the vindictive narcissist just like a bully again like a schoolyard bully they are shocked by resistance but not everybody has the ability or inclination to stand up for themselves and this method can still end up turning out quite badly although sometimes it can turn out well it really depends on a lot of variables another tactic I see is trying to reason with the vindictive narcissist and the lack of insight really makes this quite difficult so looking at these options again it's really clear to see how vindictive narcissism causes so much distress there don't seem to be a lot of good reliable productive options when dealing with somebody like this so it's really easy to see why people are so frustrated by this type of behavior so I know whenever I talk about topics like this there'll be a variety of opinions please put any opinions and thoughts in the comment section they always generate a really interesting dialogue as always I hope you found this description of ten signs and vindictive narcissism to be interesting thanks for watching

Channel: Dr. Todd Grande

Views: 343,242

Keywords: Vindictive narcissism, vindictiveness, vindictive, narcissistic personality disorder, narcissism, no contact, avoiding narcissists, etiology of narcissism, origins of narcissism, parental neglect, manipulation, sense of entitlement, praise, fantasies of power, grandiosity, envy, arrogance, lack of empathy, mental health, counseling

Id: 7BjcUetgL_Y

Length: 14min 10sec (850 seconds)

Published: Wed Aug 28 2019