'YOU'RE a WAR CRIMINAL': Pro Gaza student goes HEAD TO HEAD with Suella Braverman in GRIPPING clash

welcome back to Patrick Christie tonight we are only on GB news now I am joined by SW bman and earlier today we gave protesters at Cambridge University the opportunity of a lifetime really to explain and justify their position to the former Home Secretary sadly no one actually there decided that they wanted to engage but we have since found one individual who would like to have their say with sella so welcome Fiona thank you very much great to have you on the show um the national campaigns coordinator for the Revolutionary Communist party uh and Fiona has been actively involved in the student encampments and um yeah this is an opportunity now I think for a bit of Engagement a bit of dialogue really which is what we're after so so is there anything thank you well I respect your opinions and thank you for coming on to the show to take part in the discussion um one of my first questions that I was very keen to ask I mean were you at the the Cambridge one but other ones other ones okay and can I ask you what your uh view is of the event of October the 7th what do you what do you think happened on October the 7th in Israel well obviously the camps haven't started because of October the 7th specifically they're starting I mean this week in loads of encampments up and down the country um they've been like celebrating and having to like memorize the fact um that this week uh commemorates the NABA which took place 76 years ago which means catastrophe which is a massive symbol of what Israel has been doing um for the last 76 years this isn't about October the 7 and to start with that is just entirely disingenuous I think on your part I really want to say that I think it's great actually that you went to that camp today um and Tred to talk to those students um and you kind of embarrassed yourself I would say whilst doing that because it was a reminder for me and I'm sure for other people watching that actually the Palestine movement brought you down and the Palestine movement has the potential to bring down lots of other Tory ministers and the whole Tory government and not just the Tory government I would say any government and any mainstream political party that is backing what Israel is doing right now which is a genocide and that's what people protest do you want to come back that Bringing Down the government um well so so you're saying your encampment has nothing to do with the events of October the 7th or Israel's uh response to October the 7th is that is that what you're saying is totally detached to October the 7th and Israel's response the only thing that is detached I would say is actually your views and your approach this whole situation and the whole the Tor government the people the student protesters are very attached to what is happening in Palestine and they are doing what they can in order to stop universities who provide I think450 million pounds to the Israeli state to the Israeli military rather than investing in their own education um and what they should be putting money into you are the one and your government is completely out of touch with what actually the majority of people in Britain think about what's happening the majority of people in Britain do not support what Israel is doing and actually want us to stop sending weapons and you were saying today that we should send more which is completely opposed to what people in Britain actually want so I think you're detached right so on on arms so can I ask you what's your what's your view of Hamas I don't want to talk about Hamas I want to talk about why and the reason that you want to talk about Hamas is because you want to keep justifying spending more money for Israel right sunak earlier um a month or two ago was talking about increasing defense spending to 2 and a half% they want to spend loads of money on that but no money on the NHS no money on education you want to cut pensions you want to cut Council budgets that's what the government that you support is doing which is causing serious suffering in this this is not to do with Hamas it's not to do with isra it's about the conservative government antier you're bringing up Hamas of course we're anti-conservative because the conservative government is facilitating and supporting a genocide and not just that it's also overseeing a horrific set of policies austerity policies that are damaging everyone's lives in Britain today okay so you have no view on Hamas and you have no message for Hamas and you have no connection you're not here right you don't have connection to Hamas okay and so what's your message do you do you believe Israel has a right to exist do what what is your message to the majority of people in Britain who don't support you who hate the Tories who hate you specifically right you went to Cambridge you were saying you were saying fair question I don't want I don't want to pile I don't want to Pile in and look absolutely you know crack on as far as I'm concerned but she did ask you a direct question I think of viers would like to know do do you think Israel has right to exist I think that's a silly question to be honest and I think you're putting you're asking the wrong questions you're asking those questions to distract from the central point that I was making which is that these Stu the reason you don't like these student protesters and you don't like these encampments one is because they've already brought you down but it's two it's because of what it represents which is a growing movement and a growing feeling in this country which is against the Tories and against any main political parties you have made that point I am very interest although when I when I did go there there were lots of posters about Israel there were posters about Palestine and there were placards about Gaza so we can't completely ignore the issue about what's happening in Israel and let's talk about it Ser let's talk about what Israeli state has done for the last 76 years so would you say that Israel has a right to defend itself Israel does not have the right to do what it is doing right now which is a genocide which is the criminal enslavement and trapping people in certain places and then saying you've got to move somewhere else the ongoing invasion of Rafa that has been spoken about today the displacement of millions of people of course they don't have the right to do that and no one thinks they do and you posing those questions is exactly what makes students in Cambridge think I don't want to talk to you I don't want to talk to any war criminal I want to grow this encampment I want to grow a move it's quite strong stuff I mean as faral yeah I mean so you are a war criminal how would you respond how would you respond to that I mean you know well you made some interesting points there about genocide so let's let's focus on that so the the legal definition of genocide is the targeted destruction of a group of people defined by their race their nationality their ethnicity or their religion in what way would you say that Israel is targeting a group by those stand serious in what way is Israel targeting a group so the killing and the injuring of over 100,000 people already in Palestine to you doesn't feel like a targeted approach towards specific people and they are aiming you don't you don't believe that at all if I can finish my point to you because I've listened to you quite a lot uh what do you say about the very legitimate aim I would put to you that Israel is targeting a terrorist organization called Hamas and is aiming to degrade destabilize and even kill Hamas terrorists no you're I don't agree with that I disagree with that completely and calling it legitimate you're talking about legal even if you want to talk about the legal World Law whatever well all of those like institutions the international court of justice have also said that legally what is happening and what is is doing um is is a genocide is moving towards a genocide I think and I think okay let's stick to facts 40,000 people dead more than that injured millions of people displaced that is the reality those are the facts on the ground again let's stay with facts so the international court of justice has not said it doesn't it doesn't matter at the end of the day I think it I mean we argue over specific words we can argue over specific words it is a fact that they are enacting a horrific Massacre right now um and you talking about Hamas it's just a smoke screen for their General interests in the region and it's not just them acting by themselves is it America is backing them financially militarily and our government is backing them financially militarily and students are protesting because they want to stop their universities investing in that entire system and it's not just the students who are protesting obviously there have been protests all up and down the country protests that you try to attack and fail to do and the protest grew ever since then because you are out of touch with people actually think and actually want that's interesting one one of one of the key one of yeah one of the key things that that defined that particular moment really in British political history was was was the hate marches situation okay yes so you know how how would you respond to some of the things that have been said there about that well I mean can I I just want to correct a few things for the record so the international court of justice and I I think you dismissed them as words and in you know irrelevancies I don't think what the international court of justice says is um you know negligible the international court of justice has not said categorically that Israel is committing genocide okay the international court of justice has said that the Palestinian people uh may have a plausible right to be protected from genocide no one would disagree with that but we must be careful about miscommunicating um and misrepresenting what the international court has said it has not said and indeed No Authority has said that Israel is committing genocide there is no evidence for a genocide second thing I would also say is that the the the the we're going back to the marches now um the issue of the March is of course everybody has the right to peaceful protest and expressing their views but what we have seen and I'd be interested in your views is anti-Semitism uh we've seen from The River To The Sea Palestine will be free that is an anti-semitic chant calling for the eradication of Israel the eradication of Israelis and the eradication of Jewish people no you're a liar you're a liar on every single one of these Mass protests right there a huge Jewish Block in all of these camps the encampments that you went to today even in Cambridge talking about all this kind of stuff the Cambridge group um Cambridge Jews for justice they said you are weaponizing their identity to promote a culture war and that and that's all this is because you've got no actual real policies or statements or anything to offer people in this country let's be honest the reason you're here and the reason you went to stay is because you want to be the leader of the Tory party you're interested in your career you're interested in promoting that so that's why you come out your I ask this is and it's completely false to call the mar anti-semitic people don't believe that do are I'm I'm completely G by this I'm sure most people are but um are you not just dismissing anti-Semitism there because there is anti-Semitism I mean I have heard anti-Semitism out some of these marches I have been in amongst quite a few ones not the ones I was at today absolutely but quite a few of the ones I mean I have been and often when you scratch the surface a bit there are some anti-semitic views you it might come across like you are dismissing anti-Semitism a bit I don't think it does because the thing is like let's talk about the broader context of this which is swella Braven lecturing anyone about racism I don't think is going to I don't think anyone's going to listen to that basically you specifically and your government have been The Architects of horrific racist policies and Whi it you're talking about hatred you're talking about violence you're talking about all of these typle things I was watching the thing today you're saying war is a tragedy and all of this kind of stuff first of all capitalism produces all of that tragedy produces racism produces all these mean I do wonder if that's a central point isn't it is it is it is it look I let you come on this but you know there have been the the allegations of racism there but again it is actually the main argument for you is you you want to smash the capitalist system absolutely because capitalism produces war and produces imperialism which fundamentally has been driving everything that's happened over over the last 76 years it isn't just about the last 7 months or anything like this I'm entirely opposed to the capital system and and the horrors that it produces across the world in many different places but also in this country too and that's what you support and that's well well let's let's come back to a couple of points there so there's the racism stuff and there's the capitalism stuff so go on and there's the point which is often lost in this debate so you mentioned Jewish people who are supporting the encampments Jewish people on the marches that is a again a misrepresentation of the situation the only Jewish people who are accepted as part of these encampments and marches are people Jewish people who don't support the state of Israel and there are some Jews there are a minority of Jewish people within the Jewish Community who are uh not supportive of the concept of the state of Israel Jewish people who disagree with you I would argue would not be welcome on your marches they would be intimidated they would feel uh harassed and uncomfortable and in fact fact we've got evidence of many incidents of anti-Semitism since October the 7th on campus around the country where Jewish students have felt that they cannot express themselves and they cannot uh behave and and and live freely on campus and I that's that's one important point in terms of the charge Against Racism listen I mean that's I don't agree with that uh you know the government and our government policy is to control migration that's something that we've been elected to do we have a Mand to do that and it's something that we owe the British people and then lastly on bri capitalism we have on capitalism uh listen where we could talk for hours about capitalism but I would just point out you know your your your trainers your your bracelet uh everything you're wearing the coffee you had this morning the car you Dr workers the the car you drove in today are all products of capitalism we're in this studio we're living in a free and Democratic Society because we're beneficiaries of capitalism growth Enterprise and Freedom the only really interesting and what I would challenge you to think about and reflect on is as a beneficiary of capitalism uh where you have a lot of luxury comparatively by global standards uh you are actually uh undermining the very system that has brought millions of people in fact billions of people out of poverty around the world and brought education good standards Good Health Care clean water education treats to the million children every single year die needy of malri of preventable diseases and you sit here saying that it's bringing we here to talk about the pal that's exactly exactly that so I just want I want to ask you a point on this because I've now been to a few of these a couple of these student encampments right I'm not convinced that the vast majority of people out those encampments are actually students at those universities could you explain about how you organize these because I think it's important for people to know like the Cambridge one there's one at Oxford there's been one I think at Sheffield and Le and places like that because it's easy to give the impression that these are students at those universities and I just don't think they are are they and why do they wear masks are they wearing masks why are they concealing their identi people masks some people don't they are these are student protests right these are student protests and in some places other people not students have gotten involved and I think that's a great students I think the staff from those University should get involved and in loads of in almost every single one of the encampments there's statements of support from the staff who want to encourage the students and not just that wider people from the community coming to provide food to provide support for what the students are doing and the reason that they're doing that is because everyone has realized that you cannot appeal to politicians there's not a single politician in this country that is actually going to do something to try and stop what's taking place and they are realizing the only faith that people can have the only Power that people really have is in themselves um and that's what I'm here to promote and that's why we need to widen out the encampments and and grow the movement to beyond what it currently is doing so that we can actually halt the government and our and and their support for the war machine in in this okay right so so so so there we go so I'll give final word on this because we are very pressed with time you know you have had a good opportunity here to engage with somebody you know in a wholehearted discussion about what you think what's your what's your view on what we've heard well having uh discussed a little bit I mean you know one thing that strikes me is you know the the lack of facts in the conversation and in in in the debate uh the slightly irrational perspective on uh you know basic uh facts of our society of which you're a beneficiary like capitalism but you'll never you know we we won't just we won't agree on that and ultimately your refusal to answer basic questions about Hamas and Israel's right to defend herself right now it's U um you know interesting uh to hear your views we're not going to agree I'll give you a fact 40,000 people killed by Israel nearly 100,000 injured in the process millions of people dis fact Un Na one more important one more really important point just you know it's a yes or no really before we does Israel have a right to exist this is the wrong question that you're asking well okay I think that's and should the hostages be released listen like why is there why is this conflict happening in the first place who is responsible for it who is the responsible for do you believe women were raped on October the 7th by H I believe there is a lot of violence taking place across that whole region and I think Western imperialists are the first people who set up that problem in the first place and they're continuing to back everything that Netanyahu refusing to condemn hanas and you refuse to condemn the whole system that produced all of that viol in the first place both of you thank you very much I do honestly think that is one of the most gripping part of the television I've been a part of and I want to say massive thank you for coming in and for talking seriously and so I want to say massive thank you to you as well for being a part of today's output so both of you genuinely thank you very very much

Channel: GBNews

Views: 663,392

Keywords: GB news, Braverman, Israel, Hamas, Suella Braverman, Cambridge, Palestine, Pro-Palestine, Palestine protests, Tories, Capitalism, Gaza, Universities, Camps

Id: pThJBLscn1Y

Length: 18min 8sec (1088 seconds)

Published: Thu May 16 2024