WORLD OVER - 2021-09-16 - THE PAPAL POSSE, HARMEET DHILLON, JESSE WATTERS

pope francis urges priests to be pastoral not political when it comes to administering communion while condemning vaccine deniers in the college of cardinals the papal posse robert royal and father gerald murray analyzed these stories and more and president biden made his case for vaccine mandates in a fiery speech last week but ours mandates constitutional attorney harmeet dillon is here to weigh in new york times best-selling author jesse waters joins us to talk about his modestly titled new book how i saved the world the world over begins right now [Music] so [Music] now raymond arroyo a warm welcome to all of you joining us in the united states and the world over great show for you tonight if you'd like to comment send me a tweet i'm at raymond arroyo lots to cover this evening but first some news appearing at the national catholic prayer breakfast in washington d.c this week wall street journal columnist bill mcgearn accepted the christie fidelis leyche award on behalf of his friend and godson chinese dissident and media tycoon jimmy ly it's my great honor to accept this award on behalf of my good friend i love jimmy lie for those of you who are not familiar with them he's a hong kong entrepreneur who founded two of its leading publications next magazine and apple daily he's in prison today for a simple reason his publications told the truth about china and hong kong and though communism comes in many flavors soviet chinese cuban the one thing that unites them all is that communism can never tolerate truth or truth tellers as we have reported previously on the show jimmy ly a devout catholic and democracy advocate is the most high-profile person to be charged under china's so-called national security law last year his media officers were raided and he stood accused of conspiring with foreign entities against the government rather than fleeing china for europe or the united states jimmy lai submitted to communist chinese authorities he remains in prison please keep jimmy ly and his family in your prayers and pope francis made headlines on his return flight from an apostolic visit to hungary in slovakia this week the pope spoke out on everything from denying communion to politicians to certain unvaccinated cardinals at the vatican here to analyze these stories and more is the papal posse editor-in-chief of the catholicthing.org robert royal and canon lawyer and priest of the archdiocese of new york father gerald murray thank you gentlemen for being here i want to start with pope francis's rather pointed comments on that return flight from slovakia regarding what he calls vaccine deniers here he is on the plane he says even in the college of cardinals there are some vaccine deniers and one of them poor man is in hospital with the virus it's an irony of life now there are a couple of inaccuracies here that i should point out before i get your reactions first i assume he's referring to cardinal raymond burke who was the the subject of the question that preceded this burke is morally a pro posed to vaccines made from human stem cell lines i don't think he's anti-vaxx and he's been out of the hospital for two weeks um but we'll leave it there father jerry what do you make of this uh sort of veiled uh comment here well i'm glad cardinal burke is out of the hospital i'm sure the pope is too now the question here has to do is it legitimate to engage in a boycott of a vaccine because you object morally to the way it's produced or tested and the holy see has determined and i think this is in line with good moral theology that there's only a remote cooperation and it's not it's not formal it's in other words you're not guilty of a crime or a sin by receiving a vaccination on the other hand people who are catholic and pro-life do have a right to boycott a product that they think should be manufactured in a different way and i agree it should be and their boycotting of that uh then requires that they take other means to avoid getting sick and with covert and and spreading it so you know there are a lot of uh questions here at heart uh and when the pope refers to cardinal burke uh it's true he's out of the hospital thank god he recovered and is on the road to recovery now uh but um you know the let's just say this uh people are not obliged to be vaccinated the holy see said that earlier this year uh i believe in vaccines and i think people should be vaccinated i certainly was but if people want to protest they have to uh you know take other means not to try to get sick or spread the disease bob your your reaction when you heard this i'll tell you uh i it this blew up on social media and and i saw an avalanche of you know uh negative appraisals of the papal comments here yeah as much as we know that there have been conflicts between cardinal burke and and pope francis generally speaking the pope has kind of avoided these uh direct open criticisms of cardinal burke and i think that this was a very unfortunate way to refer to him as a denier i actually looked up the italian of this a negationist he says we have negotiating in even in the the college of cardinals and you know that term is a term that i really would prefer that was was restricted to other uses because it originally started out as people who were holocaust deniers people who were obviously denying something true that had actually taken place and the people that the pope is referring to as father rightly said some people want to be more prophetic and they know that these certain vaccines have been developed up and tested on fetal cells from what appears to have been an aborted fetus and so they want to protest for moral reasons other people won't take it for for health reasons i i know people who are not even catholic who are worried about these obvious side effects that have been reported sometimes blood clots or heart inflammation or they just for one reason another want to wait until the vaccine has been proven to be perfectly safe so you know just to categorize everybody as a kind of a denier i think that would be better to if you want to be pastoral we need to leave spaces there are so many contentious points about the world that we're in right now we need to have a little bit of tolerance for one another who may react differently than we do to this very troubling situation well and this is the vexing thing about those comments and and a lot of what we're hearing surrounding this vaccine uh uh debate and the polarization in the church the church should be a place where that is welcoming of everybody common ground a common home for people that might even disagree on whether they should take a vaccine or what the tax rate should be or on climate change but when these things are elevated to the level of dogma while dogma is demoted to the level of prudential judgments we have a problem now also on the plane bob and you had an interesting transition there pope francis was asked about denying communion to pro-abortion politicians he said this what should the pastor do be a shepherd do not go around condemning but be a pastor but is he also a pastor of the excommunicated yes he is the pastor and he must be a shepherd with god's style and god's style is closeness compassion and tenderness i don't want to particularize the united states because i don't know the details well i give the principle be a pastor but if he comes out of this shepherding of the church immediately he becomes a politician father your reaction as a pastor and uh doesn't canon law have something to say about the reception of communion as well yes this is a very unfortunate and confused answer by the pope for many reasons number one people who are in favor of abortion like president biden have not been excommunicated excommunication is a canonical penalty as far as we know he's never been excommunicated but canon 915 regulates the behavior of catholics as concerns giving scandal by endorsing grave moral disorder sinful behavior by engaging in it on in in their lives president biden clearly supports wants to pay for expand and promote the killing of unborn children in the united states and throughout the world that makes him what we call canonically a public sinner and hid the good of his soul and of the community demands that he not be given holy communion now the pope also implies quite clearly that pastors can never be condemnatory well that's just not true you have to condemn sin for crying out loud we've just gone through 20 years of the most horrendous sins by clerics committed on innocent lay people i'm referring to the sex abuse case and the only thing that pastors are required to do is condemn it not treat it as simply something to be adjusted and in fact it scandalizes people and this has happened for many cases where bishops have more sympathy for the abuser than for the abused and they don't condemn those priests we need to condemn remember a shepherd has a crook in order to corral the sheep and pull them in the right direction and at the end of the shepherd's crook is a pointed end in order to both protect it from the wolves but also the sheep that don't want to get up and move in the right direction you got to poke him now this is a caricature of christianity as being the religion of smiles happy talk and everyone gets along can we just work everything out christianity consists of god's law being lived effectively for the motive of loving god and our neighbor and when people publicly stop doing that and lead people into sin we both condemn their behavior and call them back to repentance that's what a pastor does bob we should we should stipulate and it didn't get a lot of coverage the pope also said that abortion is murder whoever has an abortion kills no half words take a look at an embryology of uh medical students the third week after conception all the organs are there there's even dna it's a human life the human life must be respected the principle is so clear so he did say that but then he goes and goes on to discuss his own experience saying he's never denied communion to anyone is this a good enough reason to suggest that no situation would justify the denial of communion to a person well i want to say amen first of all to my colleague uh father murray because i i think he said quite eloquently all the things that need to be said here look the the the the uh puzzling thing about francis with regard to abortion is this uh you you quoted all those powerful things that he said and he repeated something that i think is stronger than any pope has ever said about abortion he says it's like hiring a hitman to solve a problem and he's excommunicated the mafia in italy because he hit men are immoral men now i i would like to just go a little bit further with what father murray was saying about being a pastor being a pastor does not mean being a patsy and here in the united states we have now had decades of people so-called being in dialogue and trying to be pastoral toward politicians who have gone astray and we have nothing to show for it and i would even like to go a little bit further and say that i'm happy in a way that the holy father says well i don't know the particulars in the country like the united states about the the individuals but look joe biden like it or not is the leader of the most powerful country in the world and he is a rome a prominent roman catholic and what he says and does and what he is saying and doing is seeking as our individual states are seeking to restrict abortion he's trying to institute him even on a wider scale and have our tax dollars pay for it that situation cannot simply be ignored it can't be wished away as if some further dialogue or pastoral approach is going to make a difference look the the secular world understands that even if the po if the pope excommunicated or the bishop ex communicated the president he'd still be the president of the united states and he'd have powers but the fact that the church would actually take a stand would make a difference to world opinion and we could we should hope that the pope if he really believes that this is murder in the united states we have murdered 65 million of our own children then he should be as as as virulent and advocating against that practice as he is advocating for uh steps to stop climate change and and for migrants etc it's very puzzling that you can have that powerful statement that this is murder and yet not feel that there has to be any strong reaction to it the pope made uh an historic visit to hungary as well on this trip uh he met for 40 minutes with prime minister viktor orban at the conclusion of the international eucharistic congress in budapest now prime minister orban has been criticized for strict immigration policies and in budapest the pope said this how distant is the god who quietly reigns on the cross from the false god that we want to reign with power in order to silence our enemies how different is christ who presents himself with love alone from all the powerful and winning messiahs worshiped by the world um bob very quickly uh some have seen that as a direct rebuke of orban uh who francis naisi is promoting that kind of populism that he's condemned often in the past yeah he also said in the in the course of that uh homily that the cross spreads its arms out to everyone and in that column that i wrote earlier this week that you just referred to what i said is yes the cr christ and god does reach out to everyone but that is not an immigration policy no country on earth can reach out to any everyone in that sense of being being able to welcome anyone who wants to come to it so um i think orban has made a very interesting distinction that to try in his particular circumstances he isn't necessarily saying that even every european country needs to do this but he wants to preserve the historic christianity of hungary and hungary has been invaded several times by muslims in the course of history so that you know they they have a sense of this from their own past it is not as the pope said defensiveness for people to want to preserve their own cultures muslim immigration we have to say this i think frankly is is a particular problem because of what muslims believe they they re they unite church and state in religion and state in a way that western societies do not we do not have the same problem for example with hispanic immigration or asian immigration the muslim religion itself has some particular elements that one has to handle very carefully and i think that that you could criticize aspects of what orban is trying to do but for his country uh and i would like to actually see the pope encourage that there are certain countries in which to in the attempt to preserve the christian christianity of the people it's necessary to be careful about immigration father jerry uh is it wrong for a secular leader an elected leader to do what he feels necessary to protect his own country and his people i mean mass migration is not a requirement for for good government and i mean we're seeing these uh nationalist leaders emerge patriotic leaders some might call them uh matteo salvini in italy uh dedicating the people to the virgin at political rallies and things uh what's happening here and why are we as a church crashing in on politics and a political vision for people let them vote well we do believe in the self-government you know god made us free so there to exercise freely our right to elect our leaders is is a good thing the church recognizes that now the church also recognizes in the catechism the catholic church says it the state has a right to regulate who enters into that state which foreigners are allowed in and allowed to stay because we have to face it and this is what's being seen right now in the mediterranean basin because of modern transportation means people from all over the world can get themselves to north africa and then pay money to get on a boat and land in the european union and then be transported to a variety of countries given housing welfare benefits and the promise that they'll be allowed to stay so this is basically an open door policy which is transforming those countries and when people in those countries vote leaders who disagree with that that's just the will of the people there's nothing immoral about saying we're not going to take in an unlimited number of immigrants into our country uh because quite frankly that would change the nature of the country um you know as bob said do people who support the existing governmental structures want to live there who do they want to come gain a majority and vote vote to change the country uh people have a right to defend their democratic heritage yeah well bob bob quoted that uh that excerpt from the homily you know the arms of christ are spread wide to everyone it's a welcoming of everyone apparently not vaccine deniers but we'll leave that on the side for the moment uh pope francis recently met with the bishops of france during their periodic ad limina visits and the pope's moto proprio restricting the use of the traditional latin mass came up according to reports the pope warned them that the old right must not be used as an obstacle to the acceptance of vatican ii saying limits must be established at the same time superiors of the latin mass communities in france have signed a letter appealing to the french bishops saying they feel suspected marginalized and banished father jerry your thoughts on all of this is the old right guilty of causing division in france or elsewhere and will this appeal for mercy garner any response do you think well as i've said before on this program and also written uh and in my column uh the permission that pope benedict gave for the wide celebration of the traditional latin mass was an act of wonderful charity and it promoted unity in the church because people were no longer required to go to the followers of archbishop lefevre who are not canonically regular in order to be able to participate in the old mass now the pope seems to think and i think he's profoundly wrong on this that at liking or finding beautiful the old mass means you reject the second vatican council why is that i think he's saying that the second vatican council is embodied in the new mass well the reality is during the whole second vatican council the traditional latin mass was celebrated without a problem and after the council the changes in the mass originally were quite modest and were beneficial and included readings in the vernacular but then pope paul vi created a concilium which rewrote the mass against virulent objections from number of the cardinals and others and the pope went along with it and we got what is called the novus ordo uh this is a different order of mass pope francis in fact in an interview with the spanish radio program called this kind of a new right he said it was like one of the eastern rights um this this is all very very upsetting because there's only one latin right and it has two expressions the traditional and then the newer and pope benedict's solution was perfect those who want one or the other go to it the idea that somehow everybody who likes the old mass is suspected of not being a catholic who accepts the sacrificing council that's unwarranted that's not seen in the evidence so i hope the pope will learn that pope benedict's actions produce peace because right now what's going on this is a nascent war in the church between those who want to defend the tradition they love and the pope who seems to say by loving tradition somehow you're not loving the church i don't agree with that [Music] archbishop of liverpool malcolm mcmahon uh said he supports a national synod bob uh being held in the church in england and wales as we head toward 2023 to that synod of bishops on the senate of senate the idea of national synod seem to be catching on what do you make of this and given the way germany is headed down it's an auto path why would the church in england and wales head in the same direction well i think it's inviting a lot of problems because obviously activists are the people who come to the fore when you open up the doors like this that uh that bishop i think used an unfortunate expression he said that everything is on the table right well we have a 2 000 year old church and quite a few things have been taken off the table over the course of those 2000 years and to create the expectations somehow that whatever people may be bringing forward and in many cases these are catholic people have not been formed deeply in the faith they've been formed by a post-christian culture let's be quite blunt about that and he you know he cites some other uh examples of people who are beginning to work on this and one there's a group called root and branch that he mentions and he says well they're just a small part and that has to be contextualized well if you look up what that group believes in it's the usual stuff is women's priests it's gays it's even a non-hierarchical non-status church in other words the the the lines of authority are really even going to be blurred so um look there are a lot of possibilities when you start studying the cinahl way it is at least in theory could open up some goods but given what where we are at in the church right now with the divisions that exist and just some of the wild things that people are proposing and it's not only in germany i think it's also in in england and here in the united states um creating expectations that all these things are somehow going to be yet again uh gone through and assessed i think it's a very dangerous moment no the vision seems to be i know some things are off the table but let's remake the table you know it's that kind of uh reimagining the future before we run out of time i need both your thoughts on a recent column by jesuit father thomas reese on september 7th he wrote quote six suggestions for the catholic bishops document on the eucharist one reads the document should emphasize that the purpose of the eucharist is not to bring christ down on the altar so that we can worship him if you want to worship jesus go to benediction the ultimate purpose of the eucharist is not to change the bread and wine into the body and blood of christ but to transform those at the eucharist into the body of christ so that they can continue his mission in the world um father jerry for the bishops to take this advice i think they'd have to be writing a document on eucharistic heresies but is this in any way correct eucharistic theology uh this is terrible eucharistic theology this has uh this place 95 sounds heretical his use of the word purpose uh gives him an out because he's you're not talking about the nature of the eucharist but the purpose of it but i even there he's mistaken the purpose of the eucharist meaning the celebration of the holy mass is so that the priest can change the bread and wine into the body and blood of christ that is an act of worship by the way because the priest and the community together join christ's offering of himself in an unbloody renewal of the sacrifice of calvary to god the father we it's an act of worship now for him to say that he also says we should no longer use the word transubstantiation in that article well he's just throwing out the council of trent and the fourth ladder in council this is part of the dynamic that bob spoke about earlier the expectation has been created under this pontiff that you can say anything you want in contradiction of catholic teaching and you won't be disciplined you'll get away with it the only people who don't seem to have that privilege are the ones that like the latin mass this is unfair if there was ever an ideological current entering in and usurping doctrinal fidelity it's an article like what father has just written because the holy eucharist is jesus present in a hidden but real form and it is our greatest joy to be able to walk into a catholic church and say the pre-celebrated mass the holy eucharist isn't the tabernacle i know that my god is with me to deny things and say we've got to transform the people into the body of christ the people are the mystical body of christ but they receive the holy communion the eucharistic body of christ in order to grow in holiness so this is a very confused person i'm very sad that i went to jesuit high school i studied under the jesuits the gregorian a jesuit if a jesuit had taught this to me in high school he would have been in big trouble because this is very clearly coming close to denying the doctrine of the faith and he should withdraw this article and write a new one professing the true faith now robert what's reese's end game here very quickly have a minute uh i mean didn't he i didn't realize he was a consultant for the usccb on their upcoming document yeah he's written before about the eucharist in this basic vein and when it comes down to one of those six principles that he wants to suggest to the bishops is that anyone who presents themselves because they believe enough in christ that they want to be they want to be receiving the eucharist ought to be able to receive it actually this is kind of reflects something that the holy father has said according to aojana schofield his bizarre friend has said that anyone who comes forward will receive the eucharist um we have a much different uh tradition in the catholic church we have an articulated idea that when you come forward for communion it's because you're fully in communion with you want to be fully in communion with christ and come closer and closer to him um i think that this is a kind of a reorientation his father was saying that just something that has never really been part of our tradition and maybe that's the end game that you're looking for who knows no no this is the same this is the same old heresy that mother angelica got in trouble for condemning uh you know almost two decades ago same routine different day a gentleman we will leave it there you can find commentary by robert royal and father gerald murray at thecatholicthing.org thank you both talk to you soon and president joe biden is calling for mandatory cova jabs for 80 million plus unvaccinated americans does he have the authority to force u.s citizens to accept a vaccine they don't want and will religious exemptions hold up his federal order joining us now to discuss his attorney at the center for american liberty and the dylan law group harmeet dillon army thanks for being here i want to play you something biden said before he took off office regarding the covet vaccine watch mandatory no i don't think it should be mandatory i wouldn't demand to be mandatory but i would do everything in my power just like i don't think masks have to be made mandatory nationwide i'll do everything in my power as the president united states to encourage people to do the right thing now when when asked if he thought covet vaccine should be mandatory he said no now the biden administration is looking to impose those vaccine mandates on private businesses with a hundred or more employees as an alternative to taking the vaccine employees can submit to weekly coveted tests at their own or their employer's expense now i know the administration is executing this order through the department of labor harmeet is this mandate legal is it constitutional uh i don't think it's legal or constitutional raymond and i think that part of the timing that you're seeing here is because the administration is in so much trouble with scandals and also president biden has let the power that he has as president go to his head he's not heeding the constitutional guard rails that the united states supreme court set up with respect to for example that eviction moratorium and this is all sort of the same type of issue so just to break it down for you the occupational safety and health administration has certain power and that's under the department of labor to regulate safety in the workplace but it this rule is being made under an emergency aspect of its power and so the question really legally is did congress delegate to the department of labor and osha the power to force vaccines into american citizens arms this has never been done before and in fact just weeks ago osha you know put out regulations saying we're not planning to back to to mandate this and so in order to meet the standard here the osha has to prove in response to a challenge and there will be challenges i plan to file one of those challenges that that we're dealing with a grave and immediate threat of some contaminant in the workplace and you may recall from president biden's remarks on this that he's calling the citizens who are unvaccinated the americans or the workers who are unvaccinated the contaminant not even the virus and so that doesn't hold water scientifically as we all know and all we all know friends and family who've gotten sick with this virus despite being vaccinated and they got it from people who were vaccinated so just the basic logic doesn't hold up but there are many other issues i can go into well that that's a i agree that's a whole secondary issue that i we don't even have time to get into but you know science as i say week after week i'm all for following the science but science evolves as new discoveries new information and new data comes in and what we know about these vaccines is they're leaky uh we are having bleed through where people are getting sick after being vaccinated i know at least three people who who have coveted now all double vaxxed and if if that wasn't true we wouldn't see the push for booster shots which are coming now and we're not even talking about the mu variant which apparently is uh cuts through all these vaccines so that's another issue for another day but i want to talk about you mentioned osha osha gains its authority from the commerce clause um the obamacare mandate had its the controversial point there was the commerce clause of the constitution and john roberts said that mandate the obamacare mandate was a tax might they say this is a fourteen thousand dollar tax for anybody who doesn't get the vaccine and could that pass muster at the supreme court i don't think so because osha doesn't have the power to tax uh neither does the department of labor and so i don't think that's what that's not going to fly at all um i think that really just so looking at there's so many other legal issues you mentioned religious uh exemptions and medical exemptions and so forth i know we're going to get to that but as an employment lawyer as part of what i do at my law firm i can tell you that and as an employer i have no desire as an employer to know the medical issues of my workers because it creates liability for me if i find out that a worker has a disorder or disease or a medical reason not to get vaccinated i don't want to know about it because if i end up firing that person they're going to sue me for disability discrimination because i knew their medical situation and so there's a so if you were to call this a tax the tax is not just the fine if you don't do it the tax is setting up the weekly testing the taxes setting yourself up for lawsuits the tax is adding hr professionals to track and monitor this stuff and by the way if they get away with doing this we are going to be subjected to this for the flu vaccine and for every new drug that american pharmaceutical corporations that donate money to politicians decide they'd like to push with the help of the government and with the help of big employers now now what's interesting is that some big employers and frankly a lot of blue state governors i think are in favor of this mandate and that is because citizens and workers who have choices and decide whether they've gotten vaccinated or not they don't think it's their employer's business they're mobile right now before this rule goes into effect they can decide to go work for a different company or move or what have you this rule in one fell swoop eliminates american worker mobility and choice between different companies so it eliminates competition and big companies like that they like their workers to have no choices and to stay locked in that's a great point that i hadn't thought of now during the press conference last week uh white house press secretary jen sachi had this to say about the administration's latest vaccine mandate listen to the question she was asked well look our objective is to get as many people vaccinated across the country as humanly possible and so the president's announcement yesterday was an effort to empower businesses to give businesses the tools to protect their workforces that's exactly what we did it's a requirement for people at a business with more than 100 people it's not a requirement for migrants of the southern border why that's correct so on tuesday harmed arizona became the first state to file a lawsuit against biden's latest covet vaccine requirements uh arizona's attorney general mark brnovich argues that the mandate is unconstitutional because it discriminates against u.s citizens because undocumented immigrants apprehended by federal law enforcement are not subject to this vaccine requirement neither is congress or the white house or certain unions is are those carveouts the discriminatory application of this mandate a problem well i think those are going to be among the many arguments that are used i mean the osha hasn't published the regulations as yet and so i haven't filed a lawsuit as yet but among the arguments is going to be equal protection but even before you get to that the federal government does not have police power to do this uh you know they do have the ability under osha to sort of stop extreme threats exploding gases or toxic waste in the workplace but that's not what this is and i don't think it passes the historical precedence either you know the fact that we have today thousands of people on the board are waiting to get in they're not vaccinated they're not going to be vaccinated they're spreading measles and other diseases this is documented in our country and and american citizens are held to this different standard look look at the rhetoric that gensake used the president is giving workplaces the tools and we want to get people vaccinated they're doing it by force force is faster and more convenient for the government to achieve its goals on its populace than persuasion than incentives and it's brutal because we have a majority of people in most of our states in california where i live it's 70 of adults plus are vaccinated in san francisco where i'm sitting it's it's over 80 percent and so when you look at those numbers and what is the need for the force those numbers exceed so-called herd immunity you notice that nobody's talking about hurt immunity anymore you notice that nobody's talking about the fact that people who don't get vaccinated may have had the disease over 100 million people in this country have survived this illness and that is not being counted so there have been lawsuits raymond regarding discrimination against people who have survived covet and have natural immunity you know my friend todd zwicky at the george mason law school filed a lawsuit like that he's a professor there and the school backed down and they said we will treat you as if you are vaccinated because he had a medical opinion that said it is dangerous for him to get vaccinated having recently recovered from covet given his medical condition i got to get to religious freedom here which is also at stake there are people who do not want to take this vaccine due to sincerely held religious beliefs this week a federal judge in new york sided with 17 catholic and baptist medical professionals and issued a temporary restraining order uh in new york state forbidding them from enforcing the vaccine mandate if health care workers claim a religious exemption now if they're not forced to take the vaccine uh but then are forced to pay these weekly covet testing uh uh this test regime is that an undue burden harmed and what do you expect on this religious liberty front well so when you look at state law regarding employment that's where most of our employment laws are made and in many states like california like many other more liberal states an employer cannot make you go do a work obligation on your own dime and on your own time the employer has to pay you for the time spent taking the test and has to reimburse you for the expenses so actually i think that's an additional tax but on the religious mandate issue uh you know and i think look if employers are going to pay for it and it's going to be on site and frankly it would be logical if employers are concerned about this to make everybody test because as we know vaccination does not prevent transmission or even illness right so that would actually be much more logical if the employer is going to pay for that the government's not going to mandate that because that would be a huge cry from big business to put that additional tax burden on them and so that case you just mentioned however i'm sorry to say that is an outlier unfortunately since an opinion by justice scalia about 30 years ago regarding religion and exemptions from employment requirements religion has really had second class status among the rights in the first amendment unfortunately that may be sort of slightly shifting with some lawsuits that i filed last year regarding coveted restrictions but right now the law is that it's a very low threshold so if the employer can prove that your religious exemption is going to cause the employer more than what's called a de minimis burden like a very minor expense if it's more than a minor expense they don't have to accommodate you even if you can prove your sincerely held religious belief that compels you not to get vaccinated so you know that's bad news for employees and now with a mandate those employees who get fired from one job are not going to be able to get a job at a big company they may still be able to get a job at a small company but i predict that states like new york and california are going to mandate this vaccination requirement for companies under 100 workers so that could definitely happen at the state level and then we're going to have even more litigation harmed before i let you go there is something that i did not appreciate until i read some case law today i did not realize that to claim a religious exemption many times the federal courts the supreme court looks to the religious body that you claim so what that means is in the context of these vaccine mandates might the stance of the bishops or the pope be used against catholics trying to make a religious exemption argument here vis-a-vis these vaccines yes absolutely the jurisprudence does show that the courts look to whether you have a sincerely held religious belief and that means religion in the sense of an organized faith not just your personal beliefs and so if your organized faith doesn't support your religious exemption that would be a reason to say that you are not expressing a sincerely held religious belief but rather your personal viewpoint which is not protected by that exemption wow that that that that was a stunner to me today i just always thought it was an individual claim a conscience claim but apparently it's far more cut and dried which is why every bishop's statement the pope's statement on vaccines all of that will factor in at the end of the day her mate dylan thank you for the insight your clarity we will check in with you soon thank you thank you raymond my next guest got a taste of being in front of the camera while doing street interviews for the o'reilly factor on fox news channel now he's hosting his own show on the network waters world along with co-hosting the very popular the five more recently he has a loftier goal in mind it's also the title of his new book how i saved the world it's part autobiography and part commentary skewing what he calls left-wing radicalism please welcome to the program jesse waters jesse thanks for being with us look i've got to start with this title first of all i didn't realize that you would save the world and if this is salvation i'd like a do-over i'm going to have to write another book that's what we're going to do because obviously the first book didn't take raymond but obviously the world is mine and that was the franchise that o'reilly concocted and if people read the book they know how bill came up with this and he didn't really even come up with this it was a mistake someone had put waters world up on the editorial rundown board as a joke and bill thought he had come up with it and thought it was brilliant because it's kind of a play off the biggest box office bomb almost of all time water world right kevin costner i think it lost about 250 million dollars so he said all right waters we're going to name this uh after a flop uh let's see if you can do any better than that so that's how we got water's world and my wife came up with how i saved the world so she gets full credit okay well good good give i hope you don't give her too much of the royalties because you know that can get really expensive jessica she'll spend it all on the clothes they all do i want to delve into the real jesse waters here now look you never struck me as an ideological guy now i know you grew up in a liberal home so where did this conservatism come from and when i listened to limbaugh and that's kind of how i became a rush baby in college i was inebriated and woke up from a stupor and they had c-span on it was republican senators on the floor talking about policy and i figured that's kind of what the founding fathers had in mind and the next day i tuned into rush and that was it and i was never a super partisan i'm more of just an american and if things work from this side of things work from that side that's good for me but trump comes along america first i always liked that i was big into pat buchanan in the 90s because he was all about rebuilding the american industrial base our manufacturing base keeping jobs here instead of shipping them overseas i always liked the tough war on terror attitude from george w bush and i thought obama was a disaster so when trump came along he really grabbed me and the rest is history what you see it on tv is what you get jesse i love how you even did the buchanan chop as you brought buchanan's name up that was that's wonderful how you did that now how did you come to fox and tell me about the o'reilly job interview which you relate in the book well i had been fired for many jobs in finance apparently you have to have a little grasp of arithmetic to handle millions of dollars of other people's money so i i was working on the campaign after getting fired from finance and uh that campaign ended the new york governor won and i knew someone who knew someone you know how that works raymond and i started off in the basement of fox no health care freelance making no money and i heard there was an opening on the factor and so i went in for an interview and it was during his radio days the radio factor and he came in during a break and he sat me down in the room and he looks at my resume and he says what's your father do i think he thought i'd gotten the interview because i was well connected i wasn't that well connected my dad's not a banker so i told him what my dad did and the next thing i think he forgets i'm in the room dead silence so all of a sudden i said bill i just read your latest book it was amazing and all of a sudden bill's head perks up and he says you seem like a smart kid you start monday so [Music] he hired me and then the next week he almost fired me because i was a mess during a pitch meeting and we talked about that and how i saved the world yeah those are brutal those pitch meetings with o'reilly were brutal i mean that was like you know a viking viking epic tell me what did you learn from bill jesse i see some of his style in you i have to tell you well just kind of being a producer for his show for almost 20 years it's hard not to pick up on some of the mannerisms and the gesticulations but bill was always a hard news guy from the beginning you know he came up in cbs abc and he was a real reporter so it was very important that when he delivered his opinion as when i deliver my opinion it has to be fact-based you have to base your opinion on facts and i try to do that on water's world and on the five and so that was something he taught me and he taught me also a lot about fairness you do want to give the other side either guests or the democrats an opportunity to just kind of say what they believe in or address the issue from their perspective and then you can hammer them but you got to give them a chance so i was trying tried to be fair i tried to be fact-based and then in the field he taught me everything about how to be aggressive kick down some doors get in people's faces and that was something that really started to take off when we started ambushing bad guys judges who gave soft sentences to sex offenders and that kind of put me on the map yeah well you write in the book how those men on the street interviews and occasional ambush interviews on o'reilly spring break reports aside waters helped put sex offenders behind bars several states passed jessica's laws as a result so i mean in that respect you kind of did save the world well yes unironically we did save a lot of children from sexual predators because the whole point behind jessica's law which was a mandatory minimum 25 years to life for first time child rape so a lot of judges were giving perps probation or a year or two for raping children for sexually assaulting children under 13 years old and you got to take the discretion away from these judges who believed in restorative justice thesaurus methodology that these guys they can be rehabilitated but they can't they they're recidivists meaning they they repeat and repeat and repeat their crimes there's no healing these perverts so you have to keep them off the streets so they can't reoffend and after this i guess 50 state assault on these stupid judges and politicians we had 45 out of the 50 states eventually passed these tough mandatory minims and that was something i was very proud of yeah you should be it was important it's very it's crucially important in protecting a child's innocence but what could be more important than that you include a chapter speaking of innocence family you include a chapter dedicated to your mom's text messages which you regularly read on the five but in the book you respond to her and you've said she cried when the book hits doors are you still speaking is what i want to ask first we are on speaking terms raymond yes okay can i know you saved the world but can you save your family uh your mom writes texts like and you quote these in the book what makes you think it's appropriate to viciously disparage insult and dismiss a member of congress how does that behavior contribute to any sort of civil discourse humility helps character counts think about that jesse she writes in another place she says please pronounce your ings the word is putting not putin pig peeking restocking and elsewhere she says i am honestly concerned about your colleagues they've begun to roll their eyes at your diatribes so i guess this is just you're trying to keep things friendly and light here but it is good that you're communicating with mom and she has a very different political take on things she's not salvageable raymond she's beyond saving that was the one thing i couldn't save in writing this book she's now just as hostile she does she keeps it to herself during the trump presidency she was truly radicalized she'd gone to the women's march she was just just flew off the handle at everything and so he used to get inundated with these vicious texts during the show which is live right which at the beginning it was rattled me a little bit like my own mother disparaging me my character my integrity and then i'd have to go back to the next section and do my thing but the book gave me an opportunity to respond to each of these horrible attacks on myself and i tried to do it in a fun way but she's gone no i was hollering she worships fouchy you know she's not i wouldn't say she's antifa left but i maybe maybe squad light she's squad like raymond oh boy so she's not exactly a member of the buchanan brigades is what you're talking about oh no no okay she teared down that statue if one was ever erected well maybe your next book could be how i saved the world but lost mother i mean this could be a great collection of the text messages i was screaming reading that chapter by the way okay in the book you write that you see yourself as a cultural anthropologist because you've traveled the country you've seen all these different people in different uh you know ambush settings give me your take on the state of people as you see them now americans everyday americans beginning with manners with the way they interact with one another particularly coming out of this covet thing or maybe we're in the middle of it it's a really great question because there is a silent majority which you're in touch with because you travel and you don't spend a lot of time in manhattan but if people got out of manhattan and if people got out of the swamp they would see a country that's actually unified raymond and you know this when you go to restaurants when you go to football games when you're out and about at the grocery store people are friendly people are polite and i'm not just talking about blacks and whites and hispanics men and women of all ages from all backgrounds no matter where they're from are genuinely nice people in the united states of america and they're respectful of each other and what the media does and they zone in on conflict racial conflict especially or conflict regarding vaxton on vax as you see today and they exploit these conflicts and inflame these conflicts so regular americans think we're at war with each other raymond we're not at war with each other everyone's fine that's true i'm fine you're fine maybe i get heckled sometimes and get called a nazi on the upper west side that's me most people don't get that right and you see that out there but if you live in a media prison you'd think this was 1930s germany you would think this there are clans walking around burning crosses nothing could be farther from the truth yes there's some police misconduct in an extremely small perspective you know yes there's i don't want to say the word but there's jerks can i say jerks to raymond to royal there's jerks out there making fools of themselves and throwing punches and acting like animals okay but most people aren't like that raymond most people are like you no well groomed polite mannered well-educated people that just want to earn a living and go out to dinner have a few drinks maybe maybe watch some sports take care of the kids mow the lawn get a new car that's the kind of life we live in they want to take care of their family and their community nice happy life with their families but before i let you go if you could do one thing jesse waters that you are not doing now professionally and i could grant that wish what would that one thing be you save the world but you don't you don't have any other options for what you would be doing now raymond i'm not going to answer that question because i'm not going to take the oh come on people are watching people are watching i don't want to step on toes i'm very happy where i am right now i'm very grateful for these great opportunities we were talking before we aired this you fake it till you make it i'm happy i'm not fired raymond is all i just want a nice long career i could be a game show host at the end of it try not to get fired say what i believe let the chips fall where they may well jesse there could be an opening at jeopardy any day now you know they keep revolving through uh host so maybe there's a possibility but i want to just mark this for the time capsule i finally got jessie waters to give us a politically correct answer i thank you for that jeff only you raymond pull that off well this barbara walters and me were the only two people capable of this uh how i saved the world by jesse waters it's available at bookstores everywhere online jesse thanks for being here see you soon thanks i'll see you on waters world raymond you bet [Music] that is all the time we have for now be sure to catch us next week until then we'll be scouting the world over for all that is seen and unseen on behalf of the staff and crew of ewtn news thank you for watching i'm raymond arroyo bye now [Music] you

Channel: EWTN

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Id: 3QMliO_103Q

Length: 57min 45sec (3465 seconds)

Published: Thu Sep 16 2021