Woman of Grace - THINGS THAT GO BUMP IN THE NIGHT, pt. 1

hello everyone and welcome to women of grace I'm John at Ben Quebec what are we to make of paranormal phenomenon such as ghosts and hauntings and what does the church teach on these subjects what types of beings inhabit the spirit world are they all good are they all bad is there a way to discern the difference and to what extent do they can they affect our daily life these are the questions we will answer in this women of grace series and today we begin with part one of things that go bump in the night well here they realize it the Catholic Church gives us valuable insight into the nature of paranormal phenomenon and how it is that the faithful should regard it here to tell us about church teaching on the paranormal its origins and what our response should be is our guest sue Brickman sue is an award-winning writer journalist of breaking news on our website women of grace calm and researcher of our popular blog on the new age she is also author of this series of books on the new age learn to discern is it Christian or new-age we've got one on this topic for you all of these available for you at ewtn religious catalogue dot-com more about that in a little bit so welcome to women of grace it's wonderful to be back you know it's always good to have you on set you know we're friends yes and so we enjoy each other's company but we're here today to talk about a very serious topic aren't we and oh yeah this topic of the yoke all at the paranormal there are television shows all over the place you know on these topics and people watch them and even this past weekend I watched one because I watched it in preparation for the program so I was just interested in the way in which you know these topics were being presented it was about haunted houses and lots of people think that this is just fun stuff but if you realize that there is something at work and that our church has deep teaching about all of these things that's right I mean ghost stories is something like ever since we were little kids you know we want to sit around and tell spooky stories about the ghosts and all that but when you really sit down and think about it logically the church really does have it right as far as who ghosts are and what are ghosts and that's something that I hope you can get into or the course of this week talking about because I think it's going to be an eye-opener for a lot of people because most assume that ghosts are disembodied human souls mm-hmm that have come back to haunt a place or a person died in a house and they never really left and this is certainly not what a ghost is and we have the writings and the works of father Herbert Thurston he was a Jesuit he lived in the early part of the 20th century and he devoted his life to researching the paranormal and spiritualism and he gave us actually three statements about church teaching that has to do with ghosts I think were very important and I believe we have a slide about that as a matter of fact yeah and while we're getting that slide prepared to go up I want to ask you this question you know when we think about that period of history when when father Thurston was doing this work for us it was an important time because at that time in the early part of the 20th century there was a tremendous interest in spiritism and there was a tremendous interest in things of the paranormal and it was very vogue at that period of history for people to gather together for seances and all kinds of things like this and I think that it was right around that time too that the Theosophical Society really began to make headway into the mindset of the American population you know and Halina Petrovna Blavatsky and Colonel Olcott founded that Society I think back in 1875 and it was really gaining roots at that time it was it was and they were trying to make the occult into a science yes and their course they're taking the devil out of this yes and and this is where this is where everything goes wrong right is by trying to remove the demonic from it yeah well let's take a look at that slide yeah maybe you can walk us through some of these key points that we haven't it's getting set up for us right now we're gonna go right to it and there it is so what does church teaching give us regarding ghosts well the first thing is that the church has not pronounced upon the essential nature or spiritualistic phenomena such as ghosts so they haven't really said anything definitive yet about it yes there's an ex cathedra teaching right exactly but a number to the church forbids the faithful to take part in any of these spiritualistic practices and we're talking about here seances mediumship other means of conjuring the dead ie the Long Island medium you know things like this John Edward Sylvia Browne and third the church suspects diabolical agencies may be responsible for these for those manifestations that do occur so people will say well wait a minute why is it a diabolical agency why isn't it my aunt Mary who died and wants to come back and and and for the family and and and we'll get into this later God does allow Souls to come back but not like this this is not the way God does things and in order to really understand that you have to understand a few important facts I think about the beings that inhabit the spiritual realm we have to understand what these beings are and we know a lot about them we know a lot about from Scripture from tradition from historical account and and many of our Saints have spoken about this so we know what exists and there essentially are four there's God who's the supernatural there's angels who are a pre-roll these are the good angels now third would be disembody human souls and fourth would be angels but who are demons okay and I want you to notice friends we've got that up on the screen for you there so that you can take a look so these are the four classifications if you will of spirits that the Church recognizes exists God obviously angels disembodied human souls and demons so we've got those four categories - and you want to ask what's body that's what's up there that that's what's out there that we know of is out there okay so let's start with the first one and what we're asking ourselves the question now is why why isn't a ghost like a disembodied human soul or what is a ghost so we're asking ourselves that question so we got to start with God now God is not going to come back and allow anyone to come back from the dead and in as far as a seance or a medium would be concerned and we know that because of Scripture and he taught us in Deuteronomy 18 is the one that I used the most because he is so adamant in Deuteronomy let there not be found among you anyone immolates the son or daughter in the fire nor a fortune-teller a soothsayer a charmer a diviner a caster of spells nor one who consults ghosts and spirits or seeks Oracle's from the dead he comes right out and says no I will have nothing to do with that so when you're going to a seance and when you're watching Long Island medium you could automatically now exclude God from being behind whoever is so so so called appearing to these people well this is what gets very confusing because in numbers of these cases of individuals who are mediums psychics whatever term you want to use the fact of the matter is they will often present as being very Catholic or very Christian or you know you know I pray the rosary I do this you know everything that seems to be dressed up in a way in which it would make it acceptable and it would appear to be something very good and in many cases I think that these individuals are sincere individuals but they're sincerely duped because you can't have a syncretism here between these kinds of practices right and Catholicism or Christianity in general you know Catholicism being a fullness of truth but but even in in evangelical circles these things are not acceptable so you can't blend them together and somehow seek to make them okay no you can't and God has told us he has told us in the scripture I just read in Leviticus it's throughout the Bible he has told us you are not to consortium's with people who call up the dead so God is never going to contradict himself by working with these people right so he's never going to do that so it's not coming from God it is not a supernatural source right not coming from him it can't be so the next one on our list would be angels now we're talking about the good angels okay now angel well maybe you should tell us who angels are in the first angels are messengers that's what the word means it's a messenger and they exist solely to do the will of God that's who they are they are spiritual beings meaning they never had a body the theologians often refine to them refer to them as minds because that's really all they are our minds and and angels are possessed of enormous capabilities as far as strength intelligent the way they move the way they communicate with each other it's angels are a fascinating subject to talk about but angels as I said exist to do the will of God so if God says you are not to have anything to do with a medium or a seance or anybody that obviously he's not going to let his angels do it either right so he would have no desire to do it of course they're good angels have no desire to do it they would have no desire at all right so that's two off our list now so we have God and we have angels who are saying no we are not going to come back as a ghost we're not going to facilitate that in any way so then we get to disembodied human souls and can they come back and will we learn from from the Catechism and and I believe we have this as a slide each person receives his eternal retribution in his immortal soul at the moment of his death so that you could say in essence someone has died and in the same thing say and he has been judged it's that fast it happens right away yeah remember it's just personal aside on this I remember when my husband Anthony was dying you know and he was taking his last breaths and father Edmund Sylvia was at his bedside with me and and when Anthony took his last breath probably within about 30 seconds I looked at father and I said Oh father do you think he's had his particular judgment yet and he said Oh John that I think he has and it's over I said oh thank god I'm so happy that's over for me no I was so caught up in the eternal realities that were happening at that moment but when you say its Swift it is Swift it happens immediately yeah do you experience that so that really puts a you know yeah I understand that church teaching just from you know an experiential dimension knowing that it happened so quickly so right as we die instantaneously we're being judged because we're outside of time and space so there's no lapse in time you know that's right minds have such trouble conceiving that but so we're instantly judged and then what and then we go to our eternal reward either heaven purgatory or we're damned those are the three places and you go and are sent there immediately so you're not left to hang around to throw pots and pans around the middle of night this is not what happens it's not it doesn't happen and and it's see it does seems silly now when you really put logic in theology to it it does seem kind of silly what we believe and they think that people get lost in between and somehow can't find their way Lord loves us too dearly to have us hanging out there in outer space somewhere trying to figure out where to go he's not gonna do that to his children no he's gonna take care of you until you return to him in heaven hopefully and so that's not it but we also know that disembodied souls they are only a mind at that point right you have left every body gone and you're out of your body right right and we're taught by theologians that that human beings have no natural power once we leave this world to communicate with the carnal world the Corporal world after they have left their senses and left their bodies behind so we have no senses anymore we can't talk to anybody why because our esophagus in our our voice box is rotting in a grave somewhere I mean I know it sounds a little abra but it's true the footsteps that you hear in the middle of the night aren't your dead Aunt Mary because her feet are in the grave she doesn't have feet anymore so how could they possibly come back how could a disembodied soul come back well he would have to have and rely upon a preternatural source okay or a supernatural source and guy would have to allow it and does God allow them to come back yes he does and he allows his angels to take on the form of a person we know that from so many saints and the great story that Padre Pio always tells about he was sitting at his in his monastery one one afternoon and it had been a heavy heavy snowstorm and in other words everything was blocked coming up to that monastery and he was sitting there in front of the fire praying and all of a sudden an old man walks into the room and he's dressed as a peasant would have dressed at the early part of the century and he sits down next to him and Padre looks do you know how particular what are you doing here how did you get in here and the man said my name is Pietro tomorrow and I died here in room number such-and-such upstairs I lit a cigar and fell asleep and I died from suffer Haitian and burns but I'm in purgatory right now I need but one more mass and if you could just say but one more mass for me I will be able to go home to God and God has allowed me to come back to tell you this and Padre Pio just looked at him and said you will have the mass and I will say it immediately and the man thanked him and he got up and disappeared so he and another friar went down to the public office and checked the records and sure enough a man by pho de Mauro had died in 1908 in their monastery was still a home for the homeless in the same room that he said on the same day that he said he had died so we know and we that's just one of hundreds probably thousands Johnette of accounts of our saints and even everyday people who say my loved one I know that that loved one came to me in a dream or something God does allow it but he allows it for a purpose right there's a reason why he allows it you know and I want to come in to all we have to do is look through Sacred Scripture and oftentimes you know we will see angels coming as a servant of the Lord and and so a full Junt were they in in human form that people would say it would call them my lord because the angels are always before the presence of God and they reflect the presence of God but we see this in the book of Tobit don't we where the Guardian the Archangel Rayfield takes on the human form and accompanies and sojourners with Tobit a beautiful book for you to read by the way but it's just an interesting phenomenon but that's really the that's not the corporeal person that we knew at that time that's right okay so explain that that's that that God allows that an angel they're actually using an angel to take on the form of that of that person okay and and appear and give whatever message and they will say it in the same voice that that person used in the same language that they use he will look they will look exactly as they did and but he's using a preternatural source in order to make that happened because they don't the disembodied soul doesn't have that capacity anymore and that leaves us with one more category of spirit and when we come back from our break we're going to discuss it our guest for this series things that go bump in the night is our own Sue Brickman or staff journalist for breaking news and our researcher for our new-age blog out there at women of grace calm I really want to encourage you to get out there and look at our New Age blog sue has literally I don't know hundreds and hundreds and hundreds we think it's somewhere around eight hundred answers to questions on these various topics for you there she is also author of this series of booklets learned to discern is it Christian or New Age available for you through religious catalog and that's ewtn religious catalogue com that's going to come up on the screen for you as we go to our break we're gonna be right back stay with us welcome back friends we're visiting with our guests and our guest for this series of programs is our own sue Bremen sue Brinkman is the women of great staff journalist who brings you breaking news in addition to that she is also the researcher for our new-age blog now I really want to encourage you to get out to women of grace calm and use that New Age blog so frequently we get questions about all kinds of different things sue is already responded on that particular topic archived for you there there's over 800 entries there nothing quite like it in the Catholic blogosphere all you do is go out to women of grace calm it right there in the navbar you're going to see the opportunity for the blog's as soon as you hit your cursor on that you'll see the new-age blog click and there's a search engine there and you can just put in the topic and all kinds of good resources and information for you will come up there now while you're at the website I want to encourage you to become a subscriber to women of grace exclusive it is one of the greatest deals on the planet I'm telling you that archive is chock-full of programs going all the way back to 1988 our radio podcasts our webinars special presentations on audio and video you can't even make a retreat in your house using that particular feature that's available for you so get out and become a subscriber to women of grace exclusive every week we have a patron saint we've got a great patron saint available to you today he is st. Francis Borgia and depicted in the famous Francisco Goya portrait in the act of performing an exorcism st. Francis Portia just couldn't seem to escape notoriety in his life the great-grandson of Pope Alexander the sixth and the one-time Duke of Gandia Francis was known for his piety while serving in the court of the king of Spain his great joy in life was to receive Holy Communion and the happy and peaceful life he shared with his wife Eleanor and their eight children but when she died he was devastated and did something that shocked the entire country he gave his dukedom to his son Charles and became a Jesuit priest the move created such a stir that upon the event of his first public mass an estimated 10,000 people showed up to see the holy duke forcing them to set up an altar outdoors to accommodate the the last thing he wanted was to be famous and given special treatment which is why he happily submitted to his superior who tested him by making the former Duke cook carry wood for the fire and sweep floors Francis did all of this without flinching and would even kneel down before the priests he was serving to ask forgiveness for being so clumsy he wanted nothing to do with the trappings of the nobility even refusing to stay in one Jesuit house because it was too richly appointed a contemporary of Saint Ignatius of Loyola the Jesuit founder named him chemistry General of the Society in Spain in 1554 and later entrusted the care of the missions of the East and West Indies to him Francis transformed the provinces assigned to him within seven years and distinguished himself as a powerful preacher even while continuing to be sought after by royalty who wanted the counsel of the Holy Duke under his leadership the society spread throughout Spain and neighbouring Portugal the elected vicar general of the Jesuits in 1565 he was weakened by his austerities attacks of gout and stomach ailments but he let none of that stop him from embracing his duties with a finesse of a Duke and the dauntless spirit of a true soldier for Christ wherever he went Satan fled differences were reconciled and discourse was smooth under his guidance the Jesuits grew to be a great hop to the church in many lands by the time he died in 1572 he had become known as the second founder of the Jesuits Francis was canonized in 1670 by Pope Clement the tenth and his feast day is October 10th what a great Saint he is you know a real champion and so you know if you worry about these kinds of things you know I would encourage you to pray for the intercession of Saint Francis Borgia because it seems as though Satan fled in his lifetime and through his intercession I'm certain he will be it will be beautiful results he will flee indeed you know so we're talking about the paranormal and you were going through for us the four different categories of spirits that there are beginning with God talking about the angels discussing the reality of disembodied soul and why they do not come from sources that are unholy but God will occasionally use an angel to make a person's presence known and indeed known to someone else and now we come to that forth so if something's happening and it's not of God because God's not going to contradict himself it's not of his angels because the angels are not going to contradict God and it's not coming from a holy source simply by the way in which that's presented and we could talk a little bit about that maybe later on the last category would be demons demons demons have both the power and the motivation to come back to pretend to be somebody's Aunt Flo why because it makes that person then turn to this medium and begin to rely on occult power in place of God so it says make that turn yes exactly that's exactly what it is they make that turn and he's right there waiting for him and that's why these shows like like the Long Island medium and all these shows that are out there that are promoting these big-time mediums like the Soviet Browne who recently passed away she was a very very big one for many many years you have John Edward he's the one who praised the Rosary before he he does his seances and call up these Souls which doesn't sanctify it or make it holy that's right it doesn't matter it makes no difference that makes a difference you can't do what God has condemned and think you're gonna get away with it by pasting a rosary over it if that doesn't happen yeah well when we come back tomorrow we're gonna pick up on this topic and friends as you can see already a very enlightening series of programs in this particular series which is things that go bump in the night want to make you aware of the fact that this entire series of programs available for you on DVD from religious catalogue and that addresses ewtn religious catalogue com you can also order this series of booklets written by Sue Britton men on the new-age learn to discern is at Christian or new age including booklets on the occult available for you at ewtn religious catalogue com let's not let ourselves be duped let's not let ourselves be duped for your homework assignment tonight I want you to get out to the catechism of the Catholic Church and look up paragraph 2 1 1 8 21 18 look it up see what the Catechism teaches until we have the opportunity to be back together again maybe abundant life the abundant life of Jesus Christ be yours god bless you bye bye you

Channel: EWTN

Views: 24,396

Rating: 4.826715 out of 5

Keywords: Catholic, EWTN, Christian, television, New Age (Film Genre), Ghost, Spirit (Literature Subject)

Id: ih6mDcsiY20

Length: 25min 33sec (1533 seconds)

Published: Thu Oct 30 2014