Why Your Excuses Will Ruin You | Rich Roll on Impact Theory

everyone thanks so much for tuning in to this episode which is sponsored by our amazing friends at audible which I almost always use in prepping for my episodes I hope that you enjoy this one I love trying to push the outer edges of the envelope of what the pain experience is in a physical sense pain is truly the only thing that's ever gotten me to change so it's been my growth accelerator as well as my reminder our goal with this show and company is to introduce you to the people and ideas that will help you actually execute on your dreams alright today's guest is an extremely accomplished ultra endurance athlete best-selling author and host of one of the biggest podcasts on the planet and proving the age is really just the number he began his athletic career in earnest in his 40s after a medical scare that made him realize the importance of living a healthy lifestyle and what began as an attempt to simply not die it became an obsession that song completely transformed his life in 2009 after decades of alcohol addiction and just two years after being 50 pounds overweight and sitting on the couch for exercise at the age of 43 he won stage one of the ultraman by 10 minutes a seemingly impossible feat when you realized that the ultraman is a three-day 320 mile double Ironman distance triathlon to top that accomplishment he raced the epic 5 which is five iron men on five Hawaiian Islands in just over five days and not long after turning 50 he and his partner were the number one finishing American team in the au tillow swim run world championships which is a race where you run on land and then swim in the 50 some degree Baltic Sea transitioning from running to swimming fifty-two times and did I mention that he did it when he was 50 years old not surprisingly men's health named him one of the 25 fittest men in the world and he is regularly named to other high-profile annual list of the most influential people in the health and fitness space he's been featured on CNN and the New York Times Forbes and countless other media outlets for his laundry list of insane accomplishments so please help me in welcoming the man whose podcast has been downloaded more than 30 million times the best-selling author of finding ultra rich on the show excited to talk to you man we met through a mutual friend Bryan Holaday researching you was really a lot of fun and that's one of the ways that I judge who to bring on the show is am I really gonna enjoy researching them and I'll admit my bias was I thought that you were gonna be primarily talking about fitness and nutrition which obviously is a huge part of it but there's just so much more there and the thing that I really found interesting was your relationship to pain mmm so I wanted to start there what is your relationship to pain my relationship with pain runs deep and and it's complicated on the one hand I love pain I love trying to push the outer edges of the envelope of what the pain experience is in a physical sense and it's also been my greatest teacher in terms of things that I've accomplished but also my errant ways as well pain is truly the only thing that's ever got me to change so it's been my growth accelerator as well as my reminder of when I've gone astray that's what I found so interesting about it is in the one hand you talked about how you you have to get really comfortable with pain if you want to be able to push yourself to the kinds of extremes that you do but then that pain is this also really powerful thing that can force you to change so I want to talk more about that how have you been able to leverage that I find that pain often causes people to they go into endurance and they just like endure the pain but they never actually you use the word leverage you said I knew if I could leverage this pain I could really make change what is that mechanism of really grabbing a hold of it and making it into something usable I think it's learning to embrace it and not being afraid of it and you know for me it goes all the way back to when I was a young child I mean I was a very awkward insecure kid who had a lot of difficulty making friends and and figuring out what the rules for her life were and I was also somebody who is not athletically inclined at all I was the kid with the eye patch and the headgear picked last for kickball and all of that but the one thing that I was actually fairly okay at was swimming and when you're good at something when you're a kid and and you're having difficulty in other areas that's what you're going to gravitate towards and and that's what I did and I learned quickly that I was not the most talented swimmer but in my early teens I realized that if I was willing to put in the work and do certain things that other people weren't willing to do that I could bridge that talent gap and pick up a lot of white space and that meant getting comfortable with pain to bring it back to your question so throughout my teens I would I would routinely throw down crazy sets in the pool that no one was willing to do and I was doing it because I knew I wasn't the most talented and if I wanted to compete at the highest level that's what would be required I loved that and by the way is so cool that you shared the photos of you with the eyepatch and stuff in your book I thought that was really neat how did you go in school you're being bullied at one point you see this opportunity to get better what do you start telling yourself or doing to be able to make pain your friend to push past it so that you could begin to you know beat other people at something it's almost like a deep meditative state and it's a very one you know one-to-one relationship but you the pain that you're willing to suffer and the progress that you're going to make and I saw swimming as my way forward in my way out and so what that meant was the more that I was willing to suffer the more likely it would be that I was going to create a positive trajectory out of this painful scenario that I found myself in and were you vision boarding things I mean how were you staying so tenaciously under your goals that you pushed that hard well swimming is is is a sport in which it's so individualistic and it lends itself to setting very concrete goals and those goals for me were time standards oh I want to qualify for US Nationals oh I want to qualify for Olympic Trials so I would have a vision board where I'd literally write those times out in very large block letters with a magic marker and put them above my bed or on my mirror in my bathroom and constantly reminding myself and reinforcing myself about why I was doing what I was doing so I don't know that I would have called it a vision board at that time it was more but it was it was more of a practice of engaging in in in aspiration like I had pictures of all my heroes and all of that and I think intuitively I was looking towards a better life for myself when you went through getting sober the amount of change that was staring in the face was obviously just Herculean how did you leverage the pain in that moment to make such profound change fear you know I was somebody who who by the time I was 18 years old was an individual had a lot of promise and there was a lot of people very invested in my future I was graduate I graduated top of my class in high school I got into all the colleges I applied to all the Ivy League's I was a top ranked swimmer competing at the very highest level world rank the whole deal and so my future looked very bright and then alcohol got introduced to my life and it was a very progressive decline in my aspirations and at the very end I was a daily drinker I was drinking vodka tonics in the shower in the morning and hiding drinks throughout the day and you know ending up in blackouts and more than you know my fair share of incomprehensible you know demoralizing situations and I burned every Bridge that I had I was virtually unemployable at the end I was sleeping on a bare mattress and a crappy apartment with no furniture in it my options were had been eliminated my life was eviscerated my family didn't want anything to do with me I've lost my friendships I had no way forward and I just continued to dig that hole deeper and deeper and deeper until one day I had that moment that you hear with people who are in recovery that that moment of clarity where I realized I just couldn't live this way any longer my elevator had you know gone down to the bottom floor and and the and and I met my pain threshold you know back to the this thesis around pain like I had reached a point where I could no longer tolerate the pain of my current situation and the fear the pain associated with the fear of change was eclipsed by the pain that I was feeling in that moment and that's what motivated me to change I went to a treatment center where I lived for a hundred days which is pretty long time to be in a rehab center and I did that because I knew if I didn't get this right that my life was done you know and so I took that opportunity seriously I recognized that despite the fact that I think I'm a smart guy my best thinking had me literally institutionalized and that if I couldn't get a grasp on how to live and develop some new skills and and a new toolbox for how to approach my life that that I was going to end up in jail or I was going to kill somebody else or myself yeah so few people make it to the other side of that the really interesting part for me is the lessons that you learn in that about pain because they come to your aid again in the next phase of your life where now you're post the drinking and you're overweight and you're walking up the flight of stairs and you think you're having a heart attack and you said that was the moment where you said and I remember you using your hands like I knew if I could you didn't grab ahold but if I could leverage this pain that I could make the same kind of change that I had made in going through rehab what what is that like the thinking process or the the Meccan nations that you go through when you have a big change in front of you now you've done it multiple times is that goal setting is it imagining the world that you'll have if you don't do it like what is that process for you that's a great question I think for me it's really anchored in awareness and presence you know on that staircase I was able to really understand that I was having an important moment in my life and the reason I was able to recognize that was because I had that moment so many years prior when I decided to get sober it was a very specific moment in time where I made a decision and that decision set in motion a series of events that changed my life so completely that I couldn't imagine my life had I not made that decision and I was able to see and understand and recognize that once again I was being visited by just such an opportunity it was something that I could feel inside of me and and I think it's because I'd learned to be present to be aware of myself and my environment and one thing I always talk about is the fact that you know I'm not anything special with this I think we're all visited with moments like this in our life that if we can develop that the wherewithal to have the awareness around the circumstances surrounding whatever event it is that you can leverage that crack you know in the door to make some significant changes and I'm somebody who and I've heard you talk about this before I'm somebody who who when I make a decision like that's it you know I can I can step over that line or walk through that door not look back like I can be determined be focused enough and diligence enough and dedicated enough to leverage those moments when I make that decision to really make significant changes that that's stick and stand the test of time now I have techniques and tactics that I use to be able to pull that off do you have similar things like how do you make sure that in those moments of weakness that you actually keep going I mean for me I try to keep it as simple as possible it's about making a decision and when I make a decision that decision is done I've done it with diet I've done it with fitness I've done it with my profession and the more simple I can make it then the easier it is to adhere yeah that makes a lot of sense now going into leveraging the pain and making it something that allows you to do these extraordinary things physically how do you shift your thinking about what the the pain isn't I know that you said you agree with Goggins that when your brain taps out you're really only about 40 percent of the way there how do you tap into that other sixty percent experience you know we're so conditioned Tom to avoid pain every message that we see every billboard we see every advertisement that we're exposed to is telling us that happiness can be can be purchased through comfort through luxury through ease and that's sort of implicit in that is that that's how we find happiness and I can tell you that I'm happiest and most alive when I'm butting up against the outer edges of my pain threshold and I'm not afraid of it and so when I start to feel that sensation rather than shirk away from it I realize that's an opportunity to experience a heightened sense of myself and my environment to to really be in a position where everything else falls away and it's just you and your ability to take one step forward there's a purity to that that again is another great teacher and so in terms of techniques I've just learned through experience that just like David Goggin says when the signals that you're receiving are telling you to stop that you don't necessarily have to pay attention to that that that you are capable of so much more if you can develop the acuity the presence of mind and the wherewithal to then take that next step and when you're on the other side of it to realize you're still okay and you can take another step and a whole your horizon extends and you realize that there's a whole world of potential and possibility available to you that you weren't previously aware of all right so I know it's happening in the mind of the viewer listener right now they're discounting you because you're extraordinary they forget that you said remember I was a kid with the eye patch I did not take to anything naturally athletically that you know swimming was something I'd outwork people they're forgetting all of that already and they're just saying well it's rich role he's lean he's shredded he's been doing this for a long time of course he can do it but what I want to talk about is take it out of the realm of the physical the most interesting thing that I've heard about you from you is what happened when you wrote finding ultra and you thought all right this is it dumb being a lawyer here we go universe give me some good stuff and then it didn't quite play out like that yeah no it definitely didn't I've been a corporate lawyer for many years I was a corporate lawyer during the period of time that I wrote that book and the book was successful and yet in the wake of that book being published and doing well the phone didn't rang and I had let my bar bar membership lapse and here I was you know ready and available to speak to the world and and be of service and the opportunities just weren't flowing it was a very difficult time and it tested me to my core I mean we almost lost our house I had cars repossessed we could bear bills it was very emasculating but I think the the alchemy of going through that has been something that now allows me to speak from a place of of greater truth and and depth with what I do so I'm grateful for the experience I love that man and hearing you say that I can tell that you really mean that but I want to paint a picture a little bit more for people the part that really hit me was when you said that you guys couldn't even pay for your trash taken away and they could that's when I realized okay wait this wasn't like Oh things were tight this was like we can't pay $60 for our garbage to be picked up and then they come and like take the trash cans away it was the worst I mean so embarassing m'as so incredibly emasculating yeah we went through periods where we literally barely had enough money to put food on the table and we couldn't pay hard we couldn't pay to have our our trash removed and they did they came and they took the bins and then we were compelled to then put our trash in the back of our crappy beat-up minivan and find an empty dumpster to do to dump the to dump the garbage it was it was not easy man what do you teach your kids so like bringing this all back to looking at you is like this insanely empowering example of how to use pain in all of its forms like what do you teach your kids about pain because they watched that happen right and they watched you push through and obviously everybody knows you on the other side of this already yeah so what do you teach them like how do you help them assign meaning to that hard time that you know not being broken and continuing to push yeah it's a great question so I have four kids and it's something that was very challenging as a parent and again I keep using the word emasculating as somebody who who you know is supposed to be the head of household and and take care of these sorts of things to be unable to do that was incredibly difficult I've spoken to my boys at length about this and as difficult as it was it was an incredible learning experience for them to understand that the world doesn't owe you anything it quashed any sense of Gen Z and title minutes or anything like that and I think it taught them the value of of really what it means to pursue a dream and what is required to see it through I think it would have split up a lot of marriages or families but we treated it like a board game we're like okay how are we gonna do this like what's the plan let's do it and let's try to have fun with it and sort of deplete all of the ore sort of drain all of the anxiety and tension and fear that can surround it and when you do that you realize like we're gonna be okay that's really extraordinary and knowing how stressful that must have been it yeah it's there are so many powerful lessons to be learned in there one thing I'd love for you to give to listeners right now is what did you do like what does and I'm now I'm gonna conflate a couple things that maybe you're better separate but you've talked about this god of your own making and then so you said your faith was being tested in this time so you didn't sell out you didn't like do some cheap thing and this is what years we're back in like what 2,000 like 2,000 this was like 2012 through 2014 15 yes it was not like going into podcasting was like an obvious answer to your problems back then so how did you stay true to the vision when it it just I mean you're literally getting picked apart down to not being able to pay for your marriage I worked my ass off and exploited every opportunity that presented itself I did a ton of speaking gigs for free I did anything that was asked of me anyone who would want to talk to me but it was really just a function of showing up working my ass off saying yes and having a strong core belief that I was on the right path yeah I love it and being able to keep pushing and that's the part that I really hope people hear is that it's not just sitting back and waiting for something to happen it's definitely no you know it's trying everything you can to like really make something but being true to that mission and knowing what you're trying to bring to the world I think that's really extraordinary you mentioned really early on this notion of self-awareness and I want to talk more about that so one to have the kind of faith that you had to keep pushing obviously you have to have a lot of awareness around who you are who you want to be what you want to bring to the world but in going and getting sober and then chasing that with the kinds of physical activities that you do which are I always want to say the loneliness of the long distance runner which is great film all about sort of the way that you can get lost in your head as a runner what are some things going through sobriety doing the distance that you've learned about yourself that are like encapsulate able that's a great question I think to answer that I would preface it by saying that I was somebody who who for as long as I could remember was pursuing the traditional notion of the American dream get into the best college study hard get into the best grad school get the best job show up early stay late partnership track all of that right but that I'd never really stopped to think what is important to me like Who am I and like what am I here to express and I didn't have answers for those questions all I knew was that I felt like I was living someone else's life and so my exploration in sobriety and ultimately then in ultra endurance sports was really my personal method of trying to resolve these issues for myself to try to learn Who I am I love that what advice do you have for people that are living somebody else's life how do you help them get awareness of that and then B once they realize okay I'm living somebody else's life and this is why how do you help them figure out what they really want for themselves it's an inside job you know one thing you talk about all the time is goals setting goals and being very clear about what those goals are I think that that most people set the wrong goals for themselves and it's because they're disconnected from who they are they are living someone else's life or they're living a life that's so disconnected from who they are it becomes very difficult to set the right goal so I think in order to reconcile that you have to look inward you know and that can be different for everybody that can mean a consistent meditation practice that can mean therapy that can mean you know starting to do yoga it can mean many many things but I think there's no end run around the very difficult long process of really trying to be honest with yourself about who you are what's important to you what you care about and then beginning to breathe life into those things as frivolous as they may seem to bring expression to the things that that you do care about that that that get you excited in the morning and that doesn't mean you quit your job tomorrow but the more you can foster something that has personal importance to you I think that's the first step in trying to move past whatever it is that's holding you back whether it's professionally or personally to being a more integrated authentic version of yourself even hearing you talk about that it really sounds like that inward reflection has a spiritual edge to it I don't know if you'd agree with that yeah you talked about in when you were first going through rehab that the counselor asked you are you a spiritual being having a human experience or a human having a spiritual experience and I'd literally like what I don't understand and then you said and I said what yeah so walk us through cuz I'm like I get some context from having you know seen you talk about this a lot but like help me make that like something I can internalize so yeah when I was in rehab I was asked that very question I had the same reaction that you had I I don't understand what the question means let alone have any ability to answer it but I've since come to believe and and truly believe that we're all spiritual beings having a human experience and I don't mean that in any specific dogmatic sense certainly not in any specific religious sense but I do what I do mean by that is that there's more to this experience of being human than meets the eye there's more to it than we can possibly comprehend and I think there are energies available to us if we open our perspective and become more curious about the world then I think we're programmed to be so for me that doesn't I don't define that by any particular specific spiritual approach other than that it provides my experience as a human being with a little bit more awe and wonder than I used to have that's awesome talk to me about letting go that's like this really important through line in your life that's resulted in this just incredibly beautiful stuff happening to you how like as a type a control freak yeah how does one go about letting go it's scary right terrifying yeah actually wait I I don't experience it as fear I experienced it as sub-optimal so now maybe you can really help me because that's the truth right fear if I let go it just won't be done it's an assault it's an assault to your worldview definite right and I relate to that you know as somebody who as I explained earlier as a young person I did the math and I realized if I outwork everybody in the pool I can be as good as anyone else if I outwork everyone in the classroom I can graduate at the top of my class and get into Stanford and Harvard and so my worldview was informed through the prism of those experiences which taught me self-reliance is everything don't don't expect anybody to do anything for you I'm the only one who can get it done and if you just buckle down and go the extra mile you will solve the problem and you will make your way in the world every success that I had had in my life was a result of myself well why won't my self well solve this problem and that hole got deeper and deeper and deeper until I was a completely broken human being and I had to raise my hand and ask for help for the first time and that forced me to start to think about letting go and surrender in a new way and I've come to believe and understand that surrender is a very powerful courageous thing to do it's okay to say you don't know it's okay to ask for help I had to let go of this operating system and step into a sense that perhaps there's a better way a greater way that involves me saying I can't control this which was terrifying for me but it is in that process that I allowed people to help me that I became open to a new way of approaching my life that has made me stronger more powerful more capable I'm more successful than I ever thought that I ever would be if you had to define in a single sentence what it means to be integrated how would you define it when you're when you're when you're clear on your values and your actions along with your values that's very clear that that's something that's really interesting as you were talking about it I had an intuitive understanding of like what that would be in my language which I would say for me it's what are the things that you want and then are you actually acting in accordance with that so like here are the things that are my goals but they're my goals because it's something that I entrance well why do you want what you want and if you can't answer that question then you're not integrated that's interesting tell me more it goes back to what I was saying before about people picking the wrong goals for themselves because they're not integrated they don't know what their values are they're not clear on what's important to them they're not really in contact with their internal muse you know one of the examples I always give is this idea that we all have some unique song here to sing on planet earth like I believe that and that doesn't mean that everybody can be liberal and James or that you have some insane talent but I believe that there is a unique blueprint to every individual and our job here you know in our short time on this planet I know you're gonna live forever but like for everybody else is to discover what that is and to work towards expressing that to the best of your ability you know we all have a unique song and I think most people to echo the words of Henry David Thoreau are leading lives of quiet desperation and go to the grave with the song still in them and I find that tragic and so if there's anything that that that my work is about it's about helping people become cognizant of that and to take action so that they don't become that person leading a life of quiet desperation which I think I don't know I wouldn't want to say most people but a lot of people are and and I found out heartbreaking I love that you opened your book with that quote I that's one of the quotes that I've probably repeated in myself more times than just about anything else because I've had moments in my life that had been just quiet agonizing desperation and so I know what that feels like I I love that notion of there's like interference and that you have to clear it out to be able to hear your intuition like what when you're clearing that out what is the thing that will then happen for that person that will allow them to begin to get integrated like that clarity right if you're if you're eating garbage food if you're eating fast food and you're not sleeping and you're you know drinking five cups of coffee a day or whatever it is you're doing and you're stressed out about your job and you're just living a moment-to-moment to get through the day do you think that you're gonna be in touch with whatever is really important to you you're just trying to like you know hit the pillow at night and pay the bills and that's most people and if you give people a minute to pause and reflect and you can clear all of that out and feed them healthy food and give them a good night's rest and ask them questions that most people aren't asking them and they're certainly not asking them themselves I think that's the process that begins our sets in motion the years in the mind and in the emotional body to begin to bring all of that to the surface what are those questions now like over here do you have like anything you start people on to get that the juices flowing to get the ball rolling well it can be as easy as you know what's your major malfunction right now what's the thing that keeps you up at night who do you resent the most what are you afraid of what do you want to achieve what's in it what's in it what do you think is in your way you know I think just by asking people questions and and and and then holding a vision for that better life for them to say I believe in you I'm not here to tell you what to do or how to live your life but I believe in your greatest expression and I'm going to hold space for you to give people permission to be honest to be vulnerable we're so afraid of being vulnerable we're terrified of being honest we're so used to being judged and being held to a standard that society sets for us that we don't give ourselves permission to even ask these questions let alone answer them dude you should create like a downloadable PDF like that simple questions but for somebody that doesn't have like a place to start that's really really powerful all right before I ask my last question tell these guys where they can find you online I'm easy to find online rich WorldCom the rich roll podcast wherever you listen to podcast and at rich roll on Twitter and Instagram my last question what is the impact that you want to have in the world it's a great question I would like to move the needle in a substantial and long-lasting way for as many people as possible with respect to not only how they think about and practice habits around food and fitness and lifestyle but to really catalyze people to understand that like I said earlier all of us every single one of us is capable of so much more than we allow ourselves to believe and I know that's a theme on your show David Goggins talked about it James Lawrence talked about it these are friends of mine who have touched the outer realms of endurance and ultra endurance teaches you that it's easy to say I'm an outlier but I'm not I really am NOT anything special I had the courage and the audacity to pursue these things and in so doing I have realized that human potential is malleable we're all sitting in top massive reservoirs of untapped potential and ability and my dream and my goal and everything that I do is oriented around getting people to not only understand that but connect with that and begin to practice that to manifest that in their own specific way I love that more than you can know right thank you so much for coming on the show that was awesome well guys when I say that you are gonna want to dive into this man's world you will not regret it this is one of the most extraordinary transformation artists I've ever come across there is something about people that fall into the ultra-endurance category they've tapped into something in their mind it's not like they start out as incredible athletes in fact I think of all the people that we've had on none of them have started as extraordinary athletes all of them have found it later all of them have found it through hard work all of them have had to realize that if they want to become something extraordinary then they've got to put in the work they've got to just get in there and hustle but what I love about rich is that sense of spiritual transformation as well as just the physical of really using that time to figure out who he is what he wants and to values the fact that he lives by a code I'm telling you rewind this play it again he talks about values you have to know your values what are your values what do you really want and his understanding that those things that you want they have to be tied to your values okay that to me once you understand that once you understand that that has to be at the core of your existence then everything else gets easier but first you have to know who you are you have to know what you want you have to know what you believe and what you're going to live in accordance with that's so huge drips all over everything that he talks about subscribe to his podcast it's absolutely amazing but even more amazing than that are the interviews that he gives so make sure you track those down as well you will be blown away let them change you please take action on the stuff that he's talking about it really will change you and it will change you for ever alright guys if you haven't already be sure to subscribe and until next time my friends be legendary take care thank you represent activist I credit my success to voracious reading I read a lot and I mean a lot but when I say read I actually mean that I listened to stuff because I'm a ridiculously slow reader and the advantage with audible is that I can assimilate the information really really fast because one I can speed it up and two it's all coming in orally now audible books through audible have been a life changer for me literally because of audible I'm able to read faster prep for my main shows in transition moments while I'm walking while I'm working out in the gym and pretty much anywhere so join me in this amazing learning progress the first 500 people who use the link below in the description are gonna get a free audio book on audible no strings attached just use the link below to get started audible content includes an unmatched selection of audio books audio shows news comedy and more from the leading audiobook publishers and broadcasters and the true magic of the audible app is that it allows you to speed up the playback I cannot thank you guys enough for that it allows you to go all the way up to 3x it's amazing and that's why I try to live 3x baby and I had to work my way up to that so don't worry if you're not there yet you can get there I started at 1.5 and then just kept pushing my way up till I was all the way at 3x don't expect 3x on day one but like anything if you push yourself stick with it you're gonna get better so push yourself click that link below and enjoy the free audiobook that you get just for jumping in and after you pick that book by the way shoot me a DM let me know what you're reading I'm always looking for good book recommendations alright enjoy and be legendary buddy thank you so much for watching and being a part of this community if you haven't already be sure to subscribe you're going to get weekly videos on building a growth mindset cultivating grit and unlocking your full potential

Channel: Tom Bilyeu

Views: 453,701

Rating: 4.8949833 out of 5

Keywords: Tom Bilyeu, Impact Theory, ImpactTheory, TomBilyeu, Inside Quest, InsideQuest, Tom Bilyou, Theory Impact, motivation, inspiration, Rich Roll, Rich, Roll, Rich Roll Impact Theory, Rich Roll Tom Bilyeu, The Secret to Mental Toughness, Why Your Excuses Will Ruin You, finding ultra

Id: k7iq2Z2D1Zs

Length: 40min 5sec (2405 seconds)

Published: Tue Oct 23 2018