Why is the Java vs. Bedrock debate so angry? | Rage Switch

there's a famous quote by benjamin franklin in 1789 he wrote nothing can be said to be certain except death and taxes while that may have been true in the 18th century our friend ben did not live long enough to see the 21st century and if he had he surely would have amended his statement nothing can be said to be certain except death taxes and the java vs bedrock debate one of the great things about being a minecraft content creator is the ability to talk with many minecraft fans on a daily basis and while most conversations are fun and respectful about once a month someone brings up something about a difference between java and bedrock and what happens next is fascinating there seems to be a hidden switch embedded in each minecraft player this switch while often dorman is activated by a perceived slight towards their preferred version and once this switch is turned on it can suck even the most mild-mannered person into the center of a fiery debate over which version of minecraft reigns supreme but maybe i'm getting ahead of myself for the viewer who plays only casually or doesn't even play at all you may have no idea what i'm talking about java bedrock isn't minecraft just minecraft and oh do i wish your initial instinct was correct but alas it is not the case minecraft has two versions the java edition which is found on computers and bedrock edition which is found on a wide variety of platforms from phones to the xbox so what's the difference between these and why is the debate rage so frequently as with many parts of minecraft what we see today is influenced by a rich and twisting history and to really understand this debate we're going to need some context of how we got to this point so strap in because it's almost time to learn what's happening here and why it leads to such vitriol amongst the community but first let's take a look at our sponsor who made this video possible today's video is sponsored by blinkist one thing about my life which i'm sure is true for lots of you as well is that i'm very busy it can be hard to find the time to read and grow as a person when there are so many responsibilities in everyday life what if there is a way to be exposed to new ideas in the small sections of the day where we do have time and that's where blinkist comes in it's a site which takes non-fiction books and compresses them down into 15 minute explanations called blinks this allows me to get some of the key ideas of a book in a more efficient time span one blink that i found interesting was bad blood by john kiriyu a true story of what happens when the hype train for a silicon valley startup went off the rails i also enjoyed 24 6 by tiffany schlain which talked about the benefits of taking a day off of electronics each week i may never have experienced these ideas if it weren't for blinkist and i'm just getting started there are thousands of titles in 27 categories it's a really cool idea and i'm looking forward to seeing more of what blinkist has to offer the first hundred people to go to blinkist.com plus retro gaming now are going to get unlimited access for one week to try it out you'll also get 25 off if you want the full membership the seven day trial is completely free and you can cancel it at any time so there's no pressure thanks once again to blinkist for sponsoring the video minecraft started as a project by a single developer named notch back in 2009 he had experience in the java programming language and he used code from a previous project called rubydong of which very few screenshots exist minecraft however was not an isometric top-down game instead it was fully 3d the idea of building and placing blocks is found in its earliest versions initially everything was a sandbox although notch expressed interest in adding survival modes which were implemented in the survival tests another major milestone was infidev where not experimented with the idea of infinite worlds from there the game entered alpha then beta then eventually a full release in 2011. it was at this time that mojing the company which notch had founded began to think about expanding minecraft to a broader audience the next logical step was to turn minecraft into a mobile app thus minecraft pocket edition was born while it started on the xperia play it quickly spread to the rest of the android and ios phones pocket edition was different from the main version of minecraft in many ways it was not written in java but in c plus additionally the development team essentially started from scratch they didn't have years of cumulative updates to build upon this allowed them to focus on making the game optimized for mobile devices from the very beginning mojang chose to release the alpha version of pocket edition to the general public in october of 2011 and to be frank the initial alpha version was downright awful the java version of minecraft would soon update to its full release with a slew of new features such as enchanting potion brewing a new dimension the ender dragon and villagers in contrast the pocket edition was so feature deficient as to be downright frustrating you could neither mine nor craft in this version in fact crafting as a mechanic would not be added for nearly 8 months the list of obtainable blocks was very limited the world was not infinite there was no survival mode and even the pseudo-creative world didn't have flight enabled from the perspective of someone who was used to the pc version minecraft pocket edition wasn't simply inferior it was so far behind the main version that my immediate thought was that this was unplayable why spend time learning clunky controls just to play a game that was little more than a shell of the main version however despite its rocky start developers continued to work on the game improving it with each new update survival was added then crafting then more mobs and slowly but surely the pocket edition began to catch up with the main version it was during this development process that notch sold mojang and minecraft to microsoft for 2.5 billion us dollars development of the game was no longer done by a small independent team now there were the resources of one of the world's largest companies which could be invested into the game microsoft was no slouch in the gaming industry as the developer of the xbox series and the windows operating system they saw the huge potential in the game and in the post microsoft era we saw an increase in the pace and size of pocket edition updates by 2016 pocket edition rivaled the pc version in terms of a complete feature set we can also tell that microsoft had bigger plans for this game during this phase the number of supported platforms began to grow windows phone got pocketed edition in 2014 windows 10 also got a port which led confusingly to a pair of different versions on pc and then in september of 2017 the concept of the bedrock edition finally matured microsoft chose to in the pocket edition title they added support for the xbox one as well as cross play now anyone on bedrock could play with anyone else on bedrock it was a major step forward in the process and served as the moment in time where bedrock finally gained its identity no longer a mishmash of similar versions minecraft bedrock was a collection of games that were fundamentally the same version even to the point of a unified multiplayer experience this was microsoft's plan all along bringing minecraft to as many platforms as possible using a version designed for lower power systems it was a brilliant strategy and it enabled far more access to minecraft than ever before but there was a pesky problem what to do with the original version of minecraft remember all these bedrock versions were based on a different code base yet the pc version that was a direct descendant of notch still existed and it was being updated as well while similar it was not the same and it wouldn't work with the new cross-platform infrastructure and it's here that microsoft made a decision which i believe to be one of the first sparks of the java and bedrock debate what they did was rename the bedrock versions to simply minecraft and to call the original pc version minecraft java edition from a purely practical perspective this change meant nothing both games still played as they had before but the implications were deeper the bedrock edition was now presented as the primary version worthy of the name minecraft but the original it was relegated to second fiddle not the main course but just another edition amongst the core community this change was unpopular the windows bedrock edition was not the same in many ways it had microtransactions for one the perception among some players was that bedrock edition was clearly designed as the money maker and through this name change microsoft was making it clear that they viewed bedrock as the main version of minecraft what was to stop them from pulling the plug on java edition and seizing to support it despite assurances that java would stick around other fears developed was microsoft going to inundate it with microtransactions remove the ability for custom servers shut down modding support in present day we know these fears did not come to pass microsoft continues to develop both versions and neither of the two is explicitly better in terms of support still i have to wonder if this moment of tension is what really started the java vs bedrock debate while i don't know for sure if this was microsoft's intention the implication was that the younger version was the quote-unquote correct minecraft it was a huge tactical blunder by microsoft while it wouldn't have solved all problems calling one version bedrock edition and one version java edition would have at least helped avoid the perception of microsoft viewing java as inferior while the name change is an important part of this debate discussion it's certainly not the only element the split would have been a lot easier to swallow if it weren't for the fact that there is not a one-to-one feature parity between the java and bedrock editions there are features that only exist in java and features that only exist in bedrock some of these differences are a product of the individual platforms and thus make a lot of sense for example the ui in bedrock is clearly designed for devices which don't have a mouse features such as speed bridging help overcome the control limitations of the platforms there are also differences that come from the programming language bedrock tends to perform much more smoothly than java edition which is logical considering that it was built from the ground up to support mobile devices on the other hand bedrock has a reputation for being buggy if i had to guess i would say this is because it's on so many more platforms a related difference is the ease of modding while bedrock is improving in this regard java has a rich tradition of mods to the game from the early days of tekkit and technic to more modern packs like feed the beast and rl craft this is also logical it's clearly much easier to make changes to a pc game than a console game which is why microsoft needed to add an api for the bedrock edition i would say that all the differences we've mentioned thus far are logical extensions of the two versions which boil down to either the language or the platforms but then there are some differences that are quite frankly head scratching redstone for example behaves differently between the editions and for a serious redstone engineer it's enough to cause many to reject bedrock edition altogether combat is also fundamentally different the spammy attacks of bedrock result in a totally different feel than the timed attacks of java the offhand system works differently bedrock players can put a select few items in the offhand whereas java players can put whatever they want there are differences in the loot tables villagers sell different things cauldrons only have potions in bedrock the amount of light radiated by certain blocks is different fence gates look different discs are found in different places the wither is stronger in bedrock java has spectator mode bedrock has fallen trees java has more world types bedrock centers the chat java has different banner patterns steak is called cooked beef and bedrock the font is even different sorry i went a bit off the rails there but this to me is just so frustrating these countless minor differences add up and for so many of them there's not an obvious reason why it works one way in java in a different way in bedrock the thing is the developers know this there's an official page on the wiki called the parody issue list i encourage you to look through it to see just how bad of a problem this is on and on and on there are little differences between the two this doesn't help calm the debate whatsoever in fact it stokes the fire the cumulative effect of these changes is not negligible and i really find myself wishing that mojang had decided to put forth more effort to ensure that java and bedrock were more equal in terms of gameplay experience most of these differences are very minor it would not be challenging to make it so that both versions have the same crossbow durability for example but for whatever reason they haven't done this instead they've let the versions diverge in countless minor ways now i'm not trying to be harsh on the developers there may very well be a reason for many or all of these subtle differences i also understand that there are a lot of different versions and keeping consistency would be a challenge what i suspect is that there hasn't been a true commitment to virgin parody and the coordination it would entail might be the reason they haven't done it nonetheless i think it would be possible to make a serious dent in these issues if they wanted to do so but that doesn't seem to be their plan and the result of this decision is more fuel on the fire i would argue that these differences well make a difference it contributes to the feeling that i've certainly experienced switching from one version to the other version just feels off in some way there's something not quite right if i had to guess it's one of the effects of these little variations it can create a bit of an uncanny valley type situation but the game is so close to being what we expect but the tiny bit that's different sours the whole thing so far we've looked at two things which i think are important reasons for this debate the first is the name change placing bedrock above java the second is the multitude of inexplicable small differences but i think there's at least one more big reason for this debate and it especially explains why these arguments tend to become emotional and angry the third difference is the segregated multiplayer one of the huge strengths of the bedrock edition is that there's cross-platform play with anyone else on bedrock you can play on a phone with someone on an xbox or someone in the windows 10 edition this multiplayer infrastructure includes the marketplace where players can buy map packs that work on all bedrock editions i won't get into the debate on microtransactions here the point is that the experience is unified across all of the bedrock editions i can buy a map pack and send it to a friend on a totally different console and we can play together meanwhile java players have their own set of servers and some of these servers are pretty old such as the infamous 2b2t which has been around since 2010. it's not uncommon for a java player to spend a lot of time on a particular server learning the community and building cool things now let's imagine a scenario where i just met a new person in real life we're talking about video games and we learned that both of us love to play minecraft awesome we can play minecraft together but it turns out that i played bedrock and you play java so we can't play multiplayer the servers are different oh well then at least let me download your cool build so i can play it on bedrock but we can't easily do that either oh you're getting into this mod pack called feed the beast too bad i don't have that on bedrock um can you at least send me your cool skin so i can use it on my xbox well about that do you see what's happening here the dual version system by its very existence creates a divide it's easier for java players to talk to java players and it's easier for bedrock players to talk to bedrock players i have to wonder if this has anything to do with why the debate rages so fiercely the system exists in such a way that it becomes increasingly hard to experience the other side since there's so much that doesn't carry over it's a pretty tall task to convince someone to leave their version when all their builds and all their friends would be left behind minecraft for many people is a very emotional game there are a lot of players who grew up on one version or the other the worlds we create they mean something to us we're not just beating levels in a game we're building our own places our own stories and like it or not the version we play can become a part of this emotional investment if i'm a java player and i've been playing for years all of those fond memories are connected to the java version while bedrock is still minecraft it's not quite the same is it so to reiterate the dual version system naturally pushes people into two camps and there's also incentive to stay in that camp and when we spend so much time with a certain game with certain people and certain mechanics we can associate those fond memories with our specific version the criticism of our audition can sometimes feel like a criticism of these memories someone claims that bedrock is the inferior version are they saying that all of the friends and all the things i built were done on a relatively bad game i don't know if this is actually a factor or not but maybe it's a way to help explain why people get so aggressive when defending one of the other obviously this isn't universal there are certainly debates that remain civil that switch from the beginning though that turns a mild-mannered person into a raging argument machine i have to wonder if the deep emotional connection so many of us feel to the game helps explain this at the very least i think it's true for me this video is looking at the problem as a whole but at the same time i'm trying to understand why i personally get sucked into these arguments but is that really who we want to be as a community do we want to think down upon the people who play a different version than us do we want to find ourselves typing angrily at a person with whom we have so much in common besides the specific version of the game we play let's take a collective breath it's okay to talk about the differences but it makes me sad to see fellow minecraft players going after each other's throats when the temptation arises maybe we can make the choice not to pull the switch it's time to start wrapping things up i have some concluding remarks to make as i mentioned i think some of the blame for this debate falls on microsoft the name change and the lack of version parody or both decisions which i feel made this whole situation worse than it needed to be but even if neither of those had happened the natural split in the community may still have resulted in these types of debates it's hard to know for sure i want to make something clear this whole analysis is just how i see the issue i've been playing for over a decade and i also get to talk to the community on a regular basis as part of being a content creator i feel that this gives me a unique perspective when it comes to understanding the debate as i've seen it play out more times than most people still we all have some sort of bias i've done my best to think about this whole thing from a neutral third party perspective nonetheless if i accidentally said something that was aggressive or unnecessary i want to apologize for that more than most videos this is a very subjective topic i want to hear your thoughts did any of the things i said resonate with you or is there an angle that i didn't see this is a phenomenon that doesn't exist in quite the same way with any other game i've played and hopefully this video helped us deconstruct some of the possible reasons for this debate as always you can head on over to the rg and discord or subreddit to share your responses i'm genuinely looking forward to reading your thoughts we'll go ahead and end with that this has been retro gaming now thank you so much for watching and i'll see you all next time have a great day [Music] you

Channel: RetroGamingNow

Views: 329,316

Rating: 4.9435163 out of 5

Keywords: Retro, Gaming, Now, RetroGamingNow, RGN, Let's, Play, Minecraft, Java Edition, Bedrock Edition, java vs bedrock, Parity, Community, Rage, Debate, history

Id: ujp9aiYSzHA

Length: 18min 38sec (1118 seconds)

Published: Fri Sep 10 2021

Reddit Comments

[u/DecLXIV]

The devs said their decision to make Hytale cross-platform did not affect the release in any way and that the game would've been released in a similar 2023 window regardless

[u/EpicArchmage]

do we need to repeat the same reasons again since they still havent changed? things at rest remain at rest, and these kinds of posts should be put to rest.

[u/gianniskouremenos3]

Wait, they are releasing it to other platforms ?

[u/LuxuriantCarrot2]

If they're going to make it cross-platform, then at least have some linux support for goodness sake! They could just use a cross platform rendering engine. The only problem i see here though is anticheat.

[u/kfm2001_]

Reason 1

Money