When Hardship Threatens to Sink You with Lysa TerKeurst

hey friends welcome back to the passion and purpose podcast most of you know my guest today the one and only Lisa turkhurst Lisa is the president of proverbs 31 Ministries and is the number one New York Times best-selling author of books like Uninvited it's not supposed to be this way forgiving what you can't forget and her latest book good boundaries and goodbyes in this episode we talk about how to handle heartbreak Theology and therapy the beauty of scripture and cultivating healthy boundaries it's such an honor to have Lisa on the podcast so welcome to my conversation with Lisa turkhurst questions hi everyone welcome to the passion and purpose podcast with myself Louie Giglio and a really really special friend on the podcast today I'm so excited that she is with us I hope that this podcast is helpful to her and helps her get her writing career off the ground this is my goal today just an inside joke for the person who owns the New York Times bestseller list which I am still trying to get on one time I think my guest today has been on the New York Times bestseller list like for a couple years running at some seasons of time so obviously what she's writing is striking a chord with people and I want to get to the heart of that today and figure out why that is happening and why God is using her uh her message in such powerful way so welcome Lisa turkhurst if you will the founder of proverbs 31 Ministries obviously one of the best known authors on planet Earth right now so glad to have you on the podcast today thanks oh thank you so much Louie I think your uh introduction was very generous so um maybe I need that to be my ringtone I can just listen to that each day and it'll it'll it Infuse my heart with great encouragement so I expected you to come in with that response and I obviously you can't say yes it is true and quite amazing that I was on the New York I'm the best seller list for two years running but uh books like Uninvited it's not supposed to be this way forgiving what you can't forget these are just massive messages Lisa and before we dive into to your new book and kind of un unpack what you're really wanting to communicate through that book why do you feel like your message is connecting so powerfully to people you know I am grateful for that I think maybe it's because I write from my point of struggle not strength and I think when someone picks up a book more than wanting to be taught at first they want to be understood and there's a great gift that you can give to someone who is hurting in some area of their life to walk alongside them and assure them that you understand the depth of their pain so they can trust your advice on that same level you know things happen to us in life some of them are our choices some of them are not our choices and all of us find ourselves navigating difficult situations and I think especially when there's a spotlight on you Lisa you're the founder of proverbs 31 Ministries I mean you have blazed a trail especially for women but for men and women to really love God's word and you love God's word and that's evident about you and every time I've been around you it's just evident how much you love the word of God and love the god of the word but yet we have bumps in our in our journey and some of them are actually a lot bigger than bumps and I think we I do ourselves a disservice when we want to push them to the side and we miss the opportunity to really bring the grace and goodness of God to other people and that's what happens when we're vulnerable and when we let people in on the struggle and you've done that over these past few years in a really powerful way well thank you yeah there's a big difference between privacy and secrecy I believe in holding a lot of details private for the sake of healing but I refuse to keep secrets for the purpose of hiding and not being honest with what what it is that I'm I'm walking through um you know so many parts of my story the past 10 years I did not want to live that it reminds me in Mark chapter 14 starting in verse 32 when we read about some of Jesus's last moments in the Garden of Gethsemane he says two profound things that I relate to so much and he says I am deeply troubled I'm overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death and then he also says Abba Father everything is possible for you take this cup from me and I relate to those words of Jesus so much because I have begged God that um the some of the realities that I'm living now being a divorced woman experiencing the death of my marriage I begged God for a different outcome but that was the outcome that that happened and the death of my marriage I think is the most significant heartbreak that I've ever been through it's not something I wanted um at all and yet if I've got to walk through it I am bound and determined that I am gonna make the enemy regret that he messed with a woman like me so as you're taking this journey together you have a podcast and an ongoing conversation and in the podcast uh Theology and therapy are two big anchors for you talk about why you're choosing to frame everything both with theology that's kind of obvious and with therapy well because both were so crucial in my healing journey I um I desperately needed to dig into scripture and and really seek throughout the Journey of me trying so hard to fight for my marriage and then watching my marriage end I had so much angst around this fear that Not only was I gonna disappoint God but that I would lead other people to believe that you know that I thought marriage wasn't important or encouraged them to walk away from their marriages and that was the last thing in the world that I wanted to do I I'm a big proponent of marriage and that's why I fought so hard and so long for my marriage not and and so the theology part was digging into some of those verses that I had misunderstood and yet brought great clarity when I had access to solid theologians to help me study them one of those is Malachi chapter 216 where it says in some versions of the Bible God hates divorce but that version of that verse didn't come about until after the King James version or during the King James version in the original language that verse actually says when a man hates and divorces his wife he does violence against the one he should protect and so you can see there that having a deeper understanding of that verse could alleviate so much so much angst that I was experiencing in my heart and then the therapy side is just quite honestly I desperately needed someone to walk me through the very complicated emotions of the devastations that I was experiencing I needed both the emotional healing and the spiritual healing and combining those two gave me so much comfort and I think made me a much healthier individual there's so many people in our world in the church world that are like all you need is God's word and all you need is prayer and God's power and that's all you need to get better to heal to recover but be restored and there's a whole new wave of people that are just like all you need is the latest greatest you know thing whatever that is in the world right now and somehow you're bringing these two things together even I was listening to the podcast uh recently and you've got a theologian sitting right there with you you've got your counselor your personal counselor sitting right there with you and the conversation it feels complete in a way talk about navigating that in our present world and how people want to tip to one side or to the other yeah you know it's interesting I don't know where Theology and therapy got separated because their I would say are so many therapeutic principles that are straight from the Bible and you know it they they are supposed to work together and I believe that God does give a great calling to Christian therapists to be the I guess experts or people with educated understandings of some of the deeper emotional issues um that's their calling and so God Is providing what we need we just have to choose to take both parts of it the Theology and the therapy I always tease my um my listeners sometimes with the fact that Joel Dr Joel munamale he brings the theology Jim Crest brings the therapy and I bring the issues and so it works because I have lots of issues we never run out of things to talk about so it's really good and it provides some free therapy and Theological study sessions for me which is great too uh just give me the snapshot of these books so I'm sure a lot of people listening to us have read them or will read them in the future but uh forgiving what you can't forget what's the snapshot of that book resistance to forgiveness how about uninvited rejection it's not supposed to be this way navigating deep disappointments in life yeah that's why I believe that's the answer to I think where we started these are these are issues that everyone is dealing with on some level and I think that the relational dysfunction that happens around us is part of a broken world and there's no way to to avoid it in life and I think how we respond to it is going to be a Difference Maker for us your new book it's called good boundaries and goodbyes just let's take the book and set it aside for a moment let's just talk about the title because you're really into titles of books and you work very hard on it in fact you're an expert on it and you advise people on it I was never happier when you told me that you liked the title of my last book I was like okay that's good because you have you figured out how to um how to grab titles that grab people so how did you do that how did you figure out the whole title thing the whole how did you get to become the expert my friends go to you and and I should be coming to you and you help them hone their message you helped them craft their title you help them with you know what is this book really need to say and how does it need to say it how did you fall into that lane well I don't write my books without an audience so I have a kind of a different flow I um I involve a focus group the same group of people for each book um and it's about 40 to 50 women and they are as important as any other aspect of my book writing and it's a different group for each book um but they give me language around the topic that maybe expands my vocabulary so my writing becomes more relatable to different people and how they phrase different things and a lot of times the titles for my books comes out of my discussions so the way that these groups work I will write two or three chapters and I send them raw material and they give me very honest feedback and we meet uh it used to be in person but now we do it over zoom and they have permission to speak freely because I don't sit in their small group so if we have 40 people then we have four small groups of 10 some of my staff members kind of collect all of their feedback but they have such permission to speak freely and one of the best things that that group does for me besides help me think through the title um is they share with me skepticism that they have so I can write to the skepticism and not avoid it and I think that's a deeply connecting aspect of my writing with my eventual readers brilliant my friend Matt Redman always would say to write with the door open that was the phrase he used when he was songwriting and I think man we we want to protect our art but to hone the craft of really becoming great out at anything in life you've got to be willing to open yourself up to the process of listening to people and what's an example of how somebody said hey talk about writing to skip to the skeptic or to skepticism can you give them an example of that yeah so it's pretty common when I'm writing that my writing steps on my own toes and there's usually some point in every book where I want to throw the book across the room because I just think how unfair this principle is this biblical principle or how hard it is to live this out and so I don't ignore that when I have that feeling bubbling up in me I know the reader is going to have that feeling bubbling up in them and so I will say if I were you I would want to throw the book across the room right now I get it because I want to throw my own book across the rim and so that's an example another example especially with the topic of boundaries um I wrote I you know this is easy to type out these pixelated letters on paper it's so hard to have these conversations and so because I acknowledge how challenging these conversations are I want to give you scripts to follow that you can take and make your own so that you're not so frustrated when you come up with a good boundary but you don't know how to talk about it and so not only do I step into their skepticism but I try to solve the issue that the skepticism is bringing to the surface so helpful let's talk about the book good boundaries and good buys um where does this one fit in the Arc of the narrative that that you're on in terms of the last few books well I've heard people say this completes a Trilogy and I appreciate that you know then the trilogy being it's not supposed to be this way forgiving what you can't forget and now good boundaries and goodbyes that was not done intentionally so if this is a part of a the last book of a Trilogy then um I think God put that together not me because I'm not quite that organized but I understand that this feels like a very long journey that I've been on and um this is the ending of that journey and the beginning of a new Journey and so good boundaries and goodbyes really was birthed out of when I experienced the death of my marriage and I was no longer working on that marriage I kept going to therapy and needing to work on myself and admitting that I had work to do and probably the biggest area of work I needed to do was understanding healthy boundaries and how healthy boundaries can lead to healthier relationships I always have this angst Louis that boundaries felt a little unkind maybe unchristian and I didn't have the emotional fortitude or the biblical confidence to actually Implement healthy boundaries and if you look at any kind of relationship where you feel like you're doing a little dysfunctional dance show me the relational chaos and I'll show you where there's a lack of boundaries so let's take it head on you just mentioned it um what gives you the biblical confidence to to really lean into the idea of healthy boundaries well when I started studying in the Bible with this question in my mind is God okay with boundaries I was shocked when I started in Genesis 1 to realize God established the foundations of the world using boundaries he separated the dry land from the sea the light from the dark those are all examples of boundaries then of all the topics that God could have chosen to be the subject matter of the first recorded conversation between God and man in Genesis 2 God chose the topic of a boundary wow he says to Adam you are free so I was like wow look at what God's doing he's establishing where the freedom is and the only way to do that is to establish where the boundary lines are you are free to eat from any tree in the garden not overly restrictive absolutely he's still providing for Adam's needs you are free to eat from any tree in the garden but you must not eat from this tree this is the parameter the rule the boundary the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil and a consequence or else you'll die and what God is establishing there with Adam is such a gift because he's establishing where the Freedom Is So Adam doesn't have to walk on eggshells and wonder every time he plucks something from a tree is this okay is this okay is this okay so these boundaries just gave such a beautiful experience of Freedom with some protection which is that one restriction the knowledge of Good and Evil God did not want Adam or any human to have to carry the weight of the knowledge of evil and that's why he wanted to protect Adam from that and protect all of us from that and then when Adam violated the boundary Adam and Eve then um there were consequences and my therapist always says a boundary without a consequence is nothing but a bad suggestion and so I started to gain a lot of spiritual confidence biblical confidence that boundaries are not just a good idea they're actually God's idea and then probably my biggest biblical aha in this whole process was watching and reading how God put the temple together and how he granted access to certain people not all people and the greater the access someone had to the holy of whole all leading up to the holy of holies the greater responsibility that they had to bring and the greater consequence would be the more severe the consequences would be and so the thing that was just so incredibly eye-opening to me is when I think about those words when I think about access responsibility and consequence the high priest have the greatest amount of access therefore he had to carry the greatest level of responsibility and he suffered the greatest consequence only the high priest could go into the holy of holies once a year to make atonement for the people and that kind of access required that he be perfectly purified and cleansed or else he would drop dead so I started thinking about especially those two words access and responsibility and I discovered a huge problem I was having so I was giving level 10 access to people who were only demonstrating level three responsibility great and the difference between that is where the chaos and the lack of boundaries usually existed so the mistake I was making also was that when that was happening I kept trying to put a boundary on that person to Bringing level three responsibility to make them be more responsible with the access that I'm giving them but the frustration came when I couldn't control or change another person using external pressure so I realized I have to put a boundary around myself and if they are only willing or capable of level three responsibility the boundary I put on myself is to reduce the access I grant them down to level three so relational equilibrium can be achieved why would you why do we want to give people greater access than they're willing to be responsible for so why were you giving the person level 10 access when they obviously didn't earn it didn't deserve it couldn't be responsible with it because I wasn't aware of what I was doing and when we know better we do better I just kept being so frustrated thinking in my mind why isn't this person doing what should be done with this kind of relationship that we're in and honestly Louis another confession that I will make is I've struggled with people pleasing and it just felt so many times like being in Ministry I just didn't have the same kind of permission that other people had to say no and so I was always doing this weird dance of wanting to keep other people happy which somehow in my mind validated my testimony more or validated me being in Ministry more but as I worked on this in therapy I started to realize that it was actually really selfish of me to be people pleasing because I wasn't just people pleasing to keep other people happy I was trying to keep other people happy so they wouldn't take for me what I felt like they provided that I wouldn't be okay in this world if they took it away and so I was afraid to draw boundaries because I was afraid of what that other person would take away from me I think we will always be desperate to get from other people what we fear we will never get from God yeah talk about the other side of this um Jesus you know everybody's going to bring up Jesus at this point and say Jesus had no boundaries Jesus went the extra mile he gave it all he made himself vulnerable he you know he opened up completely totally to everyone talk about your response to that well Jesus wasn't close friends with the entire world though the entire world may have been fascinated with him at certain points of his ministry to want to be best friends with him he chose three and then you know he chose 12 and then he had concentric circles and Jesus's Divinity was absolute perfection and complete but his Humanity was dealing with the same grit and grime that we do here on Earth and I agree Jesus absolutely laid down his life and and called us to lay down our life for our friends but Jesus laid down his One Life to accomplish a high and holy purpose he did not lay down his One Life to enable bad behavior to continue wow that's a that that is a a perfect um I think segue into to all of our Lives what when do we know we need a boundary let's just start there and do you always have to explain the boundary to the person that you need the boundary from well again my wise therapist has told me ingrained this in my head adults inform children explain so we do need to inform people of our boundaries and um and if they have questions certainly we can discuss it but we don't need to debate it and we don't need to explain why it's necessary and we definitely don't need to say I'm establishing this boundary okay so I'm not saying you ever do that Louie I do that um so show me the relational chaos in your life and I will show you where there's a lack of a boundary where there's this frustration in your heart where you start to think I can't keep doing this I don't know how much more of this I can take or you get so worn down and frazzled where you start to say I don't know what else to do but if this doesn't get better I'm out and we tend to let things go so long to where suddenly we start reacting in extremes either we become a complete complete people pleaser and we just keep saying yes to everything to try to keep everybody happy which is exhausting or the opposite extreme is we get so frazzled and frustrated that we just shove the other person away boundaries help us bring all of that back to the middle boundaries are not meant to shove others away they're to help hold me together and so boundaries should never be used as a tool to control manipulate or punish another person boundaries are help me stay self-controlled and that's my responsibility what do you say for the person who realizes there's chaos but they don't know which boundary to set they don't really they're so in the chaos that they don't really know how to establish a healthy boundary well in good boundaries and goodbyes I have lots of lists where people can become a little more self-aware of what it is that's really bothering them and here's a couple of those things to consider where in my life am I diminishing the best of who I am to cover up for the worst of who somebody else is great question to consider right um where am I saying yes or to whom am I saying yes to when I clearly know I should be saying no and where am I hyper extending my capacity to the point of bankruptcy not requiring the other person to be more responsible with the access that I'm giving them and here's a great way to sort of think through this Louis I can tell you with certainty that you are already doing boundaries really really well even if you've had thoughts throughout this interview that you're not as good at boundaries as you want to be um I'm not putting that on you I'm just saying I can prove to you you really are good at boundaries are you ready yep okay do you have a bank account I do do you have a security passcode on your bank account yes I do seven eight five three okay so Louie do you have unlimited resources in your bank account no I do not okay so it wouldn't be wise for you to give us all instructions of how we could have absolute access to all the money you have in your bank account right for sure is that because you're unchristian uh it's because I'm wise it's because you're wise you know that if you gave free access to everyone to have your your bank account information and for everyone to be able to get to the money in your bank account you know that I would be unwise because you don't know if everyone would be responsible with that kind of access therefore you limit the access down to the level of responsibility I have zero access to your bank account Louis and it's because I have demonstrated zero responsibility with your money you just don't have an experience with me it's not that you had a bad experience you just don't know how responsible I would be and that's not because you're unkind unchristian or terrible Pastor it's because you're wise so you don't bankrupt yourself we know this really really well with our bank account but we forget it with other areas of capacity in our life with our relational capacity with our time capacity with our emotional capacity we just forget that we are not unlimited only God has a limitless Supply I talked about a few years back and have talked pretty openly about it when I fell into this pit of depression that I didn't know existed before I found myself in it I'm kind of coming out of that and trying to peel back some of the layers I I don't know exactly the formula it got me that got me into that pit but I know that there were two last hands that kind of pushed me over the edge and they were a need for control and an unhealthy need of approval of other people and we were planning Passion City Church at the time that I fell in this hole we were just in the early stages and I think I I learned right on the front end Lisa that the last job you want if you are if you need control or you need the approval of people is to be the pastor of a church because it's God's church and you're not going to have control and if you do have control it's not going to be a very healthy church and the need for approval is just not going to happen and I think that I want to just talk about that for a minute because I feel like the reason why we are bankrupt half the time is because of our own need for approval and and like you said earlier it's not really our desire to to be more like Jesus it's our the fact that we haven't really realized how much Jesus loves and accepts us as we are right now and is what we need he is what we need who we need in life so how before we get to the chaos and the boundary and I'm depleted I need to learn how to say no more I think I need to learn how to say yes to him somehow as a precursor to being able to say no to other things Louie I relate to that so much another struggle that I have is um is social anxiety sometimes if I am placed in a situation where I walk into a room or a reception and everybody's already talking to somebody and I'm just there by myself and it creates this really anxious feeling in me and so often I would find myself going over to the guy serving the sodas and just engaging in some deep ridiculous conversation with him he was probably like woman go away I'm trying to serve sodas but I was just so desperate to feel like I belong in that room and so many times I would just make an appearance and then at a gathering like that and then I would go back to my hotel room and just think that's just not for me one time when that happened the Lord really challenged me and I felt like the Lord was saying Lisa you were walking in that room desperate for acceptance and approval instead of walking into that room bringing my acceptance bringing my love into that room bringing my peace into that room do you not realize that every single person in there is desperate for that same kind of acceptance approval and love and I don't want you walking into any more of those rooms begging others for scraps of all of that I want you to live from the place that I have accepted you I love you and you are a conduit of my peace and my acceptance and my love to other people so you walk into that room bringing that with you and the atmosphere will change for you and it did and based on that social anxiety and my desperate need for approval and acceptance and all of that doing that practice of walking into rooms realizing that I don't want to walk in there begging other people for what they can give me I want to walk in there eager to give that to other people it started to change something in me and it helped me learn to live from a place of love from a place of acceptance not desperate for it from other people so when we draw healthy boundaries if we are scared that by putting a healthy boundary in place that that other person is going to reject us chances are that other person's eventually going to reject us whether we have a boundary or not it's just are we going to be sane throughout the process are we going to remain self-controlled in the process healthy people respect healthy boundaries but unhealthy people usually have never met a boundary that they really like sounds so good what what is um how do we get to the power of no I think it I love what you're saying and I do uh I'm 100 behind this idea that we live from acceptance and not for it this is the kingdom and of course we're stuck in a world right now that disconnected you know the the love of God from the way that we do life together so we're all living in this social media metaverse that is constructed by people void of the pure love of God for each one of us and so you know we live by the like and the likes actually the shape of a heart isn't that awesome you know if it's a YouTube view it's a thumbs up that seems like a like hey good job but if it's my Instagram post it's a heart that is the like and so it's kind of like getting underneath the surface without God's love saying this is how you get approved this is how you get value this is where you get accredited in our world and I think we've just got to come into that knowing I already have a stamp of approval on my life and I am moving with the love of my father every single step of my life and connecting that and so we start there but then I think for me it's learning the most powerful word in my vocabulary is not the word yes it's the word no it's the most powerful word that I have but people are afraid to use it well with the Instagram thing here's a really challenging but good practice to try post something and refuse to look at it for the next week just post it and don't go back and look at it and then maybe post again and don't go back and look at it and eventually if you want to you can go back and respond to comments and you know all of that but too many times I think we're posting and refreshing and refreshing and refreshing and that's feeding that notion that I have to get this and it's really chemicals being released in our brain that we can become addicted to so I think we need to manage that and so much about boundaries is putting boundaries on ourself so that we can stay self-controlled because we are called by God to demonstrate self-control um but with the other aspect I think we need to be true to the kindness that we want to demonstrate and feel the freedom to say no so I'm going to give you a script that might help this is my standard script and I mean this with all the authenticity in my body so many times people make requests of me and I know every time I say yes to one thing I'm gonna have to say no to other things or I'm going to risk bankrupting myself which can happen and then I'm not going to be any good to anybody especially the people who are closest to me which I should be my best version of myself for the people closest to me so I have a script that says dear Sally thank you so much for thinking of me with this opportunity while my heart says yes yes yes the reality of my time makes this a no I cannot do that but I am willing and can give this or I just say the reality of my time is a No period thank you for understanding love Lisa so it gives me an opportunity to be authentic like my heart does say yes my heart would love to do this but the reality of my time makes it a no I'm trying to also with that um which I am 100 with you I am trying not to apologize for saying no so I don't want in that script to say I'm sorry but it's a no because now I'm taking you know on the guilt of doing the right thing and I shouldn't feel guilty about making the right decision and I think sometimes when we say I'm sorry we end up getting a negotiating email coming back to us saying hmm maybe there's a little opening here I'll come back with a different request I think clear concise sincere I am so grateful that you included me in this idea whatever this opportunity but for me right now it's a no thanks for understanding bye you know beautiful well it sounds simple but you know when you actually go to do it you're gonna naturally feel some anxiety sometimes I feel some anxiety around it and I also have to challenge myself to take an honest capacity um assessment and think in this season in this time of my life what is my capacity and think through I have more capacity in some areas of my life less capacity in others so I have to be honest with myself and my therapist always says we prepare in times of strength for times of weakness so if I do an assessment of my capacity during a time where I don't have all the emotional complications of a request that someone's made then I've prepared in that time of strength for a time of struggle or weakness and so go ahead and have my scripts ready and this is what it is and also challenge myself that I don't want to say no to everything but I do want to say no to the things that are not my assignment and that frees them to go on and make the request of someone else who may be it would be their assignment so yeah I think another thing that's been helpful for me is to start my day with what is the thing that I'm saying yes to today so before I open my email or before I have a meeting or before I'm in the flow with other people who you know have access a lot of different ways to my time I want to know what is it I want to do today because if I don't decide that it's going to get decided for me and it might be a good decision and it might be an okay decision but somebody is ready right you know from the drop to help me decide what I'm going to focus on on any given day so the no is great but the no is is available because I've already said this is the thing I'm going to do today if I don't do anything else today I'm going to do I feel like God is leading me to do this thing today I have purpose today versus you know I just think opening your email at the start of your day is the worst idea of all I mean let me can I I can make another confession to you I've given up on email I just I just decided one day I'm quitting email and people figure it out so let's Lisa start a movement I'll join it I'll happily cash out my AOL account today yeah I quit email and I also um my voicemail has been full since 2017. because if it's full then nobody can provide their to-do list onto me through voicemail and so people figure it out you know and I and I've stopped apologizing for that I just I just say I'll show you I have 147 000 emails in my inbox I can show you the number right here on my phone you're welcome to email me but I I will not yeah and it's probably never I'm probably I just want to be honest I'm not great at email I'm not great at voicemail and a lot of it has to do with my capacity and my commitment to staying healthy you know I did this little exercise that I opened up my journal one day and I said Lisa write down the qualities that demonstrates the best of who you really are and I wrote down I'm generous I'm hospitable I am kind I am peaceful I'm fun I'm witty and I wrote all those things down and then the second thing I wrote in my journal who is Lisa when she is frazzled and possibly fractured because of hyper extending and bankrupting her capacity in areas of her life and I wrote that list down and I am self-protective I am quiet I withdraw I get skeptical of other people I get bitter about everyday requests that I shouldn't get bitter about and I just want the world to go away and then I wrote in my journal I need to learn to love others well without losing the best of who I am and that became the subtitle of good boundaries and goodbyes well you do that well obviously my wife Shelly adores you and counts you as a really great friend to her and I know that you have been all of those things on your good list to to my wife and so thank you you give her so much life and every time she's around you or spends time with you it really fills her tank up as well so I love the good Lisa because I see it reflected in her I remember coming home one night when you were at our house and you guys were all around our little Breakfast Table Painting watercolor paintings which we still have all of the ones from that night by the way and um I thought this is so great I don't think we've ever done any watercolor painting at The Breakfast Table maybe we should take that up but you you paint beautifully for people and you've been generous with your life and I just want to thank you for that I know it is a calling but it's really made a big difference in a lot of people's story Lisa for you to be so generous with um the good and the not so great in your story so thank you for that and I hope everybody will lean into good boundaries and good buys so I pray God's Gonna breathe on it in a really powerful way and really take the message in in a way that's exponentially greater than you're even dreaming about well thank you so much I appreciate it and um yes Shelly is so funny Louie because she knows she can't leave me a voicemail and she knows I don't check email so she leaves me voice memos and sends them to me through texting but here's the key Shelly has been so responsible with that kind of access in my life that I she's one of the people I can give level 10 access to because she brings level 10 responsibility and I love her for it yeah she's the most responsible person on planet Earth so that is the gift for me I know for sure and anybody that is in her wake she is amazing thanks so much for your time today I'm really really grateful to have this conversation and I'm really um I really am hopeful for this message going into people's lives and I know it's going to be incredible so thanks for being on the podcast passion and purpose this is what it's all about Lisa turkhurst thank you so much Louie wow how helpful was that episode I want to thank Lisa for the generosity of her wisdom and for sharing that with all of us on this episode today and I want to encourage you to make sure that you get a copy of her newest book good boundaries and goodbyes it's available everywhere right now I hope this episode has encouraged you today and it's whatever you're walking through this week and I hope you enjoyed it enough to subscribe so that you won't miss the next one and if you think it'll be helpful to send a link to a friend foreign

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Id: C_xXU3G4pNY

Length: 48min 9sec (2889 seconds)

Published: Tue Aug 15 2023