Good Boundaries and Goodbyes with Lysa TerKeurst

[Music] Lisa turkhurst is an author podcast host founder and leader of proverbs 31 Ministries cancer survivor and mother to five and grandmother to three by the way I didn't know you were a grandmother to three congratulations that's so fun I know it's the most fun thing if if I would have had my grandkids first I probably would have had a lot more because they are so amazing they can do me wrong you know that's what everybody says I like I cannot wait for that grandparent reward in that grandparent energy that's so I love that you have that yeah and then if they start to be naughty you can send them back oh which is also a real treat I I have three sons and we are not in that stage right now so I can't wait one day one day I'll be living the dream like you Felisa thanks so much for being here with us today we're here to talk about your latest book good boundaries and goodbyes loving others without losing the best of who you are which comes out November 8th um I know you've been on the show with us before episode 38 and 168 so we'll be sure to put those in the notes but obviously some things have changed for you over the past several years that led to you writing this book so if you don't mind can you sort of reintroduce yourself tell us where you are now and how you started writing about boundaries after the last few years you've been through absolutely well I think for the people who have read some of our previous books or even follow along with me through social media or some of my other Ministry um Avenues you would already know the past eight years of my life have been the hardest that I have ever walked through um it's been a devastating season that I didn't see coming and I never expected to have to face so there were many ups and downs there were times where there was great hope there was times of reconciliation and then there was times of more Devastation and it it was just a cycle of hurt and hope and more hurt and then trying to Hope again and in the end I experienced the death of my marriage and that's what I really call it the death of my marriage not just divorce because it was the deepest grief I have ever known wow and um and so I needed to really not only take a look at what had happened but I needed to take a look at myself and I needed to be honest enough with what did I contribute in this situation and that was really hard because the choices that led to the the marriage being unbiblical and unsustainable they weren't my choices yeah but still I had to be brave enough to sit in the Silence of what is now and recognize I want to take enough time to be whole and healed and healthy and to do that I have to look at what you know what I could work on now being a single person wow and one of the things that really emerged quickly is that I had struggled with codependency and which is at first was so hard for me to say because I tell you that I'm a strong independent yeah right right but my counselor made me feel better he said Lisa if anybody has a belly button they have a little bit of codependency so whoa okay okay this is all right for me to be struggling with this yeah he helped me see that a good definition of codependency is is when you catch yourself in a cycle of I need you to be okay so I can be okay so are you okay because if you're not okay then I'm not okay so can you please be okay okay you know wow and so when I when I heard him do that I found myself there and you know sometimes when people have lived in close proximity with another person struggling with addictions um it's pretty common to get caught in that yeah and so I recognized that part of the reason that I was so long-suffering in my marriage part of the reason that I stayed and pursued reconciliation so much there was some high and holy and Noble pursuit in that sure but there was also some unhealthy dysfunction in that as well and I needed to tend to that with my own choices and my own Tendencies wow so um yeah I I realize I need to work on boundaries because I actually stink at boundaries so um I write for my point of struggle and this was the next struggle that I really wanted to tackle I hearing you say that I mean I'm thinking of like on my own Journey but friend after friend after friend conversation after conversation after conversation I've had and I would say this is not just a female issue but I'm thinking of the women I've talked to who feel like um I don't know if I can set healthy boundaries I don't know if I can say no I don't know if I can take up space I don't know if I can have my own agency because that's quote unquote unbiblical right you're supposed to lay down your life you're supposed to and so I think we've gotten this so This sort of biblical sacrificial humility really mixed up with what you're talking about codependency how did I mean how did you even begin to go no this is what health looks like and God actually affirms this versus you know I guess untangle that untangle that for all the women Lisa yes well I think what you're really saying is we have a lack of biblical confidence around boundaries so yes first thing I'll say is we must not confuse the good command to love with the bad realities of enabling Behavior we should never tolerate wow and love should be what draws us together not what tears us apart and God's definition of Love is pretty clear about that that we need to be seeking each other's highest good wow so when we look at biblical confidence around boundaries I started in Genesis 1 and I was shocked to discover God created the foundations of this entire world using boundaries amen he said here's the light and where the light ends now the darkness begins so it's separated Darkness from light he separated the sky from the sea he separated the sea from the land he told the sea you know the waters you can only go this far and not no further because now this is so those healthy separations are boundaries wow and separating this from another and so when I got into Genesis 2 and I realized the first recorded conversation between God and man was around the topic of a boundary wow all the subjects that God could have chosen for this first recorded conversation between God and man and he chose to establish a boundary wow I think that's fascinating yeah and how God did it was he didn't do it for the sake of overly restricting and constricting this relationship no God established the boundary by saying you are free to eat from any tree in the garden so he did in the context of freedom because when we know where the boundary lines are we can have true Freedom then and we're not having to always second guess is this okay is this okay we clearly established this is what it's acceptable and this is what is not acceptable yeah this is what I will tolerate and this is what I will not tolerate and then after God says you are free to eat from any tree in the garden now here comes the boundary but you must not eat from the tree that is in the middle of the garden the tree of the knowledge of good and evil or else you will die so God wasn't being overly restrictive he was doing it so that he could be protective wow over Adam and and protect that relationship from sin tainting it and so I think that boundaries are not just a good idea they're actually God's idea wow and isn't it fascinating that where in the garden we have one boundary that God establishes as Sin starts to enter the picture and where there's sin there's chaos and where there's chaos there's a lack of a boundary and a need for another boundary by the time we get to the law and the prophets in the bible there's over 600 balances right that have been established right right because there was additional sin there was additional chaos therefore there was a need for additional boundaries so we see it all throughout the Bible but boundaries are not just a good idea they're God's idea and even Jesus demonstrated the practice of setting healthy boundaries wow wow that's such a great way to reframe boundaries I think Empower us to understand like this is a Biblical thing we're not you're not saying something that's not that's anti-god this was God's idea and therefore it's it's healthy and life-giving and and out of love and freedom I love that it's like placed in our identity in who we are God's so good Lisa that's right and by the time we get to the establishment of the temple that of course the mobile version of that was the tabernacle but by the time we get to the Tabernacle in the temple God did something that I think is completely fascinating and this is the lesson I learned the most biblical confidence around boundaries from when God established the temple he allowed certain people access to certain parts of the temple but not all people all access to every part of the time right it wasn't because this group of people was more valuable than this group of people it's because this group of people were required a higher level of responsibility wow so the moral responsibility that was required of you the more access you were granted and by the time we get to the holy of holies inside the temple there was only one person the high priest who once a year could enter the holy of holies yeah and it was to make atonement for the people but he also had to be he had to demonstrate the highest level of responsibility for that high level of access he had to be perfectly cleansed and purified or else he would drop dead in my presence of Holiness right and so those two words access and responsibility were very crucial for me to pay attention to and here's where I think we can have a more logical consideration of boundaries rather than making it so attached to all the emotion that can happen around boundaries and this is what I want you to remember and take away to the level that we give someone access to us and that could be financially physically sexually um relationally emotionally to the level that we permit someone access to us they must bring that same level of responsibility so they can demonstrate that they are responsible with the access that we've granted them if we Grant someone level 10 access but they are only willing or capable of level three responsibility we can have a conversation and ask them to bring more responsibility wow but if they are unwilling or incapable of anything above a level three responsibility the mistake that I've made is I've tried to put a boundary on them to control them or to force them to change but we all know using external pressure to force someone to change may result in temporary behavior modification but not lasting right result right so if they're only willing or capable of demonstrating level three responsibility and they are not willing to change yeah then we must not put a boundary on them we must put a boundary in that situation on ourselves by reducing the access that we grant them wow down to the demonstrated level of responsibility that they're bringing wow the nothing is wasted Content Library of resources and podcast episodes are made possible by our growing community of members if you would like to be a part of having a global impact and help people partner with God to take back their stories consider joining Community Plus for just 20 a month your membership comes with access to a course called position for Redemption master classes taught by our certified coaches bonus podcast episodes and Q and A's with myself and some of our other special guests you can get more information and sign up at nothing is wasted.com community I look forward to connecting with you further within our community plus platform whoo this is so this is such powerful stuff Lisa I can tell you've worked really hard out but I I mean this is like mind-blowing because I even think just just to say I have enough agency and enough uh dignity to say wait no there is a level 10 access to me and not everybody gets that and that's I that's because God has like called me his daughter and I'm worthy I think even getting there is so so powerful oh thank you for sharing and it's not just our right to have a voice and to be able to communicate this it's our responsibility because we are not called to control other people but we are called to remain self-controlled so good and boundaries are a way for us to remain self-controlled sane and safe wow so good Lisa um you know I I know you said a lot of this is born out of like the most pain you have ever walked through and I'm thinking of all of our listeners are people who are walking through deep deep pain and suffering sorrow loss tragedy um how has this beginning to understand boundaries where you weren't setting them how has this begin begun to to bring healing and wholeness you know back to your soul well I think I finally realized that it is not just good but it is necessary for us to communicate inside of our relationships what we do have to give and what we don't have to give what is acceptable what's not acceptable what we will tolerate and what we will not tolerate and of course always allowing the Holy Spirit to speak to us about that so that we're growing and maturing and all of that but I think for so long I got caught in this situation of thinking I can't take any more of this but I'm powerless to change it so I felt so stuck just so absolutely crippled in the harsh dynamics of a relationship that you know it was it was it had not just become difficult it become destructive and wow I always died several times in this whole process and um you know the body is is going to tell the story of the emotional trauma that we've experienced because trauma is not just something that comes at you it's something that happens in you yeah and I um I think understanding that boundaries are a good way to fight for the relationship so we don't have to spend so much time fighting against the unhealthy patterns the dysfunctions in a relationship and I think that's just been crucial and really if you think about it boundaries are a way to communicate how this relationship can be healthy and I'm careful not to say expectations right because expectations have this sense of simmering resentments like you better do this or else right right instead I've learned it's good to bring this is what I need and this is what I desire and using boundaries not let those desires turn into demands but rather giving the other person the freedom to say okay here's a need that I have and here's a need you have and let's talk about this and draw some boundaries so that we can be respectful to seek each other's highest good love that oh it's so beautiful um you just said something I thought was so profound that at some point you realized your relationship was no longer difficult but destructive I might have misquoted that with something like that for our listeners who may be asking themselves that question like am I in has this moved Beyond something that's simply difficult but this is this is destructive this is dangerous how how do you begin to know what are what are some of the signs well I wish I had a formula that we could plug in you know it'd be nice wouldn't it relationships are so nuanced there's so many factors that I just didn't think it was appropriate just to give someone a b and c if these are present then it's destructive yeah I'm not going to tell you what to think in this book but I will tell you I will give you a lot to think about and so there are lists of self-reflection considerations what I think we need to pay attention to yeah one of those is where am I minimizing the best of who I am to cover up for the worst of who someone else is where am I refusing to acknowledge how harsh things really are behind closed doors where am I allowing unbiblical behaviors to continue because I am so afraid of what that person that other person might do if I try to draw a healthy boundary wow an unhealthy person has never met a boundary that they like yeah people respect healthy boundaries yeah that's good and so I think it's important for us to go through and and in my book good boundaries and goodbyes I have lists of these things to consider okay and I think it's important to consider those things for ourselves but also recognize that we we shouldn't go at this alone we need to have other people with wise counsel speaking into our life but here's the absolute necessity we have to commit to telling the full story of what's really popping happening to those few trusted advisors maybe that's your counselor maybe that's a really wise Mentor maybe that's a very trusted and wise friend um maybe it's even you know like your women's ministry leader at church or your Bible study leader but it is crucial that they want to know the full truth and that you're willing to give the full truth and that they have enough training to recognize and to help you recognize where the behaviors have gotten unsafe unsustainable yeah or where there's an absolute lack of trust trust is the oxygen of all human relationships where there's no trust the relationship will not survive yeah wow um I know some of this you probably do cover in the book again the title is good boundaries and goodbyes loving others without losing the best of Who You Are um you know for somebody listening who's like Lisa okay I I want to set some boundaries I need to set some boundaries how do I start like how do I even recognize what's a good boundary and I have and then you have to say it right like you have to have a conversation you have to set the boundary not just assume the other person knows what's what are some practical tips that you would offer if you could okay so this doesn't always have to be hard and horrific now some boundary conversations are going to be really challenging and again in my book good boundaries and goodbyes I spent a lot of time giving people scripts because sometimes communicating a boundary is the hardest step yeah and so I I really took the time to think through some healthy ways to have healthy boundary conversations but here's a couple of simple scripts one is consider your capacity and consider that you you cannot afford to go bankrupt in any capacity of your life for example we already know that we should not give full access to everyone to our bank account why because we have limited resources right and because it's not because we're unkind or uncruel it's because we're limited and we need to be responsible and be a faithful Steward of what's been entrusted to us we need to be able to pay our bills and all of that and if we have unlimited access to people who we don't know are going to be responsible with that access then we run the risk of becoming bankrupt we know this with our finances right forget it with so many other areas of our life so true and a logical way to think of it is what is my capacity what is my capacity I'm not unlimited I am Limited it in my capacity so let's say someone asks you to please um head up the the volunteer committee at your child's School this year that's a wonderful thing to do yeah and that is a perfect assignment to someone who has the capacity to do that and when you look at your capacity though it's not realistic so if someone asks you to do that and it's not realistic then you can simply say dear Sally or whoever this person is dear Sally in an email dear Sally I so appreciate having the opportunity to serve at my child's School and this opportunity when I first heard of it my heart went yes yes yes but the reality of my time makes this a no I cannot give that now here's what I can give and I do have the capacity for thank you for understanding and so you see that's not a terrible awful thing no that's that's even kind I mean that's even like polite and sweet yes and and at the same time it's establishing that you will be respectful of your own limits yeah I love that and that's not just for you but it's for the sake of the best of who you are not becoming so frazzled and fractured and freaking out because you've overextended yourself that that now people are getting the worst version of you because you're just running on fuel right so that's why I chose the subtitle of good boundaries and goodbyes loving others well without losing the best of who you are we want to keep the best of who we are front and centered so we have to acknowledge our capacity and draw boundaries around what we can and cannot give what we will and will not tolerate that's so good I have I have a million more questions for you I want to honor your time though Lisa I I'm even just thinking of you know how do women begin to know even men how do we all begin to know what is the best version of ourselves how do we know what boundaries I'm sure you unpack a lot of this in your book so I'm so excited to read it but but let me ask you one more boundaries question if you don't mind um you know I think sometimes the unhealthy version of people of boundaries is that people will use them when they're not necessary like they don't want to dive into something that's hard or scary and so they'll just say I'm just going to set a boundary there how do you discern before the Lord for your community in this relationship when is boundary time and when it's actually time to kind of lean in and do the difficult thing such a good question and I really think that individually we have to ask the Lord to always give us the discernment and so but here's something really important am I using this boundary to skirt some kind of responsibility that really is my responsibility because if I'm using this boundary and skirting a responsibility or even just con discuring consideration for my fellow people then that's not appropriate you know like for example at the holidays if if someone says I'm setting a boundary I'm not helping do any of the dishes this year because after I eat I'm just too exhausted yeah well that's extremely inconsiderate and actually it's you demonstrating a lack of responsibility and so that's not an appropriate boundary yeah an appropriate boundary would be something more along the lines of hey why don't we put everybody's name in a hat and then list out things that need to be accomplished today and allow everyone to either draw out their name and attach it to a responsibility or have them sign up to be responsible so that the workload is demonstrated or um yeah giving up across the board in a fair way and maybe the reason that that person was saying I will not help with dishes is because maybe last year they got stuck doing everything yeah and other people weren't pulling their love right yeah and so a better boundary thing is hey this year everybody is going to have an opportunity to help so that everybody can have the full enjoyment and the full responsibility of all the enjoyment that we're gonna have and so a boundary would be giving each people a responsibility and um and and let it give you an opportunity to meet that responsibility so that all the weight doesn't fall on that one person so I love that what a healthy way to what a healthy practical way to think about boundaries Lisa you are one of our favorite people we love that you just you know you're so vulnerable and so real from your pain and that's where our audience is and so it means so much just you'd spend some time with us today where can our listeners connect with you where can they buy the book pretty order the book and connect with all things proverbs 31 and Lisa turkurst absolutely well the book is available anywhere books are sold if you order it through proverbs 31 Ministries you will actually get some bonus material and a limited number of copies that we did that just it's just for a special version for people who order from Proverbs 31. cool so you can find that at proverbs31.org or again you can buy the regular version of the book anywhere books are sold you can connect with me on social media at Lisa turkhurst and I'd love to meet you there thanks so much Lisa thanks for being here with us today oh it was such a joy I absolutely treasured our time so thank you hey friend if you liked this episode be sure to like And subscribe so that you can stay in the loop every time nothing is wasted releases a piece of content here on this YouTube channel

Channel: Nothing is Wasted Ministries

Views: 101,374

Keywords: Nothing is Wasted, Davey Blackburn, Grief

Id: i9FG2vggo4Y

Length: 28min 22sec (1702 seconds)

Published: Thu Mar 02 2023