What Would Alien Intelligences Mean? | Episode 904 | Closer To Truth

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> WHEN I WAS A CHILD, AT NIGHT, I WAS SCARED. 8, 9 YEARS OLD -- WHEN THE LIGHTS WENT OUT, I FEARED I'D BE TAKEN BY ALIENS. YEARS LATER, I'D ALMOST WISH THEY'D COME GET ME. INTELLIGENT ALIENS EXIST IN SCIENCE FICTION -- BOOKS, FILMS, RIGHT HERE ON PLANET EARTH. BUT, DO INTELLIGENT ALIENS EXIST ELSEWHERE, IN REALITY? WHO KNOWS? BUT, HERE'S WHAT I DO KNOW. THE POTENTIAL EXISTENCE OF INTELLIGENT ALIENS PROBES MEANING AND PURPOSE IN THE UNIVERSE. HOW SO? WHAT WOULD INTELLIGENT ALIENS MEAN? I'M ROBERT LAWRENCE KUHN, AND CLOSER TO TRUTH IS MY JOURNEY TO FIND OUT. FORGET INTELLIGENT ALIENS ON THE CRACKPOT FRINGE -- UFO'S, ABDUCTIONS AND SIMILAR SILLINESS. RECENTLY, WITH DISCOVERIES OF NUMEROUS EXTRA-SOLAR PLANETS, SCIENTISTS ARE TAKING LIFE BEYOND EARTH SERIOUSLY. ALTHOUGH INTELLIGENT ALIEN LIFE IS A LONGER LEAP, I NOW MUST ASK THE QUESTION: WHAT WOULD SENTIENT LIFE ON OTHER PLANETS REVEAL ABOUT LIFE AND PURPOSE IN THE UNIVERSE, IF ANYTHING? THAT'S WHY I BEGIN IN CAMBRIDGE, ENGLAND, WITH THE UK ASTRONOMER ROYAL, SIR. MARTIN REESE. MARTIN STUDIES THE FORMATION OF GALAXIES AND STARS. IF INTELLIGENT ALIENS EXIST, THAT'S WHERE THEY'D LIVE. BUT WHAT WOULD THEY MEAN? THE PRESENCE OR ABSENCE OF ALIEN LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE REALLY IS A PROFOUND FUNDAMENTAL QUESTION, AND HAS DEEP IMPLICATIONS. HOW DO YOU SEE THAT SEARCH, AND THE MEANING? >> WELL, I SHARE YOUR VIEW. IT'S ONE OF THE MOST FUNDAMENTAL AND FASCINATING QUESTIONS FOR ALL OF US. AS TO THE LIKELIHOOD, I THINK WE HAVE TO SAY WE'RE TOO IGNORANT TO SAY WHETHER IT'S LIKELY OR UNLIKELY. SOME THINGS WE CAN SAY. FIRST, ASTRONOMERS CAN NOW SAY WITH CONFIDENCE THAT THERE ARE MANY PLANETS ORBITING MANY OTHER STARS. THERE ARE PROBABLY ZILLIONS OF OTHER PLANETS, RATHER LIKE THE EARTH, ORBITING STARS. BUT, WHETHER THEY WILL HAVE EVOLVED A BIOSPHERE, WE DON'T KNOW. THERE ARE TWO STEPS IN THAT PROCESS. FIRST IS THE ORIGIN OF LIFE, AND WE DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW THAT HAPPENED HERE ON EARTH. I THINK, THERE'S A REASONABLE HOPE, WE'LL COME TO UNDERSTAND THE ORIGIN OF LIFE ON EARTH BETTER, AND OF COURSE, THAT WILL THEN GIVE US A CLUE AS TO WHETHER LIFE WAS AN AMAZINGLY RARE FLUKE OR WHETHER IT COULD BE STARTED IN ANY OTHER ENVIRONMENT LIKE THE YOUNG EARTH. BUT, EVEN IF YOU GOT SIMPLE LIFE, THEN, THE QUESTION IS HOW LIKELY IS IT THAT IT EVOLVES INTO THE STAGE WHEN SOME CREATURES ACHIEVE A LEVEL OF INTELLIGENCE. THAT'S A SECOND QUESTION. IT'S QUITE POSSIBLE THAT SIMPLE LIFE IS COMMON, BUT INTELLIGENT LIFE IS RARE. EFFORTS HAVE BEEN MADE TO SEARCH FOR ALL KINDS OF SIGNALS. WE HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE ALIENS ARE LIKE, SO WE JUST HAVE TO USE ALL THE TECHNIQUES WE CAN. BUT THE KIND OF THING PEOPLE ARE DOING IS POINTING TELESCOPES TOWARDS NEARBY STARS, AND SEEING IF THERE'S ANY EVIDENCE FOR SOME SORT OF SIGNAL THAT COULDN'T BE NATURAL. ONE SHOULDN'T HOLD ONE'S BREATH FOR SUCCESS, BECAUSE NOTHING'S BEEN SEEN SO FAR. AND, EVEN IF WE DID SUCCEED, WHAT WOULD IT TELL US? IT WOULD TELL US SOMETHING FUNDAMENTALLY IMPORTANT. IT WOULD TELL US THAT CONCEPTS OF LOGIC AND PHYSICS WEREN'T UNIQUE TO THE HARDWARE IN HUMAN SKULLS, BUT EVOLVED ELSEWHERE. IT WOULDN'T TELL US VERY MUCH ABOUT WHAT THE ALIENS WERE. THEY MAY HAVE EVOLVED QUITE DIFFERENTLY. IN FACT, THE SIGNALS COULD BE COMING FROM SOME KIND OF ARTIFACTS MADE BY SOME INTELLIGENT LIFE THAT HAD DIED OUT LONG BEFORE, FOR ALL WE KNOW. AND ALSO, THEY WOULDN'T BE CONSCIOUS, EVEN IF INTELLIGENT, NECESSARILY. THAT'S A SEPARATE PHILOSOPHICAL QUESTION. AND, OF COURSE, WHETHER WE COULD ACHIEVE ANY USEFUL CONTACT WITH THEM IS A SEPARATE QUESTION. BUT, IT WOULD BE IMPORTANT IF WE WERE TO DISCOVER ANY EVIDENCE OF ALIEN INTELLIGENCE. WERE WE TO DO SO, IT WOULD MAKE US FEEL LESS ALONE IN THE COSMOS. ALTHOUGH -- THAT'S THE UPSIDE. IT COULD HAVE A DOWNSIDE, AND IT WOULD MAKE US MORE -- > COMMON. >> -- COSMICALLY MODEST, IN A WAY, YES, WHEREAS, ON THE OTHER HAND, IF THESE SEARCHES FOR INTELLIGENT ALIENS FAIL, IT'S DISAPPOINTING, BUT WE CAN RAISE OUR COSMIC SELF-ESTEEM, BECAUSE, SMALL THOUGH THE EARTH IS, WE COULD THEN PROPERLY CONJECTURE THAT OUR EARTH MAY BE A VERY SPECIAL PLACE, EVEN IN THE ENTIRE GALAXY. IT COULD BE THE ONLY PLACE WHERE LIFE HAS EVOLVED TO THE STAGE OF INTELLIGENCE. AND THEN, BEARING IN MIND THAT THE FUTURE LYING AHEAD IS BILLIONS OF YEARS, WE COULD IMAGINE THAT OUR EARTH, TINY THOUGH IT IS, COULD BE THE SEED FROM WHICH THE ENTIRE GALAXY IS GREENED, AS IT WERE. AND SO, IF ALIEN LIFE IS NOT PRESENT AT THE MOMENT, THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT LIFE IS FOREVER A TRIVIAL ARTIFACT IN THE COSMOS. IT COULD MEAN THAT LIFE IS DESTINED TO SPREAD, BUT HERE, FROM EARTH. > IT IS HUMANITY'S GRAND SEARCH OF THE COSMOS, TO DISCOVER WHETHER WE ARE ALONE OR NOT ALONE. BUT, WHAT IS ALONE? ANYTHING REMOTELY ALIVE WOULD BE ELECTRIFYING, BUT I'D WANT MORE. FOR ME, INTELLIGENCE, SELF CONSCIOUSNESS AND KNOWLEDGE-SEEKING ARE WHAT ULTIMATELY COUNT. AND EITHER ANSWER BURSTS WITH MEANING. IF THEY EXIST, WHAT CAN WE LEARN FROM THEM? IF THEY DO NOT EXIST, WHY ARE WE ALONE? ARE WE DESTINED TO COLONIZE THE COSMOS? BUT, AS WE SEARCH FOR ALIENS, WHAT'S OUR MOTIVATION? I GO TO NORTHERN CALIFORNIA, TO MEET THE PIONEER OF THE SEARCH FOR EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL INTELLIGENCES -- SETI -- FRANK DRAKE. FRANK IS A RADIO ASTRONOMER, WHOSE FAMOUS DRAKE EQUATION ESTIMATES THE NUMBER OF ALIEN CIVILIZATIONS IN OUR GALAXY. FRANK, WHAT I WANT TO UNDERSTAND IS THE DIFFERENT MOTIVATIONS THAT WE HAVE, AS A SPECIES, WHY WHAT YOU DO IS IMPORTANT FOR ALL OF US. >> WITH MOST PEOPLE, THE MAIN MOTIVATION IS THAT IT WOULD BE A GREAT ADVENTURE TO MEET AN EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL. TO SCIENTISTS, IT'S A SOMEWHAT DIFFERENT MOTIVATION -- ALTHOUGH THEY'RE EXCITED ABOUT THE ADVENTURE, TOO -- AND THAT IS, THEY WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE EXTENT OF LIFE IS IN THE UNIVERSE. HOW MANY FORMS OF IT EXIST? ARE THERE OTHER MOLECULAR BASES FOR LIFE? HOW FAR CAN EVOLUTION GO, TO PRODUCE CREATURES BEYOND OUR IMAGINATION? WHAT IS THE RANGE OF LIFE? IN WHAT CONDITIONS CAN IT EXIST? WHAT ARE THE CONSEQUENCES OF ALL THIS? THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT DRIVE THE SCIENTIST. WE RECOGNIZE THAT, AS AN INTELLIGENT SPECIES, WE'RE VERY YOUNG. WE'VE JUST APPEARED IN AN INSTANT IN COSMIC TIME, YET WE KNOW THERE ARE PLANETARY SYSTEMS OUT THERE, BILLIONS OF YEARS OLDER THAN OURS, WHICH COULD HAVE CREATURES WHICH ARE BILLIONS OF YEARS AHEAD OF US IN EVOLUTION. AND, WHAT DO THEY KNOW? WE WOULD LIKE TO KNOW. WE ARE THE NEWCOMERS ON THE BLOCK. > WHAT ABOUT THE -- THE PHILOSOPHICAL ASPECTS, OR, INDEED, THE RELIGIOUS ASPECTS? >> THESE OTHER CREATURES HAVE DEALT WITH THESE SAME QUESTIONS WE DEAL WITH, FOR, LITERALLY, MILLIONS OF YEARS, RATHER THAN TENS OF THOUSANDS, AS WE HAVE. AND, WE WANT TO KNOW, WHAT HAVE THEY ARRIVED AT, IN THE WAY OF PHILOSOPHIES OF LIFE, WITH REGARD TO RELIGION, WITH REGARD TO THE ORIGIN OF THE UNIVERSE, WHICH IS PROBABLY NOT ANSWERABLE BY SCIENTIFIC METHODS. WE WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHERE THAT MIGHT GO. NOW, THE OTHER THING WHICH MOTIVATES MANY PEOPLE IS THE IDEA THAT WE WILL LEARN FROM THE EXTRA-TERRESTRIALS HOW TO BUILD A BETTER FUTURE FOR OURSELVES -- WHAT THINGS ARE DANGEROUS TO US. ARE ASTEROID IMPACTS SOMETHING THAT WE REALLY SHOULD WORRY ABOUT? WHAT ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING AND ATMOSPHERIC POLLUTION? WHAT HAS BEEN DONE ABOUT THAT IN OTHER PLACES? DO WE COLONIZE SPACE? BECAUSE -- EVENTUALLY, WE WILL HAVE TO COLONIZE SPACE, BECAUSE THE SUN IS GOING TO GET LARGER AND LARGER AND SWALLOW UP THE EARTH. WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO MOVE OUTWARDS. BUT, DO WE DO THAT SOONER? IF WE FIND ONE OTHER CIVILIZATION, IT'LL MEAN THERE ARE MANY, MANY, AND THE SEARCH WON'T BE OVER, IT WILL JUST BE BEGINNING. CARL SAGAN SAID IT VERY WELL. HE SAID, WHETHER THEY ARE OUT THERE OR THEY ARE NOT, THE ANSWER IS OF THE PROFOUNDEST IMPORTANCE. IF THEY'RE THERE, THERE'S JUST A GREAT WEALTH OF KNOWLEDGE TO BE OBTAINED FROM THEM. IF THEY'RE NOT THERE, IT TELLS US -- WE'VE MISSED SOMETHING, AND WE ARE VERY SPECIAL, AND WE HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL TO PROTECT AND PRESERVE OUR PLANET. > TO FRANK, MEETING ALIENS WOULD BE HUMANKIND'S GREAT ADVENTURE. WE WILL LEARN NEW PHILOSOPHY, NEW THEOLOGY, NEW CONCEPTS OF THE COSMOS. FRANK IS A VISIONARY, BUT, MIGHT HE ALSO BE BIASED, OVERLY OPTIMISTIC? SUPPOSE INTELLIGENT, SELF-CONSCIOUS, KNOWLEDGE-SEEKING ALIENS DO NOT EXIST. THIS WOULD ALSO CONVEY MEANING, THOUGH OF A RADICALLY DIFFERENT KIND. MUCH OF THE MEANING OF THE UNIVERSE, IF THERE BE ANY, TURNS ON THE EXISTENCE OR NON-EXISTENCE OF INTELLIGENT ALIENS. BUT, IF THEY EXIST, WHERE ARE THEY? I CHECK WITH A PHYSICIST WHO FOCUSES ON ORIGINS, LAWRENCE KRAUSS. >> WHETHER WE'RE ALONE IN THE UNIVERSE, IN SOME SENSE, DEFINES THE UNIVERSE, FOR US, AND, AS CARL SAGAN SAID, IF WE'RE ALONE, IT'S AN AWFUL WASTE OF SPACE. BUT, AT SOME POINT, THE QUESTION COMES DOWN TO AN INTERESTING QUESTION OF, HOW RARE IS INTELLIGENCE? I MEAN, IT COULD BE, AND I HAPPEN TO BELIEVE THIS, SINCE ALL THE CONDITIONS FOR LIFE EXIST ELSEWHERE IN THE GALAXY -- WATER, ORGANIC MATERIALS, LIGHT, ALL OF THAT -- THAT LIFE IS UBIQUITOUS. BUT, THE KEY QUESTION IS -- IS INTELLIGENCE AN EVOLUTIONARY IMPERATIVE? DO ALL ROUTES OF EVOLUTION LEAD TO INTELLIGENCE? AND, ON EARTH THEY DID -- WELL, AT LEAST ONE ROUTE DID, AND, WHERE IT GOES FROM HERE, WE WON'T KNOW. BUT, THAT HAPPENED BY A SERIES OF EVOLUTIONARY ACCIDENTS. > ISN'T THAT A CONTRADICTION? EITHER EVOLUTION, THROUGH ITS IMPERATIVE, CAUSES INTELLIGENT LIFE, OR IT'S AN ACCIDENT. IT CAN'T BE BOTH. IF IT'S AN IMPERATIVE - >> WELL, I MEAN - > THAT SOUNDS LIKE THEISTIC EVOLUTION. >> WELL, BY IMPERATIVE, I MEAN THAT ALL ROADS LEAD THERE, REGARDLESS OF HOW RANDOM THEY ARE. > WOW. THAT'S A POWERFUL COMMENT. >> I DON'T KNOW. I MEAN, I THINK, ALL STREAMS WILL GO DOWNHILL, BUT I DON'T THINK THEY'RE BEING GUIDED, OTHER THAN BY THE FORCE OF GRAVITY. AND SO, THERE -- ARE THERE PHYSICAL LAWS THAT INEVITABLY CAUSE INTELLIGENCE TO BE SELECTED, NATURALLY, IN A WAY THAT ALLOWS -- INEVITABLY, IF YOU HAVE LOTS OF DIFFERENT LIFE FORMS, THE INTELLIGENT LIFE FORM WILL EVENTUALLY COME AND DOMINATE THE PLANET, RUIN THE ATMOSPHERE, BUILD HUGE CITIES, ET CETERA. > I KNOW A WHOLE BUNCH OF THEOLOGIANS WHO COULD NOT HAVE SAID THAT BETTER. >> WELL, THAT DOESN'T SAY MUCH. BUT, I'M WILLING TO BELIEVE THAT, EVEN IF IT'S REALLY RARE, THERE'S STILL A LOT OF INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE GALAXY. > WELL, WHAT THAT BRINGS UP IS FERMI'S PARADOX. IF YOU HAVE ALL THIS TIME -- BILLIONS OF YEARS -- IN UNIVERSAL HISTORY, AND YOU HAVE BILLIONS OF STARS IN OUR GALAXY, AND HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF GALAXIES, AND NOW, WE KNOW PLANETS AROUND, MAYBE, MANY STARS - >> MOST STARS, WE THINK. > - HAVE PLANETS. WHERE ARE THE ALIENS? >> WELL, WE LIVE IN A RANDOM CORNER IN THE FAR EDGE OF THE MILKY WAY GALAXY. FERMI'S PARADOX IS THAT, WELL, LOOK, IF LIFE EVOLVED, IT WOULD BASICALLY COLONIZE THE GALAXY, AND YOU COULD CALCULATE, IT WOULD SEND OUT ROBOTS, OR PARTS WITH CIVILIZATION, TO FOUR OTHER PLANETS, AND SAID THE FOUR OTHER PLANETS -- AND THEN IT WOULD GROW EXPONENTIALLY. IT'S NOT A BAD LOGIC, BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S INEVITABLE. IT'S JUST AS PLAUSIBLE TO ME THAT CIVILIZATIONS WILL EXIST WHERE THEY ARE UNTIL THEY EXHAUST ALL THE RESOURCES WHERE THEY ARE, AND THEN, THEY'LL MOVE ON. AND, EVEN IF THEY DECIDE TO SEND OUT LOTS OF FEELERS, IT'S QUITE PLAUSIBLE TO ME THAT MOST OF THOSE FEELERS WILL NOT SURVIVE, WHETHER THEY'RE ROBOTS OR LITTLE COLONIES. AND SO, THIS WHOLE ARGUMENT ONLY WORKS IF CIVILIZATIONS DECIDE THEY'RE GOING TO COLONIZE THE GALAXY. IT'S NOT SO CLEAR TO ME THAT IT'S INEVITABLE THAT YOU HAVE TO COLONIZE THE GALAXY. AS I SAY, MOST OF YOUR - >> BUT, YOU DON'T NEED MOST -- IF YOU CAN MAKE THE CALCULATIONS ON ONE, OR JUST A HANDFUL OF CIVILIZATIONS THAT HAVE A SIMILARITY TO US THAT DO WANT TO COLONIZE, OR HAVE A NEED TO COLONIZE, AND, THIS EXPANDS IT EXPONENTIALLY, AND THEN, IF YOU HAVE THE WHOLE UNIVERSE - > BUT, YOU REQUIRE THE EXPONENTIAL EXPANSION. THAT'S THE KEY POINT. YOU REQUIRE THAT EACH CIVILIZATION SEND OUT A CERTAIN NUMBER OF COLONIES WHICH THEN SEND OUT A CERTAIN NUMBER OF COLONIES, WHICH SEND OUT A CERTAIN NUMBER OF COLONIES, AND THEY ALL ARE SENT OUT AT A RELATIVE, REGULAR PACE, AND MOST OF THEM SURVIVE. AND, WE JUST DON'T KNOW IF -- TRAVELING THROUGH SPACE IS VERY DIFFICULT AND DEADLY, AND IT'S A LONG TIME, AND LOTS OF THINGS CAN HAPPEN, AND WE ALSO DON'T KNOW -- WITH MY MIND -- IF YOU LOOK AROUND AT LIFE ON EARTH, IT'S NOT CLEAR TO ME THAT THERE'S THIS IMPERATIVE TO ALWAYS MOVE. AT THE SAME TIME, AS FERMI'S PARADOX IS CERTAINLY NOT ILLOGICAL, BUT NOT NECESSARY -- EVEN IF LIFE IS VERY RARE, IN AN ABSOLUTE SENSE, IT CAN NEVERTHELESS BE VERY ABUNDANT. IT MAY SOUND RIDICULOUS, BUT THAT'S POSSIBLE IN THE UNIVERSE. I MEAN, IT'S A LONG SHOT THAT, EVEN IF THERE'S LIFE OUT THERE, WE'LL EVER KNOW ABOUT IT. THAT'S THE SAD THING. BUT, I ALSO, AT THE SAME TIME, BELIEVE IT'S OUT THERE, AND THAT'S GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME. > LAWRENCE BELIEVES THAT LIFE IS WIDE SPREAD THROUGHOUT THE UNIVERSE, WITH A KIND OF SCIENTIFIC FAITH IN THE LAW OF LARGE NUMBERS. BUT, IS INTELLIGENCE ALSO WIDE SPREAD? IF YES, THEN, COULD INTELLIGENCE BE AN EVOLUTIONARY IMPERATIVE, SO THAT, EVEN THOUGH, EVOLUTION MEANDERS ALONG ROUTES OF RANDOM MUTATIONS, ALL ROUTES LEAD TO INTELLIGENCE? WHAT WOULD THAT MEAN ABOUT OUR UNIVERSE? WHAT IS IT ABOUT ALIENS THAT SO ENERGIZES THE HUMAN SPIRIT, THAT MAKES US YEARN TO KNOW WHETHER THEY EXIST, AND TO DISCERN MEANING IN THE ULTIMATE ANSWER? I GO TO THE UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA IRVINE, TO ASK AN ASTRO-PHYSICIST WHO IS ALSO A SCIENCE FICTION WRITER, GREGORY BENFORD. GREG, WHAT COULD YOU SAY ABOUT THE HUMAN SEARCH FOR ALIEN LIFE? >> IT'S NATURAL, BECAUSE WE ARE LONELY. WE DON'T HAVE ANYONE TO TALK TO. SOCIAL ANIMALS HAVE A NEED TO TALK AND TO LISTEN, AND YET, WE DON'T HAVE ANYBODY OF COMPARABLE INTELLIGENCE, EXCEPT OURSELVES. SO, I THINK, WE REACH OUT, IN SEARCH OF CONVERSATION. AND SO, WE ALSO WONDER IF THEY HAVE THE SAME ANXIETIES ABOUT BEING IN THIS UNIVERSE THAT WE DO. OR, MAYBE THEY EVEN HAVE A SOLUTION. I MEAN, WHAT'S THE SOLUTION TO THE MEANING OF DEATH, FOR EXAMPLE? WHY IS THE UNIVERSE HERE? ALL THESE GREAT QUESTIONS -- IT WOULD BE VERY INTERESTING TO HAVE A DIFFERENT POINT OF VIEW. > DOES IT GO DEEPER THAN THAT? BECAUSE, IF I IMAGINE MYSELF, I MEAN, I DON'T PARTICULARLY WANT TO HAVE A SOCIAL CONVERSATION. I DON'T PARTICULARLY NEED MORE FRIENDS. BUT, I REALLY WOULD BE INTERESTED IF THEY COULD ENLIGHTEN ME ON SOME OF THESE ULTIMATE QUESTIONS. IN THAT SENSE, IT'S ALMOST THEOLOGICAL IN ITS NATURE, AS OPPOSED TO SOCIOLOGICAL. >> YES, IT CAN VERGE ON THE THEOLOGICAL. I SUSPECT THAT WE REALLY WANT THE ALIENS, ALSO, AS A COUNTER TO US. I MEAN, THERE'S A REASON THAT WE HAVE -- SAY, IN THEOLOGY -- WE'VE INVENTED ALL KINDS OF THINGS, LIKE ANGELS AND DEVILS, AND IMAGINARY CREATURES -- THE PANTHEON OF ANCIENT GREECE. WHAT WAS THAT ABOUT? THAT WAS PERSONIFYING DISTANT INTELLIGENCE OF A DIFFERENT KIND, AND IT OBVIOUSLY REPRESENTS SOME HUNGER WE HAVE. I THINK THAT THE EMOTIONAL RESISTANCE THAT SOME PEOPLE HAVE TO THE WHOLE WORLD VIEW OF SCIENCE IS THAT, IN THE OLD DAYS -- ONLY A FEW THOUSAND YEARS AGO -- EVERYONE BELIEVED IN SPIRITS, AND ANIMATED WOODS AND VALLEYS, AND WEATHER, AND SO FORTH. AND, THE WHOLE WORLD WAS POPULATED WITH OTHER THINGS. BUT, SCIENCE BLOWS ALL THAT AWAY AND SAYS, NO, IT'S JUST EMPTY, IN THIS SENSE. AND, I THINK PEOPLE REACT EMOTIONALLY TO THAT LOSS, OF EMPTINESS. > AND SO, THE SEARCH FOR INTELLIGENT ALIEN LIFE IS ALMOST A SUBSTITUTE, OR A SURROGATE OF THEOLOGY, IF YOU WILL, BUT FULFILLING THE SAME INNATE NEED THAT WE HAVE. >> YES. AND, WE ALL FEEL THIS NEED -- YOU NOTICE THAT THE WHOLE SETI PROGRAM IS BEING CARRIED OUT BY SCIENTISTS, WHO BELIEVE IN THIS WORLD VIEW OF SCIENCE, THAT IT'S EMPTY OF ANIMATED SPIRITS. BUT, THEY GO LOOKING FOR INTELLIGENCE ELSEWHERE. THAT'S REMARKABLY LIKE RADIO ASTRONOMERS, AND THAT'S VERY REVEALING. > WELL, I THINK IT'S A NORMAL PSYCHOLOGY TO INVENT WHAT YOU DON'T KNOW AFTER WHAT YOU DO KNOW, WHICH IS YOURSELF. >> YES. > AND SO, WE ALL SEE THE WORLD IN OUR OWN IMAGE, AND MAYBE, IF THE ALIEN INTELLIGENT LIFE IS NOT IN OUR IMAGE, THE WAY WE LOOK, WE'RE NOT GOING TO FIND THEM? >> WELL, YOU KNOW, IN A WAY, IT'S LIKE WHAT WE REQUIRE OF ALL ENTERTAINMENT. PEOPLE -- THE AUDIENCE ESSENTIALLY SAYS, GIVE ME THE SAME THING AGAIN, ONLY DIFFERENT. > RIGHT. >> SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT. AND, THAT'S TRUE, I THINK, IN ALIENS, THAT -- THAT'S WHY SO MANY OF THE ALIENS LOOK CURIOUSLY LIKE US, WITH THE SAME DESIRES AND PRECONCEPTIONS AND SO FORTH. > BUT SUPPOSE, AGAIN, IT -- THAT WE HAVE NOTHING. THERE IS A DISMAY, BUT, WHAT FOLLOWS FROM THAT? >> WELL, LOOK AT IT THIS WAY. WE'RE THE BRIGHTEST KID ON THE BLOCK. THERE'S THAT CONSOLATION. WE'RE ALSO RATHER LONELY. AND SO, I THINK IT WILL ALSO INSPIRE SOME TO SAY, LOOK -- THERE'S A WHOLE GALAXY OUT THERE TO BE WON. LET'S GO DO IT. > SO, IT'S OUR BACK YARD, AND WE CAN GO FILL IT UP. >> AND, THERE'S NO PROPERTY RIGHTS ISSUE. > THE QUEST FOR MEANING CENTERS ON THE QUESTION OF EXISTENCE. AND WHILE, AS GREG SAYS, REAL ALIENS WILL LIKELY BE RADICALLY DIFFERENT FROM US, IT'S THEIR STARK PRESENCE OR ABSENCE THAT DRIVES MEANING, WHICH IS WHY I'M STILL BOTHERED BY ZERO EVIDENCE, WHICH IS WHY I, AGAIN, ASK, WHERE ARE THEY? I GOT TO SAN FRANCISCO, TO THE CHABOT SPACE AND SCIENCE CENTER, TO MEET ONE OF TECHNOLOGY'S MOST CREATIVE SPIRITS, JAREN LANIER. >> THE FERMI PARADOX IS HAUNTING, AND AS A BOY, I WOULD LOOK UP IN THE SKY AND WONDER ABOUT IT. THE INTENSE PIT OF LONELINESS, OF THINKING THAT WE'RE REALLY IT IN THIS ENORMOUS VASTNESS IS ALMOST UNBEARABLE. AND, YET, IT IS TRULY STRANGE THAT WE SEE NO EVIDENCE. AND, YOU WOULD THINK THAT YOU WOULD. I MEAN, WHEN EUROPEANS FIRST CAME UPON THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE, THEY FOUND EVIDENCE OF CIVILIZATIONS. THERE SHOULD BE SOMETHING UP THERE. SO, WHAT'S GOING ON? I BELIEVE WE POSSES HUGE STORES OF IGNORANCE THAT WE DON'T ACKNOWLEDGE, AND THEREFORE, I THINK IT'S CONCEIVABLE THAT THERE'S SOME LAYER OF PHYSICS THAT WE HAVEN'T COME UPON YET, SOMETHING THAT'S SO SPECTACULARLY MORE INTERESTING THAN ELECTROMAGNETIC RADIATION THAT CIVILIZATIONS THAT DISCOVER IT JUST DON'T BOTHER WITH SENDING OUT RADIO AND TV SIGNALS AND THE LIKE ANYMORE. AND, AS SOON AS WE DISCOVER THAT THING, WE'LL BUILD AN INSTRUMENT TO LOOK AT IT, AND THEN THE SKY WILL LIGHT UP WITH CONSTRUCTION. OKAY? THAT, TO ME, IS A CONCEIVABLE FUTURE, ALTHOUGH, OF COURSE, I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THAT PHENOMENON MIGHT BE LIKE -- NOT EVEN THE SLIGHTEST BEGINNING CLUE. BUT, IT'S AT LEAST A POSSIBILITY. IT'S ALSO POSSIBLE THAT WE'RE JUST PRECOCIOUS. IT MIGHT BE THAT IT JUST TAKES A WHILE FOR THINGS TO GET GOING, AND THAT THE GALAXIES WILL INDICATE LIFE, STAR SYSTEMS NEAR US WILL INDICATE LIFE, IF WE WAIT LONG ENOUGH, WHICH COULD BE QUITE A LONG TIME -- CONCEIVABLE. SO, THIS LEADS MY LUNATIC PROPOSAL FOR HOW TO OVERCOME THIS PROBLEM. SO, HERE'S WHAT WE DO. YOU KNOW HOW TO PREVENT AN ASTEROID FROM HITTING EARTH, IF IT'S DUE TO HIT THE EARTH. WHAT YOU DO IS YOU PUT A SPACESHIP IN FRONT OF IT, AND THE SPACESHIP FLIES AT A TRAJECTORY THAT JUST GRADUALLY PULLS ON THE ASTEROID OVER A LONG TIME -- WITH GRAVITY. > BECAUSE OF GRAVITY. EVEN THOUGH IT'S VERY SMALL COMPARED TO THE ASTEROID. >> TINY AMOUNT OF GRAVITY, BUT, OVER ENOUGH TIME, IT ACTUALLY CAN ADJUST THE TRAJECTORY. ALL RIGHT. NOW, WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO IS WE'RE GOING TO START SENDING UP SPACESHIPS UNTIL THEY CAN ASSEMBLE IN A FORMATION -- NOW, THIS MIGHT TAKE A LONG TIME -- 10,000 YEARS -- WHAT THE HELL -- NOW, WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO IS WE'RE GOING TO PLAY A GRAVITATIONAL HEDGE FUND GAME. WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A SMALL AMOUNT OF MASS AND LEVERAGE A LARGE AMOUNT OF MASS, AND THEN, WE'RE GOING TO RECYCLE THAT AND LEVERAGE A LARGER AMOUNT OF MASS, AND WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO IS GRADUALLY ROUND UP ENOUGH OF THE KUIPER BELT THAT, OVER A VERY LONG PERIOD OF TIME, AND NOW, WE'RE STARTING TO TALK ABOUT TRULY LONG PERIODS OF TIME, FAR BEYOND THE SCOPE OF THINKING ABOUT OUR CIVILIZATION -- FAR BEYOND IT -- WE'RE GOING TO START TO CHANGE THE SUN'S COURSE AROUND THE GALAXY. OKAY, NO, NO -- BUT WE'RE NOT DONE. WE'RE GOING TO GUIDE ALL THESE STARS, THAT ARE NEIGHBORS, VERY SLIGHTLY, SO THEY FALL INTO A BEAUTIFUL GEOMETRIC PATTERN, IN A SPECIAL ORBIT THAT THEY COULDN'T HAVE FALLEN INTO NATURALLY, THAT WILL LAST FOR HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF YEARS OR LONGER. NOW, IF WE CREATE THIS WEIRD THING, THAT ALL OF A SUDDEN SOLVES OUR APERTURE PROBLEM. THAT'S SOMETHING THAT CAN BE NOTICED FOR A LONG ENOUGH PERIOD OF TIME - > HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF YEARS, POTENTIALLY. >> POTENTIALLY, YOU KNOW? NOW, ONCE WE HAVE THE PROOF OF CONCEPT IN THEORY, WE CAN DO A SKY SURVEY AND SEE IF ANYBODY ELSE THOUGHT OF IT. AND THERE YOU ARE. SO -- NOW THAT'S MY PROPOSAL FOR, YOU KNOW, WHAT TO DO ABOUT THIS FERMI PARADOX. > I THINK THIS IS TERRIFIC BECAUSE WHAT IT ALLOWS US TO DO IS IMAGINE ALL THE WAYS THAT INTELLIGENT ALIENS COULD SIGNAL US. MAYBE WE'LL FIND SOMETHING, AND IF WE DON'T OVER LONG PERIODS OF TIME, THAT'S IT'S OWN STATEMENT OF SIGNIFICANCE AND IMPORTANCE. >> YEAH, WELL, IT'S VERY POSSIBLE THAT THE SCENARIO I DESCRIBE IS SIMPLY NOT ACHIEVABLE. IF IT IS IMPOSSIBLE, WELL, THEN WE'RE DONE. IF IT'S POSSIBLE, THEN WE DEFINITELY SHOULD DO A SKY SURVEY. > SO, WHAT WOULD INTELLIGENT, SELF-CONSCIOUS, KNOWLEDGE-SEEKING ALIENS MEAN -- THEIR EXISTENCE OR THEIR NON-EXISTENCE? IN A WAY, IT'S LIKE THEOLOGY. SEEKING TRANSCENDENT BEINGS IN OUR SEARCH FOR TRANSCENDENT MEANING. HERE'S WHAT MAKES NO SENSE. THE UNIVERSE IS SO VAST, EVEN IF INTELLIGENT LIFE IS EXTREMELY RARE, THERE SHOULD STILL BE BILLIONS OF CIVILIZATIONS, AND YET, NOT A HINT OF EVIDENCE. WHERE ARE THEY? MAKE UP ALL THE REASONS OR EXCUSES FOR THEIR ABSENCE. THERE NEED BE ONLY ONE ALIEN CIVILIZATION THAT EXPANDS, TO FILL THE GALAXY WITH EVIDENCE. HOW COULD WE BE THE ONLY INTELLIGENT LIFE? NO SENSE. TO ME, HERE'S WHAT INTELLIGENT ALIENS WOULD MEAN. IF WE ARE NOT ALONE, TO LEARN NEW WAYS OF THINKING AND KNOWING -- IF WE ARE ALONE, TO CARE FOR OUR EARTH, TO POPULATE OUR UNIVERSE, PERHAPS SOMETHING MORE. BOTH ARE BREATHTAKING, BUT ONLY ONE IS CLOSER TO TRUTH.

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Channel: Closer To Truth

Views: 76,654

Rating: 4.7745619 out of 5

Keywords: closer to truth, robert lawrence kuhn, Martin Rees, Frank Drake, Lawrence Krauss, Gregory Benford, Jaron Lanier, Alien, What Would Alien Intelligences Mean, Alien Intelligences, extraterrestrials, extraterrestrial, E.T., aliens, alien life, alien civilizations, life on other planets, exoplanets, are we alone, intelligent aliens, closer to truth full episodes, closer to truth season 9, space travel, seti institute, fermi paradox, drake equation, education, philosophy

Id: 6LDYLUSUNQw

Channel Id: undefined

Length: 26min 46sec (1606 seconds)

Published: Sun Aug 16 2020