>AS A TEENAGER, I WAS STARTLED BY A SUDDEN THOUGHT - EVERYTHING I KNOW, EVERYTHING, COMES FROM MY BRAIN. I HAD BEEN ENTRANCED BY THE BIG QUESTIONS - EXISTENCE OF GOD, PURPOSE OF THE UNIVERSE, MEANING OF LIFE. BUT THEN I REALIZED IT WAS ALL IN MY HEAD. I MIGHT NEVER PROGRESS ON GOD OR PURPOSE OR MEANING I FIGURED, BUT PROGRESS ON THE BRAIN - I MIGHT HAVE A CHANCE. I DID MY DOCTORATE IN BRAIN RESEARCH AND OVER THE YEARS WHILE I DID OTHER THINGS, I FOCUSED ON CONSCIOUSNESS - OUR PRIVATE SENSE OF INNER AWARENESS. CONSCIOUSNESS IS ONE BIG QUESTION TO WHICH WE MIGHT FIND ANSWERS. WHAT MAKES BRAINS CONSCIOUS? I'M ROBERT LAWRENCE KUHN, AND CLOSER TO TRUTH IS MY JOURNEY TO FIND OUT. CONSCIOUSNESS INVOLVES THE BRAIN - NO ONE DOUBTS THIS. SO I START WITH AN EXPERT ON BRAIN STRUCTURE. ARNOLD SCHEIBEL - PROFESSOR OF NEUROBIOLOGY AND PSYCHIATRY AT UCLA. ARNIE WAS MY TEACHER - IN 1964. YES, 1964 - I TOOK HIS GRADUATE COURSE. NOW ALMOST 50 YEARS ON, WE MEET AT UCLA'S BRAIN RESEARCH INSTITUTE WHERE ARNIE IS A FORMER DIRECTOR AND I A FORMER STUDENT. >>ARNIE, CONSCIOUSNESS - WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO YOU? >CONSCIOUSNESS IS AN INDIVISIBLE PART OF COMPLEX NERVOUS SYSTEMS IN ACTION. THE FIRST INFERENCE THEN WOULD BE THAT CONSCIOUSNESS IS NOT LIMITED TO HUMANS - IT IS PART AND PARCEL OF THE BIG BRAIN EXPERIENCE. MY OWN FEELING IS THAT CONSCIOUSNESS - IT'S NOT A RECENT ACQUISITION. BUT THE RICHNESS THAT WE ASSOCIATE WITH CONSCIOUSNESS IS PRETTY WELL RELATED TO THE OVERGROWTH OF THAT THING THAT WE CALL THE CEREBRAL HEMISPHERE. SO MY HUNCH IS THAT WITH SMALLER HEMISPHERES, WHICH ALL OF THE FORMS HAVE, YOU HAVE CONSCIOUSNESS BUT PROBABLY LESS IMAGE FILLED, LESS VIVID, LESS FROM OUR POINT OF VIEW - INTERESTING. I ALSO VIEW CONSCIOUSNESS AS A CONTINUUM OF NODES - AND WHAT DO I MEAN BY A NODE? A SPECIFIC INPUT, OUTPUT EXPERIENCE IN TIME. LET ME GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE. WE WERE OUT IN THE SERENGETI A FEW YEARS AGO WATCHING THE ANIMALS GRAZE. THE GRAZING EXPERIENCE SEEMS TO BE HIGHLY AUTOMATIC. IF A PREDATOR COMES INTO THEIR VIEW, IMMEDIATELY THE PATTERNS CHANGE. THE HEADS LIFT, THE EARS GO UP, THEY ORIENT. MY HUNCH IS THAT WHAT WE CALL CONSCIOUSNESS EXISTS AT PROBABLY A VERY LOW - MAYBE EVEN A NON-SIGNIFICANT LEVEL - IN THE GRAZING BEAST. BUT WHEN THERE IS AN INPUT THAT DISTURBS A PART OF THE BRAIN THAT WE CALL THE CORE OR THE RETICULAR CORE, WHICH IS SENSITIVE TO CHANGE AND ONLY TO CHANGE - THEN THIS THING CALLED CONSCIOUSNESS OPENS OUT, WHICH ALLOWS THE ANIMAL THEN TO EXAMINE OPTIONS AND TO SELECT AN OPTION. TO ME, CONSCIOUSNESS IS AN INALIENABLE PART OF THE LARGE BRAIN IN ACTION, BUT THAT IT REPRESENTS MANY, MANY LEVELS OF ACTIVITY. THERE'S A PART OF THE BRAIN CALLED THE THALAMUS. AND THE THALAMUS IS IN A SENSE THE GATEWAY TO HEAVEN - THE THALAMUS IS UP HERE AT THE FRONT END OF THE BRAIN STEM, WHICH IS THE UPPER CONTINUATION OF THE SPINAL CORD. WITH POSSIBLY ONE EXCEPTION, EVERY KIND OF INFORMATION HEADED FOR THE CORTEX HAS TO FIRST RELAY IN THE THALAMUS. FROM THE THALAMUS, THEN THE PROJECTIONS GO UP TO CORTEX. BUT TO GO TO THE CORTEX THEY HAVE GOT TO GO THROUGH A VERY IMPORTANT TOLL BOOTH - AND WE CALL THAT TOLL BOOTH THE NUCLEUS RETICULAROUS THALAMI. AND THIS SYSTEM HAS THE CAPACITY TO OPEN OR SHUT MYRIADS OF LITTLE GATES OR GATELETS. AND THESE GATELETS IN GENERAL TEND TO BE CLOSED UNLESS IT IS A HIGH PRIORITY KIND OF INFORMATION GOING THROUGH. >>HOW DO WE TAKE THE COMMON PERCEPTION OF ME AS AN INDIVIDUAL AND MAKE IT MAKE SENSE IN TERMS OF WHAT WE KNOW IN THE BRAIN? >I SEE THAT AS A HIGHLY PANORAMIC EXPERIENCE THAT UTILIZES VERY WIDELY THE PARTS OF THE BRAIN. I'M NOT ONE WHO POINTS TO A CERTAIN AREA AND SAY THAT'S WHERE I EXIST. >>TO HOLD THE SEED OF CONSCIOUSNESS IN THE PALM OF ONE'S HAND - THIS THREE POUND PIECE OF MEAT WAS A REAL PERSON. HERE WAS A SENTIENT HUMAN BEING WITH THOUGHTS AND FEELINGS, HOPES AND DREAMS. CONSCIOUSNESS IS A BIG BRAIN EXPERIENCE, ARNIE SAYS. VARIOUS BRAIN STRUCTURES PROVIDE VARIOUS MENTAL EXPERIENCES. BUT HOW DO VARIOUS BRAIN STRUCTURES WORK TOGETHER TO GENERATE OUR ASTONISHING SENSE OF INNER AWARENESS, WHICH WE CALL CONSCIOUSNESS? NOW REMARKABLY, THE BRAIN'S ONCE SECRET WORKINGS, CAN BE WATCHED. SCIENTISTS LITERALLY CAN SEE IMAGES OF CONSCIOUSNESS IN REAL TIME. I GO FROM UCLA'S BRAIN RESEARCH INSTITUTE TO UCLA'S BRAIN MAPPING CENTER. I MEET ITS DIRECTOR - A LEADER IN BRAIN IMAGING, JOHN MAZZIOTA. >JOHN, AS A BRAIN SCIENTIST, PARTICULARLY AN EXPERT IN IMAGING THE BRAIN, HOW DO YOU LOOK AT THIS PROBLEM OF CONSCIOUSNESS? >>WELL I LOOK AT IT FROM A VERY PRACTICAL POINT OF VIEW. I SEE A PATIENT WHO IS AWAKE AND CONSCIOUS WHILE YOU MEET THEM IN THE EMERGENCY ROOM AND WATCH THEM DESCEND THROUGH A VERY STEREOTYPED SERIES OF STATES THAT ENDS UP WITH COMA - OR A PATIENT WHO IS IN THE OPERATING ROOM WHO ONE SECOND IS FULLY AWAKE AND TALKING AND JOKING WITH YOU, AND TEN SECONDS INTO AN IV DRUG, IS ABSOLUTELY UNCONSCIOUS BY MOST DEFINITIONS. SO MY VANTAGE POINT ON THIS HAS TO DO WITH THE VERY PRACTICAL SIDE OF IT. BUT I THINK THAT FROM A THEORETICAL AND A MORE GENERAL VANTAGE POINT, THERE MAY BE MANY THINGS ABOUT CONSCIOUSNESS AND COGNITIVE INTERACTIONS THAT GENERATE CONSCIOUSNESS, THAT WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND VERY WELL. AND THAT'S JUST OUR IGNORANCE ABOUT NEURO SCIENCE. SO THE OPERATIONAL APPROACH GIVES US SOME INSIGHTS, BUT IT WOULD BE SHORTSIGHTED TO THINK THAT THAT'S ALL THAT THERE IS. >LETS FOLLOW SOME OF THESE INSIGHTS. WHAT ARE SOME OTHER WAYS OF LOOKING AT THE BRAIN THAT IMAGING CAN ELUCIDATE FOR US? >>WELL I THINK HOW DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE BRAIN WORK AND, AND WHERE THEIR INFORMATION COMES FORM IS SOMETHING THAT IS JUST BEGINNING TO BE EXPLORED WITH BRAIN IMAGING TOOLS. AND ONE INTERESTING EXAMPLE HAS TO DO WITH THE VISUAL SYSTEM - A SYSTEM THAT IS BROKEN UP IN TO MANY CHANNELS - CHANNELS FOR COLOR, CHANNELS FOR MOTION, ET CETERA. IN ORDER TO TAKE THIS VAST AMOUNT OF INFORMATION AND MANAGE IT IN REAL TIME. AND SO THERE'S A CENTER IN THE BRAIN THAT HAS TO DO WITH PROCESSING MOTION IN THE VISUAL ENVIRONMENT. AND IF YOU PUT A PERSON IN THE SCANNER AND YOU SHOW THEM REAL MOTION, YOU SHOW THEM A MOVIE, THAT AREA BECOMES INTENSELY ACTIVATED. IF YOU THEN SHOW THEM AN OPTICAL ILLUSION OF MOTION, THERE ACTUALLY IS NO MOTION, BUT THEY PERCEIVE THAT THERE'S MOTION - THAT AREA BECOMES ACTIVE. AND IF YOU TELL A PERSON CLOSE YOUR EYES, AND RECALL A SCENE OF A TENNIS MATCH - THAT AREA BECOMES ACTIVE. SO HERE YOU HAVE A PIECE OF BRAIN MINDING ITS OWN BUSINESS, NOT KNOWING WHETHER THE INPUT IT RECEIVES CAME FROM SOMETHING THAT YOU THOUGHT UP FROM MEMORY OR SOMETHING THAT CAME IN FROM THE EYES OF THE REAL WORLD - IT'S DOING THE SAME TASK. SO THE, THE REQUIREMENT TO UNDERSTAND THE CONTEXT HAS TO BE DONE BY SOME OTHER PART OF THE BRAIN. IS THIS YOUR OWN THOUGHT? YOUR OWN INFORMATION? OR IS THIS SOMETHING NEW COMING FROM THE OUTSIDE WORLD? EXPLORING THOSE KINDS OF QUESTIONS, I THINK WILL PROVIDE GREAT INSIGHT. I THINK IT'S JUST AN INCREDIBLE RICHNESS OF POTENTIAL. PERHAPS MUCH OF IT UNTAPPED. AND THAT THE COMPLEXITY OF THE BRAIN IS, IS A MARVEL IN ITSELF. IT'S JUST TREMENDOUSLY EXCITING. >TO OBSERVE THE BRAIN PERCEIVING AND THINKING, WHETHER SENSING THE EXTERIOR WORLD OR IMAGINING IN THE INTERIOR MIND IS TO MARVEL AT THE MECHANISMS OF AWARENESS. PHILOSOPHERS HAVE LONG DEBATED THE SO-CALLED MIND-BODY PROBLEM. NOW WE'RE GETTING AT ITS BASIC BIOLOGY. BUT WHOLE BRAIN IMAGING SHOWS ONLY GROSS BRAIN ACTIVITY. TO TRULY UNDERSTAND CONSCIOUSNESS WE MUST GO MICROSCOPIC AND RELATE MICRO ELECTRICAL ACTIVITY TO SPECIFIC MENTAL FUNCTIONS. WE MUST PROBE THE BILLIONS OF BRAIN CELLS CALLED NEURONS. I'M READY FOR THE NEURAL CORRELATES OF CONSCIOUSNESS AND I KNOW JUST THE NEURO SCIENTIST TO GUIDE ME. SO I HEAD ACROSS TOWN IN LOS ANGELES, FROM UCLA IN WESTWOOD TO CAL TECH IN PASADENA, TO MEET CHRISTOPHE KOCH. >>AS A NEURO SCIENTIST, SOMEONE WHO HAS REALLY FOCUSED ON CONSCIOUSNESS IN THE LABORATORY, HOW DO YOU BEGIN TO APPROACH THE MIND-BODY PROBLEM? >I LIKE TO THINK ABOUT IT NEURONLY - NOT JUST THE MIND BODY BUT THE MIND BRAIN PROBLEM. AND THE IT'S NOT JUST THE BRAIN DEVELOPMENT ELEMENTS. WE THINK IT'S NOT QUANTUM MECHANICS, IT'S NOT SEEING THE MOLECULES - IT'S PROBABLY NEURONS, NERVE CELLS. SO I THINK THAT THE RIGHT WAY TO THINK ABOUT THE MIND BODY PROBLEM IS TO THINK ABOUT THE MIND AND THE VAST NUMBER OF NEURONS - SO THE COALITION OF NEURONS TO GIVE RISE TO ANY ONE SPECIFIC CONSCIOUS PERSON. SO THINK ABOUT IT LIKE ELECTION IN A RELATIVE DEMOCRACY, LIKE IN THE US YOU HAVE VAST COALITIONS - SOMETIMES VERY STRANGE BEDFELLOWS, BUT THEY COME TOGETHER ON SOME, WITH SOME DEGREE OF REGULARITY TO ELECT SOMEBODY. SO YOU HAVE A WINNING COALITION AND YOU HAVE ONE OR MORE LOSING COALITION AND THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS WITH CONSCIOUSNESS. YOU HAVE ALL OF THIS TURMOIL GOING ON IN MY BRAIN BECAUSE ALL OF THESE DIFFERENT THINGS COMPETE FOR MY ATTENTION. I CAN ONLY TEND TO ONE OF A FEW THINGS WHICH MEANS THE NEURONS THAT REPRESENT THOSE DIFFERENT THINGS, IN MY BRAIN THEY ARE COMPETING AND SOME LOSE OUT AND THERE IS GOING TO BE AT ANY GIVEN POINT IN TIME, ONE WINNER. MAYBE THAT'S THE COALITION OF NEURONS THAT ULTIMATELY I AM CONSCIOUS OF. SO I THINK THAT IT IS REALLY CRITICAL TO THINK ABOUT THESE COALITIONS. THEN WE HAVE TO ASK HOW CAN WE TRACK THEM? HOW CAN WE IDENTIFY THEM IN THE BRAIN? CAN WE DO IT IN A LIVING BRAIN? AND WE ARE TALKING ABOUT NEURONS - A LARGE NUMBER OF NEURONS. YOU KNOW MAYBE A COALITION HAS A MILLION NEURONS - MAYBE MORE, MAYBE LESS - AND THEY ONLY ASSEMBLE FOR A FRACTION OF A SECOND BECAUSE I COULD QUICKLY SHIFT MY CONSCIOUSNESS. SO FOR THAT BRIEF TIME I HAVE TO CATCH THEM IN THE ACT AND IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO DO BECAUSE BRAIN IMAGING IS VERY COOL AND IT GETS ALL OF THE ACTIVITY OVER MANY SECONDS INSIDE A VERY LARGE PART OF THE BRAIN. THAT'S WHY YOU REALLY NEED TO TRACK IT AT THE LEVEL OF THE INDIVIDUAL NEURONS. >>I HAVE HAD THE PERCEPTION THAT CONSCIOUSNESS IS THIS FOREBRAIN ACTIVITY - PLANNING, DECISION MAKING, THINKING ABOUT THE FUTURE, BUT YOU HAVE A DIFFERENT APPROACH - SEEING CONSCIOUSNESS AS MORE OF AN INTERMEDIATE LEVEL - WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? >THERE IS QUITE A BIT OF EVIDENCE TO SUGGEST THAT VARIOUS HIGH LEVEL ASPECTS LIKE PLANNING OR CREATIVITY HAVE A SIGNIFICANT UNCONSCIOUS COMPONENT THAT LOTS OF WHAT YOU DO IN PLANNING OR WHEN YOU HAVE TO MAKE A DIFFICULT DECISION LIKE WHO AM I GOING TO MARRY? AM I GOING TO TAKE JOB A OR B? AM I GOING TO MOVE OR NOT? THOSE SORT OF LIFE CHANGING DECISIONS - THE WAY THAT YOU GO ABOUT IT, YOU PLAY ON VARIOUS SCENARIOS CONSCIOUSLY BUT THEN THERE IS ALL OF THIS OTHER ACTIVITY GOING ON AND VERY OFTEN YOU FIND YOURSELF TO HAVE MANY TIMES, IN MY LIFE - YOU WAKE UP IN THE MORNING AND YOU'VE MADE A DECISION. ALL RIGHT SO SOMETHING IN YOUR BRAIN SAYS OKAY THIS IS WHAT I'M GOING TO DO. AND THERE IS EVIDENCE OF THAT NATURE TO SUGGEST THAT THE HIGH SORT OF MORE COMPLICATED THINGS VERY OFTEN ARE UNCONSCIOUS. SO THAT WOULD SUGGEST THAT CONSCIOUSNESS IS REALLY AT THE INTERMEDIATE LEVEL AND IT SUGGESTS A VERY AESTHETICALLY PLEASING PICTURE BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE OUTER WORLD THAT YOU ARE NOT REALLY CONSCIOUS OF. I'M ONLY CONSCIOUS OF THE REPRESENTATION OF THE OUTER WORLD AS THEY ARE REFLECTED ON THE SENSORY SURFACE IN MY VISUAL BRAIN. THERE IS THIS INNER MOST WORLD THAT I AM NOT CONSCIOUS OF AND I AM JUST CONSCIOUS OF A REFLECTION OF THE INNER MOST WORLD ON TO THOSE PROBABLY SIMILAR SENSORY SURFACES. YOU REALLY ARE ONLY CONSCIOUS OF THE THOUGHT THAT IS BEING MAPPED ON TO VISION OR ON TO SILENT SPEECH IN YOUR HEAD. I'M NOT REALLY CONSCIOUS OF YOU - I'M ONLY CONSCIOUS OF YOUR IMAGE BEING MAPPED ON TO MY VISUAL BRAIN. AND SO YOU HAVE THIS CURIOUS SITUATION WHERE CONSCIOUSNESS HAVE US HALF WAY BETWEEN THE INNER WORLD THAT IS FOREVER HIDDEN FOR ME - MY REAL INNER WORLD - AND THIS IS OF COURSE THE WORLD THAT SIGMUND FREUD IS STARTING TO EXPLORE, AND THE OUTER WORLD THAT IS ALSO FOREVER HIDDEN FOR ME, SO HERE I AM WITH VERY LIMITED WAYS OF KNOWING THE WORLD. I ONLY KNOW THE WORLD IN THESE INDIRECT WAYS. IN BOTH CASES BOTH THE INSIDE WORLD AS WELL AS THE OUTSIDE WORLD. >>CHRISTOPHE'S NEURAL CORRELATES OF CONSCIOUSNESS ARE THRILLING. VERY SPECIFIC BRAIN ACTIVITIES THAT ARE ALWAYS ASSOCIATED WITH VERY SPECIFIC CONSCIOUS EXPERIENCES. BUT COALITION DOES NOT PROVE CAUSE. PERHAPS BRAIN ACTIVITY CORRELATES WITH CONSCIOUSNESS BECAUSE AS SOME PHILOSOPHERS OR THEOLOGIANS ARGUE, SOME HIDDEN FACTOR GENERATES BOTH. OR PERHAPS BRAIN ACTIVITY IS INDEED IDENTICAL TO CONSCIOUSNESS, AS MANY BRAIN SCIENTISTS ASSERT. OR PERHAPS WHO KNOWS WHAT? BUT THERE IS NO DENYING THAT CHRISTOPHE IS ADVANCING THE SCIENCE OF CONSCIOUSNESS. ANY THEORY OF CONSCIOUSNESS MUST NOW DEAL WITH THIS DATA. BUT WHAT ABOUT EMOTIONS AND FEELINGS, WHICH ADD COLOR AND CHARACTER TO CONSCIOUSNESS? I GO TO HISTORIC WASHINGTON SQUARE IN NEW YORK, TO NYU, WHERE I MEET JOSEPH LEDOUX - AN EXPERT ON THE NEURO BIOLOGY OF EMOTIONS. >A LOT OF MY WORK ON EMOTION HAS BEEN AIMED AT SORT OF SIDE STEPPING THE PROBLEM OF CONSCIOUSNESS. I DECIDED VERY EARLY ON THAT I WANTED TO UNDERSTAND - NOT FEARFUL FEELINGS, BECAUSE I THOUGHT THAT THAT WAS, THAT WOULD REQUIRE SOLVING THE MIND-BODY PROBLEM, BUT INSTEAD, TRYING TO UNDERSTAND HOW THE BRAIN DETECTS DANGER AND HOW IT RESPONDS TO DANGER. BECAUSE THAT, TO ME, SEEMED LIKE A PROBLEM THAT COULD BE SOLVED. NOW FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE, I HAVE BEEN VERY IMPRESSED WITH THE CONCEPT OR THE IDEA THAT THERE IS A MENTAL WORK SPACE, A WORKING MEMORY, THAT INVOLVES THE PRE-FRONTAL CORTEX, THAT IS RESPONSIBLE FOR OUR COGNITIVE AWARENESS OF AN EXTERNAL EVENT. SO IF I SEE A LEAF ON A TREE, THAT LEAF IS GOING TO BE REPRESENTED AS A PERCEPTUAL OBJECT IN MY WORKING MEMORY, BUT IN ORDER FOR THAT TO BE MEANINGFUL I'VE GOT TO RETRIEVE LONG TERM MEMORIES FROM MY IMMEDIATE TEMPORAL LOBE, HIPPPOCAMPAL SYSTEM THAT TELL ME THAT IT'S A LEAF THROUGH SEMANTIC KNOWLEDGE AND IT MAY ALSO BE INVOLVED IN RETRIEVING INFORMATION ABOUT EXPERIENCES THAT I HAVE HAD WITH LEAVES THAT WOULD BE EPISODIC KNOWLEDGE OR EPISODIC MEMORY. SO THAT INTEGRATION GIVES ME A CONSCIOUSNESS OF THE LEAF. NOW MY IDEA ABOUT EMOTIONAL CONSCIOUSNESS OR FEELINGS IS THAT THERE IS A THIRD INGREDIENT THAT IS ADDED IN, WHICH IS THE FACT THAT EMOTION SYSTEMS IN THE BRAIN ARE ACTIVE. AND THIS IS ADDED IN, IN TWO WAYS. ONE IS THAT WHEN THE AMYGDALA, WHICH IS AN IMPORTANT PART OF THE BRAIN FOR FEAR, IS ACTIVATED - WHAT THESE SYSTEMS DO IS THEY RELEASE THEIR CHEMICALS WIDELY THROUGHOUT THE BRAIN AND THEY PRODUCE WHAT IS CALLED BRAIN AROUSAL. SO THAT PROVIDES THE WORKING MEMORY WITH A KIND OF ALERTING THAT IT IS NOT JUST A LEAF BUT IT IS A LEAF WITH SOME SIGNIFICANCE. AND AT THE SAME TIME, BUT IN A MUCH SLOWER WAY, THE HORMONES ARE BEING RELEASED IN THE BODY AND OTHER RESPONSES ARE OCCURRING IN THE BODY, AND THOSE WILL ALSO COME BACK AND FEED BACK TO THE BRAIN - AND THEN THERE IS A THIRD CHANNEL OF INFORMATION WHICH IS A DIRECT INPUT FROM THE AMYGDALA, BACK TO THE CORTEX. SO THOSE ARE THREE KIND OF EMOTION SIGNALS THAT CAN ADD TO THE PERCEPTION AND MEMORY THAT IS ALREADY IN WORKING MEMORY, AND TURN A NORMAL CONSCIOUS EXPERIENCE INTO AN EMOTIONAL CONSCIOUS EXPERIENCE. >>CAN YOU PROJECT FORWARD? 20 YEARS, 50, A HUNDRED YEARS? WHERE YOU THINK BRAIN SCIENCE CAN BE IN UNDERSTANDING ULTIMATELY WHAT CONSCIOUSNESS IS? >I WOULD LIKE TO PROJECT MAYBE A HUNDRED THOUSAND YEARS INSTEAD BECAUSE I THINK IT'S NOT REALLY A SCIENTIFIC ANSWER BUT IT'S KIND OF A HOPE FOR MANKIND, WHICH IS THAT RIGHT NOW OUR PRE-FRONTAL CORTEX HAS NO COMMUNICATION WITH THE AMYGDALA. SO THE PART OF THE CORTEX, PRE-FRONT CORTEX THAT IS INVOLVED IN THINKING, PLANNING, DECISION MAKING - IS NOT CONNECTED WITH THE AMYGDALA. THAT IS WHY IT IS SO HARD FOR US TO HAVE CONSCIOUS CONTROL OVER AN EMOTION LIKE FEAR OR ANXIETY. WE CAN'T SAY OH OKAY I'M NOT GOING TO BE ANXIOUS, I'M NOT GOING TO BE DEPRESSED ANY MORE - BECAUSE THERE IS NO CONNECTIVITY THERE. ON THE OTHER HAND, OUR EMOTIONS HAVE STRONG CONNECTIVITY WITH THE ENTIRE CORTEX. THAT'S WHY IT'S EASIER FOR EMOTIONS TO MONOPOLIZE AND DOMINATE OUR THOUGHTS. SO THE IDEA THAT I WOULD THINK IN AN OPTIMISTIC HUMAN FUTURE WOULD BE THAT OUR EMOTIONS AND COGNITIONS WOULD BE BETTER INTEGRATED. WHAT WE WANT IS A BRAIN THAT CAN HARMONIOUSLY USE AND INTEGRATE THOUGHTS AND EMOTIONS IN A KIND OF HOLISTIC AND INTEGRATIVE WAY, RATHER THAN ONE DOMINATING OVER THE OTHER. AND IF WE HAD THAT, THEN WE WOULD HAVE A WORLD WHERE WE WEREN'T COMPETING AND FIGHTING AND KILLING EACH OTHER, BUT INSTEAD LIVING TOGETHER MORE HARMONIOUSLY. >>EMOTIONS ARE NOT MYSTERIES. THEY ARE GENERATED BY SPECIFIC BRAIN STRUCTURES. AND WHILE EMOTIONS ENRICH CONSCIOUSNESS, EMOTIONS THEMSELVES ARE NOT CONSCIOUSNESS. SO HERE IS THE REAL MYSTERY - MANY THINGS AFFECT THE EXPRESSIONS OF CONSCIOUSNESS BUT NOTHING ACCOUNTS FOR THE EXPERIENCE OF CONSCIOUSNESS. I HEAR OF A NEW WAY OF THINKING - NOT GOING MORE MICRO DEEPER INTO THE BRAIN, BUT GOING MORE MACRO - OUTSIDE, INTO THE WORLD. CAN WHAT HAPPENS BEYOND THE BRAIN DETERMINE CONSCIOUSNESS? I GO TO MIT TO MEET STEVEN CHOROVER, PROFESSOR OF BRAIN AND COGNITIVE SCIENCES. THREE DECADES AGO I WORKED UNDER STEVE, EXPLORING HOW THE BRAIN THINKS, FEELS, AND ACTS. >STEVE, HOW DO YOU SEE AS A BRAIN SCIENTIST AND SOCIAL PSYCHOLOGIST - HOW DO YOU SEE THE NATURE OF CONSCIOUSNESS? >>WELL I THINK ABOUT IT AS NECESSARILY INVOLVING BOTH THE STUDY OF THE ORGANIZATION AND THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE BRAIN. AND THE ORGANIZATION AND DEVELOPMENT OF THE CONTEXT AND THE SOCIAL ENVIRONMENT. WE KNOW THAT IN MANY SITUATIONS THE ENVIRONMENT AND THE SOCIAL CONTEXT HAVE A POWERFUL MODULATING EFFECT - NOT ONLY UPON BEHAVIOR AND ITS NORMAL CONTEXT, BUT IN THE EFFECTS IN STUDYING THE EFFECTS, THE AFTER EFFECTS OF BRAIN INJURY FOR EXAMPLE. AND A LONG SERIES OF EXPERIMENTS EXTENDING OVER SEVERAL DECADES, DEMONSTRATED THAT THE CONTEXT IN WHICH THE ANIMALS WERE OBSERVED POST OPERATIVELY, THE EFFECTS OF THE SAME BRAIN LESION IN THESE DIFFERENT SITUATIONS WERE DRAMATICALLY DIFFERENT. FOR EXAMPLE THE EARLY OBSERVATIONS WERE THAT THE POST OPERATIVE EFFECTS ON ANIMALS IN ISOLATED CAGES WERE TAMENESS. HOWEVER WHEN THE SAME ANIMALS, OR COMPARABLE ANIMALS WERE STUDIED IN A SOCIAL CONTEXT IN A COLONY CAGE SITUATION, THE EFFECTS OF THE OPERATION WAS A CHANGE IN DOMINANCE HIERARCHIES. AND FINALLY THE SAME LESION PERFORMED IN ANIMALS LIVING IN A FREE RANGING HABITAT - THE END POINT OF THE AFTER EFFECTS OF THE SURGERY WAS DEATH. THE ANIMAL SIMPLY FAILED TO SURVIVE IN THEIR ORIGINAL ENVIRONMENT SO THAT IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO IMAGINE TALKING ABOUT THE EFFECTS OF THIS PARTICULAR BRAIN LESION AS HAVING ANY SIMPLE SINGULAR CONSEQUENCES. AND IT LEADS TO THE NOTION THAT CONSCIOUSNESS AND SOCIAL BEHAVIOR AND OUR COGNITIVE MAPS OF THE WORLD, ARE CREATED BY A PROCESS IN WHICH OUR NERVOUS SYSTEMS ARE INTERACTING WITH STIMULI, IMPINGING UPON THEM FROM OUTSIDE, DEPENDING UPON THE NATURE OF THE SITUATION THAT WE ARE IN - THE SAME KINDS OF ACTIVATIONS OF THE SAME REGIONS OF THE BRAIN IN DIFFERENT CONTEXT PRODUCE DIFFERENT BEHAVIORS. >SO TAKING THAT SET OF DATA, HOW DO YOU THEN REFLECT UPON THE NATURE OF HUMAN CONSCIOUSNESS? >>WELL I TEND TO THINK THAT THE PROBLEM WITH HUMAN CONSCIOUSNESS IS REALLY THE PROBLEM OF UNDERSTANDING PATTERNS OF INTERACTION BETWEEN THINGS GOING ON WITHIN THE ORGANISM, WITHIN THE BRAIN, WITHIN DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE BRAIN, ON THE ONE HAND, AND THINGS GOING ON IN THE SURROUNDING CONTEXT ON THE OTHER HAND. AND IT MAY VERY WELL TURN OUT SO THAT WE WILL BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND CONSCIOUSNESS IN TERMS OF THESE INTERACTIONS AS WELL AS IN TERMS OF THE SUBJECTIVE EXPERIENCE OF BEING SELF- AWARE. >WHAT MAKES INNER EXPERIENCE FEEL SO REAL, SO PERSONAL? CONSCIOUSNESS REMAINS CONTROVERSIAL. BUT NOT SO MUCH AMONG BRAIN RESEARCHERS. NEURO SCIENTISTS GENERALLY BELIEVE THAT EVERYTHING IN THE MIND IS CAUSED BY SOMETHING IN THE BRAIN - WITH NOTHING LEFT OVER AND NOTHING EXTRA TO EXPLAIN. BRAIN STRUCTURES DETERMINE ATTENTION AND ALERTNESS AND DRIVE EMOTIONS AND FEELINGS. IMAGES OF LIVING BRAINS AND ENERGETIC ACTIONS AND ELECTRICAL IMPULSES OF NEURONS COMMUNICATING IN A RAPID FIRE CODE, CORRELATE WITH MENTAL PERCEPTION AND COGNITIVE THOUGHT. SO WHAT MAKES BRAINS CONSCIOUS? NOTHING, SAY BRAIN SCIENTISTS. BRAINS MAKE THEMSELVES CONSCIOUS. OR ARE THEMSELVES CONSCIOUS. BUT LINGERING STILL IS OUR PRIVATE SENSE OF SUBJECTIVE AWARENESS. IS IT AN ILLUSION? OR A CLUE? THE QUESTION HOVERS - DOES BRAIN SCIENCE ALONE TAKE US CLOSER TO TRUTH?
