Is Human Consciousness Special? | Episode 709 | Closer To Truth

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>I SIT ALONE AND MARVEL AT WHAT I SEE INSIDE. I AM AWARE. I PERCEIVE AN INNER WORLD OF PULSING THOUGHTS AND WAVE-LIKE FEELINGS. MY PRIVATE SENSE OF PERSONAL CONSCIOUSNESS. BUT IS PERSONAL CONSCIOUSNESS ANYTHING SPECIAL? HOW RADICAL THE DIVERGING VIEWS. SCIENTISTS STATE THAT MY CONSCIOUSNESS IS JUST MY BRAIN, ITSELF THE RANDOM RESULTS OF ACCIDENTAL EVOLUTION. THEOLOGIANS BELIEVE THAT MY CONSCIOUSNESS REFLECTS A CREATOR GOD WHO MADE IT. MYSTICS HOLD THAT MY CONSCIOUSNESS IS BUT A DROP IN THE OCEAN OF COSMIC CONSCIOUSNESS, WHICH IS THE REAL REALITY. WHAT'S RIGHT? IS HUMAN CONSCIOUSNESS SPECIAL? I'M ROBERT LAWRENCE KUHN AND CLOSER TO TRUTH IS MY JOURNEY TO FIND OUT. I START WITH MATERIALISM, THAT ONLY THE PHYSICAL IS REAL - NO SOULS OR SPIRITS HERE. HOW WOULD CONSCIOUSNESS WORK AS A MECHANISM? I GO TO M.I.T. TO ASK THE FLINT-MINDED PIONEER OF ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE, MARVIN MINSKY. NOTHING MYTHICAL FROM MARVIN. MARVIN, CAN YOU SAY THERE IS ANYTHING REALLY SPECIAL ABOUT HUMAN CONSCIOUSNESS? >>WELL, I THINK THERE IS SOMETHING VERY SPECIAL ABOUT HUMAN THINKING, WHICH I LIKE TO CALL REFLECTIVENESS OR SELF-CONSCIOUSNESS, IF YOU LIKE. AND THAT'S THE ABILITY TO REMEMBER WHAT YOU'VE BEEN DOING. AND BY REMEMBER, THAT'S AN INTERESTING CONCEPT ITSELF, BECAUSE THERE ARE MANY WAYS TO REMEMBER THINGS. YOU CAN REMEMBER SOMETHING AS AN IMAGE OR AS A SEQUENCE OF SOUNDS OR AS A DIAGRAM OR - AND THEN THERE ARE WAYS OF REMEMBERING FOR WHICH WE HAVE NO WORDS. BUT JUST AS IN A COMPUTER, WE CAN REPRESENT DATA IN MAYBE 20 DIFFERENT WAYS, CALLED DATA STRUCTURES, WE'VE EVOLVED A LARGE NUMBER OF WAYS TO REPRESENT OUR PREVIOUS MENTAL STATES, OR PART OF THEM. AND I DON'T THINK ANY OTHER ANIMALS HAVE THIS ABILITY TO REPRESENT IN MANY DIFFERENT WAYS WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN DOING RECENTLY, AND WHAT WERE THE RESULTS, AND SO FORTH, SO THAT YOU CAN THEN NOT ONLY THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU'VE DONE IN THE WORLD, BUT YOU CAN THINK ABOUT THE COURSE THAT YOUR THINKING PROCEEDED ALONG. AND YOU CAN SAY, WELL, I'VE WASTED A LOT OF TIME, I'M NOT DOING VERY WELL ON THIS PROBLEM. MAYBE I SHOULD THINK BACK AND TRY TO THINK ABOUT THIS USING METHOD 4, WHICH IS GOOD FOR THIS KIND OF PROBLEM. AND SO THIS IS, I THINK, WHAT MAKES US UNIQUE, ABLE TO IMAGINE SITUATIONS THAT HAVEN'T HAPPENED YET. >AND THEREFORE WHAT WE'RE DOING IS INTERNALIZING AND SIMULATING DIFFERENT WORLDS AND TESTING THEM OUT IN OUR INSIDE BEFORE WE CHOOSE ONE AND DO IT IN THE WORLD? >>THAT'S RIGHT. AND IN MY BOOK, I ALSO USE ANOTHER LEVEL CALLED SELF CONSCIOUS REFLECTION. IN SELF CONSCIOUS REFLECTION, YOU'RE DOING SOMETHING EVEN STRANGER, WHICH IS YOU'RE SAYING, ARE THE ACTIONS I'M CONSIDERING, OR I HAVE RECENTLY DONE, DO THOSE AGREE WITH MY IDEALS AND VALUES THAT I HAVE LEARNED? AND THAT'S, WE COULD USE THE WORD CONSCIENCE AS WELL AS CONSCIOUS, AND I WONDER IF ANY ANIMALS HAVE ANYTHING LIKE THAT LEVEL. >THEOLOGIANS WOULD LIKE TO COME ALONG AND LOOK AT CONSCIOUSNESS AND SAY, OKAY, THAT IS WHERE WE NEED OUR IMMORTAL SOUL, BECAUSE WHATEVER YOU'RE DEFINING THAT HAS A UNIQUENESS TO HUMAN BEINGS AND THIS KIND OF CONSCIOUSNESS NEEDS THIS SOMETHING SPECIAL. >>WELL, YOU COULD HAVE A PLACE FOR AN IMMORTAL SOUL, BUT WHAT WOULD YOU DO WITH IT? UNLESS YOU TELL ME HOW IT WORKS, I'M NOT INTERESTED. IT'S LIKE SAYING THAT THERE IS AN ELEPHANT IN THE NEXT ROOM. WELL, I COULD GO AND LOOK AND IT WOULDN'T BE THERE. IF IT'S A SOUL, I COULD GO AND LOOK AND YOU'RE TELLING ME IT'S INVISIBLE AND INDETECTABLE, SO I WILL STOP LISTENING TO YOU. WHAT ARE THE PARTS OF THE SPIRIT AND HOW DO THEY INTERACT? WHAT IS THE ESSENCE MADE OF AND WHAT IS IT'S STRUCTURE? IT'S A PERFECTLY HUMAN AND NATURAL THING, IF YOU DON'T HAVE A GOOD THEORY OF PSYCHOLOGY AND IF YOU CAN'T IMAGINE HOW A REFLECTIVE LAYER IN THE BRAIN COULD THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU'VE BEEN THINKING BEFORE, THEN YOU SAY, WELL, THERE IS A SPIRIT THERE. IT'S A WAY TO KEEP FROM THINKING ABOUT, AND WASTING YOUR TIME, IF YOU DON'T KNOW ENOUGH. >MARVIN SAYS THAT SELF REFLECTIVENESS IS UNIQUE TO HUMAN BEINGS, BUT IT IS PRODUCED BY LAYERS IN THE BRAIN, CERTAINLY NOT BY SOME SILLY SPIRIT OR SOUL. I DID MY DOCTORATE IN BRAIN RESEARCH AND I FELT THE SAME, AT TIMES. BUT AT OTHER TIMES, I SET TO WONDER - CAN HUMAN CONSCIOUSNESS BE SOMETHING MORE? CAN THE MASSIVE MOUNTAIN OF HUMAN BELIEFS BE IGNORED? CAN THE MYSTICAL BE SO EASILY DISMISSED? I GO TO THE UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA IRVINE TO MEET A PSYCHIATRIST WHO IS AN EXPERT ON EASTERN MYSTICAL TRADITIONS, DR. ROGER WALSH. ROGER IS A NEUROSCIENTIST AND A DEVOTEE OF MEDITATIVE PRACTICES. >>I START TO APPROACH THE QUESTION OF CONSCIOUSNESS FROM AS MANY PERSPECTIVES AS POSSIBLE. MY ASSUMPTION IS THAT EACH DISCIPLINE, FROM EVOLUTIONARY THEORY TO BIOLOGY TO NEUROSCIENCE TO CULTURAL STUDIES TO SPIRITUAL STUDIES, HAS SOMETHING TO CONTRIBUTE, SOMETHING VALUABLE TO TELL US. AND, NOT SURPRISINGLY, EACH DISCIPLINE GIVES US A DIFFERENT ANSWER. ACTUALLY EVEN THE EVOLUTIONARY THEORISTS HAVE DIFFERENT IDEAS. SOME SAY IT'S JUST AN ACCIDENTAL BY-PRODUCT THAT HAD HAPPENED ALONG THE WAY AND HERE WE ARE AND IT WAS A NICE, ENJOYABLE ACCIDENT, AND WELL, LET'S ENJOY THE RIDE. OTHERS SAY THAT IT'S ESSENTIAL FOR SURVIVAL, THIS IS PART OF OUR NATURE AS SURVIVAL MACHINES, CONSCIOUSNESS IS A VERY FANCY, BAROQUE WAY DNA HAS OF REPLICATING ITSELF. A NEUROSCIENTIST WOULD SAY THAT CONSCIOUSNESS IS A BY-PRODUCT OF THE BRAIN, AND THAT MAY BE ALL IT IS. ON THE OTHER HAND, CULTURAL STUDIES PEOPLE WOULD SAY THAT CONSCIOUSNESS IS A PRODUCT OF THE CULTURE WE'RE BROUGHT UP IN. NOW, THE QUESTION WHAT IS IT FOR, THOUGH? IF WE'VE BEEN GIVEN THIS EXTRAORDINARY GIFT OF BEING CONSCIOUS BEINGS, WHAT DO WE DO WITH IT, WHAT IS IT REALLY FOR? WELL, ONE CLASSIC ANSWER THAT ALSO PROBABLY RESONATES FOR EACH OF US IS, OK, WE'RE CONSCIOUS, WELL, MAYBE ONE FUNCTION OF CONSCIOUSNESS AND PURPOSE IS TO BE AS CONSCIOUS AS POSSIBLE. MAYBE ONE OF CONSCIOUSNESS' TASKS IS TO UNDERSTAND ITSELF. AND HOW DO WE DO THAT? WELL, THE GREAT CONTEMPLATIVE AND SPIRITUAL EDITIONS TELL US THAT OUR USUAL STATE OF CONSCIOUSNESS IS NOT VERY CLEAR AND IS RATHER CLOUDED AND MURKY. AND THAT ONE OF THE OPPORTUNITIES OF HUMAN EXISTENCE IS TO CLARIFY AND REFINE CONSCIOUSNESS SO THAT CONSCIOUSNESS WAKES UP TO IT'S TRUE NATURE, WHICH THE CONTEMPLATIVE TRADITIONS SAY IS TRANSCENDENTAL, IS CONSCIOUSNESS THAT CREATES ALL THINGS. >BUT DO WE SEE THE MEDITATIVE TRADITIONS OFFERING A MEANS TO AN END, OR AN END IN THEMSELVES? >>WELL, THE MEDITATIVE TRADITIONS OFFER A SET OF PRACTICES WHICH CULTIVATE BOTH PARTICULAR QUALITIES, SUCH AS AWARENESS, CLARITY, CONSCIOUSNESS, EMOTIONS SUCH AS LOVE AND COMPASSION, AND ALSO A GOAL OF THE AWAKENING OF CONSCIOUSNESS, WHICH IS DESCRIBED AS A RECOGNITION OF OUR TRUE NATURE. AND THOSE ARE VARIOUSLY KNOWN AS ENLIGHTENMENT OR LIBERATION OR SALVATION OR SATORI - DIFFERENT NAMES BUT POINTING TO THE FARTHER REACHES OF OUR INDIVIDUAL DEVELOPMENT. AND FROM A VERY LARGE PERSPECTIVE, THERE IS AN UNDERSTANDING WITHIN THE CONTEMPLATIVE TRADITIONS THAT, YES, THERE IS A LARGER PURPOSE TO HUMAN LIFE AND TO CONSCIOUSNESS AND THAT CONSCIOUSNESS IS PLAYING THIS EXTRAORDINARY COSMIC GAME OF CREATING WORLDS AND APPARENTLY SEPARATE INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE FORGOTTEN WHAT THEY REALLY ARE AND YET HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY OF WAKING UP TO THEIR TRUE NATURE AS PURE CONSCIOUSNESS. AND ONE OF THE CHALLENGES WE ALL FACE IN THE QUEST FOR DEEPER UNDERSTANDING IS MAINTAINING THE PASSION OF WANTING TO KNOW, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, REALIZING THAT ANYTHING WE KNOW IS ONLY A VERY SMALL PART OF THE PICTURE. >THE CLAIM IS THAT DIVERSE DISCIPLINES, WORKING TOGETHER IN HARMONY, CAN ENHANCE UNDERSTANDING OF HUMAN CONSCIOUSNESS. I DO NOT ALWAYS AGREE. TRAINED IN BRAIN SCIENCE, I DO NOT NATURALLY WEIGHT DIVERSE DISCIPLINES EQUALLY. I DO NOT LIKE FORCED HARMONY. SCIENCE IS SURE - ALL ELSE IS SUSPECT. BUT BEING SUSPECT DOESN'T MAKE ALL ELSE FALSE. BUT BEING SUSPECT DOES IMPOSE A HIGHER OR DIFFERENT STANDARD OF KNOWING. AS FOR THE WISDOM TRADITIONS, THEY'D COME LOW ON MY LIST, WHICH IS WHY I GUESS I SHOULD PAY MORE ATTENTION TO THEM. I GO TO THE ROLLING HILLS ABOVE SAN FRANCISCO TO THE INSTITUTE OF NOETIC SCIENCES TO MEET IT'S PRESIDENT, MARILYN SCHLITZ. MARILYN TRAINED IN ANTHROPOLOGY, CONDUCTED RESEARCH IN PARAPSYCHOLOGY, AND NOW LEADS NOVEL EXPLORATIONS OF CONSCIOUSNESS. SHE APPRECIATES SCIENCE BUT SEES CONSCIOUSNESS AS DRAWN ON A FAR LARGER CANVAS. I'LL PUSH HER ON THIS. MARILYN, TO MANY SCIENTISTS WHO BELIEVE THAT ONLY THE PHYSICAL IS REAL, CONSCIOUSNESS IS DERIVATIVE. IF CONSCIOUSNESS HAS SOME INDEPENDENT EXISTENCE, CAN WE ASK THE QUESTION, IS THERE ANY PURPOSE TO IT? >>I WOULD ASK THE QUESTION DOES AN ACORN HAVE PURPOSE? AND DOES A SEEDLING HAVE PURPOSE? AND DOES A CHILD OR A BABY HAVE PURPOSE? AND I THINK THERE'S NO QUESTION THAT THERE IS A THELOS IN THAT ACORN TO BECOME AN OAK TREE. AND SO, IT'S PURPOSE IN MANIFESTING IT'S CONSCIOUSNESS, AS IT WERE, IS TO REACH FOR THE LIGHT AND TO BEGIN TO OFFER SOME, YOU KNOW, GREATER UNFOLDING FOR THE FOREST, OR WHEREVER THAT TREE HAPPENS TO LIE. ANYTIME WE LOOK AT LIFE, IT UNFOLDS WITH A SENSE OF PURPOSE TOWARD - SO, WE CAN ASK, WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF HUMAN CONSCIOUSNESS? AND I WOULD THINK IT'S TOWARD GROWTH. IT IS TOWARD AN UNFOLDING OF OUR GREATER UNDERSTANDING OF OURSELVES AND OUR RELATIONSHIP TO THE BROADER WORLD IN WHICH WE'RE EMBEDDED. REALITY IS ACTUALLY ARTICULATED THROUGH OUR CONSCIOUSNESS, THROUGH OUR ABILITY TO SENSE, TO SYNTHESIZE AND TO THEN PUT IT BACK OUT INTO THE WORLD IN A WAY THAT IS DIRECTIVE. >IS THIS METAPHOR OR IS THERE SOME ATTEMPT AT SOME REAL REALITY UNDERNEATH ALL OF THIS? >>WELL, I THINK THAT GIVEN MY METAPHYSIC, WHICH IS REALLY THAT CONSCIOUSNESS IS THE ENTIRETY AND, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T SORT OF REDUCE IT, ALTHOUGH YOU CAN, FROM A KIND OF SCIENTIFIC POINT OF VIEW, LOOK AT THE PIECES - >THE ENTIRETY OF THE WORLD? >>OF THE WHOLE. >THE WHOLE? >>WHATEVER THAT IS. SO IT'S THE WORLD, IT'S THE UNIVERSE, IT'S THE UNIVERSES WITHIN THE UNIVERSES. IT'S THE RIGHT BALANCE AND RIGHT RELATIONSHIP THAT THIS TINY LITTLE PLANET WITH THIS LITTLE BIT OF WATER WAS ABLE TO THEN GENERATE THE VAST ARRAY OF LIFE FORMS THAT WE HAVE HERE. TO ME, THAT IS AN EXAMPLE OF THE GOAL-DIRECTEDNESS OF CONSCIOUSNESS. TO TAKE FORM, TO GROW, TO EXPAND, TO ACCELERATE OUR APPRECIATION FOR OURSELVES. >WITH THAT METAPHYSIC, THEN IN THAT CONTEXT DOES HUMAN CONSCIOUSNESS, IN YOUR VIEW, HAVE SOMETHING REALLY SPECIAL WITHIN THAT OR IS IT JUST PART OF THE, THIS OVERALL COHERENT WHOLE? >>I WOULD SAY THAT WE ARE VERY UNIQUE IN CERTAIN WAYS, AND I THINK THAT EACH ONE OF US IS UNIQUE. I MEAN, IT IS OUR BIRTH RIGHT TO INDIVIDUATE. AND SO WE CAN TAKE ON OUR VARIOUS PERSPECTIVES, OUR VARIOUS FORMS, BUT THAT ULTIMATELY WE ARE A PART OF, YOU KNOW, HOMO SAPIEN SAPIENS, WHICH GIVES US A PARTICULAR SORT OF ARRAY OF QUALITIES, CHARACTERISTICS, CAPACITIES. AND IN FACT, IF YOU THINK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WHAT IS OUR PROWESS AND POTENTIAL, WE CAN NOW CREATE NEW LIFE FORMS IN A PETRI DISH IN THE COURSE OF AN AFTERNOON THAT HAD PREVIOUSLY TAKEN MILLIONS, IF NOT BILLIONS, OF YEARS. SO, WE HAVE BECOME VERY VOLITIONAL. WE HAVE BECOME VERY AGENT-ORIENTED IN OUR ATTEMPTS TO SORT OF HARNESS THE PHYSICAL ASPECTS OF REALITY. NO OTHER SPECIES HAS DONE THAT. >SURE, I'D LIKE CONSCIOUSNESS TO BE COSMIC AND DIRECTIVE, THE HEART OF REALITY, GIVING MEANING TO EXISTENCE AND PURPOSE TO LIFE. WHO WOULDN'T? BUT WISHFUL THINKING CAN LEAD TO FLUFFY THOUGHTS. SCIENCE CANNOT BE ASKED TO CONFIRM THAT WHICH IT SHOULD NOT EVEN ADDRESS. I NEED A RIGOROUS MATERIALIST, YET SOMEONE WHO SEES DEEPLY THE PROFOUND ISSUES OF CONSCIOUSNESS. I NEED THE OXFORD-TRAINED PHILOSOPHER KNOWN FOR HIS RADICAL, MYSTERIAN VIEWS, COLIN MCGINN. COLIN, AS A PHILOSOPHER WHO HAS DEVELOPED A MYSTERIAN VIEW OF CONSCIOUSNESS, THAT CONSCIOUSNESS IS SOME, SO DEEPLY PROBLEMATIC THAT WE MAY NEVER UNDERSTAND WHAT IT REALLY IS ALL ABOUT, HOW CAN YOU LOOK AT THE POTENTIAL OF PURPOSE, OR HUMAN PURPOSE FOR CONSCIOUSNESS, WHICH MANY PHILOSOPHERS, PARTICULARLY PHILOSOPHERS OF RELIGION, WOULD LIKE TO READ INTO SUCH A MYSTERIAN POSITION? >>YEAH, I THINK CONSCIOUSNESS HAS NO MORE PURPOSE THAN ANY OTHER BIOLOGICAL ADAPTATION. SO THEY, BIOLOGICAL ADAPTATIONS, HAVE PURPOSE WITHIN THE LIFE OF THE ORGANISM. BROADLY SPEAKING, THEIR PURPOSE IS TO ENABLE THE ORGANISM TO SURVIVE AND REPRODUCE. CONSCIOUSNESS HAS THAT PURPOSE. IT IS PART OF OUR BIOLOGICAL ENDOWMENT AND ONE THING WHICH ENABLES US TO ACT IN REPRODUCTIVE AND SURVIVAL MODE WAYS. SO IT HAS THAT KIND OF PURPOSE, BUT IT HAS NO TRANSCENDENT PURPOSE IN THE SENSE THAT SOMEBODY MADE IT THAT WAY WITH A PURPOSE IN MIND. SO IT SEEMS TO ME THAT CONSCIOUSNESS IS NO MORE SPECIAL THAN THE KIDNEYS OR THE HEART OR THE DIGESTIVE SYSTEM. IT IS JUST ONE OF OUR ADAPTATIONS. ARISING WE DON'T KNOW HOW, OF COURSE, ACCORDING TO MYSTERIAN POSITION, AND IT HAS A PURPOSE WITHIN THE BIOLOGICAL WORLD, BUT IT DOESN'T HAVE ANY PURPOSE FROM THE POINT OF VIEW OF GOD DESIGNING US TO HAVE THAT. >NOW, I CERTAINLY APPRECIATE YOU FEELING THAT WAY, BUT YOUR POLE POSITION PHILOSOPHY IS THAT CONSCIOUSNESS, AS PART OF THE BRAIN, IS SO DIFFERENT THAN WHAT THE KIDNEY OR THE LIVER OR THE HEART FUNCTION, EVEN THOUGH SUPERFICIALLY THEY'RE SORT OF THE SAME. >>YEAH. >AND ALSO THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE TO HAVE SOMETHING SO UNIQUE BUILT INTO THE PHYSICAL WORLD AND IT'S EXPANSION TO EXPLAIN IT IN SOME, MAYBE SOME RADICAL WAYS, THAT IT WOULD SEEM TO PUSH CONSCIOUSNESS BEYOND THE NORMAL BIOLOGICAL ADAPTATIONS. >>YES, WELL, I THINK IT DOES, BUT NOT IN THE DIRECTION OF TRANSCENDENT PURPOSE. IT PUSHES IT BEYOND THEM IN THE SENSE OF WHAT CAN BE EXPLAINED, ESPECIALLY WHAT CAN BE EXPLAINED WITHIN OUR CURRENT THEORETICAL SYSTEM. SO YOU ARE RIGHT IN SAYING, ACCORDING TO ME, CONSCIOUSNESS IS MUCH MORE OF A MYSTERY THAN ANYTHING ELSE, EVEN THOUGH THOSE OTHER THINGS CAN BE MYSTERIOUS TO LESSER DEGREES, IT IS A MUCH MORE PROFOUND MYSTERY THAN THOSE THINGS. BUT THAT DOESN'T LEAD ME TO ANY POSITION WHICH POSTULATES A PURPOSE TO THE UNIVERSE, OR ANYTHING OF THE KIND, BECAUSE MY EXPLANATION FOR WHY CONSCIOUSNESS IS SO BAFFLING TO US IS A RESOLUTELY NATURALISTIC EXPLANATION. IT ARISES FROM THE FACT THAT OUR OWN INTELLIGENCE HAS BEEN EVOLVED, IS EVOLVED BY, AS AN ADAPTATION AND HAS THE KIND OF LIMITS OF ANY INTELLIGENCE OF ANY SPECIES ON THE PLANET HAS. SO REALLY WHAT IS SURPRISING IS WE CAN UNDERSTAND AS MUCH AS WE CAN ABOUT THE UNIVERSE. IF WE RUN UP AGAINST SOMETHING WE CAN'T UNDERSTAND, THAT IS QUITE PREDICTABLE, THAT'S WHAT WE WOULD SUPPOSE. IF WE FOUND THAT OUR INTELLIGENCE COULD EXPLAIN EVERYTHING ABOUT THE UNIVERSE, IRRESPECTIVE OF IT'S ADAPTIVE ADVANTAGE TO US, THAT WOULD ACTUALLY BE A COUNT AGAINST THE THEORY OF EVOLUTION, BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE AN ANOMALY IN THE BIOLOGICAL WORLD. >SO EVEN IF CONSCIOUSNESS IS RADICALLY MYSTERIOUS, COLIN SAYS, IT IS NOT SUPERNATURAL AND PROJECTS NO PURPOSE. HUMAN CONSCIOUSNESS, HE ARGUES, IS AN EVOLUTIONARY ADAPTATION. TO MOST SCIENTISTS, EVOLUTION PROVIDES A COMPLETE EXPLANATION FOR CONSCIOUSNESS. BUT NOT EVERYONE AGREES. SOME SEE A PROTORELIGIOUS AGENDA UNDERLYING CONSCIOUSNESS. I FOLLOW THE TRAIL TO PRINCETON THEOLOGICAL SEMINARY TO MEET AN EXPERT WHO GIVES A THEOLOGICAL INTERPRETATION TO THE ANTHROPOLOGICAL DEVELOPMENT OF HUMAN CONSCIOUSNESS, WENSEL VAN HUESTEIN. >>BUT CONSCIOUSNESS FOR ME AS A THEOLOGIAN BECOMES INTERESTING IN TERMS OF THE WAY WE ARE EMBODIED CREATURES THAT HAVE CERTAIN KIND OF DISPOSITIONS. ONE OF THOSE IS WHAT I WOULD CALL A RELIGIOUS DISPOSITION, AND I THINK, WHAT I FIND FASCINATING BY GOING BACK SO FAR IN PREHISTORY, IS TO SEE THAT HOWEVER MINIMALLY THERE HAS BEEN A RELIGIOUS DISPOSITION ALWAYS. THERE IS A WHOLE DISCUSSION OUT THERE IN THE VARIOUS SCIENCES ABOUT THE EVOLUTION OF MORALITY, THE EVOLUTIONS OF MORAL SENSE, WHETHER IT IS ADDED TO OUR BRUTAL ANIMAL INSTINCTS BY A VENEER OF CULTURE OR WHETHER WE INHERITED THAT SOMEHOW FROM OUR MOST DISTANT PRIMATE ANCESTORS, OR WHETHER WE ARE BORN WITH AN INNATE SENSE OF RIGHT AND WRONG, ALL OF THAT IS THEOLOGICALLY INTERESTING. AND WHAT I DID IN MY WORK RECENTLY IS I TIED IT QUITE SPECIFICALLY TO THE FAMOUS VERSE IN THE OLD TESTAMENT, YOU KNOW, WHERE GOD SAYS, NOW THESE HUMANS HAVE BECOME LIKE ONE OF US BY KNOWING GOOD AND EVIL - AND THAT, TO ME, IS A DEFINING MOMENT FOR HUMAN CONSCIOUSNESS AND FOR NOT ONLY NARROWLY THINKING ABOUT RIGHT AND WRONG BUT HAVING A KIND OF METAPHYSICAL AWARENESS THAT THERE MIGHT BE MORE TO LIFE THAN WHAT WE HAVE HERE, AND WHY RELIGIONS HAVE ALWAYS BEEN PART OF OUR HUMAN MAKE UP. >WELL, ONE CAN LOOK AT THE CULTURAL DEVELOPMENT OVER TENS OF THOUSANDS OF YEARS OF HUMAN HISTORY AND CAN SEE A PROGRESSION, BEGINNING WITH SOME VERY SHAMANISTIC PROTORELIGIOUS ACTIVITIES AND THEN DEVELOPING, DOESN'T THIS HISTORY MITIGATE AGAINST SOME REAL THEOLOGICAL TRUTH TO IT, BUT RATHER GIVES AN EVOLUTIONARY PSYCHOLOGY TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF RELIGIOUS BELIEF AND THEREFORE HUMAN CONSCIOUSNESS IS NOTHING SPECIAL? >>WELL, YOU KNOW, I WOULD - I WOULD ARGUE THE OPPOSITE - I WOULD FIND IT ASTOUNDING IF IN THE NATURAL EVOLUTION OF HUMAN HISTORY, AND ESPECIALLY HUMAN PREHISTORY, SUDDENLY THERE WAS THIS SUPERNATURAL PERSONAL GOD PRESENT THAT KIND OF ORGANIZED EVERYTHING. I'M SURE THAT WOULD BE DEEPLY UNNATURAL. I THINK THERE IS A FASCINATING EVOLUTION TO RELIGION AND RELIGIOUS DISPOSITIONS, TOO. WHAT I WOULD RESIST IS THE IDEA THAT SCIENCE HAS PROVEN ONCE AND FOR ALL THAT RELIGION OR RELIGIOUS DISPOSITION IS THE KIND OF PRIMITIVE LEFT OVER FROM THE PAST. WHY WOULD WE DISCRIMINATE AGAINST A RELIGIOUS DISPOSITION WHEN OUR HUMAN CONSCIOUSNESS IS SO COMPLEX? >THE ARGUMENT WOULD BE IS THAT HUMAN CONSCIOUSNESS, BECAUSE OF IT'S SELF AWARENESS, PRODUCES THIS DESIRE FOR RELIGION BUT THAT THE RELIGION IS AN ARTIFACT OF CONSCIOUSNESS, AS OPPOSED TO THE THEOLOGICAL IDEA THAT RELIGION IS THE PURPOSE OF CONSCIOUSNESS. ONE, IT'S THE ARTIFACT, THE OTHER IT'S THE PURPOSE. >>I KNOW THOSE ARGUMENTS WELL, BUT I ALSO BELIEVE THAT THOSE ARGUMENTS CANNOT BE MADE CONCLUSIVELY IN TERMS OF SAY, EVOLUTIONARY PSYCHOLOGY OR NEUROSCIENCE. ONLY IN THE END, IT'S A DEEP COMMITMENT THAT EVEN IF, IN TERMS OF MY OWN CONSCIOUSNESS I HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE WAY THAT THIS ARTIFACT HAS BEEN CREATED IN THE HISTORY OF HUMAN KIND AND ALSO FOR ME, THERE MAY BE MORE BEHIND THIS. I WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO TELL YOU, SAY, AS A NEUROSCIENTIST, THAT OH, YOU KNOW, I HAVE NEWS FOR YOU - GOD CREATED THIS CONSCIOUSNESS WITH A SPECIAL PURPOSE. BUT I CAN SAY THAT WHAT I SEE IN THE HISTORY OF OUR SPECIES, AND WHAT NEUROSCIENCE, COGNITIVE SCIENCE, PALEOANTHROPOLOGY, EVOLUTIONARY ANTHROPOLOGY, IS EXPLAINING TO US BY THE DAY IN AN EXCITING WAY, WHAT I SEE THERE, I FIND CONSTANT WITH OR CONVERGENT WITH, AS A THEOLOGIAN, I BELIEVE THAT GOD HAS THIS PURPOSE FOR THIS SPECIES. BUT I COULD NEVER ENFORCE THAT OR BLUR THAT WITH SCIENTIFIC LINES. BUT CERTAINLY THE RICHER NOTION OF CONSCIOUSNESS FROM A THEOLOGICAL POINT FOR ME, NOW GIVES A CERTAIN KIND OF PURPOSE TO WHO WE ARE. >SO, IS HUMAN CONSCIOUSNESS ANYTHING SPECIAL? I BEST BE CAREFUL - I FEAR HOPE MASQUERADING AS BELIEF. CONSIDER FIVE EXPLANATIONS OF CONSCIOUSNESS. NEUROBIOLOGY - CONSCIOUSNESS COMES ENTIRELY FROM BRAIN AND BECAUSE HUMAN BRAIN IS MORE DEVELOPED THAN ANIMAL BRAIN, HUMAN CONSCIOUSNESS IS MORE AWARE THAN ANIMAL CONSCIOUSNESS. EVOLUTION - HUMAN CONSCIOUSNESS DEVELOPED GRADUALLY, ACCIDENTALLY, PERHAPS FACILITATING SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST, PERHAPS AS FORTUITOUS BY-PRODUCT. ANTHROPOLOGY - HUMAN CONSCIOUSNESS EMERGED PROGRESSIVELY, A PRODUCT OF CULTURAL DEVELOPMENT. THEOLOGY - GOD CREATED HUMAN CONSCIOUSNESS SO THAT HUMAN BEINGS COULD BE SELF-CONSCIOUS CREATURES TO HAVE PERSONAL RELATIONSHIPS WITH GOD. MYSTICISM - COSMIC CONSCIOUSNESS IS THE GROUND OF ALL BEING, THE WELLSPRING FROM WHICH ALL THAT EXISTS FLOWS, AND HUMAN CONSCIOUSNESS IS BUT A SPECK OF COSMIC CONSCIOUSNESS. SOME SAY THAT WHILE HUMAN CONSCIOUSNESS IS NOTHING SPECIAL, WHAT WE MAKE OF IT CAN BE SPECIAL, BUT NEVER TRANSCENDENT, BECAUSE CONSCIOUSNESS HAS NO GREAT MEANING, NO GRAND PURPOSE. I DISAGREE. I SAY CONSCIOUSNESS IS DEEPLY CONSEQUENTIAL. I HAVE NO PROOF, BUT THAT'S MY BET, GETTING CLOSER TO TRUTH.
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Channel: Closer To Truth
Views: 71,719
Rating: undefined out of 5
Keywords: closer to truth, robert lawrence kuhn, J. Wentzel van Huyssteen, Is Human Consciousness Special, Marvin Minsky, Marilyn Schlitz, J. van Huyssteen, Colin McGinn, Roger Walsh, van Huyssteen, my consciousness, consciousness is just my brain, my brain, cosmic consciousness, consciousness, brain vs mind, hard problem of consciousness, closer to truth full episodes, mysticism consciousness, theology consciousness
Id: 04evNPYg9TI
Channel Id: undefined
Length: 26min 46sec (1606 seconds)
Published: Wed Oct 21 2020
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